I'm a refrigeration engineer in Ireland. R22 has a GWP(global warming potential ) of 1810 Kg of CO2 per Kg of gas. Wheras R290 (propane) has a GWP of 3 and no ozone depleting potential. I would recommend using refrigeration grade R290 as it is pure and will not cause the oil to become acidic , which will cause leaks and attack the electrical windings in the compressor. Your explanation of superheat was a little confusing. Superheat is best described as amount by which the temperature of the gas is above the evaporating temperature of the gas at a particular pressure. If the gas leaving the evaporator is at 1.0 Bar , it's evaporating temperature is approximately -10.0°C and if the temperature of the gas at the same position is measured at +2.0°C , then the superheat is 12°C . Ideal superheat is generally accepted as being between 4°C and 12°C , but with propane it's 8-12 °C as it's slow to evaporate.
Interesting to see a homebuilt unit. I work a lot with heatpumps, and depending on if you're heating or cooling you can get some crazy high efficiencies. one of my units has a rating of 14 HSPF which is insane!
Happy to see you back, love this idea and system. I’ve played with similar concepts using propane, It’s easy to get it it works surprisingly well as a refrigerant if the system is built for it. What I find great about propane is the fact that the low and high pressure are so much lower that the new refrigerants. Less pressure, less chances of leaks.
It's amazing to see some material demystifying water-to-water heat pumps, these devices are so prohibitively pricey that they make ground (or pond) pumps very unattractive. Your approach with plate heat exchangers is very unconventional and I'm loving it.
Keep on making dude! I've been searching the internet for ways to DIY a heat pump and there isn't much information out there. This is great! Keep making videos dude!
I'm really impressed that you used propane for the refrigerant gas. We just had a reverse cycle air conditioner taken out while doing some building renovations. The unit previously had R32 (which was removed and destroyed correctly) & our refrigeration mechanic put a propane mix in.
In one video with the same topic, the person used propan as well. He said, that the propan for bbq use is added with sulphuric stuff to make it smelly. This sulfuric stuff reacts with the oil in your compressor and you get damage over the time and unusable oil. He removed the sulfuric stuff by transfering the propan through oil before using it in his system. Perhaps that is something to consider.
@@ElectroTree01 Most Refrigerators until after the invention of Freon in the 30's used sulphur dioxide as the refridgerant! I mixed up hydrogen sulphide and sulphur dioxide so you're right.
When i build my last heatpump, I used compressor running amps to meter in the charge, it worked very well. I am looking foreward to the performance data on this system. Keep up the good work !
Nice video. I saw the AC Service Tech channel listed in your video description. It is a great resource for learning about HVAC. He recently did a video on electronic expansion valves. You might want to investigate using one of those instead of using a a thermal expansion valve.
This is very cool! I am an HVAC designer but I would love to make my own system from scratch and experiment with different thermal storage methods.. it would be very fun to design something that can store waste heat to be used later on. great job! Cheers from Canada 🇨🇦
Hello, thank you very much for the great video. I would like to use a conventional, powerful inverter air conditioner from Midea for heating via heat exchanger as in the video. I want to heat the water in the heater. Everything works, but I don't have a control for the Midea outdoor unit, which simulates and controls the indoor unit. Does anyone know a device that can be purchased? What protocols does Midea use on the BUS cable? I am grateful for any hint.
You could get slightly purer propane by putting the bottle in a freezer first. The main contaminant of propane is butane. Butane has a boiling point of -1c while propane is -42c, so the colder the bottle the higher the proportion of propane. Looks good tho, good work! I'd like to do something similar one day.
I have a home made heat pump that heats my house - ground source - hot water - underfloor heating Its a LOT less complex than that!! Compressor, Two heat exchangers and the evaporator
His only looks complex because he's added guages and stop valves. Plus the option of running in reverse for cooling. You're right. If you use it only as a heat source, it can be really simple.
kudos for daring to experiment with heatpumps, and being responsible enough to do it with propane to minimise environmental risk. Just please be sure to work well away from occupied dwellings.
When you order your txv, make sure to order one with the proper refrigerant in the bulb. You want it to develop gas pressure on the diaphragm that matches the characteristics of the refrigerant in the line you are sensing. Commercial "fuel" propane is a mix of several gassed, including propane. The only thing they really guarantee is the BTUs per cubic foot equals what you would get if you were burning pure propane. It would be better to get your propane from a refrigerant supplier. You should also look into mixtures of iso-propane and other gasses like iso-butane. There is a concept called glide that can improve your volumetric performance of your system. Looks like a lot if fun. It is interesting to see regulatory agencies begin to rethink refrigerant uses in light of the GHG problems. There are new regulations that allow for the use of flammable gasses, if the volume of gas is under some threshold. You might want to box in your refrigerant loop, and put a flammable gas sensor inside. A "pump down" valving system, can then sequester the gas in the receiver/drier, shut the inlet valve to the receiver/drier, trapping the refrigerant, before it reaches the lower explosive limit. Turn the compressor off and close the valve, when the pressure on the suction side reaches 0.0. All the gas will be safely in the receiver. Use diaphragm type solenoid valves. There are no seals to leak. You can get shell and tube heat exchangers with two output paths.. one glycol and one water. Personally, I'd run glycol and water in the "house" loop all the time. Then I'd run glycol and water mixture to another ground water heat exchanger. Instead of valving refrigerant, valve the glycol side of the heat exchanger. If you want heat as your product, pump the condenser side to the house. If you want cool, pump the evap side to the house.. So long as you maintain flow, the ground water side won't freeze. When you shut it down, make sure the water runs for long enough to evap all the liquid, so it doesn't freeze in the heat exchanger.
