After the Israelites filled Egypt, Pharaoh went on a string of conquests and brought back 100,000 slaves to Egypt. Why so many? This needs to be taken into account when estimating how many Israelites there were.
The Math doesn't work. Yaʿaqōb did not multply and his 12 Sons already had their Children. At least most of them. And some Grandchildren. Qehāth was already born. His Sister Yōkēbēd and her Husband and Nephew ʿAmrām not. Why 70 Men? 70 Humans. Dīnāh? And the mixed Multitude is extra and not necessaryly Part of 3.000.000-4.000.000 People. 430 Years from Gen 12,10 and 400 from 21,14 How can there be 400 Years from Yītzchāq's birth to the Exodos and only 210 Years in Mizrayim and 20 from the Announcement of his birth? 10 from leaving Hārān until Count the Stars. 11 until Yissrāʾēl's Birth. 25 until Yītzchāq's birth 5 more Years, together 30 until Hagār and Yishmāʿēʾl where send away. 215 from Yaʿaqōb's arrival in Mizrayim, until the Exodos.
The Levites went from 22,000 in the first year of the Exodus to 23,000 in the last year. An increase of 1,000 or 0.45% in 39 years. Or compounded of 1.00114% per year. At that rate in 215 years their number would increase 27.7%.
The 400 years affliction of the seed of Abraham started when the Egyptian Ishmael (son of Egyptian mother Hagar) taunted Isaac. And although the Bible did not emphasize it, the Egyptians (after knowing how Sarah and Abraham sent away Hagar and Ishmael) continued this taunting from time to time even while Joseph was vizier of Egypt. This taunting culminated in slavery by the Egyptians when Joseph died.
I will have to go back and refresh my knowledge. My understanding is that during the famine, Iseral moved into Egypt and lived there for 30 years until Josheph past away, then were inslaved the 400 years, which would equal total of 430 years, Iseral had a presence in Egypt. There could have been millions by then, only starting off with a group of 70 people. Also remember that when the Hebrews left Egypt, it was a mix multitude, where some of the people that left were Egyptians as well.
Millions? Where are the millions of homes, the humongous grain fields to support all of them, the burocracy to even manage water supply? Where is the archeology?
@@andriesquast2028,the researchers haven't been looking in the right places. There are two approaches that have been used for studying the story of the Exodus story. 1) The Egyptian approach, which aims at trying to claim a naturalistic opproach to the story, and 2) The Hewbrew approach to the story, which takes a more more literal reading of the Biblical text. For example the waters being removed and then covered the Egyptian army, evidence does exist of broken chariot wheels being preserved by coral reefs in the the Red Sea, (Exodus Revealed movie). The real Mt Sini is not in the Sini peninsula, but on the other side of the peninsula in current day Sadi Arabia, which was known in biblical times as the land of Midean. This is the same place Moses went when he fled from Egypt before coming back to lead the people out of Egypt. If people would trace the actual route indicated in the Bible, they would find the archeological evidence they are looking for. Another place for a serious person wanting to get some answers is to check out this guy's documentary called Journey to mount Sini, and Journey to mount Sini II. The current understanding is that the real mount is Javal al-laws which is off the coast of the RED Sea on the Sadi Arabia side south east part near the main body of the Red sea just below the arm that splits to make the penseluia. The reason that this isn't conclusive is because the government of Saudi Arabia has fenced off certain sections around the mountain in question so no research can be completed. The reading of the Bible indicates a 45-60 day journey to Mt Sini from Egypt. In that time as recorded in the scriptures that the cloth and shoes didn't wear out and that they were fed by Mana, which means what is it. Why would we expect houses or farms in that they were constantly on the move and didn't settle until they reached the mountain? As stated in this post, one of the possible reasons for no achlogical evidence is because searching in wrong areas and not according to the account of the journey as recorded in the Bible. Please check out the resource mentioned in post for future studies. From my own research, I don't believe that the traditional site for Mount Sini is the correct mountain. The main reason is that it is too close to Egypt by travel time and would not require 45 days to travel by foot but about 20, which is half the time indicated by the story found in the Bible. The body of water that was crossed was called Yam Suph, which is the Hebrew word for Red Sea. It is the branch of the RED sea opposite side of the peninsula from Egypt. The crossing of the red sea(not Reed sea), from my understanding was at newava Beach. If reading the Biblical text closely, there is a phrase often used, "out of Egypt," which means that the destination was elsewhere other than the Sini peninsula because the Sini peninsula was under Egyptian control when the Exodus took place. It was only after the sixth day war of Iseral in 1967 when the Sini peninsula was under Iserali control.
michael, you have some biblical points, and some points are a bit off. For example, just as this video states, Joesph lived in Egypt around 70 years after his family moved there. And as this video correctly shows, there are only 4 generations from the 12 moving to Egypt, to leaving Egypt. So the 400 year figure is not possible.
The family size including Joseph was 70 in all that were in Egypt. The 400 years was what GOD spoke to Abraham about in the book of Genesis. It said a new Pharoah that didn't know Joseph which would indicate a large passage of time had past. This is where the 30 years comes in. The 400 years started after death of Joseph because Joseph asked his father to carry his bones back to cannan when the people actually would leave. So my conclusion is this, Joseph Brothers sold him into slavery, Joseph live in Egypt including the 7 years of famine a total of 30 years before he passed on. After that a new Pharoah came on the scene that didn't know anything about Joseph, and felt threatened by a group of foreigners growing rapidly, so the new Pharoah enslaved them to try to curb population. The text indicates that the harder Pharoah punished the new nation, the more they grew in size until approximately 1 to 2 million people in size when they left. When they left, it was a mixed multitude that went with the Exodus group because some of the Egyptians left with the group. There is no guess work in this conclusion as this would be the conclusion from the straight foward reading of the Biblical text. To answer question about the 4 generations coming upto 400 years is possible as people were living longer lifespans back then than are we are in our current generation, and the fact that there is not a concrete definition of how long a generation is. There are references made though out scripture that indicates that 1 generation can be upto 100 years in some instances, so it is quite possible that the 4 generations mention could easily = 400 years as text indicates.
