Ohh man, hearing Nobbles voice talking about WoW lore just hits different. Reminds me of good times and has a lot of nostalgia to it. It feels very comforting.
Omf, when will Blizzard remove that animation, ffs?! T^T They _know_ it's bad; they've not given it to anyone else, they cut it from the Nightborne, and they don't use it in a single cinematic, so they must know! Just axe it already! >-
I've loved the sylvanas character since she stood next to varimathras and I had to collect an undead apothecary as a lowbie with no quest addons. What a mighty character ruined by irresponsible writing.
I refuse to consider her lore, or any lore at all, between the start of bfa and the end of SL. We killed the Legion, Sylvanas dissappeared and we don't know why, now we're helping dragons, yay
Anduin has doubts about his faith in the Light because of being Dominated and now wants to take a break to figure stuff out? Damn if only there was someone who was strong in the Light, that also willingly contained Domination magic within himself to save the world, and was slowly being corrupted by it through the years, and also happened to be a mentor/father figure to Anduin. I'm pretty sure said character could really help Anduin find peace 🤔🤔🤔 (Yes, I'm still incredibly salty that Bolvar got reduced to a simple exposition man and Sylvanas punching bag and Blizzard won't explore more facets of his character like losing the Light and how the Dragonfire works, instead barely giving scraps of badly written family drama)
@@tf2010zf That would actually mean they planned things. I would love to see this, and love to see better writing, but sadly somehow I doubt it will happen. Maybe they proof me wrong...
I have to say, I've always been impressed by the range of Sylvanas' voice actress but damn, Tyrande's is incredibly good as well. She can portrait so much depth of emotion, I love it.
@@mokarokas-1727 For classic and the first three expansions, most of the voices were done by company staff just like that, so they didn't have professional voice actors.
@@rattlehead999 - This goes for Warcraft 3 too, it's not just that: they talk so quietly even when large emotions are expressed. Like they're trying not to wake someone up in the next room. :D That's not on the actor, that's on the director.
In terms of voice acting Blizz hired some talented people back then, who are still around. It`s not only in Warcraft, but also Starcraft for example. Writing is not the best in WoW for some time, and SC also had some issues with the story in the end (in my opinion) but those voice actors sure do their best.
@@cameronmcewen7192 - And here you are again, with yet another account, spamming the same misinformation. You don't speak for any actresses, and there's no animated series in the works. Stop spamming.
Setting lore aside, its funny how Tyrande is hopping (the night elf idle animation) while Ysera explains to her the sacrifice needed to bring her back, and how her people need her.
Thank you so much for putting this together, Nobbel! I am ready to move beyond BFA and Shadowlands and hopefully into a better new storyline. This really helps put all those insane threads into a neat ball of yarn that I can tuck away somewhere. Excellent work, as always!
I've said it before and I'll say it again, this timeline is dead to me but I'll never stop watching the loremaster who inspired me to be better at learning azeroth's story and history. Besides, my timeline can always use the last glimmers of truly decent lore left in modern blizzard's trainwreck. Thank you for covering it, even though I'm sure you, like me are pained by what it has become
Imagine how many souls waiting in line to be help, and how long it will take. Sounds weird to tell that Tyrande really cares her people, like Uther says is it vengeance or justice they seek? Well, but Tyrande was always clear at first she seek vengeance lol
I've a feeling they've done it this way so we'll "revisit" the the shadowlands in the future but I really pray they don't go "Muwahaha you thought she was redeemed but no she's in charge again!". I mean unlikely but... this is blizzard we're talking about.
Yep, really proves uthers point about justice vs vengeance. Now this will bite us in the ass so hard in the future, but ayy maybe then people will have different opinions on shadowlands.
Really hope the night elves get a brand spankin new Teldrassil planted in or near the dragon isles, which houses a "New Darnassus" and also a brand new Night Elf starting zone experience.
I'd rather they build up around Nordrassil. Night elves need to stop planting world trees, 3/4 of them turned out terrible for the world. Maybe they could reclaim felwood and turn it into something more in line with darnassus and the druid class hall.
@@nathans9764 THIS. Idk why tf they need a new tree. Like it makes sense as to why Teldrassil was planted (Fandral and his druids wanting their immortality back) but it makes absolutely no sense to have another one now. Just fortify Hyjal, work harder on purifying Felwood and because it's Dragonflight and Ysera's back, get her, Alexstrasza and Nozdormu (maybe even Kalec too since the highborne are back into night elf society, to make their mages more powerful) to bless Nordrassil again and make them finally reclaim their immortality and immunity to sickness and disease. They deserve it after the constant losses they've been enduring since the start of WoW
I like how Lillian’s speech about the undead being her family mirrors… I think it was Thassarian referring to Koltira Deathweaver where he said “we are brothers in death.”
"the flow of souls into the maw has stopped" > two min after, sylvanas jumps into the flow of souls going into the maw. The lack of care with details is very representative of everything related to lore in this expansion.
@@Usagi33353 maybe, but one would assume this should have been the ending they were expecting to reach and be prepared for it (insert illidan meme here)
It’s an interesting point that Sin’dane makes about necromancy not being limited to Death magic, taking into consideration that we’ve seen every single one of the Six Forced being someone back to life: a naaru reanimating Calia, many instances of Void risen undead in BfA and Aegwynn bringing Medivh back by using Arcane power and sacrificing her own life essence to do so
It's pretty much common knowledge, I think, that cosmic beings can use any magic they learn. Why wouldn't a naaru resurrect Calia instead of reanimating her though, considering the contention between the Light and death? I suppose it fits if death magic is the cheap and flawed way of doing it. If Calia was too important to the naaru for some reason, and didn't have enough power at hand for a full rez, it's good enough. That would make sense. It could have also just been a case of, "Oh she's a major human figure, from Lordaeron, and she's not undead, that doesn't make any sense; she's undead now, fixed it, derp", which I really can't put past them.
what about the power of life magic? a life magic undeath sounds very wrong, i can imagine undead-like beings raised by life magic, but those wouldn't be undead, more like living things like roots or fungus or whatever moving a corpse like a marionette, but those things would be alive and the corpse would not be animated, it would only appear to be. Like if you tried to use life magic to bring back someone i guess that either you bring them back as actually living beings and not undead, or you end up with your life magic changing to its opposite death magic in the process, in which case it would only be a overcomplicated way of normal death magic necromancy
One thing I wondered at, was why was Sylvanas allowed a graceful swan dive into the Maw, and I always fell down like a sack of spuds? Loved the interaction between Calia and Lilian. Very heartening. Lovely video, thank you! ❤
I was always hoping that Lillian Voss would step into a leadership role for the Forsaken after Sylvanas left, I'm still not sure how I feel about a council, but at least Lillian is on it.
I dunno really, what "growth"? She had a nice arc coming to terms with herself in Cata+MoP, then came back out of nowhere in BfA as a military leader, mostly to sometimes drop in and say how hard it is to be Forsaken and why they deserve sympathy. Good thing, but not really character development.
@@AlunKahul - Oh for sure, but we haven't really seen the second part of this growth. It happened off-screen, she wasn't even part of the Forsaken when we last saw her before her popping up in BfA.
you're a very brave and patient man, Nobbel - I don't think I would have the fortitude to discuss this toxic mess without breaking down half way through
So again: If Sylvanas actions really were her own, was it really the Jailor saying "all will serve" for the 15th time that tipped her off to this being a bad idea?
If you think she's telling the truth, you haven't paid attention. She was double speaking. Half of her soul was dominated, half was held hostage. She had ZERO choice, period. Imagine this: I take the good half of your soul prisoner. Then I use magic to force your bad half to do as I demand. You are magically compelled, against your will, to do my bidding, therefore you "chose to do my bidding," because I forced you to choose that. So she is telling the truth...or at least...half of it. Having ALL of herself now returned, NOW all her decisions are her own. So why would she double speak then, knowing full well the implications. Well, you see, little Casual, that is because she knows EXACTLY what Pelagos and Tyrande would do. She even states it: "Death would be merciful. But you aren't going to be merciful, Tyrande." Then what does Tyrande do? EXACTLY what Sylvanas said she'd do, NOT BE MERCIFUL. Sylvanas played Tyrande like a fucking fiddle. Sylvanas is EXACTLY where Sylvanas wants to be: The Maw. The source of her power. She is in charge now, or at least...she thinks she is. Or perhaps, she knows she's just the Jailers puppet, and that she replaced Zovaal. The thing is, Zovaal wasn't the Jailer, The Primus is. And he and Denathrius are very, very free now, and still plotting. Their scapegoat now used up, their plans only just completing phase 1 of their Ultimate goal. You're going to be in for a wild punch to the gut when this all comes to a head. Sylvanas will be doing absolutely ZERO suffering or penance. She is either still Dominated, or choosing to serve one of, if not THE greatest mastermind in all of Reality: The Primus, who predicted absolutely everything, which means he also predicted this. Like it or not, this is the story. It's greater than people can clearly comprehend, and I can't wait to see the next phase of his masterplan. Zovaal seems like a shallow character not because he is, but because he is meant to appear that way. Blizzard's writers aren't stupid; this is all by grand design. All you have seen, is a fractal.