Adding to my earlier comment, If you have pets, glycol is toxic, and has a sweet taste. Pets will lap it up. Organ failure isn't a nice way to go. Get a non-toxic antifreeze.
Nice explanation of your project, funny that I have almost exactly the same project. My project was also built in the basement. I have floor heating in the barn that I keep warm with my heat pump. My barn is insulated to the best of my ability to have as little loss as possible. I have been running on my geothermal source for 4 weeks now. income temperature 8 degrees and outgoing my source IN 6.5 degrees. success continues
Excellent! Thanks for sharing your system is exactly what I want to build except Ideally I want to use co2 instead of propane, not sure if I can deal with the much higher pressures though. If you have any thoughts on that I would love to hear them. Cheers, Kurt
I belive the biggest thing is that your compressor will have to be designed and built for thousands of lbs of pressure that a co2 system will need rather than the hundres for r22 systems. Small copper pipes will likly handle co2 pressure. But I don't know about valves guages. Certainly there is more to it but I'm not competent to give any rea)y good advice.
Nice project! Would've recommended you have the refrigeration cycle on display when explaining the different states of the propane as you were explaining how it works. Can't wait to see more of this project.
Thanks! Yes, I tried to do that with the animation in the photo I made, but I agree that what you propose would have worked better. Thanks for the tip!
Measuring the superheat with just temperatures can be problematic. If there is a notable pressure drop in the evaporator it will be off quite a bit. The usual way will be measuring the suction pressure and temperature and calculate it with a saturation table. You really want the superheat as small as possible for best performance, TXVs usually will go for 5K as default. The plate heat exchangers look too small for 4kW. My Rule of thumb is 0,15m²/kW.
@@velianlodestone1249 Well it all depends on the temperature difference. With enough difference you can push 100kW through one small heat exchanger. One side at +200°C the other at -200 and off you go. But this won't be a efficient heat pump then.
Hvac guy but if you plan on doing a house build a scroll compressor is more forgiving about liquid slugs....more then likely your tin can (hermetical sealed reciprocating compressor) is not a good match. make sure the oil matches the ref and that the o ring seals match the oil. also propane is a excellent low temp and should move a lower density volume of gas so you want a compressor to match it. it is better to pull a low vacuum to ensure you don't have nitrogen trapped as you will have high head and a flooded condenser that will cause the moisture to overheat and create acid from your oil
Hey! Ik ben zelf ingenieur en sinds kort bezig met warmtepompen. STEK en alles in de pocket, en was van plan iets soortgelijks te doen! Ik zie dat je vrij goedkope platenwisselaars hebt gebruikt, dat was ik ook van plan. Maar hoe koppel je die draad aan het (vermoedelijk) SAE koper? Zie een aantal koppelstukken ertussen. Mooie video en uitleg, ik blijf kijken :). Mocht je eens willen sparren lijkt me dat wel leuk!
I am looking for a step-by-step guide to build a heat pump, can you recommend me one? I know and understand how it works, but don't have any experience
Nice work! Do you have an idea what the cop would be at different outside temperatures and on the inside, say, 35 degrees Celsius water out of the condensor?
@@FiveSixEP It took a long time to heat. at least 10-15 minutes. I like instant heat so i put a 250w heat lamp over the kitchen table. toasty warm, i love it. I suggest you try a delay timer to let it heat up before turning on the fan, if you don't mind the delay. Even an expensive HP will use a timer as nobody likes a cold breeze at start.
Are you Dutch? Saw some "gamma" materials in your " polished satelite disc solar beam machine". Interesting thing you do with bundled sun rays...extra heat centered in a small area...🙂👍 Maybe a thing to not underestimate is the amount of generated heat could be (sometimes) become as high that it might cause things to ignite/put on fire when it reaches wood or dry grass etc. So let us all be cautious about that.. But like u said,interesting thing you did. Shall add it in my list to try to build sun power heating system for indoors because of the ridiculous gas prices etc.. Did allready pay 917 euro a month for almost a half year...
Hi! Thank you for the awesome video! The thing I have been floating a very similar idea for my summer home which has rather poor insulating properties. Since it's a summer home, temperatures inside the house in the winter need not to be very high: ~5-10C to keep the pipes from freezing. Buying a full system would be prohibitively expensive so I was thinking of making my own system. Do you have any resources you could recommend me (besides the website mentioned in the video)? I would love to hear how the system has worked for you in real life and what COP have you been able to achieve in actual use.
