This is nonsense. Jane was born somehow and gave birth to a baby and she named her jane. Then the bartender snatches baby jane and leaves it the past. Then that jane has to grow up and become a new jane but not her mother who was born with both male and female reproductive systems.
@suraj rawat Except that there is nothing to indicate that and no reason or motivation given for why Robertson would do that. In fact, they mention a few times that they want to limit the number of jumps they make. You're writing your own fan fiction.
@clarissa35f LOL "Dude, if time travel existed could you go back in time and be your own parent?" is stereotypical stoner "intelligence". That is not genius.
@Snehil Shrey i know i just find your comment hilarious cause i barley get the movie either. Buuuut what he was talking abt was in the first scene when John got his face fixed up bc of the fire, He said to the doctor "my mother wouldn't recognize me". That time he was gonna meet up with his younger self, which is his mother, which is also him bc he gave birth to himself- im rambling 😂😂 but hope you get it
I just watched this movie for the first time and whilst reading the comments I read a comment left by myself 4 years ago about the first time I watched this movie ! I’m freaking out
@clarissa35f what i feel is barkeep never knew he(lets call him j1) was going to become bomber and shoots bomber(lets call him j0)...by which he unknowingly plants seed for him becoming bomber himself...and the whole things happens again..jane is born again converts to barkeep(lets call him j2)..encounters fizzle bomber(j1) and shoots j1 believing he never becomes bomber..and cycle goes on..believing he will never become bomber is what keeps loop running..just like jane never knew why john left her till she herself becomes john..same is with barkeep and fizzle bomber.. saying barkeep knew he will become bomber is i feel incorrect..correct me if iam wrong
@clarissa35f i have been thinking abt the killing himself part and agree that is impossible becoz of a single timeline(thanks to you❤)...but still think he didnt know he was going to become fizzle bomber..just like jane didn't know abt why john left till she had to leave jane alone on the bench..i feel i need to take this to reddit to get some answers😂..this time traveling shit is really fascinating and made me very curious and obsessed abt it🔥...btw thank u soo much for clearing the killing himself part..i couldnt find this theory of him killing himself being discussed on reddit or st..so thanks again❤
@clarissa35f This is genuinely convincing but..it is absolutely true john knows more then jane...barkeep knows more then john ....BUT it is also not incorrect that fizzle bomber knows more then barkeep..barkeep knows atleast 1 less than what bomber knows, that is what i feel.. Remember the scene how barkeep makes illegal jump after he sees john reunite with 1963 jane and knowing the fact john is going to fall in love with jane again and get her preg this was the moment he jumped to that face burn incident to try and kill bomber knowing even after the falling in love part is inevitable he still tried...he thought of trying to change what has happened...and this makes me think while shooting bomber he thought of giving it another chance and thought he wont become bomber but thanks to violin that was supposed to decommission (maybe robertson did this intentionally) didnt and he became bomber...also remember each character experiences every moment only once irrespective of the no. Of generations from baby jane to fizzle bomber in each generation...like jane only meets john once barkeep only steals jane once...he only shoots bomber once irrespective of knowing what he had done previously which was obvious killing bomber.. Also the way barkeep confidently says "I will never become you" and fizzle bomber continuously says "if u kill me u become me lets team up" (becoz when he was barkeep he killed bomber and became when he is now) but barkeep is stubborn saying "i will never become you" even if he knows he will become fizzle bomber he still gives it a try and finally decides to shoot bomber and thinks this time he will make it right but continues to jump looses his mind(just like iam thinking abt all this) and finally becomes bomber...and this is how again jane becomes john then becomes barkeep and finally fizzle bomber...the whole thing repeats again and again and continues indefinitely.. ANYWAYS..TBH for last couple of days since i watched this movie..it literally made me crazy as i go in depths of it..so i feel some things are just meant to be left as they are and its ok to not understand everything...there are a lot of things going on in my head regarding time travel..and i feel discussions like these are best done when 2 people discussing are sitting together wid a whiteboard which is not possible here...but i really appreciate your explanations...and thank u soo much for those book recommendations i will surely start with one once my head is stable..hope have a good day..❤️
I just watched this again and it was as thrilling as ever. The sublte hints when Barkeep is singing "I'm my own grandpa" are a nice touch. Thanks for the anlaysis.
In starting when he has his face damaged, he says i guess not even my mother would recognise me!! Because he was his own mother from past😂 so she couldn't recognise the bartender as herself
There's a pretty cool line of dialogue when John is explaining to to the barkeep (future John) that the description of the man who stole her baby was a man with face "like yours or mine," Well that was more accurate than we knew at the time lol
or when he scoffed at the "son of a bitch" remark.... i picked it up right at that point what it was actually meant to be... i was already suspicious that's what it was from earlier scenes (with the scars talking to the doctor) and that sealed it for me
So basically, he fell in love with herself and gave birth to herself and he took herself back in time so she can grow up and meet himself after being brought back in time by himself to take her own viginity, Simple🙄
**EXPLAINED** (super easy to understand) *1* John burns his face disarming a bomb. *2* The Agent helps John reach his time machine *3* John goes in the future,to a hospital where he is recovering from a facial reconstruction. *4* After recovering he goes back in time (with his new face) as a bartender and meets *John. *5* John tells him his life story and how he used to be Jane. *6* John and The Agent(bartender) go back in time to kill the man that left Jane. *7* John realises that he is the man that left Jane pregnant and than dumped her. *8* The Agent convinces John to leave Jane(again) and to take up his job as an Agent as He(the agent/bartender) is gonna retire. *9* John leaves Jane. *10* Jane gives birth. *11* The Agent/Bartender steals the baby and sends it back(18 years earlier) in an orphanage. *12* The Agent retires. *13* His machine doesn't decommission itself as planned and can still be used. He uses it *14* He encounters the fizzle bomber who is the Agent's future self suffering from psychosis from excessive time travel. *15* The fizzle bomber tries to convince the agent that the only way to end the cycle is for the agent to spare the bomber's life, unlike the Fizzle Bomber did in his past as the agent. *16* The Agent denies he'll ever become the fizzle bomber and kills him. *17* The Agent than helps burnt John reach his time machine. *The cycle repeats itself as the agent now will become the fizzle bomber, John will become the Agent, Jane will become John and the baby will become Jane.*
@@francescoferro5044 You see that question is not a paradox because that's something that happened with evoulution over a long period of time it's not equivalent.
I've watched this movie 3 times and I find something new about it every time. So underated no doubt will probably watch it a fourth time. My theory I think Robertson knows John is the fizzle bomber.
