Just had my rotten decking replaced with a patio and I'm glad to say I saw the trainee given the job of physically pushing and compressing the compound down into the gaps. That bodes well for the future.
Spot on. This is a replay of what I was doing yesterday as the contractor used the brush in method 2 years ago and pointing is almost non existent. I will be doing the job myself this time and compacting everything so it lasts. Finally, the contractor charged a premium so I'm disappointed to say the least. He should have told me to compact the joints is another days work which costs x amount more. Shame really. Thanks for making such great content👍
I had this with a new patio where the contractor asked me to get the "Sweep in stuff" for the jointing. I got the amount required as suggested by the manufacturer for my patio size. I read the instructions and told the contractor about compressing it and they used a brick jointer to "compress" it when it didn't fit down into the gaps all the way. Anyway it didn't harden after a week and just felt soft so I got the contractor to come back and correct it. I bought the extra compound again to backfill what had been used. I also bought some finger trowels and filed them down thinner so they could fit down in the gaps and the contractor had no excuse for not compressing. Contractor returned and spent a day removing and redoing the jointing. I had my doubts at their thoroughness but most parts of the jointing did go a lot harder after better compressing. Some areas were still not rock hard after a week. The first gentle pressure wash 2 months after saw big chunks come out. I am done with the contractor and replace the jointing myself slow time and will do a proper job of it. I think this stuff is great but only when installed correctly, if you rush it and don't do it right, you are throwing money away and may as well be pointing with plasticine.
I used it for about three patios and went back to sand cement, the stuff is just mass produced crap if I’m honest. It’s mixed in mass and you never get a consistent mix of resin to polymer sand in each bucket. It also allows water to penetrate it and sits underneath. We jointed it the same way as sand cement compacted it well and left a bucket handle finish. Most of the time this is used with sandstone paving. Just by nature it can be difficult to compress perfectly in theory because of the profile of the sides of the slabs. There is a better compound called titan and it’s more like a flow ground it dosnt come pre mixed and because it runs like water it filled the joint completely. All in all can’t go wrong with good old sand cement motar
I’m curious what brand or product you had purchased and had installed that did not harden. I’ve been installing patios for a long time and used almost everything on the market and haven’t come across many that did not set up properly and definitely none that did not set up properly twice so I want to stay clear of that product for sure even if the install was improper it sounds like bad product as well!
A little tip on compacting,I put 2 pieces of Cordek protective sheet parallel either side of the joint with the gap the same as joint width,apply as normal then run a wallpaper seam roller over the top to push compound in firmly,the overspill is easily swept away on the Cordek and when you remove it you've got a nice tidy compacted joint,you can give it a final sweep if you prefer more recessed joints. I hope that made sense.
Great video, thank you. I find using a piece of garden hose great for compressing the compound down into the gaps. As the hose is flexible it helps get down into the gaps rather than a metal pointing iron or trowel. I find it's much quicker too. Keep those vids coming.
Compaction is the key. I've used a variety of Sika products down the years,and have found them to be very good. Good video Stuart,keep up the good work.
Used a sack of dry mortar on mine over 10 years ago. Needs a couple of cupfuls after the annual jet wash just to replace the odd loose bit. If I've spent £20 including the original sack I'd be surprised.
Having just had two patio areas laid and pointed by two different contractors I found this video very useful and interesting. I suspect one contractor didn't compact the compound but the other did. I didn't know about this previously so it will be interesting to see what happens in the next couple of years. A simple but great DIY video, thank you.
I took out all the rubbish easy joint and repointed the whole patio with quality brick mortar mix, as if I was repointing verical bricks. YES it did leave some staining of the slabs but no big deal. The whole area looks flush and solid water resistant and much better than before.
Morning fella 🖐️ We sell both of these priducts in the builders merchant where I work ,very interesting how most of the contractors say how they think they are not a very good product . Seems to me , having watched your test comparison , they are cutting corners and not installing it properly , sepecially when it clearly states that in the instuctions !!! Thank you for doing this test . Cheers 👍👊
The main problem with this stuff is it is porous which means water sits in the joints and freezes in the winter causing it to blow from freeze thaw. Compaction is important obviously but more important is being free draining in to the sub-base as well which can be achieved by drilling holes through the mortar joints in to the sub-base. This all takes a very long time which for a product that is maybe 10x as expensive as sand & cement seems counter productive. The product is marketed to be faster and easier than traditional pointing which if you actually used the product how instructed isn't true as it takes similar time to sand & cement. Because it doesn't offer performance benefits that make it better than traditional pointing and that there is little labour saving i see little point using it. The other factor is the environmental impact of using a polymer based product in all our patios which just seems ridiculous, all those micro plastics being put into the environment. I'd now only opt to use traditional pointing for small areas of
Delighted to see this video just as I had completed my jointing with the Sika product a couple of weeks ago. Maybe I have more work to do again in a couple of years.
I saw so many videos suggesting that even after compacting this stuff is a mess in a couple of years that I just decided to use mortar. I nearly went with flowpoint or a two part resin like projoint. A short and long term comparison of the two, plus DIY resin and old-fashioned mortar would be great if you have a bit of land and a couple of square metres of old patio slabs.....
Thank you. Excellent demonstration. In many cases, you can clear the old material out with a high-pressure water jet. Will also be good to clean your tiles... but might damage old ones if you go too strong.
The resin jointing compound will keep a very long time under water. My builders opened a new 40 quid bucket and took a very small amount to finish the job (120sqm!). I quickly filled the container with water to try and preserve it. Five and a half years later it is still soft and I use it for the odd patch. It takes longer to go off, but after a couple of days is rock solid.
Went through this exact same journey with my builder. First time was a big disappointment just brushed in. Then I supervised and assisted my builder in compacting it. It is back-breaking work, more time consuming and more expensive (a lot more material plus 3 x labour) doing it properly. Definitely worth it!
Brill video. Mine has been down 3 years and it looks terrible now. I remember them just brushing it in!!! I was none the wiser. I will dig it out myself and replace it. Thank you for your wonderful guidance with this.
I used this stuff, and it's lasted about 9 years so far. I brushed it in, then tamped it down with a piece of wood, brushed some more in, then tamped it down again. Was about £25 a tub from Wickes I think.
