Does the Ram Cummins Diesel Crush a Ford F-150 Lightning On The World's Toughest Towing Test?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
- ( / magnainternationaltv ) Thank you to Magna for sponsoring this video! Check out the next-generation automotive and truck technology Magna produces on their TH-cam channel.
( www.alumaklm.com/ & www.rttrailer.... & www.genyhitch.com ) Check out our new spot to find ALL our TFLstudios content, from news to videos and our podcasts!
Does the Ram Cummins Diesel HD Crush a Ford F-150 Lightning EV Pickup On The World's Toughest Towing Test - the Ike Gauntlet?
( / tflcar ) Visit our Patreon page to support the TFL team!
Watch more videos from TFL Studios:
The Fast Lane Truck ( / tfltruck )
The Fast Lane Car ( / tflcar )
TFLoffroad ( / tfloffroad )
TFLbike ( / @tflbike )
TFLnow ( / tflnow )
TFLclassics ( / tflclassics )
TFLtalk ( / tfltalk )
TFL Podcasts:
TFL Talkin' Cars Podcast ( tflcar.libsyn.... )
TFL Talkin' Trucks Podcast ( tfltruck.libsy... )
3:17 Cummins Downhill
6:18 Trailer Weight
9:49 Cummins Uphill
13:56 Lightning Towing Tech
20:07 Lightning Downhill
26:40 Lightning Uphill
32:22 Verdict
#Cummins #Lightning #PowerOfMagna
This is hands down my favorite truck channel. Im not interested in EVs at all, but you guys really made the comparison interesting and most importantly, informative.
👆Thanks For watching 🤗🤗🤗 And Commenting Send A Direct Message Right Away 🆙🆙
You Have Just Won A Gift 🎁☑️..................
Thank you for watching and for the kind words!
There info is not very accurate the Cummings is 360 hp and 820 ft pounds of torque and the ford 6.7 is 498 hp and 1086 ft pounds of torque so they didn't pick the best truck rams reliability rating is 4 percent out of 10
@@marklott8235 you are splitting hairs buddy. It is clear that the point of this comparison is not to compare apples to apples, but rather something new to something proven. And 820 vs 850, or whatever the hell the new trucks come with, is all the same. The major difference is the standard output vs the 1000 plus foot pound HO.
@@marklott8235 your completely wrong engine reliability is the cummins its been that way for 20 years next the ho cummins makes over 1000 foot pounds
I would be interested in seeing the same F-150 retested in 2 years to see how the batteries degrade over time.
Exactly…. I think their batteries will degrade faster than expected…. That’s the cyber truck will have a huge advantage for sure
@@victorvalenzuela7626 No, because Ford, unlike Tesla, uses Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries, which are 3x more durable than Lithium Ion batteries like those Tesla uses.
yeah when the battery finally does crap out you'll be out 10k, meanwhile the ram wont even be broken in good. EV are a novelty as a work truck.
2010 - Those Nissan Leaf with air-cooled batteries are gonna be dead in 5 years' time...
2015 - Well, they are certainly not gonna last for 10 years!
2020 - Okay...well they will be degraded to almost zero soon!
2022 - 12-year-old Leaf - battery degradation: 30-40% or with other words: 60 or 70% usable energy left after 12 years. That with a battery which has only air-cooling, no smart charging stopper.
So I predict that the Ford Lightning battery gonna be dead in 5 years. I mean, someone has to be the first. Now excuse me, I have to do some typewriter exercises for when this internet age fails and ends.
@@victorvalenzuela7626 of course only one of those two is a real truck…
This EV truck is like someone who can sprint 1 mile as fast as possible and then gas out vs a marathon runner that can run for miles.
You can’t compare EV to gas/diesel because it is a different beast. You are comparing a sprinter to a Marathon runner.
@@motor594brain Yes exactly the EV is the sprinter which will run out of energy quickly vs the Diesel that will run all day.
We have speed limits so it's not like the EV can get to your destination any quicker, especially if you have to keep stopping to charge.
@@motor594brain but you have to compare them because they’re competing to be better than gas. To say you can’t compare them is like saying you can’t compare an iPhone and a Galaxy they do the same thing.
The EV can go 250 miles every single morning without ever having to stop for gas all year long. All you gotta do is plug it in when get home.
Bad comparison because electric is about 3 times as efficient as diesel.
Since many of us have the range tests, I consider the electric truck is basically the opposite of a diesel. One of the main advantages of the diesel is range at max load, and they can do that at elevation. As is, the EV trucks are a passenger vehicle or tow vehicle for very short trips. Again, opposite of a diesel that are not very efficient for short trips, and have maximum range.
I think “inverse” is less negative then opposite. Lightning is extremely efficient at short trips, but at the cost of range on long trips; Diesel has fantastic range on long trips, but at the cost of efficiency on short trips.
I’d like to see a small diesel generator connected to high-discharge capacitors (30kW?), so the generator can slowly charge the capacitors during a trip, then the capacitors can quickly charge the battery a small amount for a range boost.
The major disadvantages to capacitors are a low capacity per volume and a fast self-discharge, but if only using as a range extender and discharging into the truck batteries often, then those weaknesses are not as noticeable. The weight is also better then lithium, so if you are towing you may lose half your bed to the generator and capacitors but you don’t take as much of a hit to payload as bigger batteries would cause. Other then weight, the major advantage of capacitors is life-cycle (near infinite charge-discharge cycles), cost (much less than lithium), and discharge current (much higher then lithium, meaning easily reaching max fast-charge\level 3 charge rates making the wait times very short for the small battery boost it provides),
Honestly, I don’t know why more homes don’t use capacitor banks in conjunction with the generators, maximizing generator efficiency by running at full load until the capacitors are charged then shutting off and repeating as needed. Sure, you need heavier duty starter motors, but not by much since once the generator reaches operating temp the starter wear becomes a small fraction of initial start up force (which is why start-stop is achievable in cars without instantly destroying starter motors) and it will maintain temp since the capacitors are just buffers and only store 15 minutes of energy at a time.
Generators are much more effecient at energy delivered per fuel amount consumed at full load then at partial load (thus why it is recommended not to install an oversized home generator and waste fuel), so keeping it at max load when running is just a no-brainer. This is also why your vehicle is more efficient when running at minimum rpm (but still above lugging rpm) to maintain speed then at a higher rpm but less throttle. Less power, but more efficiency at full load lower in the band (especially if it coincides with max torque).
I believe this is also how the Powerboost works in Pro Power mode, with it only running the motor at full load; if the demand requires constant full load, then it stays running, but otherwise it only runs at full load long enough to charge the batteries then it waits until the batteries discharge before then running at full load again.
"computers are big and slow and only useful for big companies."
@@Cloud30000Capacitors will be used but mostly to keep the highest power consuming away from the battery. For example, when going up a hill or when accelerating from scratch. They will also capture the most amount of energy that a battery just can't, therefore, they will fully charge going downhill, so they will be ready for the next hill or acceleration.
And if you must tow with the EV truck for say 400-500 miles, you will arrive hrs later and the fast charging costs good money, not much less from what the diesel truck would have spent a couple of years ago when we had a legitimate government that cared for Americans and liquid fuels cost $2.5-$3 per gallon.
@@Cloud30000 what you just described… is just a series hybrid power train
"Not a range test"... I wonder why? 🤔 lol
😆🤣😂😝
Charging stations to far apart????
Cause the EV could barely tow it 80 miles haha 😂
It’s a 8mile run…no range test needed
Because the range of the f150 lighting is dog shit
That was an amazing downhill run with the Lightning. Maybe, if you had measured the temp of the trailer wheel hubs, you might have gotten an indication of how much downhill brake [if any] was being applied by the trailer. I'm sold on the electric drive train for towing but I think it will be a long time before I'm sold on the battery technology to power it. Range and charge time are still way too much of a negative for me to move to the Lightning
The low payload capacity gets me.
An electrical engineer could fill that bed with range
@@codyshowalter7128 About 5000 miles of it.
