My old boy, I had him 17 years, had two tight swirls very close, side by side right obove the eyes. I had to let him go with 27 due to a bad front knee. He never complained, ever, but I didn't want to stretch it until he could not rise after a napp. He didn't deserve that. He was the best horse ever, for me he did what I ask, and told me over the years if I was unreasonable by sending me flying once or twice. But when realy shit happens, he took care off me, saving my life. He was very special and save as you can get them. I could lounge my 2 year old cantering and he would never make a wrong step. BUT it seems he had another side as well, rearing up until the rider who was looking after him, refuced to ride him again. I travel for work so my horses are without me for around 2 weeks, then I'm back for 4 weeks. Every time I'm gone my horse got messy in the box and had this episodes where he scared people. I think he was choosing to be nice to me, but I would have liked if he would tell me when he had issues earlier. One day he was not eating his lunch 😮 so I called the vet for colic. The went told me, na, is just a mild one, I'm overreacting. But when she started emptying his intestence with bone dry, hard poop, she got very serious. He never showed how sick he was. Now I have a boring, one swirl between the eyes colt. He is somehow very different, and somehow very similar. I guess one makes their own horses to a degree. He was a fabulous jumper and didn't do to bad in dressage either. 😉 Love your videos by the way, and the book I'm currently reading 😊
Those old timers knew something. I’ve heard some of these things over the years. Love this series you’ve done. I’m horse shopping again so believe me I’m paying attention now!! Thank you ever so much for sharing your experience.
Im glad you like it. It was fun going back through all my notes, Im sure those old guys forgot more than Ill ever learn but Im dang proud to have been around them.
Interesting observations. Boy to I have pictures to send to you! This year's foal crop has whorls I have never seen before in 60 years of breeding. Not only did we get strange whorls, we got snips on many of the foals. An interesting year! I personally love the little higher double whorls as I find them to be smart, clever and lots of fun to work with! Your comments about the donkeys has made me go looking for ours to take note! I'm looking forward to your second installment of this discussion!
I have a double whorl mare, vertical. She fits more of your description of a horizontal double whorl. She is definitely fractious and if she gets overwhelmed, I have to just stop and let her stand for a minute. But, she is super confident, adventurous, gritty, and she has that laser focus. She is also never the one to show up with dings or scrapes, so not at all accident prone. However, she's a mare, so not stupid, and has been raised in a forest (her "pasture" is just thinned out forest). She's always had to step over windfall, and glacial rubble (Canadian Shield area). She's the horse that has challenged me the most but man is she ever worth it. Interesting that you mention about not wanting to be pet on. She really only wants me to pet on her when it's fly season and I can itch her udder and belly. I got an old grey mare with a center swirl for hanging out with, so it's all good. But when I want an adventure and to cover ground, my double swirl girl is who I want under me.
Two whorls, high up, side by side, right under the forelock. Medicine hat paint, one blue eye, welsh stallion... wish you could see him. Fascinating video.
Enjoyed this video! My 2 rescued seniors are single whorled, high on the forehead. What you said is very true of them. Tho the older one came from a kill pen and while his weight and health are back, he’s got pain even with daily Equioxx. He gets a bit grumpy and sometimes I think he wonders why on earth I touch him so much! He’s come a long way. I like your comment about making things his idea….definitely respects me more as I respect him more.
totally relate to what you are talking about on whorls. have a mini with a double side by side that are really tight. and one day he's fine easy to work and next day just all scatter brained. but tough as nails. like your presentation look forward to hearing more
I picked up a 3 year old filly this spring with the double horizontal whorls, didn't think much about it. My wife said that means she's really smart. So I did the right thing and didn't believe her....we shall see. But I must admit she is very willing to learn and seems to pickup on things very quickly. I hope my wife is correct, but of course I won't tell her if she is. Great video, very glad you did it and I'm looking forward to the next one. Thanks Brett.
Only thing I know about whirls is what you just taught me. Going out to the barn to take a look. Heard of them before but never paid it any mind. Interesting topic.