Very topical. I pressure washed my 3 year old patio earlier this year & noticed some of the resin grout had holes in it. When poked with a trowel lumps of the resin came away leaving voids below. Obviously not compacted as per your video. Added to the list of jobs for next spring I think.
the idea is resin jointing compounds need to be used in conjunction with a permeable bedding material but you lay on a 6-1 mix of grit sand and cement that sets like concrete?? best solution i have found is to drill through the bedding material with a 10mm drill bit allowing the water to pass through. this works perfect and the joints dont get saturated when it rains.
A very useful video, thanks! I've got to repoint my patio which was laid in 2019 I think and has been looking awful on the joints for 2-3 years now. I've also got Indian sandstone slabs, a large number which haven't stayed adhered to the mortar bed. So they've got to come up and get relaid with a healthy coat of mortar and SBR mix.
Neat job Stuart, should have a much better chance of lasting than the original. Be interested to see how you would approach block paviers as that’s what I’ve got on my patio. The cracks between them are hairline so couldn’t practically push 20mm deep jointing compound in between them, but the weeds still have a field day every year
I second that we've got a double whammy of block paving and a steep drive so my re-sanding last year has already all washed out 😞 it's quite a big drive too so would take a week to manually compact every joint. Not sure what the answer is! Tarmac probably!
used sylkaflex on my path, recon I could have brushed it in 1hr, took 3 weekends compressing it with a pointing trowel and used loads, wish I had sussed the dumping it in water trick as I wasted loads between pointing sessions, great vid as usual 😁
Of course I know how to...... Wait you have to compact it!!!! Every time i watch one of you video I learn something that I should have known. Thank you so much for doing these videos, my knowledge base increases each time.
Yep, did mine with Sika. It shows t set anywhere near cement and is quite crumbly after a year even with decent compacting. Worth it though compared to repointing. One tip - don’t jet wash it. It will dislodge it quite easilly.
Superb. My useless installer didn’t do it properly- merely brushed it in. It was a hideous job removing excess mortar to get a deep enough bed. I did a painstaking proper job and it’s holding up well.
Have you tried post mix. It’s very fine and flows to the bottom of the joint, you can apply it with a plastic funnel. Then once full gently brush level and then water with a spray head on a watering can gently. This hardens the top level then when it rains the rest hardens. Blue circle post mix is very fine and cheap compared to the resin.
I've just made a patio step (1.2m x 2.2m) Using block pavers and some Setts. Compressing the kiln dried sand and cement mix took hours. Looks brilliant (even filmed the results) I know it was cheaper materials than the resin. Easier to fix than the resin, and if I want to top it up, I can whenever I want. The resin looks expensive and not for me. I want a more traditional finish. Cheers Jamie
I used the Sika on my patio area , it took 3 days to fully harden at around 18-20 c , had no rain. It’s a year later and it’s still fine , it has been jetwashed lightly with no issues. Best to wet the area , but you’ll notice an oily rainbow effect where it’s touched the slabs, I’m not totally convinced this is better than traditional mortar pointing , it may be quicker , but takes ages to go off and is temperature sensitive. All in all I don’t think I’d use it again.
This is the exact situation I'm in at the moment with the same paving and same resin pointing crumbling, I was thinking of using sika so this video is extremely helpful to me before I take on this task 👍🏻
I'm doing this exact job at the moment. Great idea about keeping the compound under water. I'm compacting it with the edge of an old ceramic tile and shaping with an old piece of hose. Very laborious job!
I did two large patios with the Sika Fastfix 3 years ago, it cost a fortune but it's much quicker to use than conventional mortar but doesn't last very long at all. Both patios now need raking out and repointing with sand and cement mortar. Some things I found out :- 1. No matter what colour you choose, the resin soon turns black. 2. Weeds readily grow in it . 3. Bleach cleaning compounds such as sodium hypochlorite, dissolve it. 4. Ants eat through it as if it wasn't there and push up piles of sand everywhere. I followed all the instructions to the letter and tamped it down until it wouldn't compact any more, in places it was 40mm deep but it still failed. I'll never use Resin again, sand and cement might take longer but it's far cheaper and lasts much longer.
Yep my patio experience exactly the same. Plus the contractor redid it for me, foc and the rain & frost destroyed it. Waste of time and money and just a modern day rip off scam. Like those who say we have tarmac left over from a job, want your drive redone!
My patio / path goes all the way around my four bed house so I reckon this method would indeed, cost a absolute fortune. I've just done a small paved area (14 slabs) outside a bike shed and used dry sharp sand and cement, well pushed in with a small flat trowel. Obviously I've no idea how long it will last, but it was quick, easy and looks great.
Agree 100% with points 1,2 & 4 - never cleaned or jet washed mine due to fear of wrecking the joints as they became flimsy after around 2 years so I can't comment on your point 3. I spent days cleaning out my old sand and cement joints which had lasted around 20 years. I reckon I was down to around 50mm in depth in most places, used the original Geofix and followed instructions to the letter, looked great for around 18/24 months then the joints started to blow, weeds got in despite regularly killing them off, and my worst experience, Ants seem to love it and soon make it look like I've got a beach on my patio!
Another great (and once again timely) video Stuart. I’m about to use the next iteration; a liquified version of it, similar to grout, which you manipulte with a squigee. My challenge is I have a lot of open edges where it could pour out if it isn’t viscose enough. I also have a gradient on one section so a risk of it literally just running downhill…. Wish me luck. 🤔
Hmmm🤔 how interesting. Thanks Stu for doing these experiments. Saw your other vlog with Gorilla expanding pu too. Good to know how to use the grouting compound properly and not waste your money.👍
Excellent video Stuart and very topical as I have literally just come into watch your video after moaning about the weeds that are coming through on my own patio and that I need to get something done about them and now I have the perfect solution
Thanks Stuart I'm just about to do the same job on our path and patio. Your tip keeping it in water is great and doing a small area at a time is very helpful..... thank you.
I found it easier to grind out using an angle grinder with a raking blade, means you can deepen and even straighten the joints if needed. I used the no nonsense brush in pointing equivalent to easy joint and seems really good. The pointing is solid and has survived a pressure washer wash.
When I redid my patio jointing, I used a 500mm long steel pipe atached to rod. This allowed me to compact the joints standing up. It took a bit of practice to get it right but it meant I could fill the joints really well. I also used a nifty tool from Lidl, that has a wire wheel on a motor, it scraped out the old mortar to a good depth.