That would be exceptional. More than 10 children to a single woman is uncommon and always was. Look into your own family tree. You should see, before 1945, a lot of "extra" mothers because death in childbirth was depressingly common. Even more so in ancient times as they didn't understand the germ theory of disease. This all by itself limits how many children "per mother" was realistic. Any sort of infection (then called "childbed fever") all too often killed. You can look up the grisly details. It isn't nice. The man who preached anti-septic medicine had an uphill battle to get physicians to listen. In the 19th century. After Pasteur. In this ancient times? No one took any precautions because they had no idea they should. Then, of course, lots and lots of children died in the first year of life or childhood of diseases we now ignore like whooping cough, diphtheria, and even measles. Again, look at your pre-1945 family tree. A lot of kids made it, but a lot didn't. I have an uncle I never met as he died of diphtheria. In 1935.
@@curious968 Of course. That would as exceptional as the Israeli Independence war, as the Six day war, as the Yom kippur war and as the current struggle of Israel with Harari and WЕF, like to say that Israel does give a bit of stretch to reality.
Point of correction... The 135 warriors Abraham gathered from his servants to rescue Lot, these would have increased for 3 generations to the time of Joseph, so their numbers would be say, 135 8 family members supported or being supported by those soldiers x 4 x 4 x 4 children on average for the 3 generations. which would give the servant population to be roughly 70,000. Now multiply that by 210 years worth of generational increase...
The Israelites left Canaan and went to Egypt because of famine in the"Land of Milk and Honey". They would forget where Canaan was and would wander around for forty years until they could return the 120 miles from Egypt to Canaan. 600,000 would become 6,000,000 in in no time.
There has never been a single trace of evidence of the Exodus found anywhere in Egypt, Israel, or any place between. In fact, only 600,000 people live in the Sinai even today. It's an allegory, not history.
@ji8044 As has been stated, yes evidence. There are a number of very fine movies and videos on utube that thoroughly go through the facts. Unfortunately, the footprints from 3000 years ago are gone. Life.
@@RobertStewart-i3m Nobody argues the footprints survived. The fact is, the first generation, all of it, died in the desert; so says the Bible itself. Where are the bodies? We don't have them. We should. The desert will do a good job preserving them or at least plenty and enough of them. Where are the various encampments? We could even date wood burned down to charcoal if such campfires existed. Or, possibly, even latrines. There'd be coins and all sorts of other debris left behind wherever they stopped for the night. If there were any substantial animals in the area, many/most would have been caught, butchered, and their bones discarded for us to find. When people live somewhere, especially in large numbers for many decades, traces of it happen. The Israelis went looking for these kinds of things and came up empty after many years of search. Those "many fine videos" tend to ignore this overarching reality.
3 million people in a small area for a concert for 1 day is easily doable, but for a tribe of nomads seems impossible. Where’s the water going to come from, there’s no ever system etc. Even in todays cities these are problems but imagine back then.
I like how this research includes the fact that people especially the Ancient Hebrews lived alot longer then we do now. Accounting all these factors it's no wonder how the ancient Hebrews multipled into such great numbers in so little time and endured for so long. This reminds me of The God Culture's Biblical Research alot. The book of Jubilees would help alot of things about family lines as well. As for the upcoming Canaanite wars they would have I would imagine they would long drawn conflicts. Especially with those wicked nephilim giants around in substantial numbers to avail them individually. But with Yahuah on their side victory for their entitled land that Canaan stole so long ago in Noah's divisions of the Earth amongst his sons and grandsons would be theirs.
@@andriesquast2028 A question however that should be asked is what bones were they truly testing? Did they know who they were testing? Is there flaws in the conditions of the test itself? Were they being really honest about the results? Or was it something else?
@@samuelrivera4362 Appreciate it. The Book of Jubilees should also be considered as scripture. It is literally written by Moses himself with Yahuah God's help.
4:42 Mr Beitzel deliberately reads from Exodus 1:10 leaving out the conspicuous verse mentioning the great number of Israel: "9 And he said to his people, “Behold, the people of Israel are too many and too mighty for us. ..."" and instead tries to shift the focus to the geographic origin of the family and the potential threat from the North.
If there is any doubt , Isaiah 55 v. 8-9 will remedy that. 8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD. 9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
This is Michel Gamil RABBAT in Florida. The first to adore God in the Bible is Melchisedek who convinces Abram.The rich Abraham division lived in Midiañ. The starving sons of Jacob.sought food and employment in Egypt..a d could leave a y tome to get to HorebToo. They remained. Even When Moshe wanted. to remain among his children to die..they preferred to follow Joshua rere
Abraham had 316 men in his household (Gen 14:14). Why should we assume the sons of Israel coming to Egypt with only their wives and no children and no households? And in addition to that - as others have pointed out - a mixed multitude left 215 years later with the highly increased number of the people of Israel. If only every every one of these 70/72 heads was bringing 50 men with him (a mere sixth of the number of Abraham's men), they counted 3500 men. 4 generations later they amounted to 600'000 men. Different calculations are conceivable, and sensible.
Yahweh said that the generation of adults over 20 would never live to enter Canaan. So that means there should be, conservatively speaking, a cemetery or cemeteries containing the bones of at least 600,000 people in the Sinai. Yet in a desert where 5,000 year old artifacts are sometimes found lying on the surface, there are no cemeteries and no bones anywhere to be found.
Using the 600,000 number, how many were under 20 years old? Would have been quite a few, considering how many grandchildren and greatgrandchildren a single couple could (can today) have. Sini Peninsula = 23,000 sq mi + Arabian Peninsular = 1,250,000 sq mi Many believe the wilderness journey included both areas, especially since Moses once lived in Midian. Many also believe that Mt Sini where Moses met with God is also in the Arabian Peninsular. Burial sites, along the path of these wilderness journey are not likely to be marked. Even attempts of leaving something behind over all those square miles, would have been covered by shifting sands. I recently saw pictures from ground penetrating radar, in the Sahara Dessert of previously unknown ancient cities under the sands. Comparing hidden cities, under the sand, to hidden burial sites brings the issue into better perspective, IMO. Lastly, how do you know that "no bones anywhere to be found"?
