Every Great Story Has A Main Character That Goes Through 4 Archetypes - Jeffrey Alan Schechter
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.ย. 2022
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After moving to Los Angeles, Jeffrey Alan Schechter quickly established himself as a versatile writer, able to work in all genres from action films to family comedies, from pre-school to adult drama, from live action to animation. His writing has earned him a Gemini Award as well as nominations for two Emmy awards, a Writers Guild of America award, a Writer’s Guild of Canada award, and a BAFTA award.
Over the years Jeff has worked with dozens of studios and networks including Warner Bros, Universal Pictures, ABC, NBC, The Discovery Channel, Nickelodeon, The Hallmark Channel, the BBC, VH1 Films, RHI, and The Walt Disney Company.
Jeff is the author of a book on story structure titled My Story Can Beat Up Your Story! and is a noted speaker and lecturer on screenwriting. Jeff is the founder/creator of WritersRoom Pro software, a digital writers’ room for secure, remote creativity and collaboration.
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Synopsis:
4 archetypes that he says every good story character goes through: orphan, wanderer, warrior, martyr.
4 questions the "Disney exec" told him the story needs to answer: Who is the main character? What are they trying to accomplish? Who is trying to stop them? What happens if they fail?
Combine these to get Act 1 telling you who your character is, an orphan (in some sense). Act 2 they are a wanderer as they try to get what they want. Act 3 someone/something is trying to stop them and so they become a warrior to fight back for what they want. Act 4 they become a martyr as they face the possibility of failure.
thank you. could've been a minute long video that was more helpful
@@jeffgover568Oy vey 😂
I realize that the main character in my last novel changes exactly as described in this video
Let me make it more easier:
He basically described how characters arc works:
Imagine a ladder: -2 -1 0 1 2 3 4 5
(1isolation), (2 connection). All most all movies are about a character on level 1 going to level 2.
Or fall from level 3 (family) to level 1 and try to get back to level 2 at least. The Joker for example starts like this. Level 3 to level 1, but goes down to 0 (animal) and -1 (psychopath).
or the Growth arc from 1 to 2 to 3 and even 4 if they sacrifice themselves for the greater good.
Walter White (as she mentions) - Family level 3 - down to level 2 (Jesse), down to level 1. And then tries to constantly regain level 2 and 3 until last season. He doesn't get back to 3.
-2 is your demonic spirits/poltergeists. (characters in this realm -1 and -2 are generally flat, they cannot improve or grow).
and level 4 is martyr and 5 is evangelic angles/heavenly spirits. (Character won't often reach 5 - because 4 kills them. Christ however is a good example of level 5)
I have never seen this model before. Very interesting
@@burningmagyk4986 Yeah I learned if from a lady on one of those screenwriting seminars on CD, haha. This was like 10 years ago, and that recording was probably done 20 years ago. Lost knowledge.
Thanks for posting this. Ive never done a script before but im outlining an idea I really like, and im looking forward to seeing what a disaster my 1st attempt is! Just maybe your post may help me avoid this. Its all totally new info for me. Cheers.
@@duncanread587 yeah knowledge from the 90s I try to pass on. A lady explained this on a dvd lol. Quite helpful.
when are you coming out with the book?
In my Improv class they always say that your first tool is "YES AND", because you're trying to play off your scene partner, and keep it going, so you don't shut down their tangent. You go with it. Listening to this interview I find EXCEPT WHEN equally beautiful as a tool to add complexity to a character.
I get this idea. But how many "YES AND" make your story interesting and not a disaster.
I think YES AND and EXCEPT WHEN can be used well together. I mean, thinking about the most interesting conversations between the co-protagonists in my novel, YES AND happens, like you said, to hold the tangent while EXCEPT WHEN can push one character to shift track a bit and bring in a bit of disagreement and conflict between the two characters, which the second character can either boost or at least attempt to douse depending on their EXCEPT WHEN, especially an EXCEPT WHEN for a specific character that isn't offered to another character for a certain reason. So, I see where you're going with that. It can get really interesting when multiple characters are interacting with each other.
True. If you say no.... the story ends.