I use a brick pointing trowel to compact brushed in resin. You can get these in different widths from just a few mm upwards. They are longer and the same width all along so the compaction is even. But as you said compaction is crucial
I had the same problem. I used a grouting float to compact the new material and it is easy to move the Sika Compound around the joints with it. As you and the instructions say. Compaction is the secret. Do it right. Do it once.
Good timing fella, I have the same problem on my patios and was thinking about just using sand and cement as it would last longer, and then you kindly make a video on how to do it correctly, thank you
We re did ours a few months ago and the weeds soon come through the silka stuff. As you mentioned though it is back breaking work and me and my wife did a large patio in a day. Probably should have split it into two or 3 days rather than rush.
I’ve tried all these. Also tried building sand and cement, sharp sand and cement. Best I’ve found is sharp sand + building sand (1:1) then that to cement and lime 4:1:1. Pumped into the joint and finished with pointing tool. Still good after 5 years around a pool. Any resin product just crumbles after a few years. It’s ok in a less harsh environment though. I have some of that silka resin under a porch area and it rarely gets wet so it’s ok.
Great video with some very interesting tips. This should be a video for the contractors to remind them to do the job properly!! I still think they will still just brush in as it will be no quicker than traditional pointing. Another great tool for removing pointing is a slaters hammer. Keep up the great work 👍
Love these videos Stuart because they always come with a large portion of good advice. I've been through exactly the same process. The originally pointing has been breaking up for years and I just had to do something about it. I chose the Sika and discovered all the contradictions and tricks to get it all right. You're spot on, the material HAS to be compacted as much as you can manage to achieve good setting and strength. I did the job last summer and within a few months I'd realised my application had been slightly variable despite best intensions. It's not exactly crazy paving but unfortunately my paving slabs do not have neat, sharp edges and so I was dealing not just with variable depths but variable widths of the gaps - what a challenge! I'd decided to pick the hottest day of last summer to do the job and I ended up wasted by the end of it. I could have chosen a better day but I went ahead anyway. I still need to do some making good but know exactly what I need to do now, re-inforced with your experience. Thanks again.
I used something similar on my new patio 2 years ago. There was no mention in the instructions about compacting it, but I did start doing this nonetheless. It looks great after being washed but darkens almost immediately and is starting to come out now in places. Next year I’ll probably scrape it out and repoint it with something else.
i did my patio early this year and used the silka compuond ,best way i found to compact joints was to use a finger trowel and it gives a great neat finish
Hi, Great and informative. An idea I have when compacting is to use a tool similar to what brick layer's use, a piece of round bar. As it will leave a concaved form, it can be topped up to the level of the pavers and compacted. Or only do the deeper part of the gap, even in layers and then finish off with the trowel.
I used a similar product on my patio about ten years ago. I was easy to brush in, didn't stain the paving but it took a long time to compact. Whilst it looked great for a couple of years it then started to degrade and lose its strength. At this point weeds started growing, the material cracked and you could just pull it out with your fingers - no need for tools as there was no adhesion at that point (just gravity keeping it in place). Since then I have been replacing it with ready mixed mortar which is quite cheap. I tried applying this dry to avoid staining the patio stones but found this resulted in a very low strength material that just falls out over time. I now use a fairly wet mortar mix with masking tape on the stones to minimise staining. This results in a much stronger grout with good adhesion that is lasting well and can be pressure washed without it all flying out.
Great job! I wasn't going to watch this one, I have too many jobs to get done before my patio needs reviving but as I sit here gazing out over the sorry state of weeds and ant piles emerging from each and every joint, it dawned on me that your insights are invaluable. I'm now armed and ready for when this job nears the top of the todo list. Which one of the 2 did you use, any preference?
All these resin jointing compounds are PERMEABLE. This is a no no. Water penetration into your subbase is only ever going to end in problems. Any patio should be jointed with a non permeable material with all water draining to planned gulley's or acos. These compounds were originally called Geofix and were for exhibitions. Quickly down for 2 weeks then moved on to the next one. 30 Years i have been at this game so i am giving you my experienced knowledge. btw i love your videos
I have to disagree with you there, I used the Silka fix on my Indian Sandstone patio over four years ago and it has not cracked or shrunk. The resin was compacted after the patio was laid and allowed to dry for a couple of weeks. When laying, the backs of the Sandstone slabs were painted with slurry and properly laid on a full wet bed of mortar. Water will go through most materials into the sub base so using a cement mortar pointing is not going to stop it.
Depending on sub base if laid on sand and cement with a concrete sub base I agree sand and cement jointing should be used. A patio laid on a grit and cement mix with a type 1 or permeable base this stuff is perfect. I’m a landscaping contractor also.
Hi there. Great timing on this video as I had patio laid by such an incompetent contractor in having to now sort it all out. When you’re disabled, this is t going to be easy. I need to repoint so will learn from the video but my question is: if you bang the heal of your foot on some of the slabs, it sounds hollow or that they’ve moving. Do I just repoint around the slab and hope that it holds it or somehow lift up the sand stone slab and relay? I think o know the answer but it will be hard for me to do option 2 👍🏼
I laid a massive patio, I agree do this part in stages. Like many I probably ignored the instructions. But because I always doubts stuff I went round during installation and by hand forced this stuff sika brand product in to the joints I was convinced in my own head this is what should happen, brushing alone is pointless, yes I got thru many more tubs as a result by forcing this stuff in and I was pleased with the job and finish - so as a result now reviewing the instructions as per video compounding this stuff is key and my logic thinking was right . Ok roll on several years and this product has started to slowing reduce thru out the joints??? But why? It’s the pressure washer, it’s tricky to just wash the stone without clipping the joints so over time this reduction of jointing will slowing remove out of the joints. So I believe it is a given you will be replacing this stuff anyway 4-5 years down the line , if like me you like clean stone and use a pressure washer (with patio attachment ) for cleaning. Purchasing this stuff is cheaper on line however this stuff comes in two bags in the box I have two boxes where this stuff was solid hard , maybe a tear in the sealed wrapper ??? But once hard it’s trash. So if you bought from store, just take it bad, which is easier than if bought on line. Usually the store will replace just one bag not the whole tub, clearly this is a regular problem - but they don’t tell you this. Remember keep this in water, this video is a good demonstration on how to use this product and reminded me of how I did it. Well done this man in the video, great presented video! (Stuart well done)
I do landscaping for a living my own business Ive laid loads of patios, I use easy joint, I never just brush it in I go around on my hands and knees and and use my hands to press it in and compact, then use my leaf blower to blow off excess then use joint tool. One of those tubs will do aprox 6sqm. I hit these patios after a couple of years with my karcher petrol washer and not had any joints come out.