If I could understand any of that I was say "that is brilliant, if this works then you should setup a company to reproduce this system for other people, likely there is big money to be made here"
I'd like to know why you decided to use 4x plate heat exchangers instead of a 'switchover' valve that are used in reverse cycle AC's (don't know the correct name of the valve but it's a simple device)
@@TheDIYScienceGuy yes this is clear however with a reversing valve (tnx Velian) you would only need 2 heat exchangers and a bunch less valves and manual switching effort to ...reverse... the cycle. Whilst maintaining the complete separation of media.
@@TheDIYScienceGuy the principle is that there are no more hot and cold sides, both are both, since you can reverse the flow of the refrigerant. So you just have a ground water side and an anti freeze side. Or do you want to transfer energy from ground water to ground water, or from antifreeze to antifreeze? Because yes then you need 4.
Goed gezien! Nee dat is geen goed idee heb ik gemerkt maar het is in de experimentele face wel handig omdat je het makelijk los kunt halen. Later ga ik alles lijmen/solderen.
The impact of R-22 as a refrigerant, as well as R-12, on the ozone layer is negligible. The problem is rooted in R-12's low price and overproduction, which resulted in its usage as a propellant in all possible cases with disposable pressurized cans (deodorants, spray paints, dusters, air fresheners, etc.).
i agree. r22 and even more so, og r12 have like 3-4x the volumetric efficiency as modern refrigerants. freon also runs at an exponentially lower head pressure. the effect of these 2 factors means the COP for older refrigerants was much higher, and the wear/tear and lifespan of older compressors was significantly longer. just like turbo charging your engine, higher pressures means way faster wear n tear with more noise/vibration/harshness issues. newer compressors crap out after a few years, and pose an explosion risk, while gobbeling up more power for the same amount of work. all i know right now is there are many signs that the ozone layer is recovering, and there are many signs that co2 is continuing to rise.
@@smolpener7430 that was my point. And I 100% agree. Nevermind the law. The law only matters if you get caught anyway. Don’t vent refrigerant to atmosphere to begin with regardless of its legally ok or not.
US Federal Government requires EPA 608 certification for anyone who maintains, services, repairs, or disposes of equipment that contains refrigerants. There is a robust set of laws and consequences for improperly handling refrigerants in the US.
I have a split unit, I am often asked can I use it to heat a room in the winter? But the answer was no, it can only be used for cooling in the summer, otherwise it breaks down, so is this correct? Please answer me.
@@TheDIYScienceGuy Thanks for your reply I don't know if it's reversible or not, It ( TOSOT ) split that has a remote control and I can replace between heating mode and cooling mode. However when I asked some technicians, they told me the split ( in general ) can be damaged.
If you can switch to heating with your remote, that means you can heat in winter. But you should read about it in your AC manual-some pumps become inefficient in low temperatures, they may not have defrost capabilities (when it is below 0 Celsius, outside coils cover with ice from water vapour in the air).
Thanks! These are the ones I bought: www.wiltec.de/nl/Warmtewisselaar-RVS-10-platen-max.-22-kW-platenwarmtewisselaar/50671?affiliateCode=google_shopping&affiliateCode=google_shopping&campaignid=19196052844&gclid=Cj0KCQiAv8SsBhC7ARIsALIkVT2MULKqxz0UZUIlSPlbYFLVgSp0UBZz4vMJ5o5QRwCjAd6-Zr-m34EaAnc5EALw_wcB hope it helps!
Propane flamibility is concerning enough, but anhydrous ammonia is both flammable and toxic enough that a leak may potentually kill you in seconds. To make a point, Sadly, I remember being shown a video of a sherif who came up on a leak and he was out in seconds, and shortly afterwards stopped breathing. Anhydrous ammonia is potentially very dangerous.
I have a diagram on Facebook: facebook.com/234679430309932/posts/pfbid0zkfNAvgzUFJKLaCM4KE457xyGV7rhU7NqZDama54mQMgEzXyyejB6LAApa6TS8CVl/?sfnsn=mo hope it helps!
Here are some beans for you: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_expansion_valve#:~:text=A%20thermal%20expansion%20valve%20is,metering%20device%20and%20an%20evaporator.
I would really like to be able to build my own split system. They are not complicated at all but there is no information on how big of a evaporator or condenser you should use. Theirs just nothing on the internet to give any direction. Would be freaking awesome to build your own and control it with an Arduino loaded monitoring sensors. Would be easy if there were some standards to reference
@@TheDIYScienceGuy Hey! Do you know of any reading material? I've built small ones before and I've leaned to charge window units. I just want to know if there are any calculations I can do to size coils on a given tonnage. Thank you! I need to re watch this.
you shouldnt need any cooling on the compressor, you want just enough excess refrigerant that some cool gas makes it back to the compressor to cool it without enough excess to have a hydraulic lock up
Yes, in the tests I did I noticed that overheating of the compressor wasn't really an issue. What you described was also what I thought what was going on. Thanks a lot for the confirmation! 👌
@@TheDIYScienceGuy i understand metric system usefulness. But I prefer to use units I'm familiar with. I understand kidding around, but if it's denegrading (even in jest), that's at risk of alienating people. It's up to you to decide if that helps what is important to you. 😊 by all means, espose the benifits of metric, but trying to shame people away from imperial units tends to have the opposite effect on those who use it.