YES AND
I believe Jim Hull who has also worked for Disney for a time also uses a variation of this when sorting out the story's central conflict. Something like "everyone needs _____ except when _____"
As of this date she is still alive and 78 years old!
Shout-out to Carol then!
Now she's probably passed on. It's been weeks...
Now age 79!
@@HORNGEN4 Carol is still living.
Fair play to her.
I was pretty shocked to hear that a Disney exec pointed that out to him. Probably a former Disney exec at this point. Modern Disney content doesn't consider those questions.
Seems like this story of his was from a long time ago, dince he doesn't even remember what story he was pitching
I am pretty sure that exec prod was killed off, so they could shove this shitty agenda into their movies.
I think you are right... must have been a former exec, cause back than disney really had story and magic. Two things that made it great. Now it has neither of these two things.
Right right brother
Believe it or not, Disney used to tell great stories. I often wonder what Walt would make of his modern namesake because it bears virtually zero relation to his vision. Fantasia has become Brave New World.
You're being silly, all modern Disney movies follow this recipe to a T. it's formulaic and homogenous.
This is kind of crazy. I've been writing a book over the last year and my main character goes from a kind of orphan to a wanderer to a warrior to a sort of martyr by the end without me planning it that way.
Same. I was thinking about the first novel I've been writing and editing, and the same thing happens. It's unreal. lol
Ditto. I guess we can relax a bit about our plots.
Because the Sun is orphaned in the winter solstice. It wonders and enjoys the first fruits of spring. In summer it is strong and almighty warrior. Then it experiences the fall and heads to a tomb (autumn).
It's the collective unconscious bro. Check out the writer's journey and the hero with 1,000 faces.
My main character is literally orphaned in the first act of the pilot I’m working on. His act two as a wanderer shows him chasing leads years after the tragedy. In act three, he is on full warrior mode, fighting the the demons that took his folks out. Because it’s a 3AS, I’m leaving there but I’m sure there’s room to layer in some intricate complexities.
Read KING, WARRIOR, MAGICIAN, LOVER which is a similar Jungian Archetype book about male psychology.
Pearson is good, too.
We underestimate how important that last one is -- What will happen if they don't get it?
That's basically the reason why the character is doing any of the stuff theyre doing in the story -- to avoid that negative outcome. rather than pursue good for the sake of good itself.
Looking at the early Disney animated features, the four archtypes may require a bit of trimming in Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, Bambi, Pinocchio and Dumbo. Pinocchio's journey from orphan to wanderer through warrior and martyr fits the mold. Bambi becomes an orphan, then a wanderer, fights for his mate and his martyrdom is implied when Bambi replaces the Great Prince of the Forest--it's an eternal cycle.
There are many ways of expressing this concept. It's all the same really, just from different points of view. For example the character has a "false belief" or a "fatal flaw", and through the adventure that is challenged and then the character either overcomes that limitation or succumbs to it. Or the character is in the "ordinary world" at the beginning, and then is thrust into a new, different world, which might be the same in appearance but is wildly different for the character internally because their beliefs have been shattered, or their life is at risk, or a loved one is in danger, whatever. The summary would be, your character is in their normal routine (usually the beginning, gives us time to connect emotionally and care about the rest) until something abnormal happens that forces them to go on a journey through strange lands, literal or metaphorical. Now they must fight their demons and/or external demons, and they either win and save the day, get the girl/guy, etc. or lose and become a martyr, because at least they fought. Even more succint --there was no conflict before, but there is conflict now, perilous conflict which the character might not survive, but they are a hero because they try. The rest is variable, but this is constant, you won't find a story with no conflict. Even "shows about nothing" like Seinfeld.
I think all characters since Greek mythology have “a lie that they believe about themselves or the world.” The lie is usually informed by the character’s emotional wound.
Jon Snow for instance, is a bastard. This is both the lie that he believes and his emotional wound. Dany believes that she’s the heir, a lie sprung from her emotional wound, the incomplete massacre of her family.
We can go as far back as Shakespeare or even the Iliad to find the same pattern of wounds and lies. And if the character heeds vital information about the lie, or doesn’t, will lead to either a positive or negative character arc, which will in turn, for grand narratives at least, affect the complexion of the story world.