EASY joint original sales pitch was that it didn't need jointing, just wet and brush in!!! It did not take long to recognise that it failed when we did this. So we started to brush in and compact with a short length of feather edge board, then do it a second time and then point to finish. it's much better but does not last forever.
Yes exactly, when I bought the Silka stuff about 6 or 7 years ago it was definitely advertised as a brush into the joints only application Hence to say 2 years later I was scraping it all out and went back to a cement mortar.
Repointed our large patio last year. Really put off by the costs of these jointing compounds; would have been £100s worth of material. So stuck with a bog standard sand/cement mortar and a lot of mixing. But yes, doing the job and compressing properly takes hours and hours. :)
Looks like we got something in common with this video as I’ve just recently did my own video talking on this topic of not brushing it in and troweling it out of the tub wet and forcing in for best compression. So I’m glad we’re in the same boat on this 👍🏴 just subbed
The timing on your videos is spooky I put down 3 tubs of sika on my patio last weekend. One hell of a job raking out and then on my knees hours with the finger pointer, was no quicker than pointing with cement. Thought it was a brush in solution! And expensive too £90 vs £10 of sand and cement. I'll have to see how it holds up!
Given the bodgers who laid our patio and paving last summer, I am pretty much certain I will be doing this job in the next 12 months - thanks for the video 🙂
Laid my two Indian stone patios March 2007, only now are some of the mortar joints coming loose. To be honest that's only because I forgot to swap out the nozzle on the pressure washer. I am old school old g1t and still do things the old way. Good vid though, think I'll show it to my neighbour just to prove a point about the "Landscapers😂" who did his patio but didn't want to head some friendly advice😂
I just seen this and asked my builder to compact the joints when he finishes. He seems very hesitant to do this, so I feel I have no choice but to do it myself. Thanks for the education here as it will help in the long run. Question - Which is better Sika or easy Joint or Easy joint select? I really don't like how graining the easy joint is?
I used Rompex on mine, and strangely I don't think it said to compact it in the instructions. I did anyway though, too early to tell how good it is as it's only been in for a few months. The other thing in the instructions that was worrying me was that it was water permeable, so would retain water within the joints. Obviously more water would be held in there with poorly packed joints, which could lead to greater expansion when frozen. I drilled holes into my sub base at the joints and ensured there was no pooling water (used a semi dry mix which did drain pretty fast also) before compacting it in with a tuck pointer and then brushing over with a hand brush. I wonder if the amount of water getting in there when not compacted coupled with a fully wet bed might cause it to pop itself out when frozen.
Good video. In my opinion getting down on your hands and knees, sand and cement pointing is much better than sweep in products. Done right it'll last so much longer and also looks so much better on natural stone.
I done my own patio 3 years ago and some parts are starting to go/crumble. Because its so expensive i was thinking of just sticking a dye through a wet slurry (not to wet) mix with the smallest of gravel through it to see if that weathers any better/cheaper/ stronger !! What do you think of this idea stuart ???
Haha, thought you made a typo in the video title, but it actually is 'pointing' and not, as i assumed, 'painting' 😄 This means that, once again, I've learned something new from your videos, Stuart!
I’m from Canada and one of the big things we do differently that makes compacting the jointing material much simpler and less labour intensive is not wet laying our patio, by that I mean we generally do not set the stones in a bed of mortar because with our cold winters the mortar beds crack and move ruining the patio in a year or two. Personally I use a fully permeable base often referred to as an open base consisting of 10-12 inches of 3/4 inch clean crushed stone that’s angular so it locks together when compacted and doesn’t contain fines like dust or sand so water can flow freely through it and then 1 inch of 1/4 inch clean chipped stone as a bedding layer. The benefit of doing it that way is the pavers are not mechanically fastened to the ground and after they are laid while sweeping in the jointing compound we run our roller tamper over everything, compacting the compound and levelling out any lips or high spots in the pavers.
are you sweeping in dry poly sand and vibrating it in? if so how are you managing to keep the permeable properties? I haven't heard of a permeable dry application poly.
Just had my rotten decking replaced with a patio and I'm glad to say I saw the trainee given the job of physically pushing and compressing the compound down into the gaps. That bodes well for the future.
It also speaks well of the the level of professionalism and dedication to customer satisfaction of the company that you hired to install the patio. 👍
Spot on. This is a replay of what I was doing yesterday as the contractor used the brush in method 2 years ago and pointing is almost non existent. I will be doing the job myself this time and compacting everything so it lasts.
Finally, the contractor charged a premium so I'm disappointed to say the least. He should have told me to compact the joints is another days work which costs x amount more. Shame really.
Thanks for making such great content👍
I had this with a new patio where the contractor asked me to get the "Sweep in stuff" for the jointing.
I got the amount required as suggested by the manufacturer for my patio size.
I read the instructions and told the contractor about compressing it and they used a brick jointer to "compress" it when it didn't fit down into the gaps all the way.
Anyway it didn't harden after a week and just felt soft so I got the contractor to come back and correct it.
I bought the extra compound again to backfill what had been used. I also bought some finger trowels and filed them down thinner so they could fit down in the gaps and the contractor had no excuse for not compressing.
Contractor returned and spent a day removing and redoing the jointing. I had my doubts at their thoroughness but most parts of the jointing did go a lot harder after better compressing. Some areas were still not rock hard after a week. The first gentle pressure wash 2 months after saw big chunks come out. I am done with the contractor and replace the jointing myself slow time and will do a proper job of it.
I think this stuff is great but only when installed correctly, if you rush it and don't do it right, you are throwing money away and may as well be pointing with plasticine.
I was told not to pressure wash when using resin.
@@scottvessey915 The instructions said you can after a period of time of which we were well over it.