Lol my gelding is a stacked double whirl high at a a slight diagonal Walker gelding but he is also a Gemini and he is exactly what you said. He was my first horse too. Honestly though maybe because of his breed he is a sweetheart, though when he decides he is done working he will stop and nothing I do will make him go. He is also lookey and can be spookey, but luckily his breed is very easy going and goofy so other than being spooky sometimes and lookey (spooking himself because his looking around) he is very tolerant of my shenanigans and mistakes. He’s sort of like a big, stubborn black Lab.
I really appreciate your perspective on this subject. I've paid attention to whorls on the forehead for years, but most of the information about them relates to disposition. That is certainly helpful, but hearing your perspective from more of a performance aspect is really interesting. My daughter is a body worker, she started documenting body whorls to see if patterns of soreness are related to whorls. I have a morgan gelding with a huge whorl on his right shoulder that just happens to have chronic soreness there that we can not get to the root of.
I have a big blue 1/4 draft that is smarter than any horse I've had. He unties himself opens the gates and seemed to know the fencer was the source of what bit him when he thought about pushing the fence. Last time he got out he smashed it.
I’m a retired veterinarian. Have 19:39 heard old timers talk about whorls didn’t put much store in it. But immediately went out and looked at my horses after listening to this. Don’t have any double whorls in the 8 I have. But my main show horse does have a slightly looser whorl quite high on his head midline. He is pretty quick and always alert. Very sensitive. I’ll have to check more horses. Maybe something to it as another layer on top of their base personality. The others are all single tight whorl in center b/t eyes
I pay more attention to the ancestors than whorls. Each horse carries so many possibilities its by pure chance which ancestor you are going to get. So a serious breeder will identify a problem horse from 60 to 100 years ago and try to minus that individual from the pedigree. Most people are not aware of those horses from long ago that are causing problems and don't know where their problems is coming from. Hats off to those people who have researched and published which horses were a problem in the breed magazines.
Paper does not mean a lot to me, it only gives you an idea of what you can expect. Cashes Clay's brother couldn't fight and my sister is a Dr, so much for pedigree. I see what you are saying but only a few of the associations can go back more that fifty years
My one mare has a double side by side whorl. In young years she had a difficult attitude but I always got along with her and love her to death, she is just wonderful. She would and has done anything for me in the last 13 years. A real friend. My other mare has a double whorl one above the other and man, she is a machine. She doesn't like to cuddle that much. If you want anything from her, put a halter on, than she is immediately in "work mode" and anything becomes possible. She works as hard as you can imagine, she is brave as a lion and intelligent as a mule. This horse in the wrong hands would be a nightmare, but I really love her. I would buy her again in a heartbeat.
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt he doesn’t like it when it rains, he is grumpy, ears back, sometimes he will run and kick at the rain . Then he needs a lot of scratches to feel good again . He is a special character
@adavis1989 We wrote down what we thought all the personal horses were, about a dozen, then went out to check. We were wrong on one. Watching I laughed and had to rewind to be sure, my own personal horse is a big red and white paint mare, with a white chin. I've had her 17 years, and yep she's still a tricky handful, but never boring!
I have been picking up brood mares this summer those woralls mean more to me than names on paper. Have 11 all double tight side by side and the neck is almost to ears. Nice breeding helps but that's second. Damn skipper Ws will teach about those double tight at a angles.
@@lilmissstfu1126 didn't say I didn't like they are a working cowboys horse. You can wear one out work all day every day and they ask for more. Best thing for a young kid learning to start colts they have to learn you pick a fight they will finish
I have a registered paint with very little coloring to indicate his breed. He pretty much looks like a sorrel qtr horse. He has 3 whorls on his forehead, one big one on his left side where the cinch goes, a couple on the side of his neck. Don't know what they all mean but I know that 2 yrs I could wrap him in a tarp and he played with it without care. I was riding him when on the trail came a team of 10 sled dogs pulling small 4 wheeler and he wanted to chase them! I had a Coyote in my paddock and he was chasing it, head down and ears laid back. I wanted to shoot but didn't dare for fear of hitting the horse.
Ok, Brett, I just looked at a pretty blue roan filly that has 3 whorls on her forehead, what would you say could be expected? A friend bought her but I’m pretty leery .
