LoL heard the same thing in a video of a Haley fight - check it here @1:35 (th-cam.com/video/APTUv1ETNgg/w-d-xo.html). hearing it said twice within 5 minutes was hilarious
One could argue that Ryan Reaves is a full time enforcer. Played 79 games. He only had 6 fights (top 10) but that is because no one wants to fight the guy. Part of being an enforcer is "keeping the peace". RR can do that without fighting. Every opponent knows what he can and will do if anyone gets out of line. So maybe there are only 2 enforcers left. :)
These types of videos are awesome. I'd really like to see more stuff like this from you. Breaking down some interesting stats/facts like these. Awesome work as always Steve!!
It’s actually safer with fighting in the game because of the thought of what might happen. You won’t hit somebody in the head or from behind which could end careers if you know you can get beat up for it. Enforcers have just evolved into guys that can skate, score, and fight and protect their teammates. Enforcers have sort of changed into power forwards. No current NHL players want fighting out of the game and if you think fighting should be taken out you probably either never played at a high level or you were just a bad teammate. You always need to stick up for your teammates when cheap shots happen no matter what. And if you ban dropping the gloves players will fight with their gloves on. If you ban that too they will fight in the parking lot if they have too.
Mattrick 64 this is true. I’m playing now (I’m 16), and I’m talking to multiple junior teams and colleges. If someone runs me (I’m a goalie), they get destroyed by my teammates. But look at Lundqvist. Not saying he’s necessarily a bad teammate, but he gets insanely competitive and blames his d-men a lot. There was an incident a few years ago (I don’t remember exactly when), where he was run over, and none of his teammates stood up for him. Idk if it’s because they thought he could handle it or any other reason, but they didn’t
I would argue Ryan Reaves is the best enforcer in the league right now, considering how no one actually wants to fight him out of sheer intimidation. Blues fan here, I've seen the man's play style for many years. Hes an enforcer, and a damn good one.
I think you touched on the main issue in the video: "you can be an enforcer, but you have to do something else." With the salary cap, most teams just can't afford to have someone that can only punch people then sit in the box.
New Mic stuff sounds awesome. First thing that I noticed though maybe because I was listening for it. The new wall looks great too. Even if that shelf isn't level ;)
I believe fighting has a place in the game in a minimized role, basically to try and keep specific players in line and low cheap shots. perhaps eliminating the loser point. so now you have teams that in January have zero chance of making the playoffs. Therefore players immediately start playing for jobs next season and if you can’t score every game you try laying big hits or fighting. Things that players don’t do as often when their actions can badly hurt their team. we may see a slight comeback but nothing like it was. In my humble opinion.
The cool thing about Tom Wilson is he doesn't HAVE to fight to be an Enforcer, players are scared of him just based off of reputation and the ability to score.
Stamkos lead Tampa in penalty minutes last year. Enforcers are reaching a point where they have to be able to kill penaltys or put up some points to be in he game
I am just so happy the Caps have Tom W. For a lot of the things you mentioned. He is considered an enforcer type in today’s game but he is more then that.
Robbie Gross as much as i think his contract is garbage i think he’s needed on a team because he’s one of those players i hate seeing my team play against
Great vid Steve! Personally, I believe that the role of the enforcer in hockey has been belittled lately in the NHL because the league doesn’t want to come across as a violent sport to attract different audiences, but screw that, violence and fighting has always been apart of the game, a great example being the summit series back in the day, and those were the good old times, so I say screw the NHL, let there be a nice balance between new and old time hockey, bring the enforcer back!
I basically agree that he is the last full time enforcer based on all the stats you brought up with valid points backing them. Reaves did come to mind as well as many commentors I see, however, I don't watch his games often. If others are right and his fight stats aren't as high because opposing players refuse and are scared to fight him, he's still enforcing and it's not his fault. I remember when he was traded for the late round first, the talk was that even though it was a very late first and Reaves came with a early 2nd it was a big deal because it still was an enforcer being traded for that 1st rounder. Also I don't think full time enforcers will make a big come back, but I think the part time enforcer will stay around/make a comeback, coaches can use low cost enforcers for rivalry games, or teams with bigger grittier players, etc.
JMC Film Co. domi and McSorley had over 100 career goals. Tucker had over 200 goals. Even the legendary Flyer enforcer Dave “the Hammer” Scultz contributed to the point sheet with 200 points in 535 NHL games. The best enforcers in NHL were renowned for their fighting but just as as dangerous in other ways. All NHL enforcers today are expected to be what I would call hybrid enforcers: great fighters but also pretty punishing in other areas of the game
Shlomo Jesin fair enough I just miss the old days. There aren't really any fights any more. I loved Matt Martin on the Leafs and hate the NHL has changed to make a player like him obsolete. Just wish it was like it used to if you fucked with the star player you had to watch out for the enforcer next shift
I don't miss half of the guys you mentionned. Most of them had trouble skating and holding the puck for more than 3 seconds.... None of them were even close to Tiger Williams or Dale Hunter. Those were real enfiorcers. They fought anyone who stood in their way, while scoring 20 goals per season.
