I consider MBTI and Enneagram personality tests to be excellent resources to lay the foundation for a character, but that's the full extent of their usefulness. People don't fit in neat boxes and any attempt to generalize personality will ultimately fall flat.
in mbti, if you study the cognitive functions, you'll know that nobody fits the types to a T. People can have better developed inferior functions (and vice versa) than others producing an entirely different, possibly more unique person.
i find mbti help me indentify which trait that let me maximize my work and creative performance as well as which trait can and or should be changed at particular situations. its helpful when you realize that some trait might have underlying personal value
@@mpmedia6735 i am a t, in real life you'll probaysee me as a cold emotionally distant freak with stroke of toxic positivity and very low emotional intelligence ( although emotional intelligence doesn't exist lol) but yeah, i suppose we all T's cant fully be T since we're all honestly full of emotion, but some supress it better than others and it has work it's functions in my experience although not without drawbacks ( eg, supressing anxiety in stage but babbling like a smartass without actually knowing the facts)
@@rafaeterna1081 here's the issue. You're probably going off of 16 personalities or mbti at face value and haven't bothered to look into cognitive functions. Everyone has a thinking and feeling function; however, either function will be superior or inferior in terms of the order of the their function stack. Thinker types will have an emotional function - but that function will always be something they aren't as good with and will have to develop (same goes with a feeler but in reverse). Thinker types aren't robots. They are very much so humans and experience the entire emotional spectrum - it's just that when it comes to decision making they will prioritize logic over feelings (in particular other people's and sometimes theirs).
@@mpmedia6735 holdup, aren't mbti is the cognitive functions ? i kean there's probably major and minor functions although expert knowledge seems required to really understand that, i suppose i use it to see how people *solve* problems. fyi i use to to suit other people's work style on a group project
The Enneagram has been a godsend to my life. I highly recommend studying it (more than Myers-Briggs) to understand yourself and others much better. It’s the best tool I’ve ever encountered for understanding personalities. I use it, too, for developing my characters in stories.
@@cbalan777 I'm guessing there's no "true" way to understand personality and that you're better off choosing whichever method makes the most sense to you and your workflow.
@@theoriginaltommysteward If your goal is to be scientific, then The Big Five really is the only somewhat solid option we have right now. As for character writing, both Myers-Briggs and The Enneagram can be great tools to inform behavior, since they provide a nice pre-defined system for contrast and interactions. They are basically used like zodiac signs and blood types (in eastern media), precisely because you are the god of your own world. So even if the systems are actually as scientifically accurate as a horoscope in real life, your "magic system" can make it as true as you like.
While I personally found The Enneagram surprisingly useful and actually like as a philosophical system, we should keep in mind that it's about as scientifically sound as a religious book. Which is not to say its useless. Likewise, there definitely is wisdom in it. It can actually make some good predictions, and there is quite some nuance if you dig deeper. But complexity should not be mistaken for accuracy. At its core it is a very specific web of character traits derived from pre-defined categories based on a set of vices derived from religion. Even soft sciences like psychology and sociology will have a hard time to work with that.
@@LinkEX Agree totally with your previous comment and Alan's, but to me, 'it can actually make some good predictions' is totally at odds with 'it's about as scientifically sound as a religious book'. The reason the big five is scientific is because it's reproducible, i.e. the same or similar results for any given person from test to test, and it can make predictions. The enneagram just can't do that (assuming it even has some system to define your personality even, I'm not familiar with it) and neither can myers briggs (again, maybe it can produce _some,_ but not enough to justify its system or validity etc.). So, given all that, I don't think it really is all that you've said it is, you know, wise, nuanced, etc. To me, most personality tests that aren't the big five are sometimes more like self-helps; they employ slightly complex and oddly satisfying systematization that can give someone a sense of uniqueness or even identity; many times it even comes with a goal and something to avoid, which to my knowledge is what psychiatrists utilize to help their patients change for the better. This can make someone _feel_ like they're suddenly realizing something about themselves and others and finding their place in society and the world, which I don't think is too controversial to conclude that's generally what brings people happiness. The big five just doesn't do that, at least to the same extent; it's much more descriptive in very simple ways and it doesn't 'assign' something to you, it places you at certain points on multiple spectrums of multiple traits that everyone possesses to some extent. Doesn't make me feel special or unique; doesn't give me a sense of placement in society; and so on. Although, maybe I'm misunderstanding here, so I'm more than happy to be educated on where I'm mistaken.
@@skrubbed Yup, exactly this. Highly depends on my state too. If I'm fully rested I tend to have this less. But it's mostly just the stringing together of words in my head to see where I'd end up and if that's satisfactory.
@@jesperburns I'm so glad to not be the only one who felt this!!! I want to say it's an adhd thing, what with attention deficit and all... I could really feel it in the beginning and whenever he starts to ramble on out of nowhere, trying to wrestle a million thoughts into a coherent set of words is/can be incredibly difficult.
The Enneagram is about volition, what the character's desire is, their motivating WILL. There are other personality typing systems that cover emotions (the four temperaments) and styles of thinking. The Myers-Briggs is about processing information: extrovert/introvert is the intake of information, sensor/intuitive filters out "irrelevant" information, thinking/feeling processes the information, and perception/judgment makes a decision based on that information. But yeah. The Enneagram is completely awesome.
The enneagram is not about volition - it's about your core fears and what you're avoiding in order to feel safe. It can motivate anything, one's willpower, emotions ,reasoning abilities, etc.
I want to read the book Beyond Prozac and see what the author says about human distress. He says that some people, not all people, of course, but that some aren't necessarily mentally ill as much as they are experiencing human distress. The author also has a book entitled Selfhood. I want to read that too. It goes over the components of selfhood. My characters live in a space of selfhood, and I want to understand.
Ok, Jeff Kitchen is a stud! I just ordered The Wisdom Of The Enneagram and I literally just matched up a whole bunch of my characters to their specific personality styles. Now when I'm writing a scene, I literally just flip to their specific personality style and use it to develop the scene and write the dialogue accoriding to their character style. This is perfect, thank you!!
I worked with Jeff on an epic desert survival script and we used Enneagrams to help develope the characters. It was a very effective tool that enhanced the process.
Enneagram’s are excellent. A therapist friend recommended it to me. It’s so rich and you can easily use it to build arcs unlike Myers-Briggs. I wished I’d discovered it much earlier.
Oh hello fellow Enneagrammer. Wow, very nice, sophisticated explanation of a very difficult system to capture in words. Carl Jung said that's it's so hard to talk about the archetypes because they're so broad, but the enneagram makes it possible to capture the human personality in words, but only if you're well-studied in it can you articulate it's subtle concepts. Not many people do it well. When I first learned the Enneagram, I couldn't stop talking about it. Now 10 years later, I don't even know where to start, I don't even want to try, it's a lot of work, it's just so subtle, but once you see it, you can't unsee it, and if your life was hanging together by a thread, it may blow the bottom out of your life, but in a good way. It was absolutely the most important thing I have ever learned. When I was in a workshop hearing about it for the first time, I had a distinct line pop into my head: "I was born to learn this. This is what I've been waiting for for my life to begin". And it saved my life, and over the last decade has steadied it enormously. And actually it's made me bored with the "wisdom" that life has to offer. It's kind of a blessing and a curse because it spoils you-- you have seen the psychological model that captures humans in their complexity, basically meditation on steroids, so people don't surprise you anymore, but they also don't intimidate you anymore. The wisdom of the world is boring and trite, but it also doesn't lead you astray anymore. Relationships are less difficult because instead of treading water in an angry ocean, your feet are touching the ground, but it also kind of feels like you're in the kiddie pool. Kinda unsatisfying. Ok I'm not that enlightened, I'm just going through a bored phase. Still lots and lots to learn. Anyway, this was nurturing. Thanks.