Thats the problem alot of people are having. Electric drivetrains have been around since pretty much electricity was invented.... but the same issues that killed the battery off back the, are going to kill it off again. Battery electric cars are a stop gap at best.
I agree that’s the real world test not how much it can tow.
Excellent work guys. Have run the same route with my 20,000 lb 5th wheel and my RAM HO 3500 Dually. (30k lbs total) Went slower downhill, as the momentum with the load was higher than I was comfortable. Going up, I was able to keep at least a 50 mph speed, except for the tight corners. Excellent test. Love your commentary. Keep it up.
Great tests, thanks for showing this to the public. Something the manufacturers would never show. Well, maybe the diesel guys would! The regenerative ability in the Ford Lightning is surprising. It gained like 8% going downhill, used 16% uphill, so the net is only 8% used to go both ways! Interesting!
And also, there's not a diesel truck in existence that will spontaneously add fuel to the tank when you're going downhill.
@@Kalepsis but did you ever see what happens to a lithium battery that gets hot just once it is called battery do you degradation
@@daviddemarest2724 they get hot all the time though.
I have an F150 Lightning on order its amazing for sure. Won't sell my gas vehicle tho.
No…that doesn’t cancel itself out… EVs are damned to have a lower towing range
Man this comment section….some things that need clarification for those who probably didn’t watch the whole video, I say all of the below and a manual 2-door wrangler owner:
1. They bring up range MULTIPLE times in the video and GIVE THAT WIN THE TO DIESIL.
2. This was a video to test CAPABILITY NOT range. There is already a video up on the channel for that, watch the Ford get smoked in that one. Doesn’t take away from the insane power and tow ability of the truck.
3. This F150 is a light duty truck, even in ICE configurations and if you tow heavy loads for more then 100 miles REGULARLY, like weekly/daily, as a job or for recreation, you should be getting a 2500 class truck regardless of power plant, or at minimum a ICE 1500 class with a heavy duty tow package.
3. It is not “all or nothing”, ICE OR EV. Different people can own/buy different trucks as THEY need. The lightning can work for easily 80% of light truck owners. It has extremely good capability, especially if you are are around town working/driving. The power is unreal. The payload is solid. It is cheaper to run/drive for most, and 300 miles of range daily is enough for 90% of people. ALOT of F150 owners use there truck as a daily to there office job and don’t actually tow that much, that often, for very far.
4. Just like the Hummer EV, there are CLEAR capability benefits to EVs. They can do things that are literally not possible with ICE vehicles. This doesn’t make either perfect for everyone. These vehicles aren’t “stupid” or “leftist”. Quit being political about technology and let innovation thrive. I promise you, your Dino juice running vehicles aren’t going away any time soon.
I retired 7 years ago as a transit bus driver. I drove for 25 years. The first buses I drove were 2 stroke Cat powered, next 4 stroke Detroit's then Hybrids with Cummins pick up truck engines. When I retired the district was making a gradual change from Diesel/electric Gillig buses to all electric buses. My experience was that the Gillig's ran all day (16+ hrs. with two or more driver changes) on one tank of fuel. the electrics had to recharge every time they pulled into the downtown bus station. It did not matter if you were running late or not you had to recharge. That could take up to 15 minutes.
I would take the diesel/electrics over the all electrics all day any day!
With the hybrid you had the best of both worlds, big torque numbers from those 900 vac motors and the range of a diesel.
One other thing: To PG&E, you can take your push for high engine ware, low powered, lousy fuel mileage CNG buses and stick it were I can't mention.
Trolley busses are the way to go - continual power, non polluting, very little maintenance. Way better than horribly polluting diesel, and instant power all the time.
@@ColinFox: The problem with Trolleys and light rail is that they can't be easily rerouted when changes in ridership patterns occur. It's easy to reroute a bus to accommodate new housing developments and as old businesses leave and/or new ones open. Ripping up rail lines or relocating electric lines is a lot more complicated then people think. That is why a lot of cities are using a BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) system over rail/ trolley systems.
One other thing, trace those power lines back to were the generators are. That electricity is NOT as clean or environmentally friendly as you want to believe. Even the rare earths used in solar panels and wind generators have to be mined using huge heave equipment and trucks then processed using toxic chemicals. Check out Mountain Pass California and the open pit rare earth metals mine located there. Also most Rare earths are supplied by China now because of restrictive environmental laws in the U.S.
We should not be using cng as fuel for vehicles. That needs to be used for heat and heat only
@@AATreeService: I agree but a lot of transit districts and other fleet operations are using CNG powered vehicles all in the name of "cleaner air".
@@d.s.steele3100 yeah I understand that part of it. But isn’t that why we invested billions and billions on exhaust fillers and DEF
I bet the Cummins Ram towed the loaded trailer to the start point and back to the garage very nicely while the electric Ford was empty! 😃
100%
Not a Dodge story then. Cummins can take credit. Enjoy wearing the front tires in a front end collision with the Ram.
You used the same footage of the Lightning from a previous video. Also, did you tow the trailer there with the Lightning? If you don’t make it to the mountain, you can’t climb the mountain.
Dude I thought the same thing
I thought I was having dejavu. Glad to know I'm not losing my mind!
They are just recycling footage..quality channel :)
It's pretty obvious they just have a script, and splice and edit everything into multiple videos.
They released the “unedited” version earlier because much of their fan base (including myself) wants to see the full trip without editing parts out.
They didn’t used to do this, but overwhelming viewer requests have caused them to do extra work for us to get it out.
If you are upset at this, blame myself and the others that requested it, and stop watching the videos labeled “unedited” or “raw footage” and just wait for edited versions to avoid repeats.
You can't ignore range. I don't care if the lightning tows it faster, I'll be long gone while it charges after one mountain
Right on. I just don’t understand why anyone would want an EV. The horrific environmental I pact of lithium mining, the energy being generated by coal fired plants, there are so many reasons not to get one, not to mention they’re stupid expensive.
@@notyourtypicalwatchreview2563 A test in Montana or New England during January, THAT would be the real test for the EV's range.
@@evelynwalker1998 right on.
@@notyourtypicalwatchreview2563 I mean the fact is fossil fuels will dry up. So either we learn to make synthetic gasoline like the Germans did during WWII or some other solution. What is great about EVs is that the main components are few and simple. No coolant, engine oil, transmission oil, spark plugs, O2 sensors, catalytic conv. etc. Electric trains make sense when coupled to Nuclear Energy as a source. We should start converting all diesel powered trains to electric before we start pushing EV down everyone's throat.
@@evelynwalker1998 your assumption that fossil fuels, which are not derived from fossils in the first place, will dry up is false. Scientists have been saying that for decades. Oil is renewable; it’s part of the normal carbon process.
Ford's first attempt at an electric truck did just as well as the gold standard on the world's toughest towing test while using less energy. Then people still find things to complain about even though this is not a range test and that was already done. As a first attempt, things will only improve. Anyway, I appreciate the many informative videos.
Everyone says things will improve but the only way they have improved is by adding more batteries
@@fastfed Adding more batteries will increase the weight and not help much. Higher power density batteries will increase the range without increasing weight. There are many candidates that could double the energy density such as solid-state batteries (current working samples in working prototype cars) and others that may be a successor to lithium-ion batteries within a few years and mature by 2030 (sources available).
@@mainz8753 As much as I like electric trucks, my next truck will be an ICE because there is no current electric off-road truck with removable doors yet. I also want to enjoy the smell of diesel while I can.
Range takes precedence over other advantages when it comes to utility vehicles. Things will need to improve a lot in terms of cost and battery energy density before they will be feasible. That will likely require a new battery technology. Lithium batteries have been around 30+ years and have pretty much reached their limit.
