Stop trying to use every inch
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- In this video I talk through how I go about determining drawer box sizes and spacing for cabinets.
To find out more about installing drawer slides, check out these videos.
Side Mount
• Installing Full Extens...
Under Mount
• How To Install Blum Un...
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I think most people would be doing this the other way- starting with 25" tall opening, subtract the 1" space times 3, subtract the 1/2" drawer guide times 3, leaves 20.5" for the total height of the 3 drawers. The bottom drawer in an office is used for files so that somwhat dictates the height of that drawer, what's left you split between the 2 upper drawers.
Agreed. If I already knew my drawer box heights, it would be easy to add them up and put some space between them. I struggle starting with a carcasse height -- especially if it could change, too, because that adds more options / decisions -- and then deciding on the heights of drawer boxes and what's the necessary spacing between them based on the intended use.
Yup. That's how my brain works. This seemed confusing. Especially the bit where he was like "don't worry about that leftover inch". What? It'll work itself out? What?
@@richardcagle5475Richard, I agree that this part of Jason’s vid left me stumped. IMHO, “it’ll just work out” leads to a measurement problem that needs to be addressed (i.e. a mistake that needs to be fixed). I do intend to use a version of Jason’s method, since most of my work is custom. I will, however, account for the entire carcass space I’m working with.
Truly a life saver. Out of the dozens of videos I’ve watched, this is the only one the explains the thinking behind the build, like the math that goes into it and not just doing it without explaining why or how. Thank you.
I'm starting to do a "custom" kitchen for myself. Building my own cabinets and layout.
This video is perfect for my wife to help understand what is important in laying out the cabinet drawers.
As always an excellent presentation and explanation.
All your cabinet videos are the best I've seen (and that's a lot of them)!
"Space maximization" is an affliction I suffer from deeply. "Every 1/16" needs to be used--I *can* do it, so I should...." I appreciate the forgiveness you offer here!
Mr. Bent,
I have been worried about making custom cabinets for our RV renovation. I have never built a box let alone a cabinet. Your channel has been one of my best sources of information. I am very very grateful for your videos on cabinetry and come away feeling confident that I can do it. I don't think it will be perfect, but it will be better than just winging it. As a seamstress I am used to measuring and building things and have very rudimentary woodworking experience with hand tools. So, we will see how it goes. Thinking of making my own channel for far away family to see. Maybe I'll tag you so you can see how well your instructions help.
Sincerely,
A Truely grateful beginner
I’m so glad to hear that you are finding the content helpful. Makes everything I do worth it.
Thank you so much for this video. This is one of the main things that has kept me from building cabinets for my shop. Drawer spacing feels like black magic and no one ever explains this. Wood is expensive and I can’t bring myself to just try it out and risk messing it up. Great explanation. Thanks again!
Glad you found it helpful
I have procrastinated in doing summer cabinet projects for my new home due to the subject matter you’ve addressed. This video content was all ultra informative and useful! Going to draw up my plans now.
Glad it was helpful!
You have this way of addressing the unforeseen problems that no one thinks about until it's to late and everything is cut. Thanks for that explanation.
You’re welcome
I absolutely love and appreciate this video! This has been a question I’ve been trying to answer for a while now and it’s shocking how little information there is out there on it.
Very good video. My recommendation is to use a story pole for this type of layout. It would also help explain the process.
Very helpful & timely (even though you posted it 3 years ago). I’m what Rob Cosman would call a wood miser. I also suffer from an addiction to use every inch of space in the carcass when sizing drawers. Your simple suggestion should help me with this unhelpful addiction. I’ll heed your advice, since all of my work is custom to fit a given need or space. I mostly use side mount slides, so I will account for every inch of carcass space, but your standard method of spacing drawers on custom work just became my go to method. Thank you from a satisfied subscriber.
I made a built-in for my daughters closet(first project ever). I did watch your videos on the cabinet which helped me get started but yes I did get stumped on the exactly what you spoke about.I ended up having to redo my drawer fronts since some had too many gaps and others were rubbing against the top or bottom.
So thank you for speaking about this. Your work is greatly appreciated.
Glad you found it helpful
@Bent'sWoodworking&More~. THANK YOU SO MUCH!! This is the EXACT issue I've been struggling with as I attempt to draft a plan for customizing my Master Closet. You are right about it creating anxiety! I am planning to build custom drawers units in the closet...I have debated the pros & cons of undermount vs side mount slides in my head dozens of times, but the SINGLE BIGGEST "unknown factor" that's tripped me up is determining the amount of vertical space to leave between each drawer! I swear.....I have wasted so much time worrying about this particular question. Your video was truly a game changer for me!!! THANK YOU! ~~Christy~~
Hi Jason. I find your content very helpful and frequently refer to your videos when I hit a stumbling block on a project. What I appreciate the most is that you comment on almost every user post, even if it's just a thank you. So thank you for thanking us!