I was introduced as "the thing i am about to tell you is gonna blow your mind" but as i read further you were explaining how it blew your mind. Also, your words are always contradicting each other. I don't mean it is false. Who can judge but the contrast between each word is so high that they cancel each. Are you satisfied or bored. Is it a curse or is wisdom. Which one is it. Is it meditative or aggressive like steroids. In the end that makes you telling nothing. I am writing this comment because i am annoyed but it still holds constructive criticism on your writing.
Such a brilliant tool. The thing I love about it the most is how you can use believable characteristics to sculpt character relationships that easily generate natural conflicts
Exactly. A lot of my stories are focused heavily on inter- and intrapersonal relationships, and I get to see through naturally flowing dialog how my characters are similar and different in their basic beliefs. Like justice vs mercy, (un)justifiable violence, etc. which continue through the story as a constant secondary conflict, hopefully having readers question their own thoughts on the situations and seeing the other side of the issues.
The funny thing is, I see myself in so many of the enneagram types: I had a lot of the "helper" but was more seen as the "achiever" growing up, but then switched to full-blown "helper" when I found my calling as a young teenager, then after a traumatic experience briefly flopped over to the "enthusiast" ("So I'll just have fun since my 'dream' was just ripped away from me"), then launched into mature "achiever" again in college, segued into a super quirky "Individualist," slipped back into the "helper" after graduating and imagining I had found true love and meaningful (to both sides) connection, started a project as an outstanding "individualist" (always fighting the lazy irresponsible bent of the enthusiast after my early crash), took action during a brief, reactionary stint as the "challenger" after being betrayed as a naive "helper" by a guy and his family, then realised I was always mainly the "helper" in a perfect world. So, I guess the book character would go with the most prominent, deep-seated, original natural traits (I kept slipping back into the "helper" when I thought things were going reasonably well, if only in my silly imagination). Hmmm....
HOLY COW!!!!! MIND IS BLOWN!!!! FILM COURAGE, SERIOUSLY, THANK YOU SO MUCH, AGAIN!!!! this channel constantly and consistently brings value to my life! I really appreciate all that you do!
Me and my husband love typing characters in movies. Such an amazing tool for character building and also for the viewers being able to identify with the characterts struggle/growth.
It's interesting, but so confining. The fact that he said his character could fit most of the categories says it all. Most people aren't one thing, so why try to box a character in. Of course, you can start with any archetype or "enneagram" types...but eventually, your character should feel too complex for any of that, because now they are more like a real person that can't be boxed in.
I used to think so but then the more I observed, studied and put it into practice I discovered it was very expansive and gave me so much more empathy and insights into humans! Anyway it's just a tool - relax!!! - Stop being So ONE about it. lol
I dont think the enneagram boxes ppl in, it fluctuates depending on your health levels (there are like 9 stages to it), your wing (having some of the traits of other types) and how you behave like when u grow or desintegrate (then we tend to act like a different types' interior Motivations/feelings). And as far as I got it it picks up on your 'possible' fears, desires etc and explains your behaviours based on these driving powers (fear/flaw, desire), you can choose if these fears, desires resonate within you...
it's amazing how the craft of cinema, helps us ( if we were to use it for our personal growth) see our human complexity. The process of recreating human stories cast light on us and what we are. I often entertain the thought of creating an Android with perfect empathy, strength, etc. That process helps me realize personality traits I want to develop more in myself. let me go back to writing for my pleasure. I love TH-cam so much. The comments sections are always as valuable as the video, when the video is of good value. Really good stuff here.
The Enneagram is a bomb! but the information he mentioned after...is tremendous. we learned with this man a lot,is awesome . very very useful! love it!
I like this idea because I strive to create characters who remind my readers of people they may have known or observed. This makes your writing more psychologically accurate and realistic. You can also take into account what a character's enneagram wing type would be to add another layer of complexity.
This seems to help a lot. BTW (this may seem goofy) but do I take both the mbti and the enneagram answering the questions in the wah my character would? Or do I just slap their mbti and enneagrams down? I don't like the 2nd option. My goal here is to try and find the right personality for my character but I have trouble expressing it, so I would really like to understand here.
I had a professor who told us “the difference between a maladaptive behavior/poor coping etc. and pervasive personality issues or disorders is awareness” For so long we (psychologists esp) talk about managing symptoms & all this criteria + the ways in which aspects of functioning must be affected by said criteria in certain ways, yet we fail to attend to the spectrum-ness & relative and contextual nature of our mental states. Enneagrams represent huge step towards understanding the internal & taking into account the effects/influence of external (including the external solely as an observer). This was a cool video. I used to act a bit here and there.. didn’t think about personality types, but I remember the roles I went for, that I perceived as “fun” for me (which I needed to justify going to auditions because I was young and didn’t have external support with regards to any creative/artistic crafts, so I carried a fear of pursuing it whole-heartedly), but the roles I could ‘justify’ were all representative of almost Jungian archetypes and characteristics that I really disliked in people & would get triggered by.. it led to cool shadow work. Acting requires an unconditional compassion towards the character you’re playing so even if you hate them, you have to love them in a sense .. it really deepened my compassion. At our core, we are all each other at one point in time in one way or another. If that makes sense. I really enjoyed this video, thank you!!
Idk who Derek and Skyler are, but there is an Indian movie called Yeh Jawaani Hai Dewaani and the two lead characters are EXACTLY how he describes, right down to the personality clashing/meshing together. Using enneagram is such a good tip, thanks!
I wouldn't use this at the start of character creation process, but I can see that it could be useful to go back and check characters one has already written against this tool, just to see if they can be refined and deepened any further. Otherwise it's a bit like writing music by starting from music theory. It may be accurate, but it's lifeless. Better to just start with a good tune and only then see how theory applies to it.
We can be many of these types and go in and out of them throughout the day. Vedic astrology gives a very complex understanding of different types of motivations, trajectories and natures of characters. Real people are way more complex, but this is a good place to start.
Another great interview thank you film courage, and another great tool. The enneagram has allowed me to build believable characters that are consistent with their actions and reactions to the plot.
How we percieve ourselves, and how we interact with the world creates a sense if self. That is beyond the enneagram or mbti. But it is an important tool because you have to form a baseline for your character so you can begin attributing character traits and show how he or she percieves themselves and interacts with the world around them. Their happiness or distress will be affected by those perceptions and interactions.
For years, Psychiatry has tried to fit people into neat little boxes with well defined edges. Each year it fails, so every few years it comes up with a book more boxes. i.e. DSM-5. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. Real people don’t fit into boxes. Still with fictional characters you must start somewhere. And this is a good start.
I didn't even know enneagram's existed because I'm an amateur writer of fiction, but I always want to improve so this is neat to learn about it. I will use it now, especially since I took it to see more about myself. It was spot on for who I was, and showed me things I hadn't thought about.
It's a good starting point as MBTI or RPG character generators. You still face the challenge of writing a character that feels consistent without being predictable.
My wife exposed ennegram to me years ago. Never thought to apply to my character building until I saw this. Makes perfect sense. I'm trying to use it now as I do my character pass of my rewrite. It is helping me with how characters think and how to frame their dialogue.
Great video and great insight! Been using this for years now and I couldn't agree more. It is an excellent tool for writers in the creative process and also a way to "test" the consistency of your characters. See if the desicions they are making make sense, for example.
