Nice review. I was slightly underwhelmed by this book. For me, the silence of the girls was taken too literally. I would liked to see a few more female POVs, especially in the second part where it became more of a conventional retelling of the Iliad's events.
So glad you loved this! Fantastic review of a very powerful book. Pat Barker is someone I’d love to read much more of now. Sack of wine must be your new motto! Ed
I was so surprised when I saw that you were reading a retelling, but I’m happy you enjoyed it. I love them - smutty fanfiction and random girl as MC included - but I’m really looking forward to this one now!
I highly recommend 'Ransom' by David Malouf. It's about Priam meeting Achilles for Hector's body. It's extremely well written, short and focuses on the grief and humanity of the Illiad.
Sounds excellent and something I would really enjoy. My only other experience with Pat Barker's novels was the Regeneration World War I trilogy which was terrific. Thanks Allen.
As much as I enjoyed the writing and I do agree with what you were saying about how this shifts the perspective of the men who are often show as the heroes, I was frustrated that this didn't focus more on the women, since the title lead me to believe it was going to put more focus on the untold stories of the women, but it didn't feel like anything new in the end? Briseis was a well created character, but I really would have like to see more of her relationships with the other women at the camp and perhaps the solace they could have found in each other. She felt more like a different narrator for the story rather than a character. In the second half, it really just felt like a rehashing of the Iliad and I got bored, so I skimmed the rest of the books. Misaligned expectations just soured this book for me🙃
I agree in that I wish it was more than just Briseis and that the 2nd half was very different. I liked it more than you bc I like the Iliad and I liked this other perspective but I also wish there'd been more from the other women.
Like you I found the book to be a devastating, can't-put-down retelling of The Iliad that was far more about the reality of war than The Iliad probably was, because it deals with the true costs of war and its aftermath and the plights of the most helpless victims. I first found about Barker when I read her World War One trilogy, which was similar to The Silence Of the Girls in that it dealt not with the actual action on the battlefield but the real victims of the catastrophe, the men whose minds were shattered by trench warfare. Barker's characters are vivid and her writing is sublime, and often moving. I'm looking forward to reading The Trojan Women, although I understand that its only the second of what has become another Barker another trilogy. The second book in any trilogy almost invariably is a let down because, of course, there's no resolution. Barker could have put all three of her WWI trilogy into one book, and probably could have done the same with her retelling of the Iliad and its aftermath,;but then who can blame her for wanting to make some money by publishing them one-by-one? Her books are great and thought-provoking, and are well worth the price.
Pat Barker has been one of my favourite authors since the Regeneration trilogy, which you (and others) should read if you haven't. I also loved The Silence of the Girls, but agree it was an uncomfortable read at times for the reasons you say.
I loved this book! ("Loved" is the wrong term maybe. I was uncomfortable all the way through. But man, it was good!) I was waiting for this review. Agree with all the things you said!
So glad you enjoyed The Silence of the Girls. My favourite retelling! The sequel is fantastic as well. In my opinion a little bit below this, as Achilles and Patroclus are not present, for obvious reasons.
Would there ever be a book from Agamemnon's POV and paints him in a way where he's a hero or wronged leader and unwillingly forced to do all he does? I'm not sure that would be anywhere close to accurate in reality. It seems like, if done well, taking major historical or classical/'ancient' events (real or fiction) and going from different POVs is an interesting storytelling method. I'm not well versed in these types of stories so possibly the historical fiction or retelling genres are chock full of that type of story. Per the discord, very subtle use of Achilles clip, LOL!
Fantastic review man ! I'd never heard of this before but it sounds like something I'd really enjoy, so I'll need to look it out. I like the idea of seeing the more petulent Achilles, my biggest issue with the Song of Achilles was that Patroclus deserved better because Achilles was a little diva, and I feel we were supposed to find those aspects endearing. Ooh a nasty Odysseus, colour me intrigued. I'm reading Enemy of God, and I love what Cornwell is doing with Lancelot, taking this character known for being a hero, and making him the literal worst haha.
Very interesting, I liked The Iliad and have read several re-tellings over the years. My favorite is Eric Shanower's Age of Bronze simply because it's a superb comic with awesome art, and other ones left no impression on me at all. Maybe this could be another one that does?...Jarrod
SOLD! The Brothers Gwynne already had me quite excited for this one, but you once again managed to jump a book straight to the top of my TBR. I haven't been a big fan of all the myth retellings, but this one sounds like it's worth my time. Give me all the emotional turmoil!!
