If you mean "Super Classic" as the style of kit (because there was a "Super Classic" shell, too). Hollywood, later Big Beat, is 5-piece kit featuring 12/13 small toms and a 16" floor tom, 22" bass drum and a 14x5 snare drum (should be matching, but doesn't have to be). Super Classic, later Classic, was the same kit, just no 12" tom. Hardware changed with time, but is not specific to the type of kit, only the era when that kit would have appeared. Downbeat was a Ludwig's 14x4 wood snare drum. It was always suggested with a 20" bass and 12/14 tom combo. These days, people tend to think (partly because modern Ludwig advertising suggests it) its the 20/12/14 kit with whatever snare drum you wanna play, but actually, it's a suggested kit that went with a specific snare drum.
My 1st kit was a '65 Blue Oyster Super Classic 13' 16' 22' that I modified to a Hollywood 5 piece with an orphan 12' Blue Oyster tom. Removed the rail consolette and mounted that 2 tom post. Played that set-up for 25 years. Still use the '65 Supraphonic snare drum.
Videos like this don't help with identifying Ludwig drums and kits. Starting from a place of what seems skant knowledge only confuses matters. The old drum companies sold a lot of drum sets through the catalogues they produced. As kids in the 20th century we drummers drooled at the latest catalogues from Ludwig or whoever, wishing to own such drums at some time in the future. These companies cam up with drum sets or outfits which included eveything you needed to buy and start playing, including sticks, brushes, cowbells, stool etc. This was an outfit. To make choosing an outfit easier, these catalogue outfits were given a name, Big Beat, Hollywood, Super Classic etc. So, when a seller offers 4 Ludwig drums, these are not drum sets, outfits or kits, they are merely groups of drums, and at best a shell pack or shell set. You cannot go out immediately and play with them as you have no hardware, pedals sticks, a stool etc., just a few drums. So when I see a for sale ad offering a Super Classic kit but the seller really only has 3 drums for sale, I have to ask myself why they believe they are selling a Super Classic kit. It's neither a kit, and because all the parts that would have appeared in the catalogue for a Super Classic outfit are not there, especially the 400 snare drums in almost every instance, I see that drummers and dealers have lost the significance of these advertising monickers used by the drum companies. Worse still is a sibgle drum, say a floor tom offered as a Super Classic tom - but there is no such thing. They are Classic Series drums. Even shells weren't offered as Classic or Super Classic to well after the Super Classic outfit name was hatched. As generations move on, all this information is suffering from the effects of Chinese Whispers, as information gets more and more distorted. .All these old catalogues are available for drummers to see if they search, I'd just ask that sellers and dealers really do the research on what they are selling before tagging groups of drums with the exotic names of complete outfits, which they clearly are not unless all the constiuent parts are included.
The red kit you called super classic was a deluxe classic because it Didn’t have the cymbal mount on the bass drum. I have a Black Panther super classic from 1971, it has the cymbal mount on the Kik ala Bonzo’s kits!
Correct. I think (guessing of course) that Ludwig started making sets this way as Ringo never used that bass drum mount. Maybe Ludwig figured they could save a few bucks by omitting a mount. It's anyone's guess as to why this occurred.
With the comment at 8:19 about some of the drum spurs not being long enough -- I have seen comments before from people saying that the mounting bracket on the inside of their older Ludwig bass drums can be flipped one of two different ways to get a different angle/length out of the spurs. Maybe your drums are like that as well! Hope it helps!
I happened to come across the video again about the Ludwig bass drum spur mounting plate being flippable. I wanted to post it here in case it could help someone else as well! th-cam.com/video/ayAA7qjjOoc/w-d-xo.html (P.S. -- Shawn's Channel is awesome as well by the way!!! - Check it out!) Thanks for your services dfd!!!