As a novice in this field I congratulate you on your build. This video confirms my opinion that to install a heat-pump into my home will provide a nightmare of complexity that will require endless expensive maintenance over the years. Whereas I can personally trouble-shoot my current Central heating system, there is no way i could deal with the endless pipes, valves and sensors depicted here. So, apart from the known inadequacy of heat-pump home heating I think this system is far to complex to be practical as a reliable and cost effective installation in my abode.
You should consider that the restriction with the capilar tube wastes energy and might be replaced by a small pump converter tu a turbine ❤ maybe running the air fan
In the 70's We Were Putting That Crap In Spray cans! We Released Dozens of Car AC Systems Into The Air Every Summer! The Hole In The OZONE Has Recovered!! The Biggest Hole We Blew In The Ozone Was With Space Flight!
The world wide fckw release was much worse than any space flight. Those molecules of the ocon destroying kind stay up there for years and reduced O3 into O2. O3 saves ous from UV light, O2 doesn't.
Armchair comment from someone who hasn't even asked or read why you are building it! Pah! So I like what I see, but are there challenges ahead with brittle plastic and condensation or icing? I would love to assist with Temp and Pressure sensing... Do you have Arduino skills? Where are you based? I am in UK
Well, most of those things I'll have to figure out, but yes, I have experience with Arduino, so I'm going to use that to control it. I'm in the Netherlands. All help is welcome! 👌
I like the inferior style... Could've worded it better. When it's 100 degrees outside we know it's hot. When it's 0 it's cold. When measuring distance I like feet and inches. They have style or something nice. It is more complex but it's not hard to learn. Not inferior but different. Maybe for fun build something using feet and inches? Less than an inch is fun and once you figure it out it's like you know some code.
![🔴 ฟุตบอลแชมป์กีฬา 7HD แชมเปียน คัพ 2024 [รอบรองชนะเลิศ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zPm8ClLVhoE/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm a refrigeration engineer in Ireland. R22 has a GWP(global warming potential ) of 1810 Kg of CO2 per Kg of gas. Wheras R290 (propane) has a GWP of 3 and no ozone depleting potential. I would recommend using refrigeration grade R290 as it is pure and will not cause the oil to become acidic , which will cause leaks and attack the electrical windings in the compressor.
Your explanation of superheat was a little confusing. Superheat is best described as amount by which the temperature of the gas is above the evaporating temperature of the gas at a particular pressure. If the gas leaving the evaporator is at 1.0 Bar , it's evaporating temperature is approximately -10.0°C and if the temperature of the gas at the same position is measured at +2.0°C , then the superheat is 12°C . Ideal superheat is generally accepted as being between 4°C and 12°C , but with propane it's 8-12 °C as it's slow to evaporate.
Interesting video in a nice workshop. Good to see you making new videos again. Good luck with all your new discoveries.
Interesting to see a homebuilt unit. I work a lot with heatpumps, and depending on if you're heating or cooling you can get some crazy high efficiencies. one of my units has a rating of 14 HSPF which is insane!
Happy to see you back, love this idea and system. I’ve played with similar concepts using propane, It’s easy to get it it works surprisingly well as a refrigerant if the system is built for it. What I find great about propane is the fact that the low and high pressure are so much lower that the new refrigerants. Less pressure, less chances of leaks.
It's amazing to see some material demystifying water-to-water heat pumps, these devices are so prohibitively pricey that they make ground (or pond) pumps very unattractive. Your approach with plate heat exchangers is very unconventional and I'm loving it.
Keep on making dude! I've been searching the internet for ways to DIY a heat pump and there isn't much information out there. This is great! Keep making videos dude!
I'm really impressed that you used propane for the refrigerant gas.
We just had a reverse cycle air conditioner taken out while doing some building renovations.
The unit previously had R32 (which was removed and destroyed correctly) & our refrigeration mechanic put a propane mix in.
In one video with the same topic, the person used propan as well. He said, that the propan for bbq use is added with sulphuric stuff to make it smelly. This sulfuric stuff reacts with the oil in your compressor and you get damage over the time and unusable oil. He removed the sulfuric stuff by transfering the propan through oil before using it in his system. Perhaps that is something to consider.
They dont yse sulphuric acid, they use a highly stinky substance in just a few hundred ppm. I think it's called Methyl Mercaptan
It’s ethanethiol but it does have one sulfur atom
Basically ethylene+hydrogen sulfide
@@ElectroTree01 somewhat ironically, both of those are refridgerants.
@@mikafoxx2717 maybe not hydrogen sulfide(although it is possible) because some of its qualities.
But ethylene/ethene/r1150 is
@@ElectroTree01 Most Refrigerators until after the invention of Freon in the 30's used sulphur dioxide as the refridgerant! I mixed up hydrogen sulphide and sulphur dioxide so you're right.
I love super cool complicated looking tubes and wires but then I am a chemical engineer...Great job my friend.
When i build my last heatpump, I used compressor running amps to meter in the charge, it worked very well.
I am looking foreward to the performance data on this system. Keep up the good work !
