I too am about to spend a week or so on a 4800 in the BVI having only ever sailed my MacGregor 26 so this familiarization, especially in the main video, has been so helpful. Thank you Matthew and Nigel! Before commenting on Nigel Irens' input, I'd suggest you read Dame Ellen MacArthur's "Taking on the World", specifically pages 117-120. If I may be permitted to quote; "He was a big man with a warm smile and could not have been more gentle natured...Nigel had been designing and sailing for years, winning races himself back in 1983 with boats built from his designs....I think he could justly be described as one of the nicest guys in the world...Nigel was a wonderful support...(he) gave me confidence! And the rest, as they say, is history - yes, that is a big man!
Thanks for the video. As somebody looking to buy a catamaran, I'm curious how you hand huge waves? If you find yourself in the middle of a giant storm with huge waves, how do you handle the cat to ensure you don't tip over?
+Brandon Moore It was fantastic , very easy to handle , electric winches are great. Don't count on using the air conditioning the generator noise is worse than the heat when you sleep.
Nigel, that cat is equipped with full battens and cars on a ball bearing track, with lazy jacks. If it’s all working properly you should be able to reef while running downwind.
Surely you just need to lift up into the wind a bit to reduce the pressure on the main. Furling the head sail if necessary, r releasing the head sail/ spinnaker sheet.
Can you Heave To in a Cat? Is it advisable in heavy weather? If so, how? Is use of a drogue advisable in heavy weather? (To prevent “surfing” over the waves”
I'm no expert and it would be great if one who is would comment here. But from what I know a catamaran does not heave to traditionally as well as a monohull does. But a cat rides well on a para-anchor. Comments (from someone with cred....)?
Adam Checketts Not so. You can Heave Too in Cats There are several videos of people heaving too in Cats on TH-cam.. The caveat (as with Monohulls) in depends on the boat....some boats (Inc monohulls) don’t heave too very well. Self tacking rigs generally make it difficult to Heave Too
Is turning into the wind to reef the main the best strategy? Just thinking out loud, but seems dangerous, the apparent wind will spike and you could end up with a bouncing flapping main and boom. Plus you'd have to get through the dangerous 105-85 degree wind angle. Just thinking out loud, but what about heading deep downwind, then bringing the main in to 10 -20 degrees off centerline and seeing if you can pull it down from there? Not sure. Just thinking out loud, but I'd definitely want to try a strategy where the apparent wind works for me, not against me. And if turning is the best strategy, then I would go dead into the wind, I'd head up to ~50 true and have the main out to slightly luff - not flapping like crazy.
The point he makes about being towed by the headsail and being pushed by the mainsail are completely fallacious. The center of effort is on the mast and the rigging and it is irrelevant which sail is working. In fact if the sheet point of the headsail is behind the traveller then the headsail center of effort would be behind that of the mainsail.
Im not a multi hull sailer. On mono hauls i can assure you that jib only vs main only result in two very different levels of performance and sailing dynamics. Based on my experience doing both, pushed by the main vs pulled by the jib are very correct statements. The headstay is reacting a great deal of force generated by the sail. The sheet is as well, but the headstay has a great deal of load. There for, the force is directed into the bow, which has a huge impact on rudder efforts and the way the boat tacks, jibes and recovers from a knock down.
We lost a main halyard on a windward leeward last year. It was blowing in excess of 35 knots and gusts were in excess of 40 knots. We finished the race jib only. It was incredible how fast we were able to Maintain once we could get the boat moving. We were able to point almost higher than both jib and main. Though tacks were a mess, it took a while for the boat to accelerate without the push of the main and thus the boat would heal a great deal before it accelerated and tacking angles were huge until the boat accelerated. Then it was sailing as usual. We were easily able to best 8 knots up wind and 12-14 down wind. This on a 33 foot boat with a hull speed of around 6.5. We would struggle to see 8 knots up wind in the same conditions and certainly not with the angle we were pointing. It was quite an eye opener to the performance in heavy air where you just need to keep going. For control and for obvious safety in bigger waves, a main is downright ideal or even no jib. Being we were in maybe 4 foot waves and we werent in any sort of danger, it was a fantastic experience we wouldnt have tried on open water in a storm.
In short if it's hevy wind don't have all sail out no shit This is 100% whit a monohul and reefing is always smart if it's needed But trying to get sail down in hevy weder by just turning to the wind is way harder best thing to do is take it down before you hevy weder Also of you have a rol jib only leave that out and trim it acoding to the wind after all you rade be a mil slower as safe as faster and unsave As for my feedback on the vidio I sory but I did not learn a thing Sins this is all basic stuf I did alredy knowe wen I was 10
It would make sense to show ( its a video!) the management of a cat in heavy weather (waves rather than wind). You may as well just have a commentary with no video. Poor video. Some useless and wrong comments too Nigel.
yeah, but otherwise they totally suck for everything else. maybe they're better for getting unstuck to something also. but living and sailing on a cat is SOOO much better.
