Heaven's Gate tanked U.A. That's why Cimino was crucified, and it led the end of a Film era when the Director was trusted with final cut. The movie is in no way bad, and is filled with amazing performances and cinematography (Vilmos Zsigmond), it's just too long in certain parts. I've always liked the movie though.
Yep. The corporations that owned the studios used Heaven's Gate to wrest control away from directors. We've been in Blockbuster Superhero Hell ever since.
It didn't lead to the end of that era alone, its just the one that stuck out. All the big directors had flops at this time then that stopped directors having control
@@guileniam True : Spielberg bombed big time with 1941, Friedkin bombed with CRUISING and DEAL OF THE CENTURY, and then John Landis truly f**ed everything up with his excesses which led to the accidental killing of Vic Morrow and 2 child actors in TWILIGHT ZONE THE MOVIE. THAT ended the era of the all-powerful directors.
I heard the final nail in Cimino's coffin was when he was the original director for Footloose, and he started to do the same things that he did on Heaven's Gate (Cimino wanted to rewrite the script, wanted to reconstruct the sets to his liking), which prompted Paramount Pictures to fire him. That incident told Hollywood that Cimino hadn't learned his lesson from Heaven's Gate.
@@KneeAches Yep, it was around the same time as Heavens Gate. Both signaled the end of the Auteur Era of Hollywood, where the director was given control of the their movies.
I don't think the film is considered the worst film ever like it's well shot and everything it's just got the label of being the film that ended the era of director lead films.
Its reputation has shifted recently but when I was growing up (late 80s/90s), Heaven's Gate frequently appeared on *worst* films of all time lists. Its commercial failure seriously impacted its critical reception for decades.
The New York Times critic Vincent Canby panned the film, calling it "something quite rare in movies these days - an unqualified disaster," comparing it to "a forced four-hour walking tour of one's own living room." Reviewing the shorter cut in the Chicago Sun-Times, Roger Ebert criticized the film's formal choices and its narrative inconsistencies and incredulities, concluding that the film was "[t]he most scandalous cinematic waste I have ever seen, and remember, I've seen Paint Your Wagon." He also heavily criticized the cinematography, calling the film one of the ugliest he'd ever seen.[44] In 1999, Time placed the film on a list of the 100 worst ideas of the 20th century.[45] Writing in The Guardian in 2008, Joe Queenan declared Heaven’s Gate the worst film made up to that time. The Verge said: "Based on 30 years of critical assessment, Heaven's Gate stands as one of the worst movies ever made. That's not an exaggeration".[47]
Heaven's Gate is a masterpiece. I think the biggest problem was the film was hastily put together when it was first released and for some unknown reason there was this godawful sepia tint added to the film. The 2012 restoration shows the cinematography in all it's glory. That being said, if you're someone who complains about the wedding scene in Deer Hunter this film is probably not for you.
Mickey Rourke also has a small part in a movie called "Fade to Black" from the same year. It's a neat little psychological horror gem that's worth checking out. The actor who plays Eddie in the Tim Curry version of "IT" is the main star.
The thing about Heavens Gate: it is NO WAY a storytelling masterpiece...but in fact ONE of the best VISUAL masterpieces ever made. No matter which style you prefer: The original 1980 sepia or the 2012 Restoration version...Vilmos Zsigmond, ASC visual storytelling gravitated you into that time period. Almost as astonishing as Néstor Almendros' work. 1980 really had a great year of visual breathtaking films like Raging Bull and The Elephant Man. A visual experience I WILL never forget. RIP Michael Cimino.
The reason it was called the worst film is because the hidden history we largely don't know. This film cost other filmmakers an opportunity to get their films off of the ground, due to UA pumping money into it. In addition, the fact that the production was so indulgent, and some of Cimino's behavior on set caused a stir, and its release consequentially became the target of revenge and light ritualistic sacrifice. I like the film a lot. I like The Deer Hunter more.
@@lynnturman8157 Yep. You can cling to basically and that Bill Burr said something similar based on the same information. Both things are alike, but a little different. Good job.
