Alan Wake 1: "It's not a lake it's an ocean" Alan Wake 2: "It's not a loop it's a spiral" Alan Wake 3: "It's not a door it's part of a wall that opens"
It is so impressive to me how the developers can merge real filming with a video game so well, to make it so immersing and interesting to watch and play. First in Control and now in Allan Wake 2. I love this.
Just finished AW2. Noticed something crazy, one of the taken that attacked the sheriff's station said "the oldest house is lost." Immediately threw me off guard.
I would assume the Taken who said that was an FBC agent before they were Taken, Estevez mentions that she lost agents to the Dark Presence. Based on Estevez’ dialogue, the oldest house is inaccessible at the moment, so It would make sense if this is just the Dark Presence mimicking the Taken agent’s fears about what has happened to the oldest house.
Mr. Door is Saga’s father. 1. Her mother is white so she’s half black. 2. Tor says to saga “some doors are better left closed” 3. Door had Old Gods of Asgard on his show 4. Mr. Door said Alan involved someone he cares about into the story.
5. The “father doll” that Saga finds looks like Mr. Door. Also, we didn’t get closure by seeing Tor & Odin in the dark place at the end of the game, but we actually did. They played a song for Alan Wake with Mr. Door earlier in the game.
I assumed that when Mr. Door told Alan he involved someone he cared about. Also, it seems like how the Anderson family have powers of seers, it seems Mr. Door and his family also have powers of being able to travel between realms through doors. Just how it says in the manuscript that Sheriff Breaker gave to Saga in The Dark Place on how to get into Parliament Tower. It could be that Saga inherited both powers from both the Anderson side and Door side.
Yeah, about 4... I thought he was talking of Tim(e) Breaker all along. At the end of Quantum Break, Mr. Hatch needed him on his side. Not to prevent the end of time, but to ensure it.
The theory that Zane is the real antagonist is pretty mind blowing and honestly not something I thought about. It also ties into another theory I have regarding him - the reason the live action sequences exist (at least in the meta sense) is because they're all Zane - he's the one directing them. After all, he did say Scratch collaborated with him on 'Return', so this is his part in all of this
when we first meet zane again in the hotel and alan remarks on them looking the same, my first thought was alan is zanes creation much like Casey is alan's, and then Zane described himself as a director and I immediately thought "and everything has been his attempts to escape" and then i realized that they even confirm that alan is a creation and not a native to reality, the reason it was so easy for them to force the darkness out of casey was because he wasn't some character Alan dreamed up he was someone alan changed, so the ending at least from my understanding confirms Alan is a character zane created
Alan is ‘native to reality’. Alan and Zane don’t create new people, they change things that already exist. Alan tells us this is what he did with Casey and Saga. They were both already real but he rewrote their lives to fit into the story. Saga got written into Return, Casey (I think) was written into Initiation too. That’s why real life Casey talks about a murder cult in New York he was chasing; Alan wrote that in Initiation and it then actually happened.
He has a very nice, relaxing voice. He and papa lazy are nice background noise that you can focus on to make the insomnia bees quiet down enough to sleep.
Same! I don't play Resident Evil but one of my online gaming friends does, so now I can understand what the hell he's talking about thanks to his videos.
Alan Wake is clearly on some Donnie Darko kinda of story telling. and the fact is you see it in small moments till it grows beyond it's control is damn nice to see.
David Lynch is the OG comparison. Donnie Darko (and Alan Wake) were heavily influenced by his surreal art house style of story telling. If you haven't seen them, check out Twin Peaks and Mulholland Drive. They are the closest fiction to Alan Wake besides a few Stephen King books
They played heavily into Twin Peaks with this sequel, specifically Twin Peaks“The Return” season. Then throw in the story is called “Return” Mr Scratch is the Evil Cooper AlanWake is Cooper it’s insane
Something I want to mention regarding Mr. Scratch and American Nightmare is the possibility that the events of American Nightmare altered how Scratch worked. When we first saw him at the end of the first game, he was clearly a distinct entity, albeit one that looked like Alan, but here, he's essentially a demonic presence that needs to possess someone. American Nightmare would bridge the gap and explain the difference, at least to some degree. We saw that Scratch was still a distinct entity that's separate from Alan in American Nightmare, but Alan destroyed him at the end. Or rather, destroyed his physical body, forcing him into a more ethereal presence that we see in this game. The change in personality between the two games could also be chalked up to that defeat, as being destroyed would leave Scratch a lot more enraged and hate filled than he was even in American Nightmare.
Scratch also represents Alan’s worst parts of himself. It’s a stylistic change that loosely connects and I’m okay with that. I prefer scratch as a more ominous presence rather than a goofy villian.
Scratch was always part of Alan. But the Dark Presence/Scratch was only officially birthed by Alan being stuck for too long in the Dark Place, making a part (or a version) of him go insane. In American Nightmare, Scratch is personified as en Evil double of Alan, but from what we've seen in AW2, it seems like it was always inside of alan. Maybe the American Nightmare was just a way that Alan wrote the story and Scratch into another entity so that he could face that entity more directly, but he's essentially just facing his own mind. Or that's just him in another part of the loop (spiral)
In one of the dark place videis Alan says this "How do you run from an idea, from a story that's stuck inside your head." Maybe Alan did defeat scratch, but since the idea of the Dark presence, and the idea of "Scratch is Alan Wake" was still inside his head, the dark place manifested and essentially rendered both indestructible. It kinda annoys me that this is headcannon and not something confirmed or denied by the story, but this is the idea I'll go with.
Didn’t expected you would covering this game so soon!!! Somehow I expecting the Remedy Connected Universe would be clear up in CONTROL’s sequel, as the story appears more and more that the FBC is the center of its all.
I think the FBC, for all it's resources and information, is still an organization that FEELS they are at the center or it all, but the vastness of reality, the entities that exist with parallel dimensions, etc is still WAY out of their depth. I can't wait to see what Jesse and Polaris do, but I like that the FBC was ultimately on the sidelines for this project. I love the idea of more Remedy games out there that don't even mention the FBC until games later when they are acknowledged. I'm terrified of the FBC getting treated as some paranormal avengers organization. I'd love to see ANOTHER organization like the FBC that have their own things going on as well.
@@devinkerr5474 Good point, I believe the ‘Monarch Solutions’ from ‘Quantum Break’ could be another organization that has the role to the multi-dimensional phenomenon as well. I guess it was because of the licensing issue that Remedy has with other publishers of the previous games that prevent them from fully integrated every game story settings.
Not to scare you further, but genuinely curious, will experiencing this be adding to the god-hope-not potential schizophrenia where you might wonder if you're in a reality like his?
This was a great video. No wonder it took Sam Lake 13 years . Not only did he tie in Control & Quatum Break in the Alan Wake universe with actual lore too connect the dots. Good writing . Kind of has the Christopher Nolan touch.
One more piece of supporting evidence for Door being Saga's father, Harry: when Saga asks Tor about her father, Tor says her father was "always thinking too many steps ahead." When Breaker hands Saga the manuscript page in the Dark Place, it reveals that Door was aware of Alan Wake writing about him and allowed it so that it could be used at the right time. He stops Breaker from handing it to her early on in the story and takes him to the Dark Place so that he can meet Saga later in the story, helping her in that moment by providing the manuscript page which teaches her about her abilities. That's thinking quite a few steps ahead. Coincidence?
The story is really good. Game play is mediocre at best. I really tried to finish it and just gave up half way trough. Also, it's Epic only. The sales are not the best, I guess.
@rhinoman86 I played RE4 remake before this. And RE4 combat is the definition of 3rd person fun combat. AW2 didn't come even close to that. I love AW2 story and visual storytelling, but the underwhelming combat and long walking session made it way too boring. And I like slow paced games. For example, RDR2 and KCD are my favorite RPGs.
You mention that Casey's memories of investigating the Cult were caused by Alan's writing, but Casey's recollection of the events appears to have been confirmed by that document in Control that was written years before this draft of Initiation was written. Casey was investigating Alan well before this AWE took place, so while it's possible that the Cult wasn't a part of that, it doesn't feel conclusive enough to just write it off entirely yet. There's a chance that the time bending nature of the Dark Place allowed for some trickery to occur, but I'm not entirely sure about that atm.
The dark place can for sure do things that like time wise. So I think it’s possible. Initiation the way I see it takes place during the whole 13 years while he was gone, before, and after all at once.
It’s definitely intended to be Hatch but a)they can’t call him Hatch cause they don’t own Quantum Break and b) Lance unfortunately passed like you said. Basically, it is Hatch, or another version of that character, we just have to pretend it isn’t for legal reasons.
He may have been recast due to health complications that led to his death, but he was in all likelihood still alive when the live action segments were shot. He only passed 8 months ago, which would be crazy late in the development process to start filming.
