Post Session Reflection 2 - Linear vs Sandbox
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
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New series of GM tips for various games. After running a session, what did I notice about how to improve my GMing or to be more efficient?
Today's episode: Linear vs Sandbox style play, and my ruminations on each.
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What I did to make my sandbox games successful is I adopted a living world methodology. What I mean by that is I introduce a bunch of NPCs with agendas so the players aren't the only movers and shakers in the world. They can meet those characters or see the effects of them pursuing their goals and can choose to involve themselves, or pass and do something else, tho, some things may have unwanted consequences. I also stole and repurposed the doom clock idea from games like Dungeon World, and each of my major NPCs have a progress track of what kind of things will happen if players don't involve themselves so I don't spend too much energy on background stuff but still have something interesting to show when players come back to the location affected by the NPC, or sometimes those effects travel back to PCs affecting them directly or indirectly. I make sure to update those "doom clocks" if players do something that would affect them, directly or indirectly. This way players can do whatever they want, and even my linear oriented player enjoys it since to him it feels like there are quests to follow, kind of tricking him into making his own decisions within the sandbox as with that approach he has situations he can orient himself to and act accordingly. I also ask my players to let me know beforehand if they want to travel to another place they haven't been to yet so I can prepare stuff for them to explore and NPCs to mingle with, keeping that above the table lets players adjust their expectations of what is available for them to play with, and lets me not spend the next decade on preparing everything they could interact with but still allows freedom to explore as the sandbox grows. I tend to start my sandbox games with an introductory more or less linear quest to ease players into the world and give them things to attach themselves to. I find that works much better than just throwing them into a tavern and asking them what they want to do, since during that quest, they get an opportunity to figure out, what they want to do next when the game opens up to them.
I love the West Marches campaign format
In my opinion, DMs are not storytellers (and a roleplaying game is not best played as a storytelling game. If you want to play a storytelling game, there are games designed as storytelling games that do that much better). A GM places challenges in front of the players, the players try to solve the challenges, and after you are done playing, then you can tell the story (or stories) about what happened at the table. As a byproduct of play, a story may emerge.
It occurred to me recently that, at some time in the past (maybe around 3rd edition of D&D?), professional writers took over the design and adventure making of D&D; as opposed to the original D&D material which was written by a shoe repairman and a security guard, and other wargaming hobbyists. Sometime around then the game became about telling stories (which is just what you would expect a writer to be interested in) rather than the exploration of maps by PCs and combat with fierce creatures to obtain treasure [in a hexcrawl or a dungeon delve]. Video game influences (which are much linier or like chose your own adventures) also began to influence TTRPG design [for the worse in my opinion]. Modules began to be written as movement from plot point to plot point, rather than allowing characters to roam around in the sandbox pursuing their own ideas and motivations. It seems like this was around the time that the term "railroading" arose and was used as a derogatory term by those of us who had grown up playing the open world/sandbox type of campaign to describe these ‘plot driven’ 'straightjackets' type of adventures. The linked videos are a great example of this point of view (which I agree with): th-cam.com/video/4c9BoqE-jeY/w-d-xo.html and th-cam.com/video/PIQpVNbLwuE/w-d-xo.html
The story is what happens at [or away from] the table AFTER they game is finished for the evening, when tales are told of what happened during the game. When I hear GMs, game designers and others talking about the three-act structure, overlaid by the Shakespearian five act structure, and then talking about the realization moment in screenplays [coming at approximately page 80], and the climax of the story, and [heaven help us] the denouement, etc., etc., I know that I am listening to someone who likely learned to play after the rise of the 'storytelling/video game' type of adventure.
Back in 1974, when age 10 to 25 year old 'kids' were putting together their D&D worlds and building sandboxes for others to play in, we/they had little formal education about story structure and the like [and wouldn't have thought about using it in the design of a 'dungeon' or wilderness adventure anyway], but we/they knew enough to create challenges for players to overcome, which creates the environment for conflict (which is critical to drama), and with players having created motivated characters who were seeking fame and fortune, and were placed in such a sandbox environment, they organically created story through play. Look at things like the Judges Guild materials from the late 70s. They are filled with locations, creatures, NPCs, random tables and such and not plot points, a main narrative, etc. A DM is not a storyteller and RPGs are best used as role playing games, and not storytelling games.