Sylvanas regained her free will after Illidan wounded the Lich King, and in Edge of Night, her corpse was re-reanimated with her entire soul. Disregard all the booolshiet. Also, let's laugh our asses off how Blizzard continuously asserted, emphatically, all throughout BFA and Shadowlands that she was strong and independent, until they went back on it at the last second. 😂 I don't care if Syl is strong or not, these cop outs are just bad writing. At least they saved her in the canon for all her parasocial fans.
All will serve = everything dies at one point and by that comes under the rule of death, nothing else. Also Sylvanas has more than enough reason to go against such a terrible system for mortals that leave no escape. And while things didn't work out as she wanted, she still reached a lot and improved the system by a lot. She kows, that none of her enemies would ever see that, so she just gives away her judgement to her biggest enemy, so none could say anything afterwards anymore - and by that close that chapter. Wasn't perfect for her, afterall she had hoped for freeing mortals completely from these chains, but at least it's much better than before.
@@Levitiy Her soul is pretty whole, the little fragment she was given back still left a wound and when it rejoins, as it was frozen in time, it delivers an unique view on her whol way from ranger general to the banshee queen who was willing to sacrifice thousands and more to bring down the injust system of death. Something her ranger general self is unable to understan of course, especially because it lacks all the insight her older self has earned - and was (de)formed by. And no, it's no bad writign at all, you people just love to throw shit and got clearly no clue of good writing. I never heared anything interesting from any of your crybabies. All that comes from you is "THAT'S SHIT! THAT'S SHIT! THAT'S SHIT!", so the standard social media degenerate.
@@miriamweller812 I'm glad someone gets it. Because it's either that, or she was intentionally infiltrating the Maw, to replace Zovaal one day. It's absolutely something she'd do. But maybe now that she has her other half of her soul again, her plans have changed. Her manipulative half was all we've seen since she threw herself off ICC in Wrath. It explains everything. Now she should be more like she was from her resurrection in WC3, all the way to ICC. It's a great way for Blizzard to return Sylvanas to how she used to be, so the next time we see her active in the min story again, she's gonna be instantly loved by the entire community all over again. I have and always will love her character, she's extremely interesting.
It still doesn't feel like they have a cohesive plot or are writing more than one content patch at a time. I'd be surprised if they know how they plan to end this new expansion or what the story of the story of the following expansion will be about. I'll come back to play the new expansion for about a month but I doubt the story or the end game will catch my attention.
Shadowlands had alot of very great climaxes with well made cutsceens but they all end up feeling unearned, so little time too explain charackter motivation and actually showing whats happening. Its like the game we play and the story they show dont actually fit togheter
@@Trashloot In a book Sylvanas reminisce about the past and very often talk about her little brother Lirath Windrunner and how she feels like she failed him. And most of the time she address him as "Little Lord Sun"--a nickname with similarities to her nickname for Anduin, "Little Lion." Between the nickname, golden hair, deep blue eyes, and similar mindset they very alike.
Shadowlands was such a slog for me I might never have known even half the lore to come out of there if not for people like you, Nobble. Thank you for compiling the good bits out of that expansion for us.
As much as the overall story of SL was…eh I think the epilogue was really good. Still had issues but instead of one big wrap up, they made sure to have a wrap for every major story.
Oh boy. We just had a faction leader doubt himself out of his birthpower. Now Anduin will have so much doubt he'll turn to shadows for a while? Like Thrall with the Elements when he became a warrior for a while?
And he'll have a strange relationship with Sylvanas and quest chain that explains it and also further develops it and we'll have Sylvanduin babies in no time
@@bigthonk735 Well, the Windrunners seem to have this weird thing for human males. So it ain't that farfetched. That said cuckolding Nathanos with Anduin could be such as bitch move that I can't see the new "good" Sylvannas doing it.
@@bigthonk735 Somewhere I read that they did idd do the deed, something about she asking for his "company" at his "place". Now if u ask me if the undead can bump uglies? I wanna say yes, but probably not (question mark?) I mean even if Nathanos PP doesn't work, he still got fingers and a mouth, am I right?
I hadn't even bothered watching these cinematics after the downhill stroll the lore took with the Jailer. Honestly though,that was good! It did bring back emotions for Warcraft I thought long gone.Nobbel, I salute you sir!
I think that the lore got overshadowed by the Jailer and how poorly he was written. At it's core though, Warcraft has always been a really fun and simple fantasy story. Legion/BfA/Shadowlands has finally given Blizzard a chance to put all of those stories to rest and move on. A time skip is exactly what the universe needs. How will all of this play out and how will the new loose ends shake out? I don't know. Maybe it will be terrible, but I am excited to see regardless!
BFA cured me of ever touching this game again, but seeing what Shadowlands has done for the game still hurts. Might have been me but I noticed that sentiment in your voice in this video.
Oh thanks a lot. I didn’t know there’s stuff about Tyrande at the end. Anyways, I’m surprised that Nathanos went missing the entire expansion. Everything thought he would find Sylvanas in the Shadowlands.
God damn it, as much as I hate to say it, Sylvanas accepting her actions and not blaming it on the Jailer is pretty commendable. For those that have read Brandon Sanderson's Oathbringer will perhaps recognize "You can not have my pain!" and how it can relate here somewhat.
the only thing in shadowlands that was ever good but still Battle for azeroth was better and UGHHHHHHHHHH REDEEM YOURSELVES BLIZZARDS AND GET OUT OF MICROSFOT
@@OmniMon94 Get out of Microsoft? Genuinely not sure if you think Microsoft had anything to do with how bad Shadowlands was or not. But the truth is that no, Microsoft hasn't even touched anything Blizzard at all. This was all Blizzard's own mess. If anything I personally think that Microsoft will be able to save Blizzard from themselves. I mean they've legit done good with both ESO and my god the work they did to help Fallout 76 recover...
perhaps the only good thing to come out of Shadowlands, excellent lore videos from Nobbel so no one will ever have to play this wretched content ever again
So... the jailor's domination didn't fade when Anduin slamed his sword into the Archon. The domination paused because Anduin was actually enjoying and wanting to do it, so the domination did not needed to be used at that moment. Then he realised this and got probably confused or horrified or something that the domination kicked in again to control him. Yes we do know that the light in Anduin was strong enough to resist the Jailor's power, and it manifested durring its raidboss fight to become free. Still back in the day Anduin was kinda bad boy, if you remember old classic when he was just a kid. Also harsh on the black dragonflight guy too, and slamed that shield troll to dust and was also indifferent of the bloodied sword too before Sylvanas. So yeah plenty of points to the dark side. About Sylvanas. She was sadly a 1 dimensional character, but funny enough she actually got the only single thing she wanted, well 2 technically, okay 3, lol. 1. She saw Arthass in the Maw exposed to such punishment that she herself had some taste of that every action she ever did since served only a single purpouse, to avoid that fate in the maw. Now she is actually fully resurected living mortal with countless milenia ahead of her in a situation and power and knowledge that she literally cannot die as nothing there can ever hope to harm her, and even if she somehow managed to find difficulty, Tyrande of all people would need to intervene so she could resume the souls savings, and since this thing will last pretty much forever just means that shes set trough and trough to never experience herself the suffering and what she does is likelly not a torture or anything, also when she talked with Anduin it was clear that shes not phased by anthing down there or her job. 2. She will eventually find her love who got killed by Tyrande and she can reunite with him and probably share this near eternal toil and probably find many good moments with an even more eternal soul by her side, almost like a happy ending really. She even say herself this that she will find her love. 3. And lastly, she wanted revenge on Arthas for doing all that crap to her and her people. Which she kinda had, she had the opurnity to be the very last thing that ever connected to Arthas, and not just saw his actually full on death, but being contemt with forgiveness or anything you wannna call her finally being able to move on from this tragedy. And hey Arthas is 100% fully totally unreversabelly totally gone, not dead but litreally ereased from existence, yet shes still kicking, actually alive, and safe and sound with a lifetime job and potentially spending it with her hubby. She got the better ending, while Arthas had no saying or hope or choice and was actaully tortured for a lot long as time then her. So yeah. Even funnier that due to her powers, she likelly way way outlive her sisters and all other humans or orks and pretty much everyone :D
Anduin has been characterized as an unwilling sovereign who isnt comfortable with absolute power, and The Super Lesbian is literally EVERYTHING he hates about his duties as an autocrat.
Nobbel, I cannot rightly express my thanks for you returning to explaining WoW lore. I fell out of love with WoW during BfA, struggled and failed to rekindle that love during Shadowlands. Still, I cannot give up on WoW. Maybe it is nothing more than the sunk cost fallacy, I cannot say. But as it stands, your lore videos are all that I have to keep the guttering flame of my faded affection for WoW going. I feel hopeful that Dragonflight will bring back that loving feeling if Blizzard will only leave Anduin and Sylvanis in the Maw long enough for the bitter taste of BfA and Shadowlands to fade.
