Sheesh.... amazing how I can go from super excited watching the official trailer to completely disillusioned after watching this. Having said that, MMORPGs with intricate building aspects generally won't be successful with the current ADHD generation of gamers. There should be a much easier way to get these structures in place so players can focus on conflict and politics.
@@henrythegreatamerican8136 Sure, but what conflict and what politics? Both should emerge naturally and organically through PVE - but there is no PVE, so nothing emerges. Conflict, for example, would emerge from Territory Warfare, where certain locations on planets have certain advantages, be it energy, ore, strategic location etc. - but there is nothing of the sort. Politics would then emerge as a natural consequence of the above. Since the first premise is missing, then the whole structure collapses, and what is left is a boring copy&paste sandbox with rudimentary mechanics, no risk, no reward and no depth.
that's describing almost all building games, dyson sphere program, space engineers, DU etc. It applies to even 'crafting' in other games, such as in MMORPGS. Like in FFXIV there are so many crafter classes and all of them are so lifeless and boring, even a simple automated bot can do them and the reward is nothing but an item which can earn you some ingame currency and rinse and repeat. Now I get it that more money means more stuff to do, but if money is the goal then it makes perfect sense to use a bot to do the work, unless you're getting something else from the process, like fun, but I heavily doubt people who say they have fun mindlessly clicking the same buttons really get what fun means. My point being, doing the same task again and again, as in 'grinding', can be entirely delegated to automating scripts/programs/bots etc. and if you aren't even having fun doing them then there's 0 point in not going automated. All building and crafting games/features, hence, have no real reason to be played.
@@cryonim In games like DSP and Factorio, the actual construction portion is (or should be) abstracted away, because the real game is the puzzle solving, not the construction of the base itself. Space engineers' industry system is too simple for meaningful engagement in that manner. Once you build your refinery and whatnot, why keep playing? Sorry I can't give a better response, but I forgot what my original comment was really referring to, exactly.
@@johiahdoesstuff1614 Space engineers is definitely worth playing - the gratification comes from realising your creations into the digital landscape, with complex conveyor systems, or pitting your creations against others, and creating towering factories to operate out of. The motivation to play comes from the same place as those who play Minecraft, or build with Lego; there is no 'reward', per say - the reward is the process of building itself.
I recall asking and pushing for basic survival during alpha, saying it would be great to add foodstuff to these markets and give another element to the economy, give a reason to build near water, add value to fertile land, add more logistical reasons for space travel....and received a ton of pushback, not from the devs, but from the carebear community. Those few loud-mouths that just want to make pretty stuffs without having to take 2 seconds to push a button and consume something every hour or 6. Really tragic. You're absolutely right though, that game is on it's way to shutting down the servers unless they get some risk/reward in there. And what ever happened to FPS-PVP???
If one or two of the planets were removed that could free up some space of the server , so they can a crucial elements like FPS gameplay . I don't think those carebear people know that there are plenty of better modeling software like blender (free). They fail to understanding that in single server games everyone is connected , the pvp world is not different from the safe zone world . If the safe zone is a way more viable option to mine , no one will risk going into pvp zone . Nobody wants to lose , but you can't have a game without losers . Most people won't believe this , but it is losing that makes winning matter to human .
There is a lot of fun to be had. I don't know if the devs put this one back on the right track, it was pretty close to dead last time I hopped on, months ago, which is just tragic for a game with this much potential.
Totally agree. When I first played DU at the start of the beta, it was an incredibly freeing and innovative experience. Not having played any MMOs, this really felt like an incredible evolution to gaming. And on paper, the concept of player driven design and economies are pretty brilliant. I do hope DU survives, maybe goes free to play and injects some fresh ideas and like you said: Risk/Reward. Permadeath would be interesting.
I was playing this game in the open beta and first it was fun. Achieving spaceflight was a good thing, but from there the game was pretty much an empty void. Sad! Even without "survival" mechanics, the game should provide some kind of challenges, different environments, radiation, temperatures, atmospheric pressure...whatever. But there was none of it because it is not a physic simulation. Having some more advanced spaceflight mechanics like Kerbal Space Program would've be awesome.
The first part was actually just minecraft. No structure rules, no physics. And yet minecraft still last longer. Maybe because of the freedom or survival instincts.
I would say that survival mechanics are actually what makes Minecraft tick, and what separates it from all those other sandboxes that failed (or nearly did) once their players discovered how empty the games felt. Survival is what creates the risk-reward duality, what motivates the player to meaningfully engage with the building, exploring and combat mechanics, and what gives gameplay a kind of purpose. You are presented with a challenge that taps into one of our deepest psychological drives: the urge to survive, thrive and ultimately transform the hostile wilderness in a hospitable place. Survival mode is thus functional. Creative mode, for contrast, is there just for the aesthetics of function.
But Minecraft has bosses and different ores at deeper levels. If Minecraft had all ores at the ground level, no bosses, no real reason to go anywhere to explore, no survival aspects or challenges and no mod support. You think it would still be the Minecraft it is today?
I was obsessed with this game during my freshman year of high school (now graduated) and *payed to join the beta as soon as it launched, even though my computer couldn't handle it at all. I started my own space pirate organization (which ultimately fell through) and eventually teamed up with some mercenaries called Vanguard and later joined the Dark Star Imperium cause I was super fuckin edgy. I had so much fun coming up with really cool and unique ship ideas and was so excited to play this. So tbh like you, it really hurts that this is what it is now and seeing all my hopes for this game have turned to ashes in my mouth. I really hope that Novaquark reverses course and decides to fix the game, even if it requires completely redoing the framework and like you said, adding some reward or reason to rebuild civilization. No Mans Sky and now even Cyberpunk (to an extent) have managed to make a comeback and I hope DU can do the same. [Also, its really odd that they're actually charging people to play it in its current state, that doesn't give me hope.]
Oh no no no, good sir/madam. Do you really think that Novaquark will redo framework or add major mechanics or fixes at this stage of development? So close to an apparent release? Please be sensible my good gentleman/lady. No Mans Sky and Cyberpunk *could* do all of those things and more post-launch because they were massive financial successes (failures sure--because everyone hated it, but still doesn't change the fact that they sold a lot of copies, due of course to massive marketing campaigns) This game on the other hand has not sold all that well hence why they are charging people to play in its current state. The ship is sinking so you might as well wring it for every last penny it has to at least attempt to cover those development costs incurred. It's sad, indeed. I had hopes for this project but at some point, you just need to be realistic.
It really is a bummer. I enjoyed my time playing this game, but the whole idea of losing all the time-based skill points with the wipe, in addition to the increase in monthly subscription price is completely absurd.
@@jamesparks3968 Yo, they did give many many months of free play to those who backed. If you backed you should have gotten at least 1 DAC, which is a month of game time that you manually added to your game time through the site. I got 3 of them for my 60$ package. So what you are saying is completely false, and miss information.
I 100% agree on the Survival Mechanics. As for the time-based skill system.. it's great because you CAN'T LEARN EVERYTHING because you are time-capped. The best skills are only attainable for specialists. Sure people can be jacks of all trades, but not masters. This is small-group friendly. Not everyone wants to be in a huge guild. But survival mechanics is a must, and needs to be done ASAP.
I think this is truly the best way to explain what happened to this game. There's no consequences. But a note on the lighting and the cartoony nebula. This is exactly what Elite Dangerous got rid of and people had a fit and swore it (space that is) was too dark. Thanks for appreciating actual dark and expansive looking space. And yes many people fail to understand labor and economy in a game like this. The got mad when they tried to fix this and stopped along you to be able to just craft everything in the game within weeks and not need anyone. They did the same in Starbase. Folks could not understand the purpose of that skill system the released at the last minute. Was it perfect no but it made sense to me.
I can't help but feel that if these concepts where implemented in even a very basic way. This game would become very popular. Sadly that requires work and most developers would rather copy-paste a world and move on to the next project. My biggest complaint about MMO's is the lack of any truly random event. The resources, npcs dungeons, etc. are always in the same place and if removed just reappear after a predetermined time span. Just once id like to see a living open world. Where changes have meaning. Nothing worse then seeing the same encounter respawn every 15mins etc.
Your video kept me away, but a friend asked me to give it a try and I am loving it. It has made huge progress and I look forward to the future! Pvp has gotten much better. But that all being said your points are still valid and I agree with almost all of them. I wish the skybox would be fixed.
You bring up some valid points, but not every game needs to be a survival game. If the game is about creating a civilisation, the game should be about the players, but for that to be immersive, you would need RPG mechanics which the game does not contain. The sad thing about this games develompent is that it used to be way better in the early development stages, some core features have been removed to provide performance for the multiplayer experience, in turn making other features in the game like industry and mining less fun, turning it into a boring grind.
I totally forgot about this game. Hard to believe this is ≈ 7 years in development. I should point everyone who complains about Star Citizen's development to this video. Lol
Dual Universe didn't fail due to the lack of risk and reward. It failed due to a developer who had zero understand of game development. They rush the game out of alpha stage before all the game feature were in and pushed it into beta. During beta they added more game features and still didn't have the PVP aspect worked out yet. Then one of the DEVS made a bad mistake which lead to a Market to be pull apart by some players and the developer handled that entire situation so poorly it almost killed the game while the developer whined like a baby over it. Then the developer releases some patches caused even more problem with its player base which lead to more leaving the game. So in concluding risk vs reward is not the reason why this game failed. It was NQ screwed up development from the start and what they should have been up front and honest to their backers apologizing to them as oppose to trying to keep it all in the dark and hiding their fails.
Boy, i was obsessed with this game years ago. This game could have been a mixture of Eve Online and Space Engineers. But i couldn't believe that studio would be successful making a good game. An sadly they aren't. The first videos of the game were fantastic. The longer they developed the game the more concerned i became. My dream was a game like Space Engineers but better, bigger, more purpose, more content and more players on a single server. But its lacking everything.
I stopped playing 12/20/2020 and never went back. This guy is correct and it's sad. I had a lot of time invested in that game but felt it went in a strange direction and I decided to leave it all behind. I see how little it's changed, and nothing makes me want to pick it up and pay the subscription.
"What is the purpose of building?" Is now the first question I ask when looking at a building/ survival game. I was a silver founder for DU and I don't think any other game has disappointed me more because of what it could have been. I've never seen a company work so hard to pry failure from the jaws of success as Novaquark.
This looks like a cool game, you make excellent points, and I want to thank you for putting your time and energy into this game! I haven't played it but I want to see a world where this kind of game is more common and better developed!
It really needed some simple mechanics like food and water and inebriants. I SO want to make a space-brewery, or open up a Milliways lol. But alas... Also having aliens would've been a nice touch. Just random encounters that you come across, or on rare occasions they just rip apart some of the outlying planets until their assault is beaten back.
I just want a space game like Ark Survival but more expansive, economy based, and less toxic but still very risk-reward based like he says in this video. Is that really so hard?
I largely agree with you. The risk and reward is seriously lacking here, especially when it comes to how death is treated. The one place I might disagree is introducing generic survival mechanics specifically. I think having something like permadeath could be a sharp enough risk factor to facilitate caution and caring about what happens. Having to manage your hunger and thirst would get tedious very quickly, as it often does in other survival games. I could be wrong on this and at a base level it certainly needs more risk planet side in general. Just not sure meter monitoring is it, unless it can be fully automated.
