I jokingly refer to Ars Magica as "the game that GM's play as players." It's focused on Mages as the primary character and the magic system is amazing as it allows you to create spells and you can even create spells "off the cuff" using the spontaneous magic formula. I'm biased, it's my RPG of choice, but it takes a certain kind of gamer to appreciate it and play it well. As with all niche RPG's, it's a flavor not everybody would enjoy across the board. But if you love playing a mage role, it's a pretty amazing game. Each mage heralds from a tradition (house) that colors the magus characteristics. There's a random "junk drawer" house where a mage can be created that doesn't follow any of the prescribed "classes" or house affiliation of a mage. One of the biggest problems my group had was the combat system - it's rather clunky and as it stands, a non-armored man with a stick could defeat a man in full plate with a sword if you get the right dice rolls. There are times when mental exhaustion sets in and one of the players joked "I need a calculator" as spells rolls are modified by using verbal and hand motion components, what class of aura you are in (Magical, Infernal, Faerie or Divine) and the such. If you don't mind dealing with numbers, this is a game you would enjoy. But the ability to craft spells and magic items of your own design is unparalleled. You can also design and create your group's Covenant (the home base of a group of mages).I'm a massive mage geek, so the game was one I enjoyed tremendously.
I like that description for Ars Magica. It's a great game, and both it and Mage share a load of interesting ideas for the magic system, where it uses a whole load more imagination that just "I cast Magic Missile!"
@@RPGGamer Ars Magica Version... I cast a dart of pure magical energy that will automatically seek, target, and strike my intended foe and deal damage... That would be a Creo Vim (Create 'raw' Magic).
@@RPGGamer - Mage's magic system was inspired by Ars Magica. I recall picking up the old black Ars Magica book (1e I think it was) long ago, late 80s or beginning of the '90s. The magic system blew my mind. Obviously it wasn't just me.
@@NefariousKoel I've always heard that Mage was an attempt to bring Ars Magica into the modern day, and merging it with the World of Darkness just made sense to them.
We played this game for almost 20 years starting our characters in the year 1204. 300 years later a few of us became vampires since the Tremere were first mages who decided to become vampires and subsequently was the end of the rest of the houses of magi.
Sounds like a brilliant and totally epic campaign to gave played in. I remember one of the old Vampire CRPG's, had you meeting mages during the Crusades, and then encountering the Tremere in the modern day and realising that they were the same clan.
There were a few things that stood out in my memory of Ars Magica. One was that the spell list is only a list of worked examples. The magic system works on a verb + noun basis (from a stock list of Latin words - very thematic for medieval academia), so a classic D&D fireball would be achieved by Creo Ignem (create fire) if I remember correctly. It's very flexible. The other thing is that Magi don't gain more magical power from going on adventures, they gain power from research and study. This ties in with rotation among players over getting to play a Magus - when your Magus is your PC you get to enjoy the power of having magic at your command, but you're not learning by traipsing through haunted woods and ruined keeps. The players whose Magi are safe in their libraries and laboratories are the ones getting stronger. There's a fairly deep system for research that models it, and it individualises PC Magi by their choice of research focus, a bit like how typical modern RPGs have talent trees. It's a really fascinating game, I never felt confident I could do it justice as a GM though.
Yeah, a lot of White Wolf games come across as that, personally Wraith I always loved the idea of as a concept, but knew that our group wouldn't do it justice and would despoil it. So I never ever considered running it. I hope I got across some of the stuff about the Magi (although for some reason never mentioned Companions in the video at all) needing to research and study in the video. It's a brilliant concept for keeping your players from using their most powerful characters all the time.
Since you recently covered Pendragon which also has a medieval Europe + folklore/fantasy setting and extensive downtime rules (domain management vs the magical research of Ars Magica), it occurs to me that there could be a very ambitious RPG campaign in combining the two in a merged setting. The Pendragon game follows the exploits of the feudal dynasties while the Ars Magica game follows the growth of the magical college, and the two stories cross paths in major arcs.