Ok I'll hold my breath , but for the last 50 years batteries in our lives are the same , still replacing our car batteries every 3 or so years, still the same weight and size, flash light batteries and toys, rc devices and even drones. Nothing exciting in battery technology. I keep hearing out this magical tech that's right around the corner. You know what I think, I think we're about maxed out and our only solution is less power hungry motors and more batteries
Thanks for the thorough overview TFL. I've done a flat tow test with the Payload pkg Lightning towing 3200 kgs (Cdn). The range was cut in half towing at 100 kph or 60 mph. Exceeding the speed limit will use exponentially more power. As comfortable as it was, its cost ($122k Cdn) and its cantankerous charging requirements to feed. its limited range and also its power, had me compare it more to the compromise an old school resto mod pickup with a gas guzzling high compression big block than the ECO boost F150 i currently drive that hauls that 3200kg at less than 15l per 100kms with a towing range over 750kms. or about 3 times the range of the Lightning with almost identical conditions. Love the tech. but its not good enough yet. Period.
See recent "Car Wizard" episode on why he bought a used Ram V10 for short distance towing verses a newer diesel or an older Cummins equipped truck. He claims the newer ones suffer from reliability issues related to computer sensors and the older Cummins are so much in demand that the prices have skyrocketed. I found it informative as I do with TFL videos. Thank you, guys.
Absolutely. It's all the dpf system in new diesel trucks. Absolute garbage. they break constantly and cost an insane amount to fix
I have a 2018 ram 2500 cummins, and its been nothing but problems from day one, due to eletrical issues, a leak in the dash, and rear of the cab, and transmission issues. Engines been flawless though. So I can't say the car wizards wrong.
@@hotrodhunk7389 DEF systems as well, early versions couldn't thaw out below zero F, and they still cause all kinds of reliability issues.
Wow, you have been so unlucky that not only have fluids started running through your dash, but then started leaking out of it. Most never even have fluids channel up into the dash.
I hope they either solve your fluid problem, or use it to make a breakthrough in fluid dynamic research.
You may also have an Amytiville situation going on; might want to keep a bible in the truck in case those fluids turn red.
@@Cloud30000 I think its most likely in the low pressure cowl under the windshield. every time it rains there's water in the drivers side under the gas and brake pedals. But in a small quantity. They refuse to fix it or even honor the warranty. So its up to the lawyers at this point. Not wasting anymore time. Been fighting with the dealer and Chrysler for 3 and a half years.
That 2500HD Cummins will take you anywhere in the country and do it happily, couldn’t say the same about the lightning
👆Thanks For watching 🤗🤗🤗
And Commenting Send A Direct Message Right Away 🆙🆙
You Have Just Won A Gift 🎁☑️.................
That Cummins will happily take you to the gas station, to the dealership, to the tuner shop...
@@augsu someone fell for the "EVs don't require maintenance" meme
@@AutumnWind92 I have a Bolt with 108K and literally no maintenance, none, I get an email every month from the car telling me I don't have to do anything to it. I also have a 200 hp homemade EV that I designed and built 8 years ago and I drive every day, and guess what, no maintenance. I pulled the entire drivetrain (I mean every piece disassembled and reinstalled in 4 hours) cause my buddy wants to drag race it, and zero wear, just roasted tires and twisted driveshafts, but maintenance? Nope, not really a thing. Maintain what exactly?
I was a hotshot driver for a bit and I approve the shit outta this comment lol
I always love that y’all take these scenarios that manufactures put out there and test them in real world applications. I personally will drive gas power till the Good Lord calls me home.
The electric truck isn't going to be a contender for real-world long haul towing until batteries reach 500kW capacity with 30 minute charge times.
Which then will kill them faster. Faster recharge rates destroy batteries faster. Going below 20% and recharge fast kills them even faster
Better battery chemistry could allow for faster charging times without damaging the battery and have a longer cycle life. I would sacrifice longer ranges for faster (under 10 minutes) charging times and safer batteries (non flammable) with high cycle numbers.
A huge percentage of trucks in cities only travel 40-100 miles a day towing around town. There will probably be a split in the market where many folks buy EV trucks and many buy gasoline and diesel trucks, it just depends on how you use them.
WTF!! The whole point of this video should have been focused on range. Range of Diesel vs Electric. The lighting sucked a box of dicks when compared to the GMC 6.2 because of range. Range is the back breaker for EV's. Without range you have nothing.
Which is a fantasy
I tell ya'll what, these electric truck comparisons you are making are not just informative but meaningful. You're making real-world comparing and contrasting videos about one of the most significant shifts in automotive history. Keep it up, ya'll.
I just realized... I watched a truck maintain 60mph over 8 miles, waiting for the results of the elapsed time 😁 Was it going to be anything other than 8 minutes?? What did I expect?
👆Thanks For watching 🤗🤗🤗
And Commenting Send A Direct Message Right Away 🆙🆙
You Have Just Won A Gift 🎁☑️................
Not all trucks could do it at wide open throttle and at that higher up the mountain
@@sudeeptaghosh That wasn't what I meant. I'm saying I had a moment of stupidity, because I watched a truck drive 60 for 8 miles and was wondering "so, how long did it take THIS time?" --- as if it could be possibly be anything other than 8 minutes 😁 Just having a chuckle at myself
The timing portion is becoming less relavent with nearly all trucks maintaining 60; I’d like to see a new challenge incorporated, like slowing to 30 at the beginning of the steepest part, then seeing how long to get back to 60 on that steep incline higher up in elevation. Might start to show more differences between vehicles then just hitting 60 in the flatter beginning then maintaining it the rest of the way.
I’d also like to see timing tests incorporated in the the downhill portion, since the faster it reaches the bottom the worse it performed. This is also reflected in the braking application, but would be interesting to see if some trucks with the same number of applications still spent more time at faster (less safe) speeds then other trucks, shown by reaching the bottom in less time.
I think a EV with a range extending small ICE would be the ideal combination from a performance and usability standpoint. From what it sounds like that is what Ram Trucks may be working on. I think if you tow anything more than around town that would be the only practical solution until battery capacity/charging technology makes a major leap.
Or adding batteries to the trailer itself. Then you could have extra battery when it is needed. Of course that would cut into your useful towing capacity.
@@WTFUSERNAM44 Yes I think that could work too. I'm sure we will see some interesting solutions over the next few years. I'd venture to guess that in 20 years or so the current EV issues/problems will seem like ancient technology.
BMW did the ICE range extender thing and, while admittedly on a tiny, overpriced little car that no one in the US bought, I don't think a standby ICE that barely ever runs is a health or reliable backup/solution.
@@sly9263 The ICE range extender on BMW's i3 was crippled by California's regulations. To qualify as an EV for the purposes of the ZEV mandate classification, the range on gas cannot exceed the battery range. Otherwise it gets classified as a plug-in hybrid, with reduced ZEV mandate credits. Which meant BMW could only put a laughable 2.4 gallon fuel tank in it.
One of the criticisms of ICE vehicles is that their engine efficiency is far from ideal because of the different power and load demands as the vehicle speeds up and slows down. That makes it impossible to keep the engine within its peak efficiency band (unless you have a CVT). Coupled with a large battery pack, you could run the ICE at peak efficiency load and power to charge the battery, and have the battery power the car. The Chevy Volt (plug-in hybrid) ran with this configuration. And this is the configuration being researched for airliner engines.
… so a hybrid?
These comparisons are great if you are only towing to the end of your street and back. EVs are YEARS away from replacing diesel for towing for most of us.
They are actually getting better results with hydrogen based engines. Cummins actually has a few of them in big rigs, but they are never talked about since everyone is so high on electric
In my town everyone has a lawn service and a pool guy. This is perfect for either. No having to get fuel every morning no oil changes or tuneups
@@LucasLeCompteMusic The issue with hydrogen is the amount of energy required to produce it for transportation isnt worth it using conventional methods. There are new techniques being used that look promising but at the moment gas/diesel is more efficient than hydrogen unfortunately. EVs are fine for average light duty truck users that dont tow much.
I think it depends on how far you tow; for some people towing the boat to a lake 50 miles away is fine and wouldn't be a reason not own an electric truck. If you do lots of towing, I agree, not ideal.
TFL is without a doubt the global pickup journalist leader in the on line world.
According to an MPGe converter the Ford's overall consumption of 1.4 mi/kWh is equivalent to roughly 47 MPG while the Ram's 10.9 MPG is equivalent to 0.32 mi/kWh.
