SMALL EDIT: Melee units won't path to Decoy IF its in fickle places I forgot to add this with the infestation because they are all melee attackers BUT some melee attackers in grineer and corpus will still try to path to special spot decoys (Probably bugged/inconsistencies) So before anyone asks, yes. I will have the full Loki retrospective out later this year, its a huge project I've been working on in the background each month and its taken a lot of time as I can't commit full time to it with other videos in between. So far I'm only done 2012 - 2014, but when its near completion I will have an announcement about it this year. Thank you for your patience. Thank you Nev for the help with this video, be sure to check out his channel here: www.youtube.com/@nev546
9:20 I wanna better explain why distance is so important, since I realize that I did a pretty bad job explaining that imo. Enemy pathing and enemy damage dealing are one in the same, an enemy cannot deal damage to you if it is unable to path to where you are. Equally, enemy aggro and enemy distance are one in the same because in order for an enemy to determine what it wants to shoot at, it needs to check for how valuable the thing it wants to shoot is, and also determine whether or not it makes sense to get to the target compared to another. Each target basically has a gigantic radius around it, where it's "pathing value" will slowly diminish over range. In the same vein, each aggro level will also have a "targeting value" with a similar radius, though the "targeting value" is actually slightly higher for non-melee units. The bigger your target's starting value is, the bigger it's number will be at larger ranges, and this is why decoy is so powerful, and also why targets will shoot at you whilst pathing to the defense objective. Basically, "aggro" is the combination of distance value + targeting value (where both values are stronger the closer you are) and decoy just has the biggest starting values for both of these things, making it the highest priority target so long as you are not so close that your aggro generation spikes too high. The closer the enemies can get to the decoy, the less likely they are to switch to targeting you, which is why they can basically be walked up on and will entirely ignore you until you're too close. Every target also has a completely different falloff formula as well, a warframe's maximum aggro generation actually falls off after 5m, where they sharply decrease to a "medium" aggro generation, and that value diminishes linearly as you would expect; a defense target's aggro generation will always stay the same at all ranges, and actually has the biggest range of any target, able to be seen by the enemies across an entire map. Loki's decoy has a value higher than every other target (with the exception of warframes within 5m) for targeting value specifically, but it's pathing value is actually the same as a defense target but with a different rage falloff (it can't be seen across the entire map), which is why sometimes the enemies will still path to a defense target despite wanting to target the decoy. (example 13:25) The reason disarming the enemies makes them switch priority to the decoy actually has to do with the fact that you have reset their target entirely when disarming them, they now check to see what the best target to attack is since they lost their old one, and when they check, they see that the decoy now has the same pathing value and a higher targeting value, so they go attack it instead of the defense obj. Fun fact going invis removes your target value part of the aggro generation and silencing weapons removes the pathing value part of the aggro. Thankfully, there are caveats to this, such as enemies detecting corpses of their friends, but there are honestly more things to talk about like enemy "memory" and we're getting too technical already. Pathing value also changes based on how "accessible" it is. If the enemies don't think that they can get to an area, then it's pathing value is automatically set to 0, and the enemies will ignore the target value of something that they cannot path to unless they can shoot at it, which is why the decoy on infested can sometimes feel like it's "not working" when placed on elevation. Pathing value is just telling the AI how much they want to be in a place, if they ultimately can't get to the place, then they stop wanting it entirely, and instead want to be in a new place where they can attack something. This is why disarming an enemy is honestly overpowered, changing their AI to melee makes it so that pathing and targeting value are now the same, and melee units will basically swap off of what they are attacking (unless it's a warframe within 5m) to instead focus on the decoy regardless of what it is. back to 9:20, what I was trying to say is that pathing to where you can get LOS is less valuable to the AI then pathing directly to the target, because the enemy only cares about the distance value of any position, and not the target value when it comes to pathing specifically. The enemy has a target with has a higher priority, but since it cannot shoot at the target it paths to where it is closer to the target, instead of pathing to where it can shoot the target. Hopefully this is a better explanation, honestly Nova Umbral did a bang up job with this one, you should send this video to triburos on twitter :) TL;DR: "Pathing value" and "targeting value" together are what make "aggro value." Enemies prioritize getting close to a target instead of getting to a place where they can shoot a target if they have a target with a higher "targeting value" and are trying to path to it at the same time because they can't see it. Enemies with melee combine pathing and targeting value into the same thing, so if an enemy cannot path directly to the target they will ignore it. Invisibility removes targeting value, silenced weapons remove pathing value, enemies have memory of what they are currently targeting but they can forgor if you do some things like disarm or go invis.
Yeah i disagree. Lokis toolkit is nice when it works but it usually does not. After years of playing him i think hes one of the weakest warframes ever made. Entirely reliant on good weapons because he has no means of killing without them. His only use is for cloak. And even then his cloak is inferior to Ivara, slightly better than Ash. Ash and Ivara arent weak ass eunich frames like loki is.
Man, this is why I adore this channel. You put a spotlight on so many frames that are often overlooked or ignored, show how incredible they are, AND you recommend other channels and TH-camrs who go way more into depth with all these synergies. Seriously, I never would have fallen in love with Rhino, Limbo, or Loki if you didn’t have these videos up for them. Keep ‘em coming, I want more!
@@kinsan89I Haven't been playing Gara much lately and you can pretty much dismiss that tierlist back in 2023. I will have a new opinion on her in the future but for the time being my thoughts on her is TBD
0:55 "he gives me the same vibes as baruuk" while baruuk is an almost invincible murder machine that punch people like they're bags of air. He's a newbie for sure
@@provaricus627 he's designed to be invincible and punch/slash enemies to death. Before we did it with the 8x invis multiplier, now we do it with invincibility. This is how loki is generally played. He has a ton of utility, sure. But so does Baruuk. They still play the same.
@@evinickbruggen6407 tribs' old loki and limbo guides are some of the best guides out there, they highlight the fundamentals in a simplistic way that makes sense to the average player, whilst being nuanced and descript enough for people to get the deeper underlying mechanics. His guides are a large part of how I teach both limbo and loki, I don't think there are very many good guides on yt, but considering how far the game has come and how much has changed, those two guides still holding up to this day is a testament to how good they are, even if some things are outdated by now. Nova did a fantastic job explaining loki in the modern era, and we can only hope that trib would be proud, he's a legend in the community for a reason
It’s funny too, because trib even said that Loki is hyper-focused on a dead meta, that being CC, and was doomed to fail in the long run. Even Trib thinks Loki is going to die and these QOL changes won’t help at all.
