@Rachel Southard keep it up. I agree, not enough people are talking about high tuitions it’s disgusting honestly. Why burden our future generations with financial burdens.
Its crazy how expensive medical school is in the US. In Canada is it much more reasonable. The question is who is profiting from this? I doubt its the physicians actually providing the preceptoring and the teaching.
My med school tuition has gone up 10% in 3 years. They raise it every year. I reached out to administration for a break down on the expenses and they never emailed me back.
I’d love to see a doc or med student sit down with a dean of a med school to break down what is the tuition is going towards and what everything actually costs. Maybe this would help answer the question of why tuition keeps going up… especially in the midst of a pandemic 😳 thank you for raising awareness about this topic!
Much of it can be attributed to a combination of the federal government guaranteeing loans to cover tuition and the cap on medical graduates that keeps physician supply artificially low, in order to allow the American Medical Association to inflate their (the physicians) salaries. As a result, the government guarantees the loans no matter the cost, therefore medical schools and colleges have a perverse incentive to raise prices since there’s no cap on the amount that they can charge. Combined with limited competition as far as the number of medical schools, plus the high demand for physicians and the grossly inflated salaries that they get paid as a result of a cap on supply that further impedes competition, and you have recipe for sky high tuition costs and graduate physicians with crippling debt, that continues to increase each year.
Inflate their salaries? They’re literally trying to make them get paid less, I think a 10% deduction of what they make. Across the board. Because of a new law.
Yeah I think a lot of people don’t realize that mer students commonly use their student loans to pay for somewhere to live, utilities and even food because they can’t work during a lot of the schooling
Undergrad and Med School tuition now is absolutely insane! I'm told the reason they keep raising tuition is because they can and we keep paying for it! I was exactly in her position when I finished fellowship. My total loan amount was the same as my gross starting rad salary. I decided to live like a resident for 2 years, and I was able to pay back my entire loan in 2 years. It was totally worth it for me.
My dad went to an in State medical School back in the 1970's. He paid $300 per semester. It blows my mind. He would pay for the whole year of college by working for the post office during the summer.
This is why I’m thankful for my DO school. As an instate DO student, my tuition is about 26,000 and my GI bill will be covering 3 years out of the 4, so that will definitely be helpful. But schools should NEVER be this expensive. It’s insane.
@@janetyingy it takes longer than you think. Plus there’s loans that have interest, so you could pay but have the amount increase. There’s different kinds, and depending on speciality it might not be that simple.
the problem also is too many people are worried about the “college experience” rather than the studies themselves. we aren’t given enough time to figure out what we want to do, and there’s too much pressure to go to college. the stigma around not going is alarming. my boyfriend decided not to go to college and it was as if he abandoned some of his family members by their reactions. ITS OKAY TO NOT GO TO COLLEGE. they almost manipulated him into going and i had to continuously tell him i’d rather him not go and just be surrounded by the stigma for a year or two than go, be miserable, and probably be in debt.
It makes 0 sense to go to college if you don't have a desire to go or an idea of what you want to do. And not that he has to go (because he doesn't) but him not wanted to go now doesn't mean he won't want to in 5 years and that'd be way better than going into debt for a degree you don't even want and waiting to get something you do want.
This has 0 to do with the actual cost of education. I don't know why Americans in particular seem to villainize higher education because they let it become expensive.
@@Anthony-db7cs First of all, it is expensive generally speak and on top of that many college degrees are just not simply worth pursuing as the return in investment can be low.
Its funny how people say "pennies during residency." Ive always thought that was funny because I never thought 60k+ was pennies. And before you say something about 80hr/wk, most specialties don't work 80hrs/wk. Surgical specialties dont respect the 80 hr rule but for the rest of the medical specialties no one really does that. 60-65K a year for a few years is decent but everyone makes it sound like residents are working 100hr/wk making 30k/yr lmao
I recall recently watching a YT channel on economics (I forget which one) that claimed since 1980 the average American salary increased by 225% but college tuition increased by 1200%. They blamed most of it on the schools milking the government backed student loan programs.
Without getting all political, apparently it was all Ron Reagan’s idea. He started this back when he was governor of CA. CA was one of the first states that had the whole for-profit universities in America. He thought it was a good idea to privatize our education system. When he became president, he successfully moved us away from government funded colleges.
I'm fortunate that I only have 20k in student debt. I went to a community college for 2 years that I was able to cash flow because it was so cheap, so my 20k in loans was to cover the final 2 years at a public university. I wouldn't be surprised if eventually the med schools topped out exactly at the limit of what you can take out in federal loans, it'll be the craziest coincidence. tbh, the catastrophic rise in tuition costs is most likely driven by the availability of federally backed loans. If you look back over the trajectory of tuition costs across time, they didn't start rising fast until after the federal student loan system was implemented. Prior to that, you had more state funding for colleges, as well as a natural market limitation to what schools could charge, since students would have had to take out private loans if they were too high, and most private loans back then were incredibly difficult to get. They can charge as much as they do precisely because the federal government will cover it. If the government said no, they'd have to start trimming the fat real quick and make their schools significantly more affordable.
Been talking about this issue for years (college in general) that the easy access to student loans has given colleges the ability to inflate their costs. They add administrators, they make their buildings and greens "experience centers" and lost the focus on educating. Every student now has a $50-100k price on their head and schools like Harvard jack up the price in order to get exclusivity. Rachel brings up some really great points that they got rid of labs, and put their lecture on-line and the prices still increased. Even if government paid college isnt a thing, there needs to be some expectations (pressure) on the school before they are eligible for student loans.
Great Video! Solid points school tuition should be capped or monitored. That’s just insanity. Takes “More money more problems” to a whole different meaning
Thanks Dr C for coming back. Keep up the great work that you do on your channel. Law school, less resource intensive than medical education, presents the same financial challenges for its students and graduates. Most law students do not think about or appreciate that eventually they will be paying monthly for the condo on the lake that they will never occupy. Finally, I'm an old time xray tech. I really miss your introduction that featured the old exposure sounds.....techs these days have it so easy by comparison.......retakes take just seconds. When I worked, it was minutes.......