The lost and purposelessness sandbox characters feel is way more common than choice paralysis. Some games solve this by preloading direction and lore in character creation. Most games require DMs to fertilize a sandbox game with some kind of starter adventure that lets players see the setting and begin to develop opinions and generate organic goals.
I have a feeling well designed and/or well guided character creation could help solve this problem.
I tend not to use lore but relationships for this. I'm sure that's my WoD background shining through again, but those characters all have Backgrounds with Allies, contacts, mentors, an retainers. Each one of those hints at NPCs with goals and needs. A purposeless sandbox character can be turned into a champion when he finds out his retainer is being threatened by some criminal organisation. Contacts might let the player know they are dealing with an issue that might risk them unable to provide them their usual service, which rallies the player to help solve the offending issue. Mentors might push the purposeless player out the door, take advantage of them, or demand certain services for their mentorship, etc, etc.
You need the characters to have a tangible investment in the world, that acts as their motivation and as a vulnerability. Then you create multiple active threats to that investment. Done.
Sandbox, yes! My experience is the Best stories are the ones that develop at the table through play. GM deserves to find out what will happen as much as the players do. I have also found that "obligation" is a great thing to start PCs with. Obligations engage the players through their characters with the setting and NPCs. Those PC obligations will give characters initial "purpose" and fuel for developing their individual desires.
Obligations can be family, feudal, tribal, debt, membership, or any of a host of connections that put characters in a relationship with expectations on their behavior.
And, yes, breaking trust with that relationship can be how the story begins, if the player chooses to go that way!
Cheers!
Hello and welcome to Jazz Club, tonight, Gaming Jazz! Mmmmm. Nice!
In a departure from Actual Play, seminal Jazz RPGer Trevor Devall, lead saxophonist of the eclectic Sage's Library brings to us a unique take of the clashing styles of Linear and Sandbox gaming. Grrrrrrrrrrrrreat! REALLY great! He'll be presenting his own interpretation of these themes in an inventive new arrangement - where although it follows the standard 3d6 6-attribute structure, instead of providing a harmonic departure from the chargen section, the rules resolve in a rising chromatic pattern. Wonderful!
Trevor Devall and LvS...
😁
I only found your channel this month, I’ve watched all of season one and am currently watching season two. I just wanted to say that I absolutely love your channel! I’m completely obsessed with it! I’m really looking forward to see what future seasons will have to offer! Keep being awesome!
I’m so jealous of you having all that goodness in front of you for the first time. Enjoy.
@@shaneintheuk2026 I quite often binge watch so I will be up to date in no time lol
Honestly solo play has been my first real experience with sandbox style games but that's been one of the coolest things about it! Knowing my character could start a whole new arc to an adventure by deciding to, say, knock on a random door in town keeps things interesting and (with a strong enough character goal) makes it so you're never stuck for long when it comes to moving the story forward. Whether you come up with a mundane or outlandish idea for what to do next, you can do it. It's kind of fascinating to look back over your story and see how differently things would've gone, which you can't really do in the same way with a linear adventure.
This is how my wizard ended up apprenticed to a green hag after an encounter with bears chasing scouts near the outskirts of a town.
This apprenticeship and attempting to integrate into the hierarchy of the Hag society has taken over the game... I was supposed to be going to a town 1 hex over.
Solo RPGs have broken me as a player of group games, they're so addictively creative. They have increased my fun as a GM to no end though...
@@condomsurlatete I think my favourite 'addictively creative' moment as you put it was the time I asked my oracle "Do they encounter a monster in the cave?" and got the response of 'Extreme yes' "What on earth doe-- Oh. Gargantuan monsters, that was established as a thing here in the third scene of the game. The cave is a monster." And then I proceeded to stat the cave up and then roleplay my characters and their NPC companion at the time navigating a cave that was trying to lure them into going down paths that would make it easy to trap them for easy digestion. (The other couple of things I'm finding fun is that I'm able to use the game mechanics to work out e.g. 'are they deceived by the gargantuan monster I know is trying to eat them', and I feel absolutely zero compulsion to not engage in PvP activity for the health of the game because... I know it's the character and nothing personal. I'm playing the character who's doing it and the character who's on the receiving end of it, while both of them are PCs.)