Depends on how you want to play him. The duration is pretty short and it can get annoying safeguard switching every time, so yeah I'd personally use PSF 100%.
6:10 YES YES YES I have been banging on about this for over 12 months to anyone and everyone - you are finally the first major WF TH-camr to cover this so that it can begin to get the awareness that it needs. I can tell you've read my findings listed on the Wiki too. Safeguard Switch is the 'strongest' type of invulnerability in the game since nothing can dispel it, and it's also one of the easiest to upkeep requiring only 1 button press. I'm glad you've enjoyed this fresh breath of life into Loki's playstyle. My Tenno mission is now complete.
Reducing weapon noise by 100% is imperative ( 17:45 ) , particularly at higher levels where enemy accuracy, especially among the Grineer, but to a lesser extent with the Corpus, coupled with the exponential increase in damage, that stray bullets may and will snipe you across the room.
Not at all. If you get sniped, you still have shield gate and press 5 to go into operator. The enemies don't actually target you while in invis, they just run to your position in a straight line -> you can shoot them in the head while they do.
TBH you're the pretty much only warframe TH-camr I can stand these days. People just don't know how to use their brains, while you actually use critical thinking skills to figure out how to perceived trash to treasure. Good work as usual
What the other guys said plus aznvasionsplays, he's the best build creator imo if you just want pure information, and he does lots of stuff outside the meta as well. He had an inaros ability only build with like 100kpm iirc lol.
It's just the way warframe community functions. What big youtubers say often dictates what many people use in game (which is not usually their fault, they are sharing their own experience, which then gets spread by word of mouth (a.k.a. qna chat, or people just googling "what's x best warframe for y activity" or similar stuff like that.)).They are spreading their opinion, which their viewers can easily mistake for pure facts. It's easy to be wrong about something, it's way harder to admit your faults and come from a fresh perspective, and this is a reminder to sometimes step back and just try things. Get your information from multiple sources if you do want advice, guidance is often times good, but don't over rely on a single person telling you what to do - the game is made to have your own fun and experiment, and people often forget that and think they are afraid to be in the "wrong" for doing something that does not line up with the current "meta".
It's honestly amazing when you want to make plat. "Get this weapon it's amazing" suddenly rivens jump up by 300% "I use this mod to get more damage" now people are spamming in trade chat for it.
Reason why *this video* should also be taken with a grain of salt, as well. Loki could still use a buff to his power and quality of life, regardless of how much this video is putting him on a pedestal.
Loki is the best frame for opening most rivens. Got his shards build for melee, 1) Mainly use Endless lullaby and safeguard switch while in public games 71second sleep, 127m teleport range with 19 second invincibility, 77 sec decoy to heard everything into a pile. 2) For open worlds I use a sniper build with deadeye, arcane momentum, hushed inviz, and Calm & Frenzy 140m sleep distance 14m radius, 210m teleport range. Sharp shooter on the sniper rifle. If public swap color to day for the damage vulnerability debuff instead. 3) Eclipse build for this tab, over 800% damage bonus with arcane aracne active, wich is in every build. 4) A wall latch build with is every mod that says wall latch, + duration mods just for doing riven challenges like 14 headshots in a row in 1 wall latch. The best part about platform frames is you can do whatever you want with them, if you want to use theorm arcanes and fuck around you can just do that and not care.
1:22 Wait! I know this guy... Isn't that this lime-green Inaros Main? :P But jokes aside, this was a very informative and well crafted video. Shoutouts to both, you and Nev for the great work. I learned a lot ❤
Look, I know this video isn't meant to clown on people in the intro but I genuinely have to ask... 0:50 What the actual fuck is this list??? Khora and Garuda NOT in S tier? Excal and Frost higher than B? Baruuk in *_FUCKING F TIER???_* Is this man playing the same game I am?
Loki is probably my most utilised frames in defence, spy and lich hunts, since disarm speeds up the waves with the influx of melee units, decoy and switch teleport bypasses the spy lasers and liches rely on line of sight so you can go invisible and even thought there are many frames that do the objectives much faster or more efficient but he definitely has the versatility of breaking the AI in the game.
The thing with Loki is: you have to be VERY creative with this frame. I've had a lot of fun playing with Loki, it is indeed a meme frame but way funnier than the rest. Remember, be creative, his role is being a troll, not a tank, go with efficiency and use Energy Nexus instead of flow, you will never run out of energy again, put some range to disarm more enemies, bombard em while in the wall and remember to cast decoy or disarm before the invisibility timer runs out. Of course this is in case of a pre-organized squad, if you are going public you might have to play along with some nuke frames which is why Loki seems outdated.
main issue is that enemy death > crowd control. Loki is exclusively a “play me for fun” frame since there is no content hard enough to warrant his kit. 🥲
Even the dps bros queen saryn can get G checked easily when levels reach a certain threshold but Loki can just make all content easy if you're not fucking stupid which a lot of these dps preachers are
And please note this is coming from a Mesa main. Loki is a frame that is extremely good but people say is bad purely because he's not flashy. He's effectiveness over sheer flash and damage
Nev explaining the ai explains how you end up having grineer on hydron shooting through the wall on the bottom floor instead of going through the doorways, as well as shooting up at the bottom of the platform trying to hit it.
You should have seen the full call between me and nova, I do so much yapping lmao, but distance is one of the most important factors for enemy pathing and it's one of those gameplay elements that most players just forget about. If a target has to choose between a low priority target that's 5m away or a high priority target that's 50m away, the low priority target will get shot at! This is fundamental, and when you start paying attention to it, you can start breaking the game, since it applies to everything. What makes loki's decoy so broken is that you can change the *distance* between a high priority target and the enemies, effectively giving you full control over the enemy pathing and thus making a mission easier for your team
@@nev546 unfortunately I did move from one squishy boy (Loki) to another squishy boy (limbo) but if I ever go back to my original golden sneaker this is stuff I'll try to remember
One thing i wish everyone understood is that no warframe is bad if you use it right. Yes, there are some that do certain things better in a lot of ways, but no warframe is useless
Yeah often times people end up misunderstanding each other when one is rating things in terms of their strength relative to the best in class whereas the other is rating them in a vacuum (i.e. ignoring alternatives and just looking at what it does)
I think Loki is going to be in the same position as limbo you're going to have people just using him for invisibility and then you're going to have those who understand decoy
LOKI MASTER RACE!! Oh God it feels so ridiculously nostalgic - and sad, (yet full of fond memories) - to say it. Man how time flies by.. PS! Thumbs up for the awesome, awesome video.