Great episode! Chris and Mike, this may help keep track of the various kits and their names. It's from my 1975 Ludwig catalog (from which I picked out my first kit, a Deluxe Classic) Unless otherwise indicated: all kits come with a Supraphonic snare, and 1 bass drum Rock Duo: 2 up, 2 down, 2 bass drums, all Atlas hw Pro Beat: 2 up, 2 down, all Atlas hw Big Beat: 2 up, 1 down, Atlas hihat and snare stands, flat base cymbal stands Hollywood: 2 up, 1 down, all flat base hw Super Classic: 1 up, 1 down, all flat base hw, cowbell mount and cymbal mount on bass drum Deluxe Classic: 1 up, 1 down, Atlas hihat and snare stands, flat base cymbal stands, no cymbal mount Jazzette: 1 up, 1 down, smaller sizes (12x18, 8x12, 14x14) Mach 4: 1 up, 1 down, Supersensitive snare, all Atlas hw Mach 5: 2 up, 1 down, Supersensitive snare, all Atlas hw Quadra-plus: 4 concert toms up, 1 double-headed tom down, all Atlas hw Octa-plus: 8 concert toms up, 1 double-headed tom down, 2 bass drums, all Atlas hw
Ludwig was unprepared for their own success in the mid to late 60's. Charlie Robbie from Robbie's Music showed me a letter he received where Ludwig was so overwhelmed with backorders that they would not be accepting any new orders from their distributors as production was backed up for 9 months.
In the mid 60s after Ringo was on the Ed Sullivan show and Ludwig went 24 hours people who work there have admitted they were running out of wood trying to keep up and they would just put any types of wood in the drums and meanwhile everyone discusses it like it's a science these days
Hollywood configuration is 22x14, 12x8,12x8, 16x16.. Pro Beat 24x14, 13x9, 16x16 Big Beat is the same only with a 12x8 and 13x9. Downbeat 12x8, 14x14, 20x14 Super Classic, 22x14, 13x9, 16x16.. Custom ordered Super Beat is 13x9,16x16, 20x14. Granitone was implemented to protect the interior of the shell from moisture, just like Tama copied from Ludwig with their Zola coat interior in the early 80s.. Ludwig was all over the place when it came to their series and configurations..😂 They also made gold and silver silk finishes.
Corrections- "Hollywood" was offered with two 12" toms for the first few years of its life (1960-1965ish). The configuration was changed to offer 12" and 13" toms around '65 - '66. The "Big Beat" features the exact same configuration as the second version of the "Hollywood", but it came with beefier stands. "Pro Beat", when referring to vintage Ludwigs, is always 9x13, 10x14, 16x16, 16x18, 14x24". The smaller 9x13, 16x16, 14x24 configuration was actually sold as a variant of the Deluxe Classic outfit in the 1970s. The name "Pro Beat" only applies to the 9x13, 16x16, 14x24 configuration when referring to present-day Ludwigs (Classic Maple, Classic Oak, Legacy Maple, Legacy Mahogany, Neusonic)
That Red Silk kit is not a Super Classic, it's actually a Deluxe Classic! ;) The Super Classic would have had a shell-mounted cymbal arm holder on the kick drum for the ride. The Deluxe Classic, which was introduced in the late '60s, came with different hardware including a cymbal stand which took the place of the shell-mounted cymbal holder.
Even through the 80’s. The Rockers Series is kind of a cluster. Lol. They had Standard lugs, mini and large classic lugs, clear maple interiors, granitone and a weird pale painted color interior. 😓. Some with metal hoops. Some with wood. Some with inlays. Some with not. Trods and claws… some I’ve seen with the higher end rods and claws. And some with the cheaper style combos. One thing they all have in common…. They sound great and are inexpensive. But hard to sell
The vintage drum market will never disappear. Sound engineers seek and have vintage drums for their studios all the time. Many new drum kits are made with the vintage sound and look in mind.
