Med Student Purposely Harms Patient
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- A medical student in North Carolina reportedly bragged on social media that she intentionally stuck a needle twice into a patient during a blood draw after he mocked her “pronoun pin.” This is the story of what happened. I, as always, give my thoughts on the situation at the end! Timestamps below...
00:35 - What Happened?
03:27 - What Did the Med student do?
05:30 - How the med school responded
06:05 - Thoughts of the twitterverse
07:37 - The med student’s apology
08:06 - My thoughts on the situation
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As a nurse with over 28 years experience, it would never occur to me to put anything about my interactions with patients on social media. Just like I’d never take a photo of a patient. Privacy is essential in health care.
I agree. I’m 45 years old and an anesthesiologist . I posted above in comments regarding interactions with patients but never thought to post on sm. I never even pull out my cell phone at work to look at social media. We have younger drs here at my hospital who can’t live without it and always on their phones. This younger generation seeks validation by way of social media and that’s scary imo.
@@shadesofvintageblue i’m 30 so I wouldn’t say i’m on the younger side of the HC professionals (lol) but the only time i’ve posted on social media was when i’m already in my car or at home and take a selfie of how zombie looking i am after a shift 😂 i’ve never ranted anything about my patients on social media. HCPs should never get personal in dealing with patients or even ranting about co workers. One tweet or IG post can ruin your entire career. Also it would help if nurses/doctors won’t download tiktok, I don’t have it, and I’ve been off of Instagram and Facebook since the beginning of this year. Social media a bad place to rant 😂 with the exception of youtube because of Dr Glaucomflecken 😎
@@JustAStranger2222 I agree. Yeah I don’t have TikTok only instagram which is set private to family and friends. Haven’t posted in over a year on there but its the last place I want to talk about work. If I need to confide in someone it’s usually my hubby, mom, dad, or sometimes chaplain at my hospital.🤦🏽♀️🤭 I work at 3 hospitals and we received our updated heath policies beginning of year. I was highly shocked to read from 2020-2021 we had over 23 employees fired due to social media.
I solved it for you: "As a nurse with over 28 years experience"
you are probably one of the wisest by now
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I'm a CNA who's also been an in home caregiver. I've been hit with limbs, objects, been threatened, been berated, been cursed at, etc. I think honestly Healthcare professionals need training in dealing with abusive patients and patients need a reminder that we're people too.
Definitely agree with this. It’s something hospitals don’t train us in. I usually walk out room and allow someone else to handle the patient. As a doctor, I spoke of this many times as we don’t have a true recourse in dealing with difficult patients.
We do get training it’s called CPI certification and deescalation certification. Unfortunately they don’t give this education to techs. When I became a nurse we were sent to this training and I was like “man I really could have used this for the last ten years I worked as a CNA.” I had way wore physical interaction with belligerent patients as a CNA. Just shows who they’re willing to spend money on…..
@@CascadeDetergent we have that as well but as time goes on it’s been much harder because it’s big focus and end results are restraint. Some are harder to deal with and many times the anger started from home or ambulance. It’s one of those courses you have to stay up to do as I’ve seen things go left field very quickly without provocation. It wasn’t as bad 15 years ago compared to with humans. I’m any form of human interaction some humans don’t know how to communicate effectively. It’s an ever so involving training now. I agree all hospital employees should have this type of training. You guys are some of the first healthcare workers to see patients before us.
I absolutely agree. As a former in-home caregiver and former retail employee, the abuse you receive from the general public is substantial. That said, there is a pervasive problem of medical staff treating marginalized people so badly that it causes people to not seek medical care. When i was strung out, i would lance my own abscesses without anesthetic because of the way i was often treated by staff. We would get along fine until my chart came back. I got a pill seeker flag or whatever because i refused painkillers. They asked why and for some reason I was stupid enough to tell them the truth, i had kicked a heroin habit and i didn't want to take painkillers if i didn't need them. They said "thanks for telling us" and now half the time i walk into a hospital, I'm treated like absolute shit. I have been traumatized by my experiences with hospitals to the point where i won't go unless i know not going will literally kill me and in some cases I'll buy antibiotics off the street and take my chances.
Edit: i forgot to put former in front of in-home caregiver. Car accident destroyed my back and i can't physically do that job anymore. I work at a desk now.
I think hospitals need to support staff more with abuse too. Like I get it when someone is delirious but there should still be interventions in place if a team member is getting hit or punched. Not okay lol. We are not punching bags.
Dude I’ve had patients tell me “you speak so well for a black person” Lmaoo. Patients are nuts.
Ugh. Terrible.
All the time!!! Or “I did not expect you to sound like that!”
That’s a big one from my patients. The worse was from a patient telling me to go back where I came from. I assume Africa, despite being French American with an accent. I never experienced that anywhere but here in America, unfortunately. It got under my skin and I kindly walked downstairs to the chaplain to vent.🤦🏽♀️
lmao... I always get patients asking where my name comes from. I'm always like, "I don't know honestly.. where does Bob come from?" Like it's the same thing.. stop it! Or.. "where are you from?" It kills me!! But I'm used to it by now lol.
Sorry, but that's a racist remark!! That should have
been dealt with immediately!! Was that a psych patient??
I’m 45 years old and an anesthesiologist. I get the fine line with medical and social media but everything is not meant for social media. I’ve seen this only happen to the younger generation of medical staff including doctors. I didn’t grow up in university or medical school during social media frenzy but I can say so many can’t live without it and that’s scary. I’ve had all type of patients from calling me a n**ga, ,throwing a tray at me and telling me to go back to where I come from (assuming Africa, but I’m French American with a French accent) and never in my wildest years thought this is something I should post on social media. Matter of fact, if I’m at work I don’t EVER get on social media or take out my personal phone. I have my work phone and hospital pager out noticeable . This generation feels like they need to seek validation and it very well can be hurting the medical field. All it takes for one person do something wrong and then new measures and laws affect all of us. I just don’t get it. What happened to me is the first time I displayed it on social media in this comment under this one video. If I can’t affectively do my job because of the patient I calmly tell the patient give me a minute and walk out. Once I walk out I asked in those cases above for another anesthesiologist to step in to assist this patient.