@@Dasharr I believe that could be done without too much effort, Ars Magica is a very flexible system and can be adapted to several different genre's, my group even very effectively used it to emulate and run Characters in David Eddings' Belgariad/Malorian world. My troupe was skeptical at first, but after creating their characters, and reviewing the magic system modifications to more emulate magic in that style, their characters felt very much like characters that might have been right out of the books.
5:00 you missed the Companions, the Companions are player characters less powerful than the Mages but more powerful than the Grogs. So for example a Companion might be a Sergeant of the guard, with a contingent of Spearman (Spearman). Because of the Mages interests in researching and building magical items on most adventures with 4 players. You would have a party consisting of 1 Mage, 3 Companions and a selection of Grogs. Even though the Grogs are cannon Fodder, in my experience more experienced Role Players also tend to role play the Grogs.
Since the videos are shot in one take without rehearsal or script, I often miss things and definitely forgot about Companions, only to remember them after I'd finished. Thanks for bringing to my attention and highlighting some excellent points.
I like the review! I find it interesting that artwork plays such a big role in your criticism - while nice artwork is nice, it doesn't have any impact on the experience of playing the game, so it's never hugely bothered me. When I'm actually at the table, I'd rather have the space given to clearing up rules. Imo the main way the Ars Magica system promotes story-driven play is the openness of the system. Because your magus doesn't "level up" by going on adventures and killing monsters, the adventures that happen will need to be tied into your characters own goals and interests - they have no "baked in" motivation to adventure. It might not be as "direct" as some modern games (though 5th edition does some of that with Story and Personality Flaws) but in practice it works really well. Your players get invested and immersed because they are setting their own goals in ways that make sense in character. The SGs job is then to create challenges or opportunities relating to those goals, which generate adventures.
I find that artwork as they say speaks a thousand words, good artwork can really sell a game and it's setting. These videos are only supposed to introduce people on a very general level to a game that perhaps they weren't aware of. There's a load to love about Ars Magica, the group play really makes it stand out as different to other fantasy RPG's, and I hope at least some of that came across.
I have played this Troupe style many times quite successfully. I personally know hundreds of people that have done so also. You have to let go of the idea of "keeping secrets" or "players vs GM".
We played Shadowrun with 3 different GM's at one point, but that worked due to the fact that each Shadowrun was separate, rather than being part of a campaign, so there weren't any real plot points which could be messed up. Me and one of the other GM's planned something between us, but that never came off. I suppose each group funds their own way to game . . . which is the 100% right way it should be.
@@RPGGamer the troupe style doesn't mean there are multiple GMs. it's just the players having more characters. they get a companion and grogs. grogs are shared between the players, but the companions are a unique non-mage character for a single player. their use is that mages can stay in their towers and study their magic while one mage goes on adventure. the other players can send their companions to accompany that one mage. has nothing to do with multiple GMs
@@XpVersusVista Maybe I'm just indecisive, but that's how I play most RPG's, swapping between characters between adventures. Works in Games like Shadowrun which aren't level based, but I seem to remember there being a rule in Dark Sun where when a character levelled, you could level a different character as well, so any backup characters wouldn't lag behind. Thanks for letting me know, as I didn't know there was a name for this way of playing.
My natural anxious self looks for the sarcasm in that statement, but I'll take it as written and say thank you very much, your kind words are appreciated.
Great video! I heavily dislike the enforced Troupe Style of play for the same reason as you do though, enough to not make me want to play or GM this system RAW. But the magic is immensely cool, and I'll probably homebrew it to my games. PS: Will we ever see Classic Traveller or TimeLords in the future?
Totally agree, great magic system, but everything else is a bit lacking. As for Traveller or Timelords, I don't have a copy of Timelords, but I've got an ebay alert set so if there's a copy at a reasonable price, I'll grab it and cover it. Traveller is another game where books have disappeared over the years, I've still got my Mega Traveller and Traveller the New Era rulebooks (and a bunch of sourcebooks), but of all my classic Traveller stuff, I can only find Adventures 1-13, and Double Adventures 1-6, but not the rulebooks. Again, I may have to head to ebay to replace a game I've lost track of over the years.
The magic system is absolutely outstanding, and really makes Ars Magica one of the most interesting rpg's out there, and one which deserves more attention.