I have never heard of this game until it popped up on my Google feed this morning. I was somewhat suprised that this game is being released in September 2022 in its current condition. It doesn't look much different than the footage in your video. 8 years of development, 2 years of beta and this is what investors are given? I invested in a Kickstarter for a game once. It turned out to to be a major disappointment. The developers collected far above their goal, then continued to solicit donations via their website after the Kickstarter closed. Then approximately a year later after some "nothing" level additions to their lag pile, one of the owners posted a photo of his new Porsche on his Facebook says "Thank you to all of the investors. Of course as you probably well guessed, his page erupted with angry players and he removed the post. That's the last time I would be foolish enough to give developers money to do nothing. I feel your pain and I understand your frustration. You invested money, time and feedback for a number of years only to get a painfully substandard game in its graphics and game mechanics.
it has changed quite a bit. but ya I understand. I don't do kickstarters anymore. I am always left feeling used. from issues getting ur rewards...even digital versions. to games well above goals and still turn out trash. only to see pictures of new homes and cars like u said. pass
tbh star citizen has this same issue massive open beautiful world no real gameplay just a bunch of tech demos this game at least functions but still lacks focus
It's a dream. The idea we can have a game, like a persistent universe where people create and build a community themselves. Sounds amazing in theory. But this dream will only be realized by a completely different species in some other far away universe. We're human, and human beings aren't capable of doing anything but completely fucking up a dream like that.
Totally agree with this video. I often say to my org...why are we playing this? It lacks any reason. I build lots of ships and sell them...but the only reason people buy them really is because they like them..I have ships sat on my pad waiting for a reason to use them. DU is a massive missed opportunity. It really needs PVE. NQ simply didn't have the money and resources to make this game a reality. It's quite sad because I love the idea and loved building the ships.
Completely agree with all the points you made in the video and brought them up myself a couple times in-game. It's a shame they focused so much on building/sculpting that they just forgot to implement any real game mechanics. All "games" can be boiled down to simply a set of challenges/goals that must be achieved within a defined set of rules... there's just none of that in Dual Universe. There's no drive or reason to do anything. Even something as simple as a need to eat food would give all kinds of reasons/motivations to explore and build stuff (e.g. making a house to store food, or a tavern/pub to serve food at). It's like the developers just don't understand what has motivated people to actually build civilizations for real, which has always been about survival and making survival easier. Isn't that like common sense? We don't build houses just for the hell of it lol we build houses to store food, to keep our possessions safe, to use the bathroom in peace, to cook in, to sleep without worry of being eaten by predators, etc. How could they expect anyone to want to build houses and cities for... reasons? Just because we can? Seriously... it's just laughable.
I played this game for a very long time until one day, I literally woke up and asked myself the same question. "Why?" Why am I doing any of this? I logged in, looked at everything I had and just logged back out. I haven't touched it since sadly. It was fun'ISH, but I Had no reason to anything and just digging holes to get resource numbers to sell things to collect more numbers. eh
i feel like the arguing was somewhat incomplete. like the points where valid options but sounded like there where no exception. just some nitpicking and probably because of the many times you already made these points and where tired of repeating them again. but i generally agree. the ideas you brought forward would truly catapult the quality up by several orders of magnitude, even if they ae just some of a few options. would you mind to have a longer conversation about the subject at some point? im a game dev possibly about to go indie and might try to create a (much) smaller version of the game DU could have become as my first project. and its like to just bounce some ideas with others that actually play this genre and have some actual basic grasp of game dev
Thank you for the comment. Yes, you are right: the reason I didn't go into details is precisely because I have done it many times in many hours long videos. Regarding ideas bouncing, I would have to get back to you on that at some point when time permits.
This game had a lot of activity until they killed the economy with the schematic update. I stopped playing when my entire factory lines needed $100k blueprints to manufacturer screws. They focused on the wrong things to develop. Manufacturing and selling items was THE ONLY THING TO DO and they made that harder
Nice video! My guess on some things like the lighting and physics is: They started building their dream game and had to realize, how complicated it is to build an engine, which can synchronize all these elements AND complex physics and realistic lighting etc in a MULTIPLAYER ENVIRONMENT. That's why e.g. No Man's Sky had no multiplayer at all at release. And besides that, it was build with a very basic and arcade mechanic and lighting. Nothing in the code regarding a complex physics simulation like e.g. MS Flight Simulator 2020 or Star Citizen. That's also why Star Citizen takes so long. Because they want to have all those realistic features in the engine for Squadron 42 but also have them synchronized for every player in the multiplayer universe, which on todays hardware and server technology is nearly impossible. No "normal thinking" game company would start to do it or would have the ressources and time to do so.
Yes the companies in question would also need dragon hoard mountain loads of gold coins treasure in order to achieve those complex mechanics and code calculations like Chris Roberts funding or the financial success of No Man's Sky which allowed them to expand their game company and mold NMS into the great game it is today. Novaquark on the other hand, does not have millions in the bank to fall back on so they cannot afford the time nor resources to implement those changes. All that's left is simply just release the game as is and hope to salvage a profit.
Hey man, have to agree with you. It's kinda sad to see the whole situation with DU. I'm still holding onto the hope that DU gets better eventually, but it's honestly not looking up. Thanks for the vid!
Hey lad, I enjoyed watching your building videos - and yes, I would also like for DU to actually get better, but like you I have almost completely lost hope ...
Yeah every month or so I see the icon and have a moment of silence while I decide whether to finally uninstall and be done with it or hold out a little longer. Each time, there is less reason to hold out.
Yes, I can. That's why you should not make silly mistakes. Also, you would probably notice the "mistake" early on if the game was done right, because it would show you the structural strength of materials and shapes you are trying to build BEFORE you build them, just like some other MMOs do, like this: th-cam.com/video/Ba-H0Porm1M/w-d-xo.html
@@sHuRuLuNi I get that. A few games do this, but it's not always fun in my opinion. It's okay for a small house like in Valheim with a nice and easy snapping system. Conan Online has something similar and it frustrated the heck out of me. The way things are actually built in DU also do not lend itself to this either. Like where do you draw the line? If I want to make a small voxel stair case, arched doorway, or piece of furniture, do I need it to be structurally sound? I get that that it's not the most addictive game on the planet, but these things it does do right that no other games I know of do, are astounding IMO =)
I love the idea of a large immersive space game. In 2014 I started looking for a PC game that would fulfill this, and I remember being somewhat excited about Dual Universe. Thought No Mans Sky looked awesome too. I was willing to wait 5 or 10 years if I saw something really worth investing in. Landed on Star Citizen and backed in 2016, glad I did. It's not there yet, but like I said I'm willing to wait. If it doesn't work out, I'll live. (I honestly believe it will).
Yeah ... me too, also still waiting .... I just wanted a game like you, immersive, with real space, with many possibilities for exploration, things to discover, mysteries, ...
I called it an expensive alpha experience.. I had lots of fun building ships, testing them and gathering material on other planets.. I've also met nice people, but I could do that in SE as well.. with a lot less headache, and money.. It's very sad to see what happened to Dual Universe since they went into Beta.. it'll drop more and more playernumbers because, like you said, there's nothing to do on a long term.. PVP is atrociously bad and let's not talk about industries.
I actually saw that coming from the day they revealed their plans. It isn't as easy to make a good game as a specialist for robotics and AI might think it is. Now, saying that... Space engineers and Empyrion Galactic Survival might be what you wish for in terms of survival and building. Its just not that those are MMOs. They pretty much show that full scale player build constructs, lighting and performance do not get together very well.
I backed DU a long time ago and haven’t touched it for a while (over a year) I was hoping to see a bunch of work and changes done to the world. Sadly after looking at some videos on yt it seems to just be in the same state it was and isn’t moving forward in any meaningful way.
100% agreed. I was hoping for even a little smidge of PvE content since I played this last year but stopped because it was pointless. Maybe a series of Friendly/Neutral/Hostile NPC factions that you could trade with/fight with or against. Raid a hostile NPC HQ, destroy their little fighters, boss battles with bigger ships, salvage all the wrecks for rare ship parts/weapons, collect bounties on particularly dangerous Factions, fight other corporations/players in PvP over the rewards, etc. Really hoping NQ sees your video and takes even a little of it to heart. Great video!
bought this game the day it went into open beta. spent a solid 500 hours in it with a small group of IRL friends and a few that play games with us from the internet. We all stopped playing with in a week or two of each other. We got to Jago, built up a nice factory, was only 8 or so tiles away from our local market which we ended up controlling the prices for near the end of our play. We had several billion quanta between the group. Almost everything was automated to the point where we were only mining and not building anymore. Anything we wanted was available in storage.. We had 3 capital ships, dozens of carriers for off world mining, dozens of warp ships for general travel to hit off world markets... it just got boring after the 350-400 hour mark. The pvp is absolutely terrible. There is zero player interaction outside of your own group of players. The lag was insane at times. It was all around just a bad game once you got a small factory up and going. We went back to Space Engineers. We are still waiting for a cosmic sandbox mmo. I just wish we could have built anything we wanted with in our own tiles. instead its just a big static box...
Ye, I loved this game till they removed hand mining and/or ore in the ground. Then the lack of anything other than building. Had game since Kickstarter Gold sub haven't played since the markets was redone.
Bad start. I don't think physics is the best example or necessary as a risk reward system. Look at minecraft. Adding things like that would make building take longer and be more restrictive to creativity. The building in DU is extraordinary. There is nothing anywhere close to what they've done here. Sadly, that is the only thing DU does well. A master of one you could say. I agree with you on basically everything else. Except the skybox. I'm fine with what they have or the black emptiness. And the Sun. Would be nice, but I'd rather them spend there time on content. Risk and reward. Game loops. It is bad, soulless and empty. Shallow existence.
@@mikewhitaker2880 ...but you can't just sit there, eventually you have to eat; you need fresh water to drink; you have weather to overcome; oxygen to breathe; temperature to dress for. And you need a way to accumulate these things. An entire society is built around easing those burdens. Don't defend bad game design.
Well.. no. Minecraft is good, but it’s pixels on a screen. A more serious game like dual universe would have physics by default. Maybe they could add a mechanic to add floating
Such good points. My group was like many and just staying for the sake of playing with eachother but as time goes on, it's as if the devs are trying to lose players. Installing star citizen as I type this
oooooh boy. ummm long time sc backer here. do not i repeat do not expect smooth gameplay. its a buggy and janky mess and will continue to be so until they figure out server meshing. but if you are down for that then the game has some really amazing play when its good.