Nice video. I saw the AC Service Tech channel listed in your video description. It is a great resource for learning about HVAC. He recently did a video on electronic expansion valves. You might want to investigate using one of those instead of using a a thermal expansion valve.
This is very cool! I am an HVAC designer but I would love to make my own system from scratch and experiment with different thermal storage methods.. it would be very fun to design something that can store waste heat to be used later on. great job! Cheers from Canada 🇨🇦
I was so happy to see a video from you again
An absolute awesome set up and pleasure to watch. Thankyou for the insight to your brilliant mind!!!!!!
Hello, thank you very much for the great video. I would like to use a conventional, powerful inverter air conditioner from Midea for heating via heat exchanger as in the video. I want to heat the water in the heater. Everything works, but I don't have a control for the Midea outdoor unit, which simulates and controls the indoor unit. Does anyone know a device that can be purchased? What protocols does Midea use on the BUS cable? I am grateful for any hint.
You could get slightly purer propane by putting the bottle in a freezer first. The main contaminant of propane is butane. Butane has a boiling point of -1c while propane is -42c, so the colder the bottle the higher the proportion of propane. Looks good tho, good work! I'd like to do something similar one day.
If there is any sulpher based oderants, bubbling through a sodium hydroxide solution will remove it.
Don't forget to include refrigerant receiver or even sight glass when upgrading to TXV ☺️
I have a home made heat pump that heats my house - ground source - hot water - underfloor heating
Its a LOT less complex than that!!
Compressor, Two heat exchangers and the evaporator
His only looks complex because he's added guages and stop valves. Plus the option of running in reverse for cooling.
You're right. If you use it only as a heat source, it can be really simple.
kudos for daring to experiment with heatpumps, and being responsible enough to do it with propane to minimise environmental risk. Just please be sure to work well away from occupied dwellings.
When you order your txv, make sure to order one with the proper refrigerant in the bulb. You want it to develop gas pressure on the diaphragm that matches the characteristics of the refrigerant in the line you are sensing.
Commercial "fuel" propane is a mix of several gassed, including propane. The only thing they really guarantee is the BTUs per cubic foot equals what you would get if you were burning pure propane.
It would be better to get your propane from a refrigerant supplier.
You should also look into mixtures of iso-propane and other gasses like iso-butane.
There is a concept called glide that can improve your volumetric performance of your system.
Looks like a lot if fun.
It is interesting to see regulatory agencies begin to rethink refrigerant uses in light of the GHG problems.
There are new regulations that allow for the use of flammable gasses, if the volume of gas is under some threshold.
You might want to box in your refrigerant loop, and put a flammable gas sensor inside.
A "pump down" valving system, can then sequester the gas in the receiver/drier, shut the inlet valve to the receiver/drier, trapping the refrigerant, before it reaches the lower explosive limit. Turn the compressor off and close the valve, when the pressure on the suction side reaches 0.0.
All the gas will be safely in the receiver.
Use diaphragm type solenoid valves. There are no seals to leak.
You can get shell and tube heat exchangers with two output paths.. one glycol and one water.
Personally, I'd run glycol and water in the "house" loop all the time.
Then I'd run glycol and water mixture to another ground water heat exchanger.
Instead of valving refrigerant, valve the glycol side of the heat exchanger.
If you want heat as your product, pump the condenser side to the house.
If you want cool, pump the evap side to the house..
So long as you maintain flow, the ground water side won't freeze.
When you shut it down, make sure the water runs for long enough to evap all the liquid, so it doesn't freeze in the heat exchanger.
Adding to my earlier comment, If you have pets, glycol is toxic, and has a sweet taste. Pets will lap it up. Organ failure isn't a nice way to go. Get a non-toxic antifreeze.
Can you provide a diagram to help improve this wonderful design with what you have suggested. Thanks in advance
Thanks! I will include that in the next video.
some good points in there 👍🏻🇬🇧
You are a genius! I will build something like this too once I have my own home.
Nice explanation of your project, funny that I have almost exactly the same project. My project was also built in the basement. I have floor heating in the barn that I keep warm with my heat pump. My barn is insulated to the best of my ability to have as little loss as possible. I have been running on my geothermal source for 4 weeks now. income temperature 8 degrees and outgoing my source IN 6.5 degrees. success continues
I recommend to insulate all the bare pipes of your central heating - and when finished, also in the heatpump.
Well done
Excellent! Thanks for sharing your system is exactly what I want to build except Ideally I want to use co2 instead of propane, not sure if I can deal with the much higher pressures though. If you have any thoughts on that I would love to hear them.
Cheers, Kurt
I belive the biggest thing is that your compressor will have to be designed and built for thousands of lbs of pressure that a co2 system will need rather than the hundres for r22 systems. Small copper pipes will likly handle co2 pressure. But I don't know about valves guages. Certainly there is more to it but I'm not competent to give any rea)y good advice.
Nice to see you around again. Thanks for the video impressive! Cheers!
Nice project! Would've recommended you have the refrigeration cycle on display when explaining the different states of the propane as you were explaining how it works. Can't wait to see more of this project.
Thanks! Yes, I tried to do that with the animation in the photo I made, but I agree that what you propose would have worked better. Thanks for the tip!