Respectfully, disagree. Financial challenges for a law school education are also unjustifiable, but to a much lesser extreme. Four years of med school, three years of law school. Residents and fellows make a small salary (and work ridiculous hours), while lawyers earn much larger salaries upon graduation. Easier to start paying back their (smaller) loans.
Any video on happy ending like The way to go is loan forgiveness - more competition to get a non-for profit job now a day- and those computer screens remind me of being in Tesla 😅
I’ve followed Rachel for some time. I’m excited to hear what you have to say about this, especially with your finance background. Certainly made me clutch my White Coat Investor book closer.
Wow this is THE TOPIC that barely gets discussed and brought up to the right audience!!! Overall college / university education is the most shittiest rip off ever especially them damn fees per course universities squeeze in without any explanation!!! I am also not sure who is open to hear it or who is the right govt/agency/org that can do anything about it!!!
It’s a Racket. They make it almost impossible for foreign schools which charge way less then state side schools to get accredited and for students to get student loans even though they have the exact standards curriculum and this system will crash soon since people are wisening up. I’m a Nurse and for a BSN degree in California it costs $100-125k in a private school and public it’s way less but it’s lottery based with 2 year backlog and on top of that if you want to go out of state then program has to be accredited by California board of Nurses.
I wonder if a class action lawsuit would force a change since it’s a monopoly/racket/ criminal enterprise, and Rico statue applies to all of the system from the schools banks to the states.
On one hand, medical school shouldn't be that expensive. On the other, physicians in the US are the highest paid in the world. $350k is hardly anything for most specialties if you avoid a lavish lifestyle for a few years.
It is important to remember that most med students are not getting their medical knowledge from in class lectures but online lectures like Lecturio and online question banks like UWorld which means that high quality medical knowledge is available to everyone, everywhere in the world. Finding high quality medical education in English in WHO approved schools in Ireland, and Eastern Europe (Poland and Hungary) should be seriously considered.
I wanted to go to med school (and still do) but also was interested in dental school, which I found was even more expensive on average. Also DO schools vs MD are more expensive, for the few DO schools im looking at. Such a deterrent to potentially amazing doctors to have lifelong debt.
I am an MBA with a 150k in student loans, it doubled with interest upon interest (originally owed 45k for undergrad and 26k for Grad). I will be working a second job, after my 9-5 to pay off my student loans. I signed up for IBRP so I might qualify for the Public Service Forgiveness program, not to be confused with the Biden forgiveness plan. I feel the pain.
As a physician that finish residency it is extremely difficult to pay those especially with high interests at 7-8%. This is what is driving the high cost of health care in America. Ppl blame the doctors that invest this money but they don't blame the universities.
Just choose a different job if u can’t make it into a speciality. Most Medical doctors nowadays only kill people by indiscriminately administering the clot shot anyways.
In the Netherlands we don’t have student debt because of tuition. We have student debt because the students borrow money to have a chill life en pay for their social activities.
I wish the government would for medicine what they do for warmongering. Early medical training, free medical school with subsidized housing, a living stipend, and then deployment for 4 years after residency ends. Imagine how much less burnout.
If you completely cut universities' government funding and their tax exempt organization status. You'll see universities dropping tuition costs real fast
yeah this is a major shortocming of the US medical system. my brother was lucky and got 500k dismissed through the 1-0-year loan forgiveness program, but it's a shame that alongside all the burdens physicians have, this is one of them.
I'm a student from Ukraine and I've been online since 2020 (covid was crazier there and then the war) Still the uni refuses to lessen the fees. We literally have to do clinical placements in our own countries so not even under school Yet they tell us "it's already in the contract" yappy yappy🤡
Ideally, there are other routes to med school in which you graduate debt free - that is, MD-PhD. You get a stipend instead of debt and of course, you are still a physician and much more. So if you love research, there you go!
I think it is insanity that you have to risk your life in the military in order to hope to get out of medical school debt. The average person should not be expected to make that kind of sacrifice to get an education. No other developed nation is requiring that from their students.
people create their own debt. They go to private undergrads and take out the maximum loan amount every year for undergrad and med/ grad school without any financial literacy. I am in 3rd year med school and I owe only $40,000 total and have a step by step plan on how I'll pay it off.
It's not just medical school though. All majors are seeing increases in tuition year after year. And I think it is simply that students will pay no matter what. There is no real sense of supply and demand. If the students stopped signing up for these ridiculous loans then the schools would have to be forced to lower their prices to bring in more students.
there has been a drop in people going to college recently. People chosing different careers then one provided by a college degree. I think its a telling sign that people will stop pursing these things.
Even school for Nurse Anesthesia was like this for me. It seems your potential income and payments you could make in the future is the only limiting factor in the process.
Welcome back Dr. Cellini! I actually did wonder where you went until I saw your short yesterday lol I'm doing med in Australia - I pay approx $24,000 per year for 5 years. Here, some students get money from our government to help with living costs etc. that they don't need to pay back. Because I'm a non-standard I don't. But banks here also don't offer loans to students in the same way they do overseas. So, I am effectively leaching off my very supportive partner for the next 5 years (thank god for her, or i wouldn't be able to do medicine). We don't get to go straight into residency here. Instead it's internship and then it's essentially a guessing game as to whether you ever will get into a specialty. So many doctors here work as "unaccredited registrars" hoping to eventually get into a specialty training programme. Broken systems seem the norm worldwide; but yet, because we all want to be doctors, we just take it in stride and the institutions win.
Some forces behind epic tuition costs like admin bloat and b/c ‘they can’ are really galling. But there is also the downward trajectory of state gov funding. And the gobs of dollars spent on student services (today’s students have fluffy needs). The most insidious force, imo, and which doesn’t play favorites with Ed path, is found in the Bennett Hypothesis: the more that gov funds Ed, the more tuition increases (easy access to sub student aid begets a lot of consumers). And the less the gov funds Ed, the more tuition increases to make up for that. But as is now clear, the former drives up tuition cost far more quickly and broadly. So the hand that feeds also flogs, with the usual suspects profiting. Adding to the perfect storm, higher Ed defies a competitive marketplace b/c it’s difficult to comparison shop with so many variables and variances, and with so many would-be graduates insisting that no matter what it takes or what it costs, they’ll pay it. Pressure on higher Ed to control pricing could come from tuition-related requirements for schools to maintain tax status or the doubling down on funding to trade schools and comm colleges. Whatever the pressure valve, it will inevitably need to be pushed at the ballot box.