Pick your breed (I prefer Morgans) but a whorl centered at eye level or a little above will usually be a horse that is pleasant and easy to get along with. Depending on your part of the discipline you may want to go that way or one a little higher if you want a horse that will meet more challenging work. Enjoy your riding!
This is all 100% correct information on all 4 of my horses!
Wow, that is cool
"They probably also have a high tolerance to alcohol" 🤣😂🤣
Iv got whorles
My old boy, I had him 17 years, had two tight swirls very close, side by side right obove the eyes. I had to let him go with 27 due to a bad front knee. He never complained, ever, but I didn't want to stretch it until he could not rise after a napp. He didn't deserve that. He was the best horse ever, for me he did what I ask, and told me over the years if I was unreasonable by sending me flying once or twice. But when realy shit happens, he took care off me, saving my life. He was very special and save as you can get them. I could lounge my 2 year old cantering and he would never make a wrong step.
BUT it seems he had another side as well, rearing up until the rider who was looking after him, refuced to ride him again. I travel for work so my horses are without me for around 2 weeks, then I'm back for 4 weeks. Every time I'm gone my horse got messy in the box and had this episodes where he scared people.
I think he was choosing to be nice to me, but I would have liked if he would tell me when he had issues earlier. One day he was not eating his lunch 😮 so I called the vet for colic. The went told me, na, is just a mild one, I'm overreacting. But when she started emptying his intestence with bone dry, hard poop, she got very serious. He never showed how sick he was.
Now I have a boring, one swirl between the eyes colt. He is somehow very different, and somehow very similar. I guess one makes their own horses to a degree.
He was a fabulous jumper and didn't do to bad in dressage either. 😉
Love your videos by the way, and the book I'm currently reading 😊
Im sure sorry to hear about your old boy. I have one like that myself. Glad you like the videos.
Those old timers knew something. I’ve heard some of these things over the years. Love this series you’ve done.
I’m horse shopping again so believe me I’m paying attention now!!
Thank you ever so much for sharing your experience.
Im glad you like it. It was fun going back through all my notes, Im sure those old guys forgot more than Ill ever learn but Im dang proud to have been around them.
Interesting observations. Boy to I have pictures to send to you! This year's foal crop has whorls I have never seen before in 60 years of breeding. Not only did we get strange whorls, we got snips on many of the foals. An interesting year! I personally love the little higher double whorls as I find them to be smart, clever and lots of fun to work with! Your comments about the donkeys has made me go looking for ours to take note!
I'm looking forward to your second installment of this discussion!
I would love to see the pic
I have a double whorl mare, vertical. She fits more of your description of a horizontal double whorl. She is definitely fractious and if she gets overwhelmed, I have to just stop and let her stand for a minute. But, she is super confident, adventurous, gritty, and she has that laser focus. She is also never the one to show up with dings or scrapes, so not at all accident prone. However, she's a mare, so not stupid, and has been raised in a forest (her "pasture" is just thinned out forest). She's always had to step over windfall, and glacial rubble (Canadian Shield area). She's the horse that has challenged me the most but man is she ever worth it. Interesting that you mention about not wanting to be pet on. She really only wants me to pet on her when it's fly season and I can itch her udder and belly. I got an old grey mare with a center swirl for hanging out with, so it's all good. But when I want an adventure and to cover ground, my double swirl girl is who I want under me.
cool
It’s a lot of fun! And I’ve been paying more attention 👌
it is fun
Great video. Got me thinking about my past horses and go look at the ones I have now. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, Brett.
you bet
You've got me thinking .
Study continued
Same for all of us
Two whorls, high up, side by side, right under the forelock. Medicine hat paint, one blue eye, welsh stallion... wish you could see him.
Fascinating video.
Ill bet hes pretty
Thanks so much for sharing I was taking notes on everything you said
you bet. I hope the info does you some good someday. At the least you can boggle someones mind by looking at there horse and telling them how he acts.
