Ep. 5 - Awakening from the Meaning Crisis - Plato and the Cave
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 พ.ค. 2024
- New videos released every Friday.
Podcast Links:
•Anchor: anchor.fm/john-vervaeke
•Google Podcasts: www.google.com/podcasts?feed=...
•Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/43gIWKV...
•Breaker: www.breaker.audio/awakening-f...
•Pocket Casts: pca.st/EYU4
•RadioPublic: radiopublic.com/awakening-fro...
Books in the Video:
•George Ainslie - Breakdown of Will
•Arthur Versluis - Platonic Mysticism: Contemplative Science, Philosophy, Literature, and Art
Series Playlist: th-cam.com/users/playlist?list...
Facebook: / vervaeke.john
Twitter: / vervaeke_john
Fifth episode of Dr. John Vervaeke's Awakening from the Meaning Crisis.
It’s unbelievable that such information is free on the internet. Thank you so much!
This is what the internet is for!
@@atlasfeynman1039 Say it louder for the folks in the back !!!
@@TheKingWhoWins Pause and rewind any parts that you missed or are fuzzy on. Replay lectures you don't understand the next day with the freedom to let your mind wander and not miss the info you were daydreaming through... If I had video recordings of my professors lectures, I would have done much better in university.
Every professor owes it to their field to record their lectures for future upload.
Why? If he were saying anything beyond what he's read I'd agree.
@@jamesbarlow6423 He actually does, but you would know that if you'd read any of the books he's discussing. This specific lecture is on Plato's Republic, but even having read it, there is much to be learned that cannot be absorbed in one reading, as, of course, you already know.
I'm so happy you waited a while to do this. For me these lectures come at a perfect time, and I think it's the sort of thing people will naturally go to after they are "done" with Jordan Peterson's material. Your material acts as such a great complement but also deepening of things that JP could not go into because he is so involved in the culture wars. Your lectures in this way remain purely about improvement and insight. These lectures are all very dense and not easy to watch -- but well worth the effort. The fact that you made it free is a great service to humanity. These lecture will serve to truly transform peoples lives in a way I dont think any other speaker prior to this could do. And the book images are a great touch as well as the listing of the key concepts in text. It's like you took the JP model and improved upon it. Bravo and Many Thanks
How astute! I myself got into these after passing through my Peterson phase, and thought the same as you.
They are colleagues in the same department at the same university! (University of Toronto)
Although some say the Jordan Peterson is the gateway drug to the “alt-right”, I’d say he’s the gateway drug to John Vervaeke. Ditto all the other commenters here, but I’d also say that JP awakened me to the culture wars which I was fairly oblivious of and he helped me to clarify my positions
@@tonychapman5753 yes very astute I too find myself going through a similar transition to Johns works after having watched everything JBP put out 3 or 4 or more times. They had a conversation and it was very interesting.
Haha holy crap, same. I watched all of JP's MoM/biblical/personality lectures, journalism appearances so many times, I have them pretty much memorized. And now I'm transitioning to Vervaeke. I feel like Vervaeke is the "cool, eccentric uncle" to Petersons "darkly eccentric dad"
🌊 I'm riding an escooter from West Hollywood to my studio in downtown LA and back every day primarily as an excuse to listen to this (relatively) undistracted... what an absolute masterpiece it is and what an absolute wonder to be alive to experience it all. 🌊
MEANINGWAVE 🌊❤🌍
Meaningwave and meaning crisis and chill! cant wait for the remix of this!
@@SapientEudaimonia great nickname and profile pic 😃 I use the same on social media
@@gridcoregilry666 Thank you, brother!
Just when I thought this series couldn't get any better, chocolate cake sound effects!
The way you broke down temporal discounting and the continuous rediscovery of Plato’s theory of soul was marvelous. I’m loving this series, thank you John.
This was the most insightful lecture on Plato's allegory of the cave that I've come across. Amazing.
Also, I found this lecture series yesterday and I don't think I'll stop before its completion. Your enthusiasm for the subject is infectious, not to mention the inherent content of it. Thank you so much.
This lecture, or story, or myth, whatever it should be called, is like the sunlight in the parable-- to me at least.
This is the most engaging podcast I’ve committed to.
As a U of T alumni and former student of Prof. Vervaeke, I cannot express how glad I am that Prof. Vervaeke has moved and continues to move into this space.
Seriously, this is lecture is so ingenoius I have to cry. I have an epiphany like every 5 minutes 🥹 awesome how you connect the dots, I bow to you man.
I look forward to this every Friday. Thank you for your lectures John, both online and offline
Canadian Professors sharing the wisdom for free with humanity will forever be a fascinating sign of love. Thank you so much ♡
Tried watching this 3 years ago. When I was 21-22. I turned 25 in February and it did not speak the way it just did to me. Thank you John.
