Excellent points here, Will! The “Throne Room Problem” is problematic indeed for White’s view. Thank you for this detailed and thought-provoking response.
These videos are great. It's like the special forces have come out to join Dale in the 'fight' against the trinity. Everyone is dressed so formal, in front of their book cases. It's a sight to see for sure. I definitely think this is a step in the right direction in 'combatting' against trinitarianism. Good job guys.
@@kardiognostesministries8150 I can't engage with you guys anymore. You don't present a case, you just present a verse as if that proves your point. Going back and forth on interpretation with verses is pointless, because like most trinitarians, you are unaware of the unitarian POV and how they handle all the passages, so you'll reject it and render me a heretic as if I've not put any thought into it. At least come with a genuine theological argument, and maybe use some rationality and logic with your position. I'll say this though: I've already looked at the trinity logically and rationally, which is why I'm a unitarian. The trinity poses such gigantic problems, to which trinitarians are happy to throw away basic semantics of what a son and father means, what one means, and what alone means. Trinitarians must also throw away such precise concepts like Gods immortality and how He cannot die. Trinitarians have to employ abstract metaphysics, and then hide it behind our incomprehension of Gods metaphysical entity. The answer to the trinity lies within mystery, and though it's a mystery, it is somehow known and a fact. You guys are okay with accepting words not having true objective meaning, and you're okay with contradicting concepts. Therefore there is no point in debating with you guys, because you cannot honestly point out the problem with your own thinking. It's an intellectually dishonest debate, and we cannot even agree on definitions and what logic, reasoning and rationality is, OR you accept to throw it out then there is no productivity in discussion. The trinity is a stumbling block for everyone, there is enough content on TH-cam providing quotes from those who openly showcase the illogical brick wall to understanding the trinity. Yet it is still gracefully accepted without deeper investigation, showing that the trinitarians will not anchor themselves in logic because the trinity defies logic. So what other doctrines do you believe in that isn't actually logically sound given what the Bible tells us about God? You probably believe in the immortality of the soul, or eternal torment in hell. Not understanding that the gospel of the kingdom of God, is eternal life on the earth. Eternal life is the reward by obedience to God, not a default gift. My point is that trinitarians have flawed logic and reasoning abilities, which makes this discussion fruitless. If you think you are correct, you have to come to the table with sound logic, reasoning, and rationality and tell me why my faculties are not sound. But the unitarians are the ones trying to hold you accountable to the definitions and the concepts shown in the Bible, while you trinitarians want to go fly away with the fairies.
Thank you brother for the analysis of John 12 as it comes to unitarianism. One must come to it with trinitarian preconceived notion to see trinity in this text, but one removes that preconception, it is made clear that John was not referring to Jesus as fully God. Even if White's understanding of this text would be right, it would require a modalism explanation
If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times: the first one to call the other a heretic, is the biggest heretic in the room. Bullies' views always prevail, and bullies are always wrong in their opinion
Jump up the protestant councils and they did the same thing. What protestant trintarians regard as 'orthodox Christianity" today dates back to about 1700.
@@ArtorGrael I was a trinitarian for more than 40 years. So you obviously jumped to a conclusion without knowing the facts....which is what all trinitarians are noted for doing. I understand the trinity is a man-made doctrine that was contrived in the mind of fools and forced on the masses through intimidation, threats, and violence with the blessing of Rome beginning in 380-381 A.D..
Perhaps you meant Daniel 7:14. 1. Latrueo is due unto God alone (Luke 4:8). 2. The Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of latreuo (Revelation 22:3). c. Therefore, the Lord Jesus is God.
The Gentiles John preached to were proselytes such as Cornelius was when Peter preached to him and his household. In Galatians 2:6-9 Paul informs us that Peter, James, and John (the three pillars) decided to take no part in Paul's ministry. They tended their little flock of Jews and proselytes in Jerusalem while Paul took his revelation of the Gospel (Acts 13) to the nations. As for James White's abuse of scripture in the face of numerous plain texts that refute him, people who know the Bible and have turned from the man-made trinity doctrine won't be convinced by his spin.
The biggest problem with the English translations is the English language and not differentiating between titles. Lord, lord, LORD. The NT in translations use the same 'Lord' to support the trinity. The issue comes down to translations and commentaries.
William, I think Trinitarians should be banned from using any passage in the book of John. The author of John clearly....clearly...clearly states the entire thesis of his book in John 20-30-31. 30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. William if you went around saying that Dr White's books promote Modalism, how would Dr White feel? He'd be like...."No wait wait...no not at all." John doesn't say that he wrote the book to convince you Jesus is God Almighty...but that is what Trinitarians walk away from John preaching. Ridiculous.