@@oldtimerlee8820 The Israelis looked for them after they conquered Sinai. Unmarked graves notwithstanding, there should have been not 600,000 graves, but more like 2 million. Scatter them as much as you like, we should be finding bodies very easily. We should find other evidence of habitation as well. Two million sitting down in tent cities here there and everywhere would leave a lot of mundane artifacts behind.
Millions of people is the Total number of Canaanite Imigrants moving to Egypt for hundreds of years + their ofsprings. they are not Only from Joseph's familly
You cannot propose 9 generations in Egypt if the Bible emphasises only 4. And an average age of 23 yrs for the fathers' first son's birth is unrealistic (remember this age reduces even more because half of all first births are daughters). The demography of the patriarchs gives an average of between 3 and 4 sons each and quite late ages for first fatherhood to a son. Thus an average of 8 children per father for 4 generations, even assuming all generations survived to the exodus (they didn't) give a population
What he's saying is that the prophecy declares the Exodus would happen within the lifetime of the 4th generation. Since Abraham at age 80 is still alive although belonging to the 4th generation then there's no contradiction, even if children up to the 9th generation were already around. The question here is: does a prophetic generation "end" when the next is born or when most/all of that generation are dead?
The Amish population in the States is doubling every 15 years. If the children of Jacob increased at the same rate, in 215 years there would be about 600,000 men. That does not include the servants in their household or the "mixed multitude" that left Egypt with them. A population the size recorded in the Bible is very realistic. You can trust the veracity of Scripture.
According to the chronology of biblical events that God's word, the Bible, reveals Abraham lived from 2111 until 1936 BC, {2036 BC Confirmation in Galater 3,17 (from Abraham's coming to Kanaan at the age of 75, until the Exodus from Egypt, *the 430 years under foreign rule are counted: 2036 - 1606 BC}* {Ismael together with Hagar expulsed [Genesis 21,9-21] 2006 BC - with Ismael's expulsion and Isaac as "Seed" und "Heir" accepted; from this point 400 years, in which the "Seed" of Abraham's is a stranger. Isaac and his descendents live in "strange land" and his seed is "in bondage and entreated evil" [Gen.15,13 und Acts 7,6]. *400 years: 2006 - 1606 BC,* from Isaac as only heir, to the Exodus from Egypt.} Jacob and his family arrives in Egypt 1821 BC (-1606=215 years in Egypt) *{But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again:* for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. Genesis 15, 16; And these are the names of the sons of *Levi* according to their generations; Gershon, and Kohath, and Merari: ... and the years of the life of Levi were an hundred thirty and seven years. ... And the sons of Kohath; *Amram,* and Izhar, and Hebron, and Uzziel: and the years of the life of Kohath were an hundred thirty and three years. ... And Amram took him Jochebed his father's sister to wife; and she bare him *Aaron* and Moses: and the years of the life of Amram were an hundred and thirty and seven years. ... And Aaron took him Elisheba, daughter of Amminadab, sister of Nahshon, to wife; and she bare him Nadab, and Abihu, *Eleazar, and Ithamar.* Exodus 6, 16.18.20.23} the Exodus 1606 BC, [The God of this people of Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people when they dwelt as strangers in the land of Egypt, and with an high arm brought he them out of it {1606 BC}. And about the time of forty years suffered he their manners in the wilderness {1606-1566 BC}. - conquest of Jericho 1566 BC {"From 1952-58, Dame Kathleen Kenyon excavated at Jericho and dated the destruction of City IV to the end of the Middle Bronze Age, ca 1550 BC (Kathleen Kenyon, Digging Up Jericho (London: Ernest Benn, 1957), 262.), meaning that there was no city of Jericho for Joshua to conquer at the time the Bible describes the conquest of Canaan."} - And when he had destroyed seven nations in the land of Canaan {6 years: 1566-1560 BC}, he divided their land to them by lot {14 years: 1560-1546 BC}. And after that he gave unto them judges about the space of four hundred and fifty years, until Samuel the prophet {336 years of peace +114 years of oppression = 450 years: 1546-1096 BC}. And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years {1096-1056 BC}. And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will {40 years: 1056-1016 BC}. Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: Acts 13, 17-23] the 4th year of Salomon 1012 BC {1016-1012 BC; 1 Kings 6, 1: 1606-1012 = (594-114 years of oppression=) 480 years}, divided Empire (Israel / Juda) 976 BC, 390 years later: 586 BC destruction of Jerusalem. (according the whole context of God's word, the Bible, from Chronologie biblischer Ereignisse (Kurt Wolfgang Becker): leben - ist - mehr . at /chronologie/)
The Bible says nothing of the kind. Joseph was never king of anything. He was Jacob's favored son, but not a king there. In Egypt, he was a slave/servant, spent a lot of time in jail, and then rose to prominence for interpreting dreams. He _served_ Pharoah though. He never ruled as a king. In fact, Saul was the first king in Israelite history, a much later event, and the Bible isn't even very happy about it when it happens.
@@curious968 Abraham had 318 servants in genesis not bad for a poor shepherd. The people of Israel should learn their real history and take their place as a great and powerful kingdom of the middle bronze the Hyksos kings of Egypt. Around the 1500sBCE they were kicked out and moved into Canaan sacking Jericho among other cities.
@@paulcarver3517 I don't follow your argument. I don't care how many servants Abraham had. Or Jacob, for that matter. Joseph was the ruler of precisely nothing. So says the Bible. Let's suppose Jacob was a king. I don't think the Bible quite says that, but let's be generous to your thinking. If Jacob was a king, _Joseph was not_. He might be crown prince, at best, but he was no king. Jacob wasn't dead; certainly not when it mattered. In fact, Joseph would not have been crown prince; just a favored son. He wasn't even the eldest. Oh, BTW, have you forgotten he was sold into slavery in Egypt before his daddy died? He was not Pharoah there. He _worked for_ Pharoah. So says, you know, the Bible. He wasn't a "Hyksos" ruler. He may have worked for one, but that's it. The Bible nowhere suggests he was ever in the top job. What it does say is very much to the contrary, start to end. I don't know where you get your evidence. It certainly is not the Bible. If Joseph or any Israelite had ruled Egypt, there would be whole chapters about it. It would have been an extraordinary event and a big deal. He was Pharoah's top adviser, no more, no less.
