My crackpot theory is that; Whilst he broke free of his chains in the Maw and learned to use the power, no one had the ability to jail him again. With his newfound power he was referred to as the jailer by the rest of the covenant leaders who knew of his existence, but unable to do anything about him with their own conflicts. The way this information may have spread [because no one can leave the maw] is through Denathrius since at this time he was considered trustworthy but most likely working with Zovaal. Alternative idea; He's called the jailer by everyone who does not know of his prior arrangement as the arbiter or his original name Zovaal. And anyone that we would meet that would refer to him by that name goes along with the players presumption of his new name. Not likely wanting to say his real name/call him the arbiter since that is no longer a position he holds and would have to explain their prior relationship which makes them look shady. Our first experience with Zovaal as a player was him imprisoning people we know, therefore it's a monicker given likely by Azerothians to Zovaal.
@@rasmachris94 This don't really work since he is still trapped i nthe maw and thus cant get away from it thus jailed in it so he is still jailed in the maw at the start of SL, so this theory dont work =p There is issues with a lot of your points, first the covenents leaders are not in conflict, they started only when the Primus got captured, also, the convenents were still confident that Zovaal was trapped in the maw and wouldnt go away. Another term they used was the bannished one which also show you the issue, they call him the bannished one and the jailer at same moment... And more likely, i think you are trying to find a justification with theory that you are not meant to do, if he is caleld hte Jailer its because it would be dumb to fight a dudue called the Jailed...its only Blizz doing marketing there is no theories behind it.....or there will be if you continue your meddling and blizz see your message....since its how they do story since a while now.
The amount of disdain in your voice during the whole video was comical knowing full well how you feel about this last expansion. Welcome back man. Plus on a brighter note this is like the most positive comment section of any video I've ever watched, we've got a good Community here.
Yeah, he becamse a cry baby, for what reason ever. Hell, should just stop to make such videos at this point, they are utter garbage like that anyway. It's not the story's fault, that's clear. I watched other lore guys and none of them had the problem as he does. It's HIS problem to just want to see it that way. I don't get what's hard to understand with the WoW story. It fits together quite well and that you got some hickups here and there is no surprise, when you got such a massive story going on over 20 years, it's absolute impossible to plan all of that. This in mind, it's astonishing how they make it work. Meanwhile in the game I mainly played the last decade, FF14, the world building is utter crap, the protagonists are Mary Sues, the antagonists are forced to be incompetent idiots and they never even try that anything makes any sense. But for some reason people praise that pile of garbage (without being able to explain it), while they hate on the WoW story for no reason. Overall Warcraft story isn't that much of my taste, but it does not have to be to accept the quality and to understand it. If you don't understand the Shadowlands story and the characters inside, you really must be an idiot, because it's really not hard. Maybe people should do something for their intelligence instead and stop playing games for a while, I don't know... Or just try to use their brain and not just hate on something like a grumpy child.
@@miriamweller812fit together? Not that bad? Interesting? For someone claiming to be more intelligent than the “grumpy babies” you seem to be the most blind out of all of us my friend. We didn’t hate shadowlands because we didn’t understand it, we hate it because we understood that it was boring, uninteresting horse manure.
Ach, the magnificent loremaster is back! Thank you for not abandoning your acolytes! Considering the state of lore... Let's just say, I'm really glad you're back. You've been missed!
We have to refuse this lore. Whatever garbage the current blizzard writers came up with - it has nothing to do with the original warcraft lore we all loved. To the contrary: its a desecration of it. But I also hope that Nobbel continues. Maybe he could draw a line between "this is what current blizzard says" and "this is what old blizzard said". That could help him moving on, without undermining his principles.
@@lxTxl jesus, living in denial is a insane practice. continuing to sub and buy blizzard is exactly why things will never change or get better for the company or player base.
I mean the lore is just not interesting anymore, not at all in any shape or form, all the interesting things that made the story fun in the recent expansions are the things that have been written years ago by really good writers, they haven't written anything new and good at all, that's why anything that's not related to the original books are garbage, I don't understand why it's so hard for them to hire talented and skilled people, there are so many amazing writers out there s^%$ing wind.
@@oldmasterspice Yeap there is people who keep eat spoon by spoon of sand and keep nod hoping for some sort of improvement... Yet they don't understand the improvements will born as the game will get closer and closer to it's demise... There blizzard should make a choise... Keep up and shoot themself in their feet once again or MAYBE try to change their practice. Still is such a shame a lot of stuff got retconned and for worse, let alone "sylvanas is no garrosh 2.0!" yet they kinda played it like that with a "twist!" (the redemption ark! wich nobody expected apart from all)
The issue with the Jailer is he just inherited his deeds - we got told he was responsible for everything but no build up, he was an undeserving villain. Furthermore, the fact we basically just hit a big reset button in the form of the Shadowlands not really changing, Pelagos becomes arbiter, the covenant leaders now talk to each other but that's it makes us as players feel even less accomplished. I came back to shadowlands at the end of season 3 (like 6 weeks of season 3) to hang with friends and half the story quests felt like all the NPCs got the story content and I was the mcguffin.
At this point, the players *are* the McGuffin. I'll take the polished look and feel of (most of) WoW as it is now, but the mystery and, thus depth, of the original. I'm leveling a rogue through WoD and... damn it's pretty! But, visuals alone don't make a good game.