Nice, I've been waiting for this ever since the game released. I don't even play 99% of the games shown on this channel but rather just listen to you tell the story. Keep up the good work🔥
I do the same. I enjoy listening to the story much more than playing. Also he's one of the best ones I've seen. I love this channel, it's definitely a favourite for me. Thank you GamingHarry! Looking forward to your future videos! 😊
I'm honestly thinking this will go down as an elevation of Alan's story in every single way, I ADORE the first game's story, and sadly, do not yet, have the hardware to play the sequel. But longplays and videos like these satiate the hunger for fulfillment. It honestly sounds like it'll be referenced at the benchmark of Meta fiction. And Alan being caught on a talkshow about a project he has no memories of working on is LITERALLY one of my personal nightmares.
It's great that the FBC are more involved in the campaign than i expected, given their confieldential and mysterious existence. However i do wish to have a reaally short snapshot of fayden cameo in the ending since this game doesn't really explain amything abt the frequent appearances of casper darling
control spoilers: the prevailing theory is that the heavy exposure to the resonance from hedron caused caspar darling to…evolve/transform into a being on a higher dimension (which is basically confirmed by him being able to communicate with jesse via the hotline at the end of control) and-aside from the great easter egg of him being featured in alan wake 2-i think the reason he appears on the tv sets is because he’s a form of resonance now and connecting jesse to alan. similar to the way alan connected to jesse in the awe dlc.
Now the question is why is alan write a story for control's AWE expansion. Is it solely to remove hartman? Is it an another failed attempt of writing the initiation or return manuscript? How did he even know FBC in the first place?
@@kiwee4577 the awe dlc either heavily implies or states that alan may have written the fbc into existence; probably as one of the means of freeing himself from the dark place. also, one of his manuscript pages is in the panopticon and i’m hoping that remedy will fully develop that plot line. and we still don’t know the full scope of what alan wrote during his first 13 years in the dark place, aside from initiation and return, because even he doesn’t remember it all. i’m excited to find out.
Tim also said Mr door was hit by lighting. Tor’s lighting as we found out tor’s hammer can summon lighting and tor admits that he did something to saga’s father that made freya (saga’s mother) cut ties with him and it would explain how saga has the same power to open doors and travel anywhere in the dark place unlike Allan
Door and Hatch being the same person makes a lot of sense, just look at the names. Also Breaker and Joyce share a striking resemblance, also makes a lot of sense. There was also Night Springs reference on one of TVs in Quantum Break if I remember correctly.
Can’t wait for the Night Springs expansion in 2024. Lake house expansion will also be coming after that one as well. It’s interesting to note, just south of Nightingales murder scene. There’s a an FBC gate to the Lake house that has an intercom Saga can interact with. When interacting with it, you try to contact the FBC at the lake house, but static only comes from the other end! It’s amazing to see how well Remedy sets up their future content within each and every new release!
I like how even if you havent played control, you immediately know there's something up with Ahti. Even if he isn't super involved in the plot you can tell he's something more
The only possible explanation to the story is that Sam Lake is an artistic genius and his vision for the RCU is his magnum opus. After beating AW2 i am looking forward to the DLCs and Control 2 as well. Remedy entertainment is a top tier game developer.
@ishraquenoor He pretty much is. Sam Lake/Alex Cayse is Max Payne. Similiar issue as with Quantum Break. Max Payne is now owned by Rockstar. He is the same actor, same voice actor, wears the same leather jacket in NY, and he lives through the same twisted depressing detective shit. What if all of Alex Casey stories are just Max Payne stories? Maybe Max is just a Wakes book, or it's just a cool Easter egg.
Man. I love this game. It's been 10+ years since I last had so much fun with a game. Not really the gameplay, but the story, atmosphere, crafting theories and just the general weirdness of it all. I love it so much. It gave showed me a bit of the love I had for games back then again. Edit: I gotta say though, the entire line of thought that "the cult created the monsters" throughout the game is a bit annoying to me. It's incredibly obvious right from the start, that this is not the case. They KNOW that the ritual wasn't completed, yet a monster showed up. They KNOW that the ritual WAS completed with the other murders, yet no monster showed up. It's a simple 1+1=2 yet they decide 2*2=26.
Remedy knows how to create a headache. A headache you really want to figure out. Thank you for the time and effort you put into this. I'm loving the fact that they are tying all of their games into their own story.
A developer at the studio apparently said they're confident that fans aren't gonna figure out the whole picture of the RCU anytime soon, but they're very happy to have people keep on guessing. Really shows the planning work that's gone into this to make it so interconnected without just randomly stitching together narratives to keep players guessing.
Reality and Fiction merging together fits the " Its not a loop , its a spiral "quote like a glove . You literally can question everything and be right .
If the Oceanview Hotel is a preexisting bridge to other worlds. And the dark place was always a place of power under cauldron Lake then it makes Zane's actions quite suspicious - even before the dark precense started messing his life up. The qualities of the dimension where the dark presence resides, allow fiction and emotion to bend reality (like how your emotions might bend your dreams/nightmares) , its most strongly affected by art when it's inflenced in our reality. Zane wanted to start a commune of creatives at cauldron lake - this would essentially tap into their ability to augment reality with their art using the dark place as a catalyst. He also wanted to build an Oceanview hotel there (very sus naming coincidence), this would possibly establish a gateway into the real oceanview hotel crossroads dimension. With this in mind, it makes it sound like he bit off more than he could chew but wasn't some clueless artist when it came to the paranormal who got manipulated by forces he wasn't expecting, perhaps Zane is a Para criminal of sorts. Maybe Zane is the dark presence, a man who got trapped in a realm of thought after experimenting on how to get in and turned into a force of chaos, thats why Ahti calls Alan Tom - everytime Ahti meets alan he's still possessed by the dark presence. I think the first time Ahti meets alan, he says something like "he sees the darkness in alan, but also sees a little light". (Side thought: the clicker is an object of power and has been imbued with the power of the dark place and alan is bonded to it. The FBC like to collect people like alan to become their directors (similar to jessie/dylan and polaris), after which point they usually bond with more objects of power (I.e. the service weapon, floppy disk). This suggest that if a director of the FBC ever bonded with the clicker they'd have the power to augment reality. Similar to what the ashtray OoP can do, where it can augment reality to create infinite mazes that have no space requirements.)
i have a very thin theory that tom/alan created the oceanview motel when he created the oceanview hotel since the dark place exists outside of time and the oceanview motel connects to other dimensions including the astral plane, the writer’s room, ahti’s “janitor’s closet” and more. the dark place seems to be a metaphysical space, like the astral plane, not a place of power like the oldest house. and alan/tom seems to have the power to shape it to his conscious/subconscious. when saga leaves her mind place in the dark place-through a door!-she’s in alan/tom’s dark place version of new york then uses seemingly the water in the fountain at the center of alan/tom’s dark place version of new york to travel to alan/tom in the writer’s room. i don’t think that alan is bonded to the clicker because several other characters have used it successfully. the clicker’s different than the other oops because the oops in control bond jesse to the board through the oops, which means the board places limitations on access to abilities through oops. it confirms some of the theories that the board is essentially a parasite using the astral plane and fbc to further its own agenda and will eventually lead to a major conflict between jesse and the board.
I mean the Old Gods of Asgard still call Tom even after he got the dark presence removed so i think Alan and Tom are the same person, also would explain why they look the same no the question is if Tom trying to project himself out by creating Alan or if there is some other reason
People complain a lot about the name, even if you play as another character, the story still pivots around Alan Wake. Saga is 'just' the primary point of view character, but the story doesn't truly revolve around her, it revolves around the impact that Allan's story has on her and her life.
Just a random 2 cents, I almost wonder if... Zane is a character from the original Tom the poet's creation, Zane created Wake for himself, and it's really a long line past even that. The poet created by a singer, the singer created by a storyteller, etc. all the way back to the first person who was scared of the dark, made stories about that fear, and effectively gave the darkness an evil shape. All the world's a play, and we are merely actors in some grander thing. Could you imagine? entire realities created to form life, to create a chain of events through human history, all for architecting a character solidly founded in reality to change that reality. A quantum level of world building.
I’ve been waiting for a breakdown video and this is more than what i could’ve wished for! Always love hearing people’s theories/analysis on Remedy’s Lore. Great job as always :)
Just rolled credits on Alan Wake 2 & while it did get a little messy at the end this game is nothing short of a 10/10 masterpiece. While it is the masterful sequel to AW1 its also a celebration of Remedy & how they write stories their characters and set the tone for what's ahead. Taking bits and pieces from OG Max Payne 1 & 2 even the great and underappreciated Quantum Break and of course Control. Not only can i not wait for where Alan Wake goes from here but what insanity Control 2 will be.
where do people get the idea that this is masterpiece? it falls short in its story in multiple parts which clearly need DLC to explain. they gave us a 20 hour experience yet cant explain why nobody cared when 2 cops were killed in the basement, one goes missing and the only survivors walk out of the building without question. it literally happened in the first few hours and the pit falls dont stop there.