Enjoyed this video! My 2 rescued seniors are single whorled, high on the forehead. What you said is very true of them. Tho the older one came from a kill pen and while his weight and health are back, he’s got pain even with daily Equioxx. He gets a bit grumpy and sometimes I think he wonders why on earth I touch him so much! He’s come a long way. I like your comment about making things his idea….definitely respects me more as I respect him more.
that's great
Always get me thinking. Thanks so much Brett
Im glad
totally relate to what you are talking about on whorls. have a mini with a double side by side that are really tight. and one day he's fine easy to work and next day just all scatter brained. but tough as nails. like your presentation look forward to hearing more
glad you like it
Super interesting + all ur experience 👍👍thx
Glad you liked it
Thanks!
Thank you. I appreciate it.
I’ve always watched mane whorls more than forehead. Gonna go look thru them. Good info.
Some of those main whorls spook me.
I picked up a 3 year old filly this spring with the double horizontal whorls, didn't think much about it. My wife said that means she's really smart. So I did the right thing and didn't believe her....we shall see. But I must admit she is very willing to learn and seems to pickup on things very quickly. I hope my wife is correct, but of course I won't tell her if she is.
Great video, very glad you did it and I'm looking forward to the next one. Thanks Brett.
to cool. I hope your wife is right but I won't tell either. lol. Im sure glad you like the content
fascinating
thank you
Thank you
Interesting, thanks! 👍
glad you dig it
Only thing I know about whirls is what you just taught me. Going out to the barn to take a look. Heard of them before but never paid it any mind. Interesting topic.
I hope you get some good insight
Lol my gelding is a stacked double whirl high at a a slight diagonal Walker gelding but he is also a Gemini and he is exactly what you said. He was my first horse too. Honestly though maybe because of his breed he is a sweetheart, though when he decides he is done working he will stop and nothing I do will make him go. He is also lookey and can be spookey, but luckily his breed is very easy going and goofy so other than being spooky sometimes and lookey (spooking himself because his looking around) he is very tolerant of my shenanigans and mistakes. He’s sort of like a big, stubborn black Lab.
to cool.
Temple Grandin talks about this as well.
I didn't know that
I really appreciate your perspective on this subject. I've paid attention to whorls on the forehead for years, but most of the information about them relates to disposition. That is certainly helpful, but hearing your perspective from more of a performance aspect is really interesting. My daughter is a body worker, she started documenting body whorls to see if patterns of soreness are related to whorls. I have a morgan gelding with a huge whorl on his right shoulder that just happens to have chronic soreness there that we can not get to the root of.
I talk a little about that in the rest of the series, they do indeed have a lot to do with body soreness and joints
I have a big blue 1/4 draft that is smarter than any horse I've had. He unties himself opens the gates and seemed to know the fencer was the source of what bit him when he thought about pushing the fence. Last time he got out he smashed it.
must have figured that out@@rodgerford32
He has a double whorl by the way
im sure he does@@rodgerford32
I’m a retired veterinarian. Have 19:39 heard old timers talk about whorls didn’t put much store in it. But immediately went out and looked at my horses after listening to this. Don’t have any double whorls in the 8 I have. But my main show horse does have a slightly looser whorl quite high on his head midline. He is pretty quick and always alert. Very sensitive. I’ll have to check more horses. Maybe something to it as another layer on top of their base personality. The others are all single tight whorl in center b/t eyes
It worth looking at
I pay more attention to the ancestors than whorls. Each horse carries so many possibilities its by pure chance which ancestor you are going to get. So a serious breeder will identify a problem horse from 60 to 100 years ago and try to minus that individual from the pedigree. Most people are not aware of those horses from long ago that are causing problems and don't know where their problems is coming from. Hats off to those people who have researched and published which horses were a problem in the breed magazines.
Paper does not mean a lot to me, it only gives you an idea of what you can expect. Cashes Clay's brother couldn't fight and my sister is a Dr, so much for pedigree. I see what you are saying but only a few of the associations can go back more that fifty years
My one mare has a double side by side whorl. In young years she had a difficult attitude but I always got along with her and love her to death, she is just wonderful. She would and has done anything for me in the last 13 years. A real friend.
My other mare has a double whorl one above the other and man, she is a machine. She doesn't like to cuddle that much. If you want anything from her, put a halter on, than she is immediately in "work mode" and anything becomes possible.