Yeah I love when people try to be contrarians and title the videos like this, you are absolutely right, if they really believe in that then lets nerf him to see the usage plummit even more since he is "so OP"
don’t get me wrong, i think the video is great and it genuinely makes me want to get him back out of the fridge and see if i can make him work. but that’s the key part. you can make him work. he’ll never be op unless he or the game changes. the title is nonsense.@@nbassasin8092
Y'know, I might actually try to get into loki. First limbo, and now this. I love seeing frames with a bad rep get turned around with a bit of exploitation and craftsmanship. I love that these frames have such a unique and fun way of operating in game. It makes them seem extremely fun and interesting to use instead of "press 4 to win". I thank you very much for these videos. You have become one of my all time favorite warframe content creators
Haven't seen the vid yet, but I can consider myself as a loki enjoyer. He is really good controlling enemies, I use him for defense, rescue, survival, etc.
Loki Prime main sez I'm team support but I can solo just fine. It's all in knowing what you got and using it right. I could use decoys and switch more but usually I don't need to. Invis & Irradiating Disarm will do 90% of getting them ready for my Zaw to end them.
The aggro for decoy seems to be the same as the aggro for enemies under Chaos. With that power they prioritze the closest thing they see as a threat, which in most cases ends up being other enemies. But since enemies die and move it's more erratic where with decoy you have much more control
@@NovaUmbral definitely one of the most underrated and overlooked parts of Chaos that made Nyx one of my all-time favorites. I even have the statue they sold of her
Mind Control with the Decoy is best setup. you have to do Decoy First, but will give the Mind control will teleport with you and not wander. and lets you roam. and also fight back with huge scaling in damage due to the same mechanic of scaling for the first few seconds of absorbed damage
Loki was my first frame. I hated him so much as I didn’t know how to play the game. Eventually, I got better and Loki became one of my favorites at that time. Then his prime was announced. First time I genuinely went on a grind for any prime. He will forever be an OG that I seldom play.
One of the few people who still use Loki. I didn't know that his augment can give immunity. I like using his 4th with spectrorage to clump them together
It was days ago when I was wondering which low-tier Warframes do not deserve the tier they're put in by meta players and this vid definitely gave me an answer. I was trying to find an accessible frame for certain solo SP missions like Defense and being able to learn that Loki's decoy has that much potential is very helpful. Always love an educational vid
I honestly never understood all the hate for Loki. Practically invisible forever, especially with Energy Nexus. Capable of 20+ seconds of invincibility to allies, or 10+ seconds of invincibility to himself. He's able to shut off AI, or with a ton of range make a bunch of enemies rush away from an objective to a decoy. I prefer him for level-cap than most other frames because he can do it on almost any mission.
In terms of pure damage, I can accept if he's a low tier But survivability and niche wise, he's one of the top tier for sure. A loki main here Very happy I discovered this video, especially the usage of safeguard switch and decoy
I really like loki and use him as a long range supressor. Subsumed switch teleport with silence from banshee and I can shut down eximus abilities while disarming normal enemies. Add in decoy's status augment and invisibility and I can make any sp mission or eximus stronghold missions a cake walk.
I believe a few years ago, Triburos even mentioned Loki's decoy mechanics. Like people underestimate his kit. My only gripe, which DE already fixing, was specifically his decoy being so squishy. That's why I'm excited for the QoL it's getting. He still by far my beloved warframe.
Idc if Loki isn't meta. He's FUN, and that's what matters most to me personally. I can't clear rooms with him by spamming 1 and 4 like Saryn, but I can make everyone slap each other while I shred them
The way you do these videos.. imma have to hire you to do my obituary so you can explain how all of my flaws are actually just misunderstandings and I'm actually a pretty cool guy.
VERY EASY FIX: just a change in the AI and a change in Loki's decoy. The was AI works now is to get as close to you as posible to atack and then atack. The change to AI needs to be : determin if the enemie npc is ranged or meele, in ranged after it moves close and after it tryes to atack ( succesfull or not), tell that npc to move to a randome location where the target is stil targetable while still atacking the target .If succesfull, repete the last action. If during the movement it fails to have line of sight, rest from the top, from the trying to get close and atack. The change to Loki: add to the decoys ability the efect of canceling " the change to AI". The AI change not only makes sence as npcs are fighting killings machine ( the warframes) so they should want to make the players job as dificult as posible, it also bringues in to picture more value to all cc and wall ability as the npcs become more dificult to target with abilitys, so the warframes with cc bringue more sinergy / utility to the party. Loki's change also makes the npcs more targetable.
I didn't know the power of decoy and his teleport until now. The thing about warframe was about the CC, which Loki had the disarm and the decoy (people even used decoy for eidolons years ago) and the problem arises when the overguard was introduced to diminish the power of CC just a lil bit. But with late patches, more eximus units were added to the difficulty, right now, archimidean is f up with eximus (losing the purposes of having eximus in the first place) And the problem scale when more damage type warframe arosed like Voruna, Dagath, Dante (why cc when you can just one shot them) So Loki is not bad, is just his role of cc, dosarm, distract has been neglected due to the new mechanics. The now the best mechanic worth mention is the decoy and switch as you said
Ok I have never heard of Loki setups like this before (not a super knowledgeable player for a lot of frames) but I always wanted to play Loki because he seems so cool and I like playing invis. My time has come. I will now be Loki player
Loki is anything but overpowered in my experience. Since starting in 2017 I've never seen a loki outperform anything in any situation. My 2 friends that play this game have the same experience with him. A truly underwhelming frame
so on my loki, i run 328% power strength using two tauforged reds, and 262% duration using molt efficiency, with pillage subsumed over his radial disarm. 328% strength is enough to 100% armor strip in one cast using corrosive projection, and pillage scales its range based on duration, plus the shield regen is great for shield gating. Arcane energize and primed flow for efficiency, and damage decoy and safeguard switch for invincibility memes. It's been pretty fun!
Ive been so tired of people shitting on loki, and safeguard switch, for so long. People act like im a clown for thinking he's fucking great. Thank you for reinforcing that *they* are in fact, the clowns. The upcoming changes are fucking great for him and will make him a crowd control and multiple layer safety net demon. The irl friends ive shown loki to have all come back like, wait, loki is amazing. And im like, yep, you just cant listen to the loud idiots.
1. UPDATE: muzzle flash can no longer blind through overguard 2. Did bro not even talk about the new damage decoy augment? Where it makes an enemy a decoy and does scaling dmg to anything shooting at it?