I feel very frustrated watching this, seeing Shadowlands the entire expansion was made just to redeem Sylvanas. Blizz wanted to show Jailer as a greatest evil and source of our suffering, but instead of writing him as a interesting character, writers focused on writing him badly enough to force Sylavans to betray him. Even the death of Big Bad Warcraft wasn't the culmination of the Great Warcraft Saga but instead Judgment of Sylvanas. Uther, Anduin, Tyrande, almost every cinematic in last 2 years was supposed to make us feel sympathy for her, but she missed that opportunity when she looked at the burning Teldrasill in one of the most expensive BFA cinematic, with a smile on her face. We've wasted two years make her a Villain and next two we was forced watch like writers try to fix it. Honestly I don't wanna Sylvanas to come back. She was the face of two most controversial Expansion in terms of lore. Let them not kill her, but she cannot come back. She may appear like an easter egg, but her return will do more harm than good.
you traumatized? lmao jokes aside i personally dont care if she comes back or not, i can see good in both so long as its well written, she can just be a different character from now on and letting her rest for 1 (preferably 2) expansion (s) probably would do good to detach her renewed perspective from the garbage we were served since BFA and SL, so i do think that her returnal could add to the story again, but only if blizz let her rest and make something refreshing about her, also never again put the spotlight on her, coz that has proven to be a bad idea
Shadowlands was a gigantic heap of discount versions of things we already had, but that they insisted were somehow better. "Titan +++" entities with identical roles to titans. Rip off scourge, rip off emerald dream, rip off holy afterlife and High Heavens from d3... it just feels like an insult to everything that already existed for them to push so God damn hard about how vital these things are. How "everything you like is dependent on them." But then you read the lore of places like the Emerald Dream, and you realize it's prior lore before Shadowlands already had it perform every function of Ardenweald on its own. Everything they made was reductive to the things we knew about. Sargeras, the mad titan? Well he's just a pawn of Zovaal the Mad Eternal One. Their handling of the Sylvannas treatment compared to how they handled Arthas and his legacy are the best examples of this to me. They were willing to steamroll everything that made his story interesting to try and salvage her lol.
I'm glad blizzard woke the fuck up on that killing character off was a bad idea, they brought Illidan back and put him on the shelf, in case of emergency, so it's Yzera and Sylvannas.
I think at some point Silvanas and Ilidan will come back and side by side will help us for something big, maybe in the next expansion, another big character will leave us and return in the future with Ilidan and Silvanas
I wanna shit show scenario. i.e "We were all lied to, all the 6 "pantheons" are out for their own, light, shadow, death, etc, it matters not, our only allegiance is to ourselves and by proxy, Azeroth" An expansion in which WE are the aggressors and bring the axe to other realms.
Thank god they ended Illidan on the best last expansion (Legion) Imagine if he went along BFa and Shadowlands, he would become a cuck like Bolvar and every other "Body type 1" Character 🤣🤣
So its confirmed we get a timeskip, 3 years? I kinda had hoped for longer. Like a decade or more, give the time to come up with some actually original characters, villians and storylines
When you consider the whole of WoW's lore happened over the span of seven years, "just" three years is a pretty big timeskip. Imagine if you had been frozen in time during the BC expansion, and then you wake up with the Lich King dead, Azeroth shattered and disfigured here and there and a freaking race of Pandas which was thought to be a legend now part of your own Faction. Oh and you also have an Invasion coming from beyond the Dark Portal, AGAIN, but this time it comes from Past Draenor.
@@Lorfo11 yeah not a fan of the 7 years either considering the multiple world wars, apoclypses etc its just a strange time management for so many events, makes it feel like the previous events had no meaning
This seed stuff... just feels so empty to me. Souls that, per lore we had for over a decade, never should have even gone there but stayed on Azeroth? This dependency of Shadowlands to give the Night Elves any kind of renewal, when they are a people who picked themselves up from worst events in their past than anything in WoW, without really needing divine intervention so much as guidance and wisdom to rebuild. Years of having our lore and characters trashed, and they simply try to throw us another world tree, ignoring that the actual narrative of Teldrassils history was against the arrogance of planting new world trees at all... I mean, I'm sure it'll graphically be pretty. But seems like it will fly in the face of the original meaning of the lore its trying to rip off, where they could have just remembered OG night elf lore and returned their focus to Nordrassil. Shadowlands, and the minds that allowed it to exist in these forms even outside its main story, are gonna haunt this setting and games story until the end I reckon.
Yep, cleansing of Felwood and settling of Mount Hyjal. Night Elves are a people, not a tree. Decimated as they are, there will be plenty of room for them without one. I would rather see them and the Forsaken splitting from the Alliance and Horde to focus on rebuilding on their own.
@@mikfhan hell if we wanna just avoid the issue entirely of a small population like they do with Tauren or Darkspear, just have a lot of hidden villages throughout the regions that saw how absurdly suspicious Fandral and Teldrassil were and just stayed in their communities. The maps, especially vanilla era ones, aren't comprehensive, they can't possibly be.
So wait a minute.. does that mean that Bolvar was raised into undeath using necromancy but with fire magic instead of death magic or light magic? The margrave said that necromancy is necromancy no matter what type of magic is used.. did Alexstraza use necromancy?
he didnt even die. hes not undead as far as i know. he got infected with the plague, was about to die and then alextrasza came and burned him and the plague, but the fire of the red dragons is a form of life magic kind of :D thats my take at least.
I don't think so, Bolvar's body was being ravaged by Putress' blight and the heat of Red Dragonflight flames (while they have been described as having both purifying and rejuvenating properties, the renewal is mostly shown to affect plant growth). As a paladin, he may have attempted to heal/purify himself, further adding to an already unstable/uncontrolled mixture of magical energies. I suspect the end result was that in healing damage done by the flames and blight, the magic(s) were focused on 'preservation of life' rather than truly healing Bolvar's body, and so countless patches of scar tissue formed. I think that he didn't actually die, so he wasn't raised to undeath by necromancy, but rather 'lowered' to a state between life and death 'equivalent' to undeath.
I don't think it was wittingly. So kinda. The dragonfire and blight probably transmuted each other's effects in the time it took to burn the fumes away.
Krasus/Korialstrasz raises a man from undeath (temporarily) in the books for information, and mentions that life and death are two sides of the same coin. Dragon life magic isn't much different from the other kinds available, it's just more primal. That said, I don't think Bolvar died and was resurrected so much as "prevented from dying". You know, like dragon-spiced beef jerky. Which might be why he's so mad about it.
Now they've given dark ranger customization to the elven races, even though they're Forsaken. Still think it's crazy the Forsaken are limited to human corpse skins... they've been more than the lost of Lordaeron since TBC ish. I get others would cry because they'd have the most versatile options being most of the original races, but it's crazy now that we have canonically added new elven undead to the Forsaken.
I like when Slyvanas calls Anduin Little Lion at the end. Its probably the first time she said it out of respect and not intended as a insult. Not optimistic about Turalyon as King.
I missed the end of Shadowlands but LOVED Dragonflight and never knew what happened. So I'm making a start on The War Within and wandering whatever happened to Sylvanas. When I first started in WotLK, my first friend I met in game LOVED her character, so im always wondering how shes doing
Just realized they could have made Sylvanas sentence approximately ten times more satisfying with a single line (and accompanying retcon): "-until the final soul is free, and you are all that remains. Even Arthas will see mercy before you."
The only real problem I have with this lore is the Uther line about "do the want Justice or Vengeance?" Sylvanus started a war with the specific intention to transfer all the souls of the dead to a place where they'd suffer eternal torment all to provide "fuel" to a being that was going to unmake reality. Even those she didn't have a direct hand in killing (which would be in the millions maybe?), she was still part of a plot that consigned tens (or maybe even hundreds) of millions of souls across the universe to that fate. Not sure looking down on the victims who are like "please just execute this evil person" is a good look for good old Bluther, especially since Sylvanus herself admits that she wasn't influenced to do it, she did it all with her own free will when given the possible out by the Arbiter. What she did was literally the most evil thing that anyone has probably ever done in the entire Warcraft Universe...getting the death penalty hardly seems like an over-reach of authority.
watching this again, ... People complained about how the Crown of Wills looks, and it is indeed pretty scuffed, but as the Arbiter has to Wear it, the Design has to be somewhat fitting to that. Also keeping the Lich Kings Helmet would completly obscure the Arbiters Head, that wouldn't have worked. Also Sylvanas beeing the only Elf having proper Pupils, while every other Elf's Eyes just glow in different Colours.
Since I first heard her song in Vanilla, I have pledged myself to Sylvanas. I have trusted that she knew what she was doing, and had a greater reason for doing it. There should be daily to help her collect souls in the Maw, keeping a count across all players, alts, and servers. I would be there first thing every morning, serving my Dark Lady! #simp4Sylvanas
Just noticed that Anduin called Gen 'Old Wolf'. That was something that Sylvanas called Graymane. Maybe Sylvanas DID leave the Maw, she is a banshee after all. Left the Maw inside of Anduin.
no one gives Genn respect in the alliance because he doesnt deserve respect. Anduin is a Pacifist who has had to come to terms with the difference between Inaction and restraint. Tyrande is a warlord who has ruled for thousands of years. the Council of 3 hammers have two veterans of the Third war and a girl who when the books are closed and doors are locked will admit about the only thing she didnt fuck up was her love life and that she wishes she could do better for her son. Gelbin has been a battle engineer since the Second War, and Velen when hes angry is unhinged enough that even in blind rage tyrande would tell him to calm the fuck down. Genn hid behind thick walls and tried to ignore the world burning down around him for 30 years. the literal sole reason hes an active agent in the narrative is that Sylvanas killed the son that had enough balls to actually lead from the front lines and risk his life, something Genn had never done.