In the case of thrones, Jon has a negative arc, as does Dany, and subsequently king’s landing as it burns.
The 4 central questions. What a lesson! Thank you so much for this educational content.
Glad it was helpful!
But it's true. It's ancient greed drama storytelling. A 3 act story but all of them need your character to want something to which the audience can relate to, go in search for it, the antagonit who offers resisistance and the and getting it or not, but th audience must feel that there are things at stake. Basically losing more than the character got when starting his journey.
Typical but great and up until now working Storytelling.
For me I love this guy. I bought Contour app for iOS years ago and just learned that it was Jeffrey' system used in that writing app. I was able to write a full length screenplay using that iOS app. I just recently bought his book - thanks to Film Courage. It amazes me how people on the comment section complain for information they didn't pay for.
This video gave me the input I needed right now. Thank you 🙏🏼
Goal, make as many characters run through the character development stages as possible
True as long as you stop at your main characters, I guess. Better to do a deep exploration of 2-5 characters than to go for numbers.
Whoa... this is SUCH a powerful way of thinking about complex characters and their motivations! Thanks for sharing! I certainly have a LOT to think about now all of a sudden!! :D
Good writers are good writers. Crappy writers are crappy writers.
@@user-yb8vr2ip2t Haha! What prompted the tautology?
I did NaNoWriMo for a decade and we used to play a game called 20-word synopsis. Most people had a lot of difficulty doing it. I almost never did because used my own 4 questions, answering them in 5 words or less. They were almost exactly like the ones he mentions.
I also appreciate that he recognizes the 4 act structure is superior to the 3 act structure. I do feel, however, that the Jungian archetypes are a little superficial and that the 4 types mentioned can't cover every character arc--particularly steadfast characters who have come to teach a lesson rather than learn a lesson.
Give me more tips brother!
Absolutely love this content
I applied this to one of my favorite movies, Close Encounters, and it fits
whoops...seems she is alive Carol S. Pearson
Born 21 March 1944 (age 78)
Chicago but I'm going to get her book. I read the Hero's Journey and this seems like a good compliment. She can thank you for that :)
Thank you so much!
Love the interview, thanks for sharing 👍
First, thank you for this info, JAS. I was really worried that my main character cannot be pinned to one archetype, and that would seem to be weak storytelling. However, your insights really reflect what is going on already with my tale.
Also, it's odd that the term Jungian isn't is pronounced, "YOONG-ee-un" for Carl Jung's paradigm. His name isn't pronounced, "young," but YUNG-ee-un is somehow the correct, accepted pronunciation. For each Illuminati, there must be an Ignorati. I fear I'm the latter more often than former. Words are weird.
Good interview, Film Courage. My Story Can Beat Up Your Story! is a great book title. I will check it out, JAS.
I guess I subsumed this ideal, without realizing it. I'm close to finishing a war novel ( my first ) in which the central character is an effective orphan, then becomes an aimless wanderer, is offered redemption as a warrior and is tragically left as a living martyr, who must face many future years in which to regret his failed mission. It's funny how story archetype -literate you can be without realizing it.
Holy shit… this absolutely helped me figure out my ending!
Nice!
Damn! I'm not alone in this here, but I finally decided to start writing in earnest today, and in the story, the main character, you've guessed it; orphan - yes, more or less, Wanderer 100% yes, Warrior - Hell yeah, Martyr - yes, pretty much. And I didn't even start with the main character when I got the ideas!
No purpose> searching for purpose> fighting for that purpose> dying for that purpose
Even more granular. Thanks, Sarah!
When he was talking about the movie his friend Gill Evans watched, all I could think of was "Book of Eli" with Denzel Washington.
read some *Joseph Campbell* try his best works *The Power Of Myth* and *The Hero With A Thousand Faces* to truly understand the Hero's Journey
the story of Luke Skywalker perfectly encompasses the concept considering Lucas got some great advice from Campbell on how to tell this story. ( just look at a early draft of star wars with Luke Starkiller)🙀
Very useful. All the tips given can help to build a great story
This guy is brilliant!
Really?🤨
Main points:
Main character?
What they trying to accomplish?
Who’s trying to stop them?