This just made me want to get out my free loki prime that I got with the New War livestream. All I need is to know where to find the Safeguard stuff and I'll be having fun playing an S tier frame in no time
I rate him the same as rhino because of their nature - they can do a few things but it's all a pretty straight forward plan once you understand how it works
Loki is indubitably a sleeper pick. Imagine going against against him in pvp with his augments. He can remain silent using any weapon and can strip you of your weapon and inflict confuse. Not only can you not hear or see Loki but now you just have a melee weapon and you’re forcefully confused by a spell, it’s terrifying.
@@nbassasin8092 I’m simply highlighting the value in abilities that disarm hordes of level 9999 leveling them to only have melee and attack each other in addition to using extremely noisy room clearing armaments yet to the ai your presence goes unnoticed - give it a try
@@MrDiscreet100 no thank you, Im not out here playing for 5 hours just to prove that the Warframe is only getting good/better than others then By that point Ive completed hundreds of other things in warframe with other more comfortable frames, and more importantly, actually had fun. but by all means, if level cap is what you find relevant, then yes, Loki is "sleeper pick", although Ash is still outpreforming him by MILES and also no, he is not sleepr even then, because in the level cap community Loki is higly regarded as very comfy pick, so again, you are wrong, because by the standards youve set Loki is not underrated, people do use him, find any level cap commenting video and youll see that he is not slept on and by the standards Ive set, he is just bad/outdated so he is still not sleeper because people dont use him for a reason
The issue I see with this is investment, consistency, and output. For investment, you need to learn and understand the in-depth mechanics/their interactions and specific spots on a given tile set almost like you're doing valorant lineups. Even when you've done so, there's still the chance that a random enemy will get LOS and nuke the decoy if you're not using banish. And speaking of banish, it often seems like the worst frames are the ones that need help surviving or achieving a certain goal. Nourish and Roar are the most popular subsumes mostly because they are the best for if you simply want to take a not good ability on a frame and swap it out for a good buff you can set and forget. So loki either doesn't get that buff or has to finagle finnicky mechanics. And all of this... for something comparable to what so many frames get with one or two buttons. Rev 2, Gara 2, Citrine 2, (Holy shit there's a lot of defense abilities on 2...) Wisp 1+3, Harrow 1, Styanax 4 w/aug, etc. You invest so much to reach that level, I honestly don't think he's that great. Wouldn't give him D, but I can understand a C or *maybe* a B.
on Sortie defense which is moving defense target, you can switch teleport that to make invulnerable all the time, Same on Plains edilion defense drone, you can switch them and it's became invulnerable
The most C-tier frame is Nehza. I spent time farming that frame and never use it. I've had Loki mastered for months and he's always solid, if underwhelming.
Im glad that people have found ways to enjoy playing loki but calling any of these builds S tier feels a little disingenuous. They're incredibly gimmicky and require too much set up to work in most end game missions imo. It's going to do almost nothing outside of a solo mission or a party of friends because everyone else will just draw aggro and outdamage you. And on top of that, while yes decoy is meant to draw aggro, I don't think completely turning off enemy AI is intended by DE. This feels like something they'd end up fixing if a big enough spotlight was shown on it.
SMALL EDIT: Melee units won't path to Decoy IF its in fickle places I forgot to add this with the infestation because they are all melee attackers BUT some melee attackers in grineer and corpus will still try to path to special spot decoys (Probably bugged/inconsistencies)
So before anyone asks, yes. I will have the full Loki retrospective out later this year, its a huge project I've been working on in the background each month and its taken a lot of time as I can't commit full time to it with other videos in between. So far I'm only done 2012 - 2014, but when its near completion I will have an announcement about it this year. Thank you for your patience.
Thank you Nev for the help with this video, be sure to check out his channel here: www.youtube.com/@nev546
Loki sucks
9:20 I wanna better explain why distance is so important, since I realize that I did a pretty bad job explaining that imo. Enemy pathing and enemy damage dealing are one in the same, an enemy cannot deal damage to you if it is unable to path to where you are. Equally, enemy aggro and enemy distance are one in the same because in order for an enemy to determine what it wants to shoot at, it needs to check for how valuable the thing it wants to shoot is, and also determine whether or not it makes sense to get to the target compared to another.
Each target basically has a gigantic radius around it, where it's "pathing value" will slowly diminish over range. In the same vein, each aggro level will also have a "targeting value" with a similar radius, though the "targeting value" is actually slightly higher for non-melee units. The bigger your target's starting value is, the bigger it's number will be at larger ranges, and this is why decoy is so powerful, and also why targets will shoot at you whilst pathing to the defense objective.
Basically, "aggro" is the combination of distance value + targeting value (where both values are stronger the closer you are) and decoy just has the biggest starting values for both of these things, making it the highest priority target so long as you are not so close that your aggro generation spikes too high. The closer the enemies can get to the decoy, the less likely they are to switch to targeting you, which is why they can basically be walked up on and will entirely ignore you until you're too close. Every target also has a completely different falloff formula as well, a warframe's maximum aggro generation actually falls off after 5m, where they sharply decrease to a "medium" aggro generation, and that value diminishes linearly as you would expect; a defense target's aggro generation will always stay the same at all ranges, and actually has the biggest range of any target, able to be seen by the enemies across an entire map. Loki's decoy has a value higher than every other target (with the exception of warframes within 5m) for targeting value specifically, but it's pathing value is actually the same as a defense target but with a different rage falloff (it can't be seen across the entire map), which is why sometimes the enemies will still path to a defense target despite wanting to target the decoy. (example 13:25) The reason disarming the enemies makes them switch priority to the decoy actually has to do with the fact that you have reset their target entirely when disarming them, they now check to see what the best target to attack is since they lost their old one, and when they check, they see that the decoy now has the same pathing value and a higher targeting value, so they go attack it instead of the defense obj.
Fun fact going invis removes your target value part of the aggro generation and silencing weapons removes the pathing value part of the aggro. Thankfully, there are caveats to this, such as enemies detecting corpses of their friends, but there are honestly more things to talk about like enemy "memory" and we're getting too technical already.