Tyrande actually did Sylvanas a favor as well. During her journey in the Maw, she will eventually find Nathanos Soul; so she will, in the end, be reunited with her beloved
With the thought of "Necromancy is the art of animating unliving flesh" Would the Curse of Flesh also be a means of animation through flesh? Old Gods always just use flesh things, makes me wonder if their entire domain is "flesh" with tunnels to navigate regions. It does sound like nightmare fuel
It does tend to rewrite the nature of resurrection if Life and Death magic can achieve similar results, or possibly be used interchangeably to achieve a means or equivocacy. The resurrection that all players use to come back in the graveyards in Azeroth and Shadowlands, could be expanded or modified to allow for greater or lesser 'redemption' for the forsaken races or those lost in time in the Shadowlands. There could be a Plane of Astral travellers who can form themselves from Soul into Shadow/Void and back to the Light again, sic. or split themselves down the middle to have both sides integrated, sic. It's a "What Sword" moment, because you can bring all the old gods, the dragons, those races that did not have a good existence, right back to where they left off with their ideology and memories intact. A reboot, if not a New Game Plus moment. It also changes the Legion/Forsaken and possibly the outsider races (Draenei/Titans/) interacting with Azeroth too. We haven't really seen what Death Magic is used for, or what limits it has. If it's able to integrate Light, Shadow, Void, etc. It also may mean that the Forsaken can heal or be recast as human again, the possibilities are endless. We could see more Naaru or a City of Light (sic) as the arbiters or other Death races/forms. Especially now that Titan Azeroth is connected into the Death/Light/Void/Shadow sic. Perhaps this will be useful in the short term, IDK. ie. to resurrect or rebirth the forsaken under the light, instead of the banshees. We'd essentially be able to rebirth old souls into Azeroth or other planes. IDK. once you start merging or ignoring the foundation of magic and it's restrictions, you can have a continual set of growth to achieve whatever means you aspire to have.
I think flesh is just one thing that void prefers to manifest as, which is a phenomenon it shares with the domain of life. Perhaps because life is the most susceptible to void, which adds up. It doesn't preclude any necrotic magic though, as we see in Nazmir.
The only difference between vengeance and justice, is that one holds a regard for the scales being held even - While the other doesn't care if it goes too far, or causes "collateral damage" along the way. But in the end, the pursuit is much the same. Justice simply doesn't make excuses for the means.
@@JamailvanWestering I dont know, in Legion they did a good job in making her that " I'll do bad things so that my people and the horde would survive ". Even the burning of Teldrassil was a good idea and even though it's arguably not a good thing to burn down innocent, the way they first said it was " I was supposed to kill Tyrande and Malfurion to make it so the elves would be so desperate that they wouldn't engage in the war for Azerite. But some green idiot fucked it up ". But then they said " nah it was the plan all along ". Riot and retcons are synonymous but when it came to this specific character we went to that depressed person only wanting revenge to not as depressed and now wanting her people to survive to depressed and wanting everyone to die because the joker and bad writing.
@@professeurmythologeek7695 Sylvanus had always been about her own survival first. Sylvanus never treated The Horde as allies back when they first joined but more like necessary allies, The Horde used The Forsaken as a beach head in Eastern Kingdoms but did see them as equals, she never did. Need I remind you she kept producting and experimenting with the blight. She forced and jailed Koltira. She was driven by revenge until after the defeat from Arthas. What happened after that no one really knows because she stopped being involved or interesting as much. (I found her more annoying than interesting)
@@JamailvanWestering i'd argue that once again Legion showed something else. Not just some self centered goal but a true wish for the horde and the forsaken to survive, she said herself that when she tried to enslave Eyir she did because her people couldn't reproduce. And if she was just doing all this for her own self, she wouldn't sacrifice one of her banshee for Nathanos. And for Koltira, the guy was friend with a member of the alliance making him a possible spy so, he deserved it. I'm fairly certain that when they started working on Shadowlands they were like " Oh shit Sylvanas isn't that evil of a character, we need to make her sound like a bad cartoon vilain " and invented the whole thing with the bald bdsm death guy.
@@professeurmythologeek7695 she didn’t really change, basically she became more self centered (heck the Cenarion Circle and the Earthen Ring were looking for ways of curing them )
Knowing where are going and even knowing there is seemingly a spot open for it.....anyone besides me think a world tree will be grown on the Dragon Isles? Especially with Ysera's word about knowing a spot to plant the seed but it has been so long since she's been there?
I love how they did fuck all with Arthas even though he was directly influenced by the Jailer, but Sylvanas gets special treatment despite doing most things by her own will. If she was directly controlled by the Jailer, she wouldn't have turned against him.
9:12 gotta hand it to manduin, he speaks a very valid point................. a leader cannot expect their people to trust them, if the leader trusts not themselves
![The Story of The Jailer aka Zovaal [Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3gkKLfywZBI/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Story of The Jailer aka Zovaal [Lore]](/img/tr.png)
![The Story of The Dracthyr...So Far! [Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/f18p_VDeqro/mqdefault.jpg)
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
Tyrande should of also said to Sylvanas "Oh and no mounts, and you have a daily limit"
Sylvanas would have the Gob's "I've made a huge mistake" moment
I mean in theory she has to do it on her own, so the no Mount part might have just been implied.
A grammar tip it is "should have" no "should of".
@@cameronmcewen7192 - You're spamming every thread again.
@@cameronmcewen7192 - Calling you out for spamming because you're spamming is not the same as attacking or trolling. =) Grow up.
Ohh man, hearing Nobbles voice talking about WoW lore just hits different. Reminds me of good times and has a lot of nostalgia to it. It feels very comforting.
Makes me cry tears of joy.
The man has a voice as powerful as Morgan Freemans
CRINGE.
True that, mang, true that
@@TheCynicalB ok kid
I'm sorry but Tyrande doing the idle night elf dance during a deep and emotional talk with Ysera just sent me 😂😩
Omf, when will Blizzard remove that animation, ffs?! T^T They _know_ it's bad; they've not given it to anyone else, they cut it from the Nightborne, and they don't use it in a single cinematic, so they must know! Just axe it already! >-
@@seleuf wtf no. Cut it from Trynda or cut scenes but not from the nightelf
@@BleachRush Compromise: Cut as idle animation but add as /bounce
@@shamanicdude8605 Yes, hilarious and accurate ^^
Bahaha I was looking for this comment.
"Easy girl, tone it down"
"Then tell us the price, and it shall be paid"
* Proceeds to bounce in place *
That took me offguard
right? too much effort to delay the idle animation, or remove it for lore characters like that?
I went back to re-watch that. My throat hurts now from the chortle.
"No my friend... can... can you stop bouncing while I'm talking..."
"Look at me Ysera :D! I can bounce :D!"
Thank you Blizzard for dragging one of my favorite characters through the mud over so many years.
I've loved the sylvanas character since she stood next to varimathras and I had to collect an undead apothecary as a lowbie with no quest addons.
What a mighty character ruined by irresponsible writing.
I refuse to consider her lore, or any lore at all, between the start of bfa and the end of SL. We killed the Legion, Sylvanas dissappeared and we don't know why, now we're helping dragons, yay
@@sovereign126 exactly they didn't know what to do with their best female character, what a shame
@@elunaxalt yes love this
"All deserve a chance at redemption."
Arthas: 😠
It's so hard to take Tyrande's hardcore edge seriously when that she does that cute little night elf hopping
It reminds us she's still a night elf afterall lol
Yeah
I'm still kinda salty that she's a vengeful beast
lol I was just commenting about that with my friend, it is so funny.
Anduin has doubts about his faith in the Light because of being Dominated and now wants to take a break to figure stuff out? Damn if only there was someone who was strong in the Light, that also willingly contained Domination magic within himself to save the world, and was slowly being corrupted by it through the years, and also happened to be a mentor/father figure to Anduin. I'm pretty sure said character could really help Anduin find peace 🤔🤔🤔
(Yes, I'm still incredibly salty that Bolvar got reduced to a simple exposition man and Sylvanas punching bag and Blizzard won't explore more facets of his character like losing the Light and how the Dragonfire works, instead barely giving scraps of badly written family drama)
Maybe they'll explore the Dragonfire in DragonFlight?
@@tf2010zf That would actually mean they planned things. I would love to see this, and love to see better writing, but sadly somehow I doubt it will happen. Maybe they proof me wrong...
@@Rakshiir yeah I doubt it aswell tbh haha
Worse is that Anduin's case may lead to him becoming like Arthas, since Arthas' soul was used to dominate him.
I never played the end of SL, but are you telling me that Bolvar didnt fight or help Anduin?
I have to say, I've always been impressed by the range of Sylvanas' voice actress but damn, Tyrande's is incredibly good as well. She can portrait so much depth of emotion, I love it.
I would assume most voice actors can, but in WoW (and Warcraft 3) they're not really allowed to. They're always directed to be so subdued.
@@mokarokas-1727 For classic and the first three expansions, most of the voices were done by company staff just like that, so they didn't have professional voice actors.
@@rattlehead999 - This goes for Warcraft 3 too, it's not just that: they talk so quietly even when large emotions are expressed. Like they're trying not to wake someone up in the next room. :D That's not on the actor, that's on the director.