Or even more simple studios didnt like how the director was spending its budget and they blacklisted him, propaganda smear campaigned him with the critics. Just like they did with Sam Peckingpaw when he did Pedro Garcia
@lynnturman8157 movie news was nowhere near as prevalent as it is today. I guarantee you that only the biggest nerd was aware of that. Most people didn't want to watch a 3.5 hour western when that genre was dying. (3.5 hours!!!) In the end it made less than 4 million while being one of the most expensive movie made. That's why it's a megabomb. This would be like a Marvel movie making 20 million in total.
he didn't say that. just that Heaven's Gate was better, and that its condemnation in light of what he believes an inferior film winning awards is incongruous with his experience
And the English Patient. Which I liked better than Heavens Gate. HG is so over wrought and feels it from the get go. Also never believed Kristopherson could pull off a leading roll. Too wooden.
@@jameshays2646 Yeah, okay. I re-listened to it & he didn't call COF a bad movie. He just said it was all right but not as good as Heaven's Gate. Well, I still disagree with him. COF is a great movie, IMO.
I watched this for the first time about a year ago on Criterion channel. Always heard a lot of negative stuff about it, but i loved it. I think theres different cuts of the movie though and im sure that probably plays a factor. The version i saw was like 3 hours 40 minutes or something
I consider Babylon to be the modern equivalent of Heaven’s Gate. It came out, it bombed, and critics savaged it…..but just like Heaven’s Gate, when you actually watch it, it’s pretty fucking good.
Eh, thee criticism was deserved, it can be a pretty iffy film in parts and it does have a grimmy vibe that makes it look sleazier than it is, but it is not horrendous and it is pretty OK.
I haven't seen Heavens Gate yet but I intend to, I found Year of the Dragon to be pretty good. On another note I watched a similar infamous huge flop called Eureka with Gene Hackman and a lot of other dudes and it was one of the most epic films I've ever seen (at least the opening 30 minutes).
UA was owned by the Transamerica Corp....the box office disaster didn't make a blip to its share price...it could have continued owning UA and continued making huge profits with the Bond and Rocky franchise plus the more critically acclaimed movies!
Bill Burr has no clue as to the woes of Heaven''s Gate. It wasn't about the quality of the film; it was about the overspending of the production and the mismanagement of the film's production by inept executives.
Yeah, but it was also poorly reviewed. People said it was bad. It's definitely big and unwieldy. Unfocused, maybe. But it's closer to a masterpiece than most movies.
Yeah, the press didn't help. But a lot of the media attention at the time was focused around the money, asking "is this film good enough to warrant its unprecedented budget?" There's a fascinating book on the subject "Final Cut: Art, Money, and Ego in the Making of Heaven's Gate, the Film that Sank United Artists". Also, "Easy Riders, Raging Bulls" touch on that as well. "Heaven's Gate" was around the time of "Apocalypse Now", so they were hunting for headstrong auteurs who didn't manage their budgets to the studio's (or Coppola's accountant's) liking.
No, the reviews killed it, and they were talking about quality. My favorite was “Watching ‘Heaven’s Gate’ is like taking a forced 4-hour walking tour of your own living room.” That review was was got MGM to pull it from theaters to cut an hour in an effort to save it.
@@erbaldwin1Coppola at least had a legit excuse for budget overruns since nearly all the sets had to be rebuilt after that typhoon. Plus the smaller delay waiting for Martin Sheen to recover from his heart attack.
@@bobcobb3654 The famed Vincent Canby review from New York Times. Roger Ebert compared it to "Paint Your Wagon" as the biggest cinematic waste ever. The only critic who loved it was Kevin Thomas of the Los Angeles Times who "never felt so alone enjoying a film". Funnily enough, the LA Times were so embarrassed by Kevin's review that they got the previous veteran critic to trash the film and put that review on the front page while Kevin's was placed in an interior section of the paper.
Burr obviously saw the Director's Cut recently and he's not realizing all the hate and criticism for the film was for the theatrical cut, which was much shorter and chopped up.
Well, the initial release that got destroyed by critics was the longer cut. It only played for a week though before Cimino asked UA to withdraw it from theaters so he could recut it.