Another cool system to look at is the Colour system found in Magic the Gathering (roughly 24 possible combos rougly with subtypes within those as well)💭. I've combined both enneagram and the colour philosophy system and it works great (I'd recommend watching "Dicetry" and "The Mana Source" for some explanation).
This is great if writing from a character's perspective. But a good story is not limited by that. World building is the bigger piece of good story writing. And what you want to achieve through your story. But it is very handy to profile people in certain ways.
Great video. Interesting speaker, and really appreciate how he describes using the enneagram. I'm going to implement this into my own process. Thank you for covering this.
I love this. Been into the enneagram for quite some time. In terms of making a difference in my personal life.. ehh.. there's better tools. In terms of writing characters in fiction.. heeeeeeyyy!!
The Big Lebowski: The Dude - type 9 Walter - type 8 Bunny Lebowski - type 7 Donny - type 6 The Nihilists - type 5 Maude Lebowski - type 4 Jackie Treehorn - type 3 Brandt the butler - type 2 Jeffrey Lebowski - type 1
Personality tests are great as starting points, but that's all they will ever be. If you go through your life thinking about ppl as their personality types then you will never truly get to know who they are. We are all every personality type to some extent, and under different circumstances.
It isn’t. This is a wicked art and I wish you people had enough sense to care about your being and your bloodlines. AGAIN thou like tiny creatures you will prove why you don’t deserve to know anything. If you can’t respect yourself absent minded smh. Anyways the ART IS CALLED “ In finte state machine” It is the practice of STATE/PHASES in ma’gkc. It’s code of geniuses. It’s a game I wish you all comprehended you are not the players. Games Room players 3 KIngs. YOU ALL ARE PICKING SIDES. Which is it? This room has games and players. This earth has lessons and teachers. Tv shows Movie Epic-Sode
When he says “Armand” he’s talking about Armand Dimele, who was the BEST!! He had a radio show on WABI in NYC up until he died. Highly recommend exploring the archives 🙏🏻
Types 2, 3, and 4 are the image types, 5, 6, and 7 are the intellectual/fear types, and 8, 9, and 1 are the anger types. I myself, am a 9 with an 8 and 1 wing.
When you ask someone a direct question, and the first words out of his mouth are vapid marketing copy and buzz phrases instead of a direct answer, you've got yourself a scam artist
One of the only things I got from getting into astrology was being able to recognize the zodiac signs when I see them (In theory of course. I don't just go on the street and know when/where people were born)
Physical appearance depends more on the Ascendant than the Sun sign. The Ascendant is your interface with the world and is how you appear to those who don't know you well.
From the very first Character that I ever actively profiled, instead of just pouring drivel from my head onto the page "as it came to me"... I started with a "Player's Handbook" and went through "Character Creation" from Alignment to Stat's, Class, Race, Skills and Powers, and so forth in D&D... AND among the most useful "Supplements" (also known as "Splat Books") for D&D was "The Big Book of Villains"... In those pages, I started asking the things about villains, like "How did he/she turn to evil?" and started thinking more about the fact that nobody just wakes up one morning and decides, "Hey, I think I'm going to take up being a TRULY sh*tty person." Maybe some of us have a certain proclivity or pre-disposition that can add to our chances of being "an evil bastard"... BUT the mantra on TTRPG's is consistent if nothing else. "Everybody is the PROTAGONIST of their own novel." We RP'ers also often say things like "If you live long enough, you'll eventually turn into the villain." It's interesting, and there are SO MANY Character building and development systems and mechanics in TTRPG's it's just ridiculous. Every RPG seems to have a new and different way to create personalities, from GURPS with an open ended series of Disadvantages, Advantages, and then Stat's, and Skills... You don't even really get Templates to start to cookie cutter anything... unless there might be some in a Splat Book somewhere for guidance. In the Basic Set, at least, there's a few examples, but largely nothing to speak of for a framework... Then there's Call of Cthulu, where in the first edition, almost EVERYONE was a detective or investigator of some kind... with a backstory as to how they became a detective. I mean, you COULD technically build about anybody, but the majority middle of the curve were detectives as simple as that. Some games have a series of steps with questions and dice rolls to randomize how your Character is cultivated and starts out, and others have a short list of prompts and the format of a Character Sheet, a visual and relatively basic profiling form... at least for the numbers and figures that explain how the Character will function with the mechanics (read dice and situations) inside the Game itself... When we Play, the RP is all the artistic stuff of "Acting" where you declare actions, make choices, and navigate the world of the Game (like Forgotten Realms or Greyhawke in D&D)... There are relative dictations from the Dice, where things are up to chance, but YOU (Player) still make the active choices for the Character... If he's going to draw a sword, you choose and declare it... If he's going to throw a fireball, then YOU have to declare and choose that... BUT the dice decide whether the sword hits and how much damage it does WHEN you've declared an attack on another Character or Monster... or how much damage and how big the Fireball is when it's thrown... They get the intangible part of WILL you accomplish this or that. You can choose and declare your Character is TRYING to do about anything. The stat's and numbers set his chance per roll of doing whatever you say you want to do. In any case, things like the Enneagram are interesting. It's always fun to try to get a more complete or better intimate understanding of a Character (even that I create it) "under the hood" so to say, and this might be an interesting exercise if nothing else. ;o)
Ooo, "How did he/she turn to evil?" That's the million-dollar question here to craft dimensional, original villains. I think maybe each of them started as one of the types, then maybe deteriorated to the point of even switching types altogether, but then not learning from the trials but simply reacting to them if they were not raised with solid morals to keep them from hurting others even during horrible disappointments, for example, especially disappointments they imagine were the result of others' actions instead of taking responsibility for their own inexperience or laziness.
So, it is important to know that people do not change radically from one type to another suddenly. Over long periods of time, some wing may get more growth than others. If you have a 5w6 with a weak 8 wing, that is a radically different person than the 5w6 with a very strong 8 wing. That change alone might be a character arc for an entire story which took place over a lifetime. What is unlikely to happen is that a 5w6 would suddenly become a type 1...at least not without serious trauma and character defects.
The enneagram is even more complex than this. Each type also has a wing, which is s neighboring type that further informs how you present, what you value. It has three different instinctual variants, (sexual, self preservation, and I forget the other..) also, each type tends to integrate or disintegrate toward another type in it's triad based on your psychological health level. It goes deep
i watched other people's videos for a few hours, and the more interesting theories of it are the ones NOT advocating for it, as the ones that DO don't seem to explain much of anything. i've come to the assumption the enneagram is a tool that people use to "worship" a particular value. which "god" of a value do you place on the highest pedestal? this assumption is one that i take from one lady who argues against the enneagram's use for practicing christianity with several reasons, and a philosophy channel that used the word "worship" to highlight the message he was trying to explain. but it made sense to me since the enneagram itself doesn't really have a logical structure. it's just a bunch of archetypes in very pretty formats. do our personalities follow very pretty and geometrical formats like the enneagram suggests? NO. but it is very comforting to think that something so complex can be confined into this box. so how do people interpret the enneagram? i was very confused. i did not see the logical through line of how people viewed this personality model. but the theory that people are using this enneagram to find which value that they identify with the most, and then they can choose to "worship" it and its subsequent values with its "arrows" and "wings" made more sense to me. people aren't following this because it makes sense. they follow the enneagram... because it makes them feel GOOD. it validates them. and... as much as i can appreciate the value that THEY extract from this... eh, whatever. i extract value from stories and they're all made up too. anyways. enneagram. TLDR: IT'S A PAGAN SYMBOL FOR WHICH GOD YOU PREFER TO WORSHIP, IF YOU WANT AN EASY WAY TO UNDERSTAND BOTH IT AND THE PEOPLE WHO FOLLOW IT. edit: it's not really a pagan symbol. i don't know where it came from. the philosophy video said that two latin american academics stole it from a russian guy (i forget his profession), who MAY have stole the general symbol from a middle eastern religion. i have no idea if the actual symbol is "pagan" or not. i was just using it to illustrate how each number correlates to a "god" or value. kind of like the greek and roman gods, and how they all represented something.