In terms of voice acting Blizz hired some talented people back then, who are still around.
It`s not only in Warcraft, but also Starcraft for example. Writing is not the best in WoW for some time, and SC also had some issues with the story in the end (in my opinion) but those voice actors sure do their best.
@@cameronmcewen7192 - And here you are again, with yet another account, spamming the same misinformation. You don't speak for any actresses, and there's no animated series in the works. Stop spamming.
Setting lore aside, its funny how Tyrande is hopping (the night elf idle animation) while Ysera explains to her the sacrifice needed to bring her back, and how her people need her.
She's just stimming, dw it means she's paying attention
Thank you so much for putting this together, Nobbel! I am ready to move beyond BFA and Shadowlands and hopefully into a better new storyline. This really helps put all those insane threads into a neat ball of yarn that I can tuck away somewhere. Excellent work, as always!
I've said it before and I'll say it again, this timeline is dead to me but I'll never stop watching the loremaster who inspired me to be better at learning azeroth's story and history. Besides, my timeline can always use the last glimmers of truly decent lore left in modern blizzard's trainwreck. Thank you for covering it, even though I'm sure you, like me are pained by what it has become
So
I get Sylvanas needed a fitting punishment
But sending 1 person to get everyone out of the Maw is a pretty shit deal for the people stuck there.
Imagine how many souls waiting in line to be help, and how long it will take. Sounds weird to tell that Tyrande really cares her people, like Uther says is it vengeance or justice they seek? Well, but Tyrande was always clear at first she seek vengeance lol
@@cameronmcewen7192 Vengeance is a cold knife, justice is an iron cell. One can be about as bad as the other if ya ask me but she deserved far worse.
I've a feeling they've done it this way so we'll "revisit" the the shadowlands in the future but I really pray they don't go "Muwahaha you thought she was redeemed but no she's in charge again!". I mean unlikely but... this is blizzard we're talking about.
Yep, really proves uthers point about justice vs vengeance. Now this will bite us in the ass so hard in the future, but ayy maybe then people will have different opinions on shadowlands.
@@arcamean785 Unlikely? I'm guessing you didn't see the reveal about the primus. We 100% are going to have to deal with this eventually.
Sylvanas’s punishment is what blizzard made us do in the first patch of shadowlands 😂
They were punishing us for hating BFA
@@BleachRush "so you said BFA was bad, eat shit now you wimp"
@@BleachRush "Oh you thought THAT was bad? Let's see how you feel after the next expansion we have in store"
Really hope the night elves get a brand spankin new Teldrassil planted in or near the dragon isles, which houses a "New Darnassus" and also a brand new Night Elf starting zone experience.
I'd rather they build up around Nordrassil. Night elves need to stop planting world trees, 3/4 of them turned out terrible for the world. Maybe they could reclaim felwood and turn it into something more in line with darnassus and the druid class hall.
Friggin greenies and their special tree here and special trees there, they are just tree's!
Long eared hippies!
@@nathans9764 THIS. Idk why tf they need a new tree. Like it makes sense as to why Teldrassil was planted (Fandral and his druids wanting their immortality back) but it makes absolutely no sense to have another one now. Just fortify Hyjal, work harder on purifying Felwood and because it's Dragonflight and Ysera's back, get her, Alexstrasza and Nozdormu (maybe even Kalec too since the highborne are back into night elf society, to make their mages more powerful) to bless Nordrassil again and make them finally reclaim their immortality and immunity to sickness and disease. They deserve it after the constant losses they've been enduring since the start of WoW
I like how Lillian’s speech about the undead being her family mirrors… I think it was Thassarian referring to Koltira Deathweaver where he said “we are brothers in death.”
Tyrand and Ysera are discussing something of the utmost importance....
and then Tyrande starts hoping.
I lost it 😂
"the flow of souls into the maw has stopped" > two min after, sylvanas jumps into the flow of souls going into the maw. The lack of care with details is very representative of everything related to lore in this expansion.
I'm pretty sure the flow is built into Oribos itself on the map file. It might be hard to remove it
@@Usagi33353 maybe, but one would assume this should have been the ending they were expecting to reach and be prepared for it (insert illidan meme here)
That's not the flow of souls, that's just the gateway to the Maw. For the Arbiter to send souls down there, should it choose so.
I think what he meant was no more souls will be sent to the maw , Sylvanas is only collecting them so they can be sent to their rightful afterlife
It’s an interesting point that Sin’dane makes about necromancy not being limited to Death magic, taking into consideration that we’ve seen every single one of the Six Forced being someone back to life: a naaru reanimating Calia, many instances of Void risen undead in BfA and Aegwynn bringing Medivh back by using Arcane power and sacrificing her own life essence to do so
It's pretty much common knowledge, I think, that cosmic beings can use any magic they learn. Why wouldn't a naaru resurrect Calia instead of reanimating her though, considering the contention between the Light and death?
I suppose it fits if death magic is the cheap and flawed way of doing it. If Calia was too important to the naaru for some reason, and didn't have enough power at hand for a full rez, it's good enough. That would make sense.
It could have also just been a case of, "Oh she's a major human figure, from Lordaeron, and she's not undead, that doesn't make any sense; she's undead now, fixed it, derp", which I really can't put past them.
what about the power of life magic? a life magic undeath sounds very wrong, i can imagine undead-like beings raised by life magic, but those wouldn't be undead, more like living things like roots or fungus or whatever moving a corpse like a marionette, but those things would be alive and the corpse would not be animated, it would only appear to be.
Like if you tried to use life magic to bring back someone i guess that either you bring them back as actually living beings and not undead, or you end up with your life magic changing to its opposite death magic in the process, in which case it would only be a overcomplicated way of normal death magic necromancy
One thing I wondered at, was why was Sylvanas allowed a graceful swan dive into the Maw, and I always fell down like a sack of spuds?
Loved the interaction between Calia and Lilian. Very heartening.
Lovely video, thank you! ❤
Lillian Voss is one of THE BEST characters and her story has been so fun to watch ever since she was 1st introduced.
Yup. As someone who played in Cata and played through the starting zone when she was first introduced, seeing her growth has been really cool.
I was always hoping that Lillian Voss would step into a leadership role for the Forsaken after Sylvanas left, I'm still not sure how I feel about a council, but at least Lillian is on it.
I dunno really, what "growth"? She had a nice arc coming to terms with herself in Cata+MoP, then came back out of nowhere in BfA as a military leader, mostly to sometimes drop in and say how hard it is to be Forsaken and why they deserve sympathy. Good thing, but not really character development.
@@mokarokas-1727 She went from cowering at her own reflection to a powerful assassin and champion of her people. That’s growth if I’ve ever seen it
@@AlunKahul - Oh for sure, but we haven't really seen the second part of this growth. It happened off-screen, she wasn't even part of the Forsaken when we last saw her before her popping up in BfA.
Yes! I have been depraved of my lore time for far too long, always helped me relax after a hard day
@@cameronmcewen7192I'll have to go take a look at the channel, but I also watch nobbel for lore now that he's returned
Tyrande's face at 2:42 really got me lol
ikr haha that derp face
like "problem sir?" with the problem face meme lol
you're a very brave and patient man, Nobbel - I don't think I would have the fortitude to discuss this toxic mess without breaking down half way through
So again: If Sylvanas actions really were her own, was it really the Jailor saying "all will serve" for the 15th time that tipped her off to this being a bad idea?
If you think she's telling the truth, you haven't paid attention. She was double speaking. Half of her soul was dominated, half was held hostage. She had ZERO choice, period.
Imagine this: I take the good half of your soul prisoner. Then I use magic to force your bad half to do as I demand. You are magically compelled, against your will, to do my bidding, therefore you "chose to do my bidding," because I forced you to choose that. So she is telling the truth...or at least...half of it.
Having ALL of herself now returned, NOW all her decisions are her own. So why would she double speak then, knowing full well the implications. Well, you see, little Casual, that is because she knows EXACTLY what Pelagos and Tyrande would do. She even states it: "Death would be merciful. But you aren't going to be merciful, Tyrande." Then what does Tyrande do? EXACTLY what Sylvanas said she'd do, NOT BE MERCIFUL. Sylvanas played Tyrande like a fucking fiddle. Sylvanas is EXACTLY where Sylvanas wants to be: The Maw. The source of her power. She is in charge now, or at least...she thinks she is. Or perhaps, she knows she's just the Jailers puppet, and that she replaced Zovaal. The thing is, Zovaal wasn't the Jailer, The Primus is. And he and Denathrius are very, very free now, and still plotting. Their scapegoat now used up, their plans only just completing phase 1 of their Ultimate goal.
You're going to be in for a wild punch to the gut when this all comes to a head. Sylvanas will be doing absolutely ZERO suffering or penance. She is either still Dominated, or choosing to serve one of, if not THE greatest mastermind in all of Reality: The Primus, who predicted absolutely everything, which means he also predicted this. Like it or not, this is the story. It's greater than people can clearly comprehend, and I can't wait to see the next phase of his masterplan. Zovaal seems like a shallow character not because he is, but because he is meant to appear that way. Blizzard's writers aren't stupid; this is all by grand design. All you have seen, is a fractal.
Sylvanas regained her free will after Illidan wounded the Lich King, and in Edge of Night, her corpse was re-reanimated with her entire soul. Disregard all the booolshiet.