The jailer did all this for the reason that he either learned about the threat of the Abyss that would swallow both the great beyond darkness and the Dark Lands, or he learned about another threat, but I think it was the Abyss. Zovaal could not tell anyone about anything because he could know how they would react to this, and therefore he could try to solve everything quietly and on his own, secretly from everyone, until it no longer matters. But all the leaders of the Covenant found out what he was up to and eliminated him, which Zovaal knew from the very beginning. In the case of Sargeras, he himself told everything to his brothers and sister, hoping for help and understanding, but did not receive it and then killed them all, and in the case of Zovaal, he knew that it was impossible to tell anyone, and yet the brothers and sisters revealed him and in in some sense, it was THEY who eliminated him, not HE them, as it was with Sargeras. Zovaal as an Arbiter, after many ages of his duty, could understand that the best way to save all things from the all-consuming threat of the Void Lords would not be faith in living beings, in their intelligence and their potential (which they never use correctly) but submission all sentient beings to Zovaal's own will, in order to control their minds in order to control their bodies and thoughts, so that in the end they do what Zovaal needs to protect them all from oblivion from the Void Lords. Zovaal could understand that to rely on mortals and believe in their potential - to educate them, to direct them in the right direction is simply pointless, not all mortals will understand why it is necessary to do this or something else, not everyone will want to follow the right paths and ways to achieve success in something, besides, many just want power, etc., so in a sense, the "divided space" really will not stand against the common threat. That is why Zovaal wanted to subordinate all living life and souls to his will, not only to more successfully defeat the coming devouring of the abyss, but also to save the bodies and, most importantly, the souls of mortals in integrity, so that later they would again quietly exist, for Zovaal would return control over them to them. themselves after the threat is defeated
Love how your videos surrounding specific characters tend to be 40+ minutes long, then the Jailer's is just 15. Really shows how bad of a character this guy was.
Yeah like some artifact weapon backstories from legion that were tweaked or extended just for purposes of expansion, have more deepth and content than Zovaal story
I really wish they'd have switched the aestetic of Zovaal and the Primus. Imagine sylvanas being tricked into helping this poor, old, neglected, misunderstood former leader of the shadow lands. The former arbiter who "valued the souls of the dead". Who was over thrown by a pantheon that now "takes away your choice" and "forces you into eternal servitudes of their design"! and then for Zovaal to be the aspect of Maldraxxus: simple, strong, walking frostmourne. Much better deathknight fantasy, and a bigger reason for Sylvanas to be against Maldraxxus (in addition to the other zones) because it would remind her so much of Arthas.
And it was supposed to be like that until late development. Even trailer for Shadowlands has Sylvanas flying in front of Primus silouette, looking like the Runecarver. They just retconned it and changed the plot for Primus to be the good guy. Thats why theres theories that He actually orchestrated all of the story in SL, his captivity, and defeat of Zovaal which we did for him.
I feel a lot of people are misreading what Zovaal means behind the words "A universe divided will not survive" is not directly just aimed at a "larger cosmic enemy" but also pointed at the very nature of life itself, the constant struggles and wars between species leading to further destruction death and pain, the constant needless loss of life, waste of resources, the genocides and more. If he could forcibly unite everyone to submit, it would all stop. It would be a perfect functioning machine with no more decay. The end and breaking of a broken cycle.
Ultimate stability, everlasting, never changing - just like death itself. At the cost of an ultimate loss of all freedom, forever. With no more chance for escape. Is *this* worthy of being called "life" still? What is the point of existence, for the mere "purpose of existing" itself? Isn't life more than existing? And isn't that a self serving purpose of Zovaal? He would be the only one with free will, who can be a free *living* being. While everyone else is bound to his will, like slaves are bound to their masters' chains - and like the dead are bound to their tombs. How is this "existence" different from death, when you are bound like this? Did Zovaal maybe fear his own death, which he did foresee if the Universe would end? Rather than giving his life to a higher order and freedom to the souls beneath him, he decided to sacrifice everyone elses freedom, to preserve his own life and with it: his own freedom. As he would be bound and unfree for all eternity, by death. Just like he planned to do for all of creation. Instead of letting it go, accept death as the ultimate fate of this world, himself, everyone - but also letting everyone live freely, for the time given. Maybe it is our free will, that makes a difference, like a line in the sand - whether you "live".... or merely "exist". In my oppinion, having no own will anymore is like death. Speaking from personal experience. The only hope or difference between this existence and death was the conclusion, that death will come anyways sooner or later, so I might as well give it the time being despite the suffering. And because my family which I did not want to hurt. Dark times of severe depression between 04 and 08, before I felt that little spark of "life" in myself again. Like cinder, burried under the ashes, but still glowing...
I guess it would make sense for Zovaal to be good at predicting the future. He spent half an eternity watching the choices and actions every single sentient creature in the universe when he judged them to an afterlife. Having to watch all of that must've made him good at understanding people
Great to have you back Nobbel, sorry you had to dig in and research the lore of the Jailer. Like scraping open a dried turd: once you get started, it really just starts to stink.
Glad to see you return, personally, I've decided to cut this expansion straight from the fabric. The True King Arthas, is still out there, unblemished and untainted by the foul corruption of Steve Da-loser.
This is all nzothts dreammare, even time lost is a lot of nothing, like heroes sleepover it. But as every dream, some things came true. Just few are aware of it, and LK is now again tought dead buuut he aint bc “There Must Always Be A Lich King”. My lorehead tl dr Sry for English
Would you ever consider making a video on what you’d have done differently with the shadowlands? You’re arguably the untouched master of wow lore, so it would be interesting to see! Happy to see you back ❤️
@@TheGerrok I may be wrong, but quite sure this time wouldn't work out regardless of how you tell that story. What would it be? The main focus of that story was "another big bad", i just wish they have had gone with "fuck life and death", by the start of the shadowlands he was going to be Thanos style, killing half so the other half could survive, but Jailer's motivation was litterally his last phrase. So yes, could've been better, but in the end once the "veil" is lifted, it would still feel bad. Dare i say it would be even worse if i was well told (We kinda knew from bfa that it would probably be bad). btw, my english sucks.
@@VictorMachadoThundermight I think you touched on the problem, they didn't make a character. You can make him one dimentional at the beginning, but show a short cutscene and reveal something about him. Then another something later. And a small piece later. It doesn't take much before you get an actual interesting bad guy. Just look at how quickly they built up Sire D.