I try my best to be involved. And you are very welcome.
Explained very clearly, probably I will never gonna forget.
Thank you for this video. Exactly what I was looking for. You explained really well the principles behind building drawers. I have zero experience building drawers and a limited amount of tools, so I am looking to build very simple drawers. I don't have a table saw, nor jigs so I am looking for a very basic build to store my tools. Other "DIY Simple Drawers" videos assume you have all the tools: table saw, pocket hole jig, etc; your video is really for the rest of us. Thank you again.
Great video. Just built my wife a cabinet and the size and spacing drove me crazy. This really simplified the whole process. Thank you again!
You’re welcome
Excellent explanation and advice. I've been stuck for weeks (and resisting all the while) trying to figure out how to put in three drawers of dissimilar heights in a carcass. Now I have a battle plan. Thanks!
i'm in the middle of building my very first "cabinet"...a stand for my drill press...and already fell into the trap of trying to jam as many drawers in as i could. i've now figured out that i need to ditch one of the drawers to allow for better spacing (using side mount slides). this video definitely helps in the thought process going forward....thanks!
Glad you found it helpful
THANK YOU FOR THIS! I was getting so frustrated with building drawers for a cabinet, and I kept procrastinating the install when my project hit snags, and I knew it was my fit, so this helped A lot!
Glad I could help!
That Drill Sergeant hat there, though...! Thanks for your service, and for these great videos. All TLOs achieved!!!
Lol good to know
Thank you for covering this. I'm guilty of overthinking drawer spacing and I let projects go too long because I get flustered on this exact topic. Thanks again!
You’re welcome
I've seen this before. I should have watched this as a refresher before I tried to do what I just did. LOL I made two cabinet boxes to sit my laser on. I did that a while back. But I never added the drawers. Working on that tonight. I've made lots of drawers before. Some already had plans. Only one custom piece. And I don't remember having any issue with designing the drawers. This was supposed to be a quick project. LOL NOPE! It would have been. I was totally over thinking it. I want three drawers. I'm doing side mount. Still going to allow for the 1" between. And 1/8" on the bottom. So now I know exactly what size my drawers need to be. And all it took was watching those 5 minutes of the video. Doubt I'll forget it next time. But if I do... I know right where to find this video. Thanks!
I usually draw everything up on sketchup and let it do the math, but I like using the under mount slides and don’t normally remember to account for that spacing on the bottom. This is good reminder and helps point out the overlooked obvious.👍
Glad you found it helpful
Luckily and thankfully I watched this prior to doing any non standard cabinetry. I landed here because I’m doing a couple single drawer, single door frameless cabinets using Blume under mounts and was looking for any tips I could pick up on from your drawer construction (pocket screw joinery) and frameless drawer fronts. Thank you, all your videos have been very helpful and informative.
This is good info that's rarely talked about outside of pre-prepared plans. Thanks for covering what was maybe a difficult video to create.
I needed to watch this, thank you! I watched it twice and it was very helpful particularly about leaving sufficient space making me pause and give me and my workbench space!
Glad you found it helpful
This is good info. Would you mind doing a video though on calculating drawer face spacing while trying to achieve continuous grain?
Great idea for a future video
Lets say you are doing a cabinet with 4 full overlay drawers and you want continuous grain: cut a single piece of wood that covers all the drawers, scribe it to the wall or adjacent cabinets etc. basically get the side and top and bottom overlays perfect. Then mark the parting line between the drawers on the face and cut down the center of the parting line. The thickness (kerf) of your saw blade is your finished clearance between your drawers, and you are virtually assured that all your drawer edges and grain match up perfectly.
Pro tip: tape your parting line before you mark them with masking tape to help keep tear out to a minimum. I use a 2.2mm kerf blade in my tracksaw and it makes the perfect reveal line between drawers in a modern frameless full overlay cabinet.
Thank you so much for sharing such a precise and informative video. I have been looking for video with this kind of instruction for a long time. Thanks foe answering my prayer. Now. I know exactly how to space out my drawers. Keep up the good work 👏
Glad you found it helpful
Hi Jason.