Weirdly, though, I'm finding the game I'm currently on surprisingly linear considering I have zero clue where this thing's taking me - Only the current questlines they're on and the characters' overarching goal. But the goal is one of those 'this slots into basically any adventure that comes their way' things - finding a way home having been transported to another dimension, and there are things they've got a lead, but that lead requires them to finish something else that's similarly... Over arching but means they wander into and out of adventures along the way. They'd have the perfect motivation if a GM was trying to pop premade adventure modules into their path, really, since they just need hint that there's a potential lead for either their path home or the thing they currently think might - just might - be able to get them home to investigate which is probably why it feels as linear as it does to me. Whatever adventures GME suggests to me via the random tables they're going to go on as long as they think it might help them get home.
(But, hey, maybe now that they've gotten separated - probably. That's the expected scene, anyway - when I next join... One of them, and start alternating between the two... I'll find things a bit more... Individualized... To each of them. Though obviously they're also going to be getting a new thread of 'reunite')
So we going to see a solo Twilight 2000 on future season? 😉
These are all reasons I love RuneQuest (RQG specifically), the new World of Darkness, and The One Ring, because, like Harn (it seems) they are VERY good for that limited sandbox setup.
Some limited sandboxes are more limited than others. Good examples of limited sandboxes also exist in video games as well: Red Dead Redemption 2 (tight), Zelda BotW (loose), etc vs full sandbox of Minecraft, Terraria, etc. In a limited sandbox you always have a thing you're supposed to be doing, but other than potential time constraints don't necessarily have to do it.
I prefer a loosely limited sandbox. I generally don't think of things in terms of plots anymore, only characters (including NPCs) and motivations. That way plot is rather spontaneous and oft unexpected.
I think it's weird that the crowd who push for better player agency oft intertwine with those aiming at linear storytelling GM design (or to be nicer a very tight limited sandbox design, which appears to be the current normal). These two styles are at odds, logically.
The absolute best GM section including tools for sandbox play exists in Worlds Without Number. It even has good guidelines for pushing your thinking toward sandbox play if you're a traditionally linear GM.
A perfect example of a limited environment would be The Dark of Hot Spring Island. It is a hexcrawl adventure of a small island, but there is an overarching story and lots of factions. It’s really incredible.
This episode has come at a very opportune time for me. I've been learning the Star Trek Adventures (STA) rpg and have been grappling with this issue. Since STA is essentially a Star Trek episode simulator (it works in Acts & Scenes) it inherently becomes pretty linear, so the hurdle I've been working with is trying to put as much freedom for the PCs as I can into the adventures I create which has led to me dealing with how much prep or maybe 'what kind of prep' should I put into this. Should I try and have every Act and Scene sketched out or should I focus more on the setting/environment and let the players dictate the scenes more by their choices and will this be GM-able by me or slow everything down too much as I try and react 'on the fly'. Last thing I want is the players sitting there waiting for me to get something together. Keep up the great work, always enjoy hearing from your experience and insights.
This is one of the most succinct and clear explanations of these differences. You've given me some good pointers on how to approach introducing my players to a sandbox style. We appreciate thine aged wisdom, O Trevor 💀
Here's a thought: How do you deal with solo play if you're generally a "bring the adventure to me" style player? This is definitely something I struggle with.
Perhaps try a solo adventure generator which creates more of the story setup from the start, and on through? Such as "The Adventure Crafter" from Word Mill, the ones who also made Mythic GM Emulator? There's also the Covetous Poet's Adventure Creator. They have more focused themes for specific genres. Still requires brainstorming to flesh out but provides a more solidified start in a multiple Act-like structure if you continue using it.
I love the Forbidden Lands what is a limited sandbox
Great Topic, and thank you for sharing with us these important topics. I would add, as you said types of players are part of this formula. Seth Skorkowsky (Stop Blanket-Blaming The Game Master - RPG Philosophy) did a video on this and the Alexandrian (The Railroading Manifesto - Addendum: I Want To Be Railroaded ) also wrote an article on this.