You 100% pegged dual universe. It's sad that most people don't understand this they're so sucked into the game as it is they don't realize why the game can't retain new players and can't keep people from getting bored and uninterested
I like how you don't mention once the fact that territory warfare, gas mining or, like every other gameplay mechanic CONFIRMED to be coming out in the near future that completely overhauls the 'risk and reward' system you mentioned missing is not mentioned once in your argument. Asteroid mining completely overhauled mining resources, having a massive reward but also giving a huge risk of being pirated. Call it good or bad, you cannot deny that it is risk and reward, textbook definition. You said in your reddit post that the game is pretty much an alpha being labelled as a beta, and I agree. That means that massive gameplay changes like these can come out, can't they? You also seem to have a heavy emphasis on there needing to be survival elements in this game to be good, but I could not agree less. Survival games are a bloated genre which do nothing but give you busy work to do, just look in no mans sky's case. running out of life support just means you have to stop what you're doing just to tediously pick up some oxygen plants for a minute or so, I do not see how the same wouldn't happen to DU too. DU is simply not an ultra realistic survival game with realistic physics, PvE interactions, farming, and ancient civilisations with rare loot which changes the development of the ENTIRE GAME, stop expecting that from a small indie dev team. The fact that you backed a significant amount of money into this game expecting this, even though it wasn't mentioned once by NQ, just makes me feel like you are trying to find nothing but an impossible and hopeless power fantasy, sorry. Also, the devs are also constantly listening to player feedback all the time actually, they just did an Q&A a few days ago, but you prefer to complain that the "devs never listen" just because they don't listen to *you* in particular. maybe they didn't in the JC days but at least now they are for sure. Either way youtube is the wrong platform to complain on, send a ticket, or ask about this when they do another forum Q&A. TLDR: The game isn't finished, pretty much in alpha in fact, and many features that fix all these problems are still being worked on. You invested loads of money into this game expecting it to be some sort of ultra-realistic survival game but that couldn't be further from the truth. Devs are also constantly listening to player feedback all the time, they just did an Q&A a few days ago, but you prefer to complain that the devs never listen just because they don't listen to *you* in particular.
Hi there. Thank you for your comment. Since you mention that you read the Reddit Post then you would know that I could not mention everything in this one video because then it would be too long, and I also mentioned most of what you are saying in many other videos of mine. As per your points: Even more mining? No, thanks. Territory Warfare: When, and IF it comes, I am sure NQ will promptly manage to make it tedious and illogical, something which they have proven to be masters of time and time again. Survival: I also am not for what you describe (stopping constantly to take food etc.) - no, survival mechanics in general, as in SHELTER for example, from WEATHER CONDITIONS, which then would necessitate houses, and then CITIES (which is the idea behind "rebuilding a civilization"), which in turn then can go further to medicine, crops, energy etc. Feedback: I don't know how long you have been around, but what you call "listening to feedback" is in fact just pretending to do that ONLY shortly before BETA and NOW (because they want to release at any cost) and then that as well just GLOSSING over and picking and choosing questions which are almost irrelevant and even those only answering in the most ambiguous way possible. And your claim that I am only denying their listening to feedback just because they did not listen to MY feedback: NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH. Tell me this: Which single individual in the community wanted TAXES? When did they ever request this? Right. So NQ comes and shoves TAXES in. As a reaction the WHOLE COMMUNITY protests - NQ does a "Q&A", seemingly addressing this complaint and then does what they always do: They talk AROUND IT and then IMPLEMENT THEM ANYWAY -- completely ignoring every single suggestion from every community member. Every single thing I always suggested was not because I WOULD LIKE it to be so - but because they are OBJECTIVELY good things for such a game, and are things which ensure the game will be fun and entertaining. In turn, every single thing that NQ has done, has been OBJECTIVELY illogical and has ensured the game becomes less fun and more work every day. Now, they are either incompetent, or as I said they do not have the funding to do what would be objectively good for the game, in which case that should have been honest and not label an "alpha" as Beta just so that they can take subscription money from people -- although the latter one still does not exclude incompetence - because when you are not able to fix a single button even after 7 years of development that is a prime example of incompetence. G'day to you Sir.
@@sHuRuLuNi Thanks for your response. "Tell me this: Which single individual in the community wanted TAXES? When did they ever request this? Right. So NQ comes and shoves TAXES in. As a reaction the WHOLE COMMUNITY protests - NQ does a "Q&A", seemingly addressing this complaint and then does what they always do: They talk AROUND IT and then IMPLEMENT THEM ANYWAY -- completely ignoring every single suggestion from every community member." Game design is subjective. and people do not always ask for things in favor of the games wellbeing. When taxes were announced, everyone complained about it. NQ responded by adding 5 HQ tiles, which is enough for you to have a base on any planet you want without risking it going offline. But they didn't remove taxes. why? If taxes weren't there, the game would enter hyperinflation, and buying anything would cost billions. when people say "remove taxes!" or "add back VR missions" you need to think if these people are thinking about the wellbeing of the game or the wellbeing of themselves. Usually its the latter. As someone who also got ignored when making suggestions, I get why people might be frustrated NQ didn't listen to feedback beforehand, but those JC days are over i've noticed NQ being much more active to the community once he resigned. The Q&A pretty much answered every question I had.
@@spicedruid This would all be nice and dandy, if the reason behind taxes and behind AutoMiners needing "calibration" etc. would be because NQ is all about the wellbeing of the players - but it is quite clear that this is not the case. The main reason they added taxes (and in conjunction with it the AM and forcing players to login daily for calibration of AMs) is their Operating Costs - This way NQ can reduce server costs and at the same time show login numbers to their private investors and say "Look, there are thousands of people playing every day, so you see - it is working, give us more money". There is no reason whatsoever to have Taxes in the game at this stage at all - first of all because: Who are we paying taxes to? There is no GOVERMENT. There is no Monarch (Unless you count the non-corporeal Entity Aphelia as "monarch"). Is the non-existing government using our taxes to provide community services like city roads and parks? Every single thing in the game is designed in such a way as to artificially prolong everything. Noticed when you get some ore after calibrating how it takes seemingly 5 bloody minutes to gather just one of the bigger rocks (holding mouse button for 5 minutes). Everything is slowed down on purpose, so that it takes much much longer -- thus instead of you playing for 1 month, if you plan to finish something rudimentary you need to P(L)AY for 6 months instead. It is all artificially dragged into annoying slow motion --- there is no reason whatsoever why gathering one rock would take so long. Why do you think their Passive Talent System accumulates talent points of itself so that you can then train EVERY skill on it - but it is made in such a way that to train the 5th (last) Tiers you need months and years --- well, the reason is so that if you really want that one skill - then you are FORCED to PAY for months and years. There is no way to boost it on your own - oh I don't know - maybe by actually USING it? Why can you not select the damaged Elements on your ship and then click a button "Repair", pay the repair costs and then it's done, but you are instead FORCED to click and HOLD the mouse button for as long as 20 minutes in some cases in order to slowly repair that element? And you have to do this for every single element! What, if not artificial delay, is the reason behind it? If you say no, it is not artificial delay - then how can we explain NQs thinking? Maybe like this "Hey guys, let's implement this repair mechanic, but let us make it as annoying as possible! Let us force them to repair only ONE element at a time and only by holding the mouse button for minutes at a time. The players will surely enjoy that". There is no amount of mental gymnastics that can justify NQs direction.
@@sHuRuLuNi Look, I don't know if you know how inflation works, but if you can just passively get tonnes of ore for free, without needing to log on, for as many tiles as you want, the cost of ore would be as worthless as hydrogen, because just like hydrogen, you could obtain it for free from thin air. suddenly the cost of ore would go into the billions. the auto mining is a money faucet, taxes are the money sink so it stays in check, as well as to also stop players from obtaining a billion tiles for free. And yes, it probably goes to Aphelia since you are so concerned whether game mechanics make 'realistic' sense. Same sort of thing goes for all of these things which take time, like talents, surface mining, and repairing. if you could do all of them in a nanosecond what would be the point of it? What would be the 'risk' of flying, if whenever you crash, you can just repair it instantly with the snap of a finger, instead of having to use your precious time repairing it?
You turned my world upside down :) I was going to start playing it, but now I don't want to :) I'm playing "Space Engineers" now and I thought Dual Universe was even better. But now I see that it's not. Thanks for the info :)
sad thing is the core concept of the game is still good, but then i still say the same about Space Engineers AND Medieval Engineers.... and i wind up playing Avorion more these days, and Minecraft when i find a decent modpack to install
hmmm... looks like an attempt to attract all of the lazier of the space engineers players who gave it away as the DLCs arrived and broke some of the extremely common place mods.
I can already predict comments like "but its only Alpha and everything will change". Well, most of core problems are engine related so unless they redo the game those issues will stay here forever.
It’s sad that DU came to this point. When I first discovered it I was optimistic, and excited for the possibilities. I even started creating videos myself, but was time went on and BETA release was nearing I saw the lack of content being a huge issue. No Mans Sky had huge problems in the beginning, but it did become more enjoyable as decent content was added, NovaQuark are just too slow when it comes to valued updates.
It's not really fair to compare NovaQuark with Hello Games. Hello Games has made A LOT of money with No Man's Sky. It had a very financially successful launch (people hated it at first, but it still sold extremely well because it had a huge media presence and marketing campaign behind it.) whereas NovaQuark is still a small game studio--I'm going to assume that it is struggling to keep afloat because this ambitious project probably bled them dry. I mean at least they aimed high though right? Just sad they couldn't actually deliver and need to resort to charging their players subscription fees to cover those base project development costs.
Hi there. A "Beta" is defined as a "feature complete product", i.e. what you see in a Beta is the ACTUAL GAME, and the beta usually only serves for polishing and bug fixing. We KNOW that DU is actually not even a beta, but more like an Alpha - but its official designation from the Developers themselves (Novaquark) is "Beta" - so that video is made based on that supposition. We also KNOW that NQ is RUSHING to get this thing out - they cannot afford to not release it as soon as possible, because their investors are pushing this. Thus, apart from a minor change here and there - THIS is actually the game on release.
@@sHuRuLuNi you just confirmed the game is in alpha, therefore don't you agree that features that completely alter the games mechanics will come out? what about territory warfare? or asteroids, or gas mining, which all fulfil your idea of a risk and reward system which NQ have confirmed multiple times, does that mean nothing then? are you just going to write the game off as a failure all because NQ is a small indie dev team which cannot, believe it or not, make a triple A sized game at the snap of a finger? your argument makes no sense.
@@spicedruid This is a stupid argument. Even if the Devs considered it to be alpha they would have a plan for what is going to be in the game in the future and make that clear. The Devs obviously don't have a plan for dual universe.
@@jamescharnley2522 ??? yes they do! what about the roadmap, or the multiple features they are constantly talking about adding? They made a 3 part devlog on what they are going to do next, and have pretty much 100% committed to what they said. I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know if you hang around on the discord much but they talk about it a lot there, devs chat there daily. I suppose if you aren't on the discord it may seem like NQ are being silent but trust me they talk a lot.
The game is like creative Minecraft, you can build some impressive things, but it gets boring really fast. The game needs to make you feel like an inhabitant of the world rather than just some god. The whole PVP aspect of the game is also incredibly dull and I think it's the result of an overweight of anti-pvp players. I think it's really sad, because the game has potential, moreso, the idea has potential. I just wonder when we'll get a fully fleshed MMO space game (that is played in first person with survival aspects).
I am part of the PVP lobby. For us it is enough if we can somehow destroy what others have, that's all we need. We move from new game to new game, tell the developers to add more and more PVP, and then we stay until the next new game is there and we move on. No need for any real gameplay. Just guns are needed.
I love DU... it is far from perfect but the concept is currently not matched anywhere else. Delivery is poor yes and I agree with many of your points.. but it doesn't have to be all of them... about a year ago.. there was a quest... a number of destroyed ships to find and explore for loot... why can't they do more of these? it wouldn't require any additional tech and could be run by one dev and/or an org.. I desperately want this game to be a success I play for hours every day and have done for over a year... but they do need to make some serious changes ...