Hey Karen from Film Courage. Have you gotten started in making this indie film with Derek and Skylar a reality? It seems so intriguing from what's discussed here.
"Ancient wisdom" usually becomes outdated speculation. Archetypes are for storytelling, no longer our most useful way for understanding actual unique human beings. Fine to use this or whatever for inspiring fictional character development. But do reserve some skepticism if employing pseudo-psychology systems like this one to judge and label real live people.
It was an exciting discovery for me BUT let me just give you an advice about the video : it would've been better with the enneagram in the background when Maestro Kitchen speaks. See ?...
I can see how an enneagram could help develop characters for stories, but when I go through the personality descriptions there were like 3 or 4 that would fit my own.
Wow wise words... I'm so touched😂 did you recently learn that? Lol. Ok so usually commenting is a cheap way of communicating, but since you were rude and judgmental as heck, ima proves you're wrong, with your own hands. Kiddo! List aaall the useful things you learned from this crap. You'd be surprised lmao. You see, I'm not a negative person unlike you! (since you judged aaaand kindly told someone to shut up, which isn't a sophisticated thing to do if you're aware of your words, genius) I just don't buy bs. If you're like most ppl and nod to every crap you see, well, good luck with that! Isn't none of my business if you like stupidity lmao Piece out✌️ (write your damn list before judging ppl next time)
@@BelamarEutravos You're wrong. @Sahel is right if he expresses negativity as others who may be misled by the bs Jeff is spouting may then see the negative comment and realise that yes in fact this is just bs to further "mystify" the process. You show off and say "leave it to the pros". In my view, a professional is someone who's been paid and sold at least one successful screenplay that became a movie in this business. What have you done to be so high and mighty? Please share your "pro" credentials. I also checked Jeff Kitchen on IMDb he has ONE "Thanks" credit for some unknown film!!! Unbelievable, so this guy is a "pro"? So listen, best to get off your high horse and close your mouth.
Do U agree that perhaps the ennyagram ascribes too much to nurture at the expense of nature? That is, the two childhood wounds from the trigger incident, are interpreted according to ones apriora genetic tendenceys. Two individuals, different from birth, suffer different wounds and wind up as different numbers.
A blend of ancient wisdom, eh? I've been using Astrology to create characters for 20 years already. So what do you want 9 types (Enneagram), 12 types (Astrology), or 16 types (Myers-Briggs). I'd like to know who's in charge of creating or perhaps "repackaging" or Astrology (which has more than the historical record (unknowable millennia) of continuous development by human interlocutors. And while we're at it, lets check in with Jung. Those who dismiss Astrology out of hand, have NEVER looked at it in any depth.
Hi, I scored a 98 on 3, 97 on 3 and 89 on 7. I cant seem to find any information that talks about being a 3, 8, or 3,8, and 7. Can you help? I have a steady positive mood, full of energy, uplifting, caring, direct, assertive, someone who cares about goals and will strive to lengths to achieve them. I personally don't have any set goals so I haven't been working as hard as I know I can. I'm in tune with my emotions and I can articulate what I'm feeling. I'm generally the life of a party and some people consider me to be a party animal. I'm not sure if this helps but I am a ENFP-A and ENFJ-A. The first time was a enfp-a and around a year later my results showed that u was a enfj-a.
Evey actor includes their enneagram profile type with their headshot to match them to the right character. lol I also like the DISC & KOLBE plus a few other tools to get an even more distinct profile.
"While Enneagram teachings have attained some degree of popularity, they have also received criticism including accusations of being pseudoscience, subject to interpretation and difficult to test or validate scientifically, 'an assessment method of no demonstrated reliability or validity'. In 2011 the scientific skeptic Robert Todd Carroll included the Enneagram in a list of pseudoscientific theories that 'can't be tested because they are so vague and malleable that anything relevant can be shoehorned to fit the theory'. A 2020 review of Enneagram empirical work found mixed results for the model's reliability and validity. The study noted that the ipsative version of the Riso-Hudson Enneagram Type Indicator (scores on one dimension decrease scores on another dimension) had troubles with validity, whereas the non-ipsative version of the test has been found to have better internal consistency and test-retest reliability. Furthermore, it was found that 87% of individuals were able to accurately predict their Enneagram type (before taking the test) by being read descriptions of each type.' "
The enneagram was re discovered by George Gurdjieff .....a mystic of Armenian and Greek heritage.....He was the founder of the 4th way.......this talk would have been hear say from one of the 4th way pupils through many people to you tube.
Here is a writing exercise video where Jeff Kitchen shows how he uses the enneagram - th-cam.com/video/mT7dX2cjrM8/w-d-xo.html
Thank you so much. I was looking for something like this.
I consider MBTI and Enneagram personality tests to be excellent resources to lay the foundation for a character, but that's the full extent of their usefulness. People don't fit in neat boxes and any attempt to generalize personality will ultimately fall flat.
in mbti, if you study the cognitive functions, you'll know that nobody fits the types to a T. People can have better developed inferior functions (and vice versa) than others producing an entirely different, possibly more unique person.
i find mbti help me indentify which trait that let me maximize my work and creative performance as well as which trait can and or should be changed at particular situations. its helpful when you realize that some trait might have underlying personal value
@@mpmedia6735 i am a t, in real life you'll probaysee me as a cold emotionally distant freak with stroke of toxic positivity and very low emotional intelligence ( although emotional intelligence doesn't exist lol) but yeah, i suppose we all T's cant fully be T since we're all honestly full of emotion, but some supress it better than others and it has work it's functions in my experience although not without drawbacks ( eg, supressing anxiety in stage but babbling like a smartass without actually knowing the facts)
@@rafaeterna1081 here's the issue. You're probably going off of 16 personalities or mbti at face value and haven't bothered to look into cognitive functions. Everyone has a thinking and feeling function; however, either function will be superior or inferior in terms of the order of the their function stack. Thinker types will have an emotional function - but that function will always be something they aren't as good with and will have to develop (same goes with a feeler but in reverse). Thinker types aren't robots. They are very much so humans and experience the entire emotional spectrum - it's just that when it comes to decision making they will prioritize logic over feelings (in particular other people's and sometimes theirs).
@@mpmedia6735 holdup, aren't mbti is the cognitive functions ? i kean there's probably major and minor functions although expert knowledge seems required to really understand that, i suppose i use it to see how people *solve* problems. fyi i use to to suit other people's work style on a group project
The Enneagram has been a godsend to my life. I highly recommend studying it (more than Myers-Briggs) to understand yourself and others much better. It’s the best tool I’ve ever encountered for understanding personalities. I use it, too, for developing my characters in stories.
If you want to understand personality the Big Five is way better than this or the INJF type stuff.
@@cbalan777 I'm guessing there's no "true" way to understand personality and that you're better off choosing whichever method makes the most sense to you and your workflow.
@@theoriginaltommysteward If your goal is to be scientific, then The Big Five really is the only somewhat solid option we have right now.
As for character writing, both Myers-Briggs and The Enneagram can be great tools to inform behavior, since they provide a nice pre-defined system for contrast and interactions.