Also, let's laugh our asses off how Blizzard continuously asserted, emphatically, all throughout BFA and Shadowlands that she was strong and independent, until they went back on it at the last second. 😂
I don't care if Syl is strong or not, these cop outs are just bad writing. At least they saved her in the canon for all her parasocial fans.
All will serve = everything dies at one point and by that comes under the rule of death, nothing else.
Also Sylvanas has more than enough reason to go against such a terrible system for mortals that leave no escape.
And while things didn't work out as she wanted, she still reached a lot and improved the system by a lot.
She kows, that none of her enemies would ever see that, so she just gives away her judgement to her biggest enemy, so none could say anything afterwards anymore - and by that close that chapter.
Wasn't perfect for her, afterall she had hoped for freeing mortals completely from these chains, but at least it's much better than before.
@@Levitiy Her soul is pretty whole, the little fragment she was given back still left a wound and when it rejoins, as it was frozen in time, it delivers an unique view on her whol way from ranger general to the banshee queen who was willing to sacrifice thousands and more to bring down the injust system of death.
Something her ranger general self is unable to understan of course, especially because it lacks all the insight her older self has earned - and was (de)formed by.
And no, it's no bad writign at all, you people just love to throw shit and got clearly no clue of good writing.
I never heared anything interesting from any of your crybabies. All that comes from you is "THAT'S SHIT! THAT'S SHIT! THAT'S SHIT!", so the standard social media degenerate.
@@miriamweller812 I'm glad someone gets it. Because it's either that, or she was intentionally infiltrating the Maw, to replace Zovaal one day. It's absolutely something she'd do. But maybe now that she has her other half of her soul again, her plans have changed. Her manipulative half was all we've seen since she threw herself off ICC in Wrath. It explains everything. Now she should be more like she was from her resurrection in WC3, all the way to ICC. It's a great way for Blizzard to return Sylvanas to how she used to be, so the next time we see her active in the min story again, she's gonna be instantly loved by the entire community all over again. I have and always will love her character, she's extremely interesting.
It still doesn't feel like they have a cohesive plot or are writing more than one content patch at a time. I'd be surprised if they know how they plan to end this new expansion or what the story of the story of the following expansion will be about. I'll come back to play the new expansion for about a month but I doubt the story or the end game will catch my attention.
oh man i love lilian voss , she feels so real the voice acting and how wise she is after all she went through
Shadowlands had alot of very great climaxes with well made cutsceens but they all end up feeling unearned, so little time too explain charackter motivation and actually showing whats happening. Its like the game we play and the story they show dont actually fit togheter
Thanks for the content. I stopped playing years ago, but I check in with you regularly so that I can keep up with the stories. Thanks for what you do.
After “Sylvanas” book hearing her say “little lion” somehow feel little different.
Can you elaborate a bit ? Sounds like those two have a connection ?
@@Trashloot In a book Sylvanas reminisce about the past and very often talk about her little brother Lirath Windrunner and how she feels like she failed him.
And most of the time she address him as "Little Lord Sun"--a nickname with similarities to her nickname for Anduin, "Little Lion." Between the nickname, golden hair, deep blue eyes, and similar mindset they very alike.
Shadowlands was such a slog for me I might never have known even half the lore to come out of there if not for people like you, Nobble. Thank you for compiling the good bits out of that expansion for us.
As much as the overall story of SL was…eh
I think the epilogue was really good. Still had issues but instead of one big wrap up, they made sure to have a wrap for every major story.
2:43
That's the face of someone VERY angry.
Haha, at the 22:00 mark Tyrande just starts hopping like a bunny in the middle of Ysera's heartfelt words.
Aaah the return of the legend I can finally enjoy the lore again no matter how memable it is ... THANK UU NOBBEL
So good to see you back. Planned my morning around listening to your 3 new videos while cleaning. :D Thank you Nobbel. Brilliant as always.
Oh boy. We just had a faction leader doubt himself out of his birthpower. Now Anduin will have so much doubt he'll turn to shadows for a while? Like Thrall with the Elements when he became a warrior for a while?
And he'll have a strange relationship with Sylvanas and quest chain that explains it and also further develops it and we'll have Sylvanduin babies in no time
@@bigthonk735
Well, the Windrunners seem to have this weird thing for human males. So it ain't that farfetched.
That said cuckolding Nathanos with Anduin could be such as bitch move that I can't see the new "good" Sylvannas doing it.
@@hisokamorow6709 did Nathanos hit tho?
@@bigthonk735
Somewhere I read that they did idd do the deed, something about she asking for his "company" at his "place".
Now if u ask me if the undead can bump uglies?
I wanna say yes, but probably not (question mark?)
I mean even if Nathanos PP doesn't work, he still got fingers and a mouth, am I right?
@@hisokamorow6709 especially if undead can exchange parts then he could be packing some shmeat
I hadn't even bothered watching these cinematics after the downhill stroll the lore took with the Jailer. Honestly though,that was good!
It did bring back emotions for Warcraft I thought long gone.Nobbel, I salute you sir!
I think that the lore got overshadowed by the Jailer and how poorly he was written. At it's core though, Warcraft has always been a really fun and simple fantasy story. Legion/BfA/Shadowlands has finally given Blizzard a chance to put all of those stories to rest and move on. A time skip is exactly what the universe needs. How will all of this play out and how will the new loose ends shake out? I don't know. Maybe it will be terrible, but I am excited to see regardless!
BFA cured me of ever touching this game again, but seeing what Shadowlands has done for the game still hurts. Might have been me but I noticed that sentiment in your voice in this video.
I do enjoy how the end of the Shadowlands went, much to the contrast of the rest of the expansion went. It feels much better imo
Tyrande bouncing in place while having a serious conversation with a former aspect of dreams....i can't.....🤣
Love the little jiggle tyrande does in the middle of that last cinematic lol
Oh thanks a lot.
I didn’t know there’s stuff about Tyrande at the end.
Anyways, I’m surprised that Nathanos went missing the entire expansion. Everything thought he would find Sylvanas in the Shadowlands.
Oh my god, I missed you so much. Thank you for coming back. I've recommended so many folks your way.
for as much of a trainwreck that is the SL story, i was surprised to see the 9.2.5 story concluding it in a satisfying way.
i like the improvement in actual lip syncing compared to even the beginning of this expansion
Thank you so much for these videos, i get so attatched to wow lore even if ive stopped playing the game for a bit. It's a great catch up.
God damn it, as much as I hate to say it, Sylvanas accepting her actions and not blaming it on the Jailer is pretty commendable.
For those that have read Brandon Sanderson's Oathbringer will perhaps recognize "You can not have my pain!" and how it can relate here somewhat.
Please don't ever compare Dalinar and Sylvanas again. Lol
But I see your point.
the only thing in shadowlands
that was ever good
but still
Battle for azeroth was better
and UGHHHHHHHHHH
REDEEM YOURSELVES BLIZZARDS
AND GET OUT OF MICROSFOT
wow that made me realize that the final sections of all sanderson stories have basically the same catchphrases
still gonna buy em though
@@OmniMon94 Get out of Microsoft? Genuinely not sure if you think Microsoft had anything to do with how bad Shadowlands was or not. But the truth is that no, Microsoft hasn't even touched anything Blizzard at all. This was all Blizzard's own mess. If anything I personally think that Microsoft will be able to save Blizzard from themselves. I mean they've legit done good with both ESO and my god the work they did to help Fallout 76 recover...
@@ras8472 oh ok
But did they fix EA
perhaps the only good thing to come out of Shadowlands, excellent lore videos from Nobbel so no one will ever have to play this wretched content ever again
Well I finally did it, I watched all 4 playlist of the lore. Thanks for keeping me busy while at work going to look into your other videos now!
So... the jailor's domination didn't fade when Anduin slamed his sword into the Archon. The domination paused because Anduin was actually enjoying and wanting to do it, so the domination did not needed to be used at that moment. Then he realised this and got probably confused or horrified or something that the domination kicked in again to control him.
Yes we do know that the light in Anduin was strong enough to resist the Jailor's power, and it manifested durring its raidboss fight to become free. Still back in the day Anduin was kinda bad boy, if you remember old classic when he was just a kid. Also harsh on the black dragonflight guy too, and slamed that shield troll to dust and was also indifferent of the bloodied sword too before Sylvanas. So yeah plenty of points to the dark side.
About Sylvanas. She was sadly a 1 dimensional character, but funny enough she actually got the only single thing she wanted, well 2 technically, okay 3, lol.
1. She saw Arthass in the Maw exposed to such punishment that she herself had some taste of that every action she ever did since served only a single purpouse, to avoid that fate in the maw. Now she is actually fully resurected living mortal with countless milenia ahead of her in a situation and power and knowledge that she literally cannot die as nothing there can ever hope to harm her, and even if she somehow managed to find difficulty, Tyrande of all people would need to intervene so she could resume the souls savings, and since this thing will last pretty much forever just means that shes set trough and trough to never experience herself the suffering and what she does is likelly not a torture or anything, also when she talked with Anduin it was clear that shes not phased by anthing down there or her job.
2. She will eventually find her love who got killed by Tyrande and she can reunite with him and probably share this near eternal toil and probably find many good moments with an even more eternal soul by her side, almost like a happy ending really. She even say herself this that she will find her love.