If you run missions or mine asteroids, which is the fastest way to make money, there is a lot of risk, and there is a lot to spend it on. I get your point that you would like to see more for the PvE'rs in the safe-zone, but even then I doubt all PvE'rs would agree. There is a portion of the DU community that wants no risk, no costly schematics, no taxes, or anything else. They build cities, or role play, or open up ship shops. I think at the end of the day DU is a lot of different games all rolled together, and if you get bored of one of the, then try another. I know I did... Hail Legion!
That risk is absolutely there, pirates can catch you bringing ore or goods back to base, anywhere in space. This guy just left it out, your ship can be wrecked and you left with nothing. He ignores that you make money to buy things for your factories or even buy complete and ready to go ships. This guy phrases things to make you think it's worse than it is.
A key issue with the physics being the way it is in this game is server stability. If they were doing physic checks every lets say 5 frames, the game would simply be a laggy mess with the "universe" aspect of it all. People constantly carving into mountainings and building / fighting or crashing would cause the servers to stutter to a complete stop. They would need to build the infrastructure first and with all the money they seem'd to have wasted already there is no way that's going to happen.
Nice! I like all the suggestions. Well even if they did all that, one thing that turns me off the most is subscription fee. There are just way too many good games and online games that don't need a subscription
I first played DU one year ago and all I get there was a dull empty feeling with no reason to continue to play Everything you said at the end is implemented in Mortal Online 2 - however its isn't a space game or a building sandbox game, it's a sandbox PVP game with a good risk-reward system ...
The Video is outdated and not realy objectiv, many many things have changed already (The game is in BETA still). The games is making good steps in the right direction at the moment. Unfair to create an hate video because the Beta development is not going fast enough.
Physics are about the same though lol Flying along then bam! Hit a little pebble floating there and demolishes my ship hahha My brother said he was mining a node there and didnt get that little pebble of a rock. Nah they can keep both of these games lol
I like the idea of the game but you are right about it being boring and lifeless. No wildlife, No alien encounters, weather, flora. I play Empyrion - Galactic Survival, it has many of the things I enjoy but its not MMO.
This game is being released in just four days now. It would be good if you could make a follow-up video to inform us of any changes and updates that may have been added in the last 9 months. Even if it's just a small 10 minute video saying, NO, it's still the bloody same!
At least in empyrion there's health, oxygen, stamina, radiation, heat/cold system, plus there's a purpose to explore alien structure : challenge and epic weapon rewards in hidden chests. That's why i'm still playing it sometimes, and with the Reforged eden mod !
@@DesevPostMortem Its true. Empyrion did a fantastic job at improving and developing its single player experience. And I suppose in some ways this was the longest plan overall. But its lost its PVP Consequence mechanics. Anyways, good points you made.
When I said back in 2019 that the lack of AVA will kill the game, I meant it, as a long time pvper, I know how social and congruent the pvp community is, we have hanging out spots for duels, we got our own cliques, also called "social circles". DU does not enable interactions like these. It was dead on arrival the moment they said "we need no avatar versus avatar" or when they said "we want no food in the game". They lied about 99%, the same percent as their turnover on employees. Noone from the kickstarter video is in the company anymore.
The game is dying, they literally just need to open the game up and let the players actually have fun. Instead of locking everything behind more and more walls. Upon loading the game, sometimes the blue nebula would take a while to load in and I could see the beautiful dark black space, until the blue crap loaded in. I remember when the beta first opened up and there were thousands of players running around, flying around, building small bases. I spent weeks mining, building a small little factory and building a spaceship by myself to go and explore the universe. I flew around to a few planets looking for a nice place to call home. But they were all so boring and lifeless, why should I stay on a planet and start building when there's nothing there and no reason to. The game is supposed to be about factions coming together and rebuilding everything. Where different factions would war for land, but there's no reason to do any of it.
Risk reward system is all fucked up! On one end there is none, on the other end if you want to go for a little pvp battle to spice things up you could easily lost all of your ship to those ugly floating boxes that veteran player build ( no functional reason in this game to build apeling ships for battle). I keep playing even when they took away the industry from players, at the time I was bit annoyed but agreed, and then I really stop playing when they took away ownership of lands, like you had to be present to be able to keep your lands or something. So If I wanted to go afk for some months all my work would be loss. From that period I realize there's no point in doing anything in the game lol just pure grind. At least in other mmos if you grind long enough you became better at battle and had a sense of proud, here there's no pve so it's pointless and the pvp is simply not apeling. It's dead for me.
i reinstalled the game yesterday to give it another try after not playing for 6+ months. went in completely blind and hopeful and was disappointed with such little change, it feels like they gave up on fixing the core issues, lost any sort of "vision" for the game and now are just band-aiding in lifeless updates now. i was told by a few players you had to delete your character to "redo" the new tutorial nowadays (old tutorial was infinitely replayable) which meant i was stuck with the codex to read for re-learning. players even mentioned that full released is rumored to be "just around the corner". next thing i did is looked online for other people's opinions and here i am. so much for the next generation of MMOs :-(
the only thing i don't really agree with on the video was the criticism with building mechanics. the voxel complexity of this game made it pretty obvious the lack of physics is a limitation by design to me. everything else in the video is spot on though.
When I backed the game I was only looking for a mmo Space Engineers, which it basically is except for the survival mechanics. I do wish there was survival stuff and more things to do. Seems like most of the content like that isn't planned until after release.
"...after release." I really get tired of hearing that line from NQ. We will develop this basic, necessary feature AFTER we develop the game. It's complete hogwash, a way to say we aren't doing that but stall any pushback.
You should check out empyrion galactic survival. It has a lot of the stuff that you said was missing from this game. Like you have to eat and have oxygen. And there is a structural integrity system as well. You could have your cockpit be open to space but if you don't have a helmet and oxygen you will die. Empyrion definitely has it's bugs but the devs do update it relatively frequently. In my opinion empyrion is very fun and I have over 100 hours in the game
I wanted to play but I encountered an odd bug that would not even allow me to create an account, much less play. I put in a ticket and 60 days later they replied saying that in some cases this bug effected people. So too bad for me. Over a YEAR later they emailed me asking if I was able to create an account. -_-
Interesting. I have been wondering something and I need to actually check, but in No Man's Sky, is it possible to fly to a sun? In Elite Dangerous for example, you can fly to a star and if you get too close too it your ship will take heat damage and the modules can become unusable if you don't fly away, this type of thing is important realism. So that is why I'm wondering if its possible to fly near a star in No Man's Sky. I've seen the red, blue and yellow stars on the galaxy map, and on the intro loading screen, but I haven't seen any suns or stars in the areas that you can fly to. That's weird. Good explanation of Dual Universe. It looks so interesting on the premise, but I now see why it didn't work well.
Hey. I recognise that sign. I was just out there and purchased the Maya(?) BP. Sadly, with the changes in this last patch, I'm more then likely never going to build that ship. At this point, I'm ready to call it quits as well. Taxation is theft, even in a game. It turns us into slaves to ta clock, pay those 'taxes' or you quickly find out who owns your territory. I've gone from making 10-30mil a day, to now harvesting table scraps off the ground. No longer will I land on a beach just to watch the sun set on that planet. I have Star Citizen installed as well, (original backer), time to see what changes they have made in the year or so I haven't played.
All great points, and you say them much more eloquently than I do. Anymore I just see it as a hot pile of garbage with a bleak future, or a lack thereof.
I didn't even remembered this gsme anymore lol, i almost invedted on it, but after this video in happy i totally forgot about it lol, i mean, i got bored watching the video, so i totally get your point of just not being fun at all playing in God mode
It was realy fun in pre-alpha, everything was new and I was dreaming of big cities, gigantic ships and great battles. Now it's hard to decide if I still want to dream or face reality, that I still haven't seen a big city or a gigantic ship flying around. Nor have I seen adventure, exept for the first time i went to space with a voxel lump that was my ship. All I have seen was empty lands and junkyards with hundrets of ships lying around and noone there to fly them. Maybe I only went to the wrong places but I haven't seen a trace of civilisation yet. It has been a long time since I have played, but I would love to have a small fuelstation in orbit that looks like a mixture of a diner and an old gasstation sitting on a chunk of dirt, like it was ripped out of the ground. And people from around the galaxy would come by and have a snack while their ships get refueled. That really would make me happy...I guess I'm still dreaming.
Played for a few months 2 years ago. Hunting or was OK, removing hand mining is stupid. Designing ships was amazing. Having to fly them with a keyboard was game breaking. You don't want physics, it let's you design fantastic structures. I will sub for 6 months today, just because I have nothing else to play and escape my work from home routine.
I was looking at this game, and then they made a bunch of choices I did not like, then I turned to Starbase, which fell more into line with what I wanted, but that game has recently been disappointing as well... The search for my perfect space game continues.
I really love space engineers whole deal but it has too many technical issues to be like Minecraft where u can build and infinite amount of cool shit on a fun server.
If you liked this video YOU COULD BUY ME A COFFEE: paypal.me/sHuRuLuNi
Thank you very much.
For that cringe whining? Absolutely not.
@@FyrestarCom Thank you for your comment.
Give me some sugar
Sheesh.... amazing how I can go from super excited watching the official trailer to completely disillusioned after watching this. Having said that, MMORPGs with intricate building aspects generally won't be successful with the current ADHD generation of gamers. There should be a much easier way to get these structures in place so players can focus on conflict and politics.
@@henrythegreatamerican8136 Sure, but what conflict and what politics? Both should emerge naturally and organically through PVE - but there is no PVE, so nothing emerges.
Conflict, for example, would emerge from Territory Warfare, where certain locations on planets have certain advantages, be it energy, ore, strategic location etc. - but there is nothing of the sort.
Politics would then emerge as a natural consequence of the above. Since the first premise is missing, then the whole structure collapses, and what is left is a boring copy&paste sandbox with rudimentary mechanics, no risk, no reward and no depth.
Space engineers has a similar issue. Unless you're extremely interested in building, there's just... no real reason to play
that's describing almost all building games, dyson sphere program, space engineers, DU etc. It applies to even 'crafting' in other games, such as in MMORPGS.
Like in FFXIV there are so many crafter classes and all of them are so lifeless and boring, even a simple automated bot can do them and the reward is nothing but an item which can earn you some ingame currency and rinse and repeat. Now I get it that more money means more stuff to do, but if money is the goal then it makes perfect sense to use a bot to do the work, unless you're getting something else from the process, like fun, but I heavily doubt people who say they have fun mindlessly clicking the same buttons really get what fun means.
My point being, doing the same task again and again, as in 'grinding', can be entirely delegated to automating scripts/programs/bots etc. and if you aren't even having fun doing them then there's 0 point in not going automated. All building and crafting games/features, hence, have no real reason to be played.
@@cryonim In games like DSP and Factorio, the actual construction portion is (or should be) abstracted away, because the real game is the puzzle solving, not the construction of the base itself. Space engineers' industry system is too simple for meaningful engagement in that manner. Once you build your refinery and whatnot, why keep playing?
Sorry I can't give a better response, but I forgot what my original comment was really referring to, exactly.
@@johiahdoesstuff1614 Space engineers is definitely worth playing - the gratification comes from realising your creations into the digital landscape, with complex conveyor systems, or pitting your creations against others, and creating towering factories to operate out of. The motivation to play comes from the same place as those who play Minecraft, or build with Lego; there is no 'reward', per say - the reward is the process of building itself.