@@MrPlaylistManyou could argue a few answers to your question. The town's people know about the Taken, the power the lake has, etc, so maybe they're just used to it? And/or they're just playing dumb because they don't trust Saga yet? And/or the horror story at that moment has literally only spread as far as the basement so that's why the cops upstairs aren't reacting? I understand that waving off every issue as "it's just the fiction messing with reality" is a bit of a cop out but let's be honest, if you're a fan of Remedy then you know by now that you're not going to have everything answered, some elements are just up to your interpretation.
@@PlaidSuitPinstripeWorld I mean yeah it is a pretty big cop out, I've played most of remedy's titles and only started to see problems in Control. The Oldest House can get away with more because of what it is and it's rules aren't explained (assuming it has any). But the dark place isn't the oldest house so not following the rules set in the first game and giving it properties of Control just feels confused and convoluted. Also it gives them another reason to make more content which would be great if this story was more compelling than the first.
@@alezio299 the only people in town who seem very aware of the dark presence is those in the cult, rose and the Andersons. the cult was created to keep people away from the lake (which is where the dark presence lives). So wouldn't the dark presence being in the police station put people on even more high alert if they all knew about it considering they know what the dark presence can do.
Alan Wake is one of those franchises that truly utilizes the all-encompassing nature of video games. Video games are the MMA of media, so this game is beyond special for making all the elements tangible.
Like Tor and Odin, Ahti is also named after a Nordic god, but from Finnish pagan pantheon. God Ahti was god of waters, and Ahti does talk about water and it's powers quite a lot.
@@XcelesteXmagixX It's the same guy/eldritch entity/deity(?) My theory is that he is in fact literally a janitor, cosmically: he's a being that cleans up "messes" like the hiss and dark presence. The FBC are useful allies/agents/tools for this, so the position of FBC director IS in fact that of a janitor's assistant. (Remember, his first interaction with Jesse involved him being certain she'd come to the Oldest House to apply for that job. He also references her assisting him when he gives her quests.)
Great analysis, I've enjoyed it immensely. Thanks for clarifying a lot of things. My mind got jumbled as the narrative changed between Alan and Saga. Alan's parts can be pretty confusing, and you can feel the torture of the loop. No wonder he stopped writing, it's pure madness. My head started to hurt and I had to take a break, but I enjoyed the musical part a lot, which is surprising since I don't even like musicals. When Saga was in the dark place trapped in her mind room and when you investigate the objects and see Stacey Marrow as her mentor/supervisor I was like leo di caprio pointing meme because I remembered your earlier video about investigating the Cauldron Lake Murders. Thanks again!
Great video! But one thing to note: I don't think, that the bit from Tims board about the redheaded woman connected to polyhedrons is necessarily about headron. I think it literally means the geometric structure known as a polyhedron. Jesse's polyhedron is indeed the containment unit of headron, but Beth's polyhedron is the countermeasure.
I feel it’s probable that scratch, Alan, and Tom are all the same people, but it’s like a reality spiral slowly moving and each level of progression all interact with each other, if that makes sense. They kind of loop and intermingle, affecting each of their realities. But there’s so much I missed in this game and it’s pretty convoluted. I didn’t tend to dig around for lore too much as I found the atmosphere so foul I just wanted to move on 💀 I also forgot all of Alan wake 1. But Tom Zane is played by the same actor, they switch around, and people call Alan, Tom. It’s been stated that scratch is Alan, so it’s pretty fair to say that they’re the same people (at different parts of the spiral? I also feel there’s heavy reference to Carl yung’s philosohy, with “shadow work” and such. Each version are of the same person with different parts of their psyche. The shadow work is clearwhen saga is in the dark place and is confronted with all her insecurities and fears, and she needs to break out by self affirmation and psychoanalysis. The dark place can be seen as the inner psyche and you have to work through your issues to escape to freedom. You can get caught in thought and behavioural loops which is represented literally. Saga is the most rational and level headed meaning she can navigate with more ease. Or maybe I’m chatting absolute nonsense. Decent video tho, thanks for the effort and insight !
If you guys think about it, at the end of Quantum Break, Jack showed symptoms of being a shifter and shifters are known for existing in each parallel timeline at once and that explains why tim breaker remembers another version of him in a different timeline because he’s been split from his original counterpart: jack joyce. If we all think about it too, the same case could be for mr door, he could just be another version of mr hatch from quantum break because mr hatch is a shifter himself
The analysis after the summary (from about 1:38:24) was really helpful because of the information from other Remedy properties that you included (which I, as a non-game-player, needed for context).
Excellent. The last part of this does exactly what I wanted and adressed all the characters with power calling Wake, Tom. I think you're exactly right. Wake and Scratch isn't actually real. Thomas Zane has written the whole story. One note though, in the video you said you think he wrote it so he's a film maker, that's why Cynthia remembers him as a poet. I'm quite sure it's the other way around. Remember, his first movie was "Tom the poet". This movie is the whole story of "The poet who lost his wife in the lake who then needed to cut out her heart and write them both out of existence." Cynthia was a character in that story, etc. But that also means that Tom must have created the dark presence and the lake and the cabin for the purposes of that movie (story). So then nothing is real, Initiation, Return, the FBC and the events of Control, they are all just stories set in the universe Thomas created in "Tom the poet" and none of it is manifested in "the real world" because there is no lake and dark presence to make the stories come true in the "real world", all those things first appeared in Tom's first movie (the only movie the world ever saw before he disappeard) "Tom the poet". So basically, the way I see it, Remedy has written a story, where a movie maker Thomas Zane wrote a movie plot in the 70's depicting himself as a diver and a poet, in this movie the film maker creates bright falls, the dark presence, the bright presence, the lake, Cynthia the adoring fan, all of it. Alan wake (another embodyment of Thomas, this time a writer, not a poet), Casey, the FBC, all their stories are either stories inside that movie or sequals set in the same universe. The filemaker also wrote himself in again, but this time not as a dive suit wearing poet, but as the film maker he really is. We're basically just in Zane's mind through all these games exploring his creative mind and all it's artistic aspects.
Holy hell! I thought I understood this game/series/universe but you just made all the loose pieces in my head finally fit together. This is a phenomenal video. I look forward to playing whatever Remedy puts out next and of course, the two DLCs promised for Alan Wake 2. Upon finishing, I will be coming here, to you, for you to make it all fit all over again. Seriously, great work and thank you.
sam lake is making a video game with thomas zane making a film with alan wake writing a book to escape the dark place. This is the dark place and sam lake is trying to escape
My small comment here: A wild guess or theory. . . . . Alan was also a sort of seer before Brigt falls too, probably. That's why he got a glips of Casey's life all the time until he killed him in the books.
I so excited for the upcoming DLC and Control 2, it’s been such a great mystery to unravel and can’t wait to see what is next after all known projects!
You state that Sarah Breaker joined the FBI, but the dialogue specifically said “She joined the feds”. It’s more than likely she joined the FBC like her father, not the FBI
Has anyone noticed that by the end of the events of the game, pretty much all of the characters ended up in the dark place? Saga and Alex Casey are seemingly left there, Alan and Tom (who more and more appear to be one and the same) are there, Tor and Odin went into the lake, Mr. Door is there, Tim Breaker got transported into the dark place, Alice returned there, even Rose got inside, Ahti is everywhere. Could mean a lot for the continuation.
Like a spider's web everything is connected but unlike the web centre keeps shifting and you never know what is at the centre. AW1 and Control are interconnected and chances are there is a third game that will basically expand further the whole universe... lets see what Remedy do nest. Thank you for this Lore and Order episode it was an absolute gem.
it happens at the same time as the event of Jesse taking over the role as a director I think. As the note suggests that agent Estevez left the Bureau to Bright Falls and the FBC went dark
So the musical level and all of the talk show stuff happens because Tor and Odin walked into the lake to enter the Dark Place, and came to an agreement with Mr Door right?
I had an idea while watching this video. Clearly there is something going on with the Tom Zane/ Alan Wake thing. What if when Tom Zane wrote himself out of existence he is still sentient but has no body. So he took the closet one he could and he has been taking Alan's form which is why he looks like him. He has been altering the story in the background to make it possible. This is most likely entirely off base as Tor, Odin and Ahti all know Alan as Tom and they seem immune to the horror story. It could be another interesting explanation for what is going on. Though I can also see Wake being a creation of Zane.
Alan Wake 1 : First encounter with Dark Place and Dark Presence Alan Wake 2 : Defeat Dark Presence, still stuck in Dark Place Alan Wake 3 : Defeat Light Presence ? End of Alan Wake ?
