Therapist here, I don’t agree with you when it comes to stimulation of the vagus nerve; from my own trauma experience I can tell you that some exercises are really regulating and this is also what my clients experience. It is not something to dismiss
Jesus Christ thank you Justin. Im in these freezes constantly and the clarifications you just gave are massively empowering... and not in a stupid corny "therapy" way. In the realest way
I’m not a therapist, but I’ve attended a 6 week workshop in Polyvagal Theory and previous to that attended a workshop in Internal Family Systems (IFS). It makes sense to me that if one has the knowledge of how to utilize IFS for one’s mental health, it has the capacity to affect one’s Polyvagal State because now one has learned how and why their triggers happen. When you know how and why your triggers happen, you can learn how to work with them so they won’t happen. You will become a more calm and happy person.
1. self-relationship reflection (THIS IS ESSENTIAL!) 2. the only failure is not doing/trying 3. no one is coming to save you 4. be the partner you want to have 5. turn down some things so that you can focus on the things that really matter TO YOU! 6. take responsibility 7. you give power to who you blame 8. generally: if you have to tell someone you ARE that, then you are NOT that 9. don't view exercise/dance/movement as an exchange for something 10. trust yourself 11. growth requires loss 12. fuck being normal 13. can't say 'no'? this makes your 'yes' meaningless 14. be careful and intentional and deliberate on how you define yourself 15. don't make assumptions 16. no one thinks about you that much 17. confidence comes from: comfort with failure 18. develop a willingness to be disliked/hated, and disapproved of 19. your tongue controls the direction of your life (SPEAK LIFE NOT DEATH!) 20. don’t trust in people, trust in GOD 21. stop living by the brainwashed-programmed rules and ideals of other people 22. be careful who you idealize 23. if you don’t change the way you see yourself, nothing else will change... 24. get VERY comfortable saying 'no' very loudly and clearly and honestly and firmly that being said, I want to die my life is hell with no escape so, I have a prayer: - health wealth love - deeper closer healthier connections with those whom I love - healing, on every level, in every way, for all of us - to be radically honest, with everyone, about everything - financial freedom - twin-flame (re)union (true and real love) - a tribe of true and real friends - to thrive off my talents and passions... - blissful magical wonderous joy, always, in all ways...
The way you teach explain it all so easily simply is Great its what people NEED its the best way to learn & understand SIMPLY So dont apologise for the way you teach it, people need this style of teaching more than anything right now 😊 others talk far too much (especially about themselves) they overexplain over complicate it all unnecessarily. Old & true saying: if one cant explain it simply, then one simply doesn't understand it! Thankyou many blessings to you always ❤
Thank you for confirming what I already sensed, that we don’t choose our polyvagal state/response. Yet I’ve had multiple therapists/social workers tell me that our polyvagal responses ARE a choice. Why is that? It’s very frustrating.
I can totally relate to the dominoes, since that is my way of describing what happened. My sisters suicide 12 years ago started the dominoes not just falling, but branching out in many directions.Along with that came other traumatic life changing events that aren't completely over, and probably never will be. I hover between freeze and shutdown, and have for years. I am pretty sure I am a zombie at this stage.
I'm sorry to hear all of that, but I'm glad that you're actively learning. I hope my content can be a helpful resource for you. I have lots of free stuff here and my podcast and blog.
Hi Justin, Thank you for creating such informative content! As a trauma survivor and therapist, I found it incredibly helpful. Deb Dana’s work has inspired me to incorporate Polyvagal Theory into my practice as a trauma therapist. I’m interested in how to apply this biological framework when working with individuals living with dementia, particularly those in sympathetic or dorsal states. I’m currently researching the Tree of Life methodology and can see how Polyvagal Theory might support these individuals in achieving regulation in the ventral vagal state. I would love to hear your thoughts on this!
Thank you!! But what I do not understand is how can I link this with the theory of the limbic system? (Amygdala...) I thought that this system is what puts us into fight/ flight or freeze/ shut down state... maybe you can do a video to this? I would really apreciate!! Thank you again!
rage consumes me grief cripples me debilitates me paralyzes me I want to die grief rapes me my soul is tortured I am breathless in my pain I am bereaved in despair hopeless helpless anguished and tormented and begging and waiting just to die all I do is suffer I'm in hell with no escape
So is it possible to settle the system and reach ventral stillness without having resolved all one’s stored traumas? The idea of stuck states is pretty confusing. Surely if there’s unresolved energy under the surface the body can’t settle. So we’d have to integrate all the energy before feeling safe and settled, and getting good rest.