I like a good mix of hockey and fighting in hockey, I don’t want the fighting to die but I want the fighting to stay alive. Not to the point that it happens every second but just a good mix.
That question "is haley the last full time enforcer in the league?" Hits a little bit. I remember the 90s where goons came out of the box swinging only to skate back to the locker chirping the whole way. What a paradigm shift.
there are still a lot of non official fight after the whistle tho.. most of the time its hand washing but couple of punch there too, especially in playoff. teams can't afford to have enforcer only guys that do only one thing. The new genre are guys like Tom Wilson, the enforcer term is evolving along with hockey. edit well i wrote this comment while watching your vid, now I look like all i did was copying your opinion ._.
I personally don't think fighting has any place in the modern game. I agree with Steve that in the modern game you need to have more than one skill set. However, whenever I see a fight in hockey now I use it as a bathroom break because who cares. I've played hockey a long time and never once thought fighting was worth the time. I like a good clean hard hit, and to retaliate you return a good clean hard hit. If it's a dirty hit then the player get's punished, there are rules that are enforced by refs, fighting gets a penalty, which means it's not allowed.
I got a feeling Haley will play a lot fewer games with some kids like Tippet and Borgstrom coming up, then again the Panthers coach was called "The Boogie Man" during his playing days so he may keep playing Haley regardless
Every team needs somebody willing to drop the gloves and defend his teammates. It doesn’t have to be a full enforcer it can just be a third or fourth line player. But you always need somebody to help out your star players.
I feel like the third and fourth line are becoming much more important to your teams success in games. Also I think the danger of being an enforcer is being brought to light and a lot of people are more weary to just fight and nothing else, considering a lot of enforcers end up with so much brain damage and chronic pain and mental illnesses that a lot of them turn to drugs and alcohol and sometimes end up murdering their family or someone or just committing suicide. A third thing I think help contributes to the lack of enforcers is the fact that the players keep getting more and more skilled, as they do in any sport. With better training methods and gear, etc. So you can’t just waste a spot on a guy who can’t play very well, but can crack skulls, bc you’d be disadvantaged with having a meh player up against Kane or Crosby or something. All of these combined have lead to the decline in enforcers. I believe and hope that fighting stays a core part of the sport but I’m fine with the role of the enforcer going away. I don’t think it will make a come back.
Boxing is awesome, the original sport, one of the greatest sports of all time. Fighting in hockey has always been dumb and awkward and mostly unnecessary. Boxing is gentlemen sport with actual rules and code of honor, fighting is violence and never okay. I'm a hockey guy to the heart and soul, have followed hockey more than 30 years, never accepted fighting thou.
GOONMRKAY this is pretty Canadian of me, but thanks for adding your opinion to the conversation even though we disagree on the topic. I do agree with some of ur points, but fighting in hockey is not dumb nor awkward. If someone checks my teams best player in the head, then it is my job to beat the living shit out of them. I was the enforcer on my team and everyone knew, accepted, and the best players needed my services. Not because they liked to see me fight, but they needed my protection.
There are some truth to that i suppose, however...the whole eye for an eye (or similar) thing is elementary and ancient times stuff, really not par with current times. People (as players) need to be less aggressive and more progressive,productive. Caveman thinking is (should be) ancient history. Let other people decide after the game what is proper penalty/punishment for the actions of that particular player, you as a player should focus on the game itself and help your team to win, not retaliate stupidity with stupidity, best "revenge" is always a goal, instead of a fighting major. Maybe this is entirely a cultural thing; i'm from Finland, you are from Canada as much as we are alike, we (Finns) see ice hockey differently. We good my Canadian hockey brother?
All that said, when Washington plays Toronto, Tom Wilson is going to be running around trying to hurt Marner, Nylander, Matthews and Tavares. If the Leafs had a guy like Reaves, he might prevent the running around by posing a threat to a guy like Backstrom.
GOONMRKAY Fighting in hockey was never really supposed to be a graceful display. It is really just a fight with some really simple rules, but it has its place in the game as a way for players to get the hate out. It's like a coolant system for the players involved, they get too hot, they fight it out while knowing the consequences, and take their 5 minutes. You also have to take into account that rarely do fights ever get taken that personally, and even rarer are fights that will continue despite the ref resulting in serious repercussion. I know what you mean by not liking fighting in hockey on principle of it being the equivalent of a street brawl, but in terms of rules and respect it's a little closer to boxing than it is to just "a fight"
To be honest, regardless of whether you like fighting or not, seeing the enforcer go is kinda bittersweet. As a kid I loved a good fight, but after seeing what happened to Boogard, I can't help but worry about the health of the players when they fight.
its different today, because its almost like every team is super close and every team has so much talent generally. its almost like most of the teams have super stars. and enforcers would protect players like Crosby. SO because teams are so good now, they dont need jus someone that can beat up and fight but also guys that can score (wayne simmonds, tom wilson). my personal opinion is, enoforcers are good.. sometimes i feel thats what a team needs. (cough cough) my Rangers.. lord knows we need alot more though.