They are basically used like zodiac signs and blood types (in eastern media), precisely because you are the god of your own world. So even if the systems are actually as scientifically accurate as a horoscope in real life, your "magic system" can make it as true as you like.
While I personally found The Enneagram surprisingly useful and actually like as a philosophical system, we should keep in mind that it's about as scientifically sound as a religious book.
Which is not to say its useless. Likewise, there definitely is wisdom in it.
It can actually make some good predictions, and there is quite some nuance if you dig deeper.
But complexity should not be mistaken for accuracy.
At its core it is a very specific web of character traits derived from pre-defined categories based on a set of vices derived from religion.
Even soft sciences like psychology and sociology will have a hard time to work with that.
@@LinkEX Agree totally with your previous comment and Alan's, but to me, 'it can actually make some good predictions' is totally at odds with 'it's about as scientifically sound as a religious book'. The reason the big five is scientific is because it's reproducible, i.e. the same or similar results for any given person from test to test, and it can make predictions. The enneagram just can't do that (assuming it even has some system to define your personality even, I'm not familiar with it) and neither can myers briggs (again, maybe it can produce _some,_ but not enough to justify its system or validity etc.). So, given all that, I don't think it really is all that you've said it is, you know, wise, nuanced, etc.
To me, most personality tests that aren't the big five are sometimes more like self-helps; they employ slightly complex and oddly satisfying systematization that can give someone a sense of uniqueness or even identity; many times it even comes with a goal and something to avoid, which to my knowledge is what psychiatrists utilize to help their patients change for the better. This can make someone _feel_ like they're suddenly realizing something about themselves and others and finding their place in society and the world, which I don't think is too controversial to conclude that's generally what brings people happiness. The big five just doesn't do that, at least to the same extent; it's much more descriptive in very simple ways and it doesn't 'assign' something to you, it places you at certain points on multiple spectrums of multiple traits that everyone possesses to some extent. Doesn't make me feel special or unique; doesn't give me a sense of placement in society; and so on. Although, maybe I'm misunderstanding here, so I'm more than happy to be educated on where I'm mistaken.
The way this man takes a brief pause to think and reflect what to say is admirable. I wonder how is the world inside his mind
He isn't reflecting hes finding his train of thought
I think he's just trying to be very deliberate and clear with what words he chooses because it's such a complex idea. Which I agree with Augusto on
i do this too, and personally it is so i can word what i'm saying properly and internally process it to see if it makes sense
@@skrubbed Yup, exactly this. Highly depends on my state too. If I'm fully rested I tend to have this less.
But it's mostly just the stringing together of words in my head to see where I'd end up and if that's satisfactory.
@@jesperburns I'm so glad to not be the only one who felt this!!! I want to say it's an adhd thing, what with attention deficit and all... I could really feel it in the beginning and whenever he starts to ramble on out of nowhere, trying to wrestle a million thoughts into a coherent set of words is/can be incredibly difficult.
The Enneagram is about volition, what the character's desire is, their motivating WILL. There are other personality typing systems that cover emotions (the four temperaments) and styles of thinking. The Myers-Briggs is about processing information: extrovert/introvert is the intake of information, sensor/intuitive filters out "irrelevant" information, thinking/feeling processes the information, and perception/judgment makes a decision based on that information.
But yeah. The Enneagram is completely awesome.
really good point. Ya more layers and different take on our human complexity.
5w4: My Highest Honor: _I couldn't have said it better myself!_ 😸🏅
The enneagram is not about volition - it's about your core fears and what you're avoiding in order to feel safe. It can motivate anything, one's willpower, emotions ,reasoning abilities, etc.
I want to read the book Beyond Prozac and see what the author says about human distress. He says that some people, not all people, of course, but that some aren't necessarily mentally ill as much as they are experiencing human distress. The author also has a book entitled Selfhood. I want to read that too. It goes over the components of selfhood. My characters live in a space of selfhood, and I want to understand.
Dude, I want to look up this book just to make epic dnd characters
Yes
Correct
man of culture spotted
Me but for writing fanfic
Fuck yes me too lol
Ok, Jeff Kitchen is a stud! I just ordered The Wisdom Of The Enneagram and I literally just matched up a whole bunch of my characters to their specific personality styles. Now when I'm writing a scene, I literally just flip to their specific personality style and use it to develop the scene and write the dialogue accoriding to their character style. This is perfect, thank you!!
If you've been writing with that level of attention to subtlety in your characters, that would make you a stud.
Which author?
I get the feeling you don't know how to actually use the word literally bro
Where can I read one of Jeff Kitchen's screenplays?
@@Sukaiba69 if they're writing a story, it would actually be quite literal
I worked with Jeff on an epic desert survival script and we used Enneagrams to help develope the characters. It was a very effective tool that enhanced the process.
Enneagram’s are excellent. A therapist friend recommended it to me. It’s so rich and you can easily use it to build arcs unlike Myers-Briggs. I wished I’d discovered it much earlier.
When I discovered Wisdom of the Enneagram and it totally changed my life. I didn't think someone or something could know more about me than me.
Oh hello fellow Enneagrammer. Wow, very nice, sophisticated explanation of a very difficult system to capture in words. Carl Jung said that's it's so hard to talk about the archetypes because they're so broad, but the enneagram makes it possible to capture the human personality in words, but only if you're well-studied in it can you articulate it's subtle concepts. Not many people do it well. When I first learned the Enneagram, I couldn't stop talking about it. Now 10 years later, I don't even know where to start, I don't even want to try, it's a lot of work, it's just so subtle, but once you see it, you can't unsee it, and if your life was hanging together by a thread, it may blow the bottom out of your life, but in a good way. It was absolutely the most important thing I have ever learned. When I was in a workshop hearing about it for the first time, I had a distinct line pop into my head: "I was born to learn this. This is what I've been waiting for for my life to begin". And it saved my life, and over the last decade has steadied it enormously. And actually it's made me bored with the "wisdom" that life has to offer. It's kind of a blessing and a curse because it spoils you-- you have seen the psychological model that captures humans in their complexity, basically meditation on steroids, so people don't surprise you anymore, but they also don't intimidate you anymore. The wisdom of the world is boring and trite, but it also doesn't lead you astray anymore. Relationships are less difficult because instead of treading water in an angry ocean, your feet are touching the ground, but it also kind of feels like you're in the kiddie pool. Kinda unsatisfying. Ok I'm not that enlightened, I'm just going through a bored phase. Still lots and lots to learn. Anyway, this was nurturing. Thanks.
I was introduced as "the thing i am about to tell you is gonna blow your mind" but as i read further you were explaining how it blew your mind. Also, your words are always contradicting each other. I don't mean it is false. Who can judge but the contrast between each word is so high that they cancel each. Are you satisfied or bored. Is it a curse or is wisdom. Which one is it. Is it meditative or aggressive like steroids. In the end that makes you telling nothing. I am writing this comment because i am annoyed but it still holds constructive criticism on your writing.
This is my favorite video because I’m autistic and my special interests are enneagrams and writing
I'm a real story telling nerd that loves this stuff. I could watch this all day
Enneagram and creativity are both the best and most perfect tools for character development
Such a brilliant tool. The thing I love about it the most is how you can use believable characteristics to sculpt character relationships that easily generate natural conflicts
Exactly. A lot of my stories are focused heavily on inter- and intrapersonal relationships, and I get to see through naturally flowing dialog how my characters are similar and different in their basic beliefs. Like justice vs mercy, (un)justifiable violence, etc. which continue through the story as a constant secondary conflict, hopefully having readers question their own thoughts on the situations and seeing the other side of the issues.