If only the electricity had the same energy as gas, the Lightning would be phenomenal. If I remember right, it's a 33.7 ratio to compare electricity to gas energy. So 33.7KW equals 1 gallon of gas.
Yea, if you do enough math, it almost looks like a good idea. If you need to tow daily, it's worthless. Stopping for an hour every 80-100 miles is a joke. I'm surprised ford released the lightning in this configuration. It can power your house! But not tow a boat to the lake and back..
When I get my Lightning next week I'll see how much range I get for towing a 4k boat. I would bet that I should able to get close to 150 because there's not much aerodynamic drag on it.
I still contend that MPH or mi/kWh aren't as useful real world metrics as $/mi and MPHf (miles per hour including fill up. yes I made the unit symbol up. if someone has a better one please suggest it.) I know $/mi will fluctuate based on the cost of the respective energy sources, but that can and should be noted. that combined with MPHf answers the real question: how long does it take and how much does it cost to take a trip.
I just posted a bunch of numbers in the other test ran with the campers.
@@johnhufnagel good points. I think the lighting is cool. I just don't think it's competing with other trucks.
Pretty impressed with the engineering behind this truck. Sure the range isn’t the best yet. That’s a limitation of physics, we haven’t figured out how to cram more electrons into a battery that fits in a truck yet. However, everything else was good. It didn’t overheat anything, it was stable, and confident. Great job ford.
No they just won't put a bigger battery pack in it.
@@andrewstrahan15 bigger battery means more weight to carry around, less efficiency…..
Nope that’s limitation of chemistry which is only going to get better from here 🙏🏻
@@andrewstrahan15 There's diminishing returns in weight vs electricity. More weight, more power needed to move. Why do you think the Hummer EV, with it's insane 200kw/h pack, gets as much range as the F-150 does, with it's 131kh/w range?
@@sudeeptaghosh better but very slowly tbh!
Tommy and Andre execute the best tests! Great comparison - gold-standard diesel against newbie electric! I think I can hear some folks' heads explode - the ones that claim an electric can't handle weight... lol
Aerodynamics are more critical to highway range than weight. Several channels have shown that. And, physics!
not weight, but distance
@@Travis12861 starting at 63% charge. still low but you would probably have "at least" 160miles.
We know they can handle weight, it’s the lack of range when hauling, time of charging and overall cost of these EV’s that doesn’t make sense.
So what we really need is a Lightning with a small Cummins Onan range extender diesel generator!
Nothing beats a classic cummins💪
amen
Couple a small diesel with a electric drive motor similar to a TRAIN and your towing capacity would be epic.
Look at trains and cruise ships. Both use diesel generators to power electric motors.
You think trucks are expensive now? Diesel to gen to electric motor would double the price!
@@careykuhn9174 nope!!!! The concept is simply not to locked after! There are hybrid bus and trucks in the market, heck even Toyota has hybrid trucks too. It’s about making a little more change, smaller Diesel engine but replacing with generator/ bigger battery puffer…..
@@carholic-sz3qv Go check the prices of those trucks versus convential. Enough said! lolo
@@careykuhn9174 Double the price of a 131 kWh battery that you would no longer need?
"we'll be doing more range testing on flat highways" For those of us using our trucks pulling an RV or horse trailer in Utah and Colorado our typical trip is not on flat highways, we go up and down the mountains. Our trucks ability to do this safely is the most important capability test. Range is also a big part of a working truck's capability, to ignore that is not realistic. Any vehicle can pull a trailer on flat ground for a short distance. Very few can safely tow heavy loads up and down mountains.
Once again this shows that this truck makes a good commuter car not a working user truck. Great features on a truck not ready for prime time as a real truck. The show piece that doesn't get used as a truck, similar to most owners of Suburbans, for those that don't do real truck stuff with their trucks this will look awesome at the Country Club.
I have a feeling alot of people are gonna be using Flintstone power towing with evs. There is a channel named all electric family they have a rivian and they tow a 30ft airstream camper. They claim 140 miles bit thats at 50/60 miles an hr with no head wind they are pretty precise with their numbers. But watching them charge seems like a total pain in the ass going across country with a trailer. Unhookingbto charge waiting around dealing with malfunctioning chargers using apps to pay instead of a cc seems really annoying to me.
Yeah, the infrastructure needs to catch up for sure. Too much variability and none of them is geared towards trucks or even trucks hauling.
@@Jbs6187 not to mention the dangers of lithium ion technology. From a fire standpoint they are a nightmare and should be treated like a house fire. Multiple tankers and 5,000 gal of water for a car fire .. no way would I put my family in one
@@Jbs6187 level 3 DCFC is as bad as it gets cost-wise (level 2 charging is much much cheaper), and even then, it's still much cheaper than an ICE. EA is 31 cents per kWh with pass+, so if we assume 0.8 mi/kWh, that's 39 cents a mile. Diesel is 6 bucks a gallon in my area, so with a generous assumption of 12mpg, that's still 50 cents per mile. Plus the amortized cost of oil changes, which is going to add a bit more on top of that over an EV.
I don't really care for tesla, but one thing I was interested to hear from him a long time ago was his idea of making battery changing stations.
They where supposed to be automated stations where instead of charging the battery, the battery would be exchanged for a fully charged battery within a few minutes and you went an your merry way, the only catch was that you where required to return to the same stations and basically returned the borrowed batteries, ending up with your original battery on the return trip of your journey.
Until recently I didn't really keep up with EV news, but I haven't really heard much about that in years, much like the cyber truck
@@jasonwilliams3223 the batteries are basically gigantic thermite grenades just waiting to go off... a lithium polymer battery for an r/c car is enough to burn your entire house down... and those are about the size of an old nokia brick phone.
Now do a 300 miles test using the same vehicles with the two travel trailers you used in another video and calculate the amount of time it takes to cover the 300 miles. The results will be eye-opening. Electrics are the future but they're really not ready for towing for travel yet. Hopefully, in the next 5 years, a solid solution will come forward to address that issue.
How about a refueling test, where the EV drives home at the end of a work day and plugs in to top-up overnight, while the ICV leaves work, goes to a gas station, waits in line, fuels up, then drives home, wasting about a half-hour?
A half-hour isn't much until you realize it's once or twice a week, every week, for maybe 15 years... that's right around 35 to 45 hours a year, just dealing with fuel.
Not a complete game-changer at all, but it's definitely a benefit, especially if you don't haul trailers from state to state.
@@operator8014 yeah, that’s a valid comparison. 🙄
I feel like I watched this f150 tow already. Same prius blocked them last time too.
Yeah I think that as well 🤔. Unless it just so happened that the same Prius was at the exact same spot as last time.
@@nycad2484 it's the same "raw & uncut" footage from 3 weeks ago for the lightning. They're pushing really hard to be the first at getting these videos out.
@@SavigeSadist1 makes sense. I was getting Déjà vu from it.
I'll give it to y'all, i couldn't stand your channel when you started. But I'm also a knowledgeable truck guy and know more than most about trucks and towing. I also lived in CO and drove the Ike many times both towing very heavy and driving solo empty. But! You have really improved on all levels, especially your presentation. Yes, I'm one that appreciates ALL that data and you guys bring it. Andre, you've improved so much. I like your humor. Tommy, i think you coming on board is what really took this channel several levels up .
Thank you for this video. It was a very fun learning comparison. I still feel the one ton truck chassis would be the best to really have an EV or hybrid setup because they can build in so much more capacity. The Ford was VERY impressive with this max tow test! Thank you, boys!
Would have liked to see how much of a process it would've been just getting the Lighting to the Ike with the trailer.
WTF!! The whole point of this video should have been focused on range. Range of Diesel vs Electric. The lighting sucked a box of dicks when compared to the GMC 6.2 because of range. Range is the back breaker for EV's. Without range you have nothing.
@@peterpuller8569 Why are you copy paste spamming this reply? Be original.