Oh he knows for sure. Thats why he tells him "things aren't that simple" when the barkeep calls the bomber a terrorist. Because essentially the bomber saves more lives than he takes. Crazyyy
Of course he knows. He needs the Fizzle bomber to exist to have a reason why the agents exist, i.e. his company. He is an integral part of the story of Jane/John/barkeep/Fizzle bomber because he is interested to keep the Fizzle bomber in the timeline.
I thought Robertson knowing that John is the fizzle bomber is a common fact. He is the one who set the decommission to be set when John Becomes the fizzle bomber.
Great video! It took me three watches to fully understand this movie, but once I finally did, it became my favorite time travel movie ever! One thing I will add to your excellent explanation is that I think the various versions of Jane/John's feelings for each other also had a lot to do with why s/he became the Fizzle Bomber. Jane's experience of growing up unloved and unwanted left her open to falling in love with the first guy who came along who was nice to her, then her experience of having her heart broken and baby kidnapped turned him into a cynic who believes "this world deserves the shitstorm that it gets," till he found purpose for awhile in his work (and, I believe, in the knowledge that he would one day see his younger selves again), but then the combination of finding out that he was to become the Fizzle Bomber and that he wouldn't see his younger selves again, along with the time travel-induced psychosis, is what drove him over the edge. Notice that the first thing the FB says to the Barkeep is "you look good. *I've missed you*," and the last line of the movie (the Barkeep's message to John) is "the only thing I know for sure is that you are the best thing that's ever happened to me. *I miss you dreadfully*." So I think it wasn't *just* the time travel that drove him insane. All the trauma he'd suffered over his/her life, plus being separated from the person(s) he loved (his younger selves) added to the mental instability that is a side-effect of time travel. I even think it's possible that one of the FB's motives, aside from his stated ones, is that he knew John would pursue him in order to stop him, and that he would see him again. Maybe he hoped that he'd be able to talk the Barkeep out of killing him this time and they could be together, or maybe he knew he wouldn't be able to, but it would be worth it to see him one more time before he died. I dunno, just my theory! But anyway, great video for a great movie! Oh, and to all the people complaining that Jane/John has no origin: that's the point. It's called a bootstrap paradox, and is fairly common in time travel stories. The object, information or, in this case, person, has no beginning or end point: it's a closed circle, hence all the discussion in the movie about the chicken or the egg and the snake eating its own tail (Ouroboros.)
Good comment, it’s funny that the FB tries to stop himself from shooting himself, coz he will never ever succeed. Not once in any of the infinite loops will he be able to stop it. I thought, “why doesn’t he hide in the corner to jump out, tie the barkeep up and THEN explain it?” But it’s because he can’t, same way we can’t change our future, it’s...PREDESTINED. Lol
I think since the fb is old, he wants to die. So the life of John ends in that laundromat. But there was another way out for John if he chooses. I think it was going past 54 years in any direction. We never see him attempt to go 54 years after 1991. Or anywhere close for that matter. I wonder if by doing any of those things, he could alter everything? Or is everything going to happen the way it's already happened? They did basically say luck is apart of everything as well. So there's literally no chance of a new idea or event happening to alter everything? Maybe there is, because everytime there's an illegal jump or conversation, history is changed a bit. So it is possible for a different outcome to take place. Especially if there's intervention by another time traveler who isn't John/ Jane. But what if all of that intervention has already happened as well off camera, and things still happened the way they played out all along? Lol
Correction, maybe he did jump into the future. That's how he sees his older self. But I guess his mind won't allow him to kill himself by jumping past that in either direction
Basically he's the dad, the mom and the daughter. But you're right; how did his character's existence come into being when its just one person making one's self after scene after scene after scene. LOL
X-Seventures - I didn’t realize I answer this already, perfectly. However I thought of another weird scenario: can an asexually produced being able to produce himself via time travel? (Which then is very similar to John impregnate Jane) Imagine: the being can produce asexually, like baby Jane had no parent in one timeline because she was taken into the past by an agent and placed in foster home. He will grow up and give birth on his own, so in all respect this baby is identical to himself already. As soon as the baby was born, the kid got taken into the past. Back to the father, losing the child felt grief and go to the bar and meet with the bar agent and so the story goes... All the sudden it simplifies the original problem. The first intuition is that the baby is born by natural mean at the moment of birth. When it get taken into the past, via the time machine, one must ask the question: is this baby the same as the baby that will eventually give birth to itself or at least an identical copy? If there are parallel universes then NO, and Yes otherwise. The first case is simple, we just have an infinite set of universes where this keep on taking place. (Which does sound pretty odd too). The second case seemingly the one lead to some sorta paradox, or doesn’t it? It kinda doesn’t. There are essentially two beings that cycle thru time. It is just a loop due to the existence of a time machine. So if anything the existence of time machine is the problem to be solved. In summary if the time machine is possible and having two sexes is possible, this story is possible. Those are very big ifs. Here is a diagram for it, sorta: Baby Groot--> Adult Groot--> gives birth to Baby Groot v.2--enters time machine with some Agent Groot--> exits time machine in the past as the only Baby Groot identical to the previous one. Edit: So you should think of it as two versions of Baby Groot got merged into one by the time machine. Otherwise v.1 and v.2 would still be distinct and can’t replace one another despite having identical sets of genes.
I still can't get over the idea that John somehow managed to fall in love with his past self while being aware of that fact, as well as the fact that he's going to abandon his past self and permanently scar her emotionally. You're essentially falling in love with a memory of yourself, whilst knowing that you're going to end up screwing them over. The time travel is good, but the fact it all hinges on John very weirdly falling in love with his past self always takes me out of the movie.
Exactly. Me and my sister guessed he was going to fall in love with his past self before it happened but refused to believe it until it happened. That's the worst part, I don't how that can possibly happen, it's so fucked up. Also, how is the kid so healthy?
I think it's because he doesnt know hes gojng to leave her. Maybe because this time, she's the man so she thinks she can change how things happened to her
One of the best movies I have ever scene better than the endgame time travel. This movies confuses us with multiple time travels. Now I am off to see Donnie Darko and Primer.
Primer is amazing. I honestly can't say which one is better. What I can say tho, I've studied quite some physics, and Primer has the most realistically possible way of time traveling. Also, it is more confusing than this movie.
Actually endgame's time travel is much better for the simple fact that it actually makes sense. This timeline sufferss from the same issues that most time travel movies suffer from with the exception of endgame... Which is there is no original timeline to begin the paradox. Jane/John never existed in the first place to create herself. No matter how you spin it doesn't work. Same thing goes for Terminator. There's nothing brilliant about the movie, but it is entertaining.
I've watched so many explanations of this movie.. I know the story clearly though. Jus wanna see how efficient the explainers could do it. So far I've seen many.. you're the one who did the best❤️
In my opinion, this is the best time travel movie ever. It explains how we all can be the same person. I was hoping to see how he wound up being Robertson... The best!