Pathing value also changes based on how "accessible" it is. If the enemies don't think that they can get to an area, then it's pathing value is automatically set to 0, and the enemies will ignore the target value of something that they cannot path to unless they can shoot at it, which is why the decoy on infested can sometimes feel like it's "not working" when placed on elevation. Pathing value is just telling the AI how much they want to be in a place, if they ultimately can't get to the place, then they stop wanting it entirely, and instead want to be in a new place where they can attack something. This is why disarming an enemy is honestly overpowered, changing their AI to melee makes it so that pathing and targeting value are now the same, and melee units will basically swap off of what they are attacking (unless it's a warframe within 5m) to instead focus on the decoy regardless of what it is.
back to 9:20, what I was trying to say is that pathing to where you can get LOS is less valuable to the AI then pathing directly to the target, because the enemy only cares about the distance value of any position, and not the target value when it comes to pathing specifically. The enemy has a target with has a higher priority, but since it cannot shoot at the target it paths to where it is closer to the target, instead of pathing to where it can shoot the target. Hopefully this is a better explanation, honestly Nova Umbral did a bang up job with this one, you should send this video to triburos on twitter :)
TL;DR: "Pathing value" and "targeting value" together are what make "aggro value." Enemies prioritize getting close to a target instead of getting to a place where they can shoot a target if they have a target with a higher "targeting value" and are trying to path to it at the same time because they can't see it. Enemies with melee combine pathing and targeting value into the same thing, so if an enemy cannot path directly to the target they will ignore it. Invisibility removes targeting value, silenced weapons remove pathing value, enemies have memory of what they are currently targeting but they can forgor if you do some things like disarm or go invis.
@@piplupxpp ur mom
decoy dosent count as ally i cant get that effect with decoy
Yeah i disagree. Lokis toolkit is nice when it works but it usually does not. After years of playing him i think hes one of the weakest warframes ever made. Entirely reliant on good weapons because he has no means of killing without them. His only use is for cloak. And even then his cloak is inferior to Ivara, slightly better than Ash.
Ash and Ivara arent weak ass eunich frames like loki is.
Missed the chance to name the title "lowkey overpowered"
Edited: nvm that works now
You disappointed me by not going all the way you coward "loki overpowered"😂
What a missed opportunity. He has to change it to this when he sees it
CHANGE ITTTTTTTTTTTT
He removed the "is", I guess that works too
@@zengp218he put it back
I like Loki because you can be a security camera with a gun taped on
How does this comment not have more likes? 😂
It's called a turret.
@Uthael_Kileanea I'm sure your a blast to be around
based wall latch duration enjoyer
Man, this is why I adore this channel.
You put a spotlight on so many frames that are often overlooked or ignored, show how incredible they are, AND you recommend other channels and TH-camrs who go way more into depth with all these synergies.
Seriously, I never would have fallen in love with Rhino, Limbo, or Loki if you didn’t have these videos up for them.
Keep ‘em coming, I want more!
And yet even he overlooks Gara lol
@@kinsan89I Haven't been playing Gara much lately and you can pretty much dismiss that tierlist back in 2023. I will have a new opinion on her in the future but for the time being my thoughts on her is TBD
@@NovaUmbral she's my #1 frame, I'm just being a crybaby lmao
0:55 "he gives me the same vibes as baruuk" while baruuk is an almost invincible murder machine that punch people like they're bags of air. He's a newbie for sure
i want what he's smoking.
Loki is actually invincible. Without invis.
So with the stealth multiplier for melee, yes. Baruuk vibes.
Vibes as in design and general play. He avoids damage, disarms enemies and turns their attention away.
@@provaricus627 he's designed to be invincible and punch/slash enemies to death. Before we did it with the 8x invis multiplier, now we do it with invincibility. This is how loki is generally played. He has a ton of utility, sure. But so does Baruuk. They still play the same.
There's a big difference between baruuk and loki though. Desert wind can do way more than any melee weapon loki could use
Nev and Nova: “Loki is OP”
*Trib has awoken*
The funny thing is he even touches on some of these points in his Loki build guide. Trib was actually the reason I clicked on this video.
well funny meme man is actually a pretty competent loki player his loki build is still relevant to this day
@@evinickbruggen6407 tribs' old loki and limbo guides are some of the best guides out there, they highlight the fundamentals in a simplistic way that makes sense to the average player, whilst being nuanced and descript enough for people to get the deeper underlying mechanics. His guides are a large part of how I teach both limbo and loki, I don't think there are very many good guides on yt, but considering how far the game has come and how much has changed, those two guides still holding up to this day is a testament to how good they are, even if some things are outdated by now. Nova did a fantastic job explaining loki in the modern era, and we can only hope that trib would be proud, he's a legend in the community for a reason
he just posted a new vid and its the opposite of this video
It’s funny too, because trib even said that Loki is hyper-focused on a dead meta, that being CC, and was doomed to fail in the long run. Even Trib thinks Loki is going to die and these QOL changes won’t help at all.
So this is what Rebb meant when she said "Skill Issue" when responding to people saying Loki was bad.
"you dont need psf on loki" knightmere frame is malding rn
knightmare frame on his way to make a build that only consists of psf
Depends on how you want to play him. The duration is pretty short and it can get annoying safeguard switching every time, so yeah I'd personally use PSF 100%.
Gravity rush pfp out in the wild.
@@nebulastar3087 yup love that game
6:10 YES YES YES I have been banging on about this for over 12 months to anyone and everyone - you are finally the first major WF TH-camr to cover this so that it can begin to get the awareness that it needs. I can tell you've read my findings listed on the Wiki too. Safeguard Switch is the 'strongest' type of invulnerability in the game since nothing can dispel it, and it's also one of the easiest to upkeep requiring only 1 button press. I'm glad you've enjoyed this fresh breath of life into Loki's playstyle. My Tenno mission is now complete.
Loki was my first Warframe, and hold a special place in my heart. ♥
Was beating it and your vid came up and I accidentally busted to your video 😬😬 my bad
You good, dw
chief what?
What
"Was beating it"
*what*
Get him OUTTA here!
Glad to see I'm not the only one aware of Loki's capabilities.
Still a shitframe
Reducing weapon noise by 100% is imperative ( 17:45 ) , particularly at higher levels where enemy accuracy, especially among the Grineer, but to a lesser extent with the Corpus, coupled with the exponential increase in damage, that stray bullets may and will snipe you across the room.
Not at all. If you get sniped, you still have shield gate and press 5 to go into operator. The enemies don't actually target you while in invis, they just run to your position in a straight line -> you can shoot them in the head while they do.
TBH you're the pretty much only warframe TH-camr I can stand these days. People just don't know how to use their brains, while you actually use critical thinking skills to figure out how to perceived trash to treasure. Good work as usual
I recommend you check out MCGamerCZ, his content as of late has been focused on taking underused/old weapons and trying to make them SP viable
MrWarframe Guy as well, he's really good at making unconventional builds work.
What the other guys said plus aznvasionsplays, he's the best build creator imo if you just want pure information, and he does lots of stuff outside the meta as well. He had an inaros ability only build with like 100kpm iirc lol.