Im in a Respiratory Therapists program at a junior college in California. Its 4,000$….. GO TO A JUNIOR COLLEGE FIRST. Not a 4 year right out of the gate. Im gonna graduate with zero debt, making 40$+ starting an hour. I could save and pay my way through PA school outright within two years.
I agree this would be the right way to go, but unfortunately, most medical schools required your pre-med credits to be at a four-year undergraduate school, putting people who went to junior college or community college at a signficant disadvantage. The whole process is really stacked against people who are in any financial situation below upper middle class :(
In Norway is almost free to become a doctor and basally all education in is free! Offcourse you need to pay for books and living, but it's basally free compared to the US. We also have basically free healthcare. We pay taxes up the... but I think its way worth it.
Norway has a lot of oil wealth in the sovereign wealth fund. Is it also free in neighboring country like Sweden, Denmark, and Finland? Also, what is the pay once you get a position.
I am a medical student in Germany in the last year. Our medical education is free of cost (except for 150€-200€ you have to pay every 6 months for a semester). As a resident at the university clinic, you make about 5k€ a month before taxes (as a single household you would have approximately 3k after taxes), which is also not a lot considering the rent and inflation rate etc. But we don’t have this monstrous loans even though state is paying about 300.000€ for 6 years of our education. With that being sad, the question about where 800.000$ are coming from is more than justified. This whole system is a fraud. With US inflation rate it’s a financial suicide. I suggest people in charge of this system should treat themselves in case of medical emergency. Medicine is such a hard path to choose as a work and you sacrifice so much to end up paying millions of loans in return to some deans or whatnot. And the fact you don’t have a transparency about where this money is going? I can’t wrap my head around it
The biggest issue is tuition keeps increasing because the government subsidized student loans, so no matter who it is or how much tuition costs, the government will give people money
This seems to be a big reason why clinicians have to charge so much for their services ... and the burden falls on the patient to pay super high premiums. I think MD tuition is fueling this fire.
If price depended on cost then no business will go bankrupt. Price depends on the value a customer gets. That is why Apple can charge $800 for something that costs them $200 and yet have people camping overnight to buy.
Great topic to debate & action must be taken. There must be regulation in university fees, but the lenders and the government make too much money from it. It´s like if you´re poor the problem is on you and we will charge you as much for it. God knows how their faces become enlightened with interest on student loans and how they joke behind the screens. Easy money for them. It genuinely makes no sense because the cost of living is increasing for everybody, tuition is ridiculously high, interest rates on loans and mortgages increase, whilst salaries stay the same or below increase in inflation rate. This buries the professional with a negative net worth for several years of their life which in turn leads to more healthcare professionals facing anxiety and depression, probably leading to an increase sales for pharmaceutical products that treat illness that derived from a capitalistic system.
She will become an ObGyn and earn 300k/y. She will be fine as well as all students. That's why medicine is still highly demanded and tuition rises yearly.
I have a feeling the doctors at the top of the chain like tuition prices high. Besides lining their own pockets, it also serves to keep medical school very under saturated. Less doctors in the population = higher & consistent salaries.
There are the same number of med student spots per year. Demand is always the same, if not increasing every year. Furthermore, doctor saturation is different based on specialties. Specialized fields have the same number of spots and continue to increase. All of this proves your theory incorrect lol
@@DrCellini thanks for your reply Dr. Cellini. So when we hear there is a large physician shortage, what are the main reasons? Is it the fact that med student spots do not increase but demand increases as you have mentioned? I wonder if addressing the shortage is more simple than some make it out to be. Would making the barrier of entry to become a doctor lower not help address this shortage? High tuition contributes to the barrier of entry (I know multiple who would have pursued medicine if not for the absurd tuition costs as we see in Rachel’s video). Thanks again for the reply, always enjoy your videos
@@judahb3ar it’s because America is selfish. They don’t want more people to climb up the ladder and become doctors. They want more people to be poorer and not achieve that level of money. So doctors can be very rich if there are less doctors
@DJ, @DrCellini, the majority of US doctors are employees. That alone means they are not “the top of the chain”. Depending on their specialty, they are viewed as replaceable commodities, who are mostly useful for data entry on billion-dollar EMRs. Sadly, healthcare is bloated with mid-level management, who know nothing about patient care, but are given a title and a large salary. Physician shortages are very real, but they will not be felt by the wealthy. As demonstrated in this video, who would choose to be a physician who makes less than $250k?? Those are our primary care physicians, pediatricians, and psychiatrists, especially the ones who take care of our indigent. “Fixing” healthcare is so multifactorial, but I believe the solutions lie more with physician respect and compensation rather than blame.
@@conniedelio thanks for your reply Constance. You made a great point, and I should have worded my post better. I said “doctors at the top of the chain”, but of course not all those who are top of the chain are doctors. I should rephrase to say only “those at the top of the chain”. Some will be physicians or former physicians, many others will be CEOs of hospitals, insurance companies, etc. That being said, I do not think it is absurd to suggest that physicians in general are advantaged salary-wise if a shortage of doctors is maintained. This is a simple factor of supply and demand. Consider European countries, where many do not have a shortage of doctors as in the United States. Compare salaries. Why is the doctor in the US paid much more over their lifetimes, even after student loan debt? Of course there are likely many factors, but I do not think it is nonsensical to suggest that the gatekeeping of a physician license in the USA is at least a contributing factor. Also, my post was certainly not meant to be read as blaming physicians, and I apologise if it appeared that way. I should have worded it better. I have a great respect for physicians and the work they perform; it is certainly not easy and often comes with great personal sacrifice.
What if I can't afford undergrad? I can't even imagine taking a loan for bachelor's AND medical school!, because to even study chemistry,biology, anatomy I have to be at the campus which means i can't have a full-time job to pay the bills even at undergrad, I just don't know what to do , I can't be homeless without a full-time job, but I want to study this is messed up .