This dude just categorized my life so far into character types
Been using the Enneagram to write characters for a while. Great method.
The funny thing is, I see myself in so many of the enneagram types: I had a lot of the "helper" but was more seen as the "achiever" growing up, but then switched to full-blown "helper" when I found my calling as a young teenager, then after a traumatic experience briefly flopped over to the "enthusiast" ("So I'll just have fun since my 'dream' was just ripped away from me"), then launched into mature "achiever" again in college, segued into a super quirky "Individualist," slipped back into the "helper" after graduating and imagining I had found true love and meaningful (to both sides) connection, started a project as an outstanding "individualist" (always fighting the lazy irresponsible bent of the enthusiast after my early crash), took action during a brief, reactionary stint as the "challenger" after being betrayed as a naive "helper" by a guy and his family, then realised I was always mainly the "helper" in a perfect world. So, I guess the book character would go with the most prominent, deep-seated, original natural traits (I kept slipping back into the "helper" when I thought things were going reasonably well, if only in my silly imagination). Hmmm....
Josh Keefe is doing a series on characters in TV and film and their enneagram types! I highly recommend it
Thanks gor the recommendation!
HOLY COW!!!!! MIND IS BLOWN!!!! FILM COURAGE, SERIOUSLY, THANK YOU SO MUCH, AGAIN!!!! this channel constantly and consistently brings value to my life! I really appreciate all that you do!
Me and my husband love typing characters in movies. Such an amazing tool for character building and also for the viewers being able to identify with the characterts struggle/growth.
Isnt hakon a male name?
@@jhordyjimenez6283
i'm gay.
@@hakonmilan4039 my condolences.
How HELPFUL is this for new writers?!!!
Bravo! 👏🏻🤙🙏
SO unexpected to see this cross of topics- i never thought of it as a creative writing tool/inspiration for content- totally delightful!!! 🤯
Glad it was helpful!
It's interesting, but so confining. The fact that he said his character could fit most of the categories says it all. Most people aren't one thing, so why try to box a character in. Of course, you can start with any archetype or "enneagram" types...but eventually, your character should feel too complex for any of that, because now they are more like a real person that can't be boxed in.
Boxing only confining those to roles in society, this has nothing to do with that.
I agree with Blue Skye. Enneagram is a tool, nothing more.
I used to think so but then the more I observed, studied and put it into practice I discovered it was very expansive and gave me so much more empathy and insights into humans! Anyway it's just a tool - relax!!! - Stop being So ONE about it. lol
I dont think the enneagram boxes ppl in, it fluctuates depending on your health levels (there are like 9 stages to it), your wing (having some of the traits of other types) and how you behave like when u grow or desintegrate (then we tend to act like a different types' interior Motivations/feelings). And as far as I got it it picks up on your 'possible' fears, desires etc and explains your behaviours based on these driving powers (fear/flaw, desire), you can choose if these fears, desires resonate within you...
it's amazing how the craft of cinema, helps us ( if we were to use it for our personal growth) see our human complexity. The process of recreating human stories cast light on us and what we are. I often entertain the thought of creating an Android with perfect empathy, strength, etc. That process helps me realize personality traits I want to develop more in myself. let me go back to writing for my pleasure. I love TH-cam so much. The comments sections are always as valuable as the video, when the video is of good value. Really good stuff here.
The Enneagram is a bomb! but the information he mentioned after...is tremendous. we learned with this man a lot,is awesome . very very useful! love it!
The Enneagram? Honestly never heard of it but holy moly, such an invaluable tool. So grateful to Jeff Kitchen and Film Courage.
13 minutes to describe "Manic Pixie Dream Girl Trope" as if it were just discovered in the moment. Bless.
I like this idea because I strive to create characters who remind my readers of people they may have known or observed. This makes your writing more psychologically accurate and realistic. You can also take into account what a character's enneagram wing type would be to add another layer of complexity.
This seems to help a lot. BTW (this may seem goofy) but do I take both the mbti and the enneagram answering the questions in the wah my character would? Or do I just slap their mbti and enneagrams down? I don't like the 2nd option. My goal here is to try and find the right personality for my character but I have trouble expressing it, so I would really like to understand here.
Wow perfect timing. I'm taking Jeff's course right now and it's mind blowing. Hands down one of the best investments I've ever made.
Very cool. Great to see that working for you Anthony. Thanks for posting.
I'm doing preproduction on my first novel and the enneagram has been a great help in understanding my main characters.
You somehow knew exactly what I needed in this exact moment. Thank you guys so much!
I had a professor who told us “the difference between a maladaptive behavior/poor coping etc. and pervasive personality issues or disorders is awareness” For so long we (psychologists esp) talk about managing symptoms & all this criteria + the ways in which aspects of functioning must be affected by said criteria in certain ways, yet we fail to attend to the spectrum-ness & relative and contextual nature of our mental states. Enneagrams represent huge step towards understanding the internal & taking into account the effects/influence of external (including the external solely as an observer).
This was a cool video. I used to act a bit here and there.. didn’t think about personality types, but I remember the roles I went for, that I perceived as “fun” for me (which I needed to justify going to auditions because I was young and didn’t have external support with regards to any creative/artistic crafts, so I carried a fear of pursuing it whole-heartedly), but the roles I could ‘justify’ were all representative of almost Jungian archetypes and characteristics that I really disliked in people & would get triggered by.. it led to cool shadow work. Acting requires an unconditional compassion towards the character you’re playing so even if you hate them, you have to love them in a sense .. it really deepened my compassion. At our core, we are all each other at one point in time in one way or another. If that makes sense.
I really enjoyed this video, thank you!!
Idk who Derek and Skyler are, but there is an Indian movie called Yeh Jawaani Hai Dewaani and the two lead characters are EXACTLY how he describes, right down to the personality clashing/meshing together. Using enneagram is such a good tip, thanks!
And just like that I got something new to explore! Good thing I cleaned out my book shelf.
I wouldn't use this at the start of character creation process, but I can see that it could be useful to go back and check characters one has already written against this tool, just to see if they can be refined and deepened any further.
Otherwise it's a bit like writing music by starting from music theory. It may be accurate, but it's lifeless. Better to just start with a good tune and only then see how theory applies to it.
We can be many of these types and go in and out of them throughout the day. Vedic astrology gives a very complex understanding of different types of motivations, trajectories and natures of characters. Real people are way more complex, but this is a good place to start.
Another great interview thank you film courage, and another great tool. The enneagram has allowed me to build believable characters that are consistent with their actions and reactions to the plot.
How we percieve ourselves, and how we interact with the world creates a sense if self. That is beyond the enneagram or mbti. But it is an important tool because you have to form a baseline for your character so you can begin attributing character traits and show how he or she percieves themselves and interacts with the world around them. Their happiness or distress will be affected by those perceptions and interactions.
He pretty much described me. I’m gonna do it on myself for a bit and then work it on the characters for a series I’m working on.
Thomas Condon's book "The Enneagram Movie and Video Guide" is invaluable in this context.
For years, Psychiatry has tried to fit people into neat little boxes with well defined edges. Each year it fails, so every few years it comes up with a book more boxes. i.e. DSM-5. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. Real people don’t fit into boxes. Still with fictional characters you must start somewhere. And this is a good start.
Wow, I've been using Enneagram too😂 I try to type my characters after writing their character concept and fill in any gaps😋
Really enjoyed this great tour of the Enneagram!
This is an awesome tool! I'm all into the whole character profiling thing for my stories.
This will definitely be in my writing toolbox at some point.