Very well done👍👍 Impressive.
nice
Measuring the superheat with just temperatures can be problematic.
If there is a notable pressure drop in the evaporator it will be off quite a bit.
The usual way will be measuring the suction pressure and temperature and calculate it with a saturation table.
You really want the superheat as small as possible for best performance, TXVs usually will go for 5K as default.
The plate heat exchangers look too small for 4kW. My Rule of thumb is 0,15m²/kW.
I would be very curious to know if they are capable of producing 4kW,
@@velianlodestone1249 Well it all depends on the temperature difference. With enough difference you can push 100kW through one small heat exchanger.
One side at +200°C the other at -200 and off you go.
But this won't be a efficient heat pump then.
I've looked them up, and they are capable of 22KW.
@@pw6048 useless number unless you define the temperature difference and media too.
Woe, that was a lot of information!
Good info for sure. Just a lot to understand in one video
Hvac guy but if you plan on doing a house build a scroll compressor is more forgiving about liquid slugs....more then likely your tin can (hermetical sealed reciprocating compressor) is not a good match. make sure the oil matches the ref and that the o ring seals match the oil. also propane is a excellent low temp and should move a lower density volume of gas so you want a compressor to match it. it is better to pull a low vacuum to ensure you don't have nitrogen trapped as you will have high head and a flooded condenser that will cause the moisture to overheat and create acid from your oil
Maybe the tincan is a good match. Propane is exacty the same as R290. So if this compressor is a R290 compressor, he's all good.
@Thediyscienceguy What heat exchangers did you use?
Sir do you have a build circuit with list of parts, I'm very interested in building my own heat pump
In this video, I show al the parts and a diagram: th-cam.com/video/pDb-SPuidZo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=MGh13tnbkyTDyIKX hope you like it!
WoW! Impresive! Really nice setup :) What is the cost and how many hours did you spent at the job?
Hey! Ik ben zelf ingenieur en sinds kort bezig met warmtepompen. STEK en alles in de pocket, en was van plan iets soortgelijks te doen! Ik zie dat je vrij goedkope platenwisselaars hebt gebruikt, dat was ik ook van plan. Maar hoe koppel je die draad aan het (vermoedelijk) SAE koper? Zie een aantal koppelstukken ertussen.
Mooie video en uitleg, ik blijf kijken :). Mocht je eens willen sparren lijkt me dat wel leuk!
During summer you can heat your bath water and cool your house using the same electricity and save!!!!!
Yes, that is the idea 😃
I am looking for a step-by-step guide to build a heat pump, can you recommend me one? I know and understand how it works, but don't have any experience
Just start making a small one and build out from there. I have no other information for you, sorry.
Hey, can you make an Video where you build an mini Vortex Gas Cannon?
hi. what the the presure on the heat exchangers? how it seems it need what capable to run at 30bar. what type u use?
Ik moet egt een soort gelijk systeem maaken voor aan boord en dan de rivier gebruiken om mijn cv te verwarmen
Doe het nu met boilers
Nice work! Do you have an idea what the cop would be at different outside temperatures and on the inside, say, 35 degrees Celsius water out of the condensor?
No, not yet, that has to be determined in the next video.
i made a HP with an old window ac. i just turned it around so the evaporator is outside and the condenser is inside.
How did it work? I did the same and it's barely blowing any heat at 50f
@@FiveSixEP It took a long time to heat. at least 10-15 minutes. I like instant heat so i put a 250w heat lamp over the kitchen table. toasty warm, i love it.
I suggest you try a delay timer to let it heat up before turning on the fan, if you don't mind the delay. Even an expensive HP will use a timer as nobody likes a cold breeze at start.
Are you Dutch?
Saw some "gamma" materials in your " polished satelite disc solar beam machine".
Interesting thing you do with bundled sun rays...extra heat centered in a small area...🙂👍
Maybe a thing to not underestimate is the amount of generated heat could be (sometimes) become as high that it might cause things to ignite/put on fire when it reaches wood or dry grass etc.
So let us all be cautious about that..
But like u said,interesting thing you did.
Shall add it in my list to try to build sun power heating system for indoors because of the ridiculous gas prices etc..
Did allready pay 917 euro a month for almost a half year...
I am kind of curious doesn't capillary tube hurt efficiency over say an electronic thermal expansion valve?
You are right
Hi! Thank you for the awesome video! The thing I have been floating a very similar idea for my summer home which has rather poor insulating properties. Since it's a summer home, temperatures inside the house in the winter need not to be very high: ~5-10C to keep the pipes from freezing. Buying a full system would be prohibitively expensive so I was thinking of making my own system. Do you have any resources you could recommend me (besides the website mentioned in the video)? I would love to hear how the system has worked for you in real life and what COP have you been able to achieve in actual use.
Nice idea! The COP of my system will be determined in the next video. I have no other information than what I have shown in the video, sorry.
Sadly it will likly be that a commercially made heat pump will be cheaper, unless you get most of your parts very cheap or free.