@@peterpuller8569 "Without range you have nothing" What if your daily work is within range? Not everyone tows 9000lb trailers 300+ miles daily, or even once in a while. Lots tow their 3000lb boats to a local lake that's 40miles away if that. Well within the capabilities of the EV. It's funny how EVs bring out the crowd of "I TOW 500 MILES DAILY, EVS SUCK" crowd...
@@Xyler94 Only a fool would buy a new truck with restrictions for that price. Buy an EV car for commute to work not a 7,000lb truck. This is why Tesla has delayed the Cyber Truck. It cant tow and aint worth a shit off road.
@@Xyler94 suddenly everyone tows 10k lbs uphill both ways on the way to work. There are so many truck configurations out there to find one that suits your needs.
Diesel is still the king of towing and will be for another decade atleast.
Lightning is a great retirement truck, lots of time to sit around and let it charge.
Facts
Bro, I only work 8 hours a day. My vehicles are in the garage for 12 hours a day most days of the week....just sitting there waiting to be taken to the golf course.
don't get me wrong. I LOVE this videos. But here's a real life anecdote: I'm a civil contractor in my country. I once won a bid for a project that was 174 miles from the city. I own a diesel. I loaded up, tools and equipment trailer and drove there in my diesel no issues. Got to the pump, 10 mins later I was again on my way to get there, and at the afternoon, 10 mins later at the pump, on my way back home. Note that I had to drive to the job site 3 times a week, besides my other jobsites on the city. I would have to be on the highway at 4:00 am for a 4 hour drive to the jobsite. No, there was no near airport and If it where, I would still have to schedule a rental to drive to the jobsite, it was more a pain than a solution. I would have to stay all day there and drive back around 6 pm back home. Things is: you yourselves sometimes are having trouble finding a charger. And when you do find one, if it is not a pain and a real trouble to get the car to connect to the charger, I've seen videos of you guys spending 30 mins or so having trouble with a charger. I look at myself in that scenario. trying to charge up to get back home, loosing 1 hour trying to get the charger to work, and another hour getting the car to charge. No, there are no chargers near a jobsite around these rural areas. And this is real life I once happened to deal with. So I honestly think EV's are not for everyone. Mainly because for an EV to work, you have to start from the premise that there are going to be chargers everywhere around with enough capacity to charge the vehicle within reasonable time. And that's not the scenario for all areas. So I don't really think EV's are the divine solution for everyone. Maybe diesel hybrids would be more useful for some contractors. Like my case.
Just so you know the chargers are built into evs its just a power source your useing dcfc are just a high power delivery you can plug the ford into any 120v 220v with the provided cable that comes with the truck it won't be as fast as a dcfc
@@lesstevens2370 thanks for the correction and all, but dude, you are missing the point. Many contractors like myself perform jobs on remote areas. What you are kindly suggesting Is I should, when that happens, take one of our generators and plug the pickup to charge so i can get back to civilization. Then later find a 220V outlet and plug the thing and wait a couple of hours to get back home. I don't mean offense but I do really need to get back home as soon as possible. And when workig remote, there are no 220Volts outlet near so I can conveniently plug the thing to charge while I stay doing my job. It's ike you don't get the concept of remote area jobsite at all. And honestly, when I get back to the nearest town, I just want to hit the pump, fill up and be on my way home. For me it is the most absurd thing to have to sit and wait 1 or 2 hours to be able to get back home from a remote jobsite just for the thrill of driving an electric junk. And I do get it, I'm pretty sure there are people out there that will enjoy the experience and all and be hyped to stay another 2 or 3 hours stranded while the junk is still charging. I just don't. I want to get back to my wife and kids and just get home. And I'm pretty sure many people feel the same like me. Not all people conveniently work around city or have the spare time to enjoy the whole experience of being stranded because your 80+ piece of electric junk needs to charge from a 220 volt outlet just enough to get you back on the road. But I'm pretty sure many people will embrace the whole experience and even enjoy it.
Diesel wins every time, no matter the actual results.
Yep. Until there’s a revolution in energy storage technology, diesel is going to be very difficult to beat.
At least for a decade or two.
You guys honestly put together the best automotive videos & comparisons available.
Stay blessed guys
Great and very informative video! But, the real-life scene would be towing with a fully loaded payload and max towing capacity. I wonder how these diesel, gasoline, and electric trucks would do in the IKE gauntlet?
I was floored with the acceleration of the Ford lighting with 10K lbs of capacity and a wheel slip, oh man! This truck should be in the towing competition! Kudos to Ford for making it this far!
👆Thanks For watching 🤗🤗🤗
And Commenting Send A Direct Message Right Away 🆙🆙
You Have Just Won A Gift 🎁☑️..................
Like the original, I see the Lightning as a Sport Truck. Has its place. This comparison, whilst interesting, isn’t Apples v Apples. A 911 is a great car. Not sure I’d use it to move house. Horses for courses.
I know some are fascinated by the tech. Some aren’t. Surely the fact that we all like trucks is the point.
I think the lightning is rated to tow though. It's not like the old Ford lightning which had a 0 lbs tow limit.
@@ocrapo9327 true but it’s a f150 vs a super duty , not apples to apples
@@ocrapo9327 yes, but I suspect the intended markets are different.
The F150 towed just as well as a heavy duty truck. I'm not sure I'd put this into the sport category when it can handle what the heavy duty truck did. The only issue now is range, but if someone is only towing short distances there's no reason to worry about the capability of the Lightning.
@@atomictyler Same for any sport truck or Ute. Down under our sedan based utes could tow enough and carry a fair bit - didn’t mean people saw them as fleet trucks.
The lightning can tow but it’s more suited to getting your tools to site or towing the boat to the lake, not being beat up hauling equipment and materials all day long.
And that’s ok. Imagine arguing that a city guy who likes mountain biking should buy a Heavy Duty.
It’s odd so many seem to want EVs to be everything to everyone. Nothing is.
Well except Brad Pitt I suppose. 😂
I love driving our Bolt EV. Watching this video and all the setup fiddling they went through to tow with the F150 EV made me appreciate the simplicity using my 2000 F350 7.3 DRW 6-speed to tow my camper. I'm slow and diesel is expensive but so simple... Although, that Cummins was awesome and the engine brake looks liek a great idea.
I had an Uber driver take me to the airport in a Bolt EV, he had 376K miles on it, and all he’s done is tires and struts. He’s one of the last Uber drivers in my area who will do long trips. Hold onto it bud!
Pretty sure the only reason to input all the trailer data is for more accurate range estimates. Once you have that info saved, you don't have to go through the input process for that trailer again.
I mean, if you're a light duty tower the Lightning is a no brainer, and this proves maybe even good for heavy towing for some use cases. That extra storage you get up front is not nothing either.
I always knew Electric motors had amazing torque, but the acceleration with nearly 10,000 pounds attached to it is impressive. I can only imagine how unstoppable the truck would be with a diesel generator on the back. you'd have immense power with long range capability it'd basically be a small train at that point.
Kinda defeats the zero emissions thing of an electric vehicle
Then it would weigh 12,000 lbs instead of 7,000 lbs.
@@aidenpommee766 the only thing good for the environment is walking. Everything else is made from fossil fuels, used fossil fuels in its creation, uses worse matterials ( lithium ), or the power plants used for charging create emmisions.
@@JALA578 true it does have a bigger impact in the processing and manufacturing BUT over the course of a year it offsets that co2 production and goes neutral helping the process of other ev think of it as a domino effect
@@aidenpommee766 True maybe if some people made the switch, but if everyone did they'd need more plants and to build a plant alone creates tons of emmisions just for the plants to create more emmisions. While we wouldn't be creating near as many emmisions ourselves the plants needed to sustain the grid would definitely create just as much if not more Carbon. Carbon is a simple emmision though in general its absorbed by trees and other plant life.
Always enjoy watching your videos. Great job Tommy and Andre. By the way “Nice Shirts!”
We are the Ike team!