I’ve been in love with the Warcraft lore since Warcraft 2. The whole reason I’ve played WoW besides the amazing stylization of the game and character and story build up from inception was the lore itself. Seeing everything build even if it was quirky. I stopped playing in Legion and hoped for a N’Zoth story and was at the same time impressed yet sad. But still your videos kept me coming back. Everything you do is a reason to keep hoping for Warcraft. Your love and continued support for the lore is what keeps me engaged in a game I love. I’m really happy you’re back and I’ll always support and watch your videos.
Honestly I haven't played shadowlands enough to rage as hard as everyone about the lore so I'm pretty distant. Which is why I appreciate these recaps like this. Thank you for making this! I now understand so much more - seems rare for anyone to pour out Shadowlands lore cause everybody hates it / doesn't understand it enough to share it. So I appreciate this since I don't have time to experience all the lore myself. I can see how this is frustrating lore, but from your recap I kind of dig what I see. I'll accept that I'm part of the 0.00000001% of people with that opinion... Just know I am into the story you just showed here! Excited for the future stuff about Anduin etc!
Regardless of what character it is, having the Loremaster back is incredible. My leveling soundtrack and wealth of knowledge regarding WoW lore is back!
Iiiiiiitsss happening! Glad you are back at this. But of course understand how you are feeling about things with WOW! I’m sure it is echoed by many, myself included. So thank you for doing this, so I don’t have to go though it myself.
Very happy to see your return. Your TH-cam channel is by far the channel I've watched longest. I get to get you on twitch sometimes. But listening to your videos at work has always been the main way I catch your content. So very happy to see you back.
You almost made me like his story, but oh boy, it's really your voice and diction that helped... That was so much thanos that I feared marvel would sue blizzard. Thank you for your video tho ! your voice is still the best one to hear any story from.
...And then on this side over here you have Emet-Selch, to absolute destroy the argument that the Jailer never had enough time to shine as a villain or even a character.
- Endwalker Spoilers - ---------------------------------- I feel like an even better example is Meteion who had even less screentime then Emet and the Jailer with half an expansion without patches, was the character who put all of the story's events into motion for the finale and introduced last-minute and yet is still a much better character compared to the Jailer with an actual motive and reasoning that resonates with the tone of Endwalker.
@@jacktconnor It wasn't just Meteion, but Meteion and her countless sisters. We only got a few lines from the different sisters in the hivemind, and even then you can get an idea of what they went through or what they experienced.
@@F34RDSoldier805 Exactly! Despite them only being introduced in Endwalker the writing does really well to give you their perspective, Ultima Thule especially with how raw that zone gets. It's why I don't buy into the whole "The Jailer didn't have enough screentime" as they certainly did, but all of it was needlessly cryptic and what is revealed confuses the plot more then giving answers for a supposed finale.
@@jacktconnor We knew Meteion/her sisters for ~3 hours and perfectly understood her motivation, personality, relationships, and were present when she fell from grace, and it still all fit into the lore without retconning anything. WoW can't even make an antagonist without falling into the "mwahahaha Im evil because I can" trope.
I'm a big WoW lore fan, I have all WoW related books, Chronicles, guides, novels, everything. I read them all. I've never been so disappointed with the villain like I'm with this dude. I just want to forget he ever existed, like I want to wake up in some quiet inn in Azeroth and realize that it was just a bad dream. I don't know if I'll ever recover from the devastation that is the destruction of my favorite character, Sylvanas.
I was not expecting it to be a 3 part long series with each part's length 40+ mins, but you actually went all out on this one, thanks to the GREAT material Blizz writers provided for this ultimate character in the whole Warcraft. After all, this is the character that choreographed ALL the major events in Warcraft's history. Including the great wars, creation of the Burning Legion, multiple invasions, creation of the Lich King/Queen etc. etc.. So, when are the rest of parts coming? 🤔🤔
I love the idea of the Jailor and the Maw, heck I even love the Maw/Mawsworn aesthetic, but they could have done a much better job at telling it's story because it was kind of sloppy.
@@soaringturkeyvulture7506 it does heavily resemble the Morgul style. Which is one of my favorite fantasy aesthetics. That's why I was so quickly drawn to it.
Great video @Nobbel! Yeah this Jailer guy will probably be forgotten by the WoW playerbase. He could have been an interesting villain if they had fleshed him out more.
I love the jailer, best character blizzard have ever made, can't wait for shadowlands classic to replay this expansion already! Thanks for covering what's maybe the best fictional character ever created in history!
Happy to see the lore man back. That said, I still wouldn't go through as many mental gymnastics for the Jailor.. It shits on any modestly interesting previous lore tbh. Besides that, absolutely love this channel, and we all share the sentiment about the Jailor & probably danuser /shrug lmao Edit: audibly laughed at 12:34, anyone else too?
2:00 The slow, robust claps turn into a vigorous, thundering applause as the player defies the destiny and proves themselves to be the the chosen one. I would make fun of Blizzard but after a minute of thought it seems to be the reflection of a modern society. Let the consumers consume.
It's so hard to care about something when it all just amounts to nothing in the end. A character shoe-horned in so nonchalantly, and then thrown away as if a mistake. I have to imagine there was a plan here, but they just... had no idea where to go with it. Sylvanas was always a schemer, always beholden to her own ideologies and I guess that made her a good pick for this nonsense, but in the end it just made you question why she did anything. This is forever stuck as part of Warcraft lore and it simply makes it needlessly complicated and silly. Even if Dragonflight brings things people want back to Warcraft, it gives me great pain to think that the developers simply have no idea where to go anymore, and have fallen into the hell of making things up as they go.
Omg Nobbel I was so afraid you stopped making content. Love you forever. I fall asleep to your calming storytelling and voice. The longer videos the better ❤️ keep it up!!