The most thought provocative film I've ever seen, on the grandfather's paradox! Predestination is an extraordinary look at "Cause and effect" of time travel in a screenplay. This film beautifully written opens the possibility our reality is already written.
In the theory of the movie (everything is predestined) yes. My personal theory if time travel (to the past) was possible in real life, is that there isn't any paradoxes. How? Because time isn't linear, by traveling into the past and killing your parents before they give birth to you, you would still exist. What would happen is the timeline would be split by that change into two, the one (future) where you came from let's call it timeline A, and one were you don't exist because your parents died, timeline B. When you go back to the future, you go to the future of that timeline, so you would go to a future where you weren't born. However there isn't any paradox because, you would still exist, you came originally from timeline A. Of course in that timeline A you aren't present anymore because you disappeared to go to the past and then by changing the past you made an alternate timeline and now live in that line. The only way then to get back to the timeline A would be to go back again and revert the changes. This would be the most difficult thing to do because the act of traveling back in time can potentially cause unforeseen consequences, for example you might speak to someone randomly to ask for the time or whatever and that could have consequences in the future even if they are unnoticeable. There is an anime that explores this concept very well, I recommend it if you are into time-travel, a subject I find deeply fascinating. It's called *Steins:Gate* This is purely philosophical, I don't have any evidence to back this theory. However, currently in physics traveling back in time is though to be theoretically impossible. But who knows, millennia from now, as our understanding of the universe of the universe expands, maybe we will find our laws of physics to be wrong or incomplete, and maybe there's something that would allow time travelling to the past. Maybe it is hubris. but I think that if it was possible, this theory of how it might work would be the most likely to be true. Simply because having paradoxes, would translate to be impossible to travel to the past. Which might forever be, because even this theory has flaws. For example, let's imagine that I regret changing the past and now I want to get back to timeline A, or at least move to near identical one. I could go back to a moment near the one where I came there first (from timeline A) and try to convince myself to not do it. However what if I can't convince myself and the last resort is to forcefully stop myself from changing it by killing me? Because that me is my past self, killing me will result in a paradox because if I kill past me, then it means I never managed to change the past, thus timeline B was never made and I never went back to kill myself since I'm now dead. See? Time-travel is complicated like that. So basically this theory of mine would only work if we assume that any changes made are irreversible, and once you change the past you can't undo-it.
@@danielsantos6437 I think the reason why he couldn’t change his past is because of the 1 time jump / mistake / interaction with the past he wasn’t supposed to make that cost him, which was the act of screwing his younger self. (I’d assume wilfully).
If time machine would exist, i would canceld my tinder account. I would do just like John and go back in time and date my self. Because im a good catch ;)
I finally realize why they're named John and Jane... John Doe and Jane Doe are the names used in when you don't know the name of a person. Also, I'm inclined to believe that the other agents are other 'perferct agents'; free of ancestry, closed loops, but definitely other people. If the other agents were to be versions of Baby Jane like John and the Barkeep are, then we would be dealing with alternate timelines.
I have watched this movie at least 3 times and read the short story. The Fizzle Bomber is a nice addition to the film that helps to explain the existence of the Temporal Bureau in more depth although the character of Mr. Robertson is still quite a mystery. He either is stuck in his own loop or needs Ethan Hawke's character for him to try to attempt to change his own destination although he's unlikely going to considering the film's title. The short story seems to be written as a mental and literary exercise in showing time travel paradoxes. It's unclear whether Robert Heinlin believed in predestination, however the Spierig Brothers appear to. The film adaptation is excellent and it wouldn't have been as good without Ethan Hawke and Sarah Snook's amazing performances.
The Heinlein story it's based on '-All You Zombies-' is a reworking of the themes of his earlier story By His Bootstraps .. which is all about predestination
A great analysis. For a time travel movie, the plot is pretty straightforward. Of course, the fact that the movie is based on Heinlein's fantastic "All You Zombies" certainly has a lot to do with that. Heinlein wrote several stories with perfect time loops (e.g. "By His Bootstraps") and was way ahead of his time (pun intended!) on matters of sex and sexuality (consider the masterpiece "Stranger in a Strange Land").
This is a direct movie adaptation of All You Zombies by Robert Heinlein. It's a short story, and if you like the film, I recommend it. Hadn't heard of the film until just now though, so I'm gonna be off to find that next.
glad someone mentions this. i also need to address that a simplified version of it has been roaming the internet for a long time before the film as well: www.creepypasta.com/the-time-paradox/
i can relate this movie to the german show 'dark' , it's confusing and hard to tell what is the beginning and what is the end !! snake eats its own tail forever !!!
I have a huge question, that i am not seeing an answer. How could the timeloop even start at all, when Jane and young John were both rejected from the project? Young John entered the project, ONLY when older John brought him into the "HQ", right? So, where was the original moment in timeline, when John was accepted into the project, without the help of timetravel?
The same question applies to how baby Jane exists and ended up on the orphanage steps without future Jane giving birth to her or putting her there. A bootstrap paradox is a lazy, poorly written technique where something exists "Because. Time travel." It's nonsense, and good writing avoids them. This movie crams a bunch of them in and people are mistaking that multiplied stupidity for deep, mind-blowing scifi.
Yeah... I think that my brain hurts trying to figure that out... seems like a good idea... but that huge hole of him never actually having a first day just ruins the actuality of it happening. Because John actually starts to travel in time before the time machine was actually invented?
@@paulmichalski5696 *That* is the huge hole that ruins the actuality of it happening for you? How did he start time traveling before time travel existed? He didnt. Time travel existed since 1933. A better question would be how did the main character come into existence in the first place? That should be your deal breaker.
This question can be asked in respect to lots of events in the movie but then it's a predestined paradox there's no origin it basically occurred bcz of the past present n future influences/selves which in turn exist because of the event 😂😂
We really need such kind of movies. Seriously miss the time when mindfuck movies were appreciated the most. But in today the movies are all about action, blast ,guns, firing, etc.
There's also the theory that Mr. Robertson is also the same character but instead of being in a loop, he is the one who created the loop manipulating past versions of him to create the best agent and ultimatelly making said agent a different character than Rombertson. Though, I've read that a long time ago and I guess the person wrote that thinking about their similar staches
I think when John was burned he didn't know that it was the bartender that sent him back. He thought it was the bomber. He didn't know it was him until he went back and failed to capture the bomber. He wasn't going there to close that loop he went there to try to break the loop by catching the bomber but failed and then became the assistance that he had thought was the bomber teasing him as he burned by saving his life.