The "common argument" actually isn't that the Israelites didn't have enough time to reach a population of 3 million. Rather, it's that a population of 3 million living in a desert for 40 years would have left evidence, and there's nothing there.
The remains are possibly at Tel el-Amarna under a stratum that can't currently be dug further for political/bureaucratic reasons, if I'm not mistaken. There are other videos on this channel detailing the latest theories on the subject.
@@earlysdaThe Israelis controlled the Sinai for decades. They announced a project to dig up "the title deeds" in the Holy Land and Sinai. They did not do so. There should be millions of bodies all over Sinai, they should be easy to find in many many places. We just don't have that. Even if we find a few bodies here and there, it is nothing like the body count required to match the Biblical account.
3 million Israelites isn’t the image we’re presented of them in the Bible. Look at Deuteronomy 7. They’re the least numerous out of all the 7 cananite nations they’re going against. If there’s 2 million (on the smaller side), that would mean there’s over 14 million in an area the size of New Jersey. To me, the 600,000 is actually 600 army units of men, which is much more plausible give the text. That’s not even getting into the historical problems of a 600,000 strong Israelite army.
@@chancylvania If the point you are making is that the "numbers" in Numbers don't make any sense, you've got a lot of company. Biblical scholars and apologists work very hard trying to explain how such numbers arose and even more trouble explaining why they left essentially no trace, even though the first generation was claimed to have entirely died out in the desert (Numbers 32:13). So, they somehow creatively read the text so that "thousands" means "chieftains" or "units" or anything but what it says. The idea that the numbers don't mean what they say is a nice excuse, but that's all it is. Once again, straightforward Bible reading and translation of the Masoretic text leads to endless problems. Numbers is not about army units -- it is essentially a census of soldiers. As some apologists who accept the large numbers point out, the census cross-foots. Accordingly, they are numbers and large ones at that. If someone takes Genesis as a literal 6 day history of creation, then I don't see how the same individual can argue that Numbers doesn't mean what _it_ says. And what it says is contradicted by reality.
As late as the 10th and 11th Century BC archaeologists have determined that the number of people living in Israel/Canaan was probably under 100,000 people. So the idea that more than a million people left Egypt is nonsense. There has never been a single trace of evidence of the Exodus found anywhere in Egypt, Israel, or any place between.
The hyroglyph at soleb literally mentions the wandering isrealites as an enemy of Egypt and pharaoh, and is dated to the corresponding time at which the exodus is dated.
The book of Jasher says the Israelites were in Egypt for 210 years which matches up quite nicely with your 215 year scenario. Further, the Israelites that went into Egypt numbered about 70 as I recall, HOWEVER... Abraham was able to round up a number of of warrior-aged servants numbering 135 as I recall. These servants had families and their numbers would have probably been around 1.000. These all would have been considered Israelites by the Egyptians. The number of those servants would have increased at normal population levels and by the time Israel went into Egypt with Joseph, that starting number of approximately a thousand would have grown over the 210 years to a vast number.
Traceybest8047, the book of Jasher is not part of the scriptures. I don't know of the credibility of the book of Jasher. I stick with the reconized scripture. The ending of the book of Genisis says that the time of slavery would be for four hundred years. A group of 70 men plus women could have had plenty of time populate to the recorded population. This dosen't include the mix multitude that left with Iseral. From my own studying and reading the scripture, it said that they were in Egypt for 30 years before being in slaved. They were in slaved when a new Pharoah came on the scene who didn't know Joseph, which means Joseph was dead for a long time.
@michaelcarter7079 One mistake. The Book of Jasher is in what protestants call the apocrypha(sp). All 14 books were part of the Bible from before Christ until protestants, starting with Martin Luther, did not put these books in their translations. They used the 3rd century BC translation from Biblical Hebrew into old Greek that the Rabbis of the time did to convert Greeks. That is why the Book of Jasher factually and spiritually part of the Holy Bible. We protestants have incomplete Bibles. Oops on us
@@RobertStewart-i3m The book of Jasher is not part of the Hebrew Bible. It is not part of the Catholic Bible. It is certainly not part of the Protestant Bible. It may be an ancient and worthy text that some people have brought along. But it is not and never was _scripture_. We have to be careful when we talk about Jasher versus things like the Book of Wisdom, which is accepted by the Roman Catholic church in _their_ Bible.
EXODUS 12:38 mix multitude leaving Egypt would be surely empty Harlems of exotic wives from far off lands. It would be the bottom of Egypt society id assume
How many of you understand, that all stories of scripture are actually allegories for the spiritual kingdom WITHIN YOU? This is the psyche of man! Do you not know that the kingdom is within you, and that your body is the temple?!
I think it is a REALLY good idea you are getting these videos out on TH-cam in short segments.
Your visual representation of crowds of millions was a brilliant addition.
@danielnorman8595 this was all put together by the Patterns of evidence crew.
Do any of these calculations of the number of ''Israelites'' who left Egypt account for the ''mixed multitude'' who followed those Israelites?
After the Israelites filled Egypt, Pharaoh went on a string of conquests and brought back 100,000 slaves to Egypt. Why so many? This needs to be taken into account when estimating how many Israelites there were.
Why do you forget they left with a mixed multitude of people! As well as how can you say how many children were born per male?
Right, I think that makes the problem even less to overcome.
They explain their math. I checked it on a calculator 3 times.
@@RobertStewart-i3m user-io, they did not cover the mixed multitude numbers in this video.
@@earlysda You're right, they don't. There would certainly be hundreds if not thousands of mixed families.
The Math doesn't work. Yaʿaqōb did not multply and his 12 Sons already had their Children. At least most of them. And some Grandchildren. Qehāth was already born. His Sister Yōkēbēd and her Husband and Nephew ʿAmrām not. Why 70 Men? 70 Humans. Dīnāh?
And the mixed Multitude is extra and not necessaryly Part of 3.000.000-4.000.000 People.