If I could understand any of that I was say "that is brilliant, if this works then you should setup a company to reproduce this system for other people, likely there is big money to be made here"
I'd like to know why you decided to use 4x plate heat exchangers instead of a 'switchover' valve that are used in reverse cycle AC's (don't know the correct name of the valve but it's a simple device)
This is called a reversing valve, valid question 👍
As I explained 2 heat exchangers for ground water and 2 for anti freeze. This way I will never contaminate my ground water.
@@TheDIYScienceGuy yes this is clear however with a reversing valve (tnx Velian) you would only need 2 heat exchangers and a bunch less valves and manual switching effort to ...reverse... the cycle. Whilst maintaining the complete separation of media.
No it's still te same amount of heat exchangers. 2 hot side 2 cold side.
@@TheDIYScienceGuy the principle is that there are no more hot and cold sides, both are both, since you can reverse the flow of the refrigerant. So you just have a ground water side and an anti freeze side. Or do you want to transfer energy from ground water to ground water, or from antifreeze to antifreeze? Because yes then you need 4.
Maybe I failed to understand, but where will this heat pump take the heat from? :) from air-water heat exchanger or from ground water directly?
One loop is ground water - the glycol could be a air-water heat exchanger
Ik zie volgens mij Teflon tape op diverse plaatsen in het koelcircuit. Is dat wel een goed idee???
Goed gezien! Nee dat is geen goed idee heb ik gemerkt maar het is in de experimentele face wel handig omdat je het makelijk los kunt halen. Later ga ik alles lijmen/solderen.
@@TheDIYScienceGuyik dacht al dat je een Nederlander was😅 mooi ge engelst
Prachtig om jouw filmpje te zien. Ga zo door🎉
Draw up prints . Nice project
Thanks! In the next video, I will show the diagrams. But the project is still evolving, so they won't be final.
nice build
forgot to report. my heat pump and circulation pumps take total 380Watt/hour. And my barn capacity 12m3 capacity.
How is it working out?
I am planning 1 w/ an unused R22 2Ton compressor. Cheers
The impact of R-22 as a refrigerant, as well as R-12, on the ozone layer is negligible.
The problem is rooted in R-12's low price and overproduction, which resulted in its usage as a propellant in all possible cases with disposable pressurized cans (deodorants, spray paints, dusters, air fresheners, etc.).
I think you are right. But still, if you have the possibility to not vent R22, then you should not do it. So there is no excuus
i agree. r22 and even more so, og r12 have like 3-4x the volumetric efficiency as modern refrigerants. freon also runs at an exponentially lower head pressure. the effect of these 2 factors means the COP for older refrigerants was much higher, and the wear/tear and lifespan of older compressors was significantly longer. just like turbo charging your engine, higher pressures means way faster wear n tear with more noise/vibration/harshness issues.
newer compressors crap out after a few years, and pose an explosion risk, while gobbeling up more power for the same amount of work. all i know right now is there are many signs that the ozone layer is recovering, and there are many signs that co2 is continuing to rise.
I would keep an eye on those valves, if they get too cold they will leak through the stem.
Evacuating refrigerant is illegal most likely in the European Union but isn't in the USA. However this is a really nice video, other than that.
Nvm what the law is….. it’s just wrong to do everywhere.
@@Hood.Housekeeping How does licensing effect the morality of the situation? You can do it properly without a permit, and improperly with a permit.
@@smolpener7430 that was my point. And I 100% agree. Nevermind the law. The law only matters if you get caught anyway. Don’t vent refrigerant to atmosphere to begin with regardless of its legally ok or not.
@@smolpener7430 What I was referring to specifically was venting all the gas
US Federal Government requires EPA 608 certification for anyone who maintains, services, repairs, or disposes of equipment that contains refrigerants. There is a robust set of laws and consequences for improperly handling refrigerants in the US.
I have a split unit, I am often asked can I use it to heat a room in the winter? But the answer was no, it can only be used for cooling in the summer, otherwise it breaks down, so is this correct? Please answer me.
If it's not to cold outside it should work. But is your ac reversible?
@@TheDIYScienceGuy
Thanks for your reply
I don't know if it's reversible or not, It ( TOSOT ) split that has a remote control and I can replace between heating mode and cooling mode.
However when I asked some technicians, they told me the split ( in general ) can be damaged.
Ok well I don't know what they mean by that. Sorry I'm afraid I can't help you with that.
If you can switch to heating with your remote, that means you can heat in winter. But you should read about it in your AC manual-some pumps become inefficient in low temperatures, they may not have defrost capabilities (when it is below 0 Celsius, outside coils cover with ice from water vapour in the air).
Nice, just what I am looking for. Do you know of any cheap sources for heat exchangers?
Thanks! These are the ones I bought: www.wiltec.de/nl/Warmtewisselaar-RVS-10-platen-max.-22-kW-platenwarmtewisselaar/50671?affiliateCode=google_shopping&affiliateCode=google_shopping&campaignid=19196052844&gclid=Cj0KCQiAv8SsBhC7ARIsALIkVT2MULKqxz0UZUIlSPlbYFLVgSp0UBZz4vMJ5o5QRwCjAd6-Zr-m34EaAnc5EALw_wcB hope it helps!
@@TheDIYScienceGuy yes it does, many thanks!