Does it matter that the song, I'm my own grandpa plays in the movie. He gets himself pregnant over and over, there is something very disturbing about that. Warped imagination.
I hope I'm not the first person to mention this: The source material is the 1958 shorty story All You Zombies by Robert Heinlein. The movie is a reasonably faithful adaptation, but the story has an added twist in that it is told in first person by the bartender.
I freakin love movies like this!! time travel, paradox, it has all the elements I love. Someone suggest me more movies like this, but i probably have seen most of the good ones
The joke that Barkeep told to John .... 1. A man walked into the bar. (Reference that Jhon wasn't man from childhood) 2. What comes first , Egg or Hen. (Egg emplies baby jane , hen implies Adult Jane as both comes from each other.) to which Jhon replies Rooster. (Implies to Jhon who became Barkeeper , who make it all happen) oh god..that was hell of a movie.
What I took from it is the role of predestination and free will. We cannot see the future so we play the game of life behaving and making choices. Only to find that those choices couldn’t have been any other choice. So predestination is inescapable. It’s a lesson on the journey towards self acceptance. Accepting the path unique to your experience. Because it couldn’t have been any other.
I got everything else, but at the very end is he talking about himself as Jane, I don't get why he says "The only thing that I know for sure is that you are the best thing that's ever happened to me. I miss you dreadfully". btw I'm Bengali too, nice
There's one thing I don't get: If john(bartender) kills his future self before he commits the terrorist attack, doesn't that mean the terrorist attack never actually happens?
The explanation is that he kills himself, the Fizzle Bamber", but them becomes the Fizzle bomber and goes on to commit all the same crimes. This movie isn't made to make any real sense. That's the very definition of a paradox.
In the movie, in one scene during the conversation with the barkeep, John talks about how his reflection keeps reminding of the "bastard" that ruined his life. He felt severe irony in it
one thing for sure is that the protagonist (all the selves and consciousnesses) is stuck in an infinite time loop due to bootstrap paradox, and that is unimaginable hell...
Ken Berndt I mean it’s your self she thought she was ugly in her past time but when she went back in time she saw how beautiful she was that she almost couldn’t remember herself she said when she was girl she stopped looking in the mirror css she thought she was ugly
I was sitting at the computer a few years back while my Wife was watching this movie. I had read the short story (All You Zombies) it was based upon many times. When I heard the dialog about the whisky named "Old Underwear" I turned to my Wife without even looking at the TV and said "The bartender and the guy he is talking to are the same person". Wow was she upset when I told her that!
If we really wanted to break the cycle, he should have killed himself, not the Fizzle bomber. Then the Fizzle bomber would not exist because he wouldn't become the Fizzle bomber. The agents would not need to exist because the Fizzle Bomber would not exist.
@@VincentFarrugia Some people don't have the ability to pull the trigger... maybe "pulling the trigger" was the REAL "pull the trigger". Yes, suicide was the only way to stop from becoming the fizzle bomber.
@@sisandamkhwanazi4425 he cant kill himself because then he wouldnt exist as the bomber which means they would never have made time travling device to go back and find the bomber its all a paradox and a loop, there is no end and no begining, he exists solely to be born by himself and kill himself just so that time travling exists
He'll never destroy the time machine. He wouldn't kill himself. He loves himself. He said he would never be the fizzle bomber. He tried living with another girl but it didn't worked out, he missed Jane dreadfully.
If they ever decide to make a part 2 they should focus on mr. Robinson in which you find out that you're actually in hell and mr. Robinson is the devil and he is torturing many souls in a kind of virtual reality
@@lutherfox5744 I don't think Robinson even really exists properly in the original - It's been a while since I've read it ("All you zombies" by Robert Heinlein) but going through it's wiki page, there's no mention of robinson - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_You_Zombies
@@yash124 how? the bartender killed himself in that laundromat, id just assume hes some powerful guy that had something to do with the creation of the time machine. and hes in his own very sophisticated timeline.
one thing nobody is talking about is that, chances of mr robertson being the jane/john is also pretty high, you know how much he admires jane and knows all he doesn't seem to age shows how he is also included in the paradox. Other thing is that in the end old john says that he needs to love/accept him instead of killing him to change what they are but he killed him before that mr robertson said that he likes john, john also points that he thinks mr robertson admires john. what if mr robertson is the version where he doesn't kill himself. Well except all those there is one more proof, to end in complete paradox and loop jane should have no past which indeed is explained in the movie but how does mr robertson then comes from , he knows everything he is tha part of paradox.
John said when he were just took-in the orphanage that he was one of the 11 other baby orphans.. and there are 12 agents.... Mr. Robertson have it all laid after all 🤔🤔🤔
Yes I also believe Robertson is the mastermind behind it all. I think his goal is immortality so therefore he created Jane/John to create a time loop. Have you noticed that Robertson is the same age throughout the entire movie...
This movie was based on the book "All You Zombies" by Robert Heinlein - It's a great read, definitely recommend it! "By His Bootstraps" also by him deals with a similar concept and is a short fun read; "The Cat Who Walks Through Walls" supposedly also has the Time Corp but I have yet to read it
The timeline doesn't bother me or is it hard to understand, what I really don't get is the point of time travel in this movie in the first place, it's like the only reason for the plot of time-travel is to have this bizarre story told, it serves no other purpose than to create this never-ending cycle of the weirdest person ever created, this time travelling agency has no other agents other than John so what else do they do? what else do they prevent? also, how is it possible for someone to have sex with their past self to then give birth to a baby who is really just you anyway, like how can you give birth to yourself? that has to be.....................fuck I have no words other than impossible, how can you create yourself? does that make her/him a god?
Dene Robbins It's a movie created to mindfck your brain, pardon my French but the word here serves to explain exactly what you feeling about the movie and why you have so many questions as it lead you with more questions than answers..also done so different people analyze it differently and have discussion about it therefore never forgetting the movie and spreading to their friends to watch it and therefore creating a cult movie...also this genre of movies are popular between persons that want to look at life differently and many enjoy it more than clean cut movies..if you managed to enjoy for what it is...you have the triangle,convergence, mr nobody..not about time traveling but loops and life's decisions..or ever similar primer...other ones to mindfck your brain are Martin Scorsese and Leo combinations such as shutter island and others....