I really thought the story couldn't get any more convoluted and pulled from nowhere after timetravel and alternate timelines, but they really managed to outdo themselves with shadowlands
Finally you are back with some lore videos! :D Sucks how Shadowlands went down, messed up the lore so hard.... Zoval suddenly coming in as the big bad villain that has been behind pretty much everything since the beginning was just silly. Shadowlands is supposed to be the "end" of this chapter, bad way of ending it with just a lot of really new things that we knew very little about, if not just nothing. How were we supposed to feel any connection to this expansion at all.. Really looking forward to Dragonflight though, at least gameplay wise it is starting to look promising.
I appreciate your dedication to your craft even though you can hear your distain for the current chapter for the grand story, hopefully it was all just a bad dream.
the big problem with the jailer is he just came out of nowhere, at least for me. If say the jailer was instead actually Ner'zhul it would have been rather intresting. We all saw ner'zhul in sanctum so we know when the lich king died he didnt die exackly with him as we knew. he was always a power hungry warlock and we all saw what he just got by himself in outland, then defying death by the burning legion by getting Athras to be corrupted and misled by Kel'thuzad to later merg him and become the lich king. When he would arrive in the shadowlands lets say there was just an automated arbiter and the 4 different regional eternals, he would be dammed to the maw but we all know he would never give up, just as he was about to claim world of azeroth it was snapped away by a paladin. He would learn as much as he can from the maw, perhaps not escape but being able to get the attention of Denathrius and realize he has been getting his help all long. TDLR: The story could have been 10x better just by using old characters which we have known before instead of making a super villian we never even heard of.
Brilliant. The Jailer is a character that is deeper than most people think, there's lots of deep philosophy, mythology and even Gnosticism that people could barely notice, the main issue was the way that the lore and the story was presented in the midst of systems that are aimed to keep subs and pissed people off. All the drama and the lawsuit tainted everything and people automatically rejected anything to do with WoW. This was a great video to encapsulate the most important things, thank you.
zovaal did originally care about the souls and thats why he changed but when we kill him his story totally changes he wants power control and is scared of some big issue to come..blizz writing...
I can feel the deception,frustration, sarcasm in your voice. I feel the same way. It kill my love for the lore. Very disappointed everything that happened was because of him. Its a bad retcon for the whole lore.
Little did we know those many years ago that WOW was really the story of the Jailer all along. How can the story possibly go on from here without its main subject?
![The Story of Aftermath of the Shadowlands [Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nJzCMXDjmco/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Story of Aftermath of the Shadowlands [Lore]](/img/tr.png)
![The Story of Wrath of the Lich King Classic [Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n1qudxuGmRc/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Story of Dragonflight - Full Version [Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Aipy19Xt45U/mqdefault.jpg)
Nobbel forgot one of most important questions; "Why is the jailer called the jailer if he is the one being jailed?"
did we ever get to the bottom of that?
is it related to the "no one escapes the maw" BS?
My crackpot theory is that;
Whilst he broke free of his chains in the Maw and learned to use the power, no one had the ability to jail him again.
With his newfound power he was referred to as the jailer by the rest of the covenant leaders who knew of his existence, but unable to do anything about him with their own conflicts.
The way this information may have spread [because no one can leave the maw] is through Denathrius since at this time he was considered trustworthy but most likely working with Zovaal.
Alternative idea;
He's called the jailer by everyone who does not know of his prior arrangement as the arbiter or his original name Zovaal.
And anyone that we would meet that would refer to him by that name goes along with the players presumption of his new name.
Not likely wanting to say his real name/call him the arbiter since that is no longer a position he holds and would have to explain their prior relationship which makes them look shady.
Our first experience with Zovaal as a player was him imprisoning people we know, therefore it's a monicker given likely by Azerothians to Zovaal.
@@rasmachris94 that very last sentence is what resonated with me the most. Might not be entirely canon but it works for me
Exactly wouldn't the Arbiter be the Jailer
@@rasmachris94 This don't really work since he is still trapped i nthe maw and thus cant get away from it thus jailed in it so he is still jailed in the maw at the start of SL, so this theory dont work =p
There is issues with a lot of your points, first the covenents leaders are not in conflict, they started only when the Primus got captured, also, the convenents were still confident that Zovaal was trapped in the maw and wouldnt go away. Another term they used was the bannished one which also show you the issue, they call him the bannished one and the jailer at same moment...
And more likely, i think you are trying to find a justification with theory that you are not meant to do, if he is caleld hte Jailer its because it would be dumb to fight a dudue called the Jailed...its only Blizz doing marketing there is no theories behind it.....or there will be if you continue your meddling and blizz see your message....since its how they do story since a while now.
The amount of disdain in your voice during the whole video was comical knowing full well how you feel about this last expansion. Welcome back man. Plus on a brighter note this is like the most positive comment section of any video I've ever watched, we've got a good Community here.
Yeah, he becamse a cry baby, for what reason ever.
Hell, should just stop to make such videos at this point, they are utter garbage like that anyway.
It's not the story's fault, that's clear. I watched other lore guys and none of them had the problem as he does. It's HIS problem to just want to see it that way.
I don't get what's hard to understand with the WoW story. It fits together quite well and that you got some hickups here and there is no surprise, when you got such a massive story going on over 20 years, it's absolute impossible to plan all of that. This in mind, it's astonishing how they make it work.
Meanwhile in the game I mainly played the last decade, FF14, the world building is utter crap, the protagonists are Mary Sues, the antagonists are forced to be incompetent idiots and they never even try that anything makes any sense.
But for some reason people praise that pile of garbage (without being able to explain it), while they hate on the WoW story for no reason.
Overall Warcraft story isn't that much of my taste, but it does not have to be to accept the quality and to understand it.
If you don't understand the Shadowlands story and the characters inside, you really must be an idiot, because it's really not hard.
Maybe people should do something for their intelligence instead and stop playing games for a while, I don't know...
Or just try to use their brain and not just hate on something like a grumpy child.
@@miriamweller812 Looks like you have a passion by how many comments you commented on.