Rachel and Dr. Cellini both make some good points and I do believe tuition has become outrageously high. However (and I am saying this a physician myself, graduated medical school in 1996), this ignores another part of the equation. Students are encouraged to borrow extremely excessive amounts of money for "living expenses". I see what kinds of apartments medical students who make TH-cam videos live in. I see the cars they drive and the vacations they take. Tuition is ABSOLUTELY too high and has risen out of proportion to inflation. Students, however, need to have some willingness for delayed gratification. It won't solve the whole problem by a long shot, but it will at least help.
Would a nationalized system work in which physicians make a maximum 200k per year, but have their medical education completely subsidized? Some spine surgeons make millions a year, but demand more pay while the average US salary hovers around 50k.
Glad to see you Dr. Cellini! Just a comment about raising the cost of college tuition. I am a doctorate level professor in Health Professions at a State university. Don't forget that university expenses continue to increase. The cost of labs, lab equipment, and repairs are triple what they were 3 years ago. With your tuition you are also funding the salaries of doctorate level faculty that are experts in their field. Many have student loans as well and have spent many years of their life in school and conducting research and they need to be financially accommodated for the knowledge they have to offer. Keep pumping out your videos I love your sense of humor and your presentation personality.😉
@@conniedelio lol. Thank you for the question Constance. No the Doctorate is in educational leadership, not health professions. My original degree is in dental hygiene which is what I taught for years. Now I am the director of a group of allied health programs. Most state universities require a Doctorate for faculty. Have a great day!
There is no such thing as a free lunch. Someone pays. If he tuition fee is less than either the school employees are paying or the tax payers are paying. You cannot have high earnings for doctors but free education.
Keep in mind that although she will make $300,000 per year. She will be taxed within a high tax bracket. This means she'll probably lose around $100k a year to taxes alone. If that leaves her $200k She'll probably be paying around $100k per year to pay back her loan. Which will take almost a decade. That's an entire decade she's not dumping money into retirement or contributing toward tangible investments. She's now down a decade from education as well as another decade to pay off debt.
I’m sorry, but why should we pity her. She opted to go to medical school when she was in her mid-20s, she should’ve had the ability to calculate out the cost and known what it would’ve cost her. She didn’t do that and now she will have a long path to pay back the debt, but it is doable.
I’d be happy if I were her. Look at our buddies in dentistry. A lot are looking at 700k in debt once they graduate (not over 30 years, but as the principal amount), and a good amount are looking at $1 million after residency. I’m not saying that the debt issue in medicine is good, but shoot if I had to pay 800k over 30 years while I made 9 million (on the low end) over 30 years. That not bad (if not good)
Hello sir ❤️ from India . We have an entrance exam to join a med school in india . By category and marks we get free seat in government college. But its really tough . But studying abroad is less cost when compared to the indian private colleges. Its is better to study in abroad like russia ir any other
If you take debt off the table you can figure out another way. I coach through Dave Ramsey’s plan. I am a physician myself. Trust me when I say debt is not needed. People think it’s a foregone conclusion that loans are needed. This is insanity. Forgiving loans while printing new loans is further insanity. That is a separate topic though.
@@laurenfrank1858 not easily but very doable Choose the correct school. It is a business decision. People go to out of state ridiculous cost schools without any research to cost. This is just one of many other points. I will provide more depending on interest but what I will say again is that if you take debt off the table, you would figure it out. Again many other ways. I hope to be able to add more. It is my goal to do this more formally at the high school and undergraduate level. I have been somewhat successful in reaching some. The main issue is mindset and parenting. It’s easy to sign up for a loan. It’s hard to eliminate debt from the equation. I am here to say it’s very doable
Thank you, Dr. Cellini! I'm happy you're helping get the word out about this corrupt system. And you were right--it's suhhh-therrrrd :'-)
Red Ant Crew where y'all at?
@@Threektwookonk reaver!!🎉🎉🎉
@@RachelSouthard Red Ant Queen!
@Rachel Southard keep it up. I agree, not enough people are talking about high tuitions it’s disgusting honestly. Why burden our future generations with financial burdens.
Its crazy how expensive medical school is in the US. In Canada is it much more reasonable. The question is who is profiting from this? I doubt its the physicians actually providing the preceptoring and the teaching.
My med school tuition has gone up 10% in 3 years. They raise it every year. I reached out to administration for a break down on the expenses and they never emailed me back.
Keep emailing them until they respond
I’d love to see a doc or med student sit down with a dean of a med school to break down what is the tuition is going towards and what everything actually costs. Maybe this would help answer the question of why tuition keeps going up… especially in the midst of a pandemic 😳 thank you for raising awareness about this topic!
Much of it can be attributed to a combination of the federal government guaranteeing loans to cover tuition and the cap on medical graduates that keeps physician supply artificially low, in order to allow the American Medical Association to inflate their (the physicians) salaries.
As a result, the government guarantees the loans no matter the cost, therefore medical schools and colleges have a perverse incentive to raise prices since there’s no cap on the amount that they can charge. Combined with limited competition as far as the number of medical schools, plus the high demand for physicians and the grossly inflated salaries that they get paid as a result of a cap on supply that further impedes competition, and you have recipe for sky high tuition costs and graduate physicians with crippling debt, that continues to increase each year.
@ᗩᒪIYᗩᕼ
Which is?
it's not set by the dean
Inflate their salaries? They’re literally trying to make them get paid less, I think a 10% deduction of what they make. Across the board. Because of a new law.
Yeah I think a lot of people don’t realize that mer students commonly use their student loans to pay for somewhere to live, utilities and even food because they can’t work during a lot of the schooling
Undergrad and Med School tuition now is absolutely insane! I'm told the reason they keep raising tuition is because they can and we keep paying for it! I was exactly in her position when I finished fellowship. My total loan amount was the same as my gross starting rad salary. I decided to live like a resident for 2 years, and I was able to pay back my entire loan in 2 years. It was totally worth it for me.
My dad went to an in State medical School back in the 1970's. He paid $300 per semester. It blows my mind. He would pay for the whole year of college by working for the post office during the summer.
End stage capitalism. It's a scam
This is why I’m thankful for my DO school. As an instate DO student, my tuition is about 26,000 and my GI bill will be covering 3 years out of the 4, so that will definitely be helpful. But schools should NEVER be this expensive. It’s insane.
Which DO school or state is that?