Great talk! In my last D&D 5e campaign characters were all siblings of a baron who was killed prior to the start of the adventure. Finding who killed him was the arc story but there were many side adventures as they gained levels. I had no idea who killed the baron at the beginning. The players gave me many ideas as they went along. I discovered who killed the baron at the same time as them when they were level 7.
Very interested in hearing your thoughts. I think getting the balance right is just as important when soloing too. I have used systems that “tell” you what the next scene is going to be and what is “going” to happen to characters which I felt railroaded me, (Adventure Crafter). Equally I’ve had systems where I never really engage and it’s just a few random words and a string of random NPCs that never mattered. Getting the balance right is one of the true challenges of solo play in my opinion.
Have you found, a good middle ground?
@@TheJML1975 yes I think so. I use Ironsworn/Starforged and am careful to use misses as complications rather than damage. I use the built in oracles, some random tables for the senses and feelings/moods that I invented and some more from the Covetous Poet Adventure Creator. I tend to roll for inspiration and ignore or reroll ideas that don’t fit. It seems to work for me.
I love the tonal whiplash, where we have moved from the grim cold themes of Ironsworn, to a jazzy intro reminiscent of an early aught's late night show.
One note I thought about in regards to this dichotomy, is it is really more of a sliding scale or shifting spectrum. Even the most open sandbox becomes linear once the players get going, and a straight dungeon crawl will go sideways when someone decides to kill the BBEG in an unexpected (like befriending them, or something.)
I want to recommend a Warhammer Fantasy Role Play Campaign: "The Enemy Within" is a linear/railroad adventure, followed by "The Shadows over Bögenhafen", also a linear adventure, but a little bit more open. The next adventure is "Dead on the Reik" which is more a limited sandbox adventure. As a beginning GM (and PC) this set-up is really useful. You start following the "railroad" and so it's more easy to learn the rules, game world and (N)PC's. And in the following adventures the world and choices for the PC's will grow gradually.
Agreed. Ran it twice. “Death on the Reik” sets a very high bar for sandbox style campaigns. One of the all time great RPG campaigns.
I have consumed everything that I can find that you have done concerning rpgs, I love your work and envy your energy. o7
1:33 - Imagine starting a mining company with dwarfs.. 😆
Most of my experience has been the "doing what the DM prepped" kind of thing. It never felt like being herded. It was pitting yourselves against the challenge set before you. Occasionally, we played a more off-the-cuff, roll on the random encounters table style, or the DM just improvised things to do. And generally we were free to do things our own way. But any play style is fine if done right, and by that I mean, if everyone has a good time.
Give me sandbox players any day... aaah I can dream can`t I! lol
Funnily enough, I've just started to prep "In the Shadow of Silveraxe", a limited sandbox "campaign" for OSE. And, without being really original, it manages an interesting balance...
I’m starting my first sandbox as a GM….I’ve done my best to impress the crucial nature of internal motivation in this style of play on my players, and they all say they want it and seem to be making characters that will have motivations to be involved with what’s going on in the area. so we’ll see how it goes!!
“Neverland” (and to a lesser extent “OZ”. OZ is rather larger.) and The Dark of Hotsprings Island are probably the best limited sandboxes I have ever seen. They are gobsmackingly good…just the freaking layout of those books much less the content.
For anyone who watches Critical Role, season 2 is an amazing showcase of a (mildly) limited sandbox.
I like that; offer three situations, not a linear plot, nor a living world, per se, because the PCs should be the main characters.
I made that mistake and really hurt a friend who could not believe I moved the 'plot' on without them, his PC captain and crew
I'm running two sandbox campaigns with Mausritter. The system holds everything up until now, but I'm afraid of that purposelessness you talk about may come one day.
I would say the "show me the adventure" type players have just been trained (ie broken) by other GMs to expect that leaving the train tracks just causes trouble
I've learned so much about gaming from your channel! Thanks so much for all you do. It has made me better at gaming!
My GM often makes it so that the campaign has both a linear "main plot" and sandbox surrounding it. If we decide to go for the linear plot, it is scaled to our level (i.e.: In the beginning, for level 1 players, things are easier, but if we stall, the "main plot" progresses without us and eventually when we come back to it we are no longer facing scrub enemies and solving easy quests.)