I have to laugh at all the errors in this video. Why do drum kits have strange names? the simple answer is marketing. The drum companies advertised their wares in catalogues. All those names are just the name of a pictured outfit in the catalogue, making it easier for a buyer to tell the drum shop what it s they would like to order. There are no Super Classic drums, only a Super Classic outfit, and unless it comes with everything the catalogue pictured, including sticks and brushes, it's not a Super Classic. Big, Beat, Hollywood, Super Classic etc. etc. are all Ludwig Classic series drums. Most kits had the available hardware at the time. As time passed, bigger sized drums on outfits would be supplied with sturdier hardware. Kits were generally not made as a whole, hence odd badges and out of sequence serial numbers. Sometime you would get lucky and they would have to wait for all the drums of a certain outfit with a certain finish, and you might get sequential serial numbers, but in the main, not. The internet is full of forums spouting absolute rubbish about vintage drums, because it's all been forgotten overtime, or it's passed down through Chinese Whispers. And please, if you are just talking about drums without snare, pedals stands etc., these things are just shell packs, not kits sets or outfits, just random groups of drums. A drum set.kit is something you can play, not something you then need to spend the same money again to make it complete.
I knew someone with "double rail tom holder one on each side of bass drum.....he said he got a better angle that way then with the common "tree double tom mount" you see on that ugly ass sin finish drum set. I also knew someone with this same ugly ass sin finish drum set.......THAT FINISH IS UGLY! In my humble opinion. Take care and I enjoyed your video.
If you mean "Super Classic" as the style of kit (because there was a "Super Classic" shell, too).
Hollywood, later Big Beat, is 5-piece kit featuring 12/13 small toms and a 16" floor tom, 22" bass drum and a 14x5 snare drum (should be matching, but doesn't have to be).
Super Classic, later Classic, was the same kit, just no 12" tom.
Hardware changed with time, but is not specific to the type of kit, only the era when that kit would have appeared.
Downbeat was a Ludwig's 14x4 wood snare drum. It was always suggested with a 20" bass and 12/14 tom combo. These days, people tend to think (partly because modern Ludwig advertising suggests it) its the 20/12/14 kit with whatever snare drum you wanna play, but actually, it's a suggested kit that went with a specific snare drum.
My 1st kit was a '65 Blue Oyster Super Classic 13' 16' 22' that I modified to a Hollywood 5 piece with an orphan 12' Blue Oyster tom. Removed the rail consolette and mounted that 2 tom post. Played that set-up for 25 years. Still use the '65 Supraphonic snare drum.
Videos like this don't help with identifying Ludwig drums and kits. Starting from a place of what seems skant knowledge only confuses matters. The old drum companies sold a lot of drum sets through the catalogues they produced. As kids in the 20th century we drummers drooled at the latest catalogues from Ludwig or whoever, wishing to own such drums at some time in the future. These companies cam up with drum sets or outfits which included eveything you needed to buy and start playing, including sticks, brushes, cowbells, stool etc. This was an outfit. To make choosing an outfit easier, these catalogue outfits were given a name, Big Beat, Hollywood, Super Classic etc. So, when a seller offers 4 Ludwig drums, these are not drum sets, outfits or kits, they are merely groups of drums, and at best a shell pack or shell set. You cannot go out immediately and play with them as you have no hardware, pedals sticks, a stool etc., just a few drums. So when I see a for sale ad offering a Super Classic kit but the seller really only has 3 drums for sale, I have to ask myself why they believe they are selling a Super Classic kit. It's neither a kit, and because all the parts that would have appeared in the catalogue for a Super Classic outfit are not there, especially the 400 snare drums in almost every instance, I see that drummers and dealers have lost the significance of these advertising monickers used by the drum companies. Worse still is a sibgle drum, say a floor tom offered as a Super Classic tom - but there is no such thing. They are Classic Series drums. Even shells weren't offered as Classic or Super Classic to well after the Super Classic outfit name was hatched. As generations move on, all this information is suffering from the effects of Chinese Whispers, as information gets more and more distorted. .All these old catalogues are available for drummers to see if they search, I'd just ask that sellers and dealers really do the research on what they are selling before tagging groups of drums with the exotic names of complete outfits, which they clearly are not unless all the constiuent parts are included.
Interesting bit of info. Thanks.
Astute observation. Thank you
The red kit you called super classic was a deluxe classic because it Didn’t have the cymbal mount on the bass drum. I have a Black Panther super classic from 1971, it has the cymbal mount on the Kik ala Bonzo’s kits!