It’s so cool to hear your perspective on this with your knowledge of the Iliad and Greek history. I definitely read it knowing very little about those things and still fell in love with the story and Barker’s writing. It’s so cool to know she intertwined poetry from the Iliad into the narrative. I really loved how Barker gave a voice to the women/captives of the war who are often overlooked in history and these types of myths. I am excited to read The Women of Troy ! 😄
I actually just randomly picked up women of troy (the 2nd one in this trilogy) on a whim like 3 weeks ago and noticed when adding it to GoodReads it was the 2nd in the series. So I went and picked up the Silence of the Girls as well and finished it yesterday (perfect timing apparently!). Very happy to have picked up such a gem tbh, very intriguing and well written.
This book sounds really intriguing! I look forward to your thoughts on the rest of the series, if you end up reading it. Sorry the posters clip didn’t end up working out. It would’ve been a good one! I enjoyed the prolific “sack of wine” clips though 😂
I've read The Iliad around March last year and absolutely loved it (even more than The Odyssey) and the fact I couldn't find your discussion with Andy Smith right after was such a bummer to me. 😟 This book sounds really interesting, but I was wondering if there are also portrayals of women with more agency? Or other men apart from Patroclus that have some empathy (they sound a bit like caricatures to me)? I do understand things were different at that time, but there was more nuance than what many feminist scholars or authors seem to think nowadays, and so I'd be very curious to know in more details how Barker handled those things in this novel. Also, Achilles is already a big crybaby in The Iliad, so Barker got it right for sure! 😂 I'm also glad she didn't go for the homosexual interpretation of Achilles's relationship to Patroclus - I really didn't read it in that way, and it just sounds to me like a David/Jonathan situation all over again (aka male friendships in literature/historical texts HAD to be gay, right?!).
Akhilleus and Patroklos being lovers is not a modern creation. They are explicitly stated to be lovers in Plato's Symposium and are portrayed as lovers in Aiskhylos' lost trilogy focusing on Akhilleus. Whether or not they are intended to be lovers in the Iliad is up for debate. There are many versions and variations in Greek and other mythologies and they are all valid. Even within the Iliad there is variation and inconsistencies.
@@Τεῦκρος-μ2σ Interestingly, I've recently read Plato's Symposium and found it surprising that they would interpret it that way. Again, that's not how it came across to me when I read The Iliad (I even reread the two first 200 pages once I understood the context better), but since I can't read the original I can't really analyze it properly (I'd have to dive into studies), but since homosexual relationships were common at that time and place, well it might have been that way.
I read and loved this book and then I read the Odyssey, Iliad, Metamorphoses, Sophocles, Aeschylus, all because of it. Btw I can't stand Glee in "history times" that was The Song of Achilles.
Achilles as a winner 🤣I like that image🤣 I actually have a strong dislike for this character of the Illiad, ,which is why I never felt even tempted to read Madeline Miller's book centred on him. I might try this book, though, when I feel mentally strong enough to go through the phases of whishing I could enter the story carrying a rifle to go on a killing spree 😆
I loved this book and the sequel is so good too. I love how especially in the sequel everyone is worshipping Achilles and Briesis refuses to go along with this
This book was a bit disappointing for me. It started really well with the parts not usually covered in stories about Troy, but I was hoping it would be much more of a ‘high concept’ novel with a rigid first person perspective of Briseis. So we would only get descriptions of scenes and events that she would have actually seen, the rest being rumour and snatches of info she hears. I realise that for commercial reasons it has to be accessible to people who haven’t read the Iliad, but the second part is just a very straightforward re-telling in my view, with Briseis being almost an omnipotent narrator. It’s fine, but nothing we haven’t seen dozens of times before. The writing is pretty good though, so the second book is on my tbr but not a priority.
Nice review.
I was slightly underwhelmed by this book. For me, the silence of the girls was taken too literally. I would liked to see a few more female POVs, especially in the second part where it became more of a conventional retelling of the Iliad's events.
I agree. It's possible the next book does that considering Andromache and Hecuba have a large role
Well I'm very interested in this book now. Also the "sack of wine" clips made me laugh XD
So glad you loved this! Fantastic review of a very powerful book. Pat Barker is someone I’d love to read much more of now. Sack of wine must be your new motto!
Ed
Very powerful! Have you read the sequel? And the dialogue in TROY is so bad!
I was so surprised when I saw that you were reading a retelling, but I’m happy you enjoyed it. I love them - smutty fanfiction and random girl as MC included - but I’m really looking forward to this one now!
Hahahaha of course you do. I think you'd enjoy it, tbh!
I highly recommend 'Ransom' by David Malouf. It's about Priam meeting Achilles for Hector's body. It's extremely well written, short and focuses on the grief and humanity of the Illiad.
Oh awesome
Sounds excellent and something I would really enjoy. My only other experience with Pat Barker's novels was the Regeneration World War I trilogy which was terrific. Thanks Allen.
I was surprised by how much I enjoyed it!
I am glad you enjoyed it! I think it will be one of my favorites for the year. I am still really into all the mythological retellings though, lol!