3. And lastly, she wanted revenge on Arthas for doing all that crap to her and her people. Which she kinda had, she had the opurnity to be the very last thing that ever connected to Arthas, and not just saw his actually full on death, but being contemt with forgiveness or anything you wannna call her finally being able to move on from this tragedy. And hey Arthas is 100% fully totally unreversabelly totally gone, not dead but litreally ereased from existence, yet shes still kicking, actually alive, and safe and sound with a lifetime job and potentially spending it with her hubby. She got the better ending, while Arthas had no saying or hope or choice and was actaully tortured for a lot long as time then her. So yeah.
Even funnier that due to her powers, she likelly way way outlive her sisters and all other humans or orks and pretty much everyone :D
Anduin has been characterized as an unwilling sovereign who isnt comfortable with absolute power, and The Super Lesbian is literally EVERYTHING he hates about his duties as an autocrat.
Nobbel, I cannot rightly express my thanks for you returning to explaining WoW lore. I fell out of love with WoW during BfA, struggled and failed to rekindle that love during Shadowlands. Still, I cannot give up on WoW. Maybe it is nothing more than the sunk cost fallacy, I cannot say. But as it stands, your lore videos are all that I have to keep the guttering flame of my faded affection for WoW going. I feel hopeful that Dragonflight will bring back that loving feeling if Blizzard will only leave Anduin and Sylvanis in the Maw long enough for the bitter taste of BfA and Shadowlands to fade.
I feel very frustrated watching this, seeing Shadowlands the entire expansion was made just to redeem Sylvanas. Blizz wanted to show Jailer as a greatest evil and source of our suffering, but instead of writing him as a interesting character, writers focused on writing him badly enough to force Sylavans to betray him. Even the death of Big Bad Warcraft wasn't the culmination of the Great Warcraft Saga but instead Judgment of Sylvanas. Uther, Anduin, Tyrande, almost every cinematic in last 2 years was supposed to make us feel sympathy for her, but she missed that opportunity when she looked at the burning Teldrasill in one of the most expensive BFA cinematic, with a smile on her face. We've wasted two years make her a Villain and next two we was forced watch like writers try to fix it. Honestly I don't wanna Sylvanas to come back. She was the face of two most controversial Expansion in terms of lore. Let them not kill her, but she cannot come back. She may appear like an easter egg, but her return will do more harm than good.
you traumatized? lmao
jokes aside i personally dont care if she comes back or not, i can see good in both so long as its well written, she can just be a different character from now on and letting her rest for 1 (preferably 2) expansion (s) probably would do good to detach her renewed perspective from the garbage we were served since BFA and SL, so i do think that her returnal could add to the story again, but only if blizz let her rest and make something refreshing about her, also never again put the spotlight on her, coz that has proven to be a bad idea
it doesn't help that during the bfa storyline the lead writer Kinda just went off the deep end and said screw the future and did whatever he wanted
Not the most “controversial” expansion, the *worst* expansion.
Shadowlands was a gigantic heap of discount versions of things we already had, but that they insisted were somehow better. "Titan +++" entities with identical roles to titans. Rip off scourge, rip off emerald dream, rip off holy afterlife and High Heavens from d3... it just feels like an insult to everything that already existed for them to push so God damn hard about how vital these things are. How "everything you like is dependent on them." But then you read the lore of places like the Emerald Dream, and you realize it's prior lore before Shadowlands already had it perform every function of Ardenweald on its own. Everything they made was reductive to the things we knew about. Sargeras, the mad titan? Well he's just a pawn of Zovaal the Mad Eternal One.
Their handling of the Sylvannas treatment compared to how they handled Arthas and his legacy are the best examples of this to me. They were willing to steamroll everything that made his story interesting to try and salvage her lol.
Considering there's a timeskip, she's 100% coming back, sadly.
I have to say, I wouldn't think I would grow to like Calia Menethil's story. I think they did a good job with it.
He did the thing!! He did the thing and did the "Hallo Everyone!"
Seems like the end of Shadowlands isn't nearly as terribly written as the exp itself. And you just know they'll bring Ysera and Sylvannas back one day
I'm glad blizzard woke the fuck up on that killing character off was a bad idea, they brought Illidan back and put him on the shelf, in case of emergency, so it's Yzera and Sylvannas.
They brought ysera back
I'm glad I have Nobel to explain this. The story was very confusing.
So happy to have you back man!! much love
I think at some point Silvanas and Ilidan will come back and side by side will help us for something big, maybe in the next expansion, another big character will leave us and return in the future with Ilidan and Silvanas
I wanna shit show scenario. i.e
"We were all lied to, all the 6 "pantheons" are out for their own, light, shadow, death, etc, it matters not, our only allegiance is to ourselves and by proxy, Azeroth"
An expansion in which WE are the aggressors and bring the axe to other realms.
Thank god they ended Illidan on the best last expansion (Legion) Imagine if he went along BFa and Shadowlands, he would become a cuck like Bolvar and every other "Body type 1" Character
🤣🤣
So its confirmed we get a timeskip, 3 years? I kinda had hoped for longer. Like a decade or more, give the time to come up with some actually original characters, villians and storylines
When you consider the whole of WoW's lore happened over the span of seven years, "just" three years is a pretty big timeskip. Imagine if you had been frozen in time during the BC expansion, and then you wake up with the Lich King dead, Azeroth shattered and disfigured here and there and a freaking race of Pandas which was thought to be a legend now part of your own Faction. Oh and you also have an Invasion coming from beyond the Dark Portal, AGAIN, but this time it comes from Past Draenor.
@@Lorfo11 yeah not a fan of the 7 years either considering the multiple world wars, apoclypses etc its just a strange time management for so many events, makes it feel like the previous events had no meaning
@@TheHorreK2 I can get behind WoD taking barely a year :') But for everything else, it's pretty damn short.
As the Lich King is returning soon, so has the king of lore returned to us with a little lore snack
This seed stuff... just feels so empty to me. Souls that, per lore we had for over a decade, never should have even gone there but stayed on Azeroth? This dependency of Shadowlands to give the Night Elves any kind of renewal, when they are a people who picked themselves up from worst events in their past than anything in WoW, without really needing divine intervention so much as guidance and wisdom to rebuild. Years of having our lore and characters trashed, and they simply try to throw us another world tree, ignoring that the actual narrative of Teldrassils history was against the arrogance of planting new world trees at all... I mean, I'm sure it'll graphically be pretty. But seems like it will fly in the face of the original meaning of the lore its trying to rip off, where they could have just remembered OG night elf lore and returned their focus to Nordrassil.
Shadowlands, and the minds that allowed it to exist in these forms even outside its main story, are gonna haunt this setting and games story until the end I reckon.
Yep, cleansing of Felwood and settling of Mount Hyjal. Night Elves are a people, not a tree. Decimated as they are, there will be plenty of room for them without one. I would rather see them and the Forsaken splitting from the Alliance and Horde to focus on rebuilding on their own.
@@mikfhan hell if we wanna just avoid the issue entirely of a small population like they do with Tauren or Darkspear, just have a lot of hidden villages throughout the regions that saw how absurdly suspicious Fandral and Teldrassil were and just stayed in their communities. The maps, especially vanilla era ones, aren't comprehensive, they can't possibly be.
So wait a minute.. does that mean that Bolvar was raised into undeath using necromancy but with fire magic instead of death magic or light magic? The margrave said that necromancy is necromancy no matter what type of magic is used.. did Alexstraza use necromancy?
he didnt even die. hes not undead as far as i know. he got infected with the plague, was about to die and then alextrasza came and burned him and the plague, but the fire of the red dragons is a form of life magic kind of :D thats my take at least.
I don't think so, Bolvar's body was being ravaged by Putress' blight and the heat of Red Dragonflight flames (while they have been described as having both purifying and rejuvenating properties, the renewal is mostly shown to affect plant growth). As a paladin, he may have attempted to heal/purify himself, further adding to an already unstable/uncontrolled mixture of magical energies. I suspect the end result was that in healing damage done by the flames and blight, the magic(s) were focused on 'preservation of life' rather than truly healing Bolvar's body, and so countless patches of scar tissue formed.
I think that he didn't actually die, so he wasn't raised to undeath by necromancy, but rather 'lowered' to a state between life and death 'equivalent' to undeath.
I don't think it was wittingly. So kinda.
The dragonfire and blight probably transmuted each other's effects in the time it took to burn the fumes away.
Krasus/Korialstrasz raises a man from undeath (temporarily) in the books for information, and mentions that life and death are two sides of the same coin. Dragon life magic isn't much different from the other kinds available, it's just more primal. That said, I don't think Bolvar died and was resurrected so much as "prevented from dying". You know, like dragon-spiced beef jerky. Which might be why he's so mad about it.
Technically he never died; he just almost died.
You forgot to mention Calia's letter to Genn Greymane. Only Alliance players got that part.
That poor owl lol.
goshhh, so happy to hear you again!!!
@21:55, Tyrande hopping around makes me think she s so excited to imagine Ysera back in Azeroth again like a little child :P
God I missed this. Thanks Nobbel your the best I love you and your voice and your work.
3:25 Baine sneezing in the background
Thank you for this vid, it’s like some of the best you used to make, keep it up, please!