@@RPGGamer I'm trying to work out how to integrate a similar magic system into d&d without making it too powerful. I know that moves it away from the covenant idea. However I'm thinking of doing only spontaneous magic, using fatigue for sorcerer and only ritual/learnt magic for Wizard.
@@paulfadden8834 Sounds very cool, it's that kind of customising a game that I adore, tailoring it to exactly what you want for your game and gameworld.
The more I read the core rulebook the more I understand why it's so niche and unpopular. Combat is clunky, right off the bat lore dump, super lawful world, and very restrictive creativity unless you want to throw the entire house mechanic entirely out the window since it relies on the canon history of the game..... The magic spell creation is really really cool and everything else feels unnecessary to be honest
Kind of get what you mean. Everyone who talks about Ars Magica always mentions the systems, how your mage can't advance through play, only through study, so you want your mage to sit at home and advance, giving you a reason on why you should be playing a companion or grog. How the magic system is so imaginative and involving. But I've never heard anyone say that the setting is so amazing.
@@RPGGamer Actually I really enjoy the setting. I have a saga set in medieval Greece. The magi of Hermes there set up a society that inherited the Democratic values of ancient Greece but forces within try to bring them back towards Christian values. The Fae there are all inspired from Greek Mythology, including the old Greek Gods. The 4th Crusade has conquered Constantinople and in it's wake tons of demons have invaded the land corrupting the souls of the locals. Venitians have taken control of the islands in the Aegean sea, bringing the Catholic Church with them and oppressing the local Orthodox church. The Seljuks send raiders in the recovering Byzantium empire in Anatolia. It's just so full of Lore I can use to write scenarios for my group. There's the source book about that Tribunal but also all the books about history and mythology I can use to build up my saga. Thing is, as a European it talks to me probably much more than for people outside EU. We grow up being taught about European History, we can easily travel across Europe and visit the different places and imagine what it would have looked like in 1220.
I jokingly refer to Ars Magica as "the game that GM's play as players." It's focused on Mages as the primary character and the magic system is amazing as it allows you to create spells and you can even create spells "off the cuff" using the spontaneous magic formula. I'm biased, it's my RPG of choice, but it takes a certain kind of gamer to appreciate it and play it well. As with all niche RPG's, it's a flavor not everybody would enjoy across the board. But if you love playing a mage role, it's a pretty amazing game.
Each mage heralds from a tradition (house) that colors the magus characteristics. There's a random "junk drawer" house where a mage can be created that doesn't follow any of the prescribed "classes" or house affiliation of a mage.
One of the biggest problems my group had was the combat system - it's rather clunky and as it stands, a non-armored man with a stick could defeat a man in full plate with a sword if you get the right dice rolls. There are times when mental exhaustion sets in and one of the players joked "I need a calculator" as spells rolls are modified by using verbal and hand motion components, what class of aura you are in (Magical, Infernal, Faerie or Divine) and the such. If you don't mind dealing with numbers, this is a game you would enjoy.
But the ability to craft spells and magic items of your own design is unparalleled. You can also design and create your group's Covenant (the home base of a group of mages).I'm a massive mage geek, so the game was one I enjoyed tremendously.
I like that description for Ars Magica. It's a great game, and both it and Mage share a load of interesting ideas for the magic system, where it uses a whole load more imagination that just "I cast Magic Missile!"
@@RPGGamer Ars Magica Version... I cast a dart of pure magical energy that will automatically seek, target, and strike my intended foe and deal damage... That would be a Creo Vim (Create 'raw' Magic).
@@gregorynelson1568 My point wasn't that you couldn't do magic missile, but that you could do some far more interesting things.
@@RPGGamer - Mage's magic system was inspired by Ars Magica.
I recall picking up the old black Ars Magica book (1e I think it was) long ago, late 80s or beginning of the '90s. The magic system blew my mind. Obviously it wasn't just me.
@@NefariousKoel I've always heard that Mage was an attempt to bring Ars Magica into the modern day, and merging it with the World of Darkness just made sense to them.
We played this game for almost 20 years starting our characters in the year 1204. 300 years later a few of us became vampires since the Tremere were first mages who decided to become vampires and subsequently was the end of the rest of the houses of magi.