Correct. I think (guessing of course) that Ludwig started making sets this way as Ringo never used that bass drum mount. Maybe Ludwig figured they could save a few bucks by omitting a mount. It's anyone's guess as to why this occurred.
With the comment at 8:19 about some of the drum spurs not being long enough -- I have seen comments before from people saying that the mounting bracket on the inside of their older Ludwig bass drums can be flipped one of two different ways to get a different angle/length out of the spurs. Maybe your drums are like that as well! Hope it helps!
Thanks for the tip!
I happened to come across the video again about the Ludwig bass drum spur mounting plate being flippable. I wanted to post it here in case it could help someone else as well!
th-cam.com/video/ayAA7qjjOoc/w-d-xo.html (P.S. -- Shawn's Channel is awesome as well by the way!!! - Check it out!)
Thanks for your services dfd!!!
thanks for answering a lot of my questions, appreciate the video
Any time!
Ringo had the 64 Ludwig downbeat set but up graded jazz fest. 5x14 snare.
Great episode! Chris and Mike, this may help keep track of the various kits and their names. It's from my 1975 Ludwig catalog (from which I picked out my first kit, a Deluxe Classic)
Unless otherwise indicated: all kits come with a Supraphonic snare, and 1 bass drum
Rock Duo: 2 up, 2 down, 2 bass drums, all Atlas hw
Pro Beat: 2 up, 2 down, all Atlas hw
Big Beat: 2 up, 1 down, Atlas hihat and snare stands, flat base cymbal stands
Hollywood: 2 up, 1 down, all flat base hw
Super Classic: 1 up, 1 down, all flat base hw, cowbell mount and cymbal mount on bass drum
Deluxe Classic: 1 up, 1 down, Atlas hihat and snare stands, flat base cymbal stands, no cymbal mount
Jazzette: 1 up, 1 down, smaller sizes (12x18, 8x12, 14x14)
Mach 4: 1 up, 1 down, Supersensitive snare, all Atlas hw
Mach 5: 2 up, 1 down, Supersensitive snare, all Atlas hw
Quadra-plus: 4 concert toms up, 1 double-headed tom down, all Atlas hw
Octa-plus: 8 concert toms up, 1 double-headed tom down, 2 bass drums, all Atlas hw
this! they should have had you on the show!
I'll have some of what you're smokin'! Good show guys!!!
Mine is a 72. It has clear interiors, an outer mahogany pliers with the lacquer clearcoat. And you forgot they had Ludwig standards before the rockers
Actually the red kit would be considered a Deluxe Classic as it has no bass drum mounted cymbal holder. Clear as mud eh?
I like the Hollywood configurations. Nice comparisons. Like and subscribed.
I love the big beat kits from the 70’s. I grew up in that era and had one.
Thank you very much!
Mike you should do an episode about how you came to DFD from MD and all the in between.
Ludwig was unprepared for their own success in the mid to late 60's. Charlie Robbie from Robbie's Music showed me a letter he received where Ludwig was so overwhelmed with backorders that they would not be accepting any new orders from their distributors as production was backed up for 9 months.
They.went to 1/2inch spurs when they started the 6 ply.maple lay up.
In the mid 60s after Ringo was on the Ed Sullivan show and Ludwig went 24 hours people who work there have admitted they were running out of wood trying to keep up and they would just put any types of wood in the drums and meanwhile everyone discusses it like it's a science these days
Ringo had the most classic and best Ludwig kit of all time in my opinion.
Hollywood configuration is 22x14, 12x8,12x8, 16x16..
Pro Beat 24x14, 13x9, 16x16
Big Beat is the same only with a 12x8 and 13x9.
Downbeat 12x8, 14x14, 20x14
Super Classic, 22x14, 13x9, 16x16..
Custom ordered Super Beat is 13x9,16x16, 20x14.
Granitone was implemented to protect the interior of the shell from moisture, just like Tama copied from Ludwig with their Zola coat interior in the early 80s.. Ludwig was all over the place when it came to their series and configurations..😂 They also made gold and silver silk finishes.