It's funny that quite a number of comments refer to the notion that this Movie ended the power of the director to choose his own final cut. Really? I think it maybe started the sub-genre - the Lucrative sub-genre - OF 'Director's Cut' versions of movies. Why sell a Movie once? No, first sell 'em a version they won't be satisfied with. Then sell'em an extended version. Then sell'em a complete version. Then sell'em the DIRECTOR'S CUT!!!!! - all silence now! Bow before the Master, you little people. ...........Oh and then sell'em the director's final cut, and then the definitive version, and then the.............
Heavens Gate was cocaine deal and money laundering operation. Almost everyone in that movie is coked out of their mind, I mean just look at Jeff Bridges in any scene he's in.
Bill's right in general, but there's more, here. I think there was a concerted effort to trash this auteurist movie, and you see it with Apocalypse Now, as well. "Francis' Folly". Blah blah. The money guys were tired of the "inmates running the asylum", that's it, and so they set their mouthpieces in the media to work, moaning about budget costs, pretentious directors, even environmental damage on occasion - whatever worked to get people contemptible of a movie before it came out. The campaign mostly worked - Heaven's Gate flopped, Apocalypse flopped (so they SAY, but I have doubts about that). Probably others I can't remember. Soon enough, the money men took it all back over and the quality of American cinema sagged considerably in the 80s, compared to the 70s. Amusingly enough, the studios still took risks anyway, but risks based on previous winning formulas. Rocky? Make 5 of 'em. Jaws? Make 4 of 'em. Animal House? Make 5,775 of 'em. How many Porky's CAN we make, anyway? At least 3? Meanwhile, Apocalypse Now is on a short list of "Greatest Ever", and Heaven's Gate is fine movie that needs the beginning sequence to be edited down by half.
The older sepia version did not work out and the cut-down version with subtitles is a wreck, but HEAVEN'S GATE was a political target of the incoming Reagan Administration too, as Kristofferson explained. In real life, it is an extremely ambitious film that if it were not so Marxist, might have done better, but United Artists' best people left to form Orion Pictures and the now-defunct corporate owner Transamerica drive them away and didn't;t even want to run a studio anymore. The Criterion restoration with MGM/UA is the best way to see it and will hopefully get a 4K release at some point. If you want to know how smart the film really is, read the chapters on it in the late, great Robin Wood's book HOLLYWOOD FROM VIETNAM TO REAGAN which starts with THE DEER HUNTER and really hist the nail on the head.
From what I've read, the issue with Heaven's Gate, was less to do the quality of the film, and more to do with it going way over budget and then bombing at the box office.
I agree with everyone here, and just want to add/ask: Didn't the studio fuck with the edit, too? Like, the version that got savaged in reviews wasn't even Cimino's complete vision. I'm sure that had something to do with its failure
Have to take issue here. Chariots of Fire is a great movie. A wonderfully understated, moving film. The English Patient? Yeah, that's a piece of s***. Boring as f***. As for Heaven's Gate, took a 3rd viewing before I said to myself "this is a great film. Man, people were wrong on this.".
You are spot on, GoblinGirl - "Chariots of Fire" is timeless with probably the greatest theme song of any movie, ever. "Heaven's Gate" has many moments of sheer brilliance. And "The English Patient," depicting a love affair between two obnoxious, self-absorbed people does, indeed, suck. Cheers!
I love Cimino's movies. Thunderbolt and Lightfoot was one of my favorite movies when I was a kid and in college when I saw Deer Hunter it blew me away but I've never been able to watch Heaven's Gate all the way through in one sitting. Its a beautiful movie but a total slog. And I read the book Final Cut, about the making of it. Cimino acted like a complete spoiled child throughout. One of the things that buried it was Roger Ebert's initial review which ripped it to shreds in ways that were not fair.
I haven’t seen Heaven’s Gate. Not really motivated to watch it. I liked Chariots Of Fire, but The English Patient was pretty shit except for the pretty cinematography, and Fargo absolutely should have won Best Picture in 1996.
I’ve watched Heavens Gate twice. Once when it came out. Certainly it’s not the worst movie all time but it was very disappointing at the time. My second viewing reinforced my opinion (and that is all this is) that it is not for me.