Shows how little you use yours.
@@dgalloway107that just doesn’t make sense but go off
Never forget, you can safeguard switch with enemy corpses.
It's just the way warframe community functions. What big youtubers say often dictates what many people use in game (which is not usually their fault, they are sharing their own experience, which then gets spread by word of mouth (a.k.a. qna chat, or people just googling "what's x best warframe for y activity" or similar stuff like that.)).They are spreading their opinion, which their viewers can easily mistake for pure facts. It's easy to be wrong about something, it's way harder to admit your faults and come from a fresh perspective, and this is a reminder to sometimes step back and just try things. Get your information from multiple sources if you do want advice, guidance is often times good, but don't over rely on a single person telling you what to do - the game is made to have your own fun and experiment, and people often forget that and think they are afraid to be in the "wrong" for doing something that does not line up with the current "meta".
It's honestly amazing when you want to make plat. "Get this weapon it's amazing" suddenly rivens jump up by 300% "I use this mod to get more damage" now people are spamming in trade chat for it.
Reason why *this video* should also be taken with a grain of salt, as well. Loki could still use a buff to his power and quality of life, regardless of how much this video is putting him on a pedestal.
Rachet and clank song in the beginning is a banger
checkmate checkmate checkmate checkmate
You checkmate your mother with that mouth?!
@@NovaUmbralwhat if he checkmates you’re mother with that mouth?
……………checkmate😂
Loki is trash checkmate
Loki is the best frame for opening most rivens.
Got his shards build for melee,
1) Mainly use Endless lullaby and safeguard switch while in public games 71second sleep, 127m teleport range with 19 second invincibility, 77 sec decoy to heard everything into a pile.
2) For open worlds I use a sniper build with deadeye, arcane momentum, hushed inviz, and Calm & Frenzy 140m sleep distance 14m radius, 210m teleport range. Sharp shooter on the sniper rifle. If public swap color to day for the damage vulnerability debuff instead.
3) Eclipse build for this tab, over 800% damage bonus with arcane aracne active, wich is in every build.
4) A wall latch build with is every mod that says wall latch, + duration mods just for doing riven challenges like 14 headshots in a row in 1 wall latch.
The best part about platform frames is you can do whatever you want with them, if you want to use theorm arcanes and fuck around you can just do that and not care.
This makes me super super happy, finally someone cool is covering this, Ive loved my loki for a long time and now hes getting the coverage he deserves
I think Loki is probably one of the few frames that don't have any offensive abilities, but how he can be used is interesting, especially his decoy.
1:22 Wait! I know this guy... Isn't that this lime-green Inaros Main? :P
But jokes aside, this was a very informative and well crafted video. Shoutouts to both, you and Nev for the great work. I learned a lot ❤
Look, I know this video isn't meant to clown on people in the intro but I genuinely have to ask...
0:50 What the actual fuck is this list??? Khora and Garuda NOT in S tier? Excal and Frost higher than B? Baruuk in *_FUCKING F TIER???_* Is this man playing the same game I am?
I watch his stream once he’s genuinely trash
frost is good tho
Frost with Icy Avalanche and Biting Frost makes SP a breeze - what do you mean?
Also limbo and lavos being c tier when played right they're a force of nature is absurd
@@kicsidudafrost is just Gara but infinitely worse
Loki is my next to max out so this is perfect timing for this video! Thank you!
Loki is probably my most utilised frames in defence, spy and lich hunts, since disarm speeds up the waves with the influx of melee units, decoy and switch teleport bypasses the spy lasers and liches rely on line of sight so you can go invisible and even thought there are many frames that do the objectives much faster or more efficient but he definitely has the versatility of breaking the AI in the game.
The thing with Loki is: you have to be VERY creative with this frame. I've had a lot of fun playing with Loki, it is indeed a meme frame but way funnier than the rest.
Remember, be creative, his role is being a troll, not a tank, go with efficiency and use Energy Nexus instead of flow, you will never run out of energy again, put some range to disarm more enemies, bombard em while in the wall and remember to cast decoy or disarm before the invisibility timer runs out.
Of course this is in case of a pre-organized squad, if you are going public you might have to play along with some nuke frames which is why Loki seems outdated.
Make one for Vauban, Professor dysto would be proud 🫡
Your videos are such deep-dives into frames and their abilities, it's amazing.
I feel like he has the Limbo situation, where people say he sucks and stuff, but hes just misunderstood and should have an augment equipped
yea but Limbo I think gets a lot of hate from people because they play with an annoying limbo player.
main issue is that enemy death > crowd control.
Loki is exclusively a “play me for fun” frame since there is no content hard enough to warrant his kit. 🥲
@@Jaesais and that's not because his kit actually sucks. It's that with the right setup he can make most content extremely trivial
Even the dps bros queen saryn can get G checked easily when levels reach a certain threshold but Loki can just make all content easy if you're not fucking stupid which a lot of these dps preachers are
And please note this is coming from a Mesa main. Loki is a frame that is extremely good but people say is bad purely because he's not flashy. He's effectiveness over sheer flash and damage
Loki, while not Limbo levels of misunderstood, very much approaches on it.
Finally Loki getting the love he deserves. Also learned some new things about his kit.
Nev explaining the ai explains how you end up having grineer on hydron shooting through the wall on the bottom floor instead of going through the doorways, as well as shooting up at the bottom of the platform trying to hit it.
You should have seen the full call between me and nova, I do so much yapping lmao, but distance is one of the most important factors for enemy pathing and it's one of those gameplay elements that most players just forget about. If a target has to choose between a low priority target that's 5m away or a high priority target that's 50m away, the low priority target will get shot at! This is fundamental, and when you start paying attention to it, you can start breaking the game, since it applies to everything. What makes loki's decoy so broken is that you can change the *distance* between a high priority target and the enemies, effectively giving you full control over the enemy pathing and thus making a mission easier for your team
@@nev546 unfortunately I did move from one squishy boy (Loki) to another squishy boy (limbo) but if I ever go back to my original golden sneaker this is stuff I'll try to remember
FINALLY the Loki video
I happened to start playing back when Loki was available as a starter frame, so I've always had a soft spot for him. This video was really great.