@@bobbobson304 at least minecraft has decent mobs that can be challenging
@@NicoDiAngelo603 with mods you can add enemy ai to space engineers and it makes it really fun
I recall asking and pushing for basic survival during alpha, saying it would be great to add foodstuff to these markets and give another element to the economy, give a reason to build near water, add value to fertile land, add more logistical reasons for space travel....and received a ton of pushback, not from the devs, but from the carebear community. Those few loud-mouths that just want to make pretty stuffs without having to take 2 seconds to push a button and consume something every hour or 6. Really tragic.
You're absolutely right though, that game is on it's way to shutting down the servers unless they get some risk/reward in there. And what ever happened to FPS-PVP???
If one or two of the planets were removed that could free up some space of the server , so they can a crucial elements like FPS gameplay .
I don't think those carebear people know that there are plenty of better modeling software like blender (free). They fail to understanding that in single server games everyone is connected , the pvp world is not different from the safe zone world .
If the safe zone is a way more viable option to mine , no one will risk going into pvp zone . Nobody wants to lose , but you can't have a game without losers . Most people won't believe this , but it is losing that makes winning matter to human .
My my! That's such a shame. I just stumbled upon this game today and this doesn't bode well.
There is a lot of fun to be had. I don't know if the devs put this one back on the right track, it was pretty close to dead last time I hopped on, months ago, which is just tragic for a game with this much potential.
Totally agree. When I first played DU at the start of the beta, it was an incredibly freeing and innovative experience. Not having played any MMOs, this really felt like an incredible evolution to gaming. And on paper, the concept of player driven design and economies are pretty brilliant. I do hope DU survives, maybe goes free to play and injects some fresh ideas and like you said: Risk/Reward. Permadeath would be interesting.
I was playing this game in the open beta and first it was fun. Achieving spaceflight was a good thing, but from there the game was pretty much an empty void. Sad! Even without "survival" mechanics, the game should provide some kind of challenges, different environments, radiation, temperatures, atmospheric pressure...whatever. But there was none of it because it is not a physic simulation. Having some more advanced spaceflight mechanics like Kerbal Space Program would've be awesome.
Not really sure about KSP Mechanics, but radiation, temperature and spacial anomalies would be nice
The first part was actually just minecraft. No structure rules, no physics. And yet minecraft still last longer. Maybe because of the freedom or survival instincts.
I would say that survival mechanics are actually what makes Minecraft tick, and what separates it from all those other sandboxes that failed (or nearly did) once their players discovered how empty the games felt. Survival is what creates the risk-reward duality, what motivates the player to meaningfully engage with the building, exploring and combat mechanics, and what gives gameplay a kind of purpose. You are presented with a challenge that taps into one of our deepest psychological drives: the urge to survive, thrive and ultimately transform the hostile wilderness in a hospitable place. Survival mode is thus functional. Creative mode, for contrast, is there just for the aesthetics of function.
But Minecraft has bosses and different ores at deeper levels. If Minecraft had all ores at the ground level, no bosses, no real reason to go anywhere to explore, no survival aspects or challenges and no mod support. You think it would still be the Minecraft it is today?
I was obsessed with this game during my freshman year of high school (now graduated) and *payed to join the beta as soon as it launched, even though my computer couldn't handle it at all. I started my own space pirate organization (which ultimately fell through) and eventually teamed up with some mercenaries called Vanguard and later joined the Dark Star Imperium cause I was super fuckin edgy. I had so much fun coming up with really cool and unique ship ideas and was so excited to play this. So tbh like you, it really hurts that this is what it is now and seeing all my hopes for this game have turned to ashes in my mouth. I really hope that Novaquark reverses course and decides to fix the game, even if it requires completely redoing the framework and like you said, adding some reward or reason to rebuild civilization. No Mans Sky and now even Cyberpunk (to an extent) have managed to make a comeback and I hope DU can do the same. [Also, its really odd that they're actually charging people to play it in its current state, that doesn't give me hope.]
Oh no no no, good sir/madam. Do you really think that Novaquark will redo framework or add major mechanics or fixes at this stage of development? So close to an apparent release? Please be sensible my good gentleman/lady. No Mans Sky and Cyberpunk *could* do all of those things and more post-launch because they were massive financial successes (failures sure--because everyone hated it, but still doesn't change the fact that they sold a lot of copies, due of course to massive marketing campaigns)
This game on the other hand has not sold all that well hence why they are charging people to play in its current state. The ship is sinking so you might as well wring it for every last penny it has to at least attempt to cover those development costs incurred. It's sad, indeed. I had hopes for this project but at some point, you just need to be realistic.
I feel ya, I won t be giving them more money for a subscription. They are probably done for they dident even give backers a free month of play.
@@jamesparks3968 Damn fr? Thats fucked up
It really is a bummer. I enjoyed my time playing this game, but the whole idea of losing all the time-based skill points with the wipe, in addition to the increase in monthly subscription price is completely absurd.
@@jamesparks3968 Yo, they did give many many months of free play to those who backed. If you backed you should have gotten at least 1 DAC, which is a month of game time that you manually added to your game time through the site. I got 3 of them for my 60$ package. So what you are saying is completely false, and miss information.
I 100% agree on the Survival Mechanics. As for the time-based skill system.. it's great because you CAN'T LEARN EVERYTHING because you are time-capped. The best skills are only attainable for specialists. Sure people can be jacks of all trades, but not masters. This is small-group friendly. Not everyone wants to be in a huge guild. But survival mechanics is a must, and needs to be done ASAP.
Puts a lot into perspective, many things that Star Citizen already has going on. Oxygen, temperature, food/water etc..
I think this is truly the best way to explain what happened to this game. There's no consequences. But a note on the lighting and the cartoony nebula. This is exactly what Elite Dangerous got rid of and people had a fit and swore it (space that is) was too dark. Thanks for appreciating actual dark and expansive looking space.
And yes many people fail to understand labor and economy in a game like this. The got mad when they tried to fix this and stopped along you to be able to just craft everything in the game within weeks and not need anyone. They did the same in Starbase. Folks could not understand the purpose of that skill system the released at the last minute. Was it perfect no but it made sense to me.
I can't help but feel that if these concepts where implemented in even a very basic way. This game would become very popular. Sadly that requires work and most developers would rather copy-paste a world and move on to the next project.
My biggest complaint about MMO's is the lack of any truly random event. The resources, npcs dungeons, etc. are always in the same place and if removed just reappear after a predetermined time span. Just once id like to see a living open world. Where changes have meaning. Nothing worse then seeing the same encounter respawn every 15mins etc.
couldnt have said it any better bro
you want something like Minecraft .
I never played it but I believe Utlima Online worked much that way. That was like 25 years ago so I'm not sure that really counts
Your video kept me away, but a friend asked me to give it a try and I am loving it. It has made huge progress and I look forward to the future! Pvp has gotten much better. But that all being said your points are still valid and I agree with almost all of them. I wish the skybox would be fixed.
You bring up some valid points, but not every game needs to be a survival game.
If the game is about creating a civilisation, the game should be about the players, but for that to be immersive, you would need RPG mechanics which the game does not contain.
The sad thing about this games develompent is that it used to be way better in the early development stages, some core features have been removed to provide performance for the multiplayer experience, in turn making other features in the game like industry and mining less fun, turning it into a boring grind.
I totally forgot about this game. Hard to believe this is ≈ 7 years in development. I should point everyone who complains about Star Citizen's development to this video. Lol
Big budget difference, but both with the same problem of overpromising what they can achieve.
Ah yes just like pucberkyn 2077
@@funwithfish1507 No mans sky effect does not apply to all
Dual Universe didn't fail due to the lack of risk and reward. It failed due to a developer who had zero understand of game development. They rush the game out of alpha stage before all the game feature were in and pushed it into beta. During beta they added more game features and still didn't have the PVP aspect worked out yet. Then one of the DEVS made a bad mistake which lead to a Market to be pull apart by some players and the developer handled that entire situation so poorly it almost killed the game while the developer whined like a baby over it. Then the developer releases some patches caused even more problem with its player base which lead to more leaving the game.
So in concluding risk vs reward is not the reason why this game failed. It was NQ screwed up development from the start and what they should have been up front and honest to their backers apologizing to them as oppose to trying to keep it all in the dark and hiding their fails.
Boy, i was obsessed with this game years ago. This game could have been a mixture of Eve Online and Space Engineers. But i couldn't believe that studio would be successful making a good game. An sadly they aren't. The first videos of the game were fantastic. The longer they developed the game the more concerned i became. My dream was a game like Space Engineers but better, bigger, more purpose, more content and more players on a single server. But its lacking everything.
I stopped playing 12/20/2020 and never went back. This guy is correct and it's sad. I had a lot of time invested in that game but felt it went in a strange direction and I decided to leave it all behind. I see how little it's changed, and nothing makes me want to pick it up and pay the subscription.
"What is the purpose of building?" Is now the first question I ask when looking at a building/ survival game.
I was a silver founder for DU and I don't think any other game has disappointed me more because of what it could have been. I've never seen a company work so hard to pry failure from the jaws of success as Novaquark.
This looks like a cool game, you make excellent points, and I want to thank you for putting your time and energy into this game! I haven't played it but I want to see a world where this kind of game is more common and better developed!
It really needed some simple mechanics like food and water and inebriants. I SO want to make a space-brewery, or open up a Milliways lol. But alas...
Also having aliens would've been a nice touch. Just random encounters that you come across, or on rare occasions they just rip apart some of the outlying planets until their assault is beaten back.
I just want a space game like Ark Survival but more expansive, economy based, and less toxic but still very risk-reward based like he says in this video. Is that really so hard?
Apparently so
Starfield
The intro really sets the tone for this video
I largely agree with you. The risk and reward is seriously lacking here, especially when it comes to how death is treated. The one place I might disagree is introducing generic survival mechanics specifically. I think having something like permadeath could be a sharp enough risk factor to facilitate caution and caring about what happens. Having to manage your hunger and thirst would get tedious very quickly, as it often does in other survival games. I could be wrong on this and at a base level it certainly needs more risk planet side in general. Just not sure meter monitoring is it, unless it can be fully automated.
I have never heard of this game until it popped up on my Google feed this morning.
I was somewhat suprised that this game is being released in September 2022 in its current condition.
It doesn't look much different than the footage in your video.
8 years of development, 2 years of beta and this is what investors are given?
I invested in a Kickstarter for a game once. It turned out to to be a major disappointment.
The developers collected far above their goal, then continued to solicit donations via their website after the Kickstarter closed.
Then approximately a year later after some "nothing" level additions to their lag pile, one of the owners posted a photo of his new Porsche on his Facebook says "Thank you to all of the investors.
Of course as you probably well guessed, his page erupted with angry players and he removed the post.
That's the last time I would be foolish enough to give developers money to do nothing.
I feel your pain and I understand your frustration. You invested money, time and feedback for a number of years only to get a painfully substandard game in its graphics and game mechanics.
it has changed quite a bit. but ya I understand. I don't do kickstarters anymore. I am always left feeling used. from issues getting ur rewards...even digital versions. to games well above goals and still turn out trash. only to see pictures of new homes and cars like u said. pass
I've built several bases within mountains in Empyrion: Galactic Survival. They need to have structural integrity as well.
I have never tried Empyrion actually ...
@@sHuRuLuNi Check it out. It sounds like it could be right up your street.