I used it for about three patios and went back to sand cement, the stuff is just mass produced crap if I’m honest. It’s mixed in mass and you never get a consistent mix of resin to polymer sand in each bucket. It also allows water to penetrate it and sits underneath. We jointed it the same way as sand cement compacted it well and left a bucket handle finish. Most of the time this is used with sandstone paving. Just by nature it can be difficult to compress perfectly in theory because of the profile of the sides of the slabs. There is a better compound called titan and it’s more like a flow ground it dosnt come pre mixed and because it runs like water it filled the joint completely. All in all can’t go wrong with good old sand cement motar
DIY and get what you invest. Time and care = a good job.
I’m curious what brand or product you had purchased and had installed that did not harden. I’ve been installing patios for a long time and used almost everything on the market and haven’t come across many that did not set up properly and definitely none that did not set up properly twice so I want to stay clear of that product for sure even if the install was improper it sounds like bad product as well!
A great Sunday morning treat with DIY Dad.
A little tip on compacting,I put 2 pieces of Cordek protective sheet parallel either side of the joint with the gap the same as joint width,apply as normal then run a wallpaper seam roller over the top to push compound in firmly,the overspill is easily swept away on the Cordek and when you remove it you've got a nice tidy compacted joint,you can give it a final sweep if you prefer more recessed joints. I hope that made sense.
Really useful. I’m about to embark on this job and I suspect you’ve saved me a lot of time and money. Thank you!!!
Great video, thank you. I find using a piece of garden hose great for compressing the compound down into the gaps. As the hose is flexible it helps get down into the gaps rather than a metal pointing iron or trowel. I find it's much quicker too. Keep those vids coming.
Compaction is the key. I've used a variety of Sika products down the years,and have found them to be very good. Good video Stuart,keep up the good work.
so glad I went with porcelain patio and regular tile grout. solid as a rock 5 years later not a gap or chip out even with regular pressure washing
Used a sack of dry mortar on mine over 10 years ago. Needs a couple of cupfuls after the annual jet wash just to replace the odd loose bit. If I've spent £20 including the original sack I'd be surprised.
That is exactly what I have done on mine. It works, is cheaper, less time consuming and is much more knee friendly...
Having just had two patio areas laid and pointed by two different contractors I found this video very useful and interesting. I suspect one contractor didn't compact the compound but the other did. I didn't know about this previously so it will be interesting to see what happens in the next couple of years. A simple but great DIY video, thank you.
I took out all the rubbish easy joint and repointed the whole patio with quality brick mortar mix, as if I was repointing verical bricks. YES it did leave some staining of the slabs but no big deal. The whole area looks flush and solid water resistant and much better than before.
Morning fella 🖐️
We sell both of these priducts in the builders merchant where I work ,very interesting how most of the contractors say how they think they are not a very good product . Seems to me , having watched your test comparison , they are cutting corners and not installing it properly , sepecially when it clearly states that in the instuctions !!!
Thank you for doing this test .
Cheers 👍👊
The main problem with this stuff is it is porous which means water sits in the joints and freezes in the winter causing it to blow from freeze thaw. Compaction is important obviously but more important is being free draining in to the sub-base as well which can be achieved by drilling holes through the mortar joints in to the sub-base. This all takes a very long time which for a product that is maybe 10x as expensive as sand & cement seems counter productive. The product is marketed to be faster and easier than traditional pointing which if you actually used the product how instructed isn't true as it takes similar time to sand & cement. Because it doesn't offer performance benefits that make it better than traditional pointing and that there is little labour saving i see little point using it. The other factor is the environmental impact of using a polymer based product in all our patios which just seems ridiculous, all those micro plastics being put into the environment. I'd now only opt to use traditional pointing for small areas of
@@Palo-jm7xc Completely agree, I've stopped using this type of product now.
Great informative video, for all Only thing I’d add is use a finger pointer to push right into the joint 👍
Very informative and clearly explained,Thankyou
Delighted to see this video just as I had completed my jointing with the Sika product a couple of weeks ago. Maybe I have more work to do again in a couple of years.
Since finding your channel, every Sunday has become an opportunity to learn something legitimately useful from your videos, so thank you for that 🤠
I saw so many videos suggesting that even after compacting this stuff is a mess in a couple of years that I just decided to use mortar. I nearly went with flowpoint or a two part resin like projoint. A short and long term comparison of the two, plus DIY resin and old-fashioned mortar would be great if you have a bit of land and a couple of square metres of old patio slabs.....
Thank you. Excellent demonstration. In many cases, you can clear the old material out with a high-pressure water jet. Will also be good to clean your tiles... but might damage old ones if you go too strong.
Excellent informative video and superb presentation. Good job. Thank you.
The resin jointing compound will keep a very long time under water. My builders opened a new 40 quid bucket and took a very small amount to finish the job (120sqm!). I quickly filled the container with water to try and preserve it. Five and a half years later it is still soft and I use it for the odd patch. It takes longer to go off, but after a couple of days is rock solid.
I used the Silka one 2 years ago. I compressed it as per instructions and it's as good now as it was then. Great product when applied correctly 😁
Went through this exact same journey with my builder. First time was a big disappointment just brushed in. Then I supervised and assisted my builder in compacting it. It is back-breaking work, more time consuming and more expensive (a lot more material plus 3 x labour) doing it properly. Definitely worth it!
Brill video. Mine has been down 3 years and it looks terrible now. I remember them just brushing it in!!! I was none the wiser.
I will dig it out myself and replace it. Thank you for your wonderful guidance with this.
I used this stuff, and it's lasted about 9 years so far. I brushed it in, then tamped it down with a piece of wood, brushed some more in, then tamped it down again. Was about £25 a tub from Wickes I think.
Excellent tip about pouting the whole lot into water!
Very topical. I pressure washed my 3 year old patio earlier this year & noticed some of the resin grout had holes in it. When poked with a trowel lumps of the resin came away leaving voids below. Obviously not compacted as per your video. Added to the list of jobs for next spring I think.
Great information I'm about to do mine .time will tell be interesting to see it year on year how long it lasts
the idea is resin jointing compounds need to be used in conjunction with a permeable bedding material but you lay on a 6-1 mix of grit sand and cement that sets like concrete?? best solution i have found is to drill through the bedding material with a 10mm drill bit allowing the water to pass through. this works perfect and the joints dont get saturated when it rains.