I think this combo works for solo too? Having at least a rough outline of where the plot will take you (either preselected or generated previously with the help of oracles/tables or maybe procedurally, having a milestone set of rolls to generate "main plot" progression every now and then when spending time in sandbox - perhaps after every X levels, quests or ingame days/weeks/years.)
Edit: And if the "main plot" is supposed to be of major impact to the game world, have a "point of no return" set where the "main plot" bleeds into the sandbox too, to incentivize players to interact with it (i.e.: Throughout the game the main bad guy, an evil necromancer, acts behind the curtains to create an army of undead, and after a few in-game months, his undead minions now roam the world and destroy towns, kill NPCs or corrupt them.)
It can be pretty fun to explore a scenario where the bad guys win, as in the example above. I can think of a particular Final Fantasy game, where (spoilers!) after about midway through the game, the main villain actually succeeds in ruining the world, and then the party has to regroup and rally forces to pose a last-ditch effort to stop him, however overpowered he is by then.
Great job. I think you explained it perfectly as well as some tips!
Hex crawl is and always will be my favorite style of campaign!
Never heard of the Limited sandbox before, but as you describe it, that's basically what most of my games are. I would've just called it sandbox though, to be honest, but your differentiation is clear enough. I see my roll as GM to provide a world populated with NPCs that want stuff. The players provide Characters that want things. The story happens when those two come into contact and need to work things out. That there is a wizard that wants you to slay a dragon is cool. But the dragon is an NPC to that wants something as well (beyond not being slain). The fun starts when the Dragon convinces the players that what he wants is actually closer aligned to what the players themselves want, so they should abandon their attempts of trying to slay him and actually join forces. Now what does the wizard thing about this, and how will the characters deal with it when they find out the dragon was just lying to them to save his own hide?
That's where the story starts to form!
Or you just have idiots like I've been saddled with for the past 20 years who don't give a damn about the Wizard, aren't dumb enough to risk their hide fighting a dragon, and decide to go west to see what's beyond the mountains. So, yeah, thank god that my games are sandbox...
As a (former) Game Master I noticed in myself the tendency for linear style where I come up with specific scenes that build atmosphere and they need to happen. I am aware though that too much of this is actually bad so if I ever tried making new adventures I would restrain myself from that. Also few years ago I joined small team where we played postapocalypse Fallout style RPG and GM was totally into sandbox style type of gameplay. I started to appreciate it more when I saw it from player's perspective. It takes some skill from GM to make it right though.
I strongly prefer a sandbox campaign to a [straightjacket railroad] I mean linier adventure. I hate bumping up against the invisible walls (like in a video game, where you can't leave the pre-prescribed adventure track). I can agree, however, that a limited sandbox can work, as long as there is real player agency; and in your example, if the characters can leave all three of your options alone and do something else if they want to (within your limited play area). So, if you have a region developed as a sandbox that I can play in, I am not going to complain too much that you don't have the entire world finished and ready for play. This is what we can not abide: th-cam.com/video/XhFxsaSh0kQ/w-d-xo.html
Not enough people mention Hârn. Sounds like an instant subscription and deep dive into the channel lol
You said D&D 5e!!! Lost all respect for you! But still love you man! O/J.
Completely agree, all the best campaigns I've been involved in have been limited sandboxes, too. I'm starting a new game with a small group using the ALIEN ttrpg next week. I'll definitely keep this perspective in mind!
I disagree because I can do that and you can't stop me. [Insert evil laugh]
I think your conclusion of using limited sandbox is good, and for the right reasons. I just think that ALL sandbox is inherently limited. Even if you somehow made an entire world, your character would still be naturally constrained by its circumstancss promises, bonds, etc... In other words, ALL sandbox is your limited-sandbox.
Sandbox means your character can do anything, not that it can do anything with no consequences.
Great tips! I myself am not a "new GM" anymore and haven't been for some time, and I'm itching for GMing a sandbox, but it's very scary to actually start. Your tips make a lot of sense and give me some insights into how to approach this.