430 Years from Gen 12,10 and 400 from 21,14
How can there be 400 Years from Yītzchāq's birth to the Exodos and only 210 Years in Mizrayim and 20 from the Announcement of his birth? 10 from leaving Hārān until Count the Stars. 11 until Yissrāʾēl's Birth. 25 until Yītzchāq's birth 5 more Years, together 30 until Hagār and Yishmāʿēʾl where send away. 215 from Yaʿaqōb's arrival in Mizrayim, until the Exodos.
THANK YOU
Peace & Enlyghtenment Alwayz
Dezert-Owl
The Levites went from 22,000 in the first year of the Exodus to 23,000 in the last year. An increase of 1,000 or 0.45% in 39 years. Or compounded of 1.00114% per year. At that rate in 215 years their number would increase 27.7%.
It seems unrealistic to me that Pharaoh would send a tiny little force of 600 chariots to try to stop millions of people.
The 400 years affliction of the seed of Abraham started when the Egyptian Ishmael (son of Egyptian mother Hagar) taunted Isaac. And although the Bible did not emphasize it, the Egyptians (after knowing how Sarah and Abraham sent away Hagar and Ishmael) continued this taunting from time to time even while Joseph was vizier of Egypt. This taunting culminated in slavery by the Egyptians when Joseph died.
aaamen I love " BUT GOD ", He is sooo wonderful
I will have to go back and refresh my knowledge. My understanding is that during the famine, Iseral moved into Egypt and lived there for 30 years until Josheph past away, then were inslaved the 400 years, which would equal total of 430 years, Iseral had a presence in Egypt. There could have been millions by then, only starting off with a group of 70 people. Also remember that when the Hebrews left Egypt, it was a mix multitude, where some of the people that left were Egyptians as well.
Millions? Where are the millions of homes, the humongous grain fields to support all of them, the burocracy to even manage water supply? Where is the archeology?
That is very literal reading. Like saying well regulated militia has nothing to do with individual rights to bear arms.
@@andriesquast2028,the researchers haven't been looking in the right places. There are two approaches that have been used for studying the story of the Exodus story. 1) The Egyptian approach, which aims at trying to claim a naturalistic opproach to the story, and 2) The Hewbrew approach to the story, which takes a more more literal reading of the Biblical text. For example the waters being removed and then covered the Egyptian army, evidence does exist of broken chariot wheels being preserved by coral reefs in the the Red Sea, (Exodus Revealed movie). The real Mt Sini is not in the Sini peninsula, but on the other side of the peninsula in current day Sadi Arabia, which was known in biblical times as the land of Midean. This is the same place Moses went when he fled from Egypt before coming back to lead the people out of Egypt. If people would trace the actual route indicated in the Bible, they would find the archeological evidence they are looking for. Another place for a serious person wanting to get some answers is to check out this guy's documentary called Journey to mount Sini, and Journey to mount Sini II. The current understanding is that the real mount is Javal al-laws which is off the coast of the RED Sea on the Sadi Arabia side south east part near the main body of the Red sea just below the arm that splits to make the penseluia. The reason that this isn't conclusive is because the government of Saudi Arabia has fenced off certain sections around the mountain in question so no research can be completed. The reading of the Bible indicates a 45-60 day journey to Mt Sini from Egypt. In that time as recorded in the scriptures that the cloth and shoes didn't wear out and that they were fed by Mana, which means what is it. Why would we expect houses or farms in that they were constantly on the move and didn't settle until they reached the mountain? As stated in this post, one of the possible reasons for no achlogical evidence is because searching in wrong areas and not according to the account of the journey as recorded in the Bible. Please check out the resource mentioned in post for future studies. From my own research, I don't believe that the traditional site for Mount Sini is the correct mountain. The main reason is that it is too close to Egypt by travel time and would not require 45 days to travel by foot but about 20, which is half the time indicated by the story found in the Bible. The body of water that was crossed was called Yam Suph, which is the Hebrew word for Red Sea. It is the branch of the RED sea opposite side of the peninsula from Egypt. The crossing of the red sea(not Reed sea), from my understanding was at newava Beach. If reading the Biblical text closely, there is a phrase often used, "out of Egypt," which means that the destination was elsewhere other than the Sini peninsula because the Sini peninsula was under Egyptian control when the Exodus took place. It was only after the sixth day war of Iseral in 1967 when the Sini peninsula was under Iserali control.
michael, you have some biblical points, and some points are a bit off. For example, just as this video states, Joesph lived in Egypt around 70 years after his family moved there. And as this video correctly shows, there are only 4 generations from the 12 moving to Egypt, to leaving Egypt. So the 400 year figure is not possible.
The family size including Joseph was 70 in all that were in Egypt. The 400 years was what GOD spoke to Abraham about in the book of Genesis. It said a new Pharoah that didn't know Joseph which would indicate a large passage of time had past. This is where the 30 years comes in. The 400 years started after death of Joseph because Joseph asked his father to carry his bones back to cannan when the people actually would leave. So my conclusion is this, Joseph Brothers sold him into slavery, Joseph live in Egypt including the 7 years of famine a total of 30 years before he passed on. After that a new Pharoah came on the scene that didn't know anything about Joseph, and felt threatened by a group of foreigners growing rapidly, so the new Pharoah enslaved them to try to curb population. The text indicates that the harder Pharoah punished the new nation, the more they grew in size until approximately 1 to 2 million people in size when they left. When they left, it was a mixed multitude that went with the Exodus group because some of the Egyptians left with the group. There is no guess work in this conclusion as this would be the conclusion from the straight foward reading of the Biblical text.
To answer question about the 4 generations coming upto 400 years is possible as people were living longer lifespans back then than are we are in our current generation, and the fact that there is not a concrete definition of how long a generation is. There are references made though out scripture that indicates that 1 generation can be upto 100 years in some instances, so it is quite possible that the 4 generations mention could easily = 400 years as text indicates.
They could have around 18 or 17 children on avarage.
I know an Egyptian who emigrated here because his father's farm could no longer support 25 children.
Ouch. That's alot.
SHL, the Bible supports the average of 5 to 8 children.
That would be exceptional. More than 10 children to a single woman is uncommon and always was.