It is possible to access safety, even stillness, without fully resolving the stuck trauma. It's actually very important to the process of trauma recovery to practice being in one's safety state. This does not fully release the trauma, but it does lay a solid platform for doing so. It can help to gain relief from the stuck defensive state and build distress tolerance. But there is still more work to be done, even when one has a lot of access to their safety state.
Thanks for your response Justin. I must admit I still find this quite confusing. If polyvagal states exist as a predictable hierarchy, how could someone reach out from shutdown to access safety if they haven’t yet moved through the sympathetic activation, apparently required to get to ventral? If they’re able to, then it would seem to make the ladder analogy pretty shaky. I get that it’s a metaphor, but it should still be an attempt to accurately represent the underlying process. I am a very literal thinker, so I get very tripped up by this kind of thing, when others seem to grasp things much more easily. It’s a real bummer..
Not in opposition, no. Because you can influence your state from the brain to the body too. Watch my videos on validation, normalization and giving permission that I recently released. I think working from the body to the brain, from the state first, is more effective though.
This is like super complicated! I just want to know how to calm this vagus nerve so, I can get on with my life! The flight fight starts with stress, so there's where you start! My first allegiance is to God so I need ways to turn, off this vagus nerve! Sure, counseling is wonderful but this info is extremely complex!
It really has nothing to do with “turning off” a vagus nerve. Maybe start with my Polyvagal Intro page on my website. Might be simpler - www.justinlmft.com/polyvagalintro
AS a 30year /+ clinician I can say that Polyvagal Theory is very helpful in Therapy, but it it has little to do with the theory of PV = I've read the scientific literature and peer reviews criticizing PV and therer's not enough evidence to validate the theories of why Polyvagal works in therapy, in particlular very little data/support for the theories around the vagus nerve's role.
I don't think he frames it as "vagal nerve stimulation." I might be wrong. I think he talks about it as "loosening" things through vibration. It's not something I do with my clients.
@@JustinLMFT curious as to why you don’t? I don’t know if it’s called that either but I’m assuming that’s what you’re doing when you vibrate it with that noise.
Therapist here, I don’t agree with you when it comes to stimulation of the vagus nerve; from my own trauma experience I can tell you that some exercises are really regulating and this is also what my clients experience. It is not something to dismiss
I appreciate the comment and disagreement, Elisa. What measurement devices are you using to validate that you are indeed “stimulating the vagus nerve”? Is there something you are doing to differentiate between the benefits of co-regulation or the belief that the client has that the techniques will be helpful?
Years and years of benign Counselors, one even falling asleep.every session, I'm so fortunate to have stumbled upon this term, Polyvagal. Thank You!
Therapist here, I don’t agree with you when it comes to stimulation of the vagus nerve; from my own trauma experience I can tell you that some exercises are really regulating and this is also what my clients experience. It is not something to dismiss
Jesus Christ thank you Justin. Im in these freezes constantly and the clarifications you just gave are massively empowering... and not in a stupid corny "therapy" way. In the realest way
You're welcome!
I’m not a therapist, but I’ve attended a 6 week workshop in Polyvagal Theory and previous to that attended a workshop in Internal Family Systems (IFS). It makes sense to me that if one has the knowledge of how to utilize IFS for one’s mental health, it has the capacity to affect one’s Polyvagal State because now one has learned how and why their triggers happen. When you know how and why your triggers happen, you can learn how to work with them so they won’t happen. You will become a more calm and happy person.
Bingo
1. self-relationship reflection (THIS IS ESSENTIAL!)
2. the only failure is not doing/trying
3. no one is coming to save you
4. be the partner you want to have
5. turn down some things so that you can focus on the things that really matter TO YOU!