Tinseltown liberals hated Heaven’s Gate. It was a Western about class warfare between the haves - real Americans - cattle barons and the have-nots - those filthy foreign immigrants. Does that sound familiar, Bill? Cimino was continuing his exploration about class in America as he did in The Deer Hunter. But that was a big commercial and critical success. Artsy fartsy critics anointed him a new and great American ‘’auteur.’ Using French words always scares the suits since Orson Welles came to Hollywood. And the original cut for Heaven’s Gate - already over budget and United Artists near bankruptcy - was way too long. So that means less showings per day and less concession sales between showings. It pissed both the suits and the exhibitors off. So the suits cut and mangled the film. They did the same thing with Sergio Leone’s Once Upon a Time in America. And ruined both films. The director’s cut of Heaven’s Gate restored Cimino’s vision as did the director’s cut of Once a Time in America for Leone. What kind of surprises me about Bill is his comedy comes from his working class roots, which is his claim to fame and it is richly deserved, and yet he doesn’t seem to get the how sensitive Cimino was about class warfare in America. The suits saw him as a subversive populist. They got their payback with the Heaven’s Gate fiasco.
Cimino had to be humbled, I guess. I saw it in the theater on initial release and thought it was fine, with some tremendously good moments. I have the restored version and I'm saving it for a rainy day. I had the same reaction to watching Ishtar. I thought it was really good. Admittedly, I think anything Elaine May has done is good. Maybe one has to like her vision/style/whatever to like her movies. The pile-on on that movie was horrible. I'm a far-cry from a feminist but the negative reaction to Ishtar has sexism all over it.
I wouldn't say sexism would be the main reason (Elaine was a critically acclaimed director/screenwriter throughout the 70s), I think most critics saw Ishtar as juggling way too many themes or having too many cooks in the kitchen. It has so many subplots, goes through so many different tones and that horrible music (although the main point is the music Beatty/Hoffman are performing is meant to be awful). It's definitely ambitious and deserving of a look but by no means did Elaine May deserve to have her career blown to smithereens because of it.
Heaven's Gate isn't the worst movie ever by far, but it's not a good film. It's a loooooong 3 1/2 hours and it's simply not a very interesting story. And UA was insane to ever let Cimino have a blank check and final cut.
Heaven's Gate tanked U.A. That's why Cimino was crucified, and it led the end of a Film era when the Director was trusted with final cut. The movie is in no way bad, and is filled with amazing performances and cinematography (Vilmos Zsigmond), it's just too long in certain parts. I've always liked the movie though.
Yep. The corporations that owned the studios used Heaven's Gate to wrest control away from directors. We've been in Blockbuster Superhero Hell ever since.
It didn't lead to the end of that era alone, its just the one that stuck out. All the big directors had flops at this time then that stopped directors having control
@@guileniam True : Spielberg bombed big time with 1941, Friedkin bombed with CRUISING and DEAL OF THE CENTURY, and then John Landis truly f**ed everything up with his excesses which led to the accidental killing of Vic Morrow and 2 child actors in TWILIGHT ZONE THE MOVIE. THAT ended the era of the all-powerful directors.
@@guileniam I bet Coppola enjoys Cimino getting all the blame while "One from the Heart" has become forgotten in history as another catastrophic bomb.
I heard the final nail in Cimino's coffin was when he was the original director for Footloose, and he started to do the same things that he did on Heaven's Gate (Cimino wanted to rewrite the script, wanted to reconstruct the sets to his liking), which prompted Paramount Pictures to fire him. That incident told Hollywood that Cimino hadn't learned his lesson from Heaven's Gate.
I agree. Watched it on the Criterion Channel. It's fabulous
Sorcerer is also amazing
I am guessing you bring up Scorcerer as another movie that bombed? Not a fan of Heavens Gate but you are right about Scorcerer.
@@KneeAches Yep, it was around the same time as Heavens Gate. Both signaled the end of the Auteur Era of Hollywood, where the director was given control of the their movies.
Sorcerer is excellent.
Shoulda won best picture that year
Sorcerer was as an awesome flick!
I don't think the film is considered the worst film ever like it's well shot and everything it's just got the label of being the film that ended the era of director lead films.
Its reputation has shifted recently but when I was growing up (late 80s/90s), Heaven's Gate frequently appeared on *worst* films of all time lists. Its commercial failure seriously impacted its critical reception for decades.