A very useful video, thanks! I've got to repoint my patio which was laid in 2019 I think and has been looking awful on the joints for 2-3 years now. I've also got Indian sandstone slabs, a large number which haven't stayed adhered to the mortar bed. So they've got to come up and get relaid with a healthy coat of mortar and SBR mix.
That's exactly what happened to my patio!! Wish I'd known this before. 👍
Neat job Stuart, should have a much better chance of lasting than the original. Be interested to see how you would approach block paviers as that’s what I’ve got on my patio. The cracks between them are hairline so couldn’t practically push 20mm deep jointing compound in between them, but the weeds still have a field day every year
I second that we've got a double whammy of block paving and a steep drive so my re-sanding last year has already all washed out 😞 it's quite a big drive too so would take a week to manually compact every joint. Not sure what the answer is! Tarmac probably!
Would love to know Stuart's opinion on the alternative mix in sand and cement, how best to colour it, and what additives to prolong it's life
used sylkaflex on my path, recon I could have brushed it in 1hr, took 3 weekends compressing it with a pointing trowel and used loads, wish I had sussed the dumping it in water trick as I wasted loads between pointing sessions, great vid as usual 😁
Of course I know how to...... Wait you have to compact it!!!! Every time i watch one of you video I learn something that I should have known. Thank you so much for doing these videos, my knowledge base increases each time.
Yep, did mine with Sika. It shows t set anywhere near cement and is quite crumbly after a year even with decent compacting. Worth it though compared to repointing. One tip - don’t jet wash it. It will dislodge it quite easilly.
Superb. My useless installer didn’t do it properly- merely brushed it in. It was a hideous job removing excess mortar to get a deep enough bed. I did a painstaking proper job and it’s holding up well.
I worked for 2 so called landscapers, both saved money on how little they use. One of them filled pointing gaps with pebble before using easy joint.
Thanks for that, have a project for next year and it's nice to know what to look for
Thanks, I need to do this on my patio and paths.
Have you tried post mix. It’s very fine and flows to the bottom of the joint, you can apply it with a plastic funnel. Then once full gently brush level and then water with a spray head on a watering can gently. This hardens the top level then when it rains the rest hardens. Blue circle post mix is very fine and cheap compared to the resin.
I've just made a patio step (1.2m x 2.2m) Using block pavers and some Setts. Compressing the kiln dried sand and cement mix took hours. Looks brilliant (even filmed the results)
I know it was cheaper materials than the resin. Easier to fix than the resin, and if I want to top it up, I can whenever I want.
The resin looks expensive and not for me. I want a more traditional finish.
Cheers
Jamie
I used the Sika on my patio area , it took 3 days to fully harden at around 18-20 c , had no rain. It’s a year later and it’s still fine , it has been jetwashed lightly with no issues. Best to wet the area , but you’ll notice an oily rainbow effect where it’s touched the slabs, I’m not totally convinced this is better than traditional mortar pointing , it may be quicker , but takes ages to go off and is temperature sensitive. All in all I don’t think I’d use it again.
This is the exact situation I'm in at the moment with the same paving and same resin pointing crumbling, I was thinking of using sika so this video is extremely helpful to me before I take on this task 👍🏻
I'm doing this exact job at the moment. Great idea about keeping the compound under water. I'm compacting it with the edge of an old ceramic tile and shaping with an old piece of hose. Very laborious job!
Used a two part resin, can be applied in the wet, has to be pressed in anyway. Very happy with the results.
I did two large patios with the Sika Fastfix 3 years ago, it cost a fortune but it's much quicker to use than conventional mortar but doesn't last very long at all. Both patios now need raking out and repointing with sand and cement mortar. Some things I found out :-
1. No matter what colour you choose, the resin soon turns black.
2. Weeds readily grow in it .
3. Bleach cleaning compounds such as sodium hypochlorite, dissolve it.
4. Ants eat through it as if it wasn't there and push up piles of sand everywhere.
I followed all the instructions to the letter and tamped it down until it wouldn't compact any more, in places it was 40mm deep but it still failed. I'll never use Resin again, sand and cement might take longer but it's far cheaper and lasts much longer.
Yep my patio experience exactly the same. Plus the contractor redid it for me, foc and the rain & frost destroyed it. Waste of time and money and just a modern day rip off scam. Like those who say we have tarmac left over from a job, want your drive redone!
Mines been down a few years now and still pressure washes up brilliant
My patio / path goes all the way around my four bed house so I reckon this method would indeed, cost a absolute fortune. I've just done a small paved area (14 slabs) outside a bike shed and used dry sharp sand and cement, well pushed in with a small flat trowel. Obviously I've no idea how long it will last, but it was quick, easy and looks great.
Cheers, they're always banging on about saving the the planet but keep pushing stuff that's not environmentally friendly .
Agree 100% with points 1,2 & 4 - never cleaned or jet washed mine due to fear of wrecking the joints as they became flimsy after around 2 years so I can't comment on your point 3. I spent days cleaning out my old sand and cement joints which had lasted around 20 years. I reckon I was down to around 50mm in depth in most places, used the original Geofix and followed instructions to the letter, looked great for around 18/24 months then the joints started to blow, weeds got in despite regularly killing them off, and my worst experience, Ants seem to love it and soon make it look like I've got a beach on my patio!
Another great (and once again timely) video Stuart. I’m about to use the next iteration; a liquified version of it, similar to grout, which you manipulte with a squigee. My challenge is I have a lot of open edges where it could pour out if it isn’t viscose enough. I also have a gradient on one section so a risk of it literally just running downhill…. Wish me luck. 🤔
Hmmm🤔 how interesting. Thanks Stu for doing these experiments. Saw your other vlog with Gorilla expanding pu too. Good to know how to use the grouting compound properly and not waste your money.👍
Excellent video Stuart and very topical as I have literally just come into watch your video after moaning about the weeds that are coming through on my own patio and that I need to get something done about them and now I have the perfect solution
Thanks Stuart I'm just about to do the same job on our path and patio. Your tip keeping it in water is great and doing a small area at a time is very helpful..... thank you.
I found it easier to grind out using an angle grinder with a raking blade, means you can deepen and even straighten the joints if needed. I used the no nonsense brush in pointing equivalent to easy joint and seems really good. The pointing is solid and has survived a pressure washer wash.
When I redid my patio jointing, I used a 500mm long steel pipe atached to rod. This allowed me to compact the joints standing up. It took a bit of practice to get it right but it meant I could fill the joints really well.