I think it's important to think about how Alan's timeline in the game might take place after the events of Saga for the sole reason that we see The Old Gods of Asgard in the Dark Place. Unless they are just a weird, dark manifestation of the band (considering the guitarist is here but he's dead in the real world) or an overlooked detail by Remedy. But if the Dark Place doesn't follow the logic of space or time, then the "loop" or "spiral" that the Alan we play could be the one that woke back up in the Dark Place in the post credit scene. Honestly, this story is insanely confusing (in a good way lol) and I cannot wait for the DLCs to shed some more light on things. Hopefully we can get an idea of what happens with Wake from them or if they make another Control title. I can't wait to see the direction the devs take this amazing franchise in the coming years. Here's hoping we get some lore on everyone's favorite janitor! Näkemiin!
Just got done beating AW 2 yesterday, loved! I had a though thought. Remember when Alan says it's not a loop it's a spiral? Well doesn't Jesse from Control have that entity in her, remember when she brings it up or talks to it shows a "spiral" thingy? I'm thinking there connected not quite sure but I feel like that's the dark presence maybe.
I heard there's been an update to Outlast Trials. I'd love to see you play it on your second channel and ofcourse if there's new lore a video on here too would be sick! Your content is great 👍🏻 Thanks for reading.
Amazing video! I was able to find out a lot of things I missed during my first play through and understand the story way better, thank you so much for the hard work you put in Harry
I actually have a theory that the entire storyline for the Alan Wake games is really meant to be a metaphorical extension of the creative thought process going on in Thomas Zane's head and how his creative writing abilities are hindered possibly by personal circumstances in his life that have caused writer's block and/or lack of a desired successful career as a filmmaker and poet. Here's my reasoning: 1) The game basically confirms that Alan Wake IS Thomas Zane and that Mr. Scratch IS effectively both of them but possessed by the Dark Presence. I would theorize that the Dark Presence is meant to be a manifestation of Zane's sense of trauma and despair due to changing life circumstances, most likely Barbara dying and/or their relationship turning sour. This could have made him want to start over and/or re-imagine himself as someone else to deal with his trauma, hence Alan Wake 2) There are 2 women shown to have had some kind of relationship with Thomas Zane: Barbara Jagger and Cynthia Weaver, the latter of whom was jealous of Barbara b/c Thomas Zane went with her instead of Cynthia. The fact that the clicker which Wake/Zane claims to need in order to "get out of the Dark Place" is part of Cynthia's angel light fixture, could mean that she in some ways had what Zane needed in some way in order to get past his mental fog, but that he ignored or chose not to go with her despite this. However it's clear that the fact that she loved and cared about him seemed to inspire him in some way, judging by the importance he placed on the clicker and that it came from her 3) In regards to Alice Wake being Alan a.k.a. Thomas Zane's "muse," she herself is either the woman in the real world who Zane chose to be with, or is possibly an idealized version of Cynthia or the role Cynthia has seemingly played more indirectly in Zane's life. The fact that Barabara and Cynthia both appear as relatively middle-aged while Alice appears young could mean that she's different in some way. It's clear that Alan Wake himself is meant to be a younger and potentially more idealized version of Thomas Zane that he wrote of himself and given that Alice exists as Alan Wake's lover, she too may be a just an idealized creation by Thomas Zane of the ideal lover who he longs for or feels he needs as a "muse" for inspiration. 4) The fact that Zane seems to see both Alan Wake and Mr. Scratch as necessary for the story seems to indicate that Alan is like Zane's "rational" side while Mr. Scratch is the base-nature, unhinged, irrational aspect of Zane that embodies the rage and frustration that Zane feels in his life. Zane ultimately seems to believe that he needs **both** these sides of himself, in moderation, in order to get through his mental fog and come out stronger and this seemingly succeeds since Mr. Scratch's work ultimately does what it was intended to do with his writing: help Zane/Alan push through
Thank you so much. This is a game were a 20 minute video would not explain the plot. I saw you 2 hour video and said i respected you because it would be long enough to do it justice.
Alan Wake 1: "It's not a lake it's an ocean"
Alan Wake 2: "It's not a loop it's a spiral"
Alan Wake 3: "It's not a door it's part of a wall that opens"
It’s not a door it’s a gate
It's not a flatbread it's a pizza
Is that just a jar?
It's not a boulder, it's a rock.
@@Novikous it's not a penis, it's a cock (keeping up the rhyme)
It is so impressive to me how the developers can merge real filming with a video game so well, to make it so immersing and interesting to watch and play. First in Control and now in Allan Wake 2. I love this.
Are parts of AW 2 actually video footage?
Its almost too good looking
@@fepethepenguin8287 Ye, there are some scenes with real filming.
@@skytrigger id love to see a movie filmed that way
@@fepethepenguin8287 ???? :D
Wowowow
Just finished AW2. Noticed something crazy, one of the taken that attacked the sheriff's station said "the oldest house is lost." Immediately threw me off guard.
That could mean that dark place is somehow connected to hisss
I thought that was confirmed in the Alan Wake DLC of Control. I don't remember exactly, but I thought Scratch had been behind The Hiss appearing.
@@mr_rogue1774 just finished control again and yes its not Said that scratch created hiss but its possibilitie 🤔🤔
I would assume the Taken who said that was an FBC agent before they were Taken, Estevez mentions that she lost agents to the Dark Presence.
Based on Estevez’ dialogue, the oldest house is inaccessible at the moment, so It would make sense if this is just the Dark Presence mimicking the Taken agent’s fears about what has happened to the oldest house.
@@umgakwarhammster4191 isn't the hiss seen attacking the dark presence in the control dlc
Mr. Door is Saga’s father.
1. Her mother is white so she’s half black.
2. Tor says to saga “some doors are better left closed”
3. Door had Old Gods of Asgard on his show
4. Mr. Door said Alan involved someone he cares about into the story.
5. The “father doll” that Saga finds looks like Mr. Door.
Also, we didn’t get closure by seeing Tor & Odin in the dark place at the end of the game, but we actually did. They played a song for Alan Wake with Mr. Door earlier in the game.
I thought that was pretty obvious towards the latter half of the game, the question we should be asking is who/what exactly is Mr Door?
I assumed that when Mr. Door told Alan he involved someone he cared about. Also, it seems like how the Anderson family have powers of seers, it seems Mr. Door and his family also have powers of being able to travel between realms through doors. Just how it says in the manuscript that Sheriff Breaker gave to Saga in The Dark Place on how to get into Parliament Tower. It could be that Saga inherited both powers from both the Anderson side and Door side.
Nice pfp bro. Californication is my fav album by them then btw and then stadium arcadium. The musical trinity.
Yeah, about 4... I thought he was talking of Tim(e) Breaker all along. At the end of Quantum Break, Mr. Hatch needed him on his side. Not to prevent the end of time, but to ensure it.
The theory that Zane is the real antagonist is pretty mind blowing and honestly not something I thought about. It also ties into another theory I have regarding him - the reason the live action sequences exist (at least in the meta sense) is because they're all Zane - he's the one directing them. After all, he did say Scratch collaborated with him on 'Return', so this is his part in all of this
when we first meet zane again in the hotel and alan remarks on them looking the same, my first thought was alan is zanes creation much like Casey is alan's, and then Zane described himself as a director and I immediately thought "and everything has been his attempts to escape" and then i realized that they even confirm that alan is a creation and not a native to reality, the reason it was so easy for them to force the darkness out of casey was because he wasn't some character Alan dreamed up he was someone alan changed, so the ending at least from my understanding confirms Alan is a character zane created
@@roberttucker5924
Did you know that Alan and Zane are played by the same actor?
@@MachoMaster I mean yeah
Sam Lake aka Alex Casey in the game is both the antagonist and protagonist, he is the lead director and writer for the game.
Alan is ‘native to reality’. Alan and Zane don’t create new people, they change things that already exist.
Alan tells us this is what he did with Casey and Saga. They were both already real but he rewrote their lives to fit into the story. Saga got written into Return, Casey (I think) was written into Initiation too. That’s why real life Casey talks about a murder cult in New York he was chasing; Alan wrote that in Initiation and it then actually happened.
Mate you are the only dude who’s been able to explain this game in a comprehensible way. Godspeed soldier.
Well i assume in such short time his is one of the veery few videos you watched about AW2 so your compliments may be a bit quickly given 😂
The game was comprehensible though
is it weird that I fall asleep listening to gaming harry vids most nights? 😂 it's like listening to a story in a chilled voice right ?
me too man, his videos help with my insomonia
@@lopez94000 ikr! it's relaxing even if it's a horror game lol
I do every night he helps with my insomnia and his videos are so oddly relaxing
There are a bazillion Long-Form Analysis videos on TH-cam that are like this. It's addicting
He has a very nice, relaxing voice. He and papa lazy are nice background noise that you can focus on to make the insomnia bees quiet down enough to sleep.