But u had to take part in drone striking brown people in 3rd world shit holes
@@beavermcdoogles more like take pleasure in drone striking you, Beaver, since you know me and know what I’ve been through, dipshit.
@@j572y479 take ur anger out on our chewish overlords. They run the banking system and fund both sides of all wars.
The GI Bill covers 4 years. It’s 36 months, which is 4 years of 9 months. Unless you’re going to medical school 12 months out of the year.
I’m $504,000 in student debt, it’s honestly a mess with debt today
i'm on track for that as well.
Ppl are in a mess today.
This debt problem is going to keep getting worse until the bubble pops
Well, you earn a high income so you can pay it off eventually….right….?
@@janetyingy it takes longer than you think. Plus there’s loans that have interest, so you could pay but have the amount increase. There’s different kinds, and depending on speciality it might not be that simple.
the problem also is too many people are worried about the “college experience” rather than the studies themselves. we aren’t given enough time to figure out what we want to do, and there’s too much pressure to go to college. the stigma around not going is alarming. my boyfriend decided not to go to college and it was as if he abandoned some of his family members by their reactions. ITS OKAY TO NOT GO TO COLLEGE. they almost manipulated him into going and i had to continuously tell him i’d rather him not go and just be surrounded by the stigma for a year or two than go, be miserable, and probably be in debt.
It makes 0 sense to go to college if you don't have a desire to go or an idea of what you want to do. And not that he has to go (because he doesn't) but him not wanted to go now doesn't mean he won't want to in 5 years and that'd be way better than going into debt for a degree you don't even want and waiting to get something you do want.
This has 0 to do with the actual cost of education. I don't know why Americans in particular seem to villainize higher education because they let it become expensive.
@@Anthony-db7cs First of all, it is expensive generally speak and on top of that many college degrees are just not simply worth pursuing as the return in investment can be low.
The fact that they charge that much to attend Med School, then pay you pennies during residency is absolutely nauseating.
Its funny how people say "pennies during residency." Ive always thought that was funny because I never thought 60k+ was pennies. And before you say something about 80hr/wk, most specialties don't work 80hrs/wk. Surgical specialties dont respect the 80 hr rule but for the rest of the medical specialties no one really does that. 60-65K a year for a few years is decent but everyone makes it sound like residents are working 100hr/wk making 30k/yr lmao
@@integratedmedicine4340 Agree completely
I watch Wine&Chill and she shows the actual loan numbers and does monthly updates for law school. These videos are always interesting to me
Love you guys for giving back to the world and keeping it real! Have a swell day! ❤
Beyond ridiculous how we need healthcare workers like right now and this system is crushing them with debt.
I recall recently watching a YT channel on economics (I forget which one) that claimed since 1980 the average American salary increased by 225% but college tuition increased by 1200%. They blamed most of it on the schools milking the government backed student loan programs.
Without getting all political, apparently it was all Ron Reagan’s idea. He started this back when he was governor of CA. CA was one of the first states that had the whole for-profit universities in America. He thought it was a good idea to privatize our education system. When he became president, he successfully moved us away from government funded colleges.
Instant like. Shoutout Rachel the GOAT
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU DR Cellini and Rachel for this priceless information 🙏🏼🤍
When you fail med school and you have so much debt... that's when you really have a problem
Omg
I'm fortunate that I only have 20k in student debt. I went to a community college for 2 years that I was able to cash flow because it was so cheap, so my 20k in loans was to cover the final 2 years at a public university. I wouldn't be surprised if eventually the med schools topped out exactly at the limit of what you can take out in federal loans, it'll be the craziest coincidence. tbh, the catastrophic rise in tuition costs is most likely driven by the availability of federally backed loans. If you look back over the trajectory of tuition costs across time, they didn't start rising fast until after the federal student loan system was implemented. Prior to that, you had more state funding for colleges, as well as a natural market limitation to what schools could charge, since students would have had to take out private loans if they were too high, and most private loans back then were incredibly difficult to get. They can charge as much as they do precisely because the federal government will cover it. If the government said no, they'd have to start trimming the fat real quick and make their schools significantly more affordable.
Such an important video! Thank you both for sharing
Been talking about this issue for years (college in general) that the easy access to student loans has given colleges the ability to inflate their costs. They add administrators, they make their buildings and greens "experience centers" and lost the focus on educating. Every student now has a $50-100k price on their head and schools like Harvard jack up the price in order to get exclusivity.
Rachel brings up some really great points that they got rid of labs, and put their lecture on-line and the prices still increased. Even if government paid college isnt a thing, there needs to be some expectations (pressure) on the school before they are eligible for student loans.
Great Video! Solid points school tuition should be capped or monitored. That’s just insanity. Takes “More money more problems” to a whole different meaning
Thanks Dr C for coming back. Keep up the great work that you do on your channel. Law school, less resource intensive than medical education, presents the same financial challenges for its students and graduates. Most law students do not think about or appreciate that eventually they will be paying monthly for the condo on the lake that they will never occupy. Finally, I'm an old time xray tech. I really miss your introduction that featured the old exposure sounds.....techs these days have it so easy by comparison.......retakes take just seconds. When I worked, it was minutes.......
Respectfully, disagree. Financial challenges for a law school education are also unjustifiable, but to a much lesser extreme. Four years of med school, three years of law school. Residents and fellows make a small salary (and work ridiculous hours), while lawyers earn much larger salaries upon graduation. Easier to start paying back their (smaller) loans.
Good to see ya back, definitely being a doctor is more important than being a youtuber IMO, take care of yourself Doc
Lol agreed. But I like to do both
@@DrCellini we like when you do both too! As long as you’re happy, healthy, and helping :)
Any video on happy ending like The way to go is loan forgiveness - more competition to get a non-for profit job now a day- and those computer screens remind me of being in Tesla 😅
I’ve followed Rachel for some time. I’m excited to hear what you have to say about this, especially with your finance background. Certainly made me clutch my White Coat Investor book closer.
Tuition is €2000 a year in the Netherlands
This is crazy!!!😲 Here I am, already massively stressing over my 30k student debt..
Thank you and her for this video. I’m a resident and these loans are insane
I had to go Carribean due to cost/time. $120k for med school and saved me 3-4 years of post-bacc and delays if I didnt get in right away.