She works as hard as you can imagine, she is brave as a lion and intelligent as a mule. This horse in the wrong hands would be a nightmare, but I really love her. I would buy her again in a heartbeat.
That is really cool. Those good mares are the way to go in my mind.
Interesting , my yearling has Z swirls, he is lovely but matches your description a fair bit. Especially when it rains
gets goofy in the rain?
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt he doesn’t like it when it rains, he is grumpy, ears back, sometimes he will run and kick at the rain . Then he needs a lot of scratches to feel good again . He is a special character
@@NNLBC sounds like it
I have a diagonal double whorl. You're not wrong Brett.
Its uncanny how accurate it is
@adavis1989 We wrote down what we thought all the personal horses were, about a dozen, then went out to check. We were wrong on one. Watching I laughed and had to rewind to be sure, my own personal horse is a big red and white paint mare, with a white chin. I've had her 17 years, and yep she's still a tricky handful, but never boring!
@@bex1521 danged white chins
What about whorls under the mane mid neck right below where mane starts ????
that's in the next video about whorls so stay tuned
good
thanks
My filly has 4 on the forehead. 3 high in the forehead in an almost perfect triangle. The other center of the high eyeline. 😮
I would be very carful that I did everything right the first time.
Interesting topic! I think you meant IN UTERO, not in Vitro, which means in a test tube
yes that is what I meant and I did not know the difference, thank you
I have been picking up brood mares this summer those woralls mean more to me than names on paper. Have 11 all double tight side by side and the neck is almost to ears. Nice breeding helps but that's second. Damn skipper Ws will teach about those double tight at a angles.
I love Skipper W mares as much as I love Sugar Bar ones
@@lilmissstfu1126 didn't say I didn't like they are a working cowboys horse. You can wear one out work all day every day and they ask for more. Best thing for a young kid learning to start colts they have to learn you pick a fight they will finish
They sure will
Apparently most of the cowboys I have known were diagonal double whorls.
lol yep
I have a registered paint with very little coloring to indicate his breed. He pretty much looks like a sorrel qtr horse. He has 3 whorls on his forehead, one big one on his left side where the cinch goes, a couple on the side of his neck. Don't know what they all mean but I know that 2 yrs I could wrap him in a tarp and he played with it without care. I was riding him when on the trail came a team of 10 sled dogs pulling small 4 wheeler and he wanted to chase them! I had a Coyote in my paddock and he was chasing it, head down and ears laid back. I wanted to shoot but didn't dare for fear of hitting the horse.
You have the exception to the rule. Be glad
Ok, Brett, I just looked at a pretty blue roan filly that has 3 whorls on her forehead, what would you say could be expected? A friend bought her but I’m pretty leery .
I dont like three Whorls. Id say she's tough mentally and physically and maybe a hair cranky. Hope Im wrong
what if you have a foal with three whirls... just had a chestnut colt with a white chin with this😅
Start training early. Chestnut white chin colt is no big deal, fillies are hard. Swirls strait up and down or triangle?
I find that paint horses are somewhat goofy and are quick learners for tricks.
I always figured you have to watch a horse who can't decide what color to be lol
Well this confirmed a lot. My horse’s whorl is higher. Definitely sensitive and notices plenty.
kinda weird isn't it?
Hi there! so after watching this....what would be the best type for an intermediate western rider? suggestions anybody! thx!
15 hand quarter horse, any color.
Pick your breed (I prefer Morgans) but a whorl centered at eye level or a little above will usually be a horse that is pleasant and easy to get along with. Depending on your part of the discipline you may want to go that way or one a little higher if you want a horse that will meet more challenging work. Enjoy your riding!
Tight whorl directly in the middle between the eyes.
How can I send you a pic of my mustang that has 3 whorls on her forehead. I'd like to hear what you think her personality is
im willing to try. Davistraining83@gmail
What about a horse with whorls behind both eyes
Im not sure Iv seen that one. What is the horse like? Ill add it to my notes.
I had a double whorl Arab. He was a bit of a goof.
Its not an exact science but it gives a little insight. Iv known a few to be goofy with no whorls