Sounds like a brilliant and totally epic campaign to gave played in. I remember one of the old Vampire CRPG's, had you meeting mages during the Crusades, and then encountering the Tremere in the modern day and realising that they were the same clan.
There were a few things that stood out in my memory of Ars Magica. One was that the spell list is only a list of worked examples. The magic system works on a verb + noun basis (from a stock list of Latin words - very thematic for medieval academia), so a classic D&D fireball would be achieved by Creo Ignem (create fire) if I remember correctly. It's very flexible.
The other thing is that Magi don't gain more magical power from going on adventures, they gain power from research and study. This ties in with rotation among players over getting to play a Magus - when your Magus is your PC you get to enjoy the power of having magic at your command, but you're not learning by traipsing through haunted woods and ruined keeps. The players whose Magi are safe in their libraries and laboratories are the ones getting stronger. There's a fairly deep system for research that models it, and it individualises PC Magi by their choice of research focus, a bit like how typical modern RPGs have talent trees.
It's a really fascinating game, I never felt confident I could do it justice as a GM though.
Yeah, a lot of White Wolf games come across as that, personally Wraith I always loved the idea of as a concept, but knew that our group wouldn't do it justice and would despoil it. So I never ever considered running it.
I hope I got across some of the stuff about the Magi (although for some reason never mentioned Companions in the video at all) needing to research and study in the video. It's a brilliant concept for keeping your players from using their most powerful characters all the time.
Since you recently covered Pendragon which also has a medieval Europe + folklore/fantasy setting and extensive downtime rules (domain management vs the magical research of Ars Magica), it occurs to me that there could be a very ambitious RPG campaign in combining the two in a merged setting. The Pendragon game follows the exploits of the feudal dynasties while the Ars Magica game follows the growth of the magical college, and the two stories cross paths in major arcs.
@@Dasharr I believe that could be done without too much effort, Ars Magica is a very flexible system and can be adapted to several different genre's, my group even very effectively used it to emulate and run Characters in David Eddings' Belgariad/Malorian world. My troupe was skeptical at first, but after creating their characters, and reviewing the magic system modifications to more emulate magic in that style, their characters felt very much like characters that might have been right out of the books.
5:00 you missed the Companions, the Companions are player characters less powerful than the Mages but more powerful than the Grogs. So for example a Companion might be a Sergeant of the guard, with a contingent of Spearman (Spearman). Because of the Mages interests in researching and building magical items on most adventures with 4 players. You would have a party consisting of 1 Mage, 3 Companions and a selection of Grogs. Even though the Grogs are cannon Fodder, in my experience more experienced Role Players also tend to role play the Grogs.
Since the videos are shot in one take without rehearsal or script, I often miss things and definitely forgot about Companions, only to remember them after I'd finished.
Thanks for bringing to my attention and highlighting some excellent points.
I like the review! I find it interesting that artwork plays such a big role in your criticism - while nice artwork is nice, it doesn't have any impact on the experience of playing the game, so it's never hugely bothered me. When I'm actually at the table, I'd rather have the space given to clearing up rules.
Imo the main way the Ars Magica system promotes story-driven play is the openness of the system. Because your magus doesn't "level up" by going on adventures and killing monsters, the adventures that happen will need to be tied into your characters own goals and interests - they have no "baked in" motivation to adventure. It might not be as "direct" as some modern games (though 5th edition does some of that with Story and Personality Flaws) but in practice it works really well. Your players get invested and immersed because they are setting their own goals in ways that make sense in character. The SGs job is then to create challenges or opportunities relating to those goals, which generate adventures.
I find that artwork as they say speaks a thousand words, good artwork can really sell a game and it's setting. These videos are only supposed to introduce people on a very general level to a game that perhaps they weren't aware of.
There's a load to love about Ars Magica, the group play really makes it stand out as different to other fantasy RPG's, and I hope at least some of that came across.
The secrets of each GM can be kept in troupe play if each GM doesn't share them.
I have played this Troupe style many times quite successfully. I personally know hundreds of people that have done so also. You have to let go of the idea of "keeping secrets" or "players vs GM".