Look into your own family tree. You should see, before 1945, a lot of "extra" mothers because death in childbirth was depressingly common. Even more so in ancient times as they didn't understand the germ theory of disease. This all by itself limits how many children "per mother" was realistic. Any sort of infection (then called "childbed fever") all too often killed. You can look up the grisly details. It isn't nice.
The man who preached anti-septic medicine had an uphill battle to get physicians to listen. In the 19th century. After Pasteur. In this ancient times? No one took any precautions because they had no idea they should.
Then, of course, lots and lots of children died in the first year of life or childhood of diseases we now ignore like whooping cough, diphtheria, and even measles. Again, look at your pre-1945 family tree. A lot of kids made it, but a lot didn't. I have an uncle I never met as he died of diphtheria. In 1935.
@@curious968
Of course. That would as exceptional as the Israeli Independence war, as the Six day war, as the Yom kippur war and as the current struggle of Israel with Harari and WЕF, like to say that Israel does give a bit of stretch to reality.
Point of correction... The 135 warriors Abraham gathered from his servants to rescue Lot, these would have increased for 3 generations to the time of Joseph, so their numbers would be say, 135 8 family members supported or being supported by those soldiers x 4 x 4 x 4 children on average for the 3 generations. which would give the servant population to be roughly 70,000. Now multiply that by 210 years worth of generational increase...
Good Observation!
The Israelites left Canaan and went to Egypt because of famine in the"Land of Milk and Honey". They would forget where Canaan was and would wander around for forty years until they could return the 120 miles from Egypt to Canaan. 600,000 would become 6,000,000 in in no time.
There has never been a single trace of evidence of the Exodus found anywhere in Egypt, Israel, or any place between. In fact, only 600,000 people live in the Sinai even today. It's an allegory, not history.
@ji8044 As has been stated, yes evidence. There are a number of very fine movies and videos on utube that thoroughly go through the facts. Unfortunately, the footprints from 3000 years ago are gone. Life.
@@RobertStewart-i3m Nobody argues the footprints survived.
The fact is, the first generation, all of it, died in the desert; so says the Bible itself. Where are the bodies?
We don't have them. We should. The desert will do a good job preserving them or at least plenty and enough of them.
Where are the various encampments? We could even date wood burned down to charcoal if such campfires existed. Or, possibly, even latrines. There'd be coins and all sorts of other debris left behind wherever they stopped for the night. If there were any substantial animals in the area, many/most would have been caught, butchered, and their bones discarded for us to find.
When people live somewhere, especially in large numbers for many decades, traces of it happen.
The Israelis went looking for these kinds of things and came up empty after many years of search.
Those "many fine videos" tend to ignore this overarching reality.
It also says "a mixed multitude" went out. That's a whole lot more people that weren't hebrew.
3 million people in a small area for a concert for 1 day is easily doable, but for a tribe of nomads seems impossible. Where’s the water going to come from, there’s no ever system etc. Even in todays cities these are problems but imagine back then.
The 600 thousands armed men dont have to be all from Jacobs family
I like how this research includes the fact that people especially the Ancient Hebrews lived alot longer then we do now. Accounting all these factors it's no wonder how the ancient Hebrews multipled into such great numbers in so little time and endured for so long. This reminds me of The God Culture's Biblical Research alot. The book of Jubilees would help alot of things about family lines as well.
As for the upcoming Canaanite wars they would have I would imagine they would long drawn conflicts. Especially with those wicked nephilim giants around in substantial numbers to avail them individually. But with Yahuah on their side victory for their entitled land that Canaan stole so long ago in Noah's divisions of the Earth amongst his sons and grandsons would be theirs.
As you, I also do believe the Biblical record. Amen to that
Archeology of the bones prove that people lived short lives, not ridiculously long.
Most slaves probably did not live that long. But there were people, who did have long lives.
@@andriesquast2028
A question however that should be asked is what bones were they truly testing? Did they know who they were testing? Is there flaws in the conditions of the test itself? Were they being really honest about the results? Or was it something else?
@@samuelrivera4362
Appreciate it. The Book of Jubilees should also be considered as scripture. It is literally written by Moses himself with Yahuah God's help.
4:42 Mr Beitzel deliberately reads from Exodus 1:10 leaving out the conspicuous verse mentioning the great number of Israel: "9 And he said to his people, “Behold, the people of Israel are too many and too mighty for us. ..."" and instead tries to shift the focus to the geographic origin of the family and the potential threat from the North.
If there is any doubt , Isaiah 55 v. 8-9 will remedy that.
8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
This is Michel Gamil RABBAT in Florida. The first to adore God in the Bible is Melchisedek who convinces Abram.The rich
Abraham division lived in Midiañ. The starving sons of Jacob.sought food and employment in Egypt..a d could leave a y tome to get to HorebToo. They remained. Even When Moshe wanted. to remain among his children to die..they preferred
to follow Joshua
rere
Abraham had 316 men in his household (Gen 14:14).
Why should we assume the sons of Israel coming to Egypt with only their wives and no children and no households?
And in addition to that - as others have pointed out - a mixed multitude left 215 years later with the highly increased number of the people of Israel.
If only every every one of these 70/72 heads was bringing 50 men with him (a mere sixth of the number of Abraham's men), they counted 3500 men. 4 generations later they amounted to 600'000 men.
Different calculations are conceivable, and sensible.
Yahweh said that the generation of adults over 20 would never live to enter Canaan. So that means there should be, conservatively speaking, a cemetery or cemeteries containing the bones of at least 600,000 people in the Sinai. Yet in a desert where 5,000 year old artifacts are sometimes found lying on the surface, there are no cemeteries and no bones anywhere to be found.
It wasn't one massive cemetery. They were wondering. Bodies buried everywhere
Using the 600,000 number, how many were under 20 years old? Would have been quite a few, considering how many grandchildren and greatgrandchildren a single couple could (can today) have.
Sini Peninsula = 23,000 sq mi + Arabian Peninsular = 1,250,000 sq mi
Many believe the wilderness journey included both areas, especially since Moses once lived in Midian. Many also believe that Mt Sini where Moses met with God is also in the Arabian Peninsular.