What happens if they fail?
(Eg
Main character?
Orphan
What they trying to accomplish?
Wanderer
Who’s trying to stop them?
Warrior
What happens if they fail?
Martyr)
Sorry.. a warrior is trying to stop a wanderer? Confused there.. i thought wanderer became warrior and fights for a cause and become a martyr
@@MnM008 Yeah you're right. They were just saying that the "main character" is the orphan archetype, the "what they're trying to accomplish" is the wanderer archetype, the "who's trying to stop them" leads to the warrior archetype, then "what happens if they fail" is the martyr archetype.
Awesome video!
The classic Hero 😊
every story is not the same. this is built off of the idea of "the monomyth", which says that every story follows the exact same path, which just is absolutely false.
But I guess "a lot of stories that follow the monomyth storyline tend to have one or two main characters that go through about four or so archetypes" is a less catchy title
Totally agree. When you pull back far enough and generalize things to the nth degree, you invariably end up with this kind of theory of writing.
When you can call a character an orphan because they have any sense of abandonment, either by losing their parents, or being shunned from their village, or having a friend leave them behind, you end up with a universalizeable attribute that can and does apply to ALL well written characters. This is because everyone feels abandoned at some point in their lives. That doesn't mean that moving through that and ending up a warrior who saves the day is the only way to tell a story.
For example, Grave of the Fireflies is an incredible movie that is almost impossible for me to watch anymore because of how human the story is. However there is no great battle to be fought, there is no hero, no villain, just a story about two kids caught in a tragedy of life known as war. It's only if you really squint that you can try to force fit the characters into these archetypes, except the obvious orphaned one, in a literal sense from early on.
True. Some stories follow certain paths/structures. Many others don't. I forget the name of the person who said all stories follows his particular storymap and the 4 act structure. So I used it as I watched many films. Well did some follow it exactly? Yes. But many did not. Every story is different and I'm glad. Because not only do I not want every film predictable; I don't want to write every screenplay that's predictable
What is your preferred character archetype to watch and write?
The hero's journey.
Definitely the heroes journey and the story of the villain.
Most of my protagonists start out as orphans. I think that's an easy way to build audience empathy & engagement.
Walter White feels like an orphan who had been disinherited form the fruits of his genius. He is justified to himself 1) as claiming what is his and 2) as martyring himself for his son.
@@chasehedges6775 every great story and hero's journey is made by an outstanding antagonist!🤘🤘
This is so true.
4:30 it's where it starts
Great video 👍🏿
Thanks for watching Robert!
Beautiful ****
What is that index card program in the background?
Really nice👍
In The 100 series, Octavia Blake went from being The Girl Under The Floor (orphan), To being Sky Girl (wanderer), next Sky Reaper (warrior), and finally BloodReina (martyr) before finally being redeemed.
The 100 started out so well turned into so different stories so i dropped
He sure does talk.
what program is on the screen in the background?
It’s pronounced “Yoongian”, not “youngian”.
choose your own hogwarts house... similar to the enneagram... still a powerful tool to deal with your own psychology...
what could you be in this story? since all characters are some extension of you as well as your perception of others...
... still good for chewing on.
It’s life but most people never think about it or anything really and they probably don’t need to. Maybe they want the good guy too win but not necessarily themselves (the main character) just the good/regular people in the story they don’t need to know all the details/why they’re here except to just live and have a life what ever that may be that shouldn’t be interrupted. what happened to those characters on the sideline that are seeing everything but not effected by it like the main character intended so they don’t have to feel the way he does or know what he has to know and then he feels something worth feeling a since of accomplishment to the point it’s not even about him anymore 🤣 maybe he just wanted something simple like a sandwich or just some food or anything that would’ve otherwise been simple for him to have but the world/people around him are constantly in danger or just absent minded/not paying attention nikda like Clark Kent,a Jacky Chan character or Bret Maverick (1994 or 95) having to deal with all this stuff trying to accomplish this one simple thing if he could just get there on time and none of them notice all the amazing stuff he’s able to pulling off for them (obstacles) so he can have this one damn simple thing! Because everybody’s in their own blissful existence but him.