The lore and order is what brought me here. You can’t believe how often I go back to listen to your outlast videos
Same I rewatch all his videos because I’ve watched them all😭
Same! I don't play Resident Evil but one of my online gaming friends does, so now I can understand what the hell he's talking about thanks to his videos.
Alan Wake is clearly on some Donnie Darko kinda of story telling. and the fact is you see it in small moments till it grows beyond it's control is damn nice to see.
David Lynch is the OG comparison. Donnie Darko (and Alan Wake) were heavily influenced by his surreal art house style of story telling. If you haven't seen them, check out Twin Peaks and Mulholland Drive. They are the closest fiction to Alan Wake besides a few Stephen King books
Donnie Darko is my favorite movie of all time and I was playing this game I would tell my friends “it’s like if Donnie Darko was a video game” !
They played heavily into Twin Peaks with this sequel, specifically Twin Peaks“The Return” season. Then throw in the story is called “Return”
Mr Scratch is the Evil Cooper
AlanWake is Cooper it’s insane
Something I want to mention regarding Mr. Scratch and American Nightmare is the possibility that the events of American Nightmare altered how Scratch worked. When we first saw him at the end of the first game, he was clearly a distinct entity, albeit one that looked like Alan, but here, he's essentially a demonic presence that needs to possess someone.
American Nightmare would bridge the gap and explain the difference, at least to some degree. We saw that Scratch was still a distinct entity that's separate from Alan in American Nightmare, but Alan destroyed him at the end. Or rather, destroyed his physical body, forcing him into a more ethereal presence that we see in this game. The change in personality between the two games could also be chalked up to that defeat, as being destroyed would leave Scratch a lot more enraged and hate filled than he was even in American Nightmare.
Scratch also represents Alan’s worst parts of himself. It’s a stylistic change that loosely connects and I’m okay with that. I prefer scratch as a more ominous presence rather than a goofy villian.
Scratch was always part of Alan. But the Dark Presence/Scratch was only officially birthed by Alan being stuck for too long in the Dark Place, making a part (or a version) of him go insane.
In American Nightmare, Scratch is personified as en Evil double of Alan, but from what we've seen in AW2, it seems like it was always inside of alan. Maybe the American Nightmare was just a way that Alan wrote the story and Scratch into another entity so that he could face that entity more directly, but he's essentially just facing his own mind. Or that's just him in another part of the loop (spiral)
In one of the dark place videis Alan says this "How do you run from an idea, from a story that's stuck inside your head." Maybe Alan did defeat scratch, but since the idea of the Dark presence, and the idea of "Scratch is Alan Wake" was still inside his head, the dark place manifested and essentially rendered both indestructible.
It kinda annoys me that this is headcannon and not something confirmed or denied by the story, but this is the idea I'll go with.
Didn’t expected you would covering this game so soon!!!
Somehow I expecting the Remedy Connected Universe would be clear up in CONTROL’s sequel, as the story appears more and more that the FBC is the center of its all.
He shouldn't have
@@silentj624why?
Control 2 hype
I think the FBC, for all it's resources and information, is still an organization that FEELS they are at the center or it all, but the vastness of reality, the entities that exist with parallel dimensions, etc is still WAY out of their depth. I can't wait to see what Jesse and Polaris do, but I like that the FBC was ultimately on the sidelines for this project. I love the idea of more Remedy games out there that don't even mention the FBC until games later when they are acknowledged. I'm terrified of the FBC getting treated as some paranormal avengers organization. I'd love to see ANOTHER organization like the FBC that have their own things going on as well.
@@devinkerr5474 Good point, I believe the ‘Monarch Solutions’ from ‘Quantum Break’ could be another organization that has the role to the multi-dimensional phenomenon as well.
I guess it was because of the licensing issue that Remedy has with other publishers of the previous games that prevent them from fully integrated every game story settings.
As someone who has a family history of paranoid schizophrenia, playing this game feels like a look into my future and it's genuinely horrifying.
I’m sorry Mr Slosh I’ll be here for you
Not to scare you further, but genuinely curious, will experiencing this be adding to the god-hope-not potential schizophrenia where you might wonder if you're in a reality like his?
Someone I know had it. Started burning electronics in the backyard. But they got medication and recovered quite well.
If consuming 40 Benadryls transports you to Silent Hill, being schizophrenic turns you into Alan Wake
@@milkgxngmost ppl don’t
This was a great video. No wonder it took Sam Lake 13 years . Not only did he tie in Control & Quatum Break in the Alan Wake universe with actual lore too connect the dots. Good writing . Kind of has the Christopher Nolan touch.
One more piece of supporting evidence for Door being Saga's father, Harry: when Saga asks Tor about her father, Tor says her father was "always thinking too many steps ahead."
When Breaker hands Saga the manuscript page in the Dark Place, it reveals that Door was aware of Alan Wake writing about him and allowed it so that it could be used at the right time. He stops Breaker from handing it to her early on in the story and takes him to the Dark Place so that he can meet Saga later in the story, helping her in that moment by providing the manuscript page which teaches her about her abilities.
That's thinking quite a few steps ahead. Coincidence?
This game is just Art. I hope more ppl buy it because it’s refreshing to have these types of in depth stories!
Nah i turned off and switched the game just in first 20mins playing… this game is boring
The story is really good. Game play is mediocre at best. I really tried to finish it and just gave up half way trough. Also, it's Epic only. The sales are not the best, I guess.
@rhinoman86 I played RE4 remake before this. And RE4 combat is the definition of 3rd person fun combat. AW2 didn't come even close to that. I love AW2 story and visual storytelling, but the underwhelming combat and long walking session made it way too boring. And I like slow paced games. For example, RDR2 and KCD are my favorite RPGs.
@@unclesam5733 agreed. Fortunately I wasn’t in it for the gameplay but I’d agree
@@rhinoman86what about the game stands out like you said that “wows you” to think RE should have thought of that?
You mention that Casey's memories of investigating the Cult were caused by Alan's writing, but Casey's recollection of the events appears to have been confirmed by that document in Control that was written years before this draft of Initiation was written.
Casey was investigating Alan well before this AWE took place, so while it's possible that the Cult wasn't a part of that, it doesn't feel conclusive enough to just write it off entirely yet.
There's a chance that the time bending nature of the Dark Place allowed for some trickery to occur, but I'm not entirely sure about that atm.
The dark place can for sure do things that like time wise. So I think it’s possible. Initiation the way I see it takes place during the whole 13 years while he was gone, before, and after all at once.
Mr. Door could possibly be Mr. Hatch. Lance Riddick was originally planned to play Mr. Door but was recasted due to his unfortunate passing.
It’s definitely intended to be Hatch but a)they can’t call him Hatch cause they don’t own Quantum Break and b) Lance unfortunately passed like you said.
Basically, it is Hatch, or another version of that character, we just have to pretend it isn’t for legal reasons.
He may have been recast due to health complications that led to his death, but he was in all likelihood still alive when the live action segments were shot. He only passed 8 months ago, which would be crazy late in the development process to start filming.
Nice, I've been waiting for this ever since the game released. I don't even play 99% of the games shown on this channel but rather just listen to you tell the story. Keep up the good work🔥
I feel the same. I don't really have the time for them either. I have time for these videos whether on my commute or before bed
I do the same. I enjoy listening to the story much more than playing. Also he's one of the best ones I've seen. I love this channel, it's definitely a favourite for me. Thank you GamingHarry! Looking forward to your future videos! 😊
Same! And he puts together things that are commonly missed so you get the entire story, not just the "main" one.
I’ll say it again. The HEAVY influence from Twin Peaks “The Return” in this sequel. Is wild man.
@@milkgxng don’t be a dick
I'm honestly thinking this will go down as an elevation of Alan's story in every single way, I ADORE the first game's story, and sadly, do not yet, have the hardware to play the sequel. But longplays and videos like these satiate the hunger for fulfillment. It honestly sounds like it'll be referenced at the benchmark of Meta fiction. And Alan being caught on a talkshow about a project he has no memories of working on is LITERALLY one of my personal nightmares.
It's great that the FBC are more involved in the campaign than i expected, given their confieldential and mysterious existence. However i do wish to have a reaally short snapshot of fayden cameo in the ending since this game doesn't really explain amything abt the frequent appearances of casper darling
i know right! i really want to know more about the FBC going “dark” i wonder what that meant
control spoilers: the prevailing theory is that the heavy exposure to the resonance from hedron caused caspar darling to…evolve/transform into a being on a higher dimension (which is basically confirmed by him being able to communicate with jesse via the hotline at the end of control) and-aside from the great easter egg of him being featured in alan wake 2-i think the reason he appears on the tv sets is because he’s a form of resonance now and connecting jesse to alan. similar to the way alan connected to jesse in the awe dlc.