We played Shadowrun with 3 different GM's at one point, but that worked due to the fact that each Shadowrun was separate, rather than being part of a campaign, so there weren't any real plot points which could be messed up. Me and one of the other GM's planned something between us, but that never came off.
I suppose each group funds their own way to game . . . which is the 100% right way it should be.
@@RPGGamer the troupe style doesn't mean there are multiple GMs. it's just the players having more characters. they get a companion and grogs. grogs are shared between the players, but the companions are a unique non-mage character for a single player. their use is that mages can stay in their towers and study their magic while one mage goes on adventure. the other players can send their companions to accompany that one mage.
has nothing to do with multiple GMs
@@XpVersusVista Maybe I'm just indecisive, but that's how I play most RPG's, swapping between characters between adventures. Works in Games like Shadowrun which aren't level based, but I seem to remember there being a rule in Dark Sun where when a character levelled, you could level a different character as well, so any backup characters wouldn't lag behind.
Thanks for letting me know, as I didn't know there was a name for this way of playing.
Bro you are amazing
My natural anxious self looks for the sarcasm in that statement, but I'll take it as written and say thank you very much, your kind words are appreciated.
5th ed. seems to be the better ed. from the reviews.
Cool, cheers for letting me know as I'm currently without a copy of Ars Magica as I traded mine away and will have to pick a new one up sometime.
Great video! I heavily dislike the enforced Troupe Style of play for the same reason as you do though, enough to not make me want to play or GM this system RAW. But the magic is immensely cool, and I'll probably homebrew it to my games.
PS: Will we ever see Classic Traveller or TimeLords in the future?
Totally agree, great magic system, but everything else is a bit lacking.
As for Traveller or Timelords, I don't have a copy of Timelords, but I've got an ebay alert set so if there's a copy at a reasonable price, I'll grab it and cover it. Traveller is another game where books have disappeared over the years, I've still got my Mega Traveller and Traveller the New Era rulebooks (and a bunch of sourcebooks), but of all my classic Traveller stuff, I can only find Adventures 1-13, and Double Adventures 1-6, but not the rulebooks.
Again, I may have to head to ebay to replace a game I've lost track of over the years.
By far the best things in ARS Magica are the Magic system and the background including the Faye. Everything else is ok.
The magic system is absolutely outstanding, and really makes Ars Magica one of the most interesting rpg's out there, and one which deserves more attention.
@@RPGGamer I'm trying to work out how to integrate a similar magic system into d&d without making it too powerful. I know that moves it away from the covenant idea. However I'm thinking of doing only spontaneous magic, using fatigue for sorcerer and only ritual/learnt magic for Wizard.
@@paulfadden8834 Sounds very cool, it's that kind of customising a game that I adore, tailoring it to exactly what you want for your game and gameworld.
The more I read the core rulebook the more I understand why it's so niche and unpopular. Combat is clunky, right off the bat lore dump, super lawful world, and very restrictive creativity unless you want to throw the entire house mechanic entirely out the window since it relies on the canon history of the game..... The magic spell creation is really really cool and everything else feels unnecessary to be honest
Kind of get what you mean. Everyone who talks about Ars Magica always mentions the systems, how your mage can't advance through play, only through study, so you want your mage to sit at home and advance, giving you a reason on why you should be playing a companion or grog. How the magic system is so imaginative and involving.
But I've never heard anyone say that the setting is so amazing.
@@RPGGamer Actually I really enjoy the setting. I have a saga set in medieval Greece. The magi of Hermes there set up a society that inherited the Democratic values of ancient Greece but forces within try to bring them back towards Christian values. The Fae there are all inspired from Greek Mythology, including the old Greek Gods. The 4th Crusade has conquered Constantinople and in it's wake tons of demons have invaded the land corrupting the souls of the locals. Venitians have taken control of the islands in the Aegean sea, bringing the Catholic Church with them and oppressing the local Orthodox church. The Seljuks send raiders in the recovering Byzantium empire in Anatolia. It's just so full of Lore I can use to write scenarios for my group. There's the source book about that Tribunal but also all the books about history and mythology I can use to build up my saga.
Thing is, as a European it talks to me probably much more than for people outside EU. We grow up being taught about European History, we can easily travel across Europe and visit the different places and imagine what it would have looked like in 1220.