One of the things I've decided to try in the somewhat-near future is using Numenera's setting as a sandbox, because it has all I need to understand what they should find wherever they go, but also giving me complete freedom to introduce craziness at any moment I see fit. Furthermore, the books include a bunch of linear adventures that I can "plug in" whenever they reach specific places, if I want to and if it feels right. I say Numenera's setting specifically because I think the setting asks for complete freedom and flexibility, but the mechanics are too gamey and limited to my taste. I'm probably going to run in on GURPS.
Limited Sandbox is my style too, when I run a table game. I can spend a little time on a railroad, and a little time in a pure sandbox... but just a little. Most of the time, we're somewhere between. One trick I use frequently (and it usually works) is to ask players what they intend to do next session at the end of every game night - that way I can go and make some plans. Without that kind of thing in place, you might find yourself improving for several hours straight. My best ideas are not usually my first ones, so I do like to mull things over during the off days.
Yes! That’s a great old trick that has worked for me as well :)
Great video. People feeling paralyzed at sandboxes has been a consistent issue for me throughout the years.
💖💗💓 Great GM observations!
Solo/co-op is the way of the future.
One of my favorite campaigns ever is The Darkening of Mirkwood for the one ring. It is such a good example of a limited sandbox.
"You don't dump all your spice into the stew" Um... Trevor this analogy doesn't work on me because this is exactly like I cook
Island settings are definitely good for the limited sandbox kind of thing. and if everything gets explored- more people can arrive at the island when you need them.
This is all great advice, even for solo roleplaying too. I'm in the middle of a Scarlet Heroes sandbox campaign so I'll bear all of this in mind :)
To me, the game that has been the quintessential campaign has to be Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic.
The Endar Spire is the basic gameplay tutorial dungeon. Taris is the first limited sandbox (Taris). Dantooine is the Force powers tutorial dungeon as well as where you learn the main objective of the campaign, the planets you need to go to in order to stop the Sith Empire via the star map, and a means of transportation via the Ebon Hawk.
After you leave Dantooine is where it becomes its most sandboxy: the players choose the order in which planets they explore, each of them containing their limited sandboxes. Between the second and third (or the third and fourth) planet, you get captured by the main villain who not only captures a pivotal party member but gives you the big reveal! Afterward your escape, you still have your mission to complete, all while your captured companion is being tortured by the main villain.
After completing the main objective on each planet on the star map, you discover the hidden planet which is where you can cut the source of power from the main villain's plans. This is also where the kidnapped companion returns but is evil! What do you do? Help them return to the light or succumb to the dark? How will the rest of your companions react?
Whatever it is that you decide, you have to deal with the main villain once and for all. With the might of you and your companions and your purpose in hand, you can now strike head-on without being blown to smithereens. The main villains forces are still overwhelming, and each party member stays behind to help you advance forward. In the end, it's a one-on-one fight. Your foe, ever the sore loser, extends his chances of victory by draining the life force of captured Jedi. Do you deprive him of his strategy by killing these captured Jedi or do you refrain from committing such heinous acts? In the end, victory is yours and the fate of the galaxy is in your hands. Are you its savior or its conqueror?
In essence, the structure of Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic is two funnels stuck together base-to-base. Within that constraint is a whole lot of action, drama, character development, and adventure. Running a campaign like that has been my aspiration and is something I hope to do before I die.
Heh, personally I'd say KOTOR is a pitch-perfect example of a linear adventure, as all those CRPG-style games are. You're on a railroad through the main story with some pre-written sidequests along the way just by virtue of how the game is written. There's no real choice or agency, just illusions of it, where even the optional outcomes are scripted, just like a typical modern DnD module. The only real choice is the order in which you encounter its linear threads. In video game terms, a stronger example of a sandbox, at least to me, would be a game like Mount & Blade or Crusader Kings, where there are next to no expectations on the player and they're telling an emergent story. M&B would be something of a limited sandbox because there's an immediate geographical area and a set conflict (civil war) in which the player is expected to involve themselves. CK would be an open sandbox, because the scope is player-defined and there are absolutely no preconceptions beyond your starting situation as to what you might do and why, or what your personal goals might be. There's a similar dichotomy in online games -- KOTOR is much like most "theme park" MMOs, where the goal is the linear story, essentially. A sandbox MMO would be Eve Online, where there's only your emergent narrative.