Stay in harbour for drinks with that person you want to impress on your cat or buy a a mono and go sailing. Seems simple enough. Or anchor inshore in 3 ft of water with a toy anchor while cruisers are out with decent scope away from building surf and wonder why people have to pay out chain or reposition and want to murder you when your plastic tray starts sailing itself while you run about on deck like an idiot. Your wife worrying about salt water in your spacious saloon. FM.
Blah blah Blah... "and do whatever is comfortable" what crap information is that........ this video is "Much to do about NOTHING" rated 1/10 ... take the cat out in a REAL foul weather condition!!!!!!!!!!
I take your point. But ... I've done a lot of deep sea sailing, and there just isn't a rule book that you can refer to for every situation. In the end you have to do something that 'feels comfortable' - ie, you have to find some intuitve understanding of the physical world. If you don't have that intuitive grasp, you will never make a sailor. As an example - how do you teach someone to ride on two wheels ? You could try drawing pictures, and writing a lot of stuff. But in the end, you just have to say, 'Look, just get on the bike, pedal, and try to feel what to do.' Am I right, or wrong?
But for all his talk about "feeling," his answers to sailing into weather and even heading up into the wind to reef the main are "start the engine" on both occasions. This isn't sailing by feel to me. Since a cat doesn't heel like a monohull there really isn't a lot of feel, which is why catastrophic failures, if they do occur, occur suddenly and without warning. th-cam.com/video/mxojo8pPpvI/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for that bit of information as I near retirement and the next chapter in my life.
Yeah these are great, I have a bareboat next week in the VI and I have been watching all of these.
thank you for sharing your documented skills on sailing! considering buing a liveaboard for performance type catamaran.
I too am about to spend a week or so on a 4800 in the BVI having only ever sailed my MacGregor 26 so this familiarization, especially in the main video, has been so helpful. Thank you Matthew and Nigel!
Before commenting on Nigel Irens' input, I'd suggest you read Dame Ellen MacArthur's "Taking on the World", specifically pages 117-120. If I may be permitted to quote; "He was a big man with a warm smile and could not have been more gentle natured...Nigel had been designing and sailing for years, winning races himself back in 1983 with boats built from his designs....I think he could justly be described as one of the nicest guys in the world...Nigel was a wonderful support...(he) gave me confidence!
And the rest, as they say, is history - yes, that is a big man!
It looks so simple, and yet. .
Thanks for the video. As somebody looking to buy a catamaran, I'm curious how you hand huge waves? If you find yourself in the middle of a giant storm with huge waves, how do you handle the cat to ensure you don't tip over?
Its near dead calm, Try it in a storm or big waves,
This is very helpful , we will be chartering a 45 cat in April in Tortola . Thank you for the videos .
+Pavo Mrnarevic How was your 45? I have a leopard 45 next week, any advice?
+Brandon Moore
It was fantastic , very easy to handle , electric winches are great. Don't count on using the air conditioning the generator noise is worse than the heat when you sleep.
What I won't like is the advice to use the engine for sailing techniques
Trimaran, best of both worlds
400K Boat and someone skimped 200 quid by not getting a full size plotter. Thanks for the vid tho.
FIrst thing i noticed as well...
It's a charter boat.
It's tiny. Smaller than modern smartphones/tablets. Definitely not for long-term blue water sailing.
1:00, looks like a 65 year old David Duchovny
More heavy weather instruction from Yachting World in a becalmed boat. Next lesson will be how to rig a spitfire jib in a Force 1.
Good stuff. You know what really hurts though, "How much wood can a woodchuck chuck chuck?"
Nigel, that cat is equipped with full battens and cars on a ball bearing track, with lazy jacks. If it’s all working properly you should be able to reef while running downwind.
no main may
be hung up
Surely you just need to lift up into the wind a bit to reduce the pressure on the main. Furling the head sail if necessary, r releasing the head sail/ spinnaker sheet.
I hope they are not calling this heavy weather
1:45 If you're trying to get upwind, then motorsailing is a good thing to do...hahaha! Spent how much on a boat that can't sail to weather?
Plenty of dissent below.
The point to remember is to reef/drop early .
What kind of boat is this?
With a Wharram wingsail you can reef while running.
Can you Heave To in a Cat?
Is it advisable in heavy weather?
If so, how?
Is use of a drogue advisable in heavy weather?
(To prevent “surfing” over the waves”
I'm no expert and it would be great if one who is would comment here. But from what I know a catamaran does not heave to traditionally as well as a monohull does. But a cat rides well on a para-anchor. Comments (from someone with cred....)?
Adam Checketts
Not so.
You can Heave Too in Cats
There are several videos of people heaving too in Cats on TH-cam..
The caveat (as with Monohulls) in depends on the boat....some boats (Inc monohulls) don’t heave too very well.
Self tacking rigs generally make it difficult to Heave Too
Is turning into the wind to reef the main the best strategy? Just thinking out loud, but seems dangerous, the apparent wind will spike and you could end up with a bouncing flapping main and boom. Plus you'd have to get through the dangerous 105-85 degree wind angle. Just thinking out loud, but what about heading deep downwind, then bringing the main in to 10 -20 degrees off centerline and seeing if you can pull it down from there? Not sure. Just thinking out loud, but I'd definitely want to try a strategy where the apparent wind works for me, not against me. And if turning is the best strategy, then I would go dead into the wind, I'd head up to ~50 true and have the main out to slightly luff - not flapping like crazy.