Bought his book about 2 years ago. Game changer
I didn't even know enneagram's existed because I'm an amateur writer of fiction, but I always want to improve so this is neat to learn about it. I will use it now, especially since I took it to see more about myself. It was spot on for who I was, and showed me things I hadn't thought about.
Have you ever used the enneagram to help you write characters? How do you like this tool?
It's a good starting point as MBTI or RPG character generators. You still face the challenge of writing a character that feels consistent without being predictable.
Always and still using it as a french screenwriter ^^
My wife exposed ennegram to me years ago. Never thought to apply to my character building until I saw this. Makes perfect sense. I'm trying to use it now as I do my character pass of my rewrite. It is helping me with how characters think and how to frame their dialogue.
I use MBTI, but they’re definitely similar.
Never even heard of it before today. And I’m so glad I just did. Thank you Film Courage. This was incredibly timely 😃😊
Great video and great insight! Been using this for years now and I couldn't agree more. It is an excellent tool for writers in the creative process and also a way to "test" the consistency of your characters. See if the desicions they are making make sense, for example.
Another cool system to look at is the Colour system found in Magic the Gathering (roughly 24 possible combos rougly with subtypes within those as well)💭.
I've combined both enneagram and the colour philosophy system and it works great (I'd recommend watching "Dicetry" and "The Mana Source" for some explanation).
Incredibly helpful thank you guys for the millionth time lol
These are but facets to the character I am building in my life.
4:17
Enneagram in Thumbnail.
This is great if writing from a character's perspective.
But a good story is not limited by that.
World building is the bigger piece of good story writing.
And what you want to achieve through your story.
But it is very handy to profile people in certain ways.
This changes everything.
Great video. Interesting speaker, and really appreciate how he describes using the enneagram. I'm going to implement this into my own process. Thank you for covering this.
Thank you very much for what you do, it's helped me get a handle on my writing.
Great to hear! Keep learning and keep writing!
I love this. Been into the enneagram for quite some time. In terms of making a difference in my personal life.. ehh.. there's better tools. In terms of writing characters in fiction.. heeeeeeyyy!!
The Big Lebowski:
The Dude - type 9
Walter - type 8
Bunny Lebowski - type 7
Donny - type 6
The Nihilists - type 5
Maude Lebowski - type 4
Jackie Treehorn - type 3
Brandt the butler - type 2
Jeffrey Lebowski - type 1
Personality tests are great as starting points, but that's all they will ever be. If you go through your life thinking about ppl as their personality types then you will never truly get to know who they are. We are all every personality type to some extent, and under different circumstances.
Nice, definitely gonna look at deeper to this method.
I feel like this man is describing an idea that I know to be called a "finite state machine". They are very useful for many things, it turns out.
It isn’t. This is a wicked art and I wish you people had enough sense to care about your being and your bloodlines. AGAIN thou like tiny creatures you will prove why you don’t deserve to know anything. If you can’t respect yourself absent minded smh. Anyways the ART IS CALLED
“ In finte state machine”
It is the practice of STATE/PHASES in ma’gkc. It’s code of geniuses. It’s a game I wish you all comprehended you are not the players.
Games
Room
players
3 KIngs. YOU ALL ARE PICKING SIDES. Which is it? This room has games and players. This earth has lessons and teachers.
Tv shows
Movie
Epic-Sode
I learned MBTI & Socionics in my mid-teens, so I can't stop thinking about this aspect of character writing even if I wanted to :P
Whatttt I needed this thank you!!! 😍
I learnt something new today. Thanks.
When he says “Armand” he’s talking about Armand Dimele, who was the BEST!! He had a radio show on WABI in NYC up until he died. Highly recommend exploring the archives 🙏🏻
Very cool. I will probably read some books on this subject.
Types 2, 3, and 4 are the image types, 5, 6, and 7 are the intellectual/fear types, and 8, 9, and 1 are the anger types. I myself, am a 9 with an 8 and 1 wing.
18:23 this is probably the most important thing in this video
When you ask someone a direct question, and the first words out of his mouth are vapid marketing copy and buzz phrases instead of a direct answer, you've got yourself a scam artist
Fascinating. Are there any specific resources you’d recommend to get started with enneagrams?
It's always easier to deal with people when you can assign them to arbitarily defined pigeonholes.
That's so Enneagram 4 of u to say
One of the only things I got from getting into astrology was being able to recognize the zodiac signs when I see them (In theory of course. I don't just go on the street and know when/where people were born)
Physical appearance depends more on the Ascendant than the Sun sign. The Ascendant is your interface with the world and is how you appear to those who don't know you well.
From the very first Character that I ever actively profiled, instead of just pouring drivel from my head onto the page "as it came to me"... I started with a "Player's Handbook" and went through "Character Creation" from Alignment to Stat's, Class, Race, Skills and Powers, and so forth in D&D... AND among the most useful "Supplements" (also known as "Splat Books") for D&D was "The Big Book of Villains"... In those pages, I started asking the things about villains, like "How did he/she turn to evil?" and started thinking more about the fact that nobody just wakes up one morning and decides, "Hey, I think I'm going to take up being a TRULY sh*tty person."
Maybe some of us have a certain proclivity or pre-disposition that can add to our chances of being "an evil bastard"... BUT the mantra on TTRPG's is consistent if nothing else. "Everybody is the PROTAGONIST of their own novel."
We RP'ers also often say things like "If you live long enough, you'll eventually turn into the villain."
It's interesting, and there are SO MANY Character building and development systems and mechanics in TTRPG's it's just ridiculous. Every RPG seems to have a new and different way to create personalities, from GURPS with an open ended series of Disadvantages, Advantages, and then Stat's, and Skills... You don't even really get Templates to start to cookie cutter anything... unless there might be some in a Splat Book somewhere for guidance. In the Basic Set, at least, there's a few examples, but largely nothing to speak of for a framework... Then there's Call of Cthulu, where in the first edition, almost EVERYONE was a detective or investigator of some kind... with a backstory as to how they became a detective. I mean, you COULD technically build about anybody, but the majority middle of the curve were detectives as simple as that. Some games have a series of steps with questions and dice rolls to randomize how your Character is cultivated and starts out, and others have a short list of prompts and the format of a Character Sheet, a visual and relatively basic profiling form... at least for the numbers and figures that explain how the Character will function with the mechanics (read dice and situations) inside the Game itself...
When we Play, the RP is all the artistic stuff of "Acting" where you declare actions, make choices, and navigate the world of the Game (like Forgotten Realms or Greyhawke in D&D)... There are relative dictations from the Dice, where things are up to chance, but YOU (Player) still make the active choices for the Character... If he's going to draw a sword, you choose and declare it... If he's going to throw a fireball, then YOU have to declare and choose that... BUT the dice decide whether the sword hits and how much damage it does WHEN you've declared an attack on another Character or Monster... or how much damage and how big the Fireball is when it's thrown... They get the intangible part of WILL you accomplish this or that. You can choose and declare your Character is TRYING to do about anything. The stat's and numbers set his chance per roll of doing whatever you say you want to do.
In any case, things like the Enneagram are interesting. It's always fun to try to get a more complete or better intimate understanding of a Character (even that I create it) "under the hood" so to say, and this might be an interesting exercise if nothing else. ;o)
Ooo, "How did he/she turn to evil?" That's the million-dollar question here to craft dimensional, original villains. I think maybe each of them started as one of the types, then maybe deteriorated to the point of even switching types altogether, but then not learning from the trials but simply reacting to them if they were not raised with solid morals to keep them from hurting others even during horrible disappointments, for example, especially disappointments they imagine were the result of others' actions instead of taking responsibility for their own inexperience or laziness.