Coincidentally the very next video I watched mentions you and this video of yours. th-cam.com/video/9M6bl0gldZU/w-d-xo.html
I switched from DU to Empyrion for pretty much all the reasons in this video
tbh star citizen has this same issue
massive open beautiful world no real gameplay just a bunch of tech demos
this game at least functions but still lacks focus
It's a dream. The idea we can have a game, like a persistent universe where people create and build a community themselves. Sounds amazing in theory.
But this dream will only be realized by a completely different species in some other far away universe. We're human, and human beings aren't capable of doing anything but completely fucking up a dream like that.
But also the game is not well thought out.
this would work in VR, people are far more immersed there, and because of that are more willing to play normally
We’ve been making video games for a very short amount of time as a species
I rather have a single player/multiplayer game with mod support and dedicated servers. Not this MMO BS. Hopefully starship evo delivers
@@S200. congrats theres a ducking lot of those already
Totally agree with this video. I often say to my org...why are we playing this? It lacks any reason. I build lots of ships and sell them...but the only reason people buy them really is because they like them..I have ships sat on my pad waiting for a reason to use them. DU is a massive missed opportunity. It really needs PVE. NQ simply didn't have the money and resources to make this game a reality. It's quite sad because I love the idea and loved building the ships.
Thank you for saving my money, I was about to buy it !!
Same
Completely agree with all the points you made in the video and brought them up myself a couple times in-game. It's a shame they focused so much on building/sculpting that they just forgot to implement any real game mechanics. All "games" can be boiled down to simply a set of challenges/goals that must be achieved within a defined set of rules... there's just none of that in Dual Universe. There's no drive or reason to do anything. Even something as simple as a need to eat food would give all kinds of reasons/motivations to explore and build stuff (e.g. making a house to store food, or a tavern/pub to serve food at). It's like the developers just don't understand what has motivated people to actually build civilizations for real, which has always been about survival and making survival easier. Isn't that like common sense? We don't build houses just for the hell of it lol we build houses to store food, to keep our possessions safe, to use the bathroom in peace, to cook in, to sleep without worry of being eaten by predators, etc. How could they expect anyone to want to build houses and cities for... reasons? Just because we can? Seriously... it's just laughable.
I played this game for a very long time until one day, I literally woke up and asked myself the same question. "Why?" Why am I doing any of this? I logged in, looked at everything I had and just logged back out. I haven't touched it since sadly. It was fun'ISH, but I Had no reason to anything and just digging holes to get resource numbers to sell things to collect more numbers.
eh
i feel like the arguing was somewhat incomplete. like the points where valid options but sounded like there where no exception. just some nitpicking and probably because of the many times you already made these points and where tired of repeating them again. but i generally agree. the ideas you brought forward would truly catapult the quality up by several orders of magnitude, even if they ae just some of a few options. would you mind to have a longer conversation about the subject at some point? im a game dev possibly about to go indie and might try to create a (much) smaller version of the game DU could have become as my first project. and its like to just bounce some ideas with others that actually play this genre and have some actual basic grasp of game dev
Thank you for the comment. Yes, you are right: the reason I didn't go into details is precisely because I have done it many times in many hours long videos.
Regarding ideas bouncing, I would have to get back to you on that at some point when time permits.
The truth is the company pivoted to B2B metaverse services. Look at the Linkedin.
Yeah, I know, the CEO and his dream of 3d Blogging (whatever the hell that is) ...
@@sHuRuLuNi another Metafail
You have earned a fan today, I have hit the bell icon so that I get notified whenever you post a video.
Awesome, thank you!
This game had a lot of activity until they killed the economy with the schematic update. I stopped playing when my entire factory lines needed $100k blueprints to manufacturer screws.
They focused on the wrong things to develop. Manufacturing and selling items was THE ONLY THING TO DO and they made that harder
You are absolutely right. Great Video. Hope they listen and use their time to make it great.
Nice video! My guess on some things like the lighting and physics is: They started building their dream game and had to realize, how complicated it is to build an engine, which can synchronize all these elements AND complex physics and realistic lighting etc in a MULTIPLAYER ENVIRONMENT. That's why e.g. No Man's Sky had no multiplayer at all at release. And besides that, it was build with a very basic and arcade mechanic and lighting. Nothing in the code regarding a complex physics simulation like e.g. MS Flight Simulator 2020 or Star Citizen. That's also why Star Citizen takes so long. Because they want to have all those realistic features in the engine for Squadron 42 but also have them synchronized for every player in the multiplayer universe, which on todays hardware and server technology is nearly impossible. No "normal thinking" game company would start to do it or would have the ressources and time to do so.
Yes the companies in question would also need dragon hoard mountain loads of gold coins treasure in order to achieve those complex mechanics and code calculations like Chris Roberts funding or the financial success of No Man's Sky which allowed them to expand their game company and mold NMS into the great game it is today. Novaquark on the other hand, does not have millions in the bank to fall back on so they cannot afford the time nor resources to implement those changes. All that's left is simply just release the game as is and hope to salvage a profit.
@@sealofapproval5598 Yes, i did include that dragongold in "ressources" - at least in my head :)
Hey man, have to agree with you. It's kinda sad to see the whole situation with DU. I'm still holding onto the hope that DU gets better eventually, but it's honestly not looking up. Thanks for the vid!
Hey lad, I enjoyed watching your building videos - and yes, I would also like for DU to actually get better, but like you I have almost completely lost hope ...
Yeah every month or so I see the icon and have a moment of silence while I decide whether to finally uninstall and be done with it or hold out a little longer. Each time, there is less reason to hold out.
Structural physics in DU would be a nightmare! Can you imagine losing and entire mountain base due to a silly mistake? No thanks 😂
Yes, I can. That's why you should not make silly mistakes. Also, you would probably notice the "mistake" early on if the game was done right, because it would show you the structural strength of materials and shapes you are trying to build BEFORE you build them, just like some other MMOs do, like this: th-cam.com/video/Ba-H0Porm1M/w-d-xo.html
@@sHuRuLuNi I get that. A few games do this, but it's not always fun in my opinion. It's okay for a small house like in Valheim with a nice and easy snapping system. Conan Online has something similar and it frustrated the heck out of me.
The way things are actually built in DU also do not lend itself to this either. Like where do you draw the line? If I want to make a small voxel stair case, arched doorway, or piece of furniture, do I need it to be structurally sound?
I get that that it's not the most addictive game on the planet, but these things it does do right that no other games I know of do, are astounding IMO =)
I love the idea of a large immersive space game. In 2014 I started looking for a PC game that would fulfill this, and I remember being somewhat excited about Dual Universe. Thought No Mans Sky looked awesome too. I was willing to wait 5 or 10 years if I saw something really worth investing in. Landed on Star Citizen and backed in 2016, glad I did. It's not there yet, but like I said I'm willing to wait. If it doesn't work out, I'll live. (I honestly believe it will).
Yeah ... me too, also still waiting .... I just wanted a game like you, immersive, with real space, with many possibilities for exploration, things to discover, mysteries, ...
I called it an expensive alpha experience..
I had lots of fun building ships, testing them and gathering material on other planets.. I've also met nice people, but I could do that in SE as well.. with a lot less headache, and money..
It's very sad to see what happened to Dual Universe since they went into Beta.. it'll drop more and more playernumbers because, like you said, there's nothing to do on a long term..
PVP is atrociously bad and let's not talk about industries.
Your vertical style ship reminds me of something from black prophecy. I loved that game.
I actually saw that coming from the day they revealed their plans. It isn't as easy to make a good game as a specialist for robotics and AI might think it is.
Now, saying that... Space engineers and Empyrion Galactic Survival might be what you wish for in terms of survival and building. Its just not that those are MMOs. They pretty much show that full scale player build constructs, lighting and performance do not get together very well.
Of course it went the way it did. It just reeked of… whatever the hell even happened
I backed DU a long time ago and haven’t touched it for a while (over a year) I was hoping to see a bunch of work and changes done to the world. Sadly after looking at some videos on yt it seems to just be in the same state it was and isn’t moving forward in any meaningful way.
100% agreed. I was hoping for even a little smidge of PvE content since I played this last year but stopped because it was pointless. Maybe a series of Friendly/Neutral/Hostile NPC factions that you could trade with/fight with or against. Raid a hostile NPC HQ, destroy their little fighters, boss battles with bigger ships, salvage all the wrecks for rare ship parts/weapons, collect bounties on particularly dangerous Factions, fight other corporations/players in PvP over the rewards, etc. Really hoping NQ sees your video and takes even a little of it to heart. Great video!
bought this game the day it went into open beta. spent a solid 500 hours in it with a small group of IRL friends and a few that play games with us from the internet. We all stopped playing with in a week or two of each other. We got to Jago, built up a nice factory, was only 8 or so tiles away from our local market which we ended up controlling the prices for near the end of our play. We had several billion quanta between the group. Almost everything was automated to the point where we were only mining and not building anymore. Anything we wanted was available in storage.. We had 3 capital ships, dozens of carriers for off world mining, dozens of warp ships for general travel to hit off world markets... it just got boring after the 350-400 hour mark. The pvp is absolutely terrible. There is zero player interaction outside of your own group of players. The lag was insane at times. It was all around just a bad game once you got a small factory up and going.
We went back to Space Engineers. We are still waiting for a cosmic sandbox mmo.
I just wish we could have built anything we wanted with in our own tiles. instead its just a big static box...
Huh... turns out NOONE wants to pay a subscription for a game as deep as a cookie sheet! Who would have thought! 🙄
Shocking, right?
Ye, I loved this game till they removed hand mining and/or ore in the ground. Then the lack of anything other than building. Had game since Kickstarter Gold sub haven't played since the markets was redone.
Bad start. I don't think physics is the best example or necessary as a risk reward system. Look at minecraft. Adding things like that would make building take longer and be more restrictive to creativity. The building in DU is extraordinary. There is nothing anywhere close to what they've done here. Sadly, that is the only thing DU does well. A master of one you could say. I agree with you on basically everything else. Except the skybox. I'm fine with what they have or the black emptiness. And the Sun. Would be nice, but I'd rather them spend there time on content. Risk and reward. Game loops. It is bad, soulless and empty. Shallow existence.
so is real life when you sit down and examine it... soulless and empty, shallow existence...
@@mikewhitaker2880 ...but you can't just sit there, eventually you have to eat; you need fresh water to drink; you have weather to overcome; oxygen to breathe; temperature to dress for. And you need a way to accumulate these things. An entire society is built around easing those burdens. Don't defend bad game design.
Well.. no. Minecraft is good, but it’s pixels on a screen. A more serious game like dual universe would have physics by default. Maybe they could add a mechanic to add floating
Such good points. My group was like many and just staying for the sake of playing with eachother but as time goes on, it's as if the devs are trying to lose players. Installing star citizen as I type this
oooooh boy. ummm long time sc backer here. do not i repeat do not expect smooth gameplay. its a buggy and janky mess and will continue to be so until they figure out server meshing. but if you are down for that then the game has some really amazing play when its good.
@@TheCort1971 Yaaaa the bugs are intense
You 100% pegged dual universe. It's sad that most people don't understand this they're so sucked into the game as it is they don't realize why the game can't retain new players and can't keep people from getting bored and uninterested
I like how you don't mention once the fact that territory warfare, gas mining or, like every other gameplay mechanic CONFIRMED to be coming out in the near future that completely overhauls the 'risk and reward' system you mentioned missing is not mentioned once in your argument. Asteroid mining completely overhauled mining resources, having a massive reward but also giving a huge risk of being pirated. Call it good or bad, you cannot deny that it is risk and reward, textbook definition.