Now the question is why is alan write a story for control's AWE expansion. Is it solely to remove hartman? Is it an another failed attempt of writing the initiation or return manuscript? How did he even know FBC in the first place?
@@kiwee4577 the awe dlc either heavily implies or states that alan may have written the fbc into existence; probably as one of the means of freeing himself from the dark place. also, one of his manuscript pages is in the panopticon and i’m hoping that remedy will fully develop that plot line.
and we still don’t know the full scope of what alan wrote during his first 13 years in the dark place, aside from initiation and return, because even he doesn’t remember it all. i’m excited to find out.
@@l0_0l if the next control or AW2 expansion features split gameplay between fayden, alan and saga. it'd be cool af
its crazy the sam lake naturally looks like a video game protagonist.
like even before they made him max payne
Tim also said Mr door was hit by lighting. Tor’s lighting as we found out tor’s hammer can summon lighting and tor admits that he did something to saga’s father that made freya (saga’s mother) cut ties with him and it would explain how saga has the same power to open doors and travel anywhere in the dark place unlike Allan
Well done harry figuring out the Zane parts. Truly the most mind bending moment of the game
So the Dark Presence as take seriously the quote from Tolkien "Evil cannot create anything, just corrupt what good has created"
Door and Hatch being the same person makes a lot of sense, just look at the names. Also Breaker and Joyce share a striking resemblance, also makes a lot of sense. There was also Night Springs reference on one of TVs in Quantum Break if I remember correctly.
Can’t wait for the Night Springs expansion in 2024. Lake house expansion will also be coming after that one as well. It’s interesting to note, just south of Nightingales murder scene. There’s a an FBC gate to the Lake house that has an intercom Saga can interact with. When interacting with it, you try to contact the FBC at the lake house, but static only comes from the other end! It’s amazing to see how well Remedy sets up their future content within each and every new release!
Tim(e) Breaker
@@pott3r good point, didn't even think of that
@@cradleofgoth I'm pretty sure Jack Joyce and Tim Breaker are the same person. Remedy wouldn't have used the same actor just for the laughs
@@pott3r Ya there is a reason they used the same actor lol.
I like how even if you havent played control, you immediately know there's something up with Ahti. Even if he isn't super involved in the plot you can tell he's something more
I felt so bad for Cynthia, she was just a sweet old lady who was trying to keep people safe.
I feel so bad for her as well.
She helped us on the 1st game.
I'm just glad she was able to be put to rest.@@rudydeclarisse
I feel bad for nightingale
@@tonyboyer1563yeah but he was a drunk asshole in the first game, he had good intentions though
Same. She just got way to tired to keep protecting the town. Rose is a great replacement for her
The only possible explanation to the story is that Sam Lake is an artistic genius and his vision for the RCU is his magnum opus. After beating AW2 i am looking forward to the DLCs and Control 2 as well. Remedy entertainment is a top tier game developer.
God tier
I wish Max Payne was also part of these stories. Would've been sick.
They are remaking the games from the ground up so I wouldn't be suprised if they tied it in with these as well.
@ishraquenoor He pretty much is. Sam Lake/Alex Cayse is Max Payne. Similiar issue as with Quantum Break. Max Payne is now owned by Rockstar. He is the same actor, same voice actor, wears the same leather jacket in NY, and he lives through the same twisted depressing detective shit. What if all of Alex Casey stories are just Max Payne stories? Maybe Max is just a Wakes book, or it's just a cool Easter egg.
@@unclesam5733 no I meant for future releases of Max Payne was included in storyline up yk.
Man. I love this game. It's been 10+ years since I last had so much fun with a game. Not really the gameplay, but the story, atmosphere, crafting theories and just the general weirdness of it all. I love it so much. It gave showed me a bit of the love I had for games back then again.
Edit: I gotta say though, the entire line of thought that "the cult created the monsters" throughout the game is a bit annoying to me. It's incredibly obvious right from the start, that this is not the case.
They KNOW that the ritual wasn't completed, yet a monster showed up. They KNOW that the ritual WAS completed with the other murders, yet no monster showed up. It's a simple 1+1=2 yet they decide 2*2=26.
The red headed woman mentioned on Tim's board could also be referencing Beth wilder from quantum break who shares the same actress with Jesse faden
Honestly if they made a book from this game, I'd actually read it.
Remedy knows how to create a headache. A headache you really want to figure out. Thank you for the time and effort you put into this. I'm loving the fact that they are tying all of their games into their own story.
A developer at the studio apparently said they're confident that fans aren't gonna figure out the whole picture of the RCU anytime soon, but they're very happy to have people keep on guessing. Really shows the planning work that's gone into this to make it so interconnected without just randomly stitching together narratives to keep players guessing.
Reality and Fiction merging together fits the " Its not a loop , its a spiral "quote like a glove . You literally can question everything and be right .
If the Oceanview Hotel is a preexisting bridge to other worlds. And the dark place was always a place of power under cauldron Lake then it makes Zane's actions quite suspicious - even before the dark precense started messing his life up. The qualities of the dimension where the dark presence resides, allow fiction and emotion to bend reality (like how your emotions might bend your dreams/nightmares) , its most strongly affected by art when it's inflenced in our reality. Zane wanted to start a commune of creatives at cauldron lake - this would essentially tap into their ability to augment reality with their art using the dark place as a catalyst. He also wanted to build an Oceanview hotel there (very sus naming coincidence), this would possibly establish a gateway into the real oceanview hotel crossroads dimension. With this in mind, it makes it sound like he bit off more than he could chew but wasn't some clueless artist when it came to the paranormal who got manipulated by forces he wasn't expecting, perhaps Zane is a Para criminal of sorts. Maybe Zane is the dark presence, a man who got trapped in a realm of thought after experimenting on how to get in and turned into a force of chaos, thats why Ahti calls Alan Tom - everytime Ahti meets alan he's still possessed by the dark presence. I think the first time Ahti meets alan, he says something like "he sees the darkness in alan, but also sees a little light".
(Side thought: the clicker is an object of power and has been imbued with the power of the dark place and alan is bonded to it. The FBC like to collect people like alan to become their directors (similar to jessie/dylan and polaris), after which point they usually bond with more objects of power (I.e. the service weapon, floppy disk). This suggest that if a director of the FBC ever bonded with the clicker they'd have the power to augment reality. Similar to what the ashtray OoP can do, where it can augment reality to create infinite mazes that have no space requirements.)
imagine if jesse bonded with the clicker… she’d be far more OP than she already is 💀💀💀
i have a very thin theory that tom/alan created the oceanview motel when he created the oceanview hotel since the dark place exists outside of time and the oceanview motel connects to other dimensions including the astral plane, the writer’s room, ahti’s “janitor’s closet” and more.
the dark place seems to be a metaphysical space, like the astral plane, not a place of power like the oldest house. and alan/tom seems to have the power to shape it to his conscious/subconscious.
when saga leaves her mind place in the dark place-through a door!-she’s in alan/tom’s dark place version of new york then uses seemingly the water in the fountain at the center of alan/tom’s dark place version of new york to travel to alan/tom in the writer’s room.
i don’t think that alan is bonded to the clicker because several other characters have used it successfully. the clicker’s different than the other oops because the oops in control bond jesse to the board through the oops, which means the board places limitations on access to abilities through oops. it confirms some of the theories that the board is essentially a parasite using the astral plane and fbc to further its own agenda and will eventually lead to a major conflict between jesse and the board.
I mean the Old Gods of Asgard still call Tom even after he got the dark presence removed so i think Alan and Tom are the same person, also would explain why they look the same no the question is if Tom trying to project himself out by creating Alan or if there is some other reason
Okay, I love how you formatted this. First you leaned into the horror, then the hope, and then the analysis.
People complain a lot about the name, even if you play as another character, the story still pivots around Alan Wake.
Saga is 'just' the primary point of view character, but the story doesn't truly revolve around her, it revolves around the impact that Allan's story has on her and her life.
Just a random 2 cents, I almost wonder if...
Zane is a character from the original Tom the poet's creation, Zane created Wake for himself, and it's really a long line past even that. The poet created by a singer, the singer created by a storyteller, etc. all the way back to the first person who was scared of the dark, made stories about that fear, and effectively gave the darkness an evil shape. All the world's a play, and we are merely actors in some grander thing. Could you imagine? entire realities created to form life, to create a chain of events through human history, all for architecting a character solidly founded in reality to change that reality. A quantum level of world building.
MAN, OUR BOY AHTI SHOWED UP!