I also used a nifty tool from Lidl, that has a wire wheel on a motor, it scraped out the old mortar to a good depth.
I brush in but with plenty of water and brushing so compact as doing but must say it does look better after using a jointer used to just leave full
Thanks mate for the link massive difference in price than b&q wasn't sure what colour to get but loved the colour u got makes the slabs stick out more
I use a brick pointing trowel to compact brushed in resin. You can get these in different widths from just a few mm upwards. They are longer and the same width all along so the compaction is even.
But as you said compaction is crucial
It's about time the industry came out with a system of self-jointing patio slabs!
I had the same problem.
I used a grouting float to compact the new material and it is easy to move the Sika Compound around the joints with it.
As you and the instructions say.
Compaction is the secret.
Do it right.
Do it once.
Good timing fella, I have the same problem on my patios and was thinking about just using sand and cement as it would last longer, and then you kindly make a video on how to do it correctly, thank you
We re did ours a few months ago and the weeds soon come through the silka stuff. As you mentioned though it is back breaking work and me and my wife did a large patio in a day. Probably should have split it into two or 3 days rather than rush.
I’ve tried all these. Also tried building sand and cement, sharp sand and cement. Best I’ve found is sharp sand + building sand (1:1) then that to cement and lime 4:1:1. Pumped into the joint and finished with pointing tool. Still good after 5 years around a pool. Any resin product just crumbles after a few years. It’s ok in a less harsh environment though. I have some of that silka resin under a porch area and it rarely gets wet so it’s ok.
thank you so much. I'm definitley doing it this way!
Great video with some very interesting tips. This should be a video for the contractors to remind them to do the job properly!! I still think they will still just brush in as it will be no quicker than traditional pointing.
Another great tool for removing pointing is a slaters hammer. Keep up the great work 👍
Love these videos Stuart because they always come with a large portion of good advice.
I've been through exactly the same process. The originally pointing has been breaking up for years and I just had to do something about it. I chose the Sika and discovered all the contradictions and tricks to get it all right.
You're spot on, the material HAS to be compacted as much as you can manage to achieve good setting and strength. I did the job last summer and within a few months I'd realised my application had been slightly variable despite best intensions. It's not exactly crazy paving but unfortunately my paving slabs do not have neat, sharp edges and so I was dealing not just with variable depths but variable widths of the gaps - what a challenge!
I'd decided to pick the hottest day of last summer to do the job and I ended up wasted by the end of it. I could have chosen a better day but I went ahead anyway.
I still need to do some making good but know exactly what I need to do now, re-inforced with your experience.
Thanks again.
I managed to get all the grout out with a K7 jet that was on full power. It did a great job.
I found using a multi tool with a half round blade great to remove old jointing material - much safer than an angle grinder.
Thank you, that explains why my contractor installed silicon grout disappeared within 12 months…nil compression!
Thank you for your input and the fact you use metrics👍
I used something similar on my new patio 2 years ago. There was no mention in the instructions about compacting it, but I did start doing this nonetheless. It looks great after being washed but darkens almost immediately and is starting to come out now in places. Next year I’ll probably scrape it out and repoint it with something else.
i did my patio early this year and used the silka compuond ,best way i found to compact joints was to use a finger trowel and it gives a great neat finish
Hi, Great and informative. An idea I have when compacting is to use a tool similar to what brick layer's use, a piece of round bar. As it will leave a concaved form, it can be topped up to the level of the pavers and compacted. Or only do the deeper part of the gap, even in layers and then finish off with the trowel.
This job is on my list to do before winter, loads of useful tips in this video. Thanks Stuart.
I used a similar product on my patio about ten years ago. I was easy to brush in, didn't stain the paving but it took a long time to compact. Whilst it looked great for a couple of years it then started to degrade and lose its strength. At this point weeds started growing, the material cracked and you could just pull it out with your fingers - no need for tools as there was no adhesion at that point (just gravity keeping it in place).
Since then I have been replacing it with ready mixed mortar which is quite cheap. I tried applying this dry to avoid staining the patio stones but found this resulted in a very low strength material that just falls out over time. I now use a fairly wet mortar mix with masking tape on the stones to minimise staining. This results in a much stronger grout with good adhesion that is lasting well and can be pressure washed without it all flying out.
Thanks Stuart, a great overview, something I've never used myself so interesting to know !
Great job! I wasn't going to watch this one, I have too many jobs to get done before my patio needs reviving but as I sit here gazing out over the sorry state of weeds and ant piles emerging from each and every joint, it dawned on me that your insights are invaluable. I'm now armed and ready for when this job nears the top of the todo list. Which one of the 2 did you use, any preference?
All these resin jointing compounds are PERMEABLE. This is a no no. Water penetration into your subbase is only ever going to end in problems. Any patio should be jointed with a non permeable material with all water draining to planned gulley's or acos.
These compounds were originally called Geofix and were for exhibitions. Quickly down for 2 weeks then moved on to the next one. 30 Years i have been at this game so i am giving you my experienced knowledge. btw i love your videos
I have to disagree with you there, I used the Silka fix on my Indian Sandstone patio over four years ago and it has not cracked or shrunk. The resin was compacted after the patio was laid and allowed to dry for a couple of weeks. When laying, the backs of the Sandstone slabs were painted with slurry and properly laid on a full wet bed of mortar. Water will go through most materials into the sub base so using a cement mortar pointing is not going to stop it.
Depending on sub base if laid on sand and cement with a concrete sub base I agree sand and cement jointing should be used. A patio laid on a grit and cement mix with a type 1 or permeable base this stuff is perfect. I’m a landscaping contractor also.
@@adamstone4905 or drill through your laying material every 200mm with a 10mm drill allowing water to penatrate back into the sub grade works.