The New York Times critic Vincent Canby panned the film, calling it "something quite rare in movies these days - an unqualified disaster," comparing it to "a forced four-hour walking tour of one's own living room."
Reviewing the shorter cut in the Chicago Sun-Times, Roger Ebert criticized the film's formal choices and its narrative inconsistencies and incredulities, concluding that the film was "[t]he most scandalous cinematic waste I have ever seen, and remember, I've seen Paint Your Wagon." He also heavily criticized the cinematography, calling the film one of the ugliest he'd ever seen.[44]
In 1999, Time placed the film on a list of the 100 worst ideas of the 20th century.[45]
Writing in The Guardian in 2008, Joe Queenan declared Heaven’s Gate the worst film made up to that time.
The Verge said: "Based on 30 years of critical assessment, Heaven's Gate stands as one of the worst movies ever made. That's not an exaggeration".[47]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_considered_the_worst#1980s do you...
Heaven's Gate is a masterpiece. I think the biggest problem was the film was hastily put together when it was first released and for some unknown reason there was this godawful sepia tint added to the film. The 2012 restoration shows the cinematography in all it's glory. That being said, if you're someone who complains about the wedding scene in Deer Hunter this film is probably not for you.
The critics had it in for the film before it was released and everyone got itchy feet, it's a good film.
Mickey Rourke's first movie was Heaven's Gate and became good friends with Cimino.
Mickey Rourke also has a small part in a movie called "Fade to Black" from the same year. It's a neat little psychological horror gem that's worth checking out. The actor who plays Eddie in the Tim Curry version of "IT" is the main star.
The thing about Heavens Gate: it is NO WAY a storytelling masterpiece...but in fact ONE of the best VISUAL masterpieces ever made. No matter which style you prefer: The original 1980 sepia or the 2012 Restoration version...Vilmos Zsigmond, ASC visual storytelling gravitated you into that time period. Almost as astonishing as Néstor Almendros' work.
1980 really had a great year of visual breathtaking films like Raging Bull and The Elephant Man.
A visual experience I WILL never forget. RIP Michael Cimino.
Heaven's Gate is a gorgeous film, but it's definitely a slow burn.
The reason it was called the worst film is because the hidden history we largely don't know. This film cost other filmmakers an opportunity to get their films off of the ground, due to UA pumping money into it. In addition, the fact that the production was so indulgent, and some of Cimino's behavior on set caused a stir, and its release consequentially became the target of revenge and light ritualistic sacrifice. I like the film a lot. I like The Deer Hunter more.
So basically what Bill was saying...people decided it was bad because of the controversy surrounding it instead of what was on the screen.
@@lynnturman8157 Yep. You can cling to basically and that Bill Burr said something similar based on the same information. Both things are alike, but a little different. Good job.
Or even more simple studios didnt like how the director was spending its budget and they blacklisted him, propaganda smear campaigned him with the critics. Just like they did with Sam Peckingpaw when he did Pedro Garcia
@lynnturman8157 movie news was nowhere near as prevalent as it is today. I guarantee you that only the biggest nerd was aware of that. Most people didn't want to watch a 3.5 hour western when that genre was dying. (3.5 hours!!!)
In the end it made less than 4 million while being one of the most expensive movie made. That's why it's a megabomb. This would be like a Marvel movie making 20 million in total.
This film helped me in GCSE History 1992- Johnson County War- Thanks
Heavens gate is one of my favorite movies. Such a beautiful film
It's a great movie. Watch the 216-minute version. It's beautiful.
I was on board, Bill, until you called Chariots of Fire a bad movie. Chariots of Fire is a great movie. One of my favorites ever.
he didn't say that. just that Heaven's Gate was better, and that its condemnation in light of what he believes an inferior film winning awards is incongruous with his experience
Nope
And the English Patient. Which I liked better than Heavens Gate. HG is so over wrought and feels it from the get go. Also never believed Kristopherson could pull off a leading roll. Too wooden.
@@jameshays2646 Yeah, okay. I re-listened to it & he didn't call COF a bad movie. He just said it was all right but not as good as Heaven's Gate. Well, I still disagree with him. COF is a great movie, IMO.