Range needs to be added to this test as Electric keeps moving in to the market. Just to show how bad the ranges are while towing. That was 16 miles up and down and used a ton of energy
Last summer I moved my family over 300 miles and made 14 round trips of over 600 miles, half of those trips pulling a heavy trailer. I could make the 305 mile trip at 60-70 mph and AC on, with at least 100 miles to spare in my F150, Eco 3.5 and 36 gallon fuel tank. It was just over 5 hours one way, but pulling a trailer and having to stop for a recharge might have turned 5 hours into closer to 10. No thanks! I love my F150 as it is, though around town the Lightining would be fine for some uses. The toughest towing test has to include DISTANCE or it's not much of a test. Those 'tug of wars' and pulling diesel locomotive things are just a joke in the real world.
Something that everyone has to remember, is that the F150 is a 1/2 ton rated truck. and RAM 2500 is a 3/4 ton rated truck. WOW the F150 squealed the tires and launched really hard. amazing especially with that much load. it will interesting what the range will be. but for short haul's as it stands it looks really impressive.
it appears that Ford has the F-150 pretty well designed. at least until such time as better battery technology can be achieved.
Well it takes me an average of 4 minutes to dump 25 gallons of diesel in my truck what I want to see is the charge time on that big pig of a battery that they have
That grade is crazy!! I moved to Texas and my first car back in 2015 was a 2015 Sentra and it was HARD on it on my way to Denver.
I couldn't feel comfortable going over 30 mph felt like something was going to mess up. Definitely need at least a v6 to go up that comfortably.
I appreciate the content. That being said....I watched your video comparing the Ford Lightning to the Chevy V8. I cannot believe that it takes 45 minutes to charge the Ford from 9% to 75%. Who has time for that especially if you're on a trip. I agree that the electric motors are torque monsters but other than that...I'm not impressed
Yeah, that video ensured that I will not even consider an EV in the near future. I’ll keep rolling with my Cummins.
I'm in no way worried about the 45 minute stop. I have a wife and two kids and when we travel the kids want out of the car when we stop for gas. By the time we are done stopping to eat, walk the dogs and restroom facilities we have usually spent 30 - 45 minutes before we get back in the car to then go fill up. If I could charge the truck while doing that it doesn't matter at all on a trip.
@@williamreinhardt2774 you are willing to stop every 75 miles for 45 min if you are towing a camper? The video Dennis referenced was a tow range test that the lighting used 1% of battery per mile. That’s barely an hour of driving between charges. As for the stop, more power to you…my family and I are the exact opposite. Me, my wife, 4 kids…fuel, restrooms, back on the road in 20 min or less.
Aside from electric consumption going uphill which no one’s gotten around yet, I don’t think Ford could’ve written a better TV commercial for their new F150 lightning. That thing was a beast.
The Ram 3500 is available in both the SO and the HO. The SO on the 3500 is identical to the tested 2500 vehicle and the optional HO motor has the Aisin Transmission and the 1075ft/lbs torque. I have owned both in the 3500's and I do prefer the Aisin and the HO when towing, but i am a power junkie :-)
Those transmissions are junk tho
Allison way to go
I thought this story was about comparing 2 trucks, not reading a bio about the trucks you have owned.
I saw the title and instantly knew the comments were going to be more interesting than the video.
Hopefully all these real world impressions and reviews will drop down these 70k+ prices.
I like the video editing. They pretty much made this a show.
Good test, guys, but at 31:55, it’s an insane amount of energy used by the Lightning only in comparison to the total battery capacity. 1 gallon of diesel = 40.7 kWh so the Lightning only holds a little over 3 gallons equivalent of diesel. Doing the math, here are the actual energy usage numbers:
Up Total (18.2 miles)
Ram: 56 kWh 68 kWh
Lightning: 20.8 kWh 13 kWh
So, even at 5.8 mpg which seems pretty good, the Ram used 269% more energy going up the mountain. And due to the Lightning’s regen, the Ram used 523% more energy for both the down and up combined!
But the Ram could do it all day and refueling would take a few minutes not an hour. Time is money for most people. Ram is also cheaper, more capable, and most importantly it sounds better 😁
@@lp6wo great point
@@lp6wo Depends on your definition of capable. Lightning is faster, quicker, and infinitely more efficient. Ram is definitely better for long distance towing. Ram is also not cheaper. A similarly optioned Ram would be at least as expensive, even without the $7,500 tax incentive.
Not really sure how much more efficient it is considering the actual production energy that goes into making an electric vehicle vs a standard ICE vehicle. Nobody thinks about that, as your enormous DIESEL burning engines are mining the lithium for batteries to be produced. I’ll almost bet you run the real numbers and the fact that the large majority of your electricity is from coal and natural gas, you’re not doing anything except making yourself feel better about your environmental impact.
@@tylerwalk7699 Well, most of my electricity is solar, but I’ll admit that that’s not true for everyone…yet. The same is true for production energy and mining for lithium. While a lot of it is currently being done using diesel engines, as the technology continues to improve, it won’t be. By all objective measures, even taking battery manufacturing into consideration, the carbon footprint of an electric vehicle is still significantly lower than that of a similarly sized ICE vehicle.
My point on the efficiency was that it’s much cheaper to operate for 95% of every day use. Are there still uses for which Diesel engines are better? Definitely (e.g., long distance towing or even cross-country driving). Hell, I have my diesel BMW and absolutely love it (and I do neither of those things). But that’s not how most people use their trucks (let alone their vehicles). The low cost of charging your EV, combined with the convenience of being able to do it at home, with the added benefit of great performance (including the ability to run your house’s electrical grid for up to three days in an emergency), will compensate for a lot of its existing flaws.
That revelation about the 8 kilowatt hours of energy is interesting, it reminds me of a mine that uses electric dump trucks, I believe they have an excess of energy they have to get rid of because the mine is higher than the quarry
I am loving all this lightening content! keep it coming!
👆Thanks For watching 🤗🤗🤗
And Commenting Send A Direct Message Right Away 🆙🆙
You Have Just Won A Gift 🎁☑️................
Big congratulations on 1M subs! Huge!
I wouldn't buy an EV right now but I do appreciate Ford pushing this segment. From an affordable EV work truck, to an onboard generator to bringing LED lights to this segment. I truly think this segment would be way behind if not for Ford.
This is a no go for RV ing unless you can get to the campground and back in like less than 90 miles on flat ground
The elevation of the “Ike Gauntlet” is a big deal for internal combustion engines-not so much for an electric drivetrain, at least at non-Arctic temperatures.
Would be interesting to see how it preforms on a very cold day
I've been on that road and it can be summer time temps in Denver and snowing at the tunnel at the peak. Supercharger or Turbos work best compared to N.A. gas engines. Electric power shouldn't feel the elevation difference.
Turbos 😋
@@LucasLeCompteMusic you don't have to wonder. They don't
I n
That Excursion in the rear view mirror is following, way too close! LOL
For a farmer these electric trucks are fantastic. I have an f250 farm truck that i only use for towing but never go more than 100 miles a day because it's always near the farm. The lightning would be perfect to replace it and it could double as a daily driver. For longer trips I have other vehicles.
My F150 is limited to 5000lb tow rating without a weight distributing hitch. 10,700lb with a WD hitch. Does the lighting suspension allow a higher tow rating without a WD hitch? Would you show us a picture of the sticker on the bottom of the hitch reciever? Thanks for the great video.
👆Thanks For watching 🤗🤗🤗
And Commenting Send A Direct Message Right Away 🆙🆙
You Have Just Won A Gift 🎁☑️..................
I have a Lightning, just checked the Ford specs, 5000 lb without the WD hitch 10000 with a WD hitch. My loaded trailer is 5800 lb, I have the WD hitch so I will use it.
It’s a commuter truck, plain and simple. Doesn’t work for me.
You know what no one mentions in these towing tests for electric trucks? The fact that in the future trailers will have their own, (thin -- just one cell deep) cheap LFP battery packs under them that will dramatically increase the towing range for EV trucks. The same will happens for large, 18 wheels semi-trucks. On the semi, the trailers will even have flexible solar panels on its roof, sides and even rear doors to help extend the range even further.
26:59. I felt like Deja Vu. I've seen the same thing in another video of tfl with the same truck. 🤔
I'm now watching the section on the F-150 downhill. I've seen this before. This is the exact same footage from the Ike video with the F-150 Lightning and the F-150 hybrid.