Wow this is THE TOPIC that barely gets discussed and brought up to the right audience!!! Overall college / university education is the most shittiest rip off ever especially them damn fees per course universities squeeze in without any explanation!!! I am also not sure who is open to hear it or who is the right govt/agency/org that can do anything about it!!!
In the United States you get punished to become a doctor with at least $250,000 of loans. Ridiculous... I still have to pay off all my Medschool debt
Here’s my vote as a student for a huge group of physicians to come together and create an accredited med school network in the us
It’s called the American Association of Medical Colleges (AAMC). Have no idea what it does.
It’s a Racket. They make it almost impossible for foreign schools which charge way less then state side schools to get accredited and for students to get student loans even though they have the exact standards curriculum and this system will crash soon since people are wisening up. I’m a Nurse and for a BSN degree in California it costs $100-125k in a private school and public it’s way less but it’s lottery based with 2 year backlog and on top of that if you want to go out of state then program has to be accredited by California board of Nurses.
Facts
I wonder if a class action lawsuit would force a change since it’s a monopoly/racket/ criminal enterprise, and Rico statue applies to all of the system from the schools banks to the states.
On one hand, medical school shouldn't be that expensive. On the other, physicians in the US are the highest paid in the world. $350k is hardly anything for most specialties if you avoid a lavish lifestyle for a few years.
It is important to remember that most med students are not getting their medical knowledge from in class lectures but online lectures like Lecturio and online question banks like UWorld which means that high quality medical knowledge is available to everyone, everywhere in the world.
Finding high quality medical education in English in WHO approved schools in Ireland, and Eastern Europe (Poland and Hungary) should be seriously considered.
I wanted to go to med school (and still do) but also was interested in dental school, which I found was even more expensive on average. Also DO schools vs MD are more expensive, for the few DO schools im looking at. Such a deterrent to potentially amazing doctors to have lifelong debt.
that is surprising dental cost more
@1:55 I thought that was 952,048.00 at first and then @9:10 wtf? That's absurd! 🤦🏾♂️
I can feel her pain right now... ugh. I'm mad for her.
In response to the raising tuition, wouldn't they need to pay everyone at the institution more each year?
My medical school was $80K per year. It's now, $98K per year smh
wtf
The demand for people wanting to go to medical school is high! That's why the cost to attend medical school keeps going up!
I am an MBA with a 150k in student loans, it doubled with interest upon interest (originally owed 45k for undergrad and 26k for Grad). I will be working a second job, after my 9-5 to pay off my student loans. I signed up for IBRP so I might qualify for the Public Service Forgiveness program, not to be confused with the Biden forgiveness plan. I feel the pain.
I’ve missed you Dr. Cellini. Welcome back!
That’s a whole other level of debt right there
Aweeee I missed your videos!!! Glad you got recharged and are back!
As a physician that finish residency it is extremely difficult to pay those especially with high interests at 7-8%. This is what is driving the high cost of health care in America. Ppl blame the doctors that invest this money but they don't blame the universities.
Just choose a different job if u can’t make it into a speciality. Most Medical doctors nowadays only kill people by indiscriminately administering the clot shot anyways.
In the Netherlands we don’t have student debt because of tuition. We have student debt because the students borrow money to have a chill life en pay for their social activities.
Good to see you back ☺☺
I wish the government would for medicine what they do for warmongering. Early medical training, free medical school with subsidized housing, a living stipend, and then deployment for 4 years after residency ends. Imagine how much less burnout.
Either that or start paying a good wage and proper hours for medical residency
@@DeOppressoLiber either way the hours are unethical and not conducive to proper learning and ethical behavior
If you completely cut universities' government funding and their tax exempt organization status.
You'll see universities dropping tuition costs real fast
yeah this is a major shortocming of the US medical system. my brother was lucky and got 500k dismissed through the 1-0-year loan forgiveness program, but it's a shame that alongside all the burdens physicians have, this is one of them.
Still don’t understand why you can’t pay student loans off with pre-tax income. Seems so simple and would help so much
I'm a student from Ukraine and I've been online since 2020 (covid was crazier there and then the war)
Still the uni refuses to lessen the fees.
We literally have to do clinical placements in our own countries so not even under school
Yet they tell us "it's already in the contract" yappy yappy🤡
Now imagine being an international student ☠☠
The fact that we also do most of the studying and learning ourselves
Ideally, there are other routes to med school in which you graduate debt free - that is, MD-PhD. You get a stipend instead of debt and of course, you are still a physician and much more. So if you love research, there you go!
I love medicine, but I hate the cost of medical school more
Hence the reason I did HPSP. There are creative ways to get school paid for. I agree tho school is extremely expensive
I think it is insanity that you have to risk your life in the military in order to hope to get out of medical school debt. The average person should not be expected to make that kind of sacrifice to get an education. No other developed nation is requiring that from their students.
people create their own debt. They go to private undergrads and take out the maximum loan amount every year for undergrad and med/ grad school without any financial literacy. I am in 3rd year med school and I owe only $40,000 total and have a step by step plan on how I'll pay it off.
350k is average now
It's not just medical school though. All majors are seeing increases in tuition year after year. And I think it is simply that students will pay no matter what. There is no real sense of supply and demand. If the students stopped signing up for these ridiculous loans then the schools would have to be forced to lower their prices to bring in more students.
there has been a drop in people going to college recently. People chosing different careers then one provided by a college degree. I think its a telling sign that people will stop pursing these things.
You have any recommendations for people who are in finance and help medical students with loans
At that point when I finish, Im moving to MX😂😂😂😂 and live stress free
I really feel like they charge as much as they do solely because they know that they can. It’s really not ok
These things need to be addressed at the political level.
Even school for Nurse Anesthesia was like this for me. It seems your potential income and payments you could make in the future is the only limiting factor in the process.
Yes the word needs to get out.
Welcome back Dr. Cellini! I actually did wonder where you went until I saw your short yesterday lol
I'm doing med in Australia - I pay approx $24,000 per year for 5 years. Here, some students get money from our government to help with living costs etc. that they don't need to pay back. Because I'm a non-standard I don't. But banks here also don't offer loans to students in the same way they do overseas. So, I am effectively leaching off my very supportive partner for the next 5 years (thank god for her, or i wouldn't be able to do medicine).