@@Bartoc1988 Has anybody ever told you what an asshole you are? If not, I'll do it.
@@miriamweller812fit together? Not that bad? Interesting? For someone claiming to be more intelligent than the “grumpy babies” you seem to be the most blind out of all of us my friend.
We didn’t hate shadowlands because we didn’t understand it, we hate it because we understood that it was boring, uninteresting horse manure.
Ach, the magnificent loremaster is back! Thank you for not abandoning your acolytes! Considering the state of lore... Let's just say, I'm really glad you're back. You've been missed!
hes been updating on his second channel
As he acts now, he's the most shitty lore'master'.
Facts! Man the sarcasm on that "most beloved characater they've ever introduce" is dripping. I genuinely love it XD
So glad that you are back. Hope Shadowlands havn't killed your love for the game entirely.
We have to refuse this lore.
Whatever garbage the current blizzard writers came up with - it has nothing to do with the original warcraft lore we all loved. To the contrary: its a desecration of it.
But I also hope that Nobbel continues. Maybe he could draw a line between "this is what current blizzard says" and "this is what old blizzard said". That could help him moving on, without undermining his principles.
@@lxTxl They actually make SL irrelevant, since you can hop into DF without having played SL, just playing BfA is fine.
@@lxTxl jesus, living in denial is a insane practice. continuing to sub and buy blizzard is exactly why things will never change or get better for the company or player base.
I mean the lore is just not interesting anymore, not at all in any shape or form, all the interesting things that made the story fun in the recent expansions are the things that have been written years ago by really good writers, they haven't written anything new and good at all, that's why anything that's not related to the original books are garbage, I don't understand why it's so hard for them to hire talented and skilled people, there are so many amazing writers out there s^%$ing wind.
@@oldmasterspice Yeap there is people who keep eat spoon by spoon of sand and keep nod hoping for some sort of improvement... Yet they don't understand the improvements will born as the game will get closer and closer to it's demise... There blizzard should make a choise... Keep up and shoot themself in their feet once again or MAYBE try to change their practice.
Still is such a shame a lot of stuff got retconned and for worse, let alone "sylvanas is no garrosh 2.0!" yet they kinda played it like that with a "twist!" (the redemption ark! wich nobody expected apart from all)
I love when we are given the prophecy after its come true.
Prophecies suck and are lazy story writing.
The issue with the Jailer is he just inherited his deeds - we got told he was responsible for everything but no build up, he was an undeserving villain. Furthermore, the fact we basically just hit a big reset button in the form of the Shadowlands not really changing, Pelagos becomes arbiter, the covenant leaders now talk to each other but that's it makes us as players feel even less accomplished. I came back to shadowlands at the end of season 3 (like 6 weeks of season 3) to hang with friends and half the story quests felt like all the NPCs got the story content and I was the mcguffin.
At this point, the players *are* the McGuffin. I'll take the polished look and feel of (most of) WoW as it is now, but the mystery and, thus depth, of the original. I'm leveling a rogue through WoD and... damn it's pretty! But, visuals alone don't make a good game.
@@Just_Call_Me_Tim legion we were at least front and center to the story and the progression... in shadowlands youre just a portal key
Just like bobby kotick
Not to mention we're trading in Malfurion, despite the fact that the entire pantheon owes us.
@@alexashton6501 but make sure you say your destination very clearly before using the port key, or who knows where you'll end up.
The jailer did all this for the reason that he either learned about the threat of the Abyss that would swallow both the great beyond darkness and the Dark Lands, or he learned about another threat, but I think it was the Abyss.
Zovaal could not tell anyone about anything because he could know how they would react to this, and therefore he could try to solve everything quietly and on his own, secretly from everyone, until it no longer matters. But all the leaders of the Covenant found out what he was up to and eliminated him, which Zovaal knew from the very beginning.
In the case of Sargeras, he himself told everything to his brothers and sister, hoping for help and understanding, but did not receive it and then killed them all, and in the case of Zovaal, he knew that it was impossible to tell anyone, and yet the brothers and sisters revealed him and in in some sense, it was THEY who eliminated him, not HE them, as it was with Sargeras.
Zovaal as an Arbiter, after many ages of his duty, could understand that the best way to save all things from the all-consuming threat of the Void Lords would not be faith in living beings, in their intelligence and their potential (which they never use correctly) but submission all sentient beings to Zovaal's own will, in order to control their minds in order to control their bodies and thoughts, so that in the end they do what Zovaal needs to protect them all from oblivion from the Void Lords.
Zovaal could understand that to rely on mortals and believe in their potential - to educate them, to direct them in the right direction is simply pointless, not all mortals will understand why it is necessary to do this or something else, not everyone will want to follow the right paths and ways to achieve success in something, besides, many just want power, etc., so in a sense, the "divided space" really will not stand against the common threat.
That is why Zovaal wanted to subordinate all living life and souls to his will, not only to more successfully defeat the coming devouring of the abyss, but also to save the bodies and, most importantly, the souls of mortals in integrity, so that later they would again quietly exist, for Zovaal would return control over them to them. themselves after the threat is defeated
Love how your videos surrounding specific characters tend to be 40+ minutes long, then the Jailer's is just 15. Really shows how bad of a character this guy was.
It's a real shame. The Jailer had the potential to be one of the best WoW villains... and all we got was a puppet.
@@iceburger he really didn't, his existence is based on ruining old character's lore, this mofo didn't stand a chance of being interesting.
Yeah like some artifact weapon backstories from legion that were tweaked or extended just for purposes of expansion, have more deepth and content than Zovaal story
was about to comment saying something like that lol, shows how flat shadowlands was
@@SantasGAINdeer he was the Primus ans Denathrius Puppet
Thank you for finally talking about Zovaal! Truly the hidden gem of the wow villain roster...
And he should've stayed hidden lmao
I guess that was sarcasm
Zovaal is the gift that keeps not giving
Yes. Just yes. Welcome back nobbel87! We've missed ya! This is the remedy I needed before clocking in today!