The instigator penalty is why fighting has declined so sharply. I wrote my senior thesis on fighting in hockey last semester. There should be more fights this year, solely based on the previous year being a historical low during the regular season. Profits, attendance, injuries, ratings, and regional breakdowns of these categories and their relationship with fighting is quite an interesting dive. The simple answer is America likes fighting more, and has been proven to increase attendance specifically in the AHL in the States. Consider where Haley ranks among Panthers in jersey sales, I would bet it's above some of his teammates with higher point totals. Why is Wednesday night rivalry night marketed? The main problem the NHL has is that casual/non fans poll much lower in favor of fighting compared to hardcore fans. The NHL under Bettman has been pretty focused on growth. I would argue that their NBC tv contract matters much more than whatever they try and do with fighting. A Seattle expansion, net front deflections, and stretch passes should all help keep fighting in hockey. My argument would be that the NHL should want enforcers. Hardcore fans love them, and they should increase goal scoring due to their lack of skill, making superstars' numbers increase. The alternate route is to curb fighting to appeal to casuals and increase penalties to inflate goal totals, sound familiar? The modern (regular season) game is entirely built to appeal to casuals. I have like 15 more pages on this, it's just kinda sad...
Someone mentioned Ryan Reaves who I'd consider an enforcer. But I think with the Panthers, is the issue that they don't have a Tom Wilson type Power Forward and they can't get one? Is that why maybe they're settling for an enforcer? Maybe it's because the roster is really young overall and they don't want people messing with the kids? I love me some Jonathan Huberdeau but he's not gonna fight a guy.
I'm not sure if full time enforcer will make a comeback. I think teams will keep a part time enforcer just in case. Remember that game when Ottawa played Carkner just to fight Boyle because he touched Karlsson? I think that's more likely to be the norm. That way you don't have to deal with crappy player taking a spot when you don't need them.
"Look, we can talk about hockey's place in the game" - Surely you meant to say 'fighting's place in the game' but I'm going to believe that you were making a purposeful slip to be funny, right? Right? Did I just kill a joke by explaining it or did I catch a real slip up? Glad to see you back Dangle. Get ready for this season ... you'll be doing a lot of screaming "Leafs Win!"
Reaves is THE guy. Imo of course. Nobody wants to fight him, otherwise he’d be #1. Dude is a monster and he has offensive upside. Toughest player in the game according to Grapes lol
In terms of skill i actually don't mind Haley on the 4th line. As long as he is hitting and beating up opponents, i'm all for him playing a full season.
Very happy to have Stanley Cup Champion Big Tom Strong Hockey Wilson on our team, although he did get an overpaid contract but oh well. I'd rather have him than have to worry about him.
Fights were up in the playoffs last season. The Leafs got roughed up in the Boston series. Tom Wilson will be running around if the Leafs meet them in the playoffs. It would behoove the Leafs if they had a guy who could put a stop to that.
As much as it saddens me that enforcers and fighting are down, I don't see it making a come back. The only way you might see one in your lineup, is if for example Haley was taking liberties on key players from other teams. Like tried to throw a cheap shot at guys like Crosby, Matthews, Tavares, McDavid, and that team needed some for of response. Even then those players are good enough that they can play around and away from guys like him. Cause if you aren't fighting or completing body checks, Enforcers are huge non-factors in the game.
I think the enforcer roles has transitioned to the instigator role. Why take 1 player from each team off the ice if you have a guy like say Andrew Shaw who is good at getting under people's skin and can draw penalties, while also being a productive scorer/defender
i want to see how florida did in those 7 games he didn’t play, whether it was down the stretch when they were hot or the first half of the season when they were mediocre. small sample size but it’d be cool to see if haley really had an effect on the outcome of their games
Alex Higgins yea that would be cool to see. I think they would be better with him in the lineup though. I watched a Boston vs Florida game last season and Haley noticed that the panthers were playing badly and decided that he was going to fight Adam mcquaid. Florida still ended up losing but after that fight they played much better.
The 7 games he didn't play in: Apr 8 @BOS, W 4-2 Mar 29 @OTT, OTL 2-3 Mar 28 @TOR, L 3-4 Mar 24 vs ARI, W 4-2 Mar 19 @MTL, W 2-0 Mar 15 vs BOS, W 3-0 Dec 19 @ARI, W 3-2 Which is 5-1-1. The Panthers' overall record was 44-30-8.
goodmorning819 hm so my suspicions were kind of right, game in dec against arizona is a right off since arizona was terrible first half but the other 6 were right down the stretch when they were red hot and just barely missed the playoffs. interesting, thanks!