🤣 is there a movie/story where he finally snaps and doesn’t care about having or being apart of anything anymore watching everybody/not intervening and that’s how it ends with him with a smile on his face and says…well I guess it is what it is (The End) while hearing some kind of Chaotic crash followed by a scream maybe some sirens and a dog barking. He needs a break until the next episode. It’s crazy but everybody is living some kinda story they’re just not paying attention to the world around them. There needs to be a cop movie kind of like cuffs but he doesn’t talk to the camera maybe he’s a black guy cool but not a stereotype, down to earth unlike the world around him and he’s pro-himp even though he’s a cop (on the down low) and he wants to have fun too but Society/his community has gotten so out of hand he’s not able to have a good time! He’s even tired of anything Racial he’s tired of all of it he just wants to go fishing and smoke a fat doobie maybe that’s all he wants to chill out and let the world turn on the bank or little rickety boat on a muddy pond with his buddy that’s as comical as he is (Calamity) (comedy/action).
But movies look deferent now it’s not like it used to be. There’s a magic movies used to have. The way they were filmed, the music, the acting, the bad guys were the bad guys and all the good guys had to rely on was common since but there’s a comical irony that common since isn’t that common when you need it to be LOL
@1:00 Carol Pearson is alive, and is 79 years old.
Fine mind, ageing well. "On yer, mate."
I found this really interesting and super useful, but I'm confused… Why did he say that there were only six archetypes? Aren't there like 12 or something…?
I think today the four archetypes are a limited way of thinking. When these where the standard literature was developing.with constant repetition, they became “ the standard.” Today, authors are mixing and matching or breaking the stereotypes. Hero’s, especially, can be out of the norm, villains are not redeemable and people will accept themas more real. The problem in film and literature today is when they follow the formula to be safe. We need to inject perilous hero’s, faulty to the where they don’t follow what we have seen for centuries. And maybe the character remains unresolved and conflicted in the end. Counter to the standard.- “All’s well that ends well scenario.” Or the happy ending. Life doesn’t end happily most often. We are much too complicated a species
What I see today is that many fans experience character confusion when they get angry about a main character they don't like. They don't relate to the hero so they believe the film isn't good. Yet the film makes a billion dollars because other types of people related deeply to the character.
Box office success has very little to do with character relatability, and I don't think it has much to do with "character confusion". You can have the most shallow and pedantic piece of drek film make bank because it can attract people with action and explosions and boobs, see pretty much anything related to Michael Bay.
That or you can have movies that appear to be deep and interesting, but even a small amount of examination reveals that they abused intrigue and never actually provide a payoff because they generated so many plot holes in their "mystery box" that there is no coherent way to tie it all back together, so they don't even make the attempt and just drop entire plotlines as if they never existed, see pretty much anything related to Jar Jar Abrams.
Point being there are many ways to make a movie successful, but that doesn't make it good, or have well developed characters.
@@femsplainer Your points are valid. However, if making movies that are wildly successful many, many more people would just do that. They can’t because it is incredibly hard to make economically successful movies. The debate between great cinematic art and just successful cinematic entertainment is what I believe you are addressing here. Explosions and boobs may not be great art but they may be a part of an economically successful film. Is that low brow? Probably, but most folks aren’t running out to the theaters to see a remake of Citizen Kane. My point is simply this: people will not enjoy a film when they do not like or relate in some way to the main character. They don’t get the character’s motivations or the characters life experience. Most film goers are not film critics. They couldn’t care less about plot holes,they aren’t writing screenplays when they leave the movie theater. They are just people out on dates or at a weekend family outing. People want to be entertained. Art criticism is great for film geeks and college students, but film studios can’t make their money back from those two groups of people alone.
So, in Amazon´s review of the book he is talking about (The Hero Within, by Carol S. Pearson, who is alive an well, by the way) they say the six archetypes are the Innocent, the Orphan, the Wanderer, the Warrior, the Altruist, and the Magician. He keeps talking about a "the Martyr"... which one is he? It´s an interesting video but, boy, this guy is definitely a "wanderer" and never seems to get to the point.
Cool
0:29 This made me jump.
12:44 Makes "Unforgiven" sound kind of like "John Wick"
Except John wasn't rusty
True, but he wasn't as far into retirement.