One thing i wish everyone understood is that no warframe is bad if you use it right. Yes, there are some that do certain things better in a lot of ways, but no warframe is useless
Yeah often times people end up misunderstanding each other when one is rating things in terms of their strength relative to the best in class whereas the other is rating them in a vacuum (i.e. ignoring alternatives and just looking at what it does)
I think Loki is going to be in the same position as limbo you're going to have people just using him for invisibility and then you're going to have those who understand decoy
Thanks to your intro I now have to replay the Ratchet and Clank trilogy 😂
I love your videos so much, you have such a better understanding of this game than most other content creators for the game
LOKI MASTER RACE!! Oh God it feels so ridiculously nostalgic - and sad, (yet full of fond memories) - to say it. Man how time flies by..
PS! Thumbs up for the awesome, awesome video.
I love how you tookj inpiration from Mougs chroma vid, that intro was something i needed more of
you’re absolutely right, he’s OP, DE should nerf him.
Yeah I love when people try to be contrarians and title the videos like this, you are absolutely right, if they really believe in that then lets nerf him to see the usage plummit even more since he is "so OP"
don’t get me wrong, i think the video is great and it genuinely makes me want to get him back out of the fridge and see if i can make him work. but that’s the key part. you can make him work. he’ll never be op unless he or the game changes. the title is nonsense.@@nbassasin8092
@@gidelix yeah I got you the first time, you right about everything
Y'know, I might actually try to get into loki. First limbo, and now this. I love seeing frames with a bad rep get turned around with a bit of exploitation and craftsmanship.
I love that these frames have such a unique and fun way of operating in game. It makes them seem extremely fun and interesting to use instead of "press 4 to win".
I thank you very much for these videos. You have become one of my all time favorite warframe content creators
Haven't seen the vid yet, but I can consider myself as a loki enjoyer. He is really good controlling enemies, I use him for defense, rescue, survival, etc.
Loki Prime main sez I'm team support but I can solo just fine. It's all in knowing what you got and using it right. I could use decoys and switch more but usually I don't need to. Invis & Irradiating Disarm will do 90% of getting them ready for my Zaw to end them.
The aggro for decoy seems to be the same as the aggro for enemies under Chaos. With that power they prioritze the closest thing they see as a threat, which in most cases ends up being other enemies. But since enemies die and move it's more erratic where with decoy you have much more control
Forgot to mention this
@@NovaUmbral definitely one of the most underrated and overlooked parts of Chaos that made Nyx one of my all-time favorites. I even have the statue they sold of her
Finally, someone who acknowledges Safeguard Decoy. Loki supremacy.
Mind Control with the Decoy is best setup. you have to do Decoy First, but will give the Mind control will teleport with you and not wander. and lets you roam. and also fight back with huge scaling in damage due to the same mechanic of scaling for the first few seconds of absorbed damage
Loki was my first frame. I hated him so much as I didn’t know how to play the game. Eventually, I got better and Loki became one of my favorites at that time. Then his prime was announced. First time I genuinely went on a grind for any prime. He will forever be an OG that I seldom play.
Loki silence with disarm is crazy good
One of the few people who still use Loki. I didn't know that his augment can give immunity. I like using his 4th with spectrorage to clump them together
These are the types of videos that inspire you to try out stuff. Another OP warframe hidden in plain sight
It was days ago when I was wondering which low-tier Warframes do not deserve the tier they're put in by meta players and this vid definitely gave me an answer. I was trying to find an accessible frame for certain solo SP missions like Defense and being able to learn that Loki's decoy has that much potential is very helpful. Always love an educational vid
Loki is like an old car, he’ll get you from point a to point b, but there are way better methods to get there
I honestly never understood all the hate for Loki. Practically invisible forever, especially with Energy Nexus. Capable of 20+ seconds of invincibility to allies, or 10+ seconds of invincibility to himself. He's able to shut off AI, or with a ton of range make a bunch of enemies rush away from an objective to a decoy.
I prefer him for level-cap than most other frames because he can do it on almost any mission.
Is that Ratchet and Clank soundrack (from the golden ps2 era) at the start. Gave me nostalgic feels :D I hope it is ;)
In terms of pure damage, I can accept if he's a low tier
But survivability and niche wise, he's one of the top tier for sure. A loki main here
Very happy I discovered this video, especially the usage of safeguard switch and decoy
I really like loki and use him as a long range supressor. Subsumed switch teleport with silence from banshee and I can shut down eximus abilities while disarming normal enemies. Add in decoy's status augment and invisibility and I can make any sp mission or eximus stronghold missions a cake walk.
I believe a few years ago, Triburos even mentioned Loki's decoy mechanics. Like people underestimate his kit. My only gripe, which DE already fixing, was specifically his decoy being so squishy. That's why I'm excited for the QoL it's getting. He still by far my beloved warframe.
I'm sure Triburos is very happy with this video
Great video. Your understanding of the game and videos like this is what makes warframe so great :)
My new list of favorite warframes
1. Xaku
2. Gauss
3. Loki
Meta mains throwing their Wukongs and Mesas like Andy throwing away Woody right now.
"Meta mains" has got to be my new favorite term for stat chasers I've ever heard 🤣
Idc if Loki isn't meta. He's FUN, and that's what matters most to me personally. I can't clear rooms with him by spamming 1 and 4 like Saryn, but I can make everyone slap each other while I shred them
Ong not every frame need to nuke the whole map takes the whole point of using guns away and takes the fun out of the game i.m.o
The way you do these videos.. imma have to hire you to do my obituary so you can explain how all of my flaws are actually just misunderstandings and I'm actually a pretty cool guy.
4:45 I love the Gaspar OST from ratchet and clank 1 here.
Also 12:26 the ratchet gladiator OST
Ratchet and Clank music going hard as hell
The subtle sound of an (off)meta shifting is always fun to hear
VERY EASY FIX: just a change in the AI and a change in Loki's decoy. The was AI works now is to get as close to you as posible to atack and then atack. The change to AI needs to be : determin if the enemie npc is ranged or meele, in ranged after it moves close and after it tryes to atack ( succesfull or not), tell that npc to move to a randome location where the target is stil targetable while still atacking the target .If succesfull, repete the last action. If during the movement it fails to have line of sight, rest from the top, from the trying to get close and atack. The change to Loki: add to the decoys ability the efect of canceling " the change to AI". The AI change not only makes sence as npcs are fighting killings machine ( the warframes) so they should want to make the players job as dificult as posible, it also bringues in to picture more value to all cc and wall ability as the npcs become more dificult to target with abilitys, so the warframes with cc bringue more sinergy / utility to the party. Loki's change also makes the npcs more targetable.
I didn't know the power of decoy and his teleport until now.
The thing about warframe was about the CC, which Loki had the disarm and the decoy (people even used decoy for eidolons years ago) and the problem arises when the overguard was introduced to diminish the power of CC just a lil bit.