6. take responsibility
7. you give power to who you blame
8. generally: if you have to tell someone you ARE that, then you are NOT that
9. don't view exercise/dance/movement as an exchange for something
10. trust yourself
11. growth requires loss
12. fuck being normal
13. can't say 'no'? this makes your 'yes' meaningless
14. be careful and intentional and deliberate on how you define yourself
15. don't make assumptions
16. no one thinks about you that much
17. confidence comes from: comfort with failure
18. develop a willingness to be disliked/hated, and disapproved of
19. your tongue controls the direction of your life (SPEAK LIFE NOT DEATH!)
20. don’t trust in people, trust in GOD
21. stop living by the brainwashed-programmed rules and ideals of other people
22. be careful who you idealize
23. if you don’t change the way you see yourself, nothing else will change...
24. get VERY comfortable saying 'no' very loudly and clearly and honestly and firmly
that being said,
I want to die
my life is hell
with no escape
so,
I have a prayer:
- health wealth love
- deeper closer healthier connections with those whom I love
- healing, on every level, in every way, for all of us
- to be radically honest, with everyone, about everything
- financial freedom
- twin-flame (re)union (true and real love)
- a tribe of true and real friends
- to thrive off my talents and passions...
- blissful magical wonderous joy, always, in all ways...
The way you teach explain it all so easily simply is Great its what people NEED its the best way to learn & understand SIMPLY
So dont apologise for the way you teach it, people need this style of teaching more than anything right now 😊 others talk far too much (especially about themselves) they overexplain over complicate it all unnecessarily.
Old & true saying: if one cant explain it simply, then one simply doesn't understand it!
Thankyou many blessings to you always ❤
Thank you for confirming what I already sensed, that we don’t choose our polyvagal state/response. Yet I’ve had multiple therapists/social workers tell me that our polyvagal responses ARE a choice. Why is that? It’s very frustrating.
Probably because they misunderstand the theory.
I really appreciate this channel for deepening my knowledge. You really deliver it all so calmly and clearly
Happy to hear that! Thanks for leaving a comment. 😀
Thanks!!!!!! I feel a shift but need more assistance. This gives me more insight.
Thanks for sharing. This is new to me as I’ve never heard of this before yet I think I’ve been continuously doing this since I was a kid.
Came here via your interview on the “holistic psychologist”. Ty so much for this info and channel.
You're super welcome, thanks for coming by!
I can totally relate to the dominoes, since that is my way of describing what happened. My sisters suicide 12 years ago started the dominoes not just falling, but branching out in many directions.Along with that came other traumatic life changing events that aren't completely over, and probably never will be. I hover between freeze and shutdown, and have for years. I am pretty sure I am a zombie at this stage.
I'm sorry to hear all of that, but I'm glad that you're actively learning. I hope my content can be a helpful resource for you. I have lots of free stuff here and my podcast and blog.
❤
Sending so much Love
Same here.
Excellent! Easy peasy! You explained that beautifully. I love learning about stuff like this. Thank you
You're really welcome, glad you liked it!
Ive watched this and rewatched it. Theres alot of really great information here!
Glad it’s helpful, Roberta! I have a lot of free resources on my site to deepen your learning - www.justinlmft.com
Very clear and helpful. Thank you.
You are welcome!
Hi Justin,
Thank you for creating such informative content! As a trauma survivor and therapist, I found it incredibly helpful. Deb Dana’s work has inspired me to incorporate Polyvagal Theory into my practice as a trauma therapist.
I’m interested in how to apply this biological framework when working with individuals living with dementia, particularly those in sympathetic or dorsal states. I’m currently researching the Tree of Life methodology and can see how Polyvagal Theory might support these individuals in achieving regulation in the ventral vagal state.
I would love to hear your thoughts on this!
You're way ahead of me on this! This is an area I can't speak to.
I am glad you reminded us to not think of the theory too literally re: vagus nerve.
no problem, thanks for the comment :)
Great explanation! Thanks ❤
Glad it was helpful!
I've made a Breakthrough! I can't thank you enough!
You're welcome!
Thank you!! But what I do not understand is how can I link this with the theory of the limbic system? (Amygdala...) I thought that this system is what puts us into fight/ flight or freeze/ shut down state... maybe you can do a video to this? I would really apreciate!! Thank you again!