But that's not to say you or the hospital should tolerate abusive behaviour towards staff members.
You are a MD and you have the option to walk out. Nurses don't have the option to call in another nurse.
Sadily this validation is a bandwagon many nurses are flocking to. It will disrupt the profession and will irreparably harm it for years to come.
@@MNP208 actually nurses have that option as well. Are you a nurse? It sure dosent seem like it.
@@jd3377 there are fine lines that prevent a patients percieved abuse as actionable. Many times they could be mentally ill or under the influence of meds prescribed or alcohol and drugs taken prior to arrival for care. That is 75% of the cases. The other 25% typically is handled by security or the local pd. Sadily these are the cases where most assaults occur. I have two words to help remedy the problem. Jiu jitsu. It has served me quite well over the last 15 yrs. It's not an offensive art. It's gentle defense and immobilization.
When I was a student nurse, I was helping another nurse get her patient's vitals. I guess I did not vibe with the patient because he literally berated me harshly saying stuff like "stop being so cheerful, wipe that smile off your face, why don't you know how to do anything??" I was kinda shocked and cried in the washroom later lol.
The next week, the same patient came up to me and apologized. He said that he reflected on his actions and that his words were hurtful. I nearly started crying again LOL. Apparently the patient was in a lot of pain back then (I had no clue) and was really upset about the inadequate pain management and took it out on me (the easy target).
I try to not let things get to me anymore. I feel for the med student, I bet her intentions were to just share her experiences about social justice issues in society but went about it the wrong way. I just hope she manages to overcome this mistake and continue to help patients.
She states she purposely used incorrect force because a patient made a joke. This is unacceptable and actually assault in some jurisdiction. This is literal assault.
I hope she doesn’t get to carry on her practice
Part of all health professional code of conduct and practice is non malevolent
No one's at the doctor's for fun. They are usualy in distress so these sort of things happen to us because of that. Unless they don't cross certain line, all we have to do is just cry or laugh about itt. After all, they are the ones passin as aholes without any help, and the universe sees that. Thank God he apologized and owned their mistakes. That is something that rarely happens so feel yourself lucky in that regard. D:
social justice issues dont need to be done in your workplace.
This is terrifying that some people feel justified to use violence on people who don't share their views. We are now seeing this among medical students. We need a cultural revolution to put extremists back in their places.
Do you know how to read? Where did the Fourth Year ever state that she abused the patient? Have you ever tried to find a vein? I've been jabbed six or seven times or more in hospital; it's the way my veins are situated.
@@maxalberts2003 she was obviously gloating. This kind of extreme reactions to others’ opinions and views needs to stop.
@@LycanKai14 I am a liberal. And I don't believe you're in any position to be judging the patient as a transphobe. In fact, you shouldn't even be bringing politics into this. If you are a health care professional, do what you are trained to do or find another field. It might be too much for you if you can't handle your emotions. Medical, nursing, and PA schools need to start performing in-depth evaluations to ensure incoming students have the mental and emotional capacity to deal with stress. Psychologically, people who gloat over a "transphobe" getting harmed are perhaps not in the best position to be in the care of others.
I went to the ER a while back when I got fairly badly pinched in a work place accident. 3 hours into the wait was I bleeding badly from my hand so I stood up and both apologised for disturbing and asked for help cause my hand was leaking blood. got help and sat back down. 7 hours later and I was waiting for the doctor to look at the damage after a nurse had cleaned it did I hear someone in the ER saying "where the hell is everybody? I have been waiting for over an hour!" and they answered "the person that has been waiting the longest and is next in line has been waiting for 7 hours" and I instantly understood that it is my turn next.
so I always try to help hospital staff to be easy to deal with, not complaining, calm etc cause in return will I always get happy hospital workers helping me when it is my turn.
As always. I appreciate you for making these videos on topics like this. Regardless of how the patient acts, the Dr/Dr to be should never behave in a disrespectful manner…
Nah, this is dumb. If a cognitively-intact patient decks me and I can't leave the situation, I'm hitting back. If I can leave the situation, I'm pressing charges.
It's almost always situational. If a patient is being disrespectful, I'll gently ask that he/she stop and let them know what they said is a bit uncouth. Just because you're in a hospital doesn't mean you get to abuse doctors; likewise, doctors shouldn't just take it when it takes zero energy to gently say something is rude or unwelcome.
@@mangosteen4230 I understand what you're saying and yeah we shouldn't just take everything with no retaliation. However I do believe we should take the high ground and at least let them know what they did was inappropriate. At the end of the day, your life as a Dr will continue and that patient will be gone from the hospital so why bother potentially tarnishing your reputation (or having people cast doubt on it).
@@abelleh1 I agree. There's a difference between gently and professionally telling someone they're being rude/asking them to stop and getting aggressive with them. The former is always acceptable.
@@mangosteen4230 Exactly, at the end of the day, we got to be the better person. However that doesn’t mean we can’t be honest about the situation and so it’s more of a gray area that we have to tread as Drs
I was harmed by mammogram techs I believe purposely as my complaint netted a reply of 'that is what is supposed to happen.' That tendon tear will give me pain for rest of my life and the fear of mammogram is actually worse!
If she didn’t lead with that story about the pin and then went on to say I had to do the stick twice then nothing would’ve been thought further into it. So I would have to assume her comment on that basically is conveying that she wasn’t happy with the statement and lightly punished the patient for that.