You said in your reddit post that the game is pretty much an alpha being labelled as a beta, and I agree. That means that massive gameplay changes like these can come out, can't they?
You also seem to have a heavy emphasis on there needing to be survival elements in this game to be good, but I could not agree less. Survival games are a bloated genre which do nothing but give you busy work to do, just look in no mans sky's case. running out of life support just means you have to stop what you're doing just to tediously pick up some oxygen plants for a minute or so, I do not see how the same wouldn't happen to DU too. DU is simply not an ultra realistic survival game with realistic physics, PvE interactions, farming, and ancient civilisations with rare loot which changes the development of the ENTIRE GAME, stop expecting that from a small indie dev team. The fact that you backed a significant amount of money into this game expecting this, even though it wasn't mentioned once by NQ, just makes me feel like you are trying to find nothing but an impossible and hopeless power fantasy, sorry.
Also, the devs are also constantly listening to player feedback all the time actually, they just did an Q&A a few days ago, but you prefer to complain that the "devs never listen" just because they don't listen to *you* in particular. maybe they didn't in the JC days but at least now they are for sure. Either way youtube is the wrong platform to complain on, send a ticket, or ask about this when they do another forum Q&A.
TLDR:
The game isn't finished, pretty much in alpha in fact, and many features that fix all these problems are still being worked on. You invested loads of money into this game expecting it to be some sort of ultra-realistic survival game but that couldn't be further from the truth. Devs are also constantly listening to player feedback all the time, they just did an Q&A a few days ago, but you prefer to complain that the devs never listen just because they don't listen to *you* in particular.
Hi there.
Thank you for your comment. Since you mention that you read the Reddit Post then you would know that I could not mention everything in this one video because then it would be too long, and I also mentioned most of what you are saying in many other videos of mine.
As per your points:
Even more mining? No, thanks.
Territory Warfare: When, and IF it comes, I am sure NQ will promptly manage to make it tedious and illogical, something which they have proven to be masters of time and time again.
Survival: I also am not for what you describe (stopping constantly to take food etc.) - no, survival mechanics in general, as in SHELTER for example, from WEATHER CONDITIONS, which then would necessitate houses, and then CITIES (which is the idea behind "rebuilding a civilization"), which in turn then can go further to medicine, crops, energy etc.
Feedback: I don't know how long you have been around, but what you call "listening to feedback" is in fact just pretending to do that ONLY shortly before BETA and NOW (because they want to release at any cost) and then that as well just GLOSSING over and picking and choosing questions which are almost irrelevant and even those only answering in the most ambiguous way possible.
And your claim that I am only denying their listening to feedback just because they did not listen to MY feedback: NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH.
Tell me this: Which single individual in the community wanted TAXES? When did they ever request this? Right. So NQ comes and shoves TAXES in. As a reaction the WHOLE COMMUNITY protests - NQ does a "Q&A", seemingly addressing this complaint and then does what they always do: They talk AROUND IT and then IMPLEMENT THEM ANYWAY -- completely ignoring every single suggestion from every community member.
Every single thing I always suggested was not because I WOULD LIKE it to be so - but because they are OBJECTIVELY good things for such a game, and are things which ensure the game will be fun and entertaining.
In turn, every single thing that NQ has done, has been OBJECTIVELY illogical and has ensured the game becomes less fun and more work every day.
Now, they are either incompetent, or as I said they do not have the funding to do what would be objectively good for the game, in which case that should have been honest and not label an "alpha" as Beta just so that they can take subscription money from people -- although the latter one still does not exclude incompetence - because when you are not able to fix a single button even after 7 years of development that is a prime example of incompetence.
G'day to you Sir.
@@sHuRuLuNi Thanks for your response.
"Tell me this: Which single individual in the community wanted TAXES? When did they ever request this? Right. So NQ comes and shoves TAXES in. As a reaction the WHOLE COMMUNITY protests - NQ does a "Q&A", seemingly addressing this complaint and then does what they always do: They talk AROUND IT and then IMPLEMENT THEM ANYWAY -- completely ignoring every single suggestion from every community member."
Game design is subjective. and people do not always ask for things in favor of the games wellbeing.
When taxes were announced, everyone complained about it. NQ responded by adding 5 HQ tiles, which is enough for you to have a base on any planet you want without risking it going offline. But they didn't remove taxes. why? If taxes weren't there, the game would enter hyperinflation, and buying anything would cost billions.
when people say "remove taxes!" or "add back VR missions" you need to think if these people are thinking about the wellbeing of the game or the wellbeing of themselves. Usually its the latter.
As someone who also got ignored when making suggestions, I get why people might be frustrated NQ didn't listen to feedback beforehand, but those JC days are over i've noticed NQ being much more active to the community once he resigned. The Q&A pretty much answered every question I had.
@@spicedruid This would all be nice and dandy, if the reason behind taxes and behind AutoMiners needing "calibration" etc. would be because NQ is all about the wellbeing of the players - but it is quite clear that this is not the case.
The main reason they added taxes (and in conjunction with it the AM and forcing players to login daily for calibration of AMs) is their Operating Costs - This way NQ can reduce server costs and at the same time show login numbers to their private investors and say "Look, there are thousands of people playing every day, so you see - it is working, give us more money".
There is no reason whatsoever to have Taxes in the game at this stage at all - first of all because: Who are we paying taxes to? There is no GOVERMENT. There is no Monarch (Unless you count the non-corporeal Entity Aphelia as "monarch"). Is the non-existing government using our taxes to provide community services like city roads and parks?
Every single thing in the game is designed in such a way as to artificially prolong everything.
Noticed when you get some ore after calibrating how it takes seemingly 5 bloody minutes to gather just one of the bigger rocks (holding mouse button for 5 minutes).
Everything is slowed down on purpose, so that it takes much much longer -- thus instead of you playing for 1 month, if you plan to finish something rudimentary you need to P(L)AY for 6 months instead.
It is all artificially dragged into annoying slow motion --- there is no reason whatsoever why gathering one rock would take so long.
Why do you think their Passive Talent System accumulates talent points of itself so that you can then train EVERY skill on it - but it is made in such a way that to train the 5th (last) Tiers you need months and years --- well, the reason is so that if you really want that one skill - then you are FORCED to PAY for months and years. There is no way to boost it on your own - oh I don't know - maybe by actually USING it?
Why can you not select the damaged Elements on your ship and then click a button "Repair", pay the repair costs and then it's done, but you are instead FORCED to click and HOLD the mouse button for as long as 20 minutes in some cases in order to slowly repair that element? And you have to do this for every single element!
What, if not artificial delay, is the reason behind it?
If you say no, it is not artificial delay - then how can we explain NQs thinking? Maybe like this "Hey guys, let's implement this repair mechanic, but let us make it as annoying as possible! Let us force them to repair only ONE element at a time and only by holding the mouse button for minutes at a time. The players will surely enjoy that".
There is no amount of mental gymnastics that can justify NQs direction.
@@sHuRuLuNi
Look, I don't know if you know how inflation works, but if you can just passively get tonnes of ore for free, without needing to log on, for as many tiles as you want, the cost of ore would be as worthless as hydrogen, because just like hydrogen, you could obtain it for free from thin air. suddenly the cost of ore would go into the billions. the auto mining is a money faucet, taxes are the money sink so it stays in check, as well as to also stop players from obtaining a billion tiles for free.
And yes, it probably goes to Aphelia since you are so concerned whether game mechanics make 'realistic' sense.
Same sort of thing goes for all of these things which take time, like talents, surface mining, and repairing. if you could do all of them in a nanosecond what would be the point of it? What would be the 'risk' of flying, if whenever you crash, you can just repair it instantly with the snap of a finger, instead of having to use your precious time repairing it?
You turned my world upside down :) I was going to start playing it, but now I don't want to :) I'm playing "Space Engineers" now and I thought Dual Universe was even better. But now I see that it's not. Thanks for the info :)
sad thing is the core concept of the game is still good, but then i still say the same about Space Engineers AND Medieval Engineers.... and i wind up playing Avorion more these days, and Minecraft when i find a decent modpack to install
Agree with you on all your points, played hundreds of hours. Its a shame because the game does have soo much potential.
thank you for your wise thoughts
Best argument against socialism I've ever heard.
hmmm... looks like an attempt to attract all of the lazier of the space engineers players who gave it away as the DLCs arrived and broke some of the extremely common place mods.
Literally describes the risk and reward system of Space Engineers
I can already predict comments like "but its only Alpha and everything will change".
Well, most of core problems are engine related so unless they redo the game those issues will stay here forever.
Basic alien raiders. Thats all it would really take. Killing them has a chance to gain a "rare" material. But hey, what do I know?
It’s sad that DU came to this point. When I first discovered it I was optimistic, and excited for the possibilities. I even started creating videos myself, but was time went on and BETA release was nearing I saw the lack of content being a huge issue.
No Mans Sky had huge problems in the beginning, but it did become more enjoyable as decent content was added, NovaQuark are just too slow when it comes to valued updates.
It's not really fair to compare NovaQuark with Hello Games. Hello Games has made A LOT of money with No Man's Sky. It had a very financially successful launch (people hated it at first, but it still sold extremely well because it had a huge media presence and marketing campaign behind it.) whereas NovaQuark is still a small game studio--I'm going to assume that it is struggling to keep afloat because this ambitious project probably bled them dry. I mean at least they aimed high though right? Just sad they couldn't actually deliver and need to resort to charging their players subscription fees to cover those base project development costs.
You can't say, has it turned out how we thought, when it's still in beta!!!!!
Hi there. A "Beta" is defined as a "feature complete product", i.e. what you see in a Beta is the ACTUAL GAME, and the beta usually only serves for polishing and bug fixing. We KNOW that DU is actually not even a beta, but more like an Alpha - but its official designation from the Developers themselves (Novaquark) is "Beta" - so that video is made based on that supposition.
We also KNOW that NQ is RUSHING to get this thing out - they cannot afford to not release it as soon as possible, because their investors are pushing this.
Thus, apart from a minor change here and there - THIS is actually the game on release.
@@sHuRuLuNi you just confirmed the game is in alpha, therefore don't you agree that features that completely alter the games mechanics will come out? what about territory warfare? or asteroids, or gas mining, which all fulfil your idea of a risk and reward system which NQ have confirmed multiple times, does that mean nothing then? are you just going to write the game off as a failure all because NQ is a small indie dev team which cannot, believe it or not, make a triple A sized game at the snap of a finger? your argument makes no sense.
@@spicedruid This is a stupid argument. Even if the Devs considered it to be alpha they would have a plan for what is going to be in the game in the future and make that clear. The Devs obviously don't have a plan for dual universe.
@@jamescharnley2522
???
yes they do!
what about the roadmap, or the multiple features they are constantly talking about adding? They made a 3 part devlog on what they are going to do next, and have pretty much 100% committed to what they said. I don't know what you're talking about.
I don't know if you hang around on the discord much but they talk about it a lot there, devs chat there daily. I suppose if you aren't on the discord it may seem like NQ are being silent but trust me they talk a lot.
The game is like creative Minecraft, you can build some impressive things, but it gets boring really fast.
The game needs to make you feel like an inhabitant of the world rather than just some god.
The whole PVP aspect of the game is also incredibly dull and I think it's the result of an overweight of anti-pvp players.