So, it is important to know that people do not change radically from one type to another suddenly. Over long periods of time, some wing may get more growth than others. If you have a 5w6 with a weak 8 wing, that is a radically different person than the 5w6 with a very strong 8 wing. That change alone might be a character arc for an entire story which took place over a lifetime. What is unlikely to happen is that a 5w6 would suddenly become a type 1...at least not without serious trauma and character defects.
Nothing compares to the big five.
The enneagram is even more complex than this. Each type also has a wing, which is s neighboring type that further informs how you present, what you value. It has three different instinctual variants, (sexual, self preservation, and I forget the other..) also, each type tends to integrate or disintegrate toward another type in it's triad based on your psychological health level. It goes deep
i watched other people's videos for a few hours, and the more interesting theories of it are the ones NOT advocating for it, as the ones that DO don't seem to explain much of anything.
i've come to the assumption the enneagram is a tool that people use to "worship" a particular value. which "god" of a value do you place on the highest pedestal?
this assumption is one that i take from one lady who argues against the enneagram's use for practicing christianity with several reasons, and a philosophy channel that used the word "worship" to highlight the message he was trying to explain.
but it made sense to me since the enneagram itself doesn't really have a logical structure. it's just a bunch of archetypes in very pretty formats.
do our personalities follow very pretty and geometrical formats like the enneagram suggests? NO. but it is very comforting to think that something so complex can be confined into this box.
so how do people interpret the enneagram? i was very confused. i did not see the logical through line of how people viewed this personality model. but the theory that people are using this enneagram to find which value that they identify with the most, and then they can choose to "worship" it and its subsequent values with its "arrows" and "wings" made more sense to me.
people aren't following this because it makes sense. they follow the enneagram... because it makes them feel GOOD. it validates them.
and... as much as i can appreciate the value that THEY extract from this... eh, whatever. i extract value from stories and they're all made up too.
anyways. enneagram. TLDR: IT'S A PAGAN SYMBOL FOR WHICH GOD YOU PREFER TO WORSHIP, IF YOU WANT AN EASY WAY TO UNDERSTAND BOTH IT AND THE PEOPLE WHO FOLLOW IT.
edit: it's not really a pagan symbol. i don't know where it came from. the philosophy video said that two latin american academics stole it from a russian guy (i forget his profession), who MAY have stole the general symbol from a middle eastern religion. i have no idea if the actual symbol is "pagan" or not.
i was just using it to illustrate how each number correlates to a "god" or value. kind of like the greek and roman gods, and how they all represented something.
Hey Karen from Film Courage. Have you gotten started in making this indie film with Derek and Skylar a reality? It seems so intriguing from what's discussed here.
What's the best site to determine ennegram?
5 mins in and this smacks of an infomercial, HARRRD
Without taking the test I'm 1,2,4,5,6,8,9
I guess 7 also by this guy's definition.. but not an enthusiastic 7...
Marvel writers should take notes on this lesson
"Ancient wisdom" usually becomes outdated speculation.
Archetypes are for storytelling, no longer our most useful way for understanding actual unique human beings.
Fine to use this or whatever for inspiring fictional character development.
But do reserve some skepticism if employing pseudo-psychology systems like this one to judge and label real live people.
Weird I don't see a connection from the arrows of numbers 3,6,9 those are a separate triangle the rest seem to bounce back and forth repeatedly.
It was an exciting discovery for me BUT let me just give you an advice about the video : it would've been better with the enneagram in the background when Maestro Kitchen speaks. See ?...
I can see how an enneagram could help develop characters for stories, but when I go through the personality descriptions there were like 3 or 4 that would fit my own.
Can I use enneagram for writing a biography book ?
9 out of 9 for this video :)
I need more characters with my personality type
I've got Jeff as a 5w6.
Nothing useful came out if this video. Thanks pro!!
Wow wise words... I'm so touched😂 did you recently learn that? Lol.
Ok so usually commenting is a cheap way of communicating, but since you were rude and judgmental as heck, ima proves you're wrong, with your own hands.
Kiddo! List aaall the useful things you learned from this crap. You'd be surprised lmao.
You see, I'm not a negative person unlike you! (since you judged aaaand kindly told someone to shut up, which isn't a sophisticated thing to do if you're aware of your words, genius)
I just don't buy bs.
If you're like most ppl and nod to every crap you see, well, good luck with that!
Isn't none of my business if you like stupidity lmao
Piece out✌️
(write your damn list before judging ppl next time)
@@BelamarEutravos You're wrong. @Sahel is right if he expresses negativity as others who may be misled by the bs Jeff is spouting may then see the negative comment and realise that yes in fact this is just bs to further "mystify" the process.
You show off and say "leave it to the pros". In my view, a professional is someone who's been paid and sold at least one successful screenplay that became a movie in this business. What have you done to be so high and mighty? Please share your "pro" credentials.
I also checked Jeff Kitchen on IMDb he has ONE "Thanks" credit for some unknown film!!! Unbelievable, so this guy is a "pro"? So listen, best to get off your high horse and close your mouth.
Do U agree that perhaps the ennyagram ascribes too much to nurture at the expense of nature? That is, the two childhood wounds from the trigger incident, are interpreted according to ones apriora genetic tendenceys. Two individuals, different from birth, suffer different wounds and wind up as different numbers.
A blend of ancient wisdom, eh? I've been using Astrology to create characters for 20 years already. So what do you want 9 types (Enneagram), 12 types (Astrology), or 16 types (Myers-Briggs). I'd like to know who's in charge of creating or perhaps "repackaging" or Astrology (which has more than the historical record (unknowable millennia) of continuous development by human interlocutors. And while we're at it, lets check in with Jung. Those who dismiss Astrology out of hand, have NEVER looked at it in any depth.
Hi, I scored a 98 on 3, 97 on 3 and 89 on 7. I cant seem to find any information that talks about being a 3, 8, or 3,8, and 7. Can you help? I have a steady positive mood, full of energy, uplifting, caring, direct, assertive, someone who cares about goals and will strive to lengths to achieve them. I personally don't have any set goals so I haven't been working as hard as I know I can. I'm in tune with my emotions and I can articulate what I'm feeling. I'm generally the life of a party and some people consider me to be a party animal. I'm not sure if this helps but I am a ENFP-A and ENFJ-A. The first time was a enfp-a and around a year later my results showed that u was a enfj-a.
I've been using mbti types to write my book
Evey actor includes their enneagram profile type with their headshot to match them to the right character. lol
I also like the DISC & KOLBE plus a few other tools to get an even more distinct profile.
"While Enneagram teachings have attained some degree of popularity, they have also received criticism including accusations of being pseudoscience, subject to interpretation and difficult to test or validate scientifically, 'an assessment method of no demonstrated reliability or validity'. In 2011 the scientific skeptic Robert Todd Carroll included the Enneagram in a list of pseudoscientific theories that 'can't be tested because they are so vague and malleable that anything relevant can be shoehorned to fit the theory'.
A 2020 review of Enneagram empirical work found mixed results for the model's reliability and validity. The study noted that the ipsative version of the Riso-Hudson Enneagram Type Indicator (scores on one dimension decrease scores on another dimension) had troubles with validity, whereas the non-ipsative version of the test has been found to have better internal consistency and test-retest reliability. Furthermore, it was found that 87% of individuals were able to accurately predict their Enneagram type (before taking the test) by being read descriptions of each type.' "
The enneagram was re discovered by George Gurdjieff .....a mystic of Armenian and Greek heritage.....He was the founder of the 4th way.......this talk would have been hear say from one of the 4th way pupils through many people to you tube.
You guys gotta add some B roll