Great point. If this was in good faith, two seperate posts could have been made. "A patient disrespected my pronouns today" and "I missed the vein again." I'm sure each of those posts would have gotten her the support she wanted. But putting them both together like that strongly implies she did it on purpose, and at the very least, she thinks the patient got what he deserved. Very unprofessional either way.
I disagree, she needs to be removed. Why is she even walking into a room with anything politically identifiable on her person? She was 100% wrong before she even started. If a patient can identify your politics during an interaction then you are conducting yourself in a deeply unprofessional manner, and in a manner that is so obviously incorrect as to call into question your fitness to be in that position in any capacity.
Ha, ha, it's not that hard to identify someone's political position.
It's a blood draw! Sheesh. Not an art line or even an IV insertion. Who cares? The poor choice was posting ambiguous comments about it on social media. A blood draw is not assault. And to suggest she be kicked out of school is absurd. I'm an RN and a Nurse Practitioner who worked most of my career in outpatient chemotherapy. If we got kicked out of an educational program or fired for every missed attempt at a blood draw or IV insertion, no one would have ever gotten their chemo because there would be no nurses left to administer it. The real lesson here: don't be antagonistic to the person holding the needle. Be quiet and respectful, and no one will get hurt 💉🩸
This isn’t about the blood draw itself, or whether she actually hurt the patient…it’s about the fact that she publicly exposed the details of a patient encounter for personal gain (to “look morally superior” online and to “get likes”). She put the “dopamine hit” you get when tweeting something ahead of common sense and professionalism.
This is unacceptable! And btw, is that a FIGS Leon scrub top in royal blue? That looks sick!
The only time this remotely happened to me as a patient was when I told my doctor and nurse that I was Gay in an office setting decades ago in Florida. This was at a time that the LGBTQI+ community was pressuring Gay people to come out to everyone, including medical care providers. The nurse had to do a blood draw, and she deliberately twisted the needle in my arm, causing agonizing pain, and terrible bruising. As I checked out, the doctor cracked the door, made eye contact with me, and laughed. You can rest assure that I did not make a follow-up appointment and found another doctor! Also, I never told medical workers (or anyone else) that I was Gay, although I am sure they they could guess!
That's horrible
I've never worn a pin, button or similar on my uniform that expresses my political or social leanings. Not that there is anything wrong with a pronoun pin but it's just not my style to put that out front. I have the same feeling about wearing a sticker on my uniform giving union support. Doesn't seem too professional and there is no value add for the patient.
Let me just throw this out there...if the student had XX chromosomes, that makes it a human female. In English, the pronouns for such biology is she/her. If she does not believe in this biology-or the language that denotes it-why is she in med school at all? If she’s rounding on patients, shouldn’t she have learned this in microbiology?
Everyone is so concerned with the theology of niceness and has left the truth in their dust. This is so unbelievably ridiculous!
Microbiology is the study of microorganisms such as bacteria, fungi, and such. A+ for the effort
There are people with XXY chromosomes, just saying.
As a patient that's a hard stick and who has worked in healthcare (but not the actual medical side) and who is a member of the LGBTQ+ community, I have had more than one time when I believe I was mistreated for that. At least three times, I know I was provided less than quality care because of what the provider said, such as that all gay men get HIV. I was chatting with an MA the other day who said that she uses a 21 or 23 butterfly for nice patients and an 18 for rude patients. Thankfully, she likes me, but that comment was definitely a red flag.
BTW, I reported those three incidents, and the only results were gaslighting by two doctors (in infectious disease) and then one urgent care PA who just no longer saw me anymore. They didn't share anything on social media, but it's important to remember that patients are humans too, just as medical providers are.
Either way, she made a major mistake. She should not be allowed to be a nurse ever
What kind of doctor is trying to ridicule people for having different views than them. Honestly that kind of narrow thinking doesn't belong in medicine. It should've been against university or hospital to wear a political badge like that in the hospital policy. Tell me you want attention without telling me
I was assaulted by a patient while still in nursing school. He was a drug addict, and for no reason I can discern, and with no warning, he punched me, hard, in my solar plexus. I'd never been punched before. I had to take a break to sit down, get my breath back, talk to my preceptor. I was also groped by a very young child who was already a sexual offender, and had another child threaten to kill me (this was working in the state mental hospital, also still in nursing school). I think I successfully avoided a couple of other attempts by elderly patients later on when working.
What she said in the apology is NOT what she said in the tweet. In the tweet, she said that SHE poked the patient twice. In her apology, she said this was an error, and that her supervisor poked the patient on the second attempt.
If no malicious intent was present, why did she distort the story? In her “apology,” why did she choose to lie?
"I missed his vein so he had to get stuck twice." Now where in that statement did she say that SHE picked the patient twice?
This happened to me when I laughed b/c I was nervous. I was DONATING blood & she moved the needle back & forth to give me the most pain possible. I have not donated blood since & will never do do again.
I was a new CNA and I was several months pregnant. One of my psych patients called me a, “little fat bitch.” 😭 I told her to watch her mouth when speaking to me as I hadn’t disrespected her and was only there to do my job. The charge nurse got wind of the encounter and told me the assignment would be switched. Sometimes you have to ignore and keep it pushing. At the end of the day, you have a job/task to complete…Don’t let them get to you like that!
Patient say things I don’t agree with all the time. I ignore it and do my job because that’s what you do
Use it as a learning point, whether intended or not. The biggest point is people should realize everything we wear or display is open to interpretation/ criticism by others seeing it. Their disrespect isn't appropriate, but you will receive it and should consider that prior to displaying whatever the message is. Overall, this isn't a big deal. The posters that said they wouldn't go to Wake and all of that are hypocrites. We've all done unprofessional things, vented or reacted in an inopportune way before. This is meager. It is a small flag for later at best, but the whole " would never use X as a doctor or X system as a HC system" is laughable. The unrealistic expectations that people have to think any of us (physician, nurse, cafeteria worker, etc.) are infallible is a reason physician suicide is so high, retention is so low and litigation is so frequent.