I really wish they'd have switched the aestetic of Zovaal and the Primus. Imagine sylvanas being tricked into helping this poor, old, neglected, misunderstood former leader of the shadow lands. The former arbiter who "valued the souls of the dead". Who was over thrown by a pantheon that now "takes away your choice" and "forces you into eternal servitudes of their design"! and then for Zovaal to be the aspect of Maldraxxus: simple, strong, walking frostmourne. Much better deathknight fantasy, and a bigger reason for Sylvanas to be against Maldraxxus (in addition to the other zones) because it would remind her so much of Arthas.
And it was supposed to be like that until late development. Even trailer for Shadowlands has Sylvanas flying in front of Primus silouette, looking like the Runecarver. They just retconned it and changed the plot for Primus to be the good guy. Thats why theres theories that He actually orchestrated all of the story in SL, his captivity, and defeat of Zovaal which we did for him.
I feel a lot of people are misreading what Zovaal means behind the words "A universe divided will not survive" is not directly just aimed at a "larger cosmic enemy" but also pointed at the very nature of life itself, the constant struggles and wars between species leading to further destruction death and pain, the constant needless loss of life, waste of resources, the genocides and more.
If he could forcibly unite everyone to submit, it would all stop. It would be a perfect functioning machine with no more decay. The end and breaking of a broken cycle.
Good point!
Ultimate stability, everlasting, never changing - just like death itself.
At the cost of an ultimate loss of all freedom, forever. With no more chance for escape.
Is *this* worthy of being called "life" still?
What is the point of existence, for the mere "purpose of existing" itself?
Isn't life more than existing?
And isn't that a self serving purpose of Zovaal? He would be the only one with free will, who can be a free *living* being.
While everyone else is bound to his will, like slaves are bound to their masters' chains - and like the dead are bound to their tombs.
How is this "existence" different from death, when you are bound like this?
Did Zovaal maybe fear his own death, which he did foresee if the Universe would end?
Rather than giving his life to a higher order and freedom to the souls beneath him, he decided to sacrifice everyone elses freedom, to preserve his own life and with it: his own freedom.
As he would be bound and unfree for all eternity, by death.
Just like he planned to do for all of creation.
Instead of letting it go, accept death as the ultimate fate of this world, himself, everyone - but also letting everyone live freely, for the time given.
Maybe it is our free will, that makes a difference, like a line in the sand - whether you "live".... or merely "exist".
In my oppinion, having no own will anymore is like death. Speaking from personal experience.
The only hope or difference between this existence and death was the conclusion, that death will come anyways sooner or later, so I might as well give it the time being despite the suffering.
And because my family which I did not want to hurt.
Dark times of severe depression between 04 and 08, before I felt that little spark of "life" in myself again.
Like cinder, burried under the ashes, but still glowing...
I guess it would make sense for Zovaal to be good at predicting the future. He spent half an eternity watching the choices and actions every single sentient creature in the universe when he judged them to an afterlife. Having to watch all of that must've made him good at understanding people
Great to have you back Nobbel, sorry you had to dig in and research the lore of the Jailer.
Like scraping open a dried turd: once you get started, it really just starts to stink.
Glad to see you return, personally, I've decided to cut this expansion straight from the fabric. The True King Arthas, is still out there, unblemished and untainted by the foul corruption of Steve Da-loser.
This is all nzothts dreammare, even time lost is a lot of nothing, like heroes sleepover it. But as every dream, some things came true. Just few are aware of it, and LK is now again tought dead buuut he aint bc “There Must Always Be A Lich King”. My lorehead tl dr
Sry for English
Would you ever consider making a video on what you’d have done differently with the shadowlands? You’re arguably the untouched master of wow lore, so it would be interesting to see!
Happy to see you back ❤️
The problem is the storytelling. I think if you take the same exact story and tell it well it would've been decently received.
@@TheGerrok I may be wrong, but quite sure this time wouldn't work out regardless of how you tell that story.
What would it be? The main focus of that story was "another big bad", i just wish they have had gone with "fuck life and death", by the start of the shadowlands he was going to be Thanos style, killing half so the other half could survive, but Jailer's motivation was litterally his last phrase.
So yes, could've been better, but in the end once the "veil" is lifted, it would still feel bad. Dare i say it would be even worse if i was well told (We kinda knew from bfa that it would probably be bad).
btw, my english sucks.
@@VictorMachadoThundermight I think you touched on the problem, they didn't make a character. You can make him one dimentional at the beginning, but show a short cutscene and reveal something about him. Then another something later. And a small piece later.
It doesn't take much before you get an actual interesting bad guy. Just look at how quickly they built up Sire D.
So glad to see you doing these videos again, best way I know to keep up with the lore I miss as a casual player
I’ve been in love with the Warcraft lore since Warcraft 2. The whole reason I’ve played WoW besides the amazing stylization of the game and character and story build up from inception was the lore itself. Seeing everything build even if it was quirky. I stopped playing in Legion and hoped for a N’Zoth story and was at the same time impressed yet sad. But still your videos kept me coming back. Everything you do is a reason to keep hoping for Warcraft. Your love and continued support for the lore is what keeps me engaged in a game I love. I’m really happy you’re back and I’ll always support and watch your videos.
I understand how... difficult it musta been to make this video.
For a crybaby? Not so much, after all, he's doing it to cry about it, so exactly what he wants to do.
Honestly I haven't played shadowlands enough to rage as hard as everyone about the lore so I'm pretty distant. Which is why I appreciate these recaps like this. Thank you for making this! I now understand so much more - seems rare for anyone to pour out Shadowlands lore cause everybody hates it / doesn't understand it enough to share it. So I appreciate this since I don't have time to experience all the lore myself. I can see how this is frustrating lore, but from your recap I kind of dig what I see. I'll accept that I'm part of the 0.00000001% of people with that opinion... Just know I am into the story you just showed here! Excited for the future stuff about Anduin etc!