The first Jane was born and raised in an orphanage, went to the space program. Mr. Robertson upon realizing that she had both sex organs realized he could use her for the set up. He orchestrated it all by going forward getting John taking him back to go back to impregnate Jane. The first loop, Mr Robertson acted as the barkeep role, then needing this loop to continue without him, that’s when he influences Doe to take his role in the loop. That’s my theory anyways. ;)
I'm sure most people have these questions about this movie... 1) obviously Jane and John had sex at some point, meaning that Jane must have seen the scars on John's body,after that Jane became John,so why didn't she realize that she had same scars as John ? 2) bartender was fighting the fizzle bomber,so why didn't he notice that they both look the same ? (with the long hair being the only difference)
Well I got my own theory 1st iteration is like Time travel is discovered in 1981 discovered by Robertson who later founds the temporal bewrow in this time all the crimes takes place except the fizzle bombing, Robertson definitely lost a loved one in past crimes which I assume is a double gender kid so he decides to use time travel to save his kid and prevent other crimes from happening he goes back save his kid and with this he creates a parallel reality cuz in original universe all crimes taked place but jumping in first parallel reality but now he wants to train his kid to do time travel but decides to leave him/her at orphanage cuz he can't do himself iteration one completes at the place where he left his kid .when john comes and leaves his kid Robertson comes and replaces it with true jane the self created Jane from iteration 2 which starts before iteration 1 so the Robertson here breaks or continue chain its on him cuz. He watches all laying falling out dominoes
This movie is the definition of 'Paradox'.
It's a closed loop, no beginning no end.
10/10
Definition of Bootstrap Paradox or like it is stated in the movie, Predestination Paradox. (There are other kinds of paradoxes)
@@merlini6213 He still becomes the bomber waiting for the next barkeep to kill him. rinse repeat.
This is nonsense. Jane was born somehow and gave birth to a baby and she named her jane. Then the bartender snatches baby jane and leaves it the past. Then that jane has to grow up and become a new jane but not her mother who was born with both male and female reproductive systems.
@suraj rawat Except that there is nothing to indicate that and no reason or motivation given for why Robertson would do that. In fact, they mention a few times that they want to limit the number of jumps they make. You're writing your own fan fiction.
@clarissa35f LOL "Dude, if time travel existed could you go back in time and be your own parent?" is stereotypical stoner "intelligence". That is not genius.
When you realize that after the facial operation he said "my mother wouldn't recognize me" but she didn't recognize him anyway
Lorenzo Cavani underrated comment bro looool. That was deeeeep
@Snehil Shrey lmfaooo
@Snehil Shrey i know i just find your comment hilarious cause i barley get the movie either. Buuuut what he was talking abt was in the first scene when John got his face fixed up bc of the fire, He said to the doctor "my mother wouldn't recognize me". That time he was gonna meet up with his younger self, which is his mother, which is also him bc he gave birth to himself- im rambling 😂😂 but hope you get it
Lorenzo Cavani or when John says “I just found out today I don’t shoot blanks anymore” then proceeds to knock himself up Lmaoo
jeremy cox what does the line "don't shoot blanks" mean??
I just watched this movie for the first time and whilst reading the comments I read a comment left by myself 4 years ago about the first time I watched this movie ! I’m freaking out
I see what you did there agent John
Great Scott 😮
One of the best movies ever made about time travel, and the acting was Iconic.
Primer (2004) is in my opinion the most mind fuck time travel movie ever and the budget for it was $7000.
If he kills himself instead of the fizzle bomber (future himself) the whole paradox ends..imo🔥
@clarissa35f what i feel is barkeep never knew he(lets call him j1) was going to become bomber and shoots bomber(lets call him j0)...by which he unknowingly plants seed for him becoming bomber himself...and the whole things happens again..jane is born again converts to barkeep(lets call him j2)..encounters fizzle bomber(j1) and shoots j1 believing he never becomes bomber..and cycle goes on..believing he will never become bomber is what keeps loop running..just like jane never knew why john left her till she herself becomes john..same is with barkeep and fizzle bomber..
saying barkeep knew he will become bomber is i feel incorrect..correct me if iam wrong
@clarissa35f i have been thinking abt the killing himself part and agree that is impossible becoz of a single timeline(thanks to you❤)...but still think he didnt know he was going to become fizzle bomber..just like jane didn't know abt why john left till she had to leave jane alone on the bench..i feel i need to take this to reddit to get some answers😂..this time traveling shit is really fascinating and made me very curious and obsessed abt it🔥...btw thank u soo much for clearing the killing himself part..i couldnt find this theory of him killing himself being discussed on reddit or st..so thanks again❤
@clarissa35f This is genuinely convincing but..it is absolutely true john knows more then jane...barkeep knows more then john ....BUT it is also not incorrect that fizzle bomber knows more then barkeep..barkeep knows atleast 1 less than what bomber knows, that is what i feel..
Remember the scene how barkeep makes illegal jump after he sees john reunite with 1963 jane and knowing the fact john is going to fall in love with jane again and get her preg this was the moment he jumped to that face burn incident to try and kill bomber knowing even after the falling in love part is inevitable he still tried...he thought of trying to change what has happened...and this makes me think while shooting bomber he thought of giving it another chance and thought he wont become bomber but thanks to violin that was supposed to decommission (maybe robertson did this intentionally) didnt and he became bomber...also remember each character experiences every moment only once irrespective of the no. Of generations from baby jane to fizzle bomber in each generation...like jane only meets john once barkeep only steals jane once...he only shoots bomber once irrespective of knowing what he had done previously which was obvious killing bomber..
Also the way barkeep confidently says "I will never become you" and fizzle bomber continuously says "if u kill me u become me lets team up" (becoz when he was barkeep he killed bomber and became when he is now) but barkeep is stubborn saying "i will never become you" even if he knows he will become fizzle bomber he still gives it a try and finally decides to shoot bomber and thinks this time he will make it right but continues to jump looses his mind(just like iam thinking abt all this) and finally becomes bomber...and this is how again jane becomes john then becomes barkeep and finally fizzle bomber...the whole thing repeats again and again and continues indefinitely..
ANYWAYS..TBH for last couple of days since i watched this movie..it literally made me crazy as i go in depths of it..so i feel some things are just meant to be left as they are and its ok to not understand everything...there are a lot of things going on in my head regarding time travel..and i feel discussions like these are best done when 2 people discussing are sitting together wid a whiteboard which is not possible here...but i really appreciate your explanations...and thank u soo much for those book recommendations i will surely start with one once my head is stable..hope have a good day..❤️
I just watched this again and it was as thrilling as ever. The sublte hints when Barkeep is singing "I'm my own grandpa" are a nice touch. Thanks for the anlaysis.
yeah i have noticed this song when he go down the stairs "iam my own granpa"
In starting when he has his face damaged, he says i guess not even my mother would recognise me!!
Because he was his own mother from past😂 so she couldn't recognise the bartender as herself
@@fridouille9189 The song is in the original story.
I thought it was too "on the nose". That tipped me off to start looking for twists.
There's also the scene when John calls the barkeep a 'son of a bitch', the barkeep replied 'Son of a bitch, that's funny'.