Fighting isnt a thing anymore. Basically all it does is leave your team short handed. Its slowly being phased out of the game. Why have a guy whos only job is to fight when you can fill those minutes with a guy who can add to the team by getting goals/Assists. Martin was a great 2 way player, great for the pk, not now but was. You basically need a guy like a Wilson, Marchand or even Kadri who can do it all and add to fights if need be.but I think the role of a guy whos just an enforcer is done.
Incase you haven’t seen it already you really should watch the Netflix documentary “Ice Guardians” plus it is always a good pump up for the upcoming hockey season
Fighting in hockey is gonna continue to decrease over the next few years then some new kid is gonna come along and start fighting people and become the next enforcer then more teams are gonna join in and it’ll be like the 80s again. It’s a revolving door
Number of fights is not enough to make an enforcer. Ryan Reaves is an enforcer even though he didn't fight nearly as much as Haley. That's because no one wants to fight him - he's probably the toughest guy in the league. Lots of people are willing to fight Haley, apparently. So who is the better 'enforcer'?
Love you Steve. Love the new Blue room watched the 2 hours! Of live broad cast. Fighting will always be a part of hockey to let off steam safely. I am pro player safety. But then again... facts. No Matt Martin is still an enforcer. When he plays Ask Don Cherry. Still ready to March. On that book.
I love that hockey has a place in the game
Me too. I can rest easy now, knowing that fact is known to me ;)
lmao had to do a double take.
it's a fighting league no?
LoL heard the same thing in a video of a Haley fight - check it here @1:35 (th-cam.com/video/APTUv1ETNgg/w-d-xo.html). hearing it said twice within 5 minutes was hilarious
We live in a society
One could argue that Ryan Reaves is a full time enforcer. Played 79 games. He only had 6 fights (top 10) but that is because no one wants to fight the guy. Part of being an enforcer is "keeping the peace". RR can do that without fighting. Every opponent knows what he can and will do if anyone gets out of line. So maybe there are only 2 enforcers left. :)
Michael Price Reaves scores big goals though
What can he really do though? If someone hits a star on his team and they don't want to engage him what's he going to do?
He can run the star on the other team through the boards and there won't be a thing anyone can do about it
Gordon Graham Not really much hope of him being on the ice the same time a star player is if he only plays 6 minutes
Hello There Folks yes he does...he can actually play the game as well.
Hockey has no place in hockey anymore, I'm tired of when I'm watching hockey and there is hockey. When will it end?
Hollis THE AGONY!
Remember when the AHL was going to a fight and maybe seeing a hockey game break out?
@@cjvs1604 echl still has what you're looking for
r/hadastroke
i remember michael haley came over my house for a party back when he played for hartford in the ahl, he was chugging beers through a snorkel
Hockeys place in the game haha
Nailed it 😂
BridgewatersFinest Steve went to a fight and a hockey game broke out
I feel that Hockey's place in the game is pretty important.
Ryan Day nah get rid of it replace it with goaltender interference
These types of videos are awesome. I'd really like to see more stuff like this from you. Breaking down some interesting stats/facts like these. Awesome work as always Steve!!
I hope Ryan Reaves can get some good fights in this upcoming year!!!!
He usually doesn't have a ton because most guys know better to fight that animal
I suspect he'll have something to say to Wilson about the Marchessault hit when they play Washington.
Exactly because he literally does boxing in the offseason
He’s a tough little bastard out there, he can fuckin’ bang
yeah, everyone is scared hah
I miss Jordan Tootoo
jtmethod125 me too
Yooo. The sound is so much better. Less echo, and it’s more direct.
Yup. I agree. Uncalled for critique-background seemed too busy to me. Need to be not so close to the camera. Just a touch
It’s actually safer with fighting in the game because of the thought of what might happen. You won’t hit somebody in the head or from behind which could end careers if you know you can get beat up for it. Enforcers have just evolved into guys that can skate, score, and fight and protect their teammates. Enforcers have sort of changed into power forwards. No current NHL players want fighting out of the game and if you think fighting should be taken out you probably either never played at a high level or you were just a bad teammate. You always need to stick up for your teammates when cheap shots happen no matter what. And if you ban dropping the gloves players will fight with their gloves on. If you ban that too they will fight in the parking lot if they have too.
Mattrick 64 this is true. I’m playing now (I’m 16), and I’m talking to multiple junior teams and colleges. If someone runs me (I’m a goalie), they get destroyed by my teammates. But look at Lundqvist. Not saying he’s necessarily a bad teammate, but he gets insanely competitive and blames his d-men a lot. There was an incident a few years ago (I don’t remember exactly when), where he was run over, and none of his teammates stood up for him. Idk if it’s because they thought he could handle it or any other reason, but they didn’t
Mattrick 64 just imagine what good teams would do against bad teams like Boston if Boston wasn’t just goons
AggressivelySpicy Highlights2673 dummy
iBrxdleyy oh I’m the dummy?