@@kardiognostesministries8150 Maybe you should let the writer of John tell you who Jesus is. John 20:30-31. The Messiah was never prophesied to be anything but HUMAN. :) You miss the entire understanding of Thomas.
@@kardiognostesministries8150 For some reason, this fact is completely lost on Trinitarians when they read the passage. They read verse 29 as if Jesus blessed Thomas for declaring he is God when the entire point of the passage is that Thomas finally believed Jesus rose from the dead. This disconnect is likely due to the fact that the typical Trinitarian has no idea why Thomas would say "My Lord and my God" in response to finally believing Jesus had risen from the dead. That fact alone demonstrates they simply do not know what is going on.
Excellent points here, Will! The “Throne Room Problem” is problematic indeed for White’s view. Thank you for this detailed and thought-provoking response.
YHWH pretty much means whatever the trinitarian needs it to mean wherever it occurs.
Absolute slam dunk
These videos are great. It's like the special forces have come out to join Dale in the 'fight' against the trinity. Everyone is dressed so formal, in front of their book cases. It's a sight to see for sure. I definitely think this is a step in the right direction in 'combatting' against trinitarianism. Good job guys.
Jesus is YHWH (Romans 10:13).
@@kardiognostesministries8150 I can't engage with you guys anymore. You don't present a case, you just present a verse as if that proves your point. Going back and forth on interpretation with verses is pointless, because like most trinitarians, you are unaware of the unitarian POV and how they handle all the passages, so you'll reject it and render me a heretic as if I've not put any thought into it.
At least come with a genuine theological argument, and maybe use some rationality and logic with your position.
I'll say this though: I've already looked at the trinity logically and rationally, which is why I'm a unitarian. The trinity poses such gigantic problems, to which trinitarians are happy to throw away basic semantics of what a son and father means, what one means, and what alone means. Trinitarians must also throw away such precise concepts like Gods immortality and how He cannot die. Trinitarians have to employ abstract metaphysics, and then hide it behind our incomprehension of Gods metaphysical entity. The answer to the trinity lies within mystery, and though it's a mystery, it is somehow known and a fact. You guys are okay with accepting words not having true objective meaning, and you're okay with contradicting concepts.
Therefore there is no point in debating with you guys, because you cannot honestly point out the problem with your own thinking. It's an intellectually dishonest debate, and we cannot even agree on definitions and what logic, reasoning and rationality is, OR you accept to throw it out then there is no productivity in discussion. The trinity is a stumbling block for everyone, there is enough content on TH-cam providing quotes from those who openly showcase the illogical brick wall to understanding the trinity. Yet it is still gracefully accepted without deeper investigation, showing that the trinitarians will not anchor themselves in logic because the trinity defies logic. So what other doctrines do you believe in that isn't actually logically sound given what the Bible tells us about God? You probably believe in the immortality of the soul, or eternal torment in hell. Not understanding that the gospel of the kingdom of God, is eternal life on the earth. Eternal life is the reward by obedience to God, not a default gift.
My point is that trinitarians have flawed logic and reasoning abilities, which makes this discussion fruitless. If you think you are correct, you have to come to the table with sound logic, reasoning, and rationality and tell me why my faculties are not sound. But the unitarians are the ones trying to hold you accountable to the definitions and the concepts shown in the Bible, while you trinitarians want to go fly away with the fairies.
Unititarianism is a lot closer to the NT truth than Neoplatonic Catholic Trinitarianism. Barlow is hitting home runs in this video!!
Triads were a big thing in Hellenistic religions. Pagans loved them.
Thank you brother for the analysis of John 12 as it comes to unitarianism. One must come to it with trinitarian preconceived notion to see trinity in this text, but one removes that preconception, it is made clear that John was not referring to Jesus as fully God. Even if White's understanding of this text would be right, it would require a modalism explanation
I believe the Trinitarian theory has been thoroughly discredited as a Greek Neoplatonic corruption of Christian doctrine at this point.
No it wouldn’t require modalism. You don’t know what you’re talking about
@@constantineofamerica1555Awesome argument
Excellent presentation. Kindly and Christianly presented. A stark contrast with Dr. White.
The trinity prevailed because the Catholic church made sure of it even to the point of death of those who opposed that view.
If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times: the first one to call the other a heretic, is the biggest heretic in the room.