I’ve been waiting for a breakdown video and this is more than what i could’ve wished for! Always love hearing people’s theories/analysis on Remedy’s Lore. Great job as always :)
Just rolled credits on Alan Wake 2 & while it did get a little messy at the end this game is nothing short of a 10/10 masterpiece. While it is the masterful sequel to AW1 its also a celebration of Remedy & how they write stories their characters and set the tone for what's ahead.
Taking bits and pieces from OG Max Payne 1 & 2 even the great and underappreciated Quantum Break and of course Control. Not only can i not wait for where Alan Wake goes from here but what insanity Control 2 will be.
where do people get the idea that this is masterpiece? it falls short in its story in multiple parts which clearly need DLC to explain. they gave us a 20 hour experience yet cant explain why nobody cared when 2 cops were killed in the basement, one goes missing and the only survivors walk out of the building without question. it literally happened in the first few hours and the pit falls dont stop there.
@@MrPlaylistManyou could argue a few answers to your question.
The town's people know about the Taken, the power the lake has, etc, so maybe they're just used to it? And/or they're just playing dumb because they don't trust Saga yet? And/or the horror story at that moment has literally only spread as far as the basement so that's why the cops upstairs aren't reacting?
I understand that waving off every issue as "it's just the fiction messing with reality" is a bit of a cop out but let's be honest, if you're a fan of Remedy then you know by now that you're not going to have everything answered, some elements are just up to your interpretation.
@@PlaidSuitPinstripeWorld I mean yeah it is a pretty big cop out, I've played most of remedy's titles and only started to see problems in Control. The Oldest House can get away with more because of what it is and it's rules aren't explained (assuming it has any). But the dark place isn't the oldest house so not following the rules set in the first game and giving it properties of Control just feels confused and convoluted. Also it gives them another reason to make more content which would be great if this story was more compelling than the first.
@@MrPlaylistMan they literally explain in the game that the townspeople know about the horrors of the place. You just didn't pay attention to it lol.
@@alezio299 the only people in town who seem very aware of the dark presence is those in the cult, rose and the Andersons. the cult was created to keep people away from the lake (which is where the dark presence lives). So wouldn't the dark presence being in the police station put people on even more high alert if they all knew about it considering they know what the dark presence can do.
Alan Wake is one of those franchises that truly utilizes the all-encompassing nature of video games. Video games are the MMA of media, so this game is beyond special for making all the elements tangible.
Like Tor and Odin, Ahti is also named after a Nordic god, but from Finnish pagan pantheon. God Ahti was god of waters, and Ahti does talk about water and it's powers quite a lot.
Isn't Ahti the name of the janitor in the FBC building in Control?
@@XcelesteXmagixXYes
@@XcelesteXmagixX It's the same guy/eldritch entity/deity(?) My theory is that he is in fact literally a janitor, cosmically: he's a being that cleans up "messes" like the hiss and dark presence. The FBC are useful allies/agents/tools for this, so the position of FBC director IS in fact that of a janitor's assistant. (Remember, his first interaction with Jesse involved him being certain she'd come to the Oldest House to apply for that job. He also references her assisting him when he gives her quests.)
Great analysis, I've enjoyed it immensely. Thanks for clarifying a lot of things. My mind got jumbled as the narrative changed between Alan and Saga. Alan's parts can be pretty confusing, and you can feel the torture of the loop. No wonder he stopped writing, it's pure madness. My head started to hurt and I had to take a break, but I enjoyed the musical part a lot, which is surprising since I don't even like musicals. When Saga was in the dark place trapped in her mind room and when you investigate the objects and see Stacey Marrow as her mentor/supervisor I was like leo di caprio pointing meme because I remembered your earlier video about investigating the Cauldron Lake Murders. Thanks again!
Wow! Complicated to say the least, but brilliantly executed explanation as always Harry! This is amazing!
it’s complicated and intriguing at the same time 😂
Time to listen to every Alan Wake 2 analysis I can find. Let's go!
A 2hr video? Yo let's go. Thank you for your continued hard work.
Just spent 43 hours playing this game and enjoying/hating every second of it. What an amazing experience. Might as well watch a couple more hours lol
how did you get to 40 hours? 2 playthroughs?
@MrPlaylistMan probably did the 100%, like getting all the cult stashes, lunch boxes, words etc.
Great video!
But one thing to note: I don't think, that the bit from Tims board about the redheaded woman connected to polyhedrons is necessarily about headron. I think it literally means the geometric structure known as a polyhedron. Jesse's polyhedron is indeed the containment unit of headron, but Beth's polyhedron is the countermeasure.
Holy crackles man! I was checking daily on when you would upload this!
Thanks a ton!
I feel it’s probable that scratch, Alan, and Tom are all the same people, but it’s like a reality spiral slowly moving and each level of progression all interact with each other, if that makes sense. They kind of loop and intermingle, affecting each of their realities. But there’s so much I missed in this game and it’s pretty convoluted. I didn’t tend to dig around for lore too much as I found the atmosphere so foul I just wanted to move on 💀 I also forgot all of Alan wake 1.
But Tom Zane is played by the same actor, they switch around, and people call Alan, Tom. It’s been stated that scratch is Alan, so it’s pretty fair to say that they’re the same people (at different parts of the spiral?
I also feel there’s heavy reference to Carl yung’s philosohy, with “shadow work” and such. Each version are of the same person with different parts of their psyche. The shadow work is clearwhen saga is in the dark place and is confronted with all her insecurities and fears, and she needs to break out by self affirmation and psychoanalysis. The dark place can be seen as the inner psyche and you have to work through your issues to escape to freedom. You can get caught in thought and behavioural loops which is represented literally. Saga is the most rational and level headed meaning she can navigate with more ease.
Or maybe I’m chatting absolute nonsense. Decent video tho, thanks for the effort and insight !
I think you're on to something! I thought it was definitely inspired by that as well just turned into media, brilliantly.
I just love lore channels that do the in-depth investigation to the games they love; I appreciate the summary synopsis done here for Alan Wake 2.
Casey being a detective is not coincidental. Alan saw Casey's life through his powers (he thought of them as inspiration) and wrote it into his books.
If you guys think about it, at the end of Quantum Break, Jack showed symptoms of being a shifter and shifters are known for existing in each parallel timeline at once and that explains why tim breaker remembers another version of him in a different timeline because he’s been split from his original counterpart: jack joyce. If we all think about it too, the same case could be for mr door, he could just be another version of mr hatch from quantum break because mr hatch is a shifter himself
This game was amazing. Just finished it about an hour ago. Got platinum first play through! Thanks for this lore and order, Harry. Love your content
Casual 2.5 hour video drop, instant watch from me
After an amazing time with Alan wake 2 I decided to play control over again. I’m loving this universe they’re building!
The analysis after the summary (from about 1:38:24) was really helpful because of the information from other Remedy properties that you included (which I, as a non-game-player, needed for context).
Excellent. The last part of this does exactly what I wanted and adressed all the characters with power calling Wake, Tom. I think you're exactly right. Wake and Scratch isn't actually real. Thomas Zane has written the whole story. One note though, in the video you said you think he wrote it so he's a film maker, that's why Cynthia remembers him as a poet. I'm quite sure it's the other way around. Remember, his first movie was "Tom the poet". This movie is the whole story of "The poet who lost his wife in the lake who then needed to cut out her heart and write them both out of existence." Cynthia was a character in that story, etc. But that also means that Tom must have created the dark presence and the lake and the cabin for the purposes of that movie (story). So then nothing is real, Initiation, Return, the FBC and the events of Control, they are all just stories set in the universe Thomas created in "Tom the poet" and none of it is manifested in "the real world" because there is no lake and dark presence to make the stories come true in the "real world", all those things first appeared in Tom's first movie (the only movie the world ever saw before he disappeard) "Tom the poet". So basically, the way I see it, Remedy has written a story, where a movie maker Thomas Zane wrote a movie plot in the 70's depicting himself as a diver and a poet, in this movie the film maker creates bright falls, the dark presence, the bright presence, the lake, Cynthia the adoring fan, all of it. Alan wake (another embodyment of Thomas, this time a writer, not a poet), Casey, the FBC, all their stories are either stories inside that movie or sequals set in the same universe. The filemaker also wrote himself in again, but this time not as a dive suit wearing poet, but as the film maker he really is. We're basically just in Zane's mind through all these games exploring his creative mind and all it's artistic aspects.
Holy hell! I thought I understood this game/series/universe but you just made all the loose pieces in my head finally fit together. This is a phenomenal video. I look forward to playing whatever Remedy puts out next and of course, the two DLCs promised for Alan Wake 2. Upon finishing, I will be coming here, to you, for you to make it all fit all over again. Seriously, great work and thank you.
sam lake is making a video game with thomas zane making a film with alan wake writing a book to escape the dark place. This is the dark place and sam lake is trying to escape
Great job Harry! Always super engaging and in depth
My small comment here: A wild guess or theory.