I play solo, so...not sure how I'm running my campaigns. I guess you could say it's sort of linear.
Whatever works!
ID be curious what the flaws are that you see in that DnD 5e module
I’ll probably do a video on that eventually.
If only your players could launch a T-62 tank onto a engineless barge, and let the current of the river cause the story. Sounds like a great idea.
Quiet, you.
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This might have been asked before but please can you confirm. Do you speak aloud to yourself when you play solo (not for the show) or do you run the game in your head? Cause I'm struggling and wondering if you think it's better to speak the narrative out loud or not.
I only really play solo for the show, but I understand that most people write things down journal style.
@@MeMyselfandDieRPG Thanks for the tip. Tbh I've found a mix so far is best. I'll just say you really have been brilliant to watch. I just finished season 3 and it was a great journey (will be going back to see 1&2). I'm new to RPG and solo is my preferred way atm. I love discovering the stories and being the conduit for the dice. Thanks for your great channel!
I tend to do a limited sandbox style. I'll set up a BBEG and a task to deal with, but I'll let them de ide where they go, and how they go about doing it, I may plan cities/towns/castles/Dungeons that gives them treasure/gold/information on the weaknesses of the BBEG but how they go about or choose which one is purely up to them. :)
I always believe that it's mostly down to what you and your players enjoy the most, as long as you're all having fun thats the main aim of it.
:)
For me it depends on the individual game rather than what is better; sandbox or linear. My favourite game is Call of Cthulhu and most (if not all) of the CoC adventures are linear; you are hired to investigate and defeat a mythos threat. I have yet to play in a truly epic sandbox adventure, although those I have played with have been good fun. The game that I’m currently GMing is Mutant Year Zero, which is similar to Twilight 2000 in a number of ways. The PCs are exploring a post-apocalyptic wasteland, which is a giant sandbox. Luckily, they have a base and that base has a number of needs so I’m able to give them the option of missions, very much like your Harn game. It’s a really fun game both as GM and player. I guess my point is that it all depends on the GM and the game; both can be excellent if presented right. I love Cthulhu’s linear games but chance to go and explore a map and find out what’s out there is the very heart of what adventuring is all about. How can you not love that, whether its in a limited sandbox or not. Thanks for the video, it’s an interesting discussion and I’m sure that people will have strong opinions.
I think you’re describing a Quest Board. Sly Flourish talks about that, using his 2 in 1 out method.
Unfamiliar with that. Link?
@@MeMyselfandDieRPG th-cam.com/video/6Z39FcIybcU/w-d-xo.html
This is the first time I've watched one of your videos. Great timing because it's been a topic of discussion at my table where one of my players realized they were a "Give me the adventure player"
Modular mini-adventures custom tailored for the group is always handy in sandboxes. Those you can pop in at any appropriate time, with hooks to entice PCs. Plus you can keep the unused ones for later, or modify as needed between sessions. Dangling a couple carrots, especially at the start. Mixed with the usual sandbox random encounters, it's a nice mix of options and helps PCs get moving when decision paralysis sets in.
In a survival sandbox like Twilight 2000, it could be something as simple as finding a group of baddies with a fuel truck while the PCs are almost out of fuel (or ammo, etc). Or villagers begging them for food of which they don't have enough to share, and need to go .. acquire.. from some warlord's base (some Robin Hood raiding). Intercepting a radio message between baddies about getting spare parts for a broken down armored vehicle or tank that's just sitting nearby with a small guard detail (dangle a powerful vehicle fixer-upper they could more easily acquire than normal, then a quest for parts afterward).
Build some custom hooks beforehand to intersperse with the normal random stuff. Toss in some moral quandaries depending on PC motivations and goals. Add some new ones between sessions to organically fit what's happening. Since they can be such small hooks, to start, it doesn't take a lot of work and you can expand them bit by bit between sessions if the players had fun and went for it.