As of 9/4/23, Carol is alive and 79 for anyone interested
Damn, basicly netflix' Edgerunners.
Carol Pearson is very much alive.
Olivier Twist?
The hero cycle, if you are a writer. Or the hero with a thousand faces, if you are a Campbell follower. Or the patterns sometimes seen in religion because it is hardwired into us. Don't be so fast to reject everything old before you see the value in it.
this is true whether you like it or not.
Do you also say, "Frohdrick Frahnkensteen"?
No matter the creative field, its always heavily populated by people offering up some bag of tricks they insist will help make you appear talented. Whatever.
Seems like they stopped teching this in screen writing class at some point lol
I wanna be like Harry
From Harry & the Hendersons
Any great pop culture character we can pull references from? I could only think of the Bruce Wayne from Nolan's batman
That is definitely the most blunt example. Hard to not get stuck on that with Batman right next to his head.
The archetypes are so broad that you can force fit any characters into them at any stage of their story. For example, "the Orphan" would seem to be the obvious first stage for Bruce Wayne, right?
Well what about "the Innocent"? I think that pretty well describes him in the first Act of his origins, does it not, he is just an innocent boy after all, and depending on which rendition you go with, Bruce can sometimes be the cause of his parents death because got scared by the bats in the play, or because he wanted to take a shortcut through an alley, ultimately leading to the mugging and his parents death.
Or how about "the Wanderer"? Every little boy seeks a bit of independence and him wanting to go down the alley was his independent decision. See the overlap with the Innocent? That's not an accident.
You can apply these same elements to Batman's mutant counterpart Spiderman as well. For him you could trace his hero story starting at Wanderer or Warrior because he gets his powers first before he has a reason to use it. It's only by forcing the "actual" story to start after Uncle Ben's death that you can follow this guys argument that all modern stories start with "the Orphan".
@@HORNGEN4 I did not notice that hahahaha had to take a second look 🤣
Every Great Story Has A Main Character That Goes Through 4 Archetypes - Jeffrey Alan Schechter
But that wouldn't apply to Rom-Coms? Right?
Which type of movie do you guys like the most...
Action
Thriller
Comady
Romance
Tragedy
Horror
Social drama
Pls comment...👇
It's spelled "comedy", and what's social drama? I think it's just called drama.
4:10
army of monkeys = Luffy, Dragon and Garp fighting on the same side against Imu!
I feel this is just a fancy way of saying your character changes through the film.
More than that, it's saying that all characters change in essentially the same way, which is a total farce. Just because modern storytelling in the West has become formulaic because of profit incentives, that doesn't make the monomyth a reality.
One need only look to stories like 12 Angry Men to see that.
Similarly, murder mysteries, including Scooby Doo, don't really follow these archetypes very well, because their purpose is often counter to the heroes journey.
Further, a lot of Lovecraftian tales throw the entire concept on its head, often ending with a total sense of helplessness and understanding that nothing the "hero" of the story did actually mattered in the end.
Not adhering to the Jungian archetypes makes them bad stories, quite the contrary. There's a reason those stories are so well received. Because there actually are other ways to tell stories.
Carol S. Pearson is still alive... awkward
And those 4 archetypes are Summer, Fall, Winter, and Spring depending on the order of the story. It all boils down to the Sun. Light of the world. Sun of god and Sun of man. All praise to JeSeus (Jupiter+Seus=Jesus).
Those aren’t archetypes
Took him 5 minutes to get to one point. This guy might be great but he is not a teacher; I don't care who Gilbert so and so is
Get to the point
He needs to learn how to properly pronounce the word “archetype”…
This guy is a professional writer? He doesn't sound like he understands any of this. So much of what he said is foolish.
This is why art is so bad these days.
Why does it matter if she’s possibly dead?! Why mention this right up from?! Very irritating, distractive, irrelevantly egotistical statement 😠
so, are you gonna answer the question or ramble on for 5 minutes?
Total BS
It seems Carol S. Pearson is well and alive... nice one there🤭 0:49
You need to update this to 2024 standards - every great story has a queer non-binary or trans character preferably of non white background