I remember being absolutely blown away by the conversation John had with Jordan Peterson a few years ago, where you had some great back and fourths and came to a mutual understanding in many points. A series of conversations between you guys would be bloody amazing.
Seconded!
Oh yes indeed.
There was a new one recently.
I'm a scientist that has always been interested in the esoteric. I like the way you bring together science, wisdom, and spirituality in these lecture series. Thank you very much for these lectures! I hope to make it all the way through the series.
This is what the Internet was meant for. Thank you so much for these lectures, sir.
The cave metaphor is awe inspiring. I want to remember it forever. It feels like a description of a psychedelic experience.
These videos are sacred to me.
every episode is completely NEW UNKNOWN information, things and concepts I never could have guessed existed, it is an incredible discovery every time. I sit with my note book and treat this as a uni course. The previous episode about Socratic thinking really raised my consciousness.
Thank you prof. Vervaeke ♥️ this is life-changing
I’m more interested in connecting with all the epic humans in this chat! Out of all the shit you could’ve and could be watching.. you’re here..
I salute you all!
What a gift John Vervaeke 💪 thank you very much
Thank you John. I also want to share that these lectures pair incredibly well with Ian McGilchrist’s Book, The Master and His Emissary.
Setup a way to donate to you, listening to your lecture makes me feel cheated from the philosophy classes I've taken
I gasped earlier when I realized that today is Friday. Thank you, John Vervaeke!
Gonna have to drive to the store and get some chocolate now
John you are an intellectual titan and I’ve greatly enjoyed these lectures. I keep coming back to them, each time I find new insights
The way he talks about his relationship with chocolate is incredibly endearing.
And relatable :/
Fellow chocolate addict here as well
Oral traditions of Upanishads in India existed long long time before the Axial revolution came about in many parts of the world. Plato's cave analogy and the idea of self-transcendence, transformation, liberation from self-deception that clouds us from recognizing the true nature of our reality... all these were expressed with such intense rational rigor in the Upanishads. The idea of "mithya", the apparent reality, that which is neither existent nor non-existent (sad asad vilakshaNa), the very basis of empirical world that conditions us so much to hide the truth of immutable nature of Absolute Reality, were later expressed by many great minds across many different civilizations in their own ways. Vedantic wisdom is the highest wisdom that reveals the "sAdhak", a true practitioner, to the true nature of reality.
I find it quite interesting that someone can go through this kind of subject without mentioning vedanta
54:18 Absolutely amazing. The whole transcends the constituent parts.
Thank you John. I am learning more about Ancient Greek philosophers in your lectures, than I ever did as a young man attending a Greek school.
Thank you John, This is a lecturer masterpiece. This is truly a life giving, life affirming work you are doing. I feel intimately linked to the story of humanity and consciousness in a way I’ve never experienced.
Thank you, Dr. Vervaeke, for this wonderful gift you've decided to share with us all.
While "The Matrix" is similar to the allegory of the cave the movie is based on a book "Simulacra and Simulation" by Jean Baudrillard. I believe this is an important distinction because Baudrillard elucidates a few important concept's that expose to some degree the modern "cave" we find ourselves in.
The word matrix has its origin in the word matron, or mother. In the ancient Mesopotamian cosmogonic creation myth the great mother is captured and divided into "the world" by the Logos.
In Simulacra and Simulation an ancient race of cartographers create a map as big as their territory, that is undistinguishable from the territory itself.
The ancient Mesopotamian people mapped a great many things, from the earth to the stars. Many foundations of civilization appear for the first time in history in ancient Mesopotamia. One idea or psycho technology that appears is the use of currency.
To be able to use a currency one has to first psychologically map value onto said currency. This creates a simulacra of value that is undistinguishable from the _true_ meaning of value.
I believe this distortion of _true_ or present value inhibits our ability to perceive _true_ value. That this inability to perceive _true_ value is synonymous with inhibiting the perception of present "objective" meaning mirrored in the Christian mythos with the separation from God, and the fall.
Mathew Hill I‘m eagerly reading, then you smuggle jesus in.
@@lzszl Regardless of personal belief, we cannot deny the power of the archetypal symbology of the Messiah.
Interestsing analysis!
When you said « _true_ meaning of value », we’re you trying to say « _true_ value », instead ?
@@mathewhill5556
Yeah, well, fascists certainly can’t, alright !!!! : p
They really just like a different Messiah than the Christian/Catholic one, that’s all… Hell, a lot of Far Right-wingers, like Nero-reactionaries, or rather « Dark Enlightenment thinkers » & Neo-Nazis, specifically, are quite Catholic themselves (at least the first kind) (And I’d like to also say that « Right-Wing Third Positionists » are also part of this recent « Alt-Right » umbrella of the political compass)
You have utterly enflamed my love for learning and teaching, at the same time. The desire I have to provoke into 'unknown' and to push and evolve the questions, to dance in life with it. I am in a state of wonder and I never want to leave it. Thank you.