Great content and even better explanation. I've just started using undermount draw slides, I thought they would be so much more difficult than side mount, how wrong I was. The simple explanation of the drawer measurements has opened my eyes to how difficult I was making it.
Thank you so much for the simple lay man's terms..
Keep up with the great content
Glad you found it helpful
Your explanation was very clear and concise, thank you now this helped very much in the process when building a custom cabinet.
Thanks for the video. I was wondering about this. It seems to me that what to an experienced cabinet maker seems obvious is often a confusing aspect of a build process. I am sure that doing it several times I could figure it out, but is nice to have some one demonstrate it.
Glad you found it helpful
Wish I know this sooner, I was Learning building cabinets & drawers last year and just figuring this out . Good to know for newbies DIYer like me.
Always great content/info . Thanx for sharing. 👍👏🏻
Glad you found it helpful
Man I wish this video would have came out two weeks ago lol, I just built a cabinet for underneath a down draft table that I built. I had no idea how to go about it. In the end it turned out fine for a shop project but it’s far from perfect. The draws are all the same size but beings it was my first time ever building draws, my spacing between doors is inconsistent due to the bottom cabinet being elevated because of the slide. I learned a lot doing that project but this video is going to be watched over and over before I do my next one, thank you for sharing your knowledge
Glad you found it helpful!
I fell into the “trying maximize space” trap building some shop cabinets. Getting ready to build some drawer boxes for another project so this video is good timing. Thank You.
Glad you found it helpful
Im so grateful to have a resource that answers my questions in such a clear and concise way. You are an wxcellent teacher. Than you
Glad you enjoyed it
Wish I had seen this before I built my FIRST cabinet. I made the "maximize space" design errors that you talked about. Thanks for the valuable advice that should SAVE" me next time.
Glad you found it helpful
I was actually doing that, thinking i should take all the space, but your proposal it is quite good and actually lets me relax a bit, thank you for making this video, I have subscribed now :D
Finally!! Thank you Jason. No one even explains this part.
Glad you found it helpful
@@bentswoodworking definitely, you should do drawer front one too different kinds inset and overlap
Perfect. I tried it and all is GTG now. Thank you for keeping it KISS.
Glad you found it helpful
Nice video. Very appropriate. I’m an amateur woodworker and definitely feel I need to use every inch. It becomes quite challenging to get the drawer boxes to all fit and drawer fronts to fit with small 1/8” clearances….especially when my boxes may be slightly out of square.
Glad you found it helpful
Thank you for making this video! It's helped settle my drawer layout anxiety!
Glad you found it helpful
Guilty of trying too hard to maximize every inch of a custom cabinet! I second the idea of giving yourself more wiggle room both in drawer height and in cabinet space use. I found it to be easier to open drawers and set things inside if they are have a better gap between them. Thanks for the content
Definitely agree with that!
Thank you for this! I have struggled with that and drawers have been something I avoid. Ready to try again
Glad to hear that
Great video on how to figure spacing when you have the decided on the number of the drawers and their sizes. It would be great to show how you would go about figuring out the drawer box sizes knowing the inside dimension of the cabinet and using the LR32 system and Blum undermount slides? Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.
I have some plans on doing some videos using the LR32 system
Thank you for this Sir! I’ve been struggling for a while now on how to determine the size of the drawer box and what should be the clearances for each box.
Glad you found it helpful
I have found that when I maximized the space that I often had things getting stuck between the drawers or would grind against the drawer above it. Having more space between drawers won't eliminate that completely but it lessens the chances of it and reduces whatever scissor action damage might occur when things get pinched
With custom cabinets I calculate the height of the drawer fronts first. Then I calculate the drawer box sizes using a 1" spacing and a ¼" space at the bottom. One day I'll try using undermount slides.
Definitely gonna do this technique. I’m always freaking about “ Wasted Space” lol. Thanks for this great information…
You’re welcome
The info was very good and you explained it perfectly.
Glad you found it helpful
your videos are very good and have a wide message thank you
Really good step by step, cleared my mind
Thanks so much👍🏻
I love how the thumbnail has Euler's Identity!
This was so helpful.
Glad you found it helpful
really informative video, thanks for sharing
Nice video for determining cabinet drawer spacing with under mount slides. Not as clear for side mount slides.... especially if you don't want
an inch clearing at the bottom.
I haven’t built any cabinets yet. I always wondered how to determine the spacing. You’re right, I haven’t done it because I couldn’t find a standard or rule of thumb to figure that spacing. I better understanding of side mount slides. Plus I think those less expensive lol. Thanks for the confidence to go for it
Glad you found it helpful
Thank you for this!