Burial sites, along the path of these wilderness journey are not likely to be marked. Even attempts of leaving something behind over all those square miles, would have been covered by shifting sands. I recently saw pictures from ground penetrating radar, in the Sahara Dessert of previously unknown ancient cities under the sands. Comparing hidden cities, under the sand, to hidden burial sites brings the issue into better perspective, IMO.
Lastly, how do you know that "no bones anywhere to be found"?
@@oldtimerlee8820 The Israelis looked for them after they conquered Sinai.
Unmarked graves notwithstanding, there should have been not 600,000 graves, but more like 2 million. Scatter them as much as you like, we should be finding bodies very easily. We should find other evidence of habitation as well. Two million sitting down in tent cities here there and everywhere would leave a lot of mundane artifacts behind.
@@RobertStewart-i3mthey spent very little of the time “wandering.”
Millions of people is the Total number of Canaanite Imigrants moving to Egypt for hundreds of years + their ofsprings.
they are not Only from Joseph's familly
T 400 years means 10 generations
You cannot propose 9 generations in Egypt if the Bible emphasises only 4. And an average age of 23 yrs for the fathers' first son's birth is unrealistic (remember this age reduces even more because half of all first births are daughters). The demography of the patriarchs gives an average of between 3 and 4 sons each and quite late ages for first fatherhood to a son. Thus an average of 8 children per father for 4 generations, even assuming all generations survived to the exodus (they didn't) give a population
What he's saying is that the prophecy declares the Exodus would happen within the lifetime of the 4th generation. Since Abraham at age 80 is still alive although belonging to the 4th generation then there's no contradiction, even if children up to the 9th generation were already around.
The question here is: does a prophetic generation "end" when the next is born or when most/all of that generation are dead?
The Amish population in the States is doubling every 15 years. If the children of Jacob increased at the same rate, in 215 years there would be about 600,000 men. That does not include the servants in their household or the "mixed multitude" that left Egypt with them. A population the size recorded in the Bible is very realistic. You can trust the veracity of Scripture.
According to the chronology of biblical events that God's word, the Bible, reveals
Abraham lived from 2111 until 1936 BC,
{2036 BC Confirmation in Galater 3,17
(from Abraham's coming to Kanaan at the age of 75, until the Exodus from Egypt, *the 430 years under foreign rule are counted: 2036 - 1606 BC}*
{Ismael together with Hagar expulsed [Genesis 21,9-21] 2006 BC
- with Ismael's expulsion and Isaac as "Seed" und "Heir" accepted; from this point 400 years, in which the "Seed" of Abraham's is a stranger. Isaac and his descendents live in "strange land" and his seed is "in bondage and entreated evil" [Gen.15,13 und Acts 7,6].
*400 years: 2006 - 1606 BC,*
from Isaac as only heir,
to the Exodus from Egypt.}
Jacob and his family arrives in Egypt 1821 BC (-1606=215 years in Egypt)
*{But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again:* for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. Genesis 15, 16; And these are the names of the sons of *Levi* according to their generations; Gershon, and Kohath, and Merari: ... and the years of the life of Levi were an hundred thirty and seven years. ... And the sons of Kohath; *Amram,* and Izhar, and Hebron, and Uzziel: and the years of the life of Kohath were an hundred thirty and three years. ... And Amram took him Jochebed his father's sister to wife; and she bare him *Aaron* and Moses: and the years of the life of Amram were an hundred and thirty and seven years. ... And Aaron took him Elisheba, daughter of Amminadab, sister of Nahshon, to wife; and she bare him Nadab, and Abihu, *Eleazar, and Ithamar.* Exodus 6, 16.18.20.23}
the Exodus 1606 BC,
[The God of this people of Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people when they dwelt as strangers in the land of Egypt, and
with an high arm brought he them out of it
{1606 BC}.
And about the time of forty years
suffered he their manners in the wilderness
{1606-1566 BC}.
- conquest of Jericho 1566 BC {"From 1952-58, Dame Kathleen Kenyon excavated at Jericho and dated the destruction of City IV to the end of the Middle Bronze Age, ca 1550 BC (Kathleen Kenyon, Digging Up Jericho (London: Ernest Benn, 1957), 262.), meaning that there was no city of Jericho for Joshua to conquer at the time the Bible describes the conquest of Canaan."} -
And when he had destroyed seven nations in the land of Canaan
{6 years: 1566-1560 BC},
he divided their land to them by lot
{14 years: 1560-1546 BC}.
And after that he gave unto them judges about the space of four hundred and fifty years, until Samuel the prophet
{336 years of peace +114 years of oppression = 450 years: 1546-1096 BC}.
And afterward they desired a king:
and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin,
by the space of forty years {1096-1056 BC}.
And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will
{40 years: 1056-1016 BC}.
Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: Acts 13, 17-23]
the 4th year of Salomon 1012 BC
{1016-1012 BC; 1 Kings 6, 1: 1606-1012
= (594-114 years of oppression=) 480 years},
divided Empire (Israel / Juda) 976 BC,
390 years later: 586 BC destruction of Jerusalem.
(according the whole context of God's word, the Bible, from Chronologie biblischer Ereignisse (Kurt Wolfgang Becker): leben - ist - mehr . at /chronologie/)
Jacob was one of the hyksos kings of egypt one of the shepherd kings
The Bible says nothing of the kind. Joseph was never king of anything. He was Jacob's favored son, but not a king there.
In Egypt, he was a slave/servant, spent a lot of time in jail, and then rose to prominence for interpreting dreams. He _served_ Pharoah though. He never ruled as a king.
In fact, Saul was the first king in Israelite history, a much later event, and the Bible isn't even very happy about it when it happens.
@@curious968 Abraham had 318 servants in genesis not bad for a poor shepherd. The people of Israel should learn their real history and take their place as a great and powerful kingdom of the middle bronze the Hyksos kings of Egypt. Around the 1500sBCE they were kicked out and moved into Canaan sacking Jericho among other cities.
@@paulcarver3517 I don't follow your argument. I don't care how many servants Abraham had. Or Jacob, for that matter.
Joseph was the ruler of precisely nothing. So says the Bible.