We don't get to go straight into residency here. Instead it's internship and then it's essentially a guessing game as to whether you ever will get into a specialty. So many doctors here work as "unaccredited registrars" hoping to eventually get into a specialty training programme.
Broken systems seem the norm worldwide; but yet, because we all want to be doctors, we just take it in stride and the institutions win.
Some forces behind epic tuition costs like admin bloat and b/c ‘they can’ are really galling. But there is also the downward trajectory of state gov funding. And the gobs of dollars spent on student services (today’s students have fluffy needs).
The most insidious force, imo, and which doesn’t play favorites with Ed path, is found in the Bennett Hypothesis: the more that gov funds Ed, the more tuition increases (easy access to sub student aid begets a lot of consumers). And the less the gov funds Ed, the more tuition increases to make up for that. But as is now clear, the former drives up tuition cost far more quickly and broadly.
So the hand that feeds also flogs, with the usual suspects profiting.
Adding to the perfect storm, higher Ed defies a competitive marketplace b/c it’s difficult to comparison shop with so many variables and variances, and with so many would-be graduates insisting that no matter what it takes or what it costs, they’ll pay it.
Pressure on higher Ed to control pricing could come from tuition-related requirements for schools to maintain tax status or the doubling down on funding to trade schools and comm colleges. Whatever the pressure valve, it will inevitably need to be pushed at the ballot box.
Im in a Respiratory Therapists program at a junior college in California. Its 4,000$…..
GO TO A JUNIOR COLLEGE FIRST. Not a 4 year right out of the gate.
Im gonna graduate with zero debt, making 40$+ starting an hour. I could save and pay my way through PA school outright within two years.
I agree this would be the right way to go, but unfortunately, most medical schools required your pre-med credits to be at a four-year undergraduate school, putting people who went to junior college or community college at a signficant disadvantage. The whole process is really stacked against people who are in any financial situation below upper middle class :(
In Norway is almost free to become a doctor and basally all education in is free! Offcourse you need to pay for books and living, but it's basally free compared to the US. We also have basically free healthcare. We pay taxes up the... but I think its way worth it.
Norway has a lot of oil wealth in the sovereign wealth fund. Is it also free in neighboring country like Sweden, Denmark, and Finland? Also, what is the pay once you get a position.
I am a medical student in Germany in the last year. Our medical education is free of cost (except for 150€-200€ you have to pay every 6 months for a semester). As a resident at the university clinic, you make about 5k€ a month before taxes (as a single household you would have approximately 3k after taxes), which is also not a lot considering the rent and inflation rate etc. But we don’t have this monstrous loans even though state is paying about 300.000€ for 6 years of our education. With that being sad, the question about where 800.000$ are coming from is more than justified. This whole system is a fraud. With US inflation rate it’s a financial suicide. I suggest people in charge of this system should treat themselves in case of medical emergency. Medicine is such a hard path to choose as a work and you sacrifice so much to end up paying millions of loans in return to some deans or whatnot. And the fact you don’t have a transparency about where this money is going? I can’t wrap my head around it
The biggest issue is tuition keeps increasing because the government subsidized student loans, so no matter who it is or how much tuition costs, the government will give people money
This seems to be a big reason why clinicians have to charge so much for their services ... and the burden falls on the patient to pay super high premiums. I think MD tuition is fueling this fire.
Tuition increases because they can period.
All medical professionals should get a huge tax credit.
Medical professionals are some of the highest paid jobs ever! Why give them a tax credit!?
Uhhhhh no… they know beforehand the high sacrifice.. in order to get a extremely high salary, will require high debt for awhile…
If price depended on cost then no business will go bankrupt. Price depends on the value a customer gets. That is why Apple can charge $800 for something that costs them $200 and yet have people camping overnight to buy.
What is the average monthly payment toward student loans once you're an attending? That $3,000 number is freaking me out hahaha
Great topic to debate & action must be taken. There must be regulation in university fees, but the lenders and the government make too much money from it. It´s like if you´re poor the problem is on you and we will charge you as much for it. God knows how their faces become enlightened with interest on student loans and how they joke behind the screens. Easy money for them. It genuinely makes no sense because the cost of living is increasing for everybody, tuition is ridiculously high, interest rates on loans and mortgages increase, whilst salaries stay the same or below increase in inflation rate. This buries the professional with a negative net worth for several years of their life which in turn leads to more healthcare professionals facing anxiety and depression, probably leading to an increase sales for pharmaceutical products that treat illness that derived from a capitalistic system.
I almost passed out when I seen the number. Why do most influencers say 100-200K for med school?
Try 500000 by the end of training
Student loans are the problem
Welcome back Dr. C! You were missed. ❤️
She will become an ObGyn and earn 300k/y. She will be fine as well as all students. That's why medicine is still highly demanded and tuition rises yearly.
I have a feeling the doctors at the top of the chain like tuition prices high. Besides lining their own pockets, it also serves to keep medical school very under saturated. Less doctors in the population = higher & consistent salaries.
There are the same number of med student spots per year. Demand is always the same, if not increasing every year. Furthermore, doctor saturation is different based on specialties. Specialized fields have the same number of spots and continue to increase. All of this proves your theory incorrect lol
@@DrCellini thanks for your reply Dr. Cellini. So when we hear there is a large physician shortage, what are the main reasons? Is it the fact that med student spots do not increase but demand increases as you have mentioned? I wonder if addressing the shortage is more simple than some make it out to be. Would making the barrier of entry to become a doctor lower not help address this shortage? High tuition contributes to the barrier of entry (I know multiple who would have pursued medicine if not for the absurd tuition costs as we see in Rachel’s video). Thanks again for the reply, always enjoy your videos
@@judahb3ar it’s because America is selfish. They don’t want more people to climb up the ladder and become doctors. They want more people to be poorer and not achieve that level of money. So doctors can be very rich if there are less doctors
@DJ, @DrCellini, the majority of US doctors are employees. That alone means they are not “the top of the chain”. Depending on their specialty, they are viewed as replaceable commodities, who are mostly useful for data entry on billion-dollar EMRs.