Bullies' views always prevail, and bullies are always wrong in their opinion
@@dboulos7 Eh idk. the term can be used as a descriptor.
@@cunjoz When it's gratuitous or premature, it's very self incriminating
Jump up the protestant councils and they did the same thing. What protestant trintarians regard as 'orthodox Christianity" today dates back to about 1700.
@@ArtorGrael exactly. Same teaching under a different name
Excellent Job! White will most likely just brush it aside and ignore it. It's what they do so well.
johnspartan98, William Barlow's lies aren't excellent, how can you say they are?
You obviously just don't understand the Trinity.
@@ArtorGrael I was a trinitarian for more than 40 years. So you obviously jumped to a conclusion without knowing the facts....which is what all trinitarians are noted for doing.
I understand the trinity is a man-made doctrine that was contrived in the mind of fools and forced on the masses through intimidation, threats, and violence with the blessing of Rome beginning in 380-381 A.D..
@@ArtorGrael I know more than you know about the trinity, which is why I no longer believe that fairy tale nonsense.
@@johnspartan98 I was being sarcastic, a James White impression.
Dr. White's interpretation is simply an identity confusion trick that is employed to arrive at his preconceived platonic conclusion.
You have no idea what you’re talking about
So kindly and Christianly stated. Thank you.@@constantineofamerica1555
Do you have anything on Daniel 7:24 and the word Latreuo?
Perhaps you meant Daniel 7:14.
1. Latrueo is due unto God alone (Luke 4:8).
2. The Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of latreuo (Revelation 22:3).
c. Therefore, the Lord Jesus is God.
Here is an excellent resource on that:
letthetruthcomeoutblog.wordpress.com/2022/03/18/why-daniel-714-is-not-a-proof-text-for-the-deity-of-christ/
@@kardiognostesministries8150what do you make of the Son of man being the people of God in the original Daniel 7 context? Are they God too?
@@williambarlowThe Son of Man is the proper recipient of "pelach" in Daniel 7:14. This is another proof Jesus is God.
Superb!
The Gentiles John preached to were proselytes such as Cornelius was when Peter preached to him and his household.
In Galatians 2:6-9 Paul informs us that Peter, James, and John (the three pillars) decided to take no part in Paul's ministry. They tended their little flock of Jews and proselytes in Jerusalem while Paul took his revelation of the Gospel (Acts 13) to the nations.
As for James White's abuse of scripture in the face of numerous plain texts that refute him, people who know the Bible and have turned from the man-made trinity doctrine won't be convinced by his spin.
Jesus is "my God" (John 20:28).
Just show respect to your effort. God bless you.
There never was any justice in corrupt Ukraine
The biggest problem with the English translations is the English language and not differentiating between titles. Lord, lord, LORD. The NT in translations use the same 'Lord' to support the trinity. The issue comes down to translations and commentaries.
Those who deny Jesus is God often disagree to whom the "Lord" refers to.
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William, I think Trinitarians should be banned from using any passage in the book of John. The author of John clearly....clearly...clearly states the entire thesis of his book in John 20-30-31. 30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. William if you went around saying that Dr White's books promote Modalism, how would Dr White feel? He'd be like...."No wait wait...no not at all." John doesn't say that he wrote the book to convince you Jesus is God Almighty...but that is what Trinitarians walk away from John preaching. Ridiculous.
The Son of God (John 20:31) is "my God" (John 20:28).
@@kardiognostesministries8150 Oh boy...Adam is your God?
@@stevendubberly8106Jesus is "my God" (John 20:28). Maybe this time you will actually read what I wrote.
@@kardiognostesministries8150 Maybe you should let the writer of John tell you who Jesus is. John 20:30-31. The Messiah was never prophesied to be anything but HUMAN. :) You miss the entire understanding of Thomas.
@@kardiognostesministries8150 For some reason, this fact is completely lost on Trinitarians when they read the passage. They read verse 29 as if Jesus blessed Thomas for declaring he is God when the entire point of the passage is that Thomas finally believed Jesus rose from the dead. This disconnect is likely due to the fact that the typical Trinitarian has no idea why Thomas would say "My Lord and my God" in response to finally believing Jesus had risen from the dead. That fact alone demonstrates they simply do not know what is going on.
This is a crazy level of cope. Unitarianism is blasphemy
Arianism was the message of the apostles. Trinitarianism was imposed on the church after its moral collapse as a compromise with paganism.
Come on say it. hErEsY
Quoting Scripture is "cope" lol. I think we have a young orthobro here