Let's suppose Jacob was a king. I don't think the Bible quite says that, but let's be generous to your thinking.
If Jacob was a king, _Joseph was not_. He might be crown prince, at best, but he was no king. Jacob wasn't dead; certainly not when it mattered. In fact, Joseph would not have been crown prince; just a favored son. He wasn't even the eldest.
Oh, BTW, have you forgotten he was sold into slavery in Egypt before his daddy died? He was not Pharoah there. He _worked for_ Pharoah. So says, you know, the Bible.
He wasn't a "Hyksos" ruler. He may have worked for one, but that's it. The Bible nowhere suggests he was ever in the top job. What it does say is very much to the contrary, start to end.
I don't know where you get your evidence. It certainly is not the Bible. If Joseph or any Israelite had ruled Egypt, there would be whole chapters about it. It would have been an extraordinary event and a big deal.
He was Pharoah's top adviser, no more, no less.
The "common argument" actually isn't that the Israelites didn't have enough time to reach a population of 3 million. Rather, it's that a population of 3 million living in a desert for 40 years would have left evidence, and there's nothing there.
The remains are possibly at Tel el-Amarna under a stratum that can't currently be dug further for political/bureaucratic reasons, if I'm not mistaken. There are other videos on this channel detailing the latest theories on the subject.
karles, You haven't searched very hard. Start looking at Ron Wyatt's videos where he found lots of evidence.
@@earlysdaThe Israelis controlled the Sinai for decades. They announced a project to dig up "the title deeds" in the Holy Land and Sinai.
They did not do so. There should be millions of bodies all over Sinai, they should be easy to find in many many places. We just don't have that.
Even if we find a few bodies here and there, it is nothing like the body count required to match the Biblical account.
3 million Israelites isn’t the image we’re presented of them in the Bible. Look at Deuteronomy 7. They’re the least numerous out of all the 7 cananite nations they’re going against. If there’s 2 million (on the smaller side), that would mean there’s over 14 million in an area the size of New Jersey. To me, the 600,000 is actually 600 army units of men, which is much more plausible give the text.
That’s not even getting into the historical problems of a 600,000 strong Israelite army.
@@chancylvania If the point you are making is that the "numbers" in Numbers don't make any sense, you've got a lot of company. Biblical scholars and apologists work very hard trying to explain how such numbers arose and even more trouble explaining why they left essentially no trace, even though the first generation was claimed to have entirely died out in the desert (Numbers 32:13).
So, they somehow creatively read the text so that "thousands" means "chieftains" or "units" or anything but what it says.
The idea that the numbers don't mean what they say is a nice excuse, but that's all it is. Once again, straightforward Bible reading and translation of the Masoretic text leads to endless problems. Numbers is not about army units -- it is essentially a census of soldiers. As some apologists who accept the large numbers point out, the census cross-foots. Accordingly, they are numbers and large ones at that.
If someone takes Genesis as a literal 6 day history of creation, then I don't see how the same individual can argue that Numbers doesn't mean what _it_ says. And what it says is contradicted by reality.
The millions number is based on a mistranslation. The actual number was close to thousands.
I have a Hebrew Bible (you know what I mean), and it is still 6 digits
As late as the 10th and 11th Century BC archaeologists have determined that the number of people living in Israel/Canaan was probably under 100,000 people. So the idea that more than a million people left Egypt is nonsense. There has never been a single trace of evidence of the Exodus found anywhere in Egypt, Israel, or any place between.
They've found several Canaanite cities numbering 20,000.
The hyroglyph at soleb literally mentions the wandering isrealites as an enemy of Egypt and pharaoh, and is dated to the corresponding time at which the exodus is dated.
The book of Jasher says the Israelites were in Egypt for 210 years which matches up quite nicely with your 215 year scenario. Further, the Israelites that went into Egypt numbered about 70 as I recall, HOWEVER... Abraham was able to round up a number of of warrior-aged servants numbering 135 as I recall. These servants had families and their numbers would have probably been around 1.000. These all would have been considered Israelites by the Egyptians. The number of those servants would have increased at normal population levels and by the time Israel went into Egypt with Joseph, that starting number of approximately a thousand would have grown over the 210 years to a vast number.
Traceybest8047, the book of Jasher is not part of the scriptures. I don't know of the credibility of the book of Jasher. I stick with the reconized scripture. The ending of the book of Genisis says that the time of slavery would be for four hundred years. A group of 70 men plus women could have had plenty of time populate to the recorded population. This dosen't include the mix multitude that left with Iseral. From my own studying and reading the scripture, it said that they were in Egypt for 30 years before being in slaved. They were in slaved when a new Pharoah came on the scene who didn't know Joseph, which means Joseph was dead for a long time.
@michaelcarter7079 One mistake. The Book of Jasher is in what protestants call the apocrypha(sp). All 14 books were part of the Bible from before Christ until protestants, starting with Martin Luther, did not put these books in their translations. They used the 3rd century BC translation from Biblical Hebrew into old Greek that the Rabbis of the time did to convert Greeks. That is why the Book of Jasher factually and spiritually part of the Holy Bible. We protestants have incomplete Bibles. Oops on us
@@RobertStewart-i3m The Book of Jasher we have is a forgery. No one knows were the real one is.
@@RobertStewart-i3m The book of Jasher is not part of the Hebrew Bible. It is not part of the Catholic Bible. It is certainly not part of the Protestant Bible. It may be an ancient and worthy text that some people have brought along. But it is not and never was _scripture_.
We have to be careful when we talk about Jasher versus things like the Book of Wisdom, which is accepted by the Roman Catholic church in _their_ Bible.
EXODUS 12:38 mix multitude leaving Egypt would be surely empty Harlems of exotic wives from far off lands.
It would be the bottom of Egypt society id assume
The book of Jasher also says they were enslaved for only 5 years. yes it was brutal, but it wasn't hundreds of years.
The book of Jasher is not inspired of God. While it may have some true information, not all of it is true.
What shall this be? I have read of it for the 1st time.
How many of you understand, that all stories of scripture are actually allegories for the spiritual kingdom WITHIN YOU?
This is the psyche of man! Do you not know that the kingdom is within you, and that your body is the temple?!