Hi there. Great timing on this video as I had patio laid by such an incompetent contractor in having to now sort it all out. When you’re disabled, this is t going to be easy. I need to repoint so will learn from the video but my question is: if you bang the heal of your foot on some of the slabs, it sounds hollow or that they’ve moving. Do I just repoint around the slab and hope that it holds it or somehow lift up the sand stone slab and relay? I think o know the answer but it will be hard for me to do option 2 👍🏼
I laid a massive patio, I agree do this part in stages. Like many I probably ignored the instructions. But because I always doubts stuff I went round during installation and by hand forced this stuff sika brand product in to the joints I was convinced in my own head this is what should happen, brushing alone is pointless, yes I got thru many more tubs as a result by forcing this stuff in and I was pleased with the job and finish - so as a result now reviewing the instructions as per video compounding this stuff is key and my logic thinking was right . Ok roll on several years and this product has started to slowing reduce thru out the joints??? But why? It’s the pressure washer, it’s tricky to just wash the stone without clipping the joints so over time this reduction of jointing will slowing remove out of the joints. So I believe it is a given you will be replacing this stuff anyway 4-5 years down the line , if like me you like clean stone and use a pressure washer (with patio attachment ) for cleaning. Purchasing this stuff is cheaper on line however this stuff comes in two bags in the box I have two boxes where this stuff was solid hard , maybe a tear in the sealed wrapper ??? But once hard it’s trash. So if you bought from store, just take it bad, which is easier than if bought on line. Usually the store will replace just one bag not the whole tub, clearly this is a regular problem - but they don’t tell you this. Remember keep this in water, this video is a good demonstration on how to use this product and reminded me of how I did it. Well done this man in the video, great presented video! (Stuart well done)
Another great video! Thanks Stuart 😊
I do landscaping for a living my own business Ive laid loads of patios, I use easy joint, I never just brush it in I go around on my hands and knees and and use my hands to press it in and compact, then use my leaf blower to blow off excess then use joint tool. One of those tubs will do aprox 6sqm. I hit these patios after a couple of years with my karcher petrol washer and not had any joints come out.
EASY joint original sales pitch was that it didn't need jointing, just wet and brush in!!! It did not take long to recognise that it failed when we did this. So we started to brush in and compact with a short length of feather edge board, then do it a second time and then point to finish. it's much better but does not last forever.
Yes exactly, when I bought the Silka stuff about 6 or 7 years ago it was definitely advertised as a brush into the joints only application
Hence to say 2 years later I was scraping it all out and went back to a cement mortar.
Repointed our large patio last year. Really put off by the costs of these jointing compounds; would have been £100s worth of material. So stuck with a bog standard sand/cement mortar and a lot of mixing. But yes, doing the job and compressing properly takes hours and hours. :)
Looks like we got something in common with this video as I’ve just recently did my own video talking on this topic of not brushing it in and troweling it out of the tub wet and forcing in for best compression. So I’m glad we’re in the same boat on this 👍🏴 just subbed
The timing on your videos is spooky I put down 3 tubs of sika on my patio last weekend. One hell of a job raking out and then on my knees hours with the finger pointer, was no quicker than pointing with cement. Thought it was a brush in solution! And expensive too £90 vs £10 of sand and cement. I'll have to see how it holds up!
This is a great channel........it really is. Always good, common sense guidance. I had to chuckle at 9.40......cheeky!🤣
It would be interesting to compare it with other _types_ of jointing compound.
Excellent Stuart, very comprehensive and well demonstrated 👍
Thank you for the correct way of pointing a patio. 👍
Given the bodgers who laid our patio and paving last summer, I am pretty much certain I will be doing this job in the next 12 months - thanks for the video 🙂
Laid my two Indian stone patios March 2007, only now are some of the mortar joints coming loose. To be honest that's only because I forgot to swap out the nozzle on the pressure washer. I am old school old g1t and still do things the old way.
Good vid though, think I'll show it to my neighbour just to prove a point about the "Landscapers😂" who did his patio but didn't want to head some friendly advice😂
Thank you for your advice. As always invaluable knowledge.
Can you do a video on how to weed and clean block paving?
I use my bricklayer bucket handle jointer, that will fit better between your joints, you can run it along a length as apposed to a little bit of wood.
Invaluable info there as I'm just about to have to repoint with Sika again.
I just seen this and asked my builder to compact the joints when he finishes. He seems very hesitant to do this, so I feel I have no choice but to do it myself. Thanks for the education here as it will help in the long run.
Question - Which is better Sika or easy Joint or Easy joint select? I really don't like how graining the easy joint is?
I find having no more than a 3-5mm gap works great and will save you money too. Great vid fella 👍🏻
I used Rompex on mine, and strangely I don't think it said to compact it in the instructions. I did anyway though, too early to tell how good it is as it's only been in for a few months.
The other thing in the instructions that was worrying me was that it was water permeable, so would retain water within the joints. Obviously more water would be held in there with poorly packed joints, which could lead to greater expansion when frozen.
I drilled holes into my sub base at the joints and ensured there was no pooling water (used a semi dry mix which did drain pretty fast also) before compacting it in with a tuck pointer and then brushing over with a hand brush.
I wonder if the amount of water getting in there when not compacted coupled with a fully wet bed might cause it to pop itself out when frozen.
Good video. In my opinion getting down on your hands and knees, sand and cement pointing is much better than sweep in products. Done right it'll last so much longer and also looks so much better on natural stone.
sand , cement, Lyme with PVA a lovely mix
I done my own patio 3 years ago and some parts are starting to go/crumble. Because its so expensive i was thinking of just sticking a dye through a wet slurry (not to wet) mix with the smallest of gravel through it to see if that weathers any better/cheaper/ stronger !! What do you think of this idea stuart ???
Haha, thought you made a typo in the video title, but it actually is 'pointing' and not, as i assumed, 'painting' 😄
This means that, once again, I've learned something new from your videos, Stuart!
I’m from Canada and one of the big things we do differently that makes compacting the jointing material much simpler and less labour intensive is not wet laying our patio, by that I mean we generally do not set the stones in a bed of mortar because with our cold winters the mortar beds crack and move ruining the patio in a year or two. Personally I use a fully permeable base often referred to as an open base consisting of 10-12 inches of 3/4 inch clean crushed stone that’s angular so it locks together when compacted and doesn’t contain fines like dust or sand so water can flow freely through it and then 1 inch of 1/4 inch clean chipped stone as a bedding layer. The benefit of doing it that way is the pavers are not mechanically fastened to the ground and after they are laid while sweeping in the jointing compound we run our roller tamper over everything, compacting the compound and levelling out any lips or high spots in the pavers.
are you sweeping in dry poly sand and vibrating it in? if so how are you managing to keep the permeable properties? I haven't heard of a permeable dry application poly.