Lastly, very few patients fit the delirium explanation. Most are just misbehaving, similar to when intoxicated. Most can control themselves but choose not to.
I guess they’re going to pretend that she didn’t write those two things together in a single post. I think she should’ve got canned. And I also think if you don’t have anything nice to say, like the patient, keep it to yourself. But I believe that everyone deserves A caring healthcare provider. These are the type of people that later go on to do horrible things to people that are horrible because they’re dying or they’re suffering or they’re in pain. If someone shows you who they are, believe them
baloney, why would she even mention the blood draw. It was irrelevant to the pin unless the 2 draws were intentional.
Well said! Dr. Cellini.
Her apology is empty. Her post reflects her personal ethic and she doesn't appear to have the depth of character required. Gender confusion is a symptom of deeper issues and no one wants an emotionally fragile person as a physician.
They taught me to not to this in med school.
I'm more inclined to belive that she messed up the first poke and differed it to her superior to cover her but. The only other alternative that I would accept was that she did in fact mess up the first attempt and posted a misleading social media post after the fact to make it seem like she "got back at a bigot" for social points.
In both cases this show a student that is incredibly immature and should reexamine why they are going into healthcare. There is never any reason to ever harm a patient (even if a little). That takes away from the trust between provider and patient that is the foundation of medicine. There is also no reason to ever post misleading social media posts to farm "street cred, karma, upvotes, likes, ect" because it has the potential for eroding the trust between healthcare workers and patients. The last few years have worn away at much of the trust people in general have for healthcare workers (for a variety of reasons). Currently patients are fatigued and require patients and understanding. We need to present a united front as healthcare workers to reinforce the idea that we are here to help patients and to do nothing else.
Can you do a video about ports by chance like thing you can and can't do if there is anything..I'm getting a port put in tomorrow
The way she worded this in a tweet is obviously going to be interpreted as malicious by most people, like if I would interpret it nicely without all the context it's like oh was it because he laughed this movement or something so she accidentally jabbed him wrong. Anyway it's pretty dumb to put it in social media, let's say patient sees this and interpret it as oh you did that on purpose, that is not going to make anything better.
I am currently in med school in Oklahoma and we had an entire lecture alone that talked about social media and being careful with it. They even presented some cases that got blown up like this one. That lecture was even on our test.
Dealing with difficult patience is part of the job. Dealing with violent behavior is not "part of the job". Please don't normalize this.
Also, I will say if I’m upset it’s harder for me to get blood or a IVC placed anyway. She definitely should t have posted about this, but we miss veins all the time, even when I was a veterinary technician, we missed often
Doc I think your series is great, and your destiny is television before you know it. but I have to tell you there's an elephant in the room. Why does she have to wear the pin you know that's not gonna sit well with certain people to begin with and she's gonna wear it then she's going to be able to handle commentary graciously, and understand where that's coming from. She's not gonna be able to do that. She's not gonna be able to separate herself from that. The school would be afraid to make a rule prohibiting from wearing that, but but they could because it's a private university. That was the problem. That was the catalyst and then she couldn't deal with her emotional issues and squelch whatever attitude she was giving him. So really, I think healthcare workers should present as neutral. What do you think about that?
One day when working as an ER nurse I had to start an IV for a first dose of home antibiotics. I put on the tourniquet and started tapping for veins. I had a couple of possibilities, so I said “Eeny Meeny Miney Mo…”. The patient continued with the original rhyme: “Catch a n*gger by the toe.” This… how shall I put it… elderly caucasian rural gentleman… perhaps didn’t realize what he was saying or to whom he was saying it. I could have reached for the 16G needle instead of the smaller one, but I chose not to assault my patient…
🙄
Dude. I’m an ED nurse in south Florida. I have heard some of the most racist shit come out of old southern rural white folks mouths over the years. It just slips out and they literally 9/10 times have no clue that they are being racist. Like my patient that called the little brown nuts in a pack of mixed nuts “ni#%€r toes”. My coworkers and I literally jaws dropped as there was multiple brothers within earshot and we were in a hallway. Old dude just looks at us and says “what?”
We go high when they go low. I treat people how I want to be treated even when they treat me like shit. I don’t stoop for anyone! 💜
That’s how the nursery rhyme goes
I don’t understand why you started the rhyme when you find it so offensive
I mean I understand why you find it offensive I think it’s offensive to
So why start reciting it
that’s the bit I don’t understand
And while I fully fully know there is often a choice factor in which vein to use for the cannula A patient may not necessarily know that
Enie Meanie Mineie Mo does not install confidence
Seriously I think if somebody said this to me I’d be like if you can’t make a sound professional decision please get somebody who can
Also we are discussing a personal conversation you had with a patient on social media not a good thing to do unless if you’re trying to be vindictive
I’ll stop now and wish you all the best in your career
@@louisejeffries7155 that’s not the right word in the original rhyme. It’s actually catch a “tiger “ by the toe. Just saying
I'm a pharmacy tech & once had a patient throw a prescription bottle at me because "the wrong doctor" prescribed their drug (not the wrong drug... it was the wrong doctor. A covering provider. The drug, strength, quantity, sig was all correct. But the wrong doctor prescribed & that was my fault for some reason?)
The best part is that we have bulletproof glass windows so she threw the bottle at me & it bounced back & hit her in the forehead 🤣
Now that’s justice lol
I think that happened to a guy trying to break into a store's shatter-proof window with a brick at least once. The police found him out cold on he pavement when the alarm went off.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂☠️💀
AHAHHAHAHA I'm so sorry man.