Bill is very correct on this one. It's a beautifully made movie. Cimino made a few great movies, Year of The Dragon included imo
I watched this for the first time about a year ago on Criterion channel. Always heard a lot of negative stuff about it, but i loved it. I think theres different cuts of the movie though and im sure that probably plays a factor. The version i saw was like 3 hours 40 minutes or something
I consider Babylon to be the modern equivalent of Heaven’s Gate. It came out, it bombed, and critics savaged it…..but just like Heaven’s Gate, when you actually watch it, it’s pretty fucking good.
"Waterworld is a good movie" indeed it is.
Eh, thee criticism was deserved, it can be a pretty iffy film in parts and it does have a grimmy vibe that makes it look sleazier than it is, but it is not horrendous and it is pretty OK.
Heaven’s Gate was released with a dark sepia filter over all the colors. The colorful version we see here didn’t see the light of day until the 2000s.
I haven't seen Heavens Gate yet but I intend to, I found Year of the Dragon to be pretty good. On another note I watched a similar infamous huge flop called Eureka with Gene Hackman and a lot of other dudes and it was one of the most epic films I've ever seen (at least the opening 30 minutes).
Bill needs Letterboxd
Yeah it's very popular over there.
Kristofferson and Rourke appeared together years later in
the music video
"Shuttin Detroit Down"
by John Rich
UA was owned by the Transamerica Corp....the box office disaster didn't make a blip to its share price...it could have continued owning UA and continued making huge profits with the Bond and Rocky franchise plus the more critically acclaimed movies!
Bill Burr has no clue as to the woes of Heaven''s Gate. It wasn't about the quality of the film; it was about the overspending of the production and the mismanagement of the film's production by inept executives.
Yeah, but it was also poorly reviewed. People said it was bad. It's definitely big and unwieldy. Unfocused, maybe. But it's closer to a masterpiece than most movies.
Yeah, the press didn't help. But a lot of the media attention at the time was focused around the money, asking "is this film good enough to warrant its unprecedented budget?"
There's a fascinating book on the subject "Final Cut: Art, Money, and Ego in the Making of Heaven's Gate, the Film that Sank United Artists". Also, "Easy Riders, Raging Bulls" touch on that as well. "Heaven's Gate" was around the time of "Apocalypse Now", so they were hunting for headstrong auteurs who didn't manage their budgets to the studio's (or Coppola's accountant's) liking.
No, the reviews killed it, and they were talking about quality. My favorite was “Watching ‘Heaven’s Gate’ is like taking a forced 4-hour walking tour of your own living room.” That review was was got MGM to pull it from theaters to cut an hour in an effort to save it.
@@erbaldwin1Coppola at least had a legit excuse for budget overruns since nearly all the sets had to be rebuilt after that typhoon. Plus the smaller delay waiting for Martin Sheen to recover from his heart attack.
@@bobcobb3654 The famed Vincent Canby review from New York Times. Roger Ebert compared it to "Paint Your Wagon" as the biggest cinematic waste ever. The only critic who loved it was Kevin Thomas of the Los Angeles Times who "never felt so alone enjoying a film". Funnily enough, the LA Times were so embarrassed by Kevin's review that they got the previous veteran critic to trash the film and put that review on the front page while Kevin's was placed in an interior section of the paper.
It was infamously over-budget and not on time, that is the poor reputation.
Great American cinematic film.
Burr obviously saw the Director's Cut recently and he's not realizing all the hate and criticism for the film was for the theatrical cut, which was much shorter and chopped up.
Well, the initial release that got destroyed by critics was the longer cut. It only played for a week though before Cimino asked UA to withdraw it from theaters so he could recut it.
Always loved the movie, but I'm a history nerd sooooooo
It's funny that quite a number of comments refer to the notion that this Movie ended the power of the director to choose his own final cut. Really?
I think it maybe started the sub-genre - the Lucrative sub-genre - OF 'Director's Cut' versions of movies. Why sell a Movie once? No, first sell 'em a version they won't be satisfied with. Then sell'em an extended version. Then sell'em a complete version. Then sell'em the DIRECTOR'S CUT!!!!! - all silence now! Bow before the Master, you little people.