AggressivelySpicy Highlights2673 how is Boston a bad team if they just beat the leafs in the playoffs.
I would argue Ryan Reaves is the best enforcer in the league right now, considering how no one actually wants to fight him out of sheer intimidation. Blues fan here, I've seen the man's play style for many years. Hes an enforcer, and a damn good one.
Amen
The 90's and the 2000's are over, he is truly one of a kind
Run Laine and see if you don't have Byfuglien rag dolling you next shift.
Very good video. I think Haley is the last enforcer in the NHL.
This is a great video Steve. We need more of these
Respect for Haley. One of (if not) his last tilt was against Adam McQuaid.
if hails comes back to the isles, we will kill everyone. I'll do some talking to him.
Hey Steve, I know you have a big head and all, but do yourself a favor and back it up a bit.
adalaza I agree
Onair Odisho hey onair odisho I laughed too
I think you touched on the main issue in the video: "you can be an enforcer, but you have to do something else." With the salary cap, most teams just can't afford to have someone that can only punch people then sit in the box.
New Mic stuff sounds awesome. First thing that I noticed though maybe because I was listening for it. The new wall looks great too. Even if that shelf isn't level ;)
mark borowiecki is one of the tough guy when his healthy
Mic sounds great! Good to see the Blue room back in action, looks good
I believe fighting has a place in the game in a minimized role, basically to try and keep specific players in line and low cheap shots. perhaps eliminating the loser point. so now you have teams that in January have zero chance of making the playoffs. Therefore players immediately start playing for jobs next season and if you can’t score every game you try laying big hits or fighting. Things that players don’t do as often when their actions can badly hurt their team. we may see a slight comeback but nothing like it was. In my humble opinion.
Happy the room's back together and we're getting videos again :) oh .. any update on the book? Keep it up man!
The cool thing about Tom Wilson is he doesn't HAVE to fight to be an Enforcer, players are scared of him just based off of reputation and the ability to score.
Tom Wilson is exactly why you need a goon.
Lion.Fire Tom Wilson is why we need goons
It can’t be a reputation whenever it is full truth
Guys keep away from him because they don't want to catch a broken jaw on a cheap shot.
Being the biggest rat in the game doesnt make you "cool" lmao. Wilson can go kick rocks.
STEVE!!!! The video sounds WAYYYY BETTER NOW!!! Stay awesome bro!
Stamkos lead Tampa in penalty minutes last year. Enforcers are reaching a point where they have to be able to kill penaltys or put up some points to be in he game
Thank you for being entertaining I love ur channel you truely are an entertainer with good information
YAY Stevie D videos! October is like 6 weeks away. YES YES YES!
I am just so happy the Caps have Tom W. For a lot of the things you mentioned. He is considered an enforcer type in today’s game but he is more then that.
Robbie Gross as much as i think his contract is garbage i think he’s needed on a team because he’s one of those players i hate seeing my team play against
I love Haley. As a sharks fan, I wish they never got rid of him. He flew under the radar of most, but I always appreciated him.
I can't wait for this season to start. Please make more videos in the meantime lol.
Great vid Steve! Personally, I believe that the role of the enforcer in hockey has been belittled lately in the NHL because the league doesn’t want to come across as a violent sport to attract different audiences, but screw that, violence and fighting has always been apart of the game, a great example being the summit series back in the day, and those were the good old times, so I say screw the NHL, let there be a nice balance between new and old time hockey, bring the enforcer back!
Compared to your LFR videos last season, you are SO close to the camera.
I basically agree that he is the last full time enforcer based on all the stats you brought up with valid points backing them. Reaves did come to mind as well as many commentors I see, however, I don't watch his games often. If others are right and his fight stats aren't as high because opposing players refuse and are scared to fight him, he's still enforcing and it's not his fault. I remember when he was traded for the late round first, the talk was that even though it was a very late first and Reaves came with a early 2nd it was a big deal because it still was an enforcer being traded for that 1st rounder.
Also I don't think full time enforcers will make a big come back, but I think the part time enforcer will stay around/make a comeback, coaches can use low cost enforcers for rivalry games, or teams with bigger grittier players, etc.