I think it's really sad, because the game has potential, moreso, the idea has potential. I just wonder when we'll get a fully fleshed MMO space game (that is played in first person with survival aspects).
I am part of the PVP lobby. For us it is enough if we can somehow destroy what others have, that's all we need. We move from new game to new game, tell the developers to add more and more PVP, and then we stay until the next new game is there and we move on. No need for any real gameplay. Just guns are needed.
And that is who developers like NQ listen to ... -.-
@@sHuRuLuNi We make sure that each new game is just about PVP or mainly PVP. Why to have an other, deeper gameplay? We love guns!
I love DU... it is far from perfect but the concept is currently not matched anywhere else. Delivery is poor yes and I agree with many of your points.. but it doesn't have to be all of them... about a year ago.. there was a quest... a number of destroyed ships to find and explore for loot... why can't they do more of these? it wouldn't require any additional tech and could be run by one dev and/or an org.. I desperately want this game to be a success I play for hours every day and have done for over a year... but they do need to make some serious changes ...
It not fun anymore for me, as I enjoyed trading. There's no economy anymore
If you run missions or mine asteroids, which is the fastest way to make money, there is a lot of risk, and there is a lot to spend it on. I get your point that you would like to see more for the PvE'rs in the safe-zone, but even then I doubt all PvE'rs would agree. There is a portion of the DU community that wants no risk, no costly schematics, no taxes, or anything else. They build cities, or role play, or open up ship shops. I think at the end of the day DU is a lot of different games all rolled together, and if you get bored of one of the, then try another. I know I did... Hail Legion!
The risk should of course be other players. Without pvp a sandbox is pointless.
That risk is absolutely there, pirates can catch you bringing ore or goods back to base, anywhere in space. This guy just left it out, your ship can be wrecked and you left with nothing. He ignores that you make money to buy things for your factories or even buy complete and ready to go ships.
This guy phrases things to make you think it's worse than it is.
A key issue with the physics being the way it is in this game is server stability. If they were doing physic checks every lets say 5 frames, the game would simply be a laggy mess with the "universe" aspect of it all. People constantly carving into mountainings and building / fighting or crashing would cause the servers to stutter to a complete stop. They would need to build the infrastructure first and with all the money they seem'd to have wasted already there is no way that's going to happen.
100% agree...i had such high hopes for this game.
Nice! I like all the suggestions. Well even if they did all that, one thing that turns me off the most is subscription fee. There are just way too many good games and online games that don't need a subscription
This game was Dead on Arrival due to their pay model
I first played DU one year ago and all I get there was a dull empty feeling with no reason to continue to play
Everything you said at the end is implemented in Mortal Online 2 - however its isn't a space game or a building sandbox game,
it's a sandbox PVP game with a good risk-reward system ...
The Video is outdated and not realy objectiv, many many things have changed already (The game is in BETA still). The games is making good steps in the right direction at the moment. Unfair to create an hate video because the Beta development is not going fast enough.
A "hate video"? SMH
Even Space Engineers with its barebones survival has this beat... kinda sad
Physics are about the same though lol Flying along then bam! Hit a little pebble floating there and demolishes my ship hahha My brother said he was mining a node there and didnt get that little pebble of a rock. Nah they can keep both of these games lol
I like the idea of the game but you are right about it being boring and lifeless. No wildlife, No alien encounters, weather, flora. I play Empyrion - Galactic Survival, it has many of the things I enjoy but its not MMO.
This game is being released in just four days now. It would be good if you could make a follow-up video to inform us of any changes and updates that may have been added in the last 9 months. Even if it's just a small 10 minute video saying, NO, it's still the bloody same!
Yeah, I was thinking about that. Although I still have health issues with the LS, I will try to do that once it is released.
Empyrion suffered the same fate..... Carebear Anti-Gun lobbies
At least in empyrion there's health, oxygen, stamina, radiation, heat/cold system, plus there's a purpose to explore alien structure : challenge and epic weapon rewards in hidden chests.
That's why i'm still playing it sometimes, and with the Reforged eden mod !
@@DesevPostMortem Its true. Empyrion did a fantastic job at improving and developing its single player experience. And I suppose in some ways this was the longest plan overall. But its lost its PVP Consequence mechanics. Anyways, good points you made.
NEED SURVIVAL MECHANICS ASAP.
When I said back in 2019 that the lack of AVA will kill the game, I meant it, as a long time pvper, I know how social and congruent the pvp community is, we have hanging out spots for duels, we got our own cliques, also called "social circles".
DU does not enable interactions like these. It was dead on arrival the moment they said "we need no avatar versus avatar" or when they said "we want no food in the game".
They lied about 99%, the same percent as their turnover on employees. Noone from the kickstarter video is in the company anymore.
The game is dying, they literally just need to open the game up and let the players actually have fun. Instead of locking everything behind more and more walls. Upon loading the game, sometimes the blue nebula would take a while to load in and I could see the beautiful dark black space, until the blue crap loaded in. I remember when the beta first opened up and there were thousands of players running around, flying around, building small bases. I spent weeks mining, building a small little factory and building a spaceship by myself to go and explore the universe. I flew around to a few planets looking for a nice place to call home. But they were all so boring and lifeless, why should I stay on a planet and start building when there's nothing there and no reason to. The game is supposed to be about factions coming together and rebuilding everything. Where different factions would war for land, but there's no reason to do any of it.
well, good news about the blue nebula stuff, NQ said in their Q&A that they're thinking of turning it down and making it more suttle.
Risk reward system is all fucked up! On one end there is none, on the other end if you want to go for a little pvp battle to spice things up you could easily lost all of your ship to those ugly floating boxes that veteran player build ( no functional reason in this game to build apeling ships for battle).
I keep playing even when they took away the industry from players, at the time I was bit annoyed but agreed, and then I really stop playing when they took away ownership of lands, like you had to be present to be able to keep your lands or something. So If I wanted to go afk for some months all my work would be loss. From that period I realize there's no point in doing anything in the game lol just pure grind. At least in other mmos if you grind long enough you became better at battle and had a sense of proud, here there's no pve so it's pointless and the pvp is simply not apeling. It's dead for me.
i reinstalled the game yesterday to give it another try after not playing for 6+ months. went in completely blind and hopeful and was disappointed with such little change, it feels like they gave up on fixing the core issues, lost any sort of "vision" for the game and now are just band-aiding in lifeless updates now. i was told by a few players you had to delete your character to "redo" the new tutorial nowadays (old tutorial was infinitely replayable) which meant i was stuck with the codex to read for re-learning. players even mentioned that full released is rumored to be "just around the corner". next thing i did is looked online for other people's opinions and here i am. so much for the next generation of MMOs :-(
the only thing i don't really agree with on the video was the criticism with building mechanics. the voxel complexity of this game made it pretty obvious the lack of physics is a limitation by design to me. everything else in the video is spot on though.
When I backed the game I was only looking for a mmo Space Engineers, which it basically is except for the survival mechanics. I do wish there was survival stuff and more things to do. Seems like most of the content like that isn't planned until after release.
"...after release." I really get tired of hearing that line from NQ. We will develop this basic, necessary feature AFTER we develop the game. It's complete hogwash, a way to say we aren't doing that but stall any pushback.
I'd like to see a Breathedge style game but with a more serious survival style.
sounds like Mortal Online in space without the hardcore nature of not being able to learn everything.
You should check out empyrion galactic survival. It has a lot of the stuff that you said was missing from this game. Like you have to eat and have oxygen. And there is a structural integrity system as well. You could have your cockpit be open to space but if you don't have a helmet and oxygen you will die. Empyrion definitely has it's bugs but the devs do update it relatively frequently. In my opinion empyrion is very fun and I have over 100 hours in the game
It's about to launch like tommorow, so I wonder what it'll be like with the full release.
I wanted to check back into this game,but after seeing this video, made me wonder.. What's the point.. of my life!
I wanted to play but I encountered an odd bug that would not even allow me to create an account, much less play. I put in a ticket and 60 days later they replied saying that in some cases this bug effected people. So too bad for me. Over a YEAR later they emailed me asking if I was able to create an account. -_-
That's NQ for you ...
Interesting. I have been wondering something and I need to actually check, but in No Man's Sky, is it possible to fly to a sun? In Elite Dangerous for example, you can fly to a star and if you get too close too it your ship will take heat damage and the modules can become unusable if you don't fly away, this type of thing is important realism. So that is why I'm wondering if its possible to fly near a star in No Man's Sky. I've seen the red, blue and yellow stars on the galaxy map, and on the intro loading screen, but I haven't seen any suns or stars in the areas that you can fly to. That's weird.
Good explanation of Dual Universe. It looks so interesting on the premise, but I now see why it didn't work well.
Nope. You cannot fly to the sun in NMS either. Like in DU the sun does not actually exist (as an object).
Same goes for SE but ED is in league of its own when it comes to realism.
Hey. I recognise that sign. I was just out there and purchased the Maya(?) BP. Sadly, with the changes in this last patch, I'm more then likely never going to build that ship. At this point, I'm ready to call it quits as well. Taxation is theft, even in a game. It turns us into slaves to ta clock, pay those 'taxes' or you quickly find out who owns your territory. I've gone from making 10-30mil a day, to now harvesting table scraps off the ground. No longer will I land on a beach just to watch the sun set on that planet. I have Star Citizen installed as well, (original backer), time to see what changes they have made in the year or so I haven't played.
That's exactly what i did.. sadly.. but i'm not looking back..
All great points, and you say them much more eloquently than I do. Anymore I just see it as a hot pile of garbage with a bleak future, or a lack thereof.
Space Engineers seems much more developed, but it still had a similar problem. Just not enough compelling PvE.
@Achronic Deth is that a joke?
I didn't even remembered this gsme anymore lol, i almost invedted on it, but after this video in happy i totally forgot about it lol, i mean, i got bored watching the video, so i totally get your point of just not being fun at all playing in God mode
English??
@@wolfedits5645 Americanish??
Welcome to empyrion it got all u want and more =)
It was realy fun in pre-alpha, everything was new and I was dreaming of big cities, gigantic ships and great battles.
Now it's hard to decide if I still want to dream or face reality, that I still haven't seen a big city or a gigantic ship flying around. Nor have I seen adventure, exept for the first time i went to space with a voxel lump that was my ship.
All I have seen was empty lands and junkyards with hundrets of ships lying around and noone there to fly them.
Maybe I only went to the wrong places but I haven't seen a trace of civilisation yet.
It has been a long time since I have played, but I would love to have a small fuelstation in orbit that looks like a mixture of a diner and an old gasstation sitting on a chunk of dirt, like it was ripped out of the ground. And people from around the galaxy would come by and have a snack while their ships get refueled.
That really would make me happy...I guess I'm still dreaming.
looks like it became a fancy Roblox
Played for a few months 2 years ago. Hunting or was OK, removing hand mining is stupid. Designing ships was amazing. Having to fly them with a keyboard was game breaking. You don't want physics, it let's you design fantastic structures. I will sub for 6 months today, just because I have nothing else to play and escape my work from home routine.
This game and NMS both suffer from a lack of gravity and physics.
I was looking at this game, and then they made a bunch of choices I did not like, then I turned to Starbase, which fell more into line with what I wanted, but that game has recently been disappointing as well... The search for my perfect space game continues.
I really love space engineers whole deal but it has too many technical issues to be like Minecraft where u can build and infinite amount of cool shit on a fun server.