You’re welcome
This was very helpful to me. Just wanted to take a minute to thank you!
Your video made my day.
Nice Campaign Cover hanging on the wall
I generally just add .5 to the drawer, or factor it in. For a 10" drawer I'm burning 10.5 to get there inclusive of the slides, and so forth. I find - for me - accounting for that 1/2" as part of the overall drawer assembly (box + undermount slide) makes all the factoring easier. $.02
Thanks for the video! It will be helpful for I have not built any cabinets like this but I am wont to build 3 cabinets with drawers and put together with one solid top for chest of drawers.
Glad you found it helpful
Great tips! Unless I missed it, what’s the proper spacing on the sides of the drawers?
Great information. Big help.
I built a bunch of shop cabinets 9 years ago and I tried to maximize the space. I'm talking about apprx 1/8" between all the drawers. Since I also like to overfill the drawers I constantly run into things rubbing on the drawer above or below when operated and things getting wedged between the drawers. I repeated this mistake on 3 different projects... and it happens on each one. 😅😅😅
Good explanation. Curious as to why you picked undermount glides. What are the pros and cons of side vs undermount. Seems to me it is simply a trade off between maximizing width of your drawer box vs depth of your drawer boxes. I will say that I think side mount glides make all of these calculations a little easier. With side mounts you know box width is 1" smaller than the opening. For height I use the IKEA method of sixths. With a 30" opening in a 34.5" high cabinet, the bottom drawer front takes up 3/6 of 30" or 15 inches, the middle drawer front is 2/6 of 30" or 10 inches, and the top drawer front is 1/6 of 30" or 5 inches. Then subtract from each drawer to create a 1/8" reveal all around. That will depend on which edge of the drawer face you are talking about and if it is top, bottom, between drawers or wall edge or between to cabinets. Really easy to do in Fusion 360 or Sketchup. IKEA makes the actual box height about half the door front height. In this example the bottom box would be about 7.5" tall, the middle 5" tall, and the top about 3" tall. You can say what you want about the quality of IKEA products but they have some dang good engineers working for them in their design department. Everything fits together perfectly and looks well proportioned when installed. Thanks for the video!
This may be the most useful video I have ever watched. Filled in a lot of missing pieces. Thank you.
I wish I would have seen this before building my first set of drawers. I made the drawers so close to each other when they opened and closed they rubbed on the drawers above and below.
Yeah that’s another common issue I wish I would have mentioned
I do it completely the other way around. I ask myself how many drawers I need, and how big they need to be, and then build the cabinet to fit the drawers. I do the math in a fashion very similar to yours, I just use the numbers to figure the size of the cabinet instead of the drawers. Of course, this only works when you are not restricted on cabinet size. If the area where the cabinet is going to go dictates the size of the cabinet, then my way doesn't work. Because I am usually building stand alone cabinets, I don't often have that issue.
I think that's the problem I had on deciding what height to make the drawers-it seems like there's a lot of variation on the spacing and construction of the drawers.
great video once again
thanks!
This is certainly a way to do it. There are too many ways and too many approaches that I always get stuck: Golden ratio. Fibonacci. Specific items (eg. pots and pans, files, utensils, tools). Or just different sizes so unknown items that are too big will fit in the next drawer up or down. Or maybe size according to what material is available. Salvaged material always makes it that much more challenging.
Thanks!
You’re welcome
What about the depth of the drawer?
I am tracking on the one inch space needed between the drawers but what about the very bottom of the drawer? How much space should be allotted? In the video you said half an inch for under mounted but what about side mounted drawer slides?
excellent video. thanks.
You mentioned to allow 1 inch between drawer top to drawers slide. How much do you allow from the bottom of the cabinet to the bottom of the First under mount drawer slide?
Could you advise me with a reference/resource for industrial standard for kitchen cabinets?
I think you did a good job of determining the spacing but really didn't talk about figuring the height of the drawer boxes. I like the approach you did "math" but think you missed a step in the explanation. Here is what I think the math should be:
What is the available space unfortunately I am one of those weird people who like using algebra in my every day life.
I have done the math specific to undermount slide drawers but for side mount it still works.
available drawer space = total available space - # drawers X 1" -1/2" X # undermount slides
Available drawer space =25" - (3 X 1") - (1/2" X 3)
Available drawer space = 25" - 3" + 1.5"
Available drawer space = 25" - 4.5"
Available drawer space = 20.5"
Now that I know my available drawer space I can take that number and divide it by number of drawers for equal drawer or if I I want one drawer 10.5" I can do simple math of 20.5" -10.5"= 10" then divide by 2 for two 5" drawers.