Beautiful Work
This has been so wonderful so far. I keep getting hung up on philosophy, because of the static nature of most interpretations. You're bringing to light the flux and movement of our being. The cyclical transformation you describe feels closer to Truth. I'm not sure I've heard Plato interpreted quite like this.
Phenomenal job so far.
Absolutely fantastic. Can't wait for next installment...
Professor you are fantastic! Thank you.
A mind hungry for wisdom and reason feasts until bursting from this bounty.
This is so powerful John. Great lecture. Looking forward to the next lectures.
I really noticed how easy it is to fiddle with people's salience detectors while watching this. Even though he only mentioned Hamilton (where I live) as an arbitray example I immediately perked up and felt happy to be very indirectly acknowledged.
I guess that's a pretty obvious example since they do exactly that at concerts and political rallies all the time. But it was interesting to notice when it was happening to me.
2:40 what makes something sacred is that it is an inexhaustible fount of wisdom and intelligibility that's transformative of us
29:00 The very machinery that makes you adaptive makes you prey to self-deceptive self-destructive behavior
There is an extraordinary version of Plato's analogy of the cave in the closing few pages of the chapter eternal snow in Thomas Mann's masterpiece , the magic mountain. He takes the analogy to another level. One that is rather unpalatable for most readers. It truly is extraordinary writing. The protagonists go thru a paradise world , only to arrive at a hell unimaginable
These lectures are beautifully crafted art-thank you.
The daimonic in dialogue is the path towards harmony and mastery.
I appreciate YOUR time JV ❤️🍄
Thank you, Ol'Teacher
I’m so grateful and thankful for this series forever indebted to Dr Vervaeke 🙏. This is gold
This such a relevant lecture. The inner conflict part really spoke to me. It’s truly majestic to watch how all these perennial problems got brilliant minds of the past to think about them and today we still battle with so many of these issues. It’s a great wake up call for everyone. Truly universal teachings.
Every time I rewatch the series I understand so many new things and
I realize that I didn’t even truly understand half of it during my last watch
Worth every rewatch 👍
Can’t believe I have access to this series for free
The previous episodes were great, of course, but this is where the series starts to pop off. If this were a Netflix show, I'd tell people "stick with it until episode 5, it really picks up."
So fantastic! Gestalt has been on my mind lately so that was quite the shock! Much love and thanks John. This work is so important.
It's always fascinating when someone has a thought or opinion etc that is still relevant so so so long after they passed.
Not only relevant to us in general but this whole non human intelligence topic. This is all I'm hearing about for the last few years so it was nice to have such a strong teacher break this down. About to re listen to it. I skipped lesson 4 because I was so excited then got to busy and distracted on 5 so I'm going back to this. Mmmm its like a drug lol
I got many insides from this one, thank you so much, John!
Even though I’m familiar with most of the literature that he is discussing, I find so much new meaning and understanding from John’s approach and explanations. This lectures are brilliant. Will not only see them all, but will definitely get some of his books…
20:48-21:30.... Wow. What a soundbyte. I’m in a near-constant state of wonder listening to these lectures, but this is an awesome moment.
Participatory knowing. Aka being open to revision.
This concept has helped me tremendously.
This series just gets better and better. This is the most valuable content on the internet. I'm dreading the final ep. Thank you so much Mr. Vervaeke.
Great talk, thanks for the upload
Brilliant. So grateful
Fascinating Information . . . Thank You!
Dr. Vervaeke, I’ve heard people translate the Gestalt idea as “The whole is greater than the sum of its parts” but I’ve also heard it rendered… “the whole is other, than the sum of its parts”. I think it helps me with the concepts you present to think of it in the latter, as the whole being something “other” than the sum of its parts.
I’m loving this series hard!!! Thank you 🙏🏼.
Thank You Very Much 🙏
These are excellent. Thank you so much.
Awesome talk John! As a Dharma bum who quit the corporate world your series is speaking to me on so many levels. This is the course I always wanted to take in school! Keep up the good fight 👊
FANTASTIC....Thank you ...
You had me as soon as Eric Satie's Les gymnopedies started playing.
Best lecture so far. Thank you.
When John elaborates on the cave analogy and explains how the individual frees himself from the chains in the cave and starts to see the light entering the cave from its opening; his vision has to readjust to allow more light in, which in turn requires further adjustment of the vision and the mechanisms of perception (a slow and tentative process). This makes me think of how the human unit is somewhat like an organ of perception in itself (like the eye) which through large spans of time evolves to better perceive and physiologically, emotionally and mentally incorporate the principles of light into his being and bring them into the lived experience; thus, man becomes attuned to the more sophisticated and universal principles of light.