Regardless of what character it is, having the Loremaster back is incredible. My leveling soundtrack and wealth of knowledge regarding WoW lore is back!
After all, nobody has a better story than Bran The Jailer.
I love how all the backstory is in text with no proper in-game presentation but for the vague lines
Iiiiiiitsss happening! Glad you are back at this. But of course understand how you are feeling about things with WOW! I’m sure it is echoed by many, myself included. So thank you for doing this, so I don’t have to go though it myself.
Glad to have you back mate!
Very happy to see your return. Your TH-cam channel is by far the channel I've watched longest. I get to get you on twitch sometimes. But listening to your videos at work has always been the main way I catch your content. So very happy to see you back.
Glad to have you back. I love your videos, even when the lore isn't good. Keep it up!
Been waiting years for this, thanks once again bro for doing the dirty work for me...
At least Zovaal fixed Sylvanas' spirit/soul.
Hey Nobbel, thanks for the personalised video you sent me via my friend lionheartex. Means a lot to me!!
You almost made me like his story, but oh boy, it's really your voice and diction that helped... That was so much thanos that I feared marvel would sue blizzard.
Thank you for your video tho ! your voice is still the best one to hear any story from.
Welcome back! 🏰
...And then on this side over here you have Emet-Selch, to absolute destroy the argument that the Jailer never had enough time to shine as a villain or even a character.
- Endwalker Spoilers -
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I feel like an even better example is Meteion who had even less screentime then Emet and the Jailer with half an expansion without patches, was the character who put all of the story's events into motion for the finale and introduced last-minute and yet is still a much better character compared to the Jailer with an actual motive and reasoning that resonates with the tone of Endwalker.
@@jacktconnor It wasn't just Meteion, but Meteion and her countless sisters. We only got a few lines from the different sisters in the hivemind, and even then you can get an idea of what they went through or what they experienced.
@@F34RDSoldier805 Exactly! Despite them only being introduced in Endwalker the writing does really well to give you their perspective, Ultima Thule especially with how raw that zone gets.
It's why I don't buy into the whole "The Jailer didn't have enough screentime" as they certainly did, but all of it was needlessly cryptic and what is revealed confuses the plot more then giving answers for a supposed finale.
Alpha has more personality than the Jailor and 99% of its dialogue is "KWEH"
@@jacktconnor We knew Meteion/her sisters for ~3 hours and perfectly understood her motivation, personality, relationships, and were present when she fell from grace, and it still all fit into the lore without retconning anything.
WoW can't even make an antagonist without falling into the "mwahahaha Im evil because I can" trope.
I'm so happy that you are back
It's the return of the lore king
Welcome back Nobbel!
I'm a big WoW lore fan, I have all WoW related books, Chronicles, guides, novels, everything. I read them all. I've never been so disappointed with the villain like I'm with this dude. I just want to forget he ever existed, like I want to wake up in some quiet inn in Azeroth and realize that it was just a bad dream. I don't know if I'll ever recover from the devastation that is the destruction of my favorite character, Sylvanas.
The Lore Master returns!!!!!
I'm sure this one was hard for you to make but I'm just glad you're making again. Good to have you back Nobbel!
I was not expecting it to be a 3 part long series with each part's length 40+ mins, but you actually went all out on this one, thanks to the GREAT material Blizz writers provided for this ultimate character in the whole Warcraft. After all, this is the character that choreographed ALL the major events in Warcraft's history. Including the great wars, creation of the Burning Legion, multiple invasions, creation of the Lich King/Queen etc. etc..
So, when are the rest of parts coming? 🤔🤔
Thank Elune you're back!
I love the idea of the Jailor and the Maw, heck I even love the Maw/Mawsworn aesthetic, but they could have done a much better job at telling it's story because it was kind of sloppy.
So you’re telling me you like *gray*
@@Zanzibawrr no I'm saying I like the sharp angles and overall design of the Maw and Mawsworn.
@@AtomicVisionary Same, it reminded me so much of Sauron and Mordor; imagine if we had a compelling story to go with the menacing environment :'(
@@soaringturkeyvulture7506 it does heavily resemble the Morgul style. Which is one of my favorite fantasy aesthetics. That's why I was so quickly drawn to it.
Happy to see a nobbel video back🙏🏽 Thank you
Finallly hereee you backlk 🥰🥰🥰
I know Nobbel it may not be the sexist of lore atm but honestly a good chunk of the joy of this channel is hearing you spin some WoW tales.
Im happy you found joy in other games, but as a player who dont enjoy anything else than WoW, its so good to have you back!
Glad to see you back doing wow lore
My girlfriend used to refer to you as the bedtime story guy.
Great video @Nobbel!
Yeah this Jailer guy will probably be forgotten by the WoW playerbase. He could have been an interesting villain if they had fleshed him out more.
Welcome back Nobbel. You've been missed!
Great video Nobbel. It’s great to hear your voice talk WC lore again. I just wish I cared about it again.
Thanks for the lore! ^^
I’ve missed you Nobbel! Glad to see you back!
I love the jailer, best character blizzard have ever made, can't wait for shadowlands classic to replay this expansion already! Thanks for covering what's maybe the best fictional character ever created in history!
Its funny how Zovaals lore fills 15 minutes. And for example Illidan goes 1h30min. That says alot. Good vid!
Great video with a fair shot for the story.
Glad you’re back! I hope the break was nice! Looking forward to dragon flight content!
The Jailer seeing the Void Lords and going nuts is just Sargaras's retcon story but worse.
The Jailer in one word: SERVE!
You know your villain sucks when his lieutenants and even fricking devourers are more interesting.
"The most beloved character that's been introduced in WoW"
I do enjoy some sarcasm myself as well, sir.
I hate the Jailer story but holy hell am I glad you made this video, Nobbel. it's like hearing the voice of an old friend. good to have you back.