Based on this, you would need to stop at least 5 times for charging on the way to Moab? The diesel would be there without stopping. The electric vehicles are great locally, but unless there are drastic changes in the technology, these aren't going to be used for distance work.
I have said that since it came out but the media the politicians and companies are pushing this hard on us the electric trucks are years from replacing gas or diesel
@@nwharbes They sure don’t work for everyone.
@@iana36s I know right and the tree huggers think everyone has to have one and when you try to explain to them it won't work for your needs they try to shut your agreement down any way possible
I have 27k miles on my 2022 Ram 4500 W/6.7 Cummins turbo diesel. I operate a 4 month old Hot Shot trucking company with my equipment. The 4500 pulls a 40' Big Tex flatbed. Empty weight 20k lbs. My MC authority reads "general freight". This night I had 14k + lbs of military vehicle with generator. The Garmin GPS was in rare form sending me on one of the worse possible wild goose chases I have ever had to date. The destination was in mountainous terrain. The truck in normal 2wd handled the terrain without issue. Then I started encountering steeper and steeper terrain. I had a GCW something over 34k lbs and I was getting honestly scared of what was to come. According to the Garmin map there were no extreme sharp turns ahead so I decided to continue up into the pitch black mountain road. It got tighter and steeper the further I went. I put the truck in FWD low and pressed forward. It had gotten too tight and zero visibility behind to try and back out from this dangerous road. So in low gear and not sure if my tires would lose grip pulling this heavy load, I creeped forward. That little truck never missed a beat and pulled my frightened, inexperienced dumb ass over the top of the mountain. The 4500 easily walked up the steepest mountain road I have ever been on carrying close to maximum gross combined weight. I would not have gone up that road in a car in daylight unless I had no choice. Am I satisfied with my truck? This thing is truly badass. No complaints.
I mean a standard F150 is already faster than the Ram, speed isn’t everything when towing…. The Ram had bigger components to last longer while towing, will stay on the road for much more time, be safer in all kinds of weather, handling confidence and braking will be worlds better on a diesel heavy duty truck.
WTF!! The whole point of this video should have been focused on range. Range of Diesel vs Electric. The lighting sucked a box of dicks when compared to the GMC 6.2 because of range. Range is the back breaker for EV's. Without range you have nothing.
What is the giant deal about range. I dnt drive more than 80 miles 90% of time. If I was going tow all the time electric isn’t for you just yet. Surprise all the dumb comments on here. It’s as bad as political shit. You can own 2 vehicles you know. You dnt have 500 miles of range on everything you own.
@@tyrelladams3343 you're correct, most people don't own ICE trucks with 500 miles of range, not only that but I don't know of any ICE vehicles that can fill their tanks overnight while you sleep.
@@tyrelladams3343 Tyrell, the big deal is some buy a truck to be used as a truck. If you want to use your truck like a Prius then buy a Ford Lighting.
@@tyrelladams3343 People will use any excuse to hate on new technologies. It's the Horse and Buggy conversation all over again.
This was interesting as anything! This needs more views.
Government can force manufacturers to make what they want them to make, however they have no power to force consumers to buy the garbage.
When garbage is all that is made you will be forced to buy it. Just like your forced to vote garbage into political office.
@@peterpuller8569 I think the restoration buissines will benefit from this. There are alternatives.
Did you hear about that couple that drove the Rivian towing 9000 pounds from Michigan to California? 2700 miles round trip and had to stop 27 times. They spent about 20 hours recharging. Electric is making strides, but are not ready for prime time
2700 miles, thats one way, right? Its like 1900+ for me to get to Nevada.
More then 20
If the trailer had extra battery capacity to add to the system, this wouldn't be an issue.
@@MrNicholg you don't tow much do you...adding weight to the trailer instantly takes towing capacity
If the F150 Lightning range is 82 miles towing a 6,000 lb. trailer on flat terrain, how far can it tow in the mountains? I'll bet $1,000 it couldn't tow 6,000 lbs. from Lovell, Wyoming 52 miles to Burgess Junction, Wyoming on Highway 14 ALT (includes 10 miles of 7% to 10% grades - I don't see no 10% grade on the "World's Toughest Towing Test).
The lightning towing the Excursion on this trailer on another of their videos would gotten 50 miles of range.
@22:00 When he is explaining One-Pedal drive he's incorrect about a few things, one-pedal drive mode and regeneration are separate processes on the Lightning but both achieve the same outcome. When he says that the one-pedal drive is reducing the regeneration, it isn't the regen process is till proceeding as normal with or without a trailer. The one-pedal mode is actually just the truck auto-applying the brakes, although the regenerative braking does provide a 'little' bit of slow-down it isn't enough to use for one-pedal. The regen is the magnetic field from the windings being spun the opposite way and the resistance to the field is what you feel as the slow down.
I love Ike gauntlet videos!!
I love how they directly avoided answering which one was more efficient.
Andre,
A question for you regarding your method of measuring “squat”. Recently I spoke with a suspension manufacturer about how to measure a lift for my new truck and he stated measure from the center of the wheel hub to the center of the fender opening. Tire size, air pressure and wheel size could make a difference in measuring “squat” as well. Just a thought.
👆Thanks For watching 🤗🤗🤗
And Commenting Send A Direct Message Right Away 🆙🆙
You Have Just Won A Gift 🎁☑️.................
Thank you for the feedback! Agreed - but it's tougher to do that other measurement in a quick way.
I'd also hate to change a working system but percentage of squat would be more beneficial versus just the squat change in height. 2 inches of 6, vs 1.5 of 5 is functionally the same. Would be nice to see how much came off the front axle too since wdh isn't used on any of the tows.
Appreciate the videos.
We want the 3500 Crew Cab 8 ft bed with the Cummins HO. Two Wheel Drive Dually Maxed Out with a Full Sized Track Hoe on the Trailer. And then let’s see all of the challengers. That’s Your Awesome Video!!!!!
👆Thanks For watching 🤗🤗🤗
And Commenting Send A Direct Message Right Away 🆙🆙
You Have Just Won A Gift 🎁☑️..................
If I ever move to a new home that is 8 miles and a 7% grade away from my favorite campsite, I'd totally get a lightning. This whole video is a bit moot after the towing range video TFL has done showing how useless the lightning is unless you're staying in a 40 mile radius of home.
Not moot; just not as convincing due to the range issue. However, this video proves the truck is more than capable of handling such a heavy load quickly and safely without overheating or encountering mechanical/electrical issues. The range becomes the major thing holding it back, but if they manage a solution for the range, many potential buyers at least know what the truck is capable of.
The same thing used to be said about independent rear suspension on trucks when it first was introduced; testing towing and ride capabilities is pointless when the payload was so low. However, they vastly improved the payload with variable rate springs, and suddenly those initial tests showed the truck was already capable in many other areas so the new springs were enough to convince many to switch over based on previous test results.
I bet if they come up with a range extender solution that can double the range or allow it to use fuel to efficiently/conveniently extend the range away from charger stations, these existing tests will be enough to convince many potential owners to invest where the range was/is the only thing holding them back after these tests.
Spot on comment. How well a truck tows is important....but if it won't actually go anywhere useful....who really cares?
Towing range of 100 miles isn't anything to sneeze at. That would be perfect for a light duty truck around our family farm (and I would have appreciated that amount of power trying to get up to speed pulling a cattle trailer). 50 amp outlets at every grain silo and in the machine shed make charging a no brainer.
@@Chsae314 Exactly, and even 100 miles is extremely conservative. A buddy of mine drove a long range lightning from central AZ to CA with a 7k camping trailer and averaged 220 miles of useable range. Stopped to charge and made lunch in the trailer during the 40 min break, stopped to charge later and had a half hour conversation with a Rivian engineer at the charger. There are certainly people who need more range, I'll be keeping my Cummins for the foreseeable future so I can haul the 10 ton excavator and pick up equipment several hours away, but I'm stoked to get a lightning as a lighter duty work truck for site visits and even throwing the 7k mini ex behind it. I'm rarely driving over an hour (70 miles max) to a jobsite anyway.
i find 220 miles hard to believe even under the best conditions. I get it that its mostly flat, but that seems suspect given their videos here on range.