I was recently spit on by an older combative patient in the ER and had to draw his blood afterwards for exposure labs. Fishing or missing the vein intentionally never crossed my mind, even though I was pissed. That sounds psychopathic.
Honestly, when I first read the tweet, I just tought it was an usual med student mistake, which she and her school confirmed afterwards. It still happens to me sometimes, but only in difficult patients since I'm not a pro nor a nurse, only a general physitian. They way she phrased it, or the fact she pointed it out at the end after first saying how rude the patient was, was her mistake. It was very open to misinterpretation, specially if you are not aware how things work when a med student is given blood draw duty.
Yes, I read it that she was not intentionally harming or malicious. It was an accident, which she could not help herself to be sorry for. It was lunacy to tweet about it.
I had a med student attempt an IV before one of my surgeries 3 times. I was about to allow him to try a 4th time, when the nurse stopped him. She made him watch while she set up the IV line on the first attempt.
I’ve had nurses take 5-6 tries to get an IV in before surgery because I was so dehydrated
Yep, that's how it usually goes like. Even I, as a general physitian, stop after my 2nd or 3rd attempt since I don't want my patient to feel more uncomfortable than they already are. Usually happens with very dehydrated patients or with weird veins.
Has also happened to me as a patient and I'm just like "whatever".
I respectfully disagree with “we just go along with our jobs.” I had a patient sexually harass me as a resident and I stopped seeing that patient, told my attending, and we had a male physician see that patient going forward. They still received the same care, absolutely. But letting abuse just go unreported and “going all with your day” is the way that abuse gets perpetuated again.
Well with all due respect Della, and I'm sorry that happened to you, but you went about it the correct way.
What happened to you was terrible. This student did not experience anything remotely similar to what you did. I’m sorry you had to go through that.
@@2Bad4YOUuu Thank you. I should qualify: I 100% don’t agree with and am not defending that student in anyway. If it was a joke: it was utterly unprofessional and if it wasn’t then it was patient harm and absolutely not the right way to respond to conflict. I was mostly just adding my opinion onto the state of healthcare worker harm, less so this specific scenario!
@@mariopellegrino7661 Thank you. I’m definitely not defending them or their actions in anyway! They either made a very unprofessional joke, or harmed a patient on the basis of an ideological dispute, and both those are something they need remediation in. More so I was just offering my opinion on the idea of healthcare worker abuse/harm in general, and that I disagree with his statement that if (true harm) does occur we should just “go along with our jobs.” There is a proper reporting system in place and we need to avail of that.
You are right, healthcare workers shouldn't put with abuse. We have a hard job and deserve respect.
I would never in my whole life publicly admit to harming a patient even if someone held a gun on my head
You should never intentionally harm a patient let alone admit to doing it.
@@db6571 true but even if you do in the heat of the moment how can you feel good about it to go and post it on social media…
First do no harm. It’s sad that one bad experience with a provider can jade every interaction with future providers.
she probably thought she was being funny.
Yes, but she was trying to score points with the "internet" so of course she did.
To be honest, I've never been one to post much on social media anyway, but as a medical student and resident I've always been especially careful to post anything remotely related to work. People don't understand that everything you say is online forever, and someone can and will find it. Just takes some thought before you post.
I was a CNA who worked with severe-profoundly intellectually disabled psych patients as well as those deemed "criminally insane" and not competent to stand trial. Now I work at a standard acute care hospital.
I've been punched, spat on, bitten numerous times, scratched, fondled, threatened, had feces-soaked linens thrown at me. *Just about anything that COULD happen, has.*
The expectations certainly vary from situation to situation, but overall...there needs to be exponentially more public education regarding healthcare services.
So many people waltz into a hospital or ED and expect a 5-star hotel treatment, or expect you to cater to their every whim like a servant.
Healthcare professionals are here to TREAT your medical conditions, not worship the ground you walk on. We need to normalize the humane treatment of medical staff, because so many of us are routinely abused, and it genuinely *shouldn't* be part of the job.
Though like I said, situations differ and there are exceptions to what is expected, of course. But it's often an entitlement issue, and not an issue that stems directly from someone's diagnoses (unlike the psych patients I've worked with, who had no agency and whose behaviors were thus understandable)
Social media has harmed so many careers and yet there are few places that tell you to avoid it. Having no account is best. Having a silent account works. If you care about your career, stay away from it. All it takes if for one person to twist your words and your life can change forever
"You have been Publicly Shamed" by Jon Ronson
I have a fake account and can say whatever I want
I was talking to a nurse I know who said she gave an injection bad because she was pissed off at the patient. I have patients treat me like shit all the time but I would never treat them different.
I am a CT/XR tech, female and short (4'9"). A few years ago I was starting an IV on a male patient. As I positioned the patient's arm I did not realize where his hand was at. As I was less than an inch from inserting the IV, I feel his hand grab my breast. I stopped looked at him, released compression and walked off. I got another tech to start his IV. At no time did I do anything to the patient although the thought of getting a 14g for his IV did cross my mind.
This should've been reported nonetheless. Just because we're healthcare professionals doesn't mean we have no boundaries & are completely obligated to the patient. This was molestation.
@@medicostudy101 It was reported and an incident report was completed.
I can tell you, I was stuck in a drinking problem.. got admitted and apparently tried to fight every single doc and nurse. I made sure to get everyone’s names so I could apologize when I was stable. In the right state of mind, I wouldn’t hurt a fly. Wake is wild though. I go to unc now, thank god. Thank you for helping us buddy. Love your videos.