YEAH!!!!! Glad to see your back, really prefer this over the podcasts!!!
man I miss the old NHL. Miss the old time Enforcers ie. Tie Domi, Darcy Tucker, Paros, laraque, mccsorley, Brashear, Colton Orr
JMC Film Co. domi and McSorley had over 100 career goals. Tucker had over 200 goals. Even the legendary Flyer enforcer Dave “the Hammer” Scultz contributed to the point sheet with 200 points in 535 NHL games. The best enforcers in NHL were renowned for their fighting but just as as dangerous in other ways. All NHL enforcers today are expected to be what I would call hybrid enforcers: great fighters but also pretty punishing in other areas of the game
Shlomo Jesin fair enough I just miss the old days. There aren't really any fights any more. I loved Matt Martin on the Leafs and hate the NHL has changed to make a player like him obsolete. Just wish it was like it used to if you fucked with the star player you had to watch out for the enforcer next shift
I don't miss half of the guys you mentionned. Most of them had trouble skating and holding the puck for more than 3 seconds.... None of them were even close to Tiger Williams or Dale Hunter. Those were real enfiorcers. They fought anyone who stood in their way, while scoring 20 goals per season.
JMC Film Co. They must miss the good ol' days when they didn't have permanent long term brain damage
JMC Film Co. nice Research
I cant believe you actually made that joke from the podcast into a shirt
I like a good mix of hockey and fighting in hockey, I don’t want the fighting to die but I want the fighting to stay alive. Not to the point that it happens every second but just a good mix.
missed you Steve. Go Leafs Go
That question "is haley the last full time enforcer in the league?" Hits a little bit. I remember the 90s where goons came out of the box swinging only to skate back to the locker chirping the whole way. What a paradigm shift.
there are still a lot of non official fight after the whistle tho.. most of the time its hand washing but couple of punch there too, especially in playoff. teams can't afford to have enforcer only guys that do only one thing. The new genre are guys like Tom Wilson, the enforcer term is evolving along with hockey.
edit well i wrote this comment while watching your vid, now I look like all i did was copying your opinion ._.
Sounds fantastic Steve, weird purple clam thing ftw.
I personally don't think fighting has any place in the modern game. I agree with Steve that in the modern game you need to have more than one skill set. However, whenever I see a fight in hockey now I use it as a bathroom break because who cares. I've played hockey a long time and never once thought fighting was worth the time. I like a good clean hard hit, and to retaliate you return a good clean hard hit. If it's a dirty hit then the player get's punished, there are rules that are enforced by refs, fighting gets a penalty, which means it's not allowed.
I got a feeling Haley will play a lot fewer games with some kids like Tippet and Borgstrom coming up, then again the Panthers coach was called "The Boogie Man" during his playing days so he may keep playing Haley regardless
I've never wanted a summer to end faster in my life
Every team needs somebody willing to drop the gloves and defend his teammates. It doesn’t have to be a full enforcer it can just be a third or fourth line player. But you always need somebody to help out your star players.
Sounds about right, the "enforcer" has been replaced by "hockey players that also fight. Sometimes".
Steve, love ya... but the lighting's a little funny in this vid. Keep up the great content!
Bob Probert, Marty McSorley and Tiger Williams played regular shifts and were contributors. And they certainly were enforcers.
I feel like the third and fourth line are becoming much more important to your teams success in games. Also I think the danger of being an enforcer is being brought to light and a lot of people are more weary to just fight and nothing else, considering a lot of enforcers end up with so much brain damage and chronic pain and mental illnesses that a lot of them turn to drugs and alcohol and sometimes end up murdering their family or someone or just committing suicide. A third thing I think help contributes to the lack of enforcers is the fact that the players keep getting more and more skilled, as they do in any sport. With better training methods and gear, etc. So you can’t just waste a spot on a guy who can’t play very well, but can crack skulls, bc you’d be disadvantaged with having a meh player up against Kane or Crosby or something. All of these combined have lead to the decline in enforcers. I believe and hope that fighting stays a core part of the sport but I’m fine with the role of the enforcer going away. I don’t think it will make a come back.
I miss fighting, don't get me wrong I love the game, but fighting is great
Boxing is awesome, the original sport, one of the greatest sports of all time.
Fighting in hockey has always been dumb and awkward and mostly unnecessary.
Boxing is gentlemen sport with actual rules and code of honor, fighting is violence and never okay.
I'm a hockey guy to the heart and soul, have followed hockey more than 30 years, never accepted
fighting thou.
GOONMRKAY this is pretty Canadian of me, but thanks for adding your opinion to the conversation even though we disagree on the topic. I do agree with some of ur points, but fighting in hockey is not dumb nor awkward. If someone checks my teams best player in the head, then it is my job to beat the living shit out of them. I was the enforcer on my team and everyone knew, accepted, and the best players needed my services. Not because they liked to see me fight, but they needed my protection.
There are some truth to that i suppose, however...the whole eye for an eye (or similar) thing is elementary
and ancient times stuff, really not par with current times. People (as players) need to be less aggressive
and more progressive,productive. Caveman thinking is (should be) ancient history.
Let other people decide after the game what is proper penalty/punishment for the actions of that particular player,
you as a player should focus on the game itself and help your team to win, not retaliate stupidity with stupidity,
best "revenge" is always a goal, instead of a fighting major.