"wouldn't go dead into wind"
Expert?
Motor sail? NO WAY. Sail, that is why you want a performance cat.
Elderly homes day at sea. Yachting World
Delivering a cat now with all sorts of issues. I think theyre bloody dangerous things.
The point he makes about being towed by the headsail and being pushed by the mainsail are completely fallacious. The center of effort is on the mast and the rigging and it is irrelevant which sail is working. In fact if the sheet point of the headsail is behind the traveller then the headsail center of effort would be behind that of the mainsail.
Im not a multi hull sailer. On mono hauls i can assure you that jib only vs main only result in two very different levels of performance and sailing dynamics.
Based on my experience doing both, pushed by the main vs pulled by the jib are very correct statements. The headstay is reacting a great deal of force generated by the sail. The sheet is as well, but the headstay has a great deal of load. There for, the force is directed into the bow, which has a huge impact on rudder efforts and the way the boat tacks, jibes and recovers from a knock down.
We lost a main halyard on a windward leeward last year. It was blowing in excess of 35 knots and gusts were in excess of 40 knots. We finished the race jib only. It was incredible how fast we were able to
Maintain once we could get the boat moving. We were able to point almost higher than both jib and main. Though tacks were a mess, it took a while for the boat to accelerate without the push of the main and thus the boat would heal a great deal before it accelerated and tacking angles were huge until the boat accelerated. Then it was sailing as usual. We were easily able to best 8 knots up wind and 12-14 down wind. This on a 33 foot boat with a hull speed of around 6.5. We would struggle to see 8 knots up wind in the same conditions and certainly not with the angle we were pointing. It was quite an eye opener to the performance in heavy air where you just need to keep going. For control and for obvious safety in bigger waves, a main is downright ideal or even no jib. Being we were in maybe 4 foot waves and we werent in any sort of danger, it was a fantastic experience we wouldnt have tried on open water in a storm.
One big wave will clean everything right off that boat, Bimini and all. ridiculous to see, coming from a commercial fishing point of view.
In short if it's hevy wind don't have all sail out no shit
This is 100% whit a monohul and reefing is always smart if it's needed
But trying to get sail down in hevy weder by just turning to the wind is way harder best thing to do is take it down before you hevy weder
Also of you have a rol jib only leave that out and trim it acoding to the wind after all you rade be a mil slower as safe as faster and unsave
As for my feedback on the vidio I sory but I did not learn a thing
Sins this is all basic stuf I did alredy knowe wen I was 10
Take this cat to Drake Passage, come back and teach us something practical.
let me take it to the drake, seeya maybe
Droime Son, draw him in
It would make sense to show ( its a video!) the management of a cat in heavy weather (waves rather than wind). You may as well just have a commentary with no video. Poor video. Some useless and wrong comments too Nigel.
inbound
Monohulls are for the storms buddy.
yeah, but otherwise they totally suck for everything else. maybe they're better for getting unstuck to something also.
but living and sailing on a cat is SOOO much better.
Huh? Globally inaudible.
Are you joking.
No useful without demostration or diagrams
you guys need another job. I did not hear any useful tips.
Very not helpful, babbling and conditional stuff, "probably but if, or might".
Stay in harbour for drinks with that person you want to impress on your cat or buy a a mono and go sailing. Seems simple enough.
Or anchor inshore in 3 ft of water with a toy anchor while cruisers are out with decent scope away from building surf and wonder why people have to pay out chain or reposition and want to murder you when your plastic tray starts sailing itself while you run about on deck like an idiot. Your wife worrying about salt water in your spacious saloon. FM.
Davidian 77 w
Not a fan then ?
CATS.. the ONLY way to sail:-)
Blah blah Blah... "and do whatever is comfortable" what crap information is that........ this video is "Much to do about NOTHING" rated 1/10 ... take the cat out in a REAL foul weather condition!!!!!!!!!!
I take your point. But ... I've done a lot of deep sea sailing, and there just isn't a rule book that you can refer to for every situation. In the end you have to do something that 'feels comfortable' - ie, you have to find some intuitve understanding of the physical world. If you don't have that intuitive grasp, you will never make a sailor. As an example - how do you teach someone to ride on two wheels ? You could try drawing pictures, and writing a lot of stuff. But in the end, you just have to say, 'Look, just get on the bike, pedal, and try to feel what to do.' Am I right, or wrong?
But for all his talk about "feeling," his answers to sailing into weather and even heading up into the wind to reef the main are "start the engine" on both occasions. This isn't sailing by feel to me. Since a cat doesn't heel like a monohull there really isn't a lot of feel, which is why catastrophic failures, if they do occur, occur suddenly and without warning.
th-cam.com/video/mxojo8pPpvI/w-d-xo.html
@@toytoy1091100% all right.