You made my day! 746 kg of payload for a monster truck one would expect like 10 tons! You know what a Piaggio Ape is? A three-wheeler from Italy, 2m short, 10 HP engine and 800 kg payload! Electric evolution.
With its limited range as demonstrated in your previous video the Ford is a in town vehicle. Great for a local contractor for their fleet and clearly the biggest, quickest commuter vehicle available. Replace diesel, not even close!
Yeah good ideal local contractors.. that was my thought to local no long distance work traveling.. as with most EVs
Diesel will still be replaced by range-extended electrics, meaning a smaller internal combustion generator and battery combo.
No they won't because the corrupt democrats will lose eventually and not every American is brainwashed and stupid like democrats
The insight regarding regen and trailer braking is brilliant. Never occurred to me. Great test guys, thanks!
I don't understand why no electric car company came up with the idea of having 2 Separate Battery Packs thus being able to connect your vehicle to 2 separate chargers at the same time . Imo it would be a really good idea for Electric SUVs and especially Electric Trucks
Gm actually is supposedly working on that concept. Tesla did it with the early semi prototypes where they had a fancy adapter which could take 2 or more superchargers connections in tandem to juice up the semi pretty quickly. Of course now they have the char in sc 1.5mwh capable chargers. Which are equivelant to using 6 v3 250kwh chargers simultaneously. 😀
I wonder if future ev trucks especially ones to compete with or replace diesel 2500&3500 series.
Might also have a charging port for using the 1-3mwh char in hd ev chargers. As well as the ccs port. 🤔
The F150 has a false charging door on the opposite side. I always wonder if that wasn't intended to be a dual charging system, but opted for one battery, one charger instead.
The solution is to step up the battery pack voltage to 800V or higher, which would allow the battery to accept a charge more quickly. 400V is fine on smaller vehicles, but these larger EVs running 400V systems are a step backward on speed of refueling. Two cables do you no good if the battery can't accept the faster charge rate.
That wouldn't speed it up at all. Charging speed works on a curve based on the capacity of the pack. The higher the percentage of charge in the battery, the slower the speed of charge, by a lot. A larger pack charging at a lower state of charge is much faster to add usable range. On AC power it won't help because wall sockets in residences can only offer 50 amps, and current chargers can deliver that already. Tesla did include two onboard chargers for AC power on the Model S at one time, but it is not necessary anymore. DC fast chargers are now up to 350kw, but that is new so not fully available everywhere. Again, the larger the battery, the faster the charge can be on DC power(CCS chargers), and the voltage of platform also increases faster charging ability. So the most recent models by Hyundai run an 800V system and Lucid runs over 900 volts to allow fast charging times and more efficient discharge as well. 400V systems are still able to charge at relatively high speeds though as well, if they can manage heat and cold. None of that is helped by a separate pack of batteries or additional chargers.
There are lots of situations where an ev makes good sense but I think it's fair to say, heavy towing isn't really one of them. The only heavy things these trucks should be towing are camping trailers, so you've somewhere comfortable to wait while the truck recharges.
I don't think the guys are planning to tow on the Alaska trip but it would have a huge impact on a trip like that. They haven't 𝒚𝒆𝒕 had a problem finding a charger but, once they get way up North, that will become more of an issue.
Surprised how far i scrolled to see a sensible comment.
@@Doodooheadguy-fishing Haha, thank you.
Can we have a standard measurement of torque? The Cummins is at the output of the ICE. This number gets multiplied by the transmission gear ratios and again by the diff ratio. The Lightning torque is at the output of its two motors and multiplied by the reduction gear and again by the diff. It would be more meaningful to state max torque at the wheels.
True! Actual Dyno numbers would significantly improve the comparison.
Not a big truck guy but very impressed by the F150 Lightning.
The Lightning clearly has it’s positives as a truck. It’s very powerful, comfortable, fast and capable, but It lacks endurance. So it’s perfect for a farm or city hauler but would be terrible for long range jobs. I’m sure the $40k Lightning will fit the needs of millions of people.
40,000 lighting would be nice but ford is only selling the pro to fleet customers which is unfair to consumers! Hopefully next year they will change that.
Maybe some farm people. If a farmer needs to tow something such as farm equipment to the nearest town, they may get a bit of range anxiety, depending on how far out in the sticks they are.
@@Danzilly I think that’s only the Long Range Pro going to fleets, but fair enough, most people would pass on the Standard Range if they could.
@@benjamincox4027 yeah, but even if towing cuts the long range in half you’re still looking at 150ish miles. 75 miles one way is good enough for “local” hauling.
@@sharonb.9128 towing doesn't cut it in half, watch there video they did towing cut it down to less than 100 miles, same as the rivian test they talked about. And the model x
I'd like to see you guys find a compromise; what would it take to make a Lightning practical. If you slowed down to say 60mph and towed a smaller camper like a popup, could you still get over 150 miles of range?
Yeah I want to see this too but it's less dramatic so it won't get the views. The fact is the Rivian is specifically being marketed as an outdoor lifestyle brand. So loaded with gear, overlanding, etc will be the requirement. With that, charging infrastructure and charging speed are still issues, but its not really an issue with the vehicles anymore, other than on price.
That lightning just keeps lookin nicer and nicer...
The price tag sure doesn’t.
it has to be, you need something to look at while your charging for an hour.
Great video guys, very interesting data on the lightning! Unbelievable to see a 1/2 ton, crew cab truck with trailering max weight ( shy of 10,000 lbs ) only using electric, shows how much science has moved the needle, Imagine having a 15kw solar inverter, and plugging in your electric truck for free ( paying your self vs the gas pump ) this is where this technology has great potential, only question will be with 2500, 3500, 2 ton and up / MAC trucks, on heavy towing / range with battery capacity, Really enjoy your videos on what's what with all the brands, your work is Awesome!
Yep. If the car manufacturers stay focused on innovation and technology then perhaps significant improvements on range will be realized. The internal combustion engine has been around for around 130 years. It's time to move forward with new technologies.
I would like to see an up hill all out drag race 1/4 mile.
The lightening would beat a diesel without even trying. However, it would eat a lot of charge.
@@Hellenkeller777 For sure the electric would win. I do not think that these 2 vehicles truly compare and I know that is the reason they put them together to show the difference. I enjoy watching the TFL crew as they give us important info on all of these vehicles.
Supercharger and E85 is the new diesel! I'm going to do the Ike Gauntlet in my Super Cruiser supercharged LX470. E85 + boost, power and economy.
The F150 seems to be the most "truck like" of all the electric trucks. Nice to know that it is capable enough so that some idiot won't kill everybody on the road when they try to tow something. That said, limited range and long recharge times are the Achilles Heel of electric vehicles when hauling / towing heavy loads. I'm also looking at all the technology crammed into these vehicles and thinking "What's it going to cost to get this thing worked on and is there enough talent out there to support maintenance?"
It's just a novelty truck now. Until you can get over 500 mile range and under 20 minutes charge time that's all it will be imho. If it gets there I'd be a buyer but not getting rid of my 3500 ram
Yeah its going to be a use it and toss it type of thing, at least going to be a bigger module basis. Pretty much like everything else in our life now. You don't fix TV, watch, appliances, monitor, ... too much these days. People just toss them and get a new one since the cost of parts is pairing a new unit anyways. The reason is simple. The complexity and technology required in order to do in field is just plain nonsense, unfortunately. And you know these guys will get it right eventually.
Very costly and not much support
@@jwristen24 It's a truck for commuters who already only use their truck to go to work and back, and go shopping at the supermarket, with the occasional camping an hour away. No one is selling this truck as a long-range towing vehicle
@@coherentpanda7115 More like camping 15 minutes away
A tow test conducted in Germany showed a huge increase in energy consumption in an EV - and the identical increase in a Diesel.