But with late patches, more eximus units were added to the difficulty, right now, archimidean is f up with eximus (losing the purposes of having eximus in the first place)
And the problem scale when more damage type warframe arosed like Voruna, Dagath, Dante (why cc when you can just one shot them)
So Loki is not bad, is just his role of cc, dosarm, distract has been neglected due to the new mechanics. The now the best mechanic worth mention is the decoy and switch as you said
Okay, getting closer, an invis frame, but the other one now...
Getting closer.. yes.... :)
Getting a gauss prime advertisement as a gauss main is not something I can complain about
Ok I have never heard of Loki setups like this before (not a super knowledgeable player for a lot of frames) but I always wanted to play Loki because he seems so cool and I like playing invis. My time has come. I will now be Loki player
Haven’t heard that background song in years man
so much ratchet and clank soundtracks...
and then the small clip of R&C3 in the Intro
❤❤❤
Almost every low tier frame can be very Powerful in SP if you know how to play it with the right build and weapons!!
Pretty sure Pablo confirmed in twitter they're removing the zoom effect on Switch Teleport. We shall see!
Just saw the other clip, the one they used in the dev workshop didn't show it properly, definitely excited
always love the videos gotta be my fav warfare creator
Loki is anything but overpowered in my experience. Since starting in 2017 I've never seen a loki outperform anything in any situation. My 2 friends that play this game have the same experience with him. A truly underwhelming frame
I started loving loki in the last few weeks after i gave him the 5x archon, 6x forma treatment, hes just relaxed to play
1 more day until done drafting Loki. Gonna scan for Simaris
so on my loki, i run 328% power strength using two tauforged reds, and 262% duration using molt efficiency, with pillage subsumed over his radial disarm.
328% strength is enough to 100% armor strip in one cast using corrosive projection, and pillage scales its range based on duration, plus the shield regen is great for shield gating.
Arcane energize and primed flow for efficiency, and damage decoy and safeguard switch for invincibility memes.
It's been pretty fun!
it really fucks me up that like 99% of warframe players do not know switch teleport exists when its just better iron skin
Never thought of usin him like this but this is great info I jus safeguard augment and never die lol and confuse enemies
You could do the same thing with any other Warframe
Ive been so tired of people shitting on loki, and safeguard switch, for so long. People act like im a clown for thinking he's fucking great. Thank you for reinforcing that *they* are in fact, the clowns. The upcoming changes are fucking great for him and will make him a crowd control and multiple layer safety net demon. The irl friends ive shown loki to have all come back like, wait, loki is amazing. And im like, yep, you just cant listen to the loud idiots.
I've been playing this game long enough that Loki was my starter. These people saying he's bad? They lack critical information.
1. UPDATE: muzzle flash can no longer blind through overguard
2. Did bro not even talk about the new damage decoy augment? Where it makes an enemy a decoy and does scaling dmg to anything shooting at it?
This just made me want to get out my free loki prime that I got with the New War livestream. All I need is to know where to find the Safeguard stuff and I'll be having fun playing an S tier frame in no time
I rate him the same as rhino because of their nature - they can do a few things but it's all a pretty straight forward plan once you understand how it works
Trib would approve
7:48 so that’s why KnightmareFrame hates Loki he can’t run Prime Surefooted on his build
😭😭😭💀💀💀
Is overpowered? More like was overpowered he's been seriously power creeped... Just like my boi Chroma😭😭
I now know things I did not know, cant wait for the new decoy augment just to use it with max wall latch
Loki is indubitably a sleeper pick. Imagine going against against him in pvp with his augments. He can remain silent using any weapon and can strip you of your weapon and inflict confuse. Not only can you not hear or see Loki but now you just have a melee weapon and you’re forcefully confused by a spell, it’s terrifying.
so your argument for Horde PVE looter shooter character being good is "imagine if it was a completely different game and he had his skillset"?
@@nbassasin8092 I’m simply highlighting the value in abilities that disarm hordes of level 9999 leveling them to only have melee and attack each other in addition to using extremely noisy room clearing armaments yet to the ai your presence goes unnoticed - give it a try
@@MrDiscreet100 no thank you, Im not out here playing for 5 hours just to prove that the Warframe is only getting good/better than others then
By that point Ive completed hundreds of other things in warframe with other more comfortable frames, and more importantly, actually had fun.
but by all means, if level cap is what you find relevant, then yes, Loki is "sleeper pick", although Ash is still outpreforming him by MILES
and also no, he is not sleepr even then, because in the level cap community Loki is higly regarded as very comfy pick, so again, you are wrong, because by the standards youve set Loki is not underrated, people do use him, find any level cap commenting video and youll see that he is not slept on
and by the standards Ive set, he is just bad/outdated so he is still not sleeper because people dont use him for a reason
The issue I see with this is investment, consistency, and output.
For investment, you need to learn and understand the in-depth mechanics/their interactions and specific spots on a given tile set almost like you're doing valorant lineups. Even when you've done so, there's still the chance that a random enemy will get LOS and nuke the decoy if you're not using banish. And speaking of banish, it often seems like the worst frames are the ones that need help surviving or achieving a certain goal. Nourish and Roar are the most popular subsumes mostly because they are the best for if you simply want to take a not good ability on a frame and swap it out for a good buff you can set and forget. So loki either doesn't get that buff or has to finagle finnicky mechanics. And all of this... for something comparable to what so many frames get with one or two buttons. Rev 2, Gara 2, Citrine 2, (Holy shit there's a lot of defense abilities on 2...) Wisp 1+3, Harrow 1, Styanax 4 w/aug, etc. You invest so much to reach that level, I honestly don't think he's that great. Wouldn't give him D, but I can understand a C or *maybe* a B.
on Sortie defense which is moving defense target, you can switch teleport that to make invulnerable all the time, Same on Plains edilion defense drone, you can switch them and it's became invulnerable
The most C-tier frame is Nehza. I spent time farming that frame and never use it. I've had Loki mastered for months and he's always solid, if underwhelming.
was that from the starship phoenix?
Im glad that people have found ways to enjoy playing loki but calling any of these builds S tier feels a little disingenuous. They're incredibly gimmicky and require too much set up to work in most end game missions imo. It's going to do almost nothing outside of a solo mission or a party of friends because everyone else will just draw aggro and outdamage you. And on top of that, while yes decoy is meant to draw aggro, I don't think completely turning off enemy AI is intended by DE. This feels like something they'd end up fixing if a big enough spotlight was shown on it.
Loki will be S-tier next update because I can finally fashion him!