...........Oh and then sell'em the director's final cut, and then the definitive version, and then the.............
Ridley Scott & Zack Snyder are experts in that business
Reminds me of the reception of Babylon.
Please upload this movie free for all
Heavens Gate was cocaine deal and money laundering operation. Almost everyone in that movie is coked out of their mind, I mean just look at Jeff Bridges in any scene he's in.
Bill's right in general, but there's more, here. I think there was a concerted effort to trash this auteurist movie, and you see it with Apocalypse Now, as well. "Francis' Folly". Blah blah. The money guys were tired of the "inmates running the asylum", that's it, and so they set their mouthpieces in the media to work, moaning about budget costs, pretentious directors, even environmental damage on occasion - whatever worked to get people contemptible of a movie before it came out. The campaign mostly worked - Heaven's Gate flopped, Apocalypse flopped (so they SAY, but I have doubts about that). Probably others I can't remember. Soon enough, the money men took it all back over and the quality of American cinema sagged considerably in the 80s, compared to the 70s. Amusingly enough, the studios still took risks anyway, but risks based on previous winning formulas. Rocky? Make 5 of 'em. Jaws? Make 4 of 'em. Animal House? Make 5,775 of 'em. How many Porky's CAN we make, anyway? At least 3? Meanwhile, Apocalypse Now is on a short list of "Greatest Ever", and Heaven's Gate is fine movie that needs the beginning sequence to be edited down by half.
The older sepia version did not work out and the cut-down version with subtitles is a wreck, but HEAVEN'S GATE was a political target of the incoming Reagan Administration too, as Kristofferson explained. In real life, it is an extremely ambitious film that if it were not so Marxist, might have done better, but United Artists' best people left to form Orion Pictures and the now-defunct corporate owner Transamerica drive them away and didn't;t even want to run a studio anymore. The Criterion restoration with MGM/UA is the best way to see it and will hopefully get a 4K release at some point. If you want to know how smart the film really is, read the chapters on it in the late, great Robin Wood's book HOLLYWOOD FROM VIETNAM TO REAGAN which starts with THE DEER HUNTER and really hist the nail on the head.
Finally got to see Heaven's Gate and thought it was pretty good actually. Shame it broke the studio
One of the greatest movies of all time
Heaven's Gate is a legit great film.
"One of the worst movies ever made." Give me berak with that. Have none of these people seen "Monster a Go-Go"?
From what I've read, the issue with Heaven's Gate, was less to do the quality of the film, and more to do with it going way over budget and then bombing at the box office.
I agree with everyone here, and just want to add/ask: Didn't the studio fuck with the edit, too? Like, the version that got savaged in reviews wasn't even Cimino's complete vision. I'm sure that had something to do with its failure
Is it the worst movie ever? No. Does it suck and drag on and on and on? Yes.
Have to take issue here. Chariots of Fire is a great movie. A wonderfully understated, moving film.
The English Patient? Yeah, that's a piece of s***. Boring as f***.
As for Heaven's Gate, took a 3rd viewing before I said to myself "this is a great film. Man, people were wrong on this.".
You are spot on, GoblinGirl - "Chariots of Fire" is timeless with probably the greatest theme song of any movie, ever. "Heaven's Gate" has many moments of sheer brilliance. And "The English Patient," depicting a love affair between two obnoxious, self-absorbed people does, indeed, suck. Cheers!
I love Cimino's movies. Thunderbolt and Lightfoot was one of my favorite movies when I was a kid and in college when I saw Deer Hunter it blew me away but I've never been able to watch Heaven's Gate all the way through in one sitting. Its a beautiful movie but a total slog. And I read the book Final Cut, about the making of it. Cimino acted like a complete spoiled child throughout.
One of the things that buried it was Roger Ebert's initial review which ripped it to shreds in ways that were not fair.
I haven’t seen Heaven’s Gate. Not really motivated to watch it. I liked Chariots Of Fire, but The English Patient was pretty shit except for the pretty cinematography, and Fargo absolutely should have won Best Picture in 1996.
I thought Ishtar had been called the worst movie ever.
The waltz on the lawn and the opening of 2001: A Space Odyssey...