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Alan was also a sort of seer before Brigt falls too, probably. That's why he got a glips of Casey's life all the time until he killed him in the books.
"I know who I am. I'm the dude writin' the dude, disguised as another dude!"
-Alan Wake
I so excited for the upcoming DLC and Control 2, it’s been such a great mystery to unravel and can’t wait to see what is next after all known projects!
You state that Sarah Breaker joined the FBI, but the dialogue specifically said “She joined the feds”. It’s more than likely she joined the FBC like her father, not the FBI
Has anyone noticed that by the end of the events of the game, pretty much all of the characters ended up in the dark place?
Saga and Alex Casey are seemingly left there, Alan and Tom (who more and more appear to be one and the same) are there, Tor and Odin went into the lake, Mr. Door is there, Tim Breaker got transported into the dark place, Alice returned there, even Rose got inside, Ahti is everywhere. Could mean a lot for the continuation.
Yes the only character to have a role in the game to be left in the "real world" is the FBC agent .
Hope everyone enjoys Alan Wake 2 😊
Did you mean everyone?
@@spiritupgrades ah yes, my apologies! Thanks for letting me know on my error 🙂
@@stitchfan93 Wait, what happened to the heart?
@@spiritupgrades when you edited a comment , the heart is removed
@@lolxd244 oof
Like a spider's web everything is connected but unlike the web centre keeps shifting and you never know what is at the centre. AW1 and Control are interconnected and chances are there is a third game that will basically expand further the whole universe... lets see what Remedy do nest. Thank you for this Lore and Order episode it was an absolute gem.
It's not a Loop, it's an Uzumaki... (Do As Infinity - Raven ending soundtrack)
I love how this game isn't just a sequel to Alan Wake, but also Control. Makes the Remedy Connected Universe feel real
next max payne
it happens at the same time as the event of Jesse taking over the role as a director I think. As the note suggests that agent Estevez left the Bureau to Bright Falls and the FBC went dark
These videos are amazing! You have an amazing voice for this and your explanations make these stories so much clearer 👌
Little detail about Barbara Jagger. To my russian ears her name saounds exactly "baba yaga", who is - in russian folklore - is a powerful evil witch
that's a nice catch.
Ive re-listened to so many of gaming harry videos because this mans voice is so soothing 😂
I appreciate you bro
You. Are a champion for this INCREDIBLY in-depth deep dive. Hope to see you playing some good walkthroughs on your second channel soon!
2 and a half hours 😮
Genuinly excited for this one !
So the musical level and all of the talk show stuff happens because Tor and Odin walked into the lake to enter the Dark Place, and came to an agreement with Mr Door right?
Sam Lake is such a fantastic writer and I'm so happy he's chosen video games as his medium.
Hey, you missed one of the Tim Breaker rooms! The whiteboard is incomplete, there's two more texts to read.
I had an idea while watching this video. Clearly there is something going on with the Tom Zane/ Alan Wake thing. What if when Tom Zane wrote himself out of existence he is still sentient but has no body. So he took the closet one he could and he has been taking Alan's form which is why he looks like him. He has been altering the story in the background to make it possible. This is most likely entirely off base as Tor, Odin and Ahti all know Alan as Tom and they seem immune to the horror story. It could be another interesting explanation for what is going on. Though I can also see Wake being a creation of Zane.
You are a complete genius to be able to break this down to a digestible piece of content, especially the last 15 minutes hoollllyyyy😅
A 2 hour long vid😭. And it’s not even my birthday yet. Thank you so much
Alan Wake 1 : First encounter with Dark Place and Dark Presence
Alan Wake 2 : Defeat Dark Presence, still stuck in Dark Place
Alan Wake 3 : Defeat Light Presence ? End of Alan Wake ?
Goddammit harry I had things to do, and you just had to release a full feature film for me to watch immediately! Thanks 😤😮💨
This has probably been said, but “Scratch’s” true form looks exactly like an Astral Spike from Control.
I think it's important to think about how Alan's timeline in the game might take place after the events of Saga for the sole reason that we see The Old Gods of Asgard in the Dark Place. Unless they are just a weird, dark manifestation of the band (considering the guitarist is here but he's dead in the real world) or an overlooked detail by Remedy. But if the Dark Place doesn't follow the logic of space or time, then the "loop" or "spiral" that the Alan we play could be the one that woke back up in the Dark Place in the post credit scene. Honestly, this story is insanely confusing (in a good way lol) and I cannot wait for the DLCs to shed some more light on things. Hopefully we can get an idea of what happens with Wake from them or if they make another Control title. I can't wait to see the direction the devs take this amazing franchise in the coming years. Here's hoping we get some lore on everyone's favorite janitor! Näkemiin!
I'm glad to see you wearing gloves when handling evidence... 😅 Unlike some FBI people I know
Just got done beating AW 2 yesterday, loved!
I had a though thought.
Remember when Alan says it's not a loop it's a spiral?
Well doesn't Jesse from Control have that entity in her, remember when she brings it up or talks to it shows a "spiral" thingy?
I'm thinking there connected not quite sure but I feel like that's the dark presence maybe.
I like how people are trying to explain Alan Wake 2... just to find out it's like taking a course in String Theory LOL
I was legit about to look up what "Sting Theory" was 😆
Alan Wake after its first game became a series that's more enjoyable in "explain" videos than actually playing them.
thank for the vid for some reason i cant get my self to watch someone playthrough of aw2 or play it , great work as usual
I heard there's been an update to Outlast Trials. I'd love to see you play it on your second channel and ofcourse if there's new lore a video on here too would be sick! Your content is great 👍🏻 Thanks for reading.
Let’s play coming shortly on GH2.0
@@GamingHarryYT Looking forward to it, cheers!
I’ve been waiting for this since the game released!!!
Having all the games connected in ways is amazing
I am pretty sure Alan is just Zane so many loops removed that he morphed into perceiving himself as a different person.
Amazing video! I was able to find out a lot of things I missed during my first play through and understand the story way better, thank you so much for the hard work you put in Harry
I actually have a theory that the entire storyline for the Alan Wake games is really meant to be a metaphorical extension of the creative thought process going on in Thomas Zane's head and how his creative writing abilities are hindered possibly by personal circumstances in his life that have caused writer's block and/or lack of a desired successful career as a filmmaker and poet. Here's my reasoning:
1) The game basically confirms that Alan Wake IS Thomas Zane and that Mr. Scratch IS effectively both of them but possessed by the Dark Presence. I would theorize that the Dark Presence is meant to be a manifestation of Zane's sense of trauma and despair due to changing life circumstances, most likely Barbara dying and/or their relationship turning sour. This could have made him want to start over and/or re-imagine himself as someone else to deal with his trauma, hence Alan Wake
2) There are 2 women shown to have had some kind of relationship with Thomas Zane: Barbara Jagger and Cynthia Weaver, the latter of whom was jealous of Barbara b/c Thomas Zane went with her instead of Cynthia. The fact that the clicker which Wake/Zane claims to need in order to "get out of the Dark Place" is part of Cynthia's angel light fixture, could mean that she in some ways had what Zane needed in some way in order to get past his mental fog, but that he ignored or chose not to go with her despite this. However it's clear that the fact that she loved and cared about him seemed to inspire him in some way, judging by the importance he placed on the clicker and that it came from her
3) In regards to Alice Wake being Alan a.k.a. Thomas Zane's "muse," she herself is either the woman in the real world who Zane chose to be with, or is possibly an idealized version of Cynthia or the role Cynthia has seemingly played more indirectly in Zane's life. The fact that Barabara and Cynthia both appear as relatively middle-aged while Alice appears young could mean that she's different in some way. It's clear that Alan Wake himself is meant to be a younger and potentially more idealized version of Thomas Zane that he wrote of himself and given that Alice exists as Alan Wake's lover, she too may be a just an idealized creation by Thomas Zane of the ideal lover who he longs for or feels he needs as a "muse" for inspiration.
4) The fact that Zane seems to see both Alan Wake and Mr. Scratch as necessary for the story seems to indicate that Alan is like Zane's "rational" side while Mr. Scratch is the base-nature, unhinged, irrational aspect of Zane that embodies the rage and frustration that Zane feels in his life. Zane ultimately seems to believe that he needs **both** these sides of himself, in moderation, in order to get through his mental fog and come out stronger and this seemingly succeeds since Mr. Scratch's work ultimately does what it was intended to do with his writing: help Zane/Alan push through
Loved this game. It’s between this and Armored Core 6 for my personal GOTY
I'm absolutely going to listen to this tonight while I paint something. This is going to be a good one.
Thank you so much. This is a game were a 20 minute video would not explain the plot. I saw you 2 hour video and said i respected you because it would be long enough to do it justice.