Hope you're doing better. ❤️
@@pamyuhnke8143 Thank you! Doing much better, dropped everything I was doing, checked in to rehab until I knew I was good.. living in a sober home now, attending my classes and whatnot. Enjoy your week! :)
Glad I did med school during the time of MySpace. (Hi Tom!) 😂 A time when you're allowed to make mistakes without the whole world weighing in. You just hit 'play' on your emo playlist.
As a nursing student- these interactions happen every single day all day long to nurses. Luckily I’ve had angel patients bc I don’t have as many as a licensed nurse- but I’ve seen nurses get yelled at, stuff thrown at, made fun of and more.
@Denise King one time I was on a med surg floor and this woman was cussing a nurse out and the nurse left the room. We asked what was going on and she said “I literally brought her the pain meds she wanted and she “fired” me and cussed me out”. 😂 she was laughing but it sucks to deal with that crap
No to mention having excrement thrown at you.
Humans are crue sometimesl, specially when they're either not in a good state of mind, or in a stressful situation such as an ER. It can happen. And if they have the superpower of being anything phobic as a trait, it just gets worse.
I can still empathize with needing to vent about the ridiculous shit patients put us through sometimes. Tho posting it online (and ESPECIALLY on twitter) was a dumb fucking mistake. Still, people on tiwtter jumping the gun to fit their narrative without extra info are as much of a problem imo.
whether she did anything intentionally wrong or not she implied that either she did, or that she believed the patient deserved it, even if it wasn't on purpose. In both cases she displayed horrible judgement and her posting this publicly even further demonstrates horrible judgement. It has nothing to do with social media. She doesn't have many angles for any defense here other than being completely unqualified, mentally, for this role, unfortunately.
This!
Excellent comment.
Just because she has certain beliefs that seem to be unethical that doesn't mean she is unqualified at what she does. That means she is a human, and like us has opinions
She just shouldn't share her opinions on social media because of people like you that get hurt over no reason
@@josephdahdouh2725 nah she should share because it outs her for who she is. A criminal just like you
I posted a joke tweet reply to a friend about how pee is stored in the balls once and got a lecture from the friend about how tweets can wreck your rep in med. Then this happened like a week later. While it kinda sucks that we can't be completely ourselves sometimes, at the same time (with admitting to harming patients an obvious outlier), I get how our actions are a reflection of the school too. Still sucks that we're effectively paying 300k to inadvertently become minor public figures.
Who says you can't completely be yourself, she inadvertently lied for no reason. You can be yourself online as long it does not impede others' freedom and harms others. This is not about being yourself, it is about purposely lying to get attention as a student trying to become a professional. You choose to be a minor public figure; there are plenty of public figures who are professionals who are making an impact in this world that did not have to make a post about harming a patient, client, or customer. If you think you're going to be free from scrutiny, quit becoming a doctor or any other profession.
@@appollo1826 I chose to go to med school; I didn't choose to have my professional life be put in a position where it can be harmed by harmless shitposts on a social media site that reflect nothing about my professional capacity. It's ludicrous that joking about pee being stored in the balls (a medical fact, btw) could potentially lead to me losing my job.
I even specified that this situation is obviously extreme and not directly related to my chief complaint. What she did was extremely wrong. But that doesn't mean the infringement on my right to say pee is stored in the balls is right.
Make a finsta/fake twitter without any association with you or your accounts
There are professions where you have to be professional even when confronted with misbehaving clients. Would you be ok with a cop who took offense to something mean a suspect said to him and proceeded to gratuitously assault the suspect? Would you be ok with a lawyer throwing the case of a client who is difficult with them, sending that client to jail? If you're not ok with those things, then the standard shouldn't be different for healthcare professionals, who also have people's lives and wellbeing in their hands.
On the other hand, I'm always as nice as possible to healthcare professionals, lawyers, and cops. I know the risk I'd run to be even slightly mean or disrespectful. Even if they should remain professional, people are vindictive, and as a client you should never be tempting your fate...
I can only assume those supporting this nurse’s actions are ok with disgruntled hospitality workers spitting in their food.
Why was she wearing such a dumb pin? She was asking for trouble with that pin. He just said out loud what most people think.
This med student still has so much to learn from life, especially learning to THINK
And leave political pins at home.
When I was a student nurse, a patient slapped me in the face so hard that my glasses flew across the room. I still would have never purposely hurt them or anyone. Get out of the room, ask for someone else to step in.
Why did the patient slap u?
@@vivek27789 the patient had hidden pills and was taking handfuls of them trying to commit suicide on the psych floor. I was trying to stop them.
@@mariannelafrance5079 Damn 😳
Omg. I was a dialysis technician a while back and my new boss had to run some blood work for our company, because we dealt with blood. My boss was a very experienced nurse and it took her 8 tries to get blood out of my veins!! Like, that’s all we did! We drew blood, all day and it was still a challenge for because of my particular veins.
Sensationalizing and exaggerating a patient encounter for hits on social media was a mistake for sure. Med students today do commonly have orientation and/or classes regarding policies on social media as well as other matters of conduct. There are additional certifications, internships, and degrees in this area. None of that is going to replace a little common sense. I don't think they need additional training and classes, they simply need to respect the ethical boundaries already established, they are published after all. I think what we are seeing is a cultural evolution that is much more tolerant of loose ethics as well as intolerance of any standards or expectations that uphold professional conduct. I think it is pervasive. The new "tolerance" is actually thinly veiled intolerance.
Our employers are extremely tolerant of "loose ethics". I have seen coworkers all over social media in the nurses' stations on their work desktops!! I have worked with MDs who were having an affair in the break room and everyone ignored it! Health care workers know they can't get fired for this.
@@MNP208 Can't get fired for this? I have seen people fired. Are you speaking in hyperbole?