There's a pretty cool line of dialogue when John is explaining to to the barkeep (future John) that the description of the man who stole her baby was a man with face "like yours or mine,"
Well that was more accurate than we knew at the time lol
wow... I missed that, But now that you mention it, it's a beautiful line.
or when he scoffed at the "son of a bitch" remark.... i picked it up right at that point what it was actually meant to be... i was already suspicious that's what it was from earlier scenes (with the scars talking to the doctor) and that sealed it for me
When she changed into him, he didn't realize it was him? Why did he proceed father then. He had so many chances to brake the loop
So much Craving for "love" and looking for "great" purpose brought them selves in chaos...that leads to other people disasters and death..
@@msjadhav5192 - John fathered Baby Jane because that's the point. It is predestined that these events occur.
So basically, he fell in love with herself and gave birth to herself and he took herself back in time so she can grow up and meet himself after being brought back in time by himself to take her own viginity, Simple🙄
then he continue searching for the mysterious bomber which actually was himself offcourse
That shit kept me scratching my head for minutes untill it just hurts to think of it
you're right..it simple when you describe it like this
Then he kills himself
Sounds like masturbation with extra steps
Wanna hear a joke? "Guy walks into a bar..." Whoever wrote this is brilliant!!
Dominique Parker it was literally . He was the actual guy that walked into a bar(in the woman phase of his body) then he proceed to tell the story.
@Dominique Parker barkeep says a guy walks into a bar. It's funny coz it directly states to John who is a guy at that point . So do u get it?
**EXPLAINED** (super easy to understand)
*1* John burns his face disarming a bomb.
*2* The Agent helps John reach his time machine
*3* John goes in the future,to a hospital where he is recovering from a facial reconstruction.
*4* After recovering he goes back in time (with his new face) as a bartender and meets *John.
*5* John tells him his life story and how he used to be Jane.
*6* John and The Agent(bartender) go back in time to kill the man that left Jane.
*7* John realises that he is the man that left Jane pregnant and than dumped her.
*8* The Agent convinces John to leave Jane(again) and to take up his job as an Agent as He(the agent/bartender) is gonna retire.
*9* John leaves Jane.
*10* Jane gives birth.
*11* The Agent/Bartender steals the baby and sends it back(18 years earlier) in an orphanage.
*12* The Agent retires.
*13* His machine doesn't decommission itself as planned and can still be used. He uses it
*14* He encounters the fizzle bomber who is the Agent's future self suffering from psychosis from excessive time travel.
*15* The fizzle bomber tries to convince the agent that the only way to end the cycle is for the agent to spare the bomber's life, unlike the Fizzle Bomber did in his past as the agent.
*16* The Agent denies he'll ever become the fizzle bomber and kills him.
*17* The Agent than helps burnt John reach his time machine.
*The cycle repeats itself as the agent now will become the fizzle bomber, John will become the Agent, Jane will become John and the baby will become Jane.*
Amazing nd thanks
Just watched it nd this was perfect explanation
17 will be between 7 and 8
Yes but how does Jane even exist it Jane and John gave birth to themself?
@@francescoferro5044 You see that question is not a paradox because that's something that happened with evoulution over a long period of time it's not equivalent.
user 3 Thanks a lot man! I had a hard time understanding this. Kudos to you for making it super easy and so precise!!!
And to think this whole thing could have been avoided if Jane just swallowed himself.. .
🤣
Then he wouldn't exist
LOL
@@user-ow9ct6nt8k wow...what a genius. Clearly having fun. I can tell
@@user-ow9ct6nt8k wow...what a genius. Clearly having fun. I can tell
I've watched this movie 3 times and I find something new about it every time. So underated no doubt will probably watch it a fourth time. My theory I think Robertson knows John is the fizzle bomber.
Super Lufc Robertson looks like older John
Oh he knows for sure. Thats why he tells him "things aren't that simple" when the barkeep calls the bomber a terrorist. Because essentially the bomber saves more lives than he takes. Crazyyy
@@krystal7710 oh yeah so Robertson wants John to keep becoming the fizzle bomber because he saves lives 😲
Of course he knows. He needs the Fizzle bomber to exist to have a reason why the agents exist, i.e. his company. He is an integral part of the story of Jane/John/barkeep/Fizzle bomber because he is interested to keep the Fizzle bomber in the timeline.
I thought Robertson knowing that John is the fizzle bomber is a common fact. He is the one who set the decommission to be set when John Becomes the fizzle bomber.
Great video! It took me three watches to fully understand this movie, but once I finally did, it became my favorite time travel movie ever!
One thing I will add to your excellent explanation is that I think the various versions of Jane/John's feelings for each other also had a lot to do with why s/he became the Fizzle Bomber. Jane's experience of growing up unloved and unwanted left her open to falling in love with the first guy who came along who was nice to her, then her experience of having her heart broken and baby kidnapped turned him into a cynic who believes "this world deserves the shitstorm that it gets," till he found purpose for awhile in his work (and, I believe, in the knowledge that he would one day see his younger selves again), but then the combination of finding out that he was to become the Fizzle Bomber and that he wouldn't see his younger selves again, along with the time travel-induced psychosis, is what drove him over the edge.
Notice that the first thing the FB says to the Barkeep is "you look good. *I've missed you*," and the last line of the movie (the Barkeep's message to John) is "the only thing I know for sure is that you are the best thing that's ever happened to me. *I miss you dreadfully*."
So I think it wasn't *just* the time travel that drove him insane. All the trauma he'd suffered over his/her life, plus being separated from the person(s) he loved (his younger selves) added to the mental instability that is a side-effect of time travel. I even think it's possible that one of the FB's motives, aside from his stated ones, is that he knew John would pursue him in order to stop him, and that he would see him again. Maybe he hoped that he'd be able to talk the Barkeep out of killing him this time and they could be together, or maybe he knew he wouldn't be able to, but it would be worth it to see him one more time before he died. I dunno, just my theory!
But anyway, great video for a great movie!
Oh, and to all the people complaining that Jane/John has no origin: that's the point. It's called a bootstrap paradox, and is fairly common in time travel stories. The object, information or, in this case, person, has no beginning or end point: it's a closed circle, hence all the discussion in the movie about the chicken or the egg and the snake eating its own tail (Ouroboros.)