Corrections-
"Hollywood" was offered with two 12" toms for the first few years of its life (1960-1965ish). The configuration was changed to offer 12" and 13" toms around '65 - '66. The "Big Beat" features the exact same configuration as the second version of the "Hollywood", but it came with beefier stands.
"Pro Beat", when referring to vintage Ludwigs, is always 9x13, 10x14, 16x16, 16x18, 14x24". The smaller 9x13, 16x16, 14x24 configuration was actually sold as a variant of the Deluxe Classic outfit in the 1970s. The name "Pro Beat" only applies to the 9x13, 16x16, 14x24 configuration when referring to present-day Ludwigs (Classic Maple, Classic Oak, Legacy Maple, Legacy Mahogany, Neusonic)
That Red Silk kit is not a Super Classic, it's actually a Deluxe Classic! ;) The Super Classic would have had a shell-mounted cymbal arm holder on the kick drum for the ride. The Deluxe Classic, which was introduced in the late '60s, came with different hardware including a cymbal stand which took the place of the shell-mounted cymbal holder.
I owned a Ludwig set from 1996 8 ply maple, bast sounding set I ever owned .
Even through the 80’s. The Rockers Series is kind of a cluster. Lol. They had Standard lugs, mini and large classic lugs, clear maple interiors, granitone and a weird pale painted color interior. 😓. Some with metal hoops. Some with wood. Some with inlays. Some with not. Trods and claws… some I’ve seen with the higher end rods and claws. And some with the cheaper style combos. One thing they all have in common…. They sound great and are inexpensive. But hard to sell
Keepers! :)
And it's Dave Lombardo!
The rail mount (super classic) is basically a virgin bass drum. the hollywood is… well…
With all due respect,study the catalog,s.
You can get longer Gullwing legs made by Ludwig
And I thought Rogers were confusing...
I learned nothing from this.
It's all about the hang, man. ;)
Big beat would be 14x24 bass drum fyi.
appreciate your comments, but according to the 1971 catalog, Big Beat kits came with 14x22 kicks.
The Super classic had thicker shells and heaver hardware.
You're lucky there I still.a vintage drum market,but you need to do your home work a bit better.
The vintage drum market will never disappear. Sound engineers seek and have vintage drums for their studios all the time. Many new drum kits are made with the vintage sound and look in mind.
I have to laugh at all the errors in this video. Why do drum kits have strange names? the simple answer is marketing. The drum companies advertised their wares in catalogues. All those names are just the name of a pictured outfit in the catalogue, making it easier for a buyer to tell the drum shop what it s they would like to order. There are no Super Classic drums, only a Super Classic outfit, and unless it comes with everything the catalogue pictured, including sticks and brushes, it's not a Super Classic. Big, Beat, Hollywood, Super Classic etc. etc. are all Ludwig Classic series drums. Most kits had the available hardware at the time. As time passed, bigger sized drums on outfits would be supplied with sturdier hardware. Kits were generally not made as a whole, hence odd badges and out of sequence serial numbers. Sometime you would get lucky and they would have to wait for all the drums of a certain outfit with a certain finish, and you might get sequential serial numbers, but in the main, not. The internet is full of forums spouting absolute rubbish about vintage drums, because it's all been forgotten overtime, or it's passed down through Chinese Whispers. And please, if you are just talking about drums without snare, pedals stands etc., these things are just shell packs, not kits sets or outfits, just random groups of drums. A drum set.kit is something you can play, not something you then need to spend the same money again to make it complete.
Know what I learned from this?
Nothin’.
But entertaining ah tho 😂
That's all that matters! :)
Jayme is right,sorry,
I knew someone with "double rail tom holder one on each side of bass drum.....he said he got a better angle that way then with the common "tree double tom mount" you see on that ugly ass sin finish drum set. I also knew someone with this same ugly ass sin finish drum set.......THAT FINISH IS UGLY! In my humble opinion. Take care and I enjoyed your video.
🎶 Ｐｒⓞм𝕠𝕤𝐌
🥴