My guess is that you decided to have 3 drawers 2 equal and one large the math on that would be a trial and error looking something like this
large drawer size = 20.5 -(6" X 2)
large drawer size = 20.5 - 12"
large drawer size = 8.5" no to small
large drawer size = 20.5 - (4" X 2)
large drawer size = 20.5 -8
large drawer size = 12.5" no to big
large drawer size = 20.5 - (5" X 2)
large drawer size = 20.5" -10
large drawer size = 10.5" just right time to build
Thanks Jason! You articulated my concerns very well. Treating the gaps and slide requirements as givens helps me get to the drawer sizes easier. The 1/2” for the bottom drawer should be no different than the 1/2” for the other drawers.
Can you use Blum undermount slides for vertical pull out storage drawers?
Great video, thanks Jason. Really appreciate the thought process and patient way you explained it. On a slightly unrelated note: I noticed you used pocket holes to assemble the drawer boxes. You are clearly a Festool man, so I would have thought you would have used Domino loose tenons. Did you use pocket screws so you could take them apart later, or do you find them quicker/easier than Dominos? I'm asking because I am considering purchasing a Domino DF500 for cabinet boxes, shaker panel door construction and several other uses and I thought they'd also be great for assembling drawer boxes too. But maybe not... thanks for any thoughts you might have on that.
I missed something, where's that extra inch? In the video it looks like there's more than 1" from the top of the bottom drawer to the bottom of the middle drawer. Is that were the extra inch ended up?
exactly what i need thankyou.
You’re welcome
what machine do you use to get those pocket holes? I'm using a simple Kreg jig. but would like to get a pocket hole machine as my cabinet business is growing. thanks!
Check out castle pocket hole cutters
Thanks a lot for this valuable information
You’re welcome
00:22 so...this video is to get link to the vídeos we need? ??
Side Mount vs Under Mount - which and when do you recommend?
Depends on the application. Shop stuff I will typically use side mounted
In my limited experience, I find it most useful to start with what you want your end product to be and work backwards. What I mean in this context is start by marking up your finished drawer face parting lines, then mark up your hardware location, then you can figure how much drawer box height you need.
So for his example here, I would put a strip of masking tape up one side of the cabinet edge. Mark where you want your drawer faces to part. (In this example this is only two marks, between drawer 1-2, and 2-3). If using undermount hardware, you need to mount the slides 1/2” or so above your drawer parting line. Mark this on your tape, now you can visualize the space you have available for a drawer box. You can almost completely put the bottom drawer out of your mind, that slide mounts as low as possible and will be shown on the hardware instructions. Focus on drawers 2 plus!
Here’s a big one to push into your head: drawer face height and drawer box height are totally separate things. The only rule is your box height cannot be more than your face height. (Of course there are some hardware and box base thicknesses to consider but I’m talking about big picture here). For example you can have a 10” drawer face and only a 4” drawer box, totally fine! Think about a cabinet base trash can pullout, 32” tall cabinet face with a 6” drawer box...
I don't want to be picking my nose trying to figure this out, want to know exactly where they are going to go before I drive that first screw.
Is there a way to transfer these calcs using the lr 32 system? I am about to begin a 30 drawer kitchen.
I'm not sure this is right but If you only have a certain amount of material to work with, that could also impact and be a Factor in your Drawer spacing and drawer size build... Greg
It could be a factor, yes
Does it work the same way with face frame cabinets
We the opening would dictate the drawer size and space. If there were no cross braces than yes.
Off topic but is that a DI cover on your back wall?
SOFT CLOSE OR NOT ON THE SIDE SLIDES ???
I prefer soft close
Jason, did you get a Castle Pocket hole cutter?
I’ve had one for about a year. I’ll be doing a video on it in the next couple weeks
Been doing custom kitchens and one off furniture commissions for almost 40 years. This layout method is only useful for frameless euro style cabinets. It will not work at all for traditional face frame cabinets, particularly those with fully inset drawer fronts (and doors). It will also play hell with drawer heights when doing the boxes with proper half blind dove tails. Good dove tailing requires the dimensional layout to fit the chosen drawer height or the height to fit a predetermined dove tail layout. The host makes no mention of any of this.
So its really an inch and a half from box to box?
Oh man, anxiety.... I overthink like an olympic sport
I love the video