Maybe this is entirely a cultural thing; i'm from Finland, you are from Canada
as much as we are alike, we (Finns) see ice hockey differently.
We good my Canadian hockey brother?
All that said, when Washington plays Toronto, Tom Wilson is going to be running around trying to hurt Marner, Nylander, Matthews and Tavares. If the Leafs had a guy like Reaves, he might prevent the running around by posing a threat to a guy like Backstrom.
GOONMRKAY Fighting in hockey was never really supposed to be a graceful display. It is really just a fight with some really simple rules, but it has its place in the game as a way for players to get the hate out. It's like a coolant system for the players involved, they get too hot, they fight it out while knowing the consequences, and take their 5 minutes.
You also have to take into account that rarely do fights ever get taken that personally, and even rarer are fights that will continue despite the ref resulting in serious repercussion.
I know what you mean by not liking fighting in hockey on principle of it being the equivalent of a street brawl, but in terms of rules and respect it's a little closer to boxing than it is to just "a fight"
Posted 3 mins ago
On a random TH-cam search nice lol
Hey Steve
As a Caps fan, you're right. Willy isn't an enforcer, he's an overpaid goon.
0:17 Yes!! Let's talk about "hockey's place in the game"!! ... hehe
To be honest, regardless of whether you like fighting or not, seeing the enforcer go is kinda bittersweet. As a kid I loved a good fight, but after seeing what happened to Boogard, I can't help but worry about the health of the players when they fight.
really miss those classic Leaf enforcers - Tiger, Tie Domi, Colton Orr.... and of course the un-replaceable 5.25 David Clarkson
its different today, because its almost like every team is super close and every team has so much talent generally. its almost like most of the teams have super stars. and enforcers would protect players like Crosby. SO because teams are so good now, they dont need jus someone that can beat up and fight but also guys that can score (wayne simmonds, tom wilson). my personal opinion is, enoforcers are good.. sometimes i feel thats what a team needs. (cough cough) my Rangers.. lord knows we need alot more though.
The instigator penalty is why fighting has declined so sharply. I wrote my senior thesis on fighting in hockey last semester. There should be more fights this year, solely based on the previous year being a historical low during the regular season. Profits, attendance, injuries, ratings, and regional breakdowns of these categories and their relationship with fighting is quite an interesting dive. The simple answer is America likes fighting more, and has been proven to increase attendance specifically in the AHL in the States. Consider where Haley ranks among Panthers in jersey sales, I would bet it's above some of his teammates with higher point totals. Why is Wednesday night rivalry night marketed? The main problem the NHL has is that casual/non fans poll much lower in favor of fighting compared to hardcore fans. The NHL under Bettman has been pretty focused on growth. I would argue that their NBC tv contract matters much more than whatever they try and do with fighting. A Seattle expansion, net front deflections, and stretch passes should all help keep fighting in hockey. My argument would be that the NHL should want enforcers. Hardcore fans love them, and they should increase goal scoring due to their lack of skill, making superstars' numbers increase. The alternate route is to curb fighting to appeal to casuals and increase penalties to inflate goal totals, sound familiar? The modern (regular season) game is entirely built to appeal to casuals. I have like 15 more pages on this, it's just kinda sad...
Someone mentioned Ryan Reaves who I'd consider an enforcer. But I think with the Panthers, is the issue that they don't have a Tom Wilson type Power Forward and they can't get one? Is that why maybe they're settling for an enforcer?
Maybe it's because the roster is really young overall and they don't want people messing with the kids? I love me some Jonathan Huberdeau but he's not gonna fight a guy.
I hope enforcers stay around
Steve is the man
I'm not sure if full time enforcer will make a comeback. I think teams will keep a part time enforcer just in case. Remember that game when Ottawa played Carkner just to fight Boyle because he touched Karlsson? I think that's more likely to be the norm. That way you don't have to deal with crappy player taking a spot when you don't need them.
Fighting is definitely part of the game. Instigator rule should be a conditional penalty decided by the refs at the time and place of the fight
"Look, we can talk about hockey's place in the game" - Surely you meant to say 'fighting's place in the game' but I'm going to believe that you were making a purposeful slip to be funny, right? Right? Did I just kill a joke by explaining it or did I catch a real slip up? Glad to see you back Dangle. Get ready for this season ... you'll be doing a lot of screaming "Leafs Win!"
No fighting because it's a "family friendly game"
I mean the Blues have the aforementioned Thorburn.
Reaves is THE guy. Imo of course. Nobody wants to fight him, otherwise he’d be #1. Dude is a monster and he has offensive upside. Toughest player in the game according to Grapes lol
We can TOTALLY talk about hockeys place in the game.
Sounds better. Fights = stoopid. Also pull your seat back a bit.
In terms of skill i actually don't mind Haley on the 4th line. As long as he is hitting and beating up opponents, i'm all for him playing a full season.