The Jailer, a mishandled character by an incompetent writing team. Was meant to be so much more but will now be best forgotten by the masses.
If only we had had more content patches for them to develop him as a character.
Welcome back!
So happy to see the video, even if it's nipple Boi video.. You have the best narrating voice and does help me sleep
Happy to see the lore man back. That said, I still wouldn't go through as many mental gymnastics for the Jailor.. It shits on any modestly interesting previous lore tbh. Besides that, absolutely love this channel, and we all share the sentiment about the Jailor & probably danuser /shrug lmao
Edit: audibly laughed at 12:34, anyone else too?
Thank the heavens, Nobbel is back!!!!
I'm sorry you had to cover him, but good to have you back! :)
10:00 I just realized: If God dies, you all go straight to Hell. No exceptions.
10/10 writing Blizzard
hey nobbel i'm glad you're back covering the lore even though it's not as good these days
So happy to see you back. We know it was hard, but congrats for making it all the same! Hope you're good man :)
2:00 The slow, robust claps turn into a vigorous, thundering applause as the player defies the destiny and proves themselves to be the the chosen one. I would make fun of Blizzard but after a minute of thought it seems to be the reflection of a modern society. Let the consumers consume.
What intellectuals remain in the wow community have missed your content. While I am not among their number, I have too. Good to see more stuff 🤙
Nobbel welcome back dude!
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS!!! NOBBEL NOBBEL NOBBEL! Missed you dude. Hopefully, you're back
It's so hard to care about something when it all just amounts to nothing in the end. A character shoe-horned in so nonchalantly, and then thrown away as if a mistake. I have to imagine there was a plan here, but they just... had no idea where to go with it. Sylvanas was always a schemer, always beholden to her own ideologies and I guess that made her a good pick for this nonsense, but in the end it just made you question why she did anything.
This is forever stuck as part of Warcraft lore and it simply makes it needlessly complicated and silly. Even if Dragonflight brings things people want back to Warcraft, it gives me great pain to think that the developers simply have no idea where to go anymore, and have fallen into the hell of making things up as they go.
Omg Nobbel I was so afraid you stopped making content. Love you forever. I fall asleep to your calming storytelling and voice. The longer videos the better ❤️ keep it up!!
You are amazing and I’m so glad you’re back!! Hopefully, dragon flight will be worth it and bring us all back!
😭 😭 😭 Nobble is back!!! Happy tears
Yaaaay Nobbel's back!
Welcome back
I really thought the story couldn't get any more convoluted and pulled from nowhere after timetravel and alternate timelines, but they really managed to outdo themselves with shadowlands
Really missed ya man, hope the next expansion re awakens your love for the game.
All of shadowlands lore is making me think of the Skyrim intro. Hey, you, you're finally awake...
And it was all a dream.
Thanks for making new content. Now we just need Madseason back
They made Zovaal the mastermind behind 20 years of lore, to fit a messy story that maybe should never have been done in the first place.
Finally you are back with some lore videos! :D Sucks how Shadowlands went down, messed up the lore so hard.... Zoval suddenly coming in as the big bad villain that has been behind pretty much everything since the beginning was just silly. Shadowlands is supposed to be the "end" of this chapter, bad way of ending it with just a lot of really new things that we knew very little about, if not just nothing. How were we supposed to feel any connection to this expansion at all..
Really looking forward to Dragonflight though, at least gameplay wise it is starting to look promising.
The best part is when the sky closed up. As if to say lorewise: DIDN"T HAPPEN!
welcome back
I hate Shadowlands lore, but I can't dismiss your videos, and therefore here I am!
Shadowlands is a good lesson in the stages of grief.
Do you mean the actual story or how the players felt?
So much sarcasim with the "most beloved character" Still good to see you back in action man. hope your doing good
Happy to have you back :) hoping Dragonflight is great and inspires many more videos :)
I love to see a comment section which isn't rotted with hateful comments. Just lovely comments of happiness, I luv it
I appreciate your dedication to your craft even though you can hear your distain for the current chapter for the grand story, hopefully it was all just a bad dream.
the big problem with the jailer is he just came out of nowhere, at least for me.
If say the jailer was instead actually Ner'zhul it would have been rather intresting.
We all saw ner'zhul in sanctum so we know when the lich king died he didnt die exackly with him as we knew. he was always a power hungry warlock and we all saw what he just got by himself in outland, then defying death by the burning legion by getting Athras to be corrupted and misled by Kel'thuzad to later merg him and become the lich king.
When he would arrive in the shadowlands lets say there was just an automated arbiter and the 4 different regional eternals, he would be dammed to the maw but we all know he would never give up, just as he was about to claim world of azeroth it was snapped away by a paladin.
He would learn as much as he can from the maw, perhaps not escape but being able to get the attention of Denathrius and realize he has been getting his help all long.
TDLR: The story could have been 10x better just by using old characters which we have known before instead of making a super villian we never even heard of.
Brilliant. The Jailer is a character that is deeper than most people think, there's lots of deep philosophy, mythology and even Gnosticism that people could barely notice, the main issue was the way that the lore and the story was presented in the midst of systems that are aimed to keep subs and pissed people off. All the drama and the lawsuit tainted everything and people automatically rejected anything to do with WoW. This was a great video to encapsulate the most important things, thank you.
What did Zovaal see? People on Azeroth putting pineapple on pizza!
zovaal did originally care about the souls and thats why he changed but when we kill him his story totally changes he wants power control and is scared of some big issue to come..blizz writing...
I can feel the deception,frustration, sarcasm in your voice. I feel the same way. It kill my love for the lore. Very disappointed everything that happened was because of him. Its a bad retcon for the whole lore.
I'm so glad that nobbel is finally recommitting to Steve Danuser's vision for WoW.
Little did we know those many years ago that WOW was really the story of the Jailer all along. How can the story possibly go on from here without its main subject?