Amazing 👏 nice working project 👏 judging by the pipework around your boiler your very much into heat pumps & plumbing
Making a heat pump using ammonia is harder or easier? It would be more efficient or not?
Harder. You can't use copper because ammonia will dissolve it. But yes, it would make it more efficient.
Propane flamibility is concerning enough, but anhydrous ammonia is both flammable and toxic enough that a leak may potentually kill you in seconds.
To make a point, Sadly, I remember being shown a video of a sherif who came up on a leak and he was out in seconds, and shortly afterwards stopped breathing. Anhydrous ammonia is potentially very dangerous.
could we get a tutorial on how to build it. and how to get it running. you could charge 100 dollers no problem.
I have a diagram on Facebook: facebook.com/234679430309932/posts/pfbid0zkfNAvgzUFJKLaCM4KE457xyGV7rhU7NqZDama54mQMgEzXyyejB6LAApa6TS8CVl/?sfnsn=mo hope it helps!
Love this:)
Spill the beans
What is a TXV
Here are some beans for you: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_expansion_valve#:~:text=A%20thermal%20expansion%20valve%20is,metering%20device%20and%20an%20evaporator.
@@TheDIYScienceGuy ...
ROFL
There R a lot of beans in that TIN...
Many Thank...
Could you confirm what copper pipe you use (hard or half hard and OD and wall thickness
Both hard and soft. Wall thickness 1mm. Wat do you mean with OD?
@@TheDIYScienceGuyI think he means Outside Diameter.
Ok thanks! OD is 15 and 8mm
I would really like to be able to build my own split system. They are not complicated at all but there is no information on how big of a evaporator or condenser you should use. Theirs just nothing on the internet to give any direction. Would be freaking awesome to build your own and control it with an Arduino loaded monitoring sensors. Would be easy if there were some standards to reference
I would advice to just build something small to get a feal for it and then scale it up to your needs. Good luck!
@@TheDIYScienceGuy Hey! Do you know of any reading material? I've built small ones before and I've leaned to charge window units. I just want to know if there are any calculations I can do to size coils on a given tonnage. Thank you! I need to re watch this.
😀
you shouldnt need any cooling on the compressor, you want just enough excess refrigerant that some cool gas makes it back to the compressor to cool it without enough excess to have a hydraulic lock up
Yes, in the tests I did I noticed that overheating of the compressor wasn't really an issue. What you described was also what I thought what was going on. Thanks a lot for the confirmation! 👌
5:50 😂😂😂😂😂
5:54 did you say imperial system or inferiorial system? 😂
Same thing, right?
@DLexEdition No. But I can laugh at a joke.
I said, inferial measurement system. 🤪
@@TheDIYScienceGuy i understand metric system usefulness. But I prefer to use units I'm familiar with. I understand kidding around, but if it's denegrading (even in jest), that's at risk of alienating people. It's up to you to decide if that helps what is important to you. 😊 by all means, espose the benifits of metric, but trying to shame people away from imperial units tends to have the opposite effect on those who use it.
It's just a joke. Nothing more.
sream engine?
All in good time, my friend, all in good time. Definitely this year!
As a novice in this field I congratulate you on your build. This video confirms my opinion that to install a heat-pump into my home will provide a nightmare of complexity that will require endless expensive maintenance over the years. Whereas I can personally trouble-shoot my current Central heating system, there is no way i could deal with the endless pipes, valves and sensors depicted here. So, apart from the known inadequacy of heat-pump home heating I think this system is far to complex to be practical as a reliable and cost effective installation in my abode.
Heat pumps (air conditioners to the rest of the world) are very reliable and realy good heaters.
I've been installing and dealing with them for years,
You should consider that the restriction with the capilar tube wastes energy and might be replaced by a small pump converter tu a turbine ❤ maybe running the air fan
Gaaf
Just use propane
In the 70's We Were Putting That Crap In Spray cans! We Released Dozens of Car AC Systems Into The Air Every Summer! The Hole In The OZONE Has Recovered!! The Biggest Hole We Blew In The Ozone Was With Space Flight!
The world wide fckw release was much worse than any space flight. Those molecules of the ocon destroying kind stay up there for years and reduced O3 into O2. O3 saves ous from UV light, O2 doesn't.
Distill waste motor in to diesel fuel...
Sorry, what do you mean?
@@TheDIYScienceGuy just what I said
Ok, so put a waste motor into a distilling apparatus and make diesel fuel out of it?
Armchair comment from someone who hasn't even asked or read why you are building it! Pah!
So I like what I see, but are there challenges ahead with brittle plastic and condensation or icing? I would love to assist with Temp and Pressure sensing... Do you have Arduino skills? Where are you based? I am in UK
Well, most of those things I'll have to figure out, but yes, I have experience with Arduino, so I'm going to use that to control it. I'm in the Netherlands. All help is welcome! 👌
I like the inferior style... Could've worded it better. When it's 100 degrees outside we know it's hot. When it's 0 it's cold. When measuring distance I like feet and inches. They have style or something nice. It is more complex but it's not hard to learn. Not inferior but different. Maybe for fun build something using feet and inches? Less than an inch is fun and once you figure it out it's like you know some code.