The physical eye for example already physiologically responds to light, but it seems what is being shown here is that the mind also has the potential to become mentally receptive and participatory to light. With more and more sophistication physical, emotional and mental material is able to participate with the reality in which it finds itself. This very much reminds me of one of Jordan Petersons lectures in which he talks about Piaget’s theory that the human needs to first know how to perceive and then how to act in order to better get what he wants (Jordan explains this brilliantly in 2016 Personality Lecture 04: Piaget Constructivism). In a sense, to master life one needs to be able to accurately perceive, then know how to act and then he can in John’s example fulfil the deep desire of being more in touch with reality, which is perhaps, on a meta level, what Piaget meant by ‘getting what one wants'. Thanks John!
I am entranced by this. It's the most important problem we face in the West, or perhaps even on planet Earth.
I'm going to comb the shit out of this series one day. Read every book in the reading list from beginning to end.
How have you progressed on this? Have you found any interesting insights?
I've made a full list of all citations in the series. I own some of the books, and I intend to start some kind of TH-cam series in the future. I don't feel I can start just yet however.
@@Valosken Awesome! Best of luck on your journey! I'm just now going through these lectures, but I think John is doing an excellent job about framing both our cognitive and philosophical history.
Wonderful. Thanks for sharing sir.
Ah the answers! No bullshit policy works magic. Kudos, professor ❤️
28:55 nobody is perfect. Mind needs to be trained. Adaptive mechanism of brain can also misinterpret and self-deceive.
53:30 what binds content and behaviour? Structural-fuctional organization. The whole is greater than its parts.
Enter the Gestalt from German, or Logos from Greek. Pattern recognition under the hood. Form leads to name. Children have no name for bird when they see it first time.
No words! just thank you
47:47
The movie "The Matrix" is the perfect metaphor for "Plato and the cave".
🌠Excellent work Dr. Vervaeke!
I love the explanation of head, lion & monster, as well as the entire episode, it is really good. Thank you a lot from Argentina .😊
Best explanation of the Cave I've come across- thanks!
THANK YOU!
I'm not formally diagnosed so take this with a grain of salt, but I have some amount of unwarranted generalised anxiety and this is a perfect description of how I think 24:16. I have literally drawn a probability tree to explain to inquiring loved ones how I think and what I feel. I had never thought of it from the perspective that my mechanism for discounting future low-probability events isn't discounting as much as it probably should be. Thank you.
The older I get the more I m grateful to have learnt English by surviving abroad though at late stage of my life . Year by Year I m trying to unfold my mind and brighten up that family-institional cave in which my provincial and Italian University had kept me in for so long as to almost suffocating me and killing me for real by the lies, biases, silly talk and bad habits . I m grateful to my masters Seneca, Kierkargaard, Hegel , to Alexandros, Hume, Thomas Paine and many wisemen to encourage my solitary path towards a better life and understanding of my true self..I've read about Socrates by Plato's books and as he says in The Symposium " " " we need to search restlessly our self , we need to understand how poor we are to love and only by accidents and trials by meaningful actions, by mortal thoughts and pitiful sacrifices we get to be in love with true and being truthful in love " " "
Thank You John Vervaeke, for helping me value human pursuit of world within
These are so great.
One of the greatest things I've seen in a long time.
Brilliant through and through. Even ending with Satie! Thank you.
I loved this! You presented this so clearly.
Fantastic. Best explanation of the cave I have seen.
Love you John
Super grateful for these lectures
Oh man this is just pure gold. What I'm personally finding is that I have been attracted to everything you're talking about and embodying in practice but had none of the language. You are helping me update, interconnect, pull apart, burn off, and grow so much. Thank you so much for being you, listening and challenging yourself to go where you have been going. Your journey is enriching and aiding so many, me included.
Train the Lion to tame the Monster.
My new favorite quote of all time. Well done sir. Absolute beauty in your words.
36:30 Plato's cave as a vast government conspiracy involving one's parents. This is incredible, brilliant😂
Thank you, John, for such powerful teaching.
31:00 The Platonic Division is prehistoric Taoist head, heart and gut, upper Tien, middle Tien and Dan Tien.
A wise man once said - "Aaaah, Chocolaty, sweet, yummmm"
These just keep getting better and better.
I was waiting all day for this.
Yes....love your distinction about what is actually sacred vs supernatural presence
What a great presentation. I love it. I mean I'm no smart person and have an extensive share of mistakes but this here, this helps me process information in life better. And so, thank you mister. Is humans like you that save lives like mine and catapult it into a better state of being. Thanks. I hope you have an awesome life.
I really like your work John. I usually don't understand everything the first time, but I really enjoy rewatching your lectures after a couple of days of letting it sink in. It's really "flow-state-inducing-material". Thank you