Sadly, healthcare is bloated with mid-level management, who know nothing about patient care, but are given a title and a large salary.
Physician shortages are very real, but they will not be felt by the wealthy. As demonstrated in this video, who would choose to be a physician who makes less than $250k?? Those are our primary care physicians, pediatricians, and psychiatrists, especially the ones who take care of our indigent.
“Fixing” healthcare is so multifactorial, but I believe the solutions lie more with physician respect and compensation rather than blame.
@@conniedelio thanks for your reply Constance. You made a great point, and I should have worded my post better. I said “doctors at the top of the chain”, but of course not all those who are top of the chain are doctors. I should rephrase to say only “those at the top of the chain”. Some will be physicians or former physicians, many others will be CEOs of hospitals, insurance companies, etc. That being said, I do not think it is absurd to suggest that physicians in general are advantaged salary-wise if a shortage of doctors is maintained. This is a simple factor of supply and demand. Consider European countries, where many do not have a shortage of doctors as in the United States. Compare salaries. Why is the doctor in the US paid much more over their lifetimes, even after student loan debt? Of course there are likely many factors, but I do not think it is nonsensical to suggest that the gatekeeping of a physician license in the USA is at least a contributing factor.
Also, my post was certainly not meant to be read as blaming physicians, and I apologise if it appeared that way. I should have worded it better. I have a great respect for physicians and the work they perform; it is certainly not easy and often comes with great personal sacrifice.
This is why i choose not to go into medicine when i was in my early 20s 12 years ago.
This is my loan amount from just Med school, and I’ve had $10k+ scholarships every year
What if I can't afford undergrad? I can't even imagine taking a loan for bachelor's AND medical school!, because to even study chemistry,biology, anatomy I have to be at the campus which means i can't have a full-time job to pay the bills even at undergrad, I just don't know what to do , I can't be homeless without a full-time job, but I want to study this is messed up .
My state just made public college free. No one should have to pay for college.
Rachel and Dr. Cellini both make some good points and I do believe tuition has become outrageously high. However (and I am saying this a physician myself, graduated medical school in 1996), this ignores another part of the equation. Students are encouraged to borrow extremely excessive amounts of money for "living expenses". I see what kinds of apartments medical students who make TH-cam videos live in. I see the cars they drive and the vacations they take. Tuition is ABSOLUTELY too high and has risen out of proportion to inflation. Students, however, need to have some willingness for delayed gratification. It won't solve the whole problem by a long shot, but it will at least help.
Would a nationalized system work in which physicians make a maximum 200k per year, but have their medical education completely subsidized? Some spine surgeons make millions a year, but demand more pay while the average US salary hovers around 50k.
Glad to see you Dr. Cellini! Just a comment about raising the cost of college tuition. I am a doctorate level professor in Health Professions at a State university. Don't forget that university expenses continue to increase. The cost of labs, lab equipment, and repairs are triple what they were 3 years ago. With your tuition you are also funding the salaries of doctorate level faculty that are experts in their field. Many have student loans as well and have spent many years of their life in school and conducting research and they need to be financially accommodated for the knowledge they have to offer.
Keep pumping out your videos I love your sense of humor and your presentation personality.😉
With all due respect, what does one do with a Doctorate in Health Professions?
@@conniedelio lol. Thank you for the question Constance. No the Doctorate is in educational leadership, not health professions. My original degree is in dental hygiene which is what I taught for years. Now I am the director of a group of allied health programs. Most state universities require a Doctorate for faculty. Have a great day!
There is no such thing as a free lunch. Someone pays. If he tuition fee is less than either the school employees are paying or the tax payers are paying. You cannot have high earnings for doctors but free education.
Ask for an itemized bill ?
Keep in mind that although she will make $300,000 per year. She will be taxed within a high tax bracket. This means she'll probably lose around $100k a year to taxes alone. If that leaves her $200k She'll probably be paying around $100k per year to pay back her loan. Which will take almost a decade. That's an entire decade she's not dumping money into retirement or contributing toward tangible investments. She's now down a decade from education as well as another decade to pay off debt.
If medical school is this costly for citizens in the U.S what happens to foreigners who are hoping to gain admission at a med school there?
I’m sorry, but why should we pity her. She opted to go to medical school when she was in her mid-20s, she should’ve had the ability to calculate out the cost and known what it would’ve cost her. She didn’t do that and now she will have a long path to pay back the debt, but it is doable.
I’d be happy if I were her. Look at our buddies in dentistry. A lot are looking at 700k in debt once they graduate (not over 30 years, but as the principal amount), and a good amount are looking at $1 million after residency. I’m not saying that the debt issue in medicine is good, but shoot if I had to pay 800k over 30 years while I made 9 million (on the low end) over 30 years. That not bad (if not good)
new desk set up?! PC instead of Mac now? update pls!
Well don't go 🤷
Exactly!
@@roythousand13
Typical Republican 😂😂
holy moly
I think schools cost so much because it’s so easy to get student loans
Hello sir ❤️ from India . We have an entrance exam to join a med school in india . By category and marks we get free seat in government college. But its really tough . But studying abroad is less cost when compared to the indian private colleges. Its is better to study in abroad like russia ir any other
So in four years should have made 1,000,000+ money so why can’t she pay off the loan
If you take debt off the table you can figure out another way. I coach through Dave Ramsey’s plan. I am a physician myself. Trust me when I say debt is not needed. People think it’s a foregone conclusion that loans are needed. This is insanity. Forgiving loans while printing new loans is further insanity. That is a separate topic though.
Can you elaborate how one would finance medical school tuition and cost of living without student loans?
@@laurenfrank1858 not easily but very doable
Choose the correct school. It is a business decision. People go to out of state ridiculous cost schools without any research to cost. This is just one of many other points. I will provide more depending on interest but what I will say again is that if you take debt off the table, you would figure it out. Again many other ways. I hope to be able to add more. It is my goal to do this more formally at the high school and undergraduate level. I have been somewhat successful in reaching some. The main issue is mindset and parenting. It’s easy to sign up for a loan. It’s hard to eliminate debt from the equation. I am here to say it’s very doable
Ok but you earn a high income as a doctor so it can be paid off eventually……right…..?
&Dr. Cellini I like your channel, you create great content.