As much as I enjoyed the writing and I do agree with what you were saying about how this shifts the perspective of the men who are often show as the heroes, I was frustrated that this didn't focus more on the women, since the title lead me to believe it was going to put more focus on the untold stories of the women, but it didn't feel like anything new in the end? Briseis was a well created character, but I really would have like to see more of her relationships with the other women at the camp and perhaps the solace they could have found in each other. She felt more like a different narrator for the story rather than a character. In the second half, it really just felt like a rehashing of the Iliad and I got bored, so I skimmed the rest of the books. Misaligned expectations just soured this book for me🙃
I agree in that I wish it was more than just Briseis and that the 2nd half was very different. I liked it more than you bc I like the Iliad and I liked this other perspective but I also wish there'd been more from the other women.
Like you I found the book to be a devastating, can't-put-down retelling of The Iliad that was far more about the reality of war than The Iliad probably was, because it deals with the true costs of war and its aftermath and the plights of the most helpless victims. I first found about Barker when I read her World War One trilogy, which was similar to The Silence Of the Girls in that it dealt not with the actual action on the battlefield but the real victims of the catastrophe, the men whose minds were shattered by trench warfare. Barker's characters are vivid and her writing is sublime, and often moving. I'm looking forward to reading The Trojan Women, although I understand that its only the second of what has become another Barker another trilogy. The second book in any trilogy almost invariably is a let down because, of course, there's no resolution. Barker could have put all three of her WWI trilogy into one book, and probably could have done the same with her retelling of the Iliad and its aftermath,;but then who can blame her for wanting to make some money by publishing them one-by-one? Her books are great and thought-provoking, and are well worth the price.
Pat Barker has been one of my favourite authors since the Regeneration trilogy, which you (and others) should read if you haven't. I also loved The Silence of the Girls, but agree it was an uncomfortable read at times for the reasons you say.
Considering checking out her other works!
Great review and as always great edits, Allen! Going to have to add this one to the list!
Hahahah thanks
I have never read The Iliad. But i did read this. I really enjoyed this book! Now i feel guilty for never reading The Iliad. I will order this asap
I love the Fagles translation of the Iliad.
@@TheLibraryofAllenxandria thnx! Ill look it up ^^
Your shirt!!🔥🔥
I loved this book! ("Loved" is the wrong term maybe. I was uncomfortable all the way through. But man, it was good!)
I was waiting for this review. Agree with all the things you said!
So glad you enjoyed The Silence of the Girls. My favourite retelling! The sequel is fantastic as well. In my opinion a little bit below this, as Achilles and Patroclus are not present, for obvious reasons.
Would there ever be a book from Agamemnon's POV and paints him in a way where he's a hero or wronged leader and unwillingly forced to do all he does? I'm not sure that would be anywhere close to accurate in reality. It seems like, if done well, taking major historical or classical/'ancient' events (real or fiction) and going from different POVs is an interesting storytelling method. I'm not well versed in these types of stories so possibly the historical fiction or retelling genres are chock full of that type of story.
Per the discord, very subtle use of Achilles clip, LOL!
Ugh Agamemnon is the worst so I hope not lol
Fantastic review man ! I'd never heard of this before but it sounds like something I'd really enjoy, so I'll need to look it out. I like the idea of seeing the more petulent Achilles, my biggest issue with the Song of Achilles was that Patroclus deserved better because Achilles was a little diva, and I feel we were supposed to find those aspects endearing. Ooh a nasty Odysseus, colour me intrigued. I'm reading Enemy of God, and I love what Cornwell is doing with Lancelot, taking this character known for being a hero, and making him the literal worst haha.
Ugh Lancelot is AWFUL
Very interesting, I liked The Iliad and have read several re-tellings over the years. My favorite is Eric Shanower's Age of Bronze simply because it's a superb comic with awesome art, and other ones left no impression on me at all. Maybe this could be another one that does?...Jarrod
I will check that one out!
SOLD! The Brothers Gwynne already had me quite excited for this one, but you once again managed to jump a book straight to the top of my TBR. I haven't been a big fan of all the myth retellings, but this one sounds like it's worth my time. Give me all the emotional turmoil!!
Same! I've had trouble with myth retellings in the past.
It’s so cool to hear your perspective on this with your knowledge of the Iliad and Greek history. I definitely read it knowing very little about those things and still fell in love with the story and Barker’s writing. It’s so cool to know she intertwined poetry from the Iliad into the narrative. I really loved how Barker gave a voice to the women/captives of the war who are often overlooked in history and these types of myths.
I am excited to read The Women of Troy ! 😄
Thanks for the recommendation!!
Thanks, Allen. It's on my TBR.