Good comment, it’s funny that the FB tries to stop himself from shooting himself, coz he will never ever succeed. Not once in any of the infinite loops will he be able to stop it. I thought, “why doesn’t he hide in the corner to jump out, tie the barkeep up and THEN explain it?” But it’s because he can’t, same way we can’t change our future, it’s...PREDESTINED. Lol
I think since the fb is old, he wants to die. So the life of John ends in that laundromat. But there was another way out for John if he chooses. I think it was going past 54 years in any direction. We never see him attempt to go 54 years after 1991. Or anywhere close for that matter. I wonder if by doing any of those things, he could alter everything? Or is everything going to happen the way it's already happened? They did basically say luck is apart of everything as well. So there's literally no chance of a new idea or event happening to alter everything?
Maybe there is, because everytime there's an illegal jump or conversation, history is changed a bit. So it is possible for a different outcome to take place. Especially if there's intervention by another time traveler who isn't John/ Jane.
But what if all of that intervention has already happened as well off camera, and things still happened the way they played out all along? Lol
Correction, maybe he did jump into the future. That's how he sees his older self. But I guess his mind won't allow him to kill himself by jumping past that in either direction
Well said!
? All you have to do is watch the movie, it's self explanatory.
So the question is, when did this character's existence come into being? Chicken or the egg with a time travel twist. Love time paradoxes. 💙
easy john had sex with jane (who gives birth to jane (her self)
So.. he / she was/is Mom, Dad and daughter to her / him self
My guess is that once they invented and started messing with (Time Travel) they accidently created this reality and turned it into a "paradox"
When the writer decided to write this story.
Basically he's the dad, the mom and the daughter. But you're right; how did his character's existence come into being when its just one person making one's self after scene after scene after scene. LOL
X-Seventures - I didn’t realize I answer this already, perfectly. However I thought of another weird scenario: can an asexually produced being able to produce himself via time travel? (Which then is very similar to John impregnate Jane)
Imagine: the being can produce asexually, like baby Jane had no parent in one timeline because she was taken into the past by an agent and placed in foster home. He will grow up and give birth on his own, so in all respect this baby is identical to himself already. As soon as the baby was born, the kid got taken into the past. Back to the father, losing the child felt grief and go to the bar and meet with the bar agent and so the story goes...
All the sudden it simplifies the original problem. The first intuition is that the baby is born by natural mean at the moment of birth. When it get taken into the past, via the time machine, one must ask the question: is this baby the same as the baby that will eventually give birth to itself or at least an identical copy? If there are parallel universes then NO, and Yes otherwise. The first case is simple, we just have an infinite set of universes where this keep on taking place. (Which does sound pretty odd too). The second case seemingly the one lead to some sorta paradox, or doesn’t it? It kinda doesn’t. There are essentially two beings that cycle thru time. It is just a loop due to the existence of a time machine. So if anything the existence of time machine is the problem to be solved.
In summary if the time machine is possible and having two sexes is possible, this story is possible. Those are very big ifs. Here is a diagram for it, sorta:
Baby Groot--> Adult Groot--> gives birth to Baby Groot v.2--enters time machine with some Agent Groot--> exits time machine in the past as the only Baby Groot identical to the previous one.
Edit: So you should think of it as two versions of Baby Groot got merged into one by the time machine. Otherwise v.1 and v.2 would still be distinct and can’t replace one another despite having identical sets of genes.
I still can't get over the idea that John somehow managed to fall in love with his past self while being aware of that fact, as well as the fact that he's going to abandon his past self and permanently scar her emotionally.
You're essentially falling in love with a memory of yourself, whilst knowing that you're going to end up screwing them over.
The time travel is good, but the fact it all hinges on John very weirdly falling in love with his past self always takes me out of the movie.
I agree , thats weird AF And kind of creepy... At that moment i feel less invest on the movie
Exactly. Me and my sister guessed he was going to fall in love with his past self before it happened but refused to believe it until it happened. That's the worst part, I don't how that can possibly happen, it's so fucked up. Also, how is the kid so healthy?
I think it's because he doesnt know hes gojng to leave her. Maybe because this time, she's the man so she thinks she can change how things happened to her
@@tumbi97 Exactly
@@tumbi97 yeah but that doesn't explain how someone falls in love and f--ck himself. I mean, it could be possible, I just find it kind of creepy too.
The greatest mystery in this Movie is Mr. Robertson, like what the hell, he doesn't age and stuck in the loop with him/her.
One of the best movies I have ever scene better than the endgame time travel. This movies confuses us with multiple time travels. Now I am off to see Donnie Darko and Primer.
Primer is amazing. I honestly can't say which one is better. What I can say tho, I've studied quite some physics, and Primer has the most realistically possible way of time traveling. Also, it is more confusing than this movie.
@@unknown360ful Primer is the king of complex time travel movies.
@@unknown360ful I have seen both Primer and Predestination and I honestly think that Predestination was a little bit predictable.
@@the.invincible.9542 Yes actually I could predict some of the twists in Predestination too
Actually endgame's time travel is much better for the simple fact that it actually makes sense. This timeline sufferss from the same issues that most time travel movies suffer from with the exception of endgame... Which is there is no original timeline to begin the paradox. Jane/John never existed in the first place to create herself. No matter how you spin it doesn't work. Same thing goes for Terminator. There's nothing brilliant about the movie, but it is entertaining.
My brain hurts from trying to understand how one person can date themselves and give birth to themselves. 🤔
And try to catch themselves
Right. 😁 it’s too much.
I'm still trying to figure out Jane giving birth to herself
So the "go f**k yourself" it's true.
@@525moon "Would you ever fuck your clone" lol
How can someone come up with something like this in there head it’s crazy
Imagine clapping your own cheeks
Big brain
I've watched so many explanations of this movie.. I know the story clearly though. Jus wanna see how efficient the explainers could do it. So far I've seen many.. you're the one who did the best❤️
There is a difference between explaining a movie and recounting its events.
In my opinion, this is the best time travel movie ever. It explains how we all can be the same person. I was hoping to see how he wound up being Robertson... The best!
Vanessa K Massey you think he is? Wasn’t confirmed, what makes you think so ?
Hes deff not Robertson
Excuse the pun, but this has to be my favourite movie of all time
its really exceptionally imaginative and heart felt.
You knew you were going to say that !0!
dude...go fuck yourself🤣🤣🤣
The most thought provocative film I've ever seen, on the grandfather's paradox!
Predestination is an extraordinary look at "Cause and effect" of time travel in a screenplay.
This film beautifully written opens the possibility our reality is already written.
I love the idea that all the time agents are the same person at different points in the ultimate time loop.
So basically time travel is a predestined never ending loop and you cant change your past even if you time travel?
In the theory of the movie (everything is predestined) yes.