This is an amazing video! I have been playing/GMing RPGs for 20ish years and am always hunting for tips and tricks to up my game and improve my abilities as a GM. This video game me a lot to think about with the difference between linear- and sandbox-style campaigns. And also with the different player types you mention, which I'd never really thought of before--at least not in those well-explained terms. Thank you SO MUCH for adding to my GM toolbox!
I'm loving this series.
I'd love to be able to watch your games one day. I love the solo stuff and would be really interested in seeing how you GM.
He has a video where he GM’s a 5e game with 2 players
th-cam.com/video/T_mFs4Uc9lw/w-d-xo.html
This is great. When you talked about the linear sandbox that reminds me of something Tracy Hickman wrote on X-Treme Dungeon Mastery. Give your player a sandbox so they have player agency, but you must also limit the sandbox in a way that doesn't disregard player intentionality. Player intentionality means whatever it is must be in keeping with the player's intentions; instead of forcibly teleporting players out or describing a huge unclimbable magic wall, say there's a battle between two kingdoms. And that battlefield won't clear any time soon for the adventure.
The players can try to pass through it. But they'll most likely be treated as hostiles by either side, making it extremely dangerous. So it's more like an implicit wall than an explicit wall. It doesn't mess with the players' intentions like a teleportation zone would.
And your example of the players' ties to their lord I think is a good implicit wall. If they run away, they'll probably be chased. If they disobey, they'll be punished. They can still do either actions but there are consequences instead of letting them sprint into a wall.
After playing the D&D (Red Box) introduction adventure twice, I naturally began sandbox game mastering, though over the years, I have wrote many adventures, I allowed for considerable flexibility within there design. This allow me to experience the unexpected just as much as my players.
Limited sandbox it is. That is why I'm looking into Forbidden Lands campaign books, adventure sites and all these possibilities this game can provide. One day I can explore the world solo, the other I can invite my friends to some old ruins or a castle by playing prepared adventure
As far as abandoned military goes, the highest ranking soldier will give the orders. That is the whole point of a "chain of command".
The chain of command has completely broken down in this setting; that’s part of the point.
@@MeMyselfandDieRPG The commander is dead? The First Sergeant takes over. He's dead too? The highest ranking NCO takes charge. This continues down to corporals, Specialists, Private First Class, then Privates. Then the earliest date of rank is in charge. If there's only one soldier left, well, he's out of a job.
Lol. You’re not hearing me. In T2K there is. No. More. Chain. Of. Command. Literally the first words the PCs hear from command is “Good luck. You’re on your own”. It’s the whole point of the setting. And what was fun for my group to realize in the session.
@@MeMyselfandDieRPG But the chain goes all the way down. Soldiers are trained to be disciplined enough to not go rogue at the first failure of leadership.
Yea. And the breakdown of that very discipline is what the setting is all about. And what we were experiencing in the game. Remember: this is after being stuck in a nuclear wasteland for 2 years with no hope of victory. Are you familiar with the T2k setting?
Trevor, can I ask why you think the Phandelver boxset is deeply flawed? Thanks!
In a most RPGs, the game gives experience points for doing certain things. Thus, the "motivation" (i.e. what you should be doing) is built into the game mechanics. In addition, games like Ironsworn, where you swear "vows," in essence, requires your PCs to come up with "motivations" on their own. Once you have sworn a vow, you have a goal, and can then proceed to figure out how to accomplish your vow. Along the way, you will likely swear another vow and so on. There is a good series showing how to play Ironsworn and you can see how this works in action here: th-cam.com/video/zVxJ3exjfgI/w-d-xo.html Also, the game is free: www.drivethrurpg.com/product/238369/Ironsworn
Ghosts of Saltmarsh has one of the only Sandbox settings that I have really enjoyed for 5e as a DM.
That first chapter has factions rivalries and a secret society all sketched out as well as a few very different wilderness areas (Night Hag queen of the forest with Oni bodyguards? Yes please)
I don't even care as much about the main adventures in the book, they're like a nice bonus.
My first solo RPG experience has been running a character through the Dreadwood to flesh it out. Taking notes on cool stuff so I can put it into the Sandbox in case a player wants to purge the darkness from the Dreadwood, I'll know what's there (might even be my solo RPG character, if he usurps the Night Hag..?)