I won't let my own kids choose healthcare as a career. We are expected to put up with so much verbal and physical abuse. As a MD, your interactions are more limited. As RNs, we have to spend a lot of time with these patients. We do have our share of demented patients, but I find that most patients know darn well EXACTLY what they are doing. We wonder why turnover is so high in the nursing profession. We are expected to lie back and assume our role as punching bags.
Yes, unfortunately most of them are fully cognizant and autonomous and *still choose* to be abusive towards staff. It's such a shame
Sure there will be instances of verbal and physical abuse but I don't think it would be a reason to avoid an otherwise wonderful career choice.
@@tedreid1035 You are partially correct. There are MANY other reasons to avoid it!
@@MNP208 There are many professions who deal with angry, assaultive people on a daily basis. It’s not just nurses. I’ve been bit, hit, hit on, spit on, threatened both physically and verbally. Those instances were difficult but did not punctuate every hour of my daily work.
@@tedreid1035 And this makes it ok?
The most important thing is she should not have treated the patient like this. Not everyone in your place of work, college, neighborhood, place of worship is going to agree with you. I’m concerned about someone behaving like this who is entering a profession of trust.
It seems like the only guidance that med students need regarding social media is: Don't do it.
This med student (and all providers) needs to keep her socio-political opinions to herself at the hospital. Wearing a "pronoun pin" at work is essentially asking for a debate with conservative patients and coworkers. Why do it? Would she be allowed to wear a Biden pin or a Trump pin?
And, the fact that she is strident enough in her views to wear the pin casts doubt on her report that she "discussed her views calmly" with the patient. And, IMO she doesn't get the benefit of the doubt that the crying emoji was meant sincerely. Whether she intentionally missed the vein or not, she didn't seem to upset that the patient had to be stuck again.
I respectfully disagree with your statement about wearing a pronoun pin at work. Many hospitals and facilities have pronoun pins or stickers to put on badges so that people can be treated with basic respect and dignity by having the right pronouns used to refer to them. It's the same as having a name tag to identify you.
The med student was wearing a pin that seems intended to provoke comments. They better be what she wants to hear?
Even if she didn't intend to miss, her crying face emoji and the context of mentioning the two pokes clearly showed that she felt the patient deserved to be poked twice. I wouldn't give the benefit of the doubt when sarcastic malice is on display in the tweet.
I think this is a lesson that all people can learn from. Medical students and doctors of course can learn how to handle and cope with negative patient reactions. I don’t think negative interactions should never be talked about on social media. They would be a good way to educate the public on they should or shouldn’t act under the care of a medical professional. The flip side to that is the patients perspective. I was in the hospital for 5 days after I had two spinal surgeries in one day, one of which was a spinal fusion. I was only 21 at the time and was injured while I was in the service. The hospital staff turned the sign on alerting my family I was out of surgery before I even got settled into my room. My family came rushing in only to see me screaming and crying in pain because well I just had part of my sign removed and screwed back together. The nurse made a negative comment to my family and I responded angrily by calling her a c$nt. Looking back now, I know I never meant that and was simply not in a great mental state from pain, Anesthesia, and pain killers. I think some negative interactions like that are unavoidable and people don’t really mean them. Unfortunately, you’re seeing people on some of the worst days of their lives, which brings out the worst in them. But we can still use platforms like this to educate the public and of course educate and inspire future doctors on how to handle these things and to lean on and support one another after they happen.
Providers are put in a microscope for things they do, however, when the patient is the aggressor everything is forgiven. Patients then feel entitled to treat healthcare professionals like 💩. There should be rules in a hospital or facility. If you mistreat a healthcare provider multiple times you should face consequences (not stabbing with a needle but more like financial penalties)
You are not the victim in this situation no matter if you think you are.
This concerns me as a premed.
Weve had parents push nurses, curse at us, call us incompetent, throw shit filled diapers etc. I work in a nicu. They are very stressed and sometimes parents resort to such behavior. Never have i ever thought of retaliating. We just take it to management which is what she should of did.
Edit: okay maybe she didnt retaliate but i dont know if i believe that.
As a D list medtwitter guy - I’ve seen lots of folks forget that they’re in a “professional school”… they can get in serious trouble!
my worst ecperience as a female medical intern was a patient hitting on me and not understanding the hint that i wasn't comfortable
ugh this happens way too often. they confuse kindness with flirting. don't see that we are just professionals doing our work. and even after, they just keep being utterly rude.
I think I'm the odd one out. She was venting. I will never jump to conclusions in regards to a tweet. Sometimes people post a status when upset, half asleep etc. Plus people are always growing. Why take away a whole great career? She should post to reddit anonymously if she needs to vent. Of course don't cross that line of telling details to have someone figure out who people are in your story or well, you.
I think this student is not cut out to be in health care. I have had patients call me all sorts of things and insult me and after I defuse the situation they apologize for their rude behavior and I go on as if nothing ever happened. If you don't have thick skin in this industry you will have a very short career. Even the INSINUATION that you have not given a patient the absolute best possible care is highly problematic for me. If this student thinks that being misgendered is a big deal, they have no idea what sort of pain they are in for in healthcare.
I am a very hard to get blood from, its been that way all my life. When i was in septic shock from flesh eating bacteria, i was stuck over 22 times in one setting, after i told my nurse that she had to get anther nurse after the 6th stick, she was hatefull to me and blamed me she kept blowing my viens....several times I think it was on purpuse, and said if you dont shut up i will stick you again! I eventually told her supervisers! 22 times is way to many times and had to be done by ultrasound by the anesthesiologist then rushed to surgery!
Wow a fourth year too? All those years wasted what a shame I don’t think she’ll have another chance at becoming a physician.
The age of professionalism is gone they died out we now have entitled punks who bring their tantrums and attitude to work. My generation our first thing our parents said is don’t bring your outside bullshit to work period
The student had an ideological agenda and a huge "chip on the shoulder" about anyone non compliant about that agenda. The tweet was a misjudgment that probably will not be repeated, but the attitude is dangerous.