That's not a bad idea! Thanks for the suggestion.
I never imagined that what I'm experiencing has a title or diagnosis the laws of excessive weight and sleeping so much
Great explanation. I wonder if you have an explanation of where Psychosis sits with the Polyvagal theory?
I sadly don't. It's not something I've seen discussed anywhere. And I don't have enough direct work with psychosis to have helpful thoughts on it.
rage consumes me
grief cripples me
debilitates me
paralyzes me
I want to die
grief rapes me
my soul is tortured
I am breathless in my pain
I am bereaved in despair
hopeless
helpless
anguished and tormented
and begging and waiting just to die
all I do is suffer
I'm in hell with no escape
Why is this also considered limbic system impairment? Like with programs that help retrain the brain with neuroplasticity. Thank you!
So is it possible to settle the system and reach ventral stillness without having resolved all one’s stored traumas?
The idea of stuck states is pretty confusing. Surely if there’s unresolved energy under the surface the body can’t settle. So we’d have to integrate all the energy before feeling safe and settled, and getting good rest.
It is possible to access safety, even stillness, without fully resolving the stuck trauma. It's actually very important to the process of trauma recovery to practice being in one's safety state. This does not fully release the trauma, but it does lay a solid platform for doing so. It can help to gain relief from the stuck defensive state and build distress tolerance. But there is still more work to be done, even when one has a lot of access to their safety state.
Thanks for your response Justin. I must admit I still find this quite confusing.
If polyvagal states exist as a predictable hierarchy, how could someone reach out from shutdown to access safety if they haven’t yet moved through the sympathetic activation, apparently required to get to ventral?
If they’re able to, then it would seem to make the ladder analogy pretty shaky. I get that it’s a metaphor, but it should still be an attempt to accurately represent the underlying process.
I am a very literal thinker, so I get very tripped up by this kind of thing, when others seem to grasp things much more easily. It’s a real bummer..
YES!! YES!! YES!!! Im.a Newbie and you described me to a T!
Thank you so much.
You're welcome!
I am a total beginner and think i need to look into it...i have chronic stress and HPA axis dysregulation. Later...
Many thanks Justin
Absolutely! Thanks again for leaving a comment!
If it’s biology first and that the state changes does this theory work in opposition of CBT premise you feel how you think?
Not in opposition, no. Because you can influence your state from the brain to the body too. Watch my videos on validation, normalization and giving permission that I recently released. I think working from the body to the brain, from the state first, is more effective though.
Great explanation! Thanks for sharing
My pleasure!
Thanks😌
Welcome 😊
This is like super complicated! I just want to know how to calm this vagus nerve so, I can get on with my life! The flight fight starts with stress, so there's where you start! My first allegiance is to God so I need ways to turn, off this vagus nerve! Sure, counseling is wonderful but this info is extremely complex!
It really has nothing to do with “turning off” a vagus nerve. Maybe start with my Polyvagal Intro page on my website. Might be simpler - www.justinlmft.com/polyvagalintro
Then don’t watch a video that says polyvagal for beginners 🙄
AS a 30year /+ clinician I can say that Polyvagal Theory is very helpful in Therapy, but it it has little to do with the theory of PV = I've read the scientific literature and peer reviews criticizing PV and therer's not enough evidence to validate the theories of why Polyvagal works in therapy, in particlular very little data/support for the theories around the vagus nerve's role.
🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
Doesn’t peter Levine use Vegas nerve stimulation. Vooooo
I don't think he frames it as "vagal nerve stimulation." I might be wrong. I think he talks about it as "loosening" things through vibration. It's not something I do with my clients.
@@JustinLMFT curious as to why you don’t? I don’t know if it’s called that either but I’m assuming that’s what you’re doing when you vibrate it with that noise.
What if you are autistic? You process things differently
Therapist here, I don’t agree with you when it comes to stimulation of the vagus nerve; from my own trauma experience I can tell you that some exercises are really regulating and this is also what my clients experience. It is not something to dismiss
I appreciate the comment and disagreement, Elisa. What measurement devices are you using to validate that you are indeed “stimulating the vagus nerve”? Is there something you are doing to differentiate between the benefits of co-regulation or the belief that the client has that the techniques will be helpful?