Now they've given dark ranger customization to the elven races, even though they're Forsaken. Still think it's crazy the Forsaken are limited to human corpse skins... they've been more than the lost of Lordaeron since TBC ish. I get others would cry because they'd have the most versatile options being most of the original races, but it's crazy now that we have canonically added new elven undead to the Forsaken.
It’s nice how the cinematic quality is better
Welcome back Nobbel!🎉🎉
I am glad they set it up this way because it sets up a possible return to the Maw for players to perhaps aid her.
I like when Slyvanas calls Anduin Little Lion at the end. Its probably the first time she said it out of respect and not intended as a insult.
Not optimistic about Turalyon as King.
I missed the end of Shadowlands but LOVED Dragonflight and never knew what happened. So I'm making a start on The War Within and wandering whatever happened to Sylvanas. When I first started in WotLK, my first friend I met in game LOVED her character, so im always wondering how shes doing
Just realized they could have made Sylvanas sentence approximately ten times more satisfying with a single line (and accompanying retcon):
"-until the final soul is free, and you are all that remains. Even Arthas will see mercy before you."
Arthas' soul doesn't exist anymore. It was so used up by Kingsmourne that it literally evaporated.
The only real problem I have with this lore is the Uther line about "do the want Justice or Vengeance?" Sylvanus started a war with the specific intention to transfer all the souls of the dead to a place where they'd suffer eternal torment all to provide "fuel" to a being that was going to unmake reality. Even those she didn't have a direct hand in killing (which would be in the millions maybe?), she was still part of a plot that consigned tens (or maybe even hundreds) of millions of souls across the universe to that fate. Not sure looking down on the victims who are like "please just execute this evil person" is a good look for good old Bluther, especially since Sylvanus herself admits that she wasn't influenced to do it, she did it all with her own free will when given the possible out by the Arbiter. What she did was literally the most evil thing that anyone has probably ever done in the entire Warcraft Universe...getting the death penalty hardly seems like an over-reach of authority.
Why the hell do so many people continue to call her 'Sylvanus'?
watching this again, ... People complained about how the Crown of Wills looks, and it is indeed pretty scuffed, but as the Arbiter has to Wear it, the Design has to be somewhat fitting to that.
Also keeping the Lich Kings Helmet would completly obscure the Arbiters Head, that wouldn't have worked.
Also Sylvanas beeing the only Elf having proper Pupils, while every other Elf's Eyes just glow in different Colours.
Wow, he's back. Huh. Sweet.
Great video, as always 👍
i missed this content so much
A masterpiece. Well done Storyteller.
If the time in the maw is different, a year on Azeroth can be a very long time in the Maw. Sylvanas may come back in Midnight because it's elf time.
Dude the Calia part HITS HARDDD
another expansion ended and all kept up to speed because of this channel
Thanks for the lore. ^^
Since I first heard her song in Vanilla, I have pledged myself to Sylvanas. I have trusted that she knew what she was doing, and had a greater reason for doing it. There should be daily to help her collect souls in the Maw, keeping a count across all players, alts, and servers. I would be there first thing every morning, serving my Dark Lady! #simp4Sylvanas
Just noticed that Anduin called Gen 'Old Wolf'. That was something that Sylvanas called Graymane. Maybe Sylvanas DID leave the Maw, she is a banshee after all. Left the Maw inside of Anduin.
no one gives Genn respect in the alliance because he doesnt deserve respect. Anduin is a Pacifist who has had to come to terms with the difference between Inaction and restraint. Tyrande is a warlord who has ruled for thousands of years. the Council of 3 hammers have two veterans of the Third war and a girl who when the books are closed and doors are locked will admit about the only thing she didnt fuck up was her love life and that she wishes she could do better for her son. Gelbin has been a battle engineer since the Second War, and Velen when hes angry is unhinged enough that even in blind rage tyrande would tell him to calm the fuck down.
Genn hid behind thick walls and tried to ignore the world burning down around him for 30 years. the literal sole reason hes an active agent in the narrative is that Sylvanas killed the son that had enough balls to actually lead from the front lines and risk his life, something Genn had never done.
I kinda like Pelagos... Especially the "... whether any actions taken withtin that span of time could truly be worthy of eternal torment".
Tyrande actually did Sylvanas a favor as well. During her journey in the Maw, she will eventually find Nathanos Soul; so she will, in the end, be reunited with her beloved
With the thought of "Necromancy is the art of animating unliving flesh"
Would the Curse of Flesh also be a means of animation through flesh?
Old Gods always just use flesh things, makes me wonder if their entire domain is "flesh" with tunnels to navigate regions.
It does sound like nightmare fuel
It does tend to rewrite the nature of resurrection if Life and Death magic can achieve similar results, or possibly be used interchangeably to achieve a means or equivocacy. The resurrection that all players use to come back in the graveyards in Azeroth and Shadowlands, could be expanded or modified to allow for greater or lesser 'redemption' for the forsaken races or those lost in time in the Shadowlands. There could be a Plane of Astral travellers who can form themselves from Soul into Shadow/Void and back to the Light again, sic. or split themselves down the middle to have both sides integrated, sic.
It's a "What Sword" moment, because you can bring all the old gods, the dragons, those races that did not have a good existence, right back to where they left off with their ideology and memories intact. A reboot, if not a New Game Plus moment. It also changes the Legion/Forsaken and possibly the outsider races (Draenei/Titans/) interacting with Azeroth too.
We haven't really seen what Death Magic is used for, or what limits it has. If it's able to integrate Light, Shadow, Void, etc. It also may mean that the Forsaken can heal or be recast as human again, the possibilities are endless. We could see more Naaru or a City of Light (sic) as the arbiters or other Death races/forms. Especially now that Titan Azeroth is connected into the Death/Light/Void/Shadow sic. Perhaps this will be useful in the short term, IDK. ie. to resurrect or rebirth the forsaken under the light, instead of the banshees. We'd essentially be able to rebirth old souls into Azeroth or other planes.
IDK. once you start merging or ignoring the foundation of magic and it's restrictions, you can have a continual set of growth to achieve whatever means you aspire to have.
I think flesh is just one thing that void prefers to manifest as, which is a phenomenon it shares with the domain of life. Perhaps because life is the most susceptible to void, which adds up. It doesn't preclude any necrotic magic though, as we see in Nazmir.
The only difference between vengeance and justice, is that one holds a regard for the scales being held even - While the other doesn't care if it goes too far, or causes "collateral damage" along the way. But in the end, the pursuit is much the same. Justice simply doesn't make excuses for the means.
Sylvanas really went from interesting morally grey character to a bad vilain.
Her becoming a villain was always bound to happen.
The problem was more in to what type of villain they turned her in
@@JamailvanWestering I dont know, in Legion they did a good job in making her that " I'll do bad things so that my people and the horde would survive ". Even the burning of Teldrassil was a good idea and even though it's arguably not a good thing to burn down innocent, the way they first said it was " I was supposed to kill Tyrande and Malfurion to make it so the elves would be so desperate that they wouldn't engage in the war for Azerite. But some green idiot fucked it up ". But then they said " nah it was the plan all along ". Riot and retcons are synonymous but when it came to this specific character we went to that depressed person only wanting revenge to not as depressed and now wanting her people to survive to depressed and wanting everyone to die because the joker and bad writing.
@@professeurmythologeek7695 Sylvanus had always been about her own survival first.
Sylvanus never treated The Horde as allies back when they first joined but more like necessary allies, The Horde used The Forsaken as a beach head in Eastern Kingdoms but did see them as equals, she never did.
Need I remind you she kept producting and experimenting with the blight.
She forced and jailed Koltira.
She was driven by revenge until after the defeat from Arthas. What happened after that no one really knows because she stopped being involved or interesting as much.
(I found her more annoying than interesting)
@@JamailvanWestering i'd argue that once again Legion showed something else. Not just some self centered goal but a true wish for the horde and the forsaken to survive, she said herself that when she tried to enslave Eyir she did because her people couldn't reproduce. And if she was just doing all this for her own self, she wouldn't sacrifice one of her banshee for Nathanos.
And for Koltira, the guy was friend with a member of the alliance making him a possible spy so, he deserved it.
I'm fairly certain that when they started working on Shadowlands they were like " Oh shit Sylvanas isn't that evil of a character, we need to make her sound like a bad cartoon vilain " and invented the whole thing with the bald bdsm death guy.
@@professeurmythologeek7695 she didn’t really change, basically she became more self centered (heck the Cenarion Circle and the Earthen Ring were looking for ways of curing them )
Knowing where are going and even knowing there is seemingly a spot open for it.....anyone besides me think a world tree will be grown on the Dragon Isles? Especially with Ysera's word about knowing a spot to plant the seed but it has been so long since she's been there?
The voice syncing in the cinematics is so smooth it's sexy
I love how they did fuck all with Arthas even though he was directly influenced by the Jailer, but Sylvanas gets special treatment despite doing most things by her own will. If she was directly controlled by the Jailer, she wouldn't have turned against him.
Tyrande's face is bugging out hard at 2:44. We have Tyrande at home 😆
Great video thanks for sharing!
9:12 gotta hand it to manduin, he speaks a very valid point................. a leader cannot expect their people to trust them, if the leader trusts not themselves