Perhaps she/he/they/them shouldn’t have been wearing a pin like that to begin with. They were asking for it!
Why was she wearing the button? Was it authorized by the hospital? It appears she wanted the attention, she received it and did something totally inappropriate
Yes this patient was rude. (But there are no other pronouns then she/her & him/her technically he’s right. The doctor is also in the wrong.
Dr. Cellini is right. Why even bring up the pronoun pin, especially now, when people have such strongly held beliefs about these pronouns. This should not have been an issue. The student should have navigated the conversation away from the pronoun pin. Also, should pronoun pins be worn on the job?
Because trans patients deserve to feel like they're in a safe environment when the world at large is decidedly not safe for them? A doctor should prioritize making everyone feel safe. A pronoun pin hurts nobody and makes nobody feel unsafe. It's immaturity that's hurting the baby-bitches who'd moan about an enamel pin, not the pin itself. If you want doctors to cater to anti-trans patients exclusively, should POC doctors start catering to racists too by painting themselves white?
Because how ridiculous they make you no
No. The logic leads us to sharing our little political opinions in a work place. Not something we should make a habit of.
Honestly people want to announce their allyship. However, if providers treat all patients respectfully those pins would not be necessary.
@@stephens2663 Gender isn't political, it's what a person is. You make it political because you care too much about your opinions on how someone with a dick should and shouldn't act.
Online, I go buy the "Grandmother's Rule," which means if it won't pass by my grandmother, or I wouldn't shout it from the rooftops, it doesn't go online.
The fact that she posted the pronoun-pin interaction together with "I missed a vein" makes it sound like they are related events.
Wake Forest/Baptist Hospital in Winston-Salem NC is a training hospital. Having once been a resident of that city, I know what a blessing it was to have a teaching hospital so close. They saved my Mother's life, treated me for anaphylaxis the first time I needed to be intubated following a bee sting. I have nothing but respect for the Wake Forest School of Medicine.
We miss IVs or blood draws all the time lol.
Correct. Lol
I find it interesting that a person can assault a teacher, a cashier, a cop, or salesperson and they can defend themselves. But if a person assaults a medical precessional, you better not hit them back or you’re in deep trouble. 😬 I just find that all interesting. 🤔 (Just speaking in general, not referencing this situation)
I guess it speaks to the unique gravity of the profession
I think 2:35 kinda captures it; it's still NO excuse for a patient to act out, but there are occasions where some patients are not in control of what they say or do, and a medical setting is likely the only place that could help them regain control of their actions. The same can't 100% be said for any other profession.
I wore my brand new dark green scrubs to the psych floor as a Med student one day and one of the patients yelled out: Yo Doctor!!! You look like a big Effing booger. I laughed so hard I sprayed coffee out my nose. 😅😂🤣
America, you take my breath away with this woke nonsense.
I don't publicly share my medical school online. A tiny bit of foresight shows how that could easily BACKFIRE
That’s why i rather be anonymous and not share information about my uni or the hospital i work in. In that way i can tweet whatever I want without any huge consequence. It’s easier to get more followers if people know more infos about you but the at the same time you have to censure yourself if you don’t want your attendings hear about your weird tweets.
I had the worse experience with several ER docs, until they realize that I am a PA and suddenly they get rid of their "god complex". Because or a chronic illness I sometimes have to go to ER to get IV fluids and k+. The hospital flagged my records to the staff to be on best behavior. (Shouldn't you do your best with all patients) also my daughter is one of best malpractice attorneys in state of Georgia. The hospital has been made aware. 😁
Lol “god complex” hm? 🤭
It is absolutely difficult to gain venous access for certain patients, even for those who are much more qualified. This is especially true in the elderly, morbidly obese, paediatric or others with associated co-morbidities. Believe it or not, we learn from our mistakes, taking bloods is no exception.
I strongly believe that the student did not intentionally hurt the patient.
It may be inappropriate how the student took it to social media resulting in this investigation, but I believe the social media's response is much more malicious and unforgivable.
Granted these people most likely have zero medical knowledge, but they may have just prevented the student from continue studying, and discouraged many more to become a doctor.
Why the hell is anyone posting healthcare interactions to social media? Especially if they're new? The family knows who you are. You're going to be dealing with serious criminals at times. Someone who doesn't like you is a drop in the bucket.
This new generation needs to set aside their personal beliefs and feels and their profession ones. I feel like this med student definitely stuck this patient twice on purpose.
_i have gotten poked like 20 times_
_cuz they cant get my vein_ 🙃
Me too! Being a type one diabetic sucks! 🤣 I always try to be chill about it, though. They're the ones that have to do all the work. All I have to do is lie there. And they really are doing their best. Not their fault my veins suck.
That med stud was a story teller and not a professional.
As a young nurse, I was kicked in the stomach by an elderly man who had dementia. If I remember right there was someone with me. I happened to be pregnant at the time. I had to be sent to ER to be sure I was fine. I was, but they asked me if I wanted to go home. I knew my coworkers would have had to take on my patients. So I stayed.
I feel ur pain ive Been Kicked...punch...bit.
I used to be in a Medical Laboratory Science program and in one of my classes i had to draw blood. Everyone misses the vein when they first start. We r not born professionals. I dont think she missed on purpose, but she should have asked someone if it was good to post it
Many times a patient hurting a caregiver cannot be helped because of cognition issues; non-maleficence (doing no harm) and beneficence (doing good) are ethical expectations. Questions like that will be on Board certification and are legal expectations.
Patient kept calling us "b*tch"
The charge nurse corrected the patient And said "it's nurse b*tch, I've earned these letters. "