I actually just randomly picked up women of troy (the 2nd one in this trilogy) on a whim like 3 weeks ago and noticed when adding it to GoodReads it was the 2nd in the series. So I went and picked up the Silence of the Girls as well and finished it yesterday (perfect timing apparently!). Very happy to have picked up such a gem tbh, very intriguing and well written.
Also from the first 80ish pages of the women of troy I can say we get to witness more crybabying haha
Hahahahaha why are they such crybabies???
Could just be me, but I feel like this might be a record for the "Sack of wine!' clip.
It definitely is
Just finished reading the book it's good definitely will be reading the sequel in a few months
I loved loved this book and it makes me happy that you did too since you know so much more about this topic than I do 😂😂
Yessss! Have you read the sequel?
@@TheLibraryofAllenxandria no! I need to though!
You really sold this book. Its on my TBR now. Great job Allen.
Yessssss
Omg best review ever!!
This book sounds really intriguing! I look forward to your thoughts on the rest of the series, if you end up reading it.
Sorry the posters clip didn’t end up working out. It would’ve been a good one! I enjoyed the prolific “sack of wine” clips though 😂
I've got it locked and loaded for next time I need it
I've read The Iliad around March last year and absolutely loved it (even more than The Odyssey) and the fact I couldn't find your discussion with Andy Smith right after was such a bummer to me. 😟
This book sounds really interesting, but I was wondering if there are also portrayals of women with more agency? Or other men apart from Patroclus that have some empathy (they sound a bit like caricatures to me)? I do understand things were different at that time, but there was more nuance than what many feminist scholars or authors seem to think nowadays, and so I'd be very curious to know in more details how Barker handled those things in this novel.
Also, Achilles is already a big crybaby in The Iliad, so Barker got it right for sure! 😂 I'm also glad she didn't go for the homosexual interpretation of Achilles's relationship to Patroclus - I really didn't read it in that way, and it just sounds to me like a David/Jonathan situation all over again (aka male friendships in literature/historical texts HAD to be gay, right?!).
Agreed. And also, that's the main critique about this book I'm that there aren't many other female perspectives. I think there are more in the 2nd one
Akhilleus and Patroklos being lovers is not a modern creation. They are explicitly stated to be lovers in Plato's Symposium and are portrayed as lovers in Aiskhylos' lost trilogy focusing on Akhilleus. Whether or not they are intended to be lovers in the Iliad is up for debate. There are many versions and variations in Greek and other mythologies and they are all valid. Even within the Iliad there is variation and inconsistencies.
@@Τεῦκρος-μ2σ Interestingly, I've recently read Plato's Symposium and found it surprising that they would interpret it that way. Again, that's not how it came across to me when I read The Iliad (I even reread the two first 200 pages once I understood the context better), but since I can't read the original I can't really analyze it properly (I'd have to dive into studies), but since homosexual relationships were common at that time and place, well it might have been that way.
I'm planning on reading this book soon
Great video! Can't wait to read this one.
Hope you enjoy it!
Oooo I have this out on Libby! WOOT!
Awesome review! I want to read this now!
Is "Sack of wine!!" in the illiad, Allen?
It is not!!
I read and loved this book and then I read the Odyssey, Iliad, Metamorphoses, Sophocles, Aeschylus, all because of it. Btw I can't stand Glee in "history times" that was The Song of Achilles.
Oof
You should read Circe
Achilles as a winner 🤣I like that image🤣 I actually have a strong dislike for this character of the Illiad, ,which is why I never felt even tempted to read Madeline Miller's book centred on him. I might try this book, though, when I feel mentally strong enough to go through the phases of whishing I could enter the story carrying a rifle to go on a killing spree 😆
I too have always hated Achilles
unfortunately it didnt die, there are so many parallels in today thatt voices similar oppresionate instances
So many grown-up Greek babies! Hahaha! I do want to read the Iliad one of these days, but this sounds like a neat story!
They're such crybabies!
Agamemnon, the greatly missed sack of wine
He's the worst
Superb!
Yessssssss poor MINUS
I loved this book and the sequel is so good too. I love how especially in the sequel everyone is worshipping Achilles and Briesis refuses to go along with this
Oh good to know the sequel is good!!
This book was a bit disappointing for me. It started really well with the parts not usually covered in stories about Troy, but I was hoping it would be much more of a ‘high concept’ novel with a rigid first person perspective of Briseis. So we would only get descriptions of scenes and events that she would have actually seen, the rest being rumour and snatches of info she hears.
I realise that for commercial reasons it has to be accessible to people who haven’t read the Iliad, but the second part is just a very straightforward re-telling in my view, with Briseis being almost an omnipotent narrator. It’s fine, but nothing we haven’t seen dozens of times before.
The writing is pretty good though, so the second book is on my tbr but not a priority.
So I actually agree to a point with this...I know why it had to be done but it was jarring to be in both Achilles and Patroclus' head.