The English Patient was an amazing film. Must have gone over Bill's head. Kind of like COVID 😳😂
Why is it that Burr looks so much like Billy Corgan??
i agree but why is michael so obsessed with long wedding scenes
A cast of thousands. The movie was attacked.
Showgirls and Waterworld are fun to watch and good movies in my book. Heaven's Gate is excruciatingly boring.
This is at the top of my watch list. I want to see the biggest flop of all time.
The reason this movie bombed is because it's a western with NO cowboy hats.
There is a comedy with Ryan o’neal playing an egotistical movie director. Word on da street that it is based on his close friend; Michael Cimino.
I’ve watched Heavens Gate twice. Once when it came out. Certainly it’s not the worst movie all time but it was very disappointing at the time. My second viewing reinforced my opinion (and that is all this is) that it is not for me.
Heavens gate is so gorgeous but man but it drag in parts
I mean it looks ok. I'd see it.
Hollywood studios pay for rewards! Isn't that what Ricky Gervais taught us?
I thought this was going to be about the cult
Hollywood producers reasserting control from the artists. No more Francis Ford Coppolas, or their pinko societal analysis.
With a good, tighter editing Heaven's Gate would be a great movie, a classic.
It wasn't dubbed worst picture of all time...but wasn't it biggest box-office bomb ?
They killed alot of animals on the set. Led to the "no animals were harmed" being in movies credits
Yeah it was overplayed comment that became a reality...easy comment to keep reprinting years later.
Worst movie? ......"Oh hi Mark."
Tinseltown liberals hated Heaven’s Gate. It was a Western about class warfare between the haves - real Americans - cattle barons and the have-nots - those filthy foreign immigrants. Does that sound familiar, Bill? Cimino was continuing his exploration about class in America as he did in The Deer Hunter. But that was a big commercial and critical success. Artsy fartsy critics anointed him a new and great American ‘’auteur.’ Using French words always scares the suits since Orson Welles came to Hollywood. And the original cut for Heaven’s Gate - already over budget and United Artists near bankruptcy - was way too long. So that means less showings per day and less concession sales between showings. It pissed both the suits and the exhibitors off. So the suits cut and mangled the film. They did the same thing with Sergio Leone’s Once Upon a Time in America. And ruined both films. The director’s cut of Heaven’s Gate restored Cimino’s vision as did the director’s cut of Once a Time in America for Leone. What kind of surprises me about Bill is his comedy comes from his working class roots, which is his claim to fame and it is richly deserved, and yet he doesn’t seem to get the how sensitive Cimino was about class warfare in America. The suits saw him as a subversive populist. They got their payback with the Heaven’s Gate fiasco.
Cimino had to be humbled, I guess. I saw it in the theater on initial release and thought it was fine, with some tremendously good moments. I have the restored version and I'm saving it for a rainy day.
I had the same reaction to watching Ishtar. I thought it was really good. Admittedly, I think anything Elaine May has done is good. Maybe one has to like her vision/style/whatever to like her movies. The pile-on on that movie was horrible. I'm a far-cry from a feminist but the negative reaction to Ishtar has sexism all over it.
I wouldn't say sexism would be the main reason (Elaine was a critically acclaimed director/screenwriter throughout the 70s), I think most critics saw Ishtar as juggling way too many themes or having too many cooks in the kitchen. It has so many subplots, goes through so many different tones and that horrible music (although the main point is the music Beatty/Hoffman are performing is meant to be awful). It's definitely ambitious and deserving of a look but by no means did Elaine May deserve to have her career blown to smithereens because of it.
@@koomo801 “I’m a far cry from a feminist” You probably are you just don’t like the branding for insecure reasons
Bill just can't mask his xenophobia
Heaven's Gate isn't the worst movie ever by far, but it's not a good film. It's a loooooong 3 1/2 hours and it's simply not a very interesting story. And UA was insane to ever let Cimino have a blank check and final cut.
Chariots of Fire and The English Patient are much better than Heaven's Gate.
English patient....??? Crap.....personally
. 2 hours I gave up to that.
ENGLISH PATIENT is an artsy fartsy Chick Flick (the kind that would 100 % get you laid if you took a date to see it ;)
Movie sucked balls.