Very happy to have Stanley Cup Champion Big Tom Strong Hockey Wilson on our team, although he did get an overpaid contract but oh well. I'd rather have him than have to worry about him.
Fights were up in the playoffs last season. The Leafs got roughed up in the Boston series. Tom Wilson will be running around if the Leafs meet them in the playoffs. It would behoove the Leafs if they had a guy who could put a stop to that.
Luke Witkowski
Only real Steve dangle fans remember dirty bingo
A laundry board? It looks like an ironing board.
As much as it saddens me that enforcers and fighting are down, I don't see it making a come back. The only way you might see one in your lineup, is if for example Haley was taking liberties on key players from other teams. Like tried to throw a cheap shot at guys like Crosby, Matthews, Tavares, McDavid, and that team needed some for of response. Even then those players are good enough that they can play around and away from guys like him. Cause if you aren't fighting or completing body checks, Enforcers are huge non-factors in the game.
Love that Hockey still has a place in the game!!
i like your steve dangle podcast sign even though it looks like something from a kindergarten room. its cute
I think the enforcer roles has transitioned to the instigator role. Why take 1 player from each team off the ice if you have a guy like say Andrew Shaw who is good at getting under people's skin and can draw penalties, while also being a productive scorer/defender
I would also argue that Reaves is an enforcer but he's too good at his role so nobody wants to fight him. Definitely does his job though.
Yessir, Michael Haley truly is the last true enforcer left. The last one of a dying breed
i want to see how florida did in those 7 games he didn’t play, whether it was down the stretch when they were hot or the first half of the season when they were mediocre. small sample size but it’d be cool to see if haley really had an effect on the outcome of their games
Alex Higgins yea that would be cool to see. I think they would be better with him in the lineup though. I watched a Boston vs Florida game last season and Haley noticed that the panthers were playing badly and decided that he was going to fight Adam mcquaid. Florida still ended up losing but after that fight they played much better.
The 7 games he didn't play in:
Apr 8 @BOS, W 4-2
Mar 29 @OTT, OTL 2-3
Mar 28 @TOR, L 3-4
Mar 24 vs ARI, W 4-2
Mar 19 @MTL, W 2-0
Mar 15 vs BOS, W 3-0
Dec 19 @ARI, W 3-2
Which is 5-1-1. The Panthers' overall record was 44-30-8.
goodmorning819 hm so my suspicions were kind of right, game in dec against arizona is a right off since arizona was terrible first half but the other 6 were right down the stretch when they were red hot and just barely missed the playoffs. interesting, thanks!
Look up mcquaid vs hailey to see who is better
Hey Steve, in case you where curious.
This sounds better than before without the little backdrop thing on the mic stand.
Would Tom Wilson be considered a modern day enforcer he still fights but can also do more like kill penalties and score 30 points?
Fighting isnt a thing anymore. Basically all it does is leave your team short handed. Its slowly being phased out of the game. Why have a guy whos only job is to fight when you can fill those minutes with a guy who can add to the team by getting goals/Assists. Martin was a great 2 way player, great for the pk, not now but was. You basically need a guy like a Wilson, Marchand or even Kadri who can do it all and add to fights if need be.but I think the role of a guy whos just an enforcer is done.
Reason why. It’s all about speed now so they say. Now a days anyone that can’t stay outta the box every game gets send down scratch or bench
Incase you haven’t seen it already you really should watch the Netflix documentary “Ice Guardians” plus it is always a good pump up for the upcoming hockey season
Tanner Glass and Dylan Macilrath are BOTH enforcers, full time watching over team-mates.
when Haley fought Witkowski twice in one game i was sitting front row!!
Was shocked not to hear Ryan Reaves especially as a Blues fan
Fighting in hockey is gonna continue to decrease over the next few years then some new kid is gonna come along and start fighting people and become the next enforcer then more teams are gonna join in and it’ll be like the 80s again. It’s a revolving door
Hockey's place in the game is essential to the game of hockey.
In my opinion I feel like without enforcers there’s no toughness to a team, it’ll make a team look weak on the ice.
Wendel Clark the full enforcer package.
Number of fights is not enough to make an enforcer. Ryan Reaves is an enforcer even though he didn't fight nearly as much as Haley. That's because no one wants to fight him - he's probably the toughest guy in the league. Lots of people are willing to fight Haley, apparently. So who is the better 'enforcer'?
loved watching Haley throw knucks for ma Panthers last season. might have been one of the last glimpses of a true enforcer, 'full time' in the NHL.
Love you Steve. Love the new Blue room watched the 2 hours! Of live broad cast. Fighting will always be a part of hockey to let off steam safely. I am pro player safety. But then again... facts. No Matt Martin is still an enforcer. When he plays Ask Don Cherry. Still ready to March. On that book.
Hi Steve. I liked the topic of this video, I have to agree with you. Have a good day