My personal theory if time travel (to the past) was possible in real life, is that there isn't any paradoxes. How? Because time isn't linear, by traveling into the past and killing your parents before they give birth to you, you would still exist. What would happen is the timeline would be split by that change into two, the one (future) where you came from let's call it timeline A, and one were you don't exist because your parents died, timeline B. When you go back to the future, you go to the future of that timeline, so you would go to a future where you weren't born. However there isn't any paradox because, you would still exist, you came originally from timeline A. Of course in that timeline A you aren't present anymore because you disappeared to go to the past and then by changing the past you made an alternate timeline and now live in that line. The only way then to get back to the timeline A would be to go back again and revert the changes. This would be the most difficult thing to do because the act of traveling back in time can potentially cause unforeseen consequences, for example you might speak to someone randomly to ask for the time or whatever and that could have consequences in the future even if they are unnoticeable.
There is an anime that explores this concept very well, I recommend it if you are into time-travel, a subject I find deeply fascinating. It's called *Steins:Gate*
This is purely philosophical, I don't have any evidence to back this theory. However, currently in physics traveling back in time is though to be theoretically impossible. But who knows, millennia from now, as our understanding of the universe of the universe expands, maybe we will find our laws of physics to be wrong or incomplete, and maybe there's something that would allow time travelling to the past. Maybe it is hubris. but I think that if it was possible, this theory of how it might work would be the most likely to be true. Simply because having paradoxes, would translate to be impossible to travel to the past. Which might forever be, because even this theory has flaws.
For example, let's imagine that I regret changing the past and now I want to get back to timeline A, or at least move to near identical one. I could go back to a moment near the one where I came there first (from timeline A) and try to convince myself to not do it. However what if I can't convince myself and the last resort is to forcefully stop myself from changing it by killing me? Because that me is my past self, killing me will result in a paradox because if I kill past me, then it means I never managed to change the past, thus timeline B was never made and I never went back to kill myself since I'm now dead. See? Time-travel is complicated like that. So basically this theory of mine would only work if we assume that any changes made are irreversible, and once you change the past you can't undo-it.
@@danielsantos6437 I think the reason why he couldn’t change his past is because of the 1 time jump / mistake / interaction with the past he wasn’t supposed to make that cost him, which was the act of screwing his younger self. (I’d assume wilfully).
If time machine would exist, i would canceld my tinder account. I would do just like John and go back in time and date my self. Because im a good catch ;)
A bit gay but ok. Hahaa.
Says The Joker lol
All this because of that one person on Tinder telling you to go fuck yourself...
Were you also a she/he in the past or are you planning on becoming a he/she?
I wouldnt call someone with a joker pic a good catch.Try cringetard it's more accurate.
So its a circle of the same person trying to change the past and the future but everything its predestined
In other words, John Doe is trapped in a time paradox forever by the evil Mr Robertson.
I finally realize why they're named John and Jane... John Doe and Jane Doe are the names used in when you don't know the name of a person.
Also, I'm inclined to believe that the other agents are other 'perferct agents'; free of ancestry, closed loops, but definitely other people. If the other agents were to be versions of Baby Jane like John and the Barkeep are, then we would be dealing with alternate timelines.
I have watched this movie at least 3 times and read the short story. The Fizzle Bomber is a nice addition to the film that helps to explain the existence of the Temporal Bureau in more depth although the character of Mr. Robertson is still quite a mystery. He either is stuck in his own loop or needs Ethan Hawke's character for him to try to attempt to change his own destination although he's unlikely going to considering the film's title. The short story seems to be written as a mental and literary exercise in showing time travel paradoxes. It's unclear whether Robert Heinlin believed in predestination, however the Spierig Brothers appear to.
The film adaptation is excellent and it wouldn't have been as good without Ethan Hawke and Sarah Snook's amazing performances.
The Heinlein story it's based on '-All You Zombies-' is a reworking of the themes of his earlier story By His Bootstraps .. which is all about predestination
A great analysis. For a time travel movie, the plot is pretty straightforward. Of course, the fact that the movie is based on Heinlein's fantastic "All You Zombies" certainly has a lot to do with that. Heinlein wrote several stories with perfect time loops (e.g. "By His Bootstraps") and was way ahead of his time (pun intended!) on matters of sex and sexuality (consider the masterpiece "Stranger in a Strange Land").
This is a direct movie adaptation of All You Zombies by Robert Heinlein. It's a short story, and if you like the film, I recommend it.
Hadn't heard of the film until just now though, so I'm gonna be off to find that next.
glad someone mentions this. i also need to address that a simplified version of it has been roaming the internet for a long time before the film as well:
www.creepypasta.com/the-time-paradox/
i can relate this movie to the german show 'dark' , it's confusing and hard to tell what is the beginning and what is the end !! snake eats its own tail forever !!!
Dark is definitely one of the best series in recent times
Dark is the best
Dark has lots of mixed time travel theories like butterfly effect, parallel universe, paradox, wormholes etc., it's the best time travel series ♥
This is one film i loved and understood while watching first time.Mr Nobody is another great film you should do a video on.
I definitely have to Mr Nobody - it been recommended a few time now :D
I have a huge question, that i am not seeing an answer.
How could the timeloop even start at all, when Jane and young John were both rejected from the project?
Young John entered the project, ONLY when older John brought him into the "HQ", right?
So, where was the original moment in timeline, when John was accepted into the project, without the help of timetravel?
It's a paradox loop
The same question applies to how baby Jane exists and ended up on the orphanage steps without future Jane giving birth to her or putting her there. A bootstrap paradox is a lazy, poorly written technique where something exists "Because. Time travel." It's nonsense, and good writing avoids them. This movie crams a bunch of them in and people are mistaking that multiplied stupidity for deep, mind-blowing scifi.
Yeah... I think that my brain hurts trying to figure that out... seems like a good idea... but that huge hole of him never actually having a first day just ruins the actuality of it happening. Because John actually starts to travel in time before the time machine was actually invented?
@@paulmichalski5696
*That* is the huge hole that ruins the actuality of it happening for you?
How did he start time traveling before time travel existed?
He didnt.
Time travel existed since 1933.
A better question would be how did the main character come into existence in the first place?
That should be your deal breaker.
This question can be asked in respect to lots of events in the movie but then it's a predestined paradox there's no origin it basically occurred bcz of the past present n future influences/selves which in turn exist because of the event 😂😂
Most complicated movie i ever watch. Thanks make me more understand this movie
We really need such kind of movies. Seriously miss the time when mindfuck movies were appreciated the most. But in today the movies are all about action, blast ,guns, firing, etc.
I'm desperate to find good mindfuck movies. I watched all the good one, I need more.
Have you watched any of Christopher nolans films?
Yeah, we need more movies like this, or shutter island, gone girl. They don't make such movies anymore i guess
Agreed. Like se7en
I’m watching this movie back to back. What a trip!
Am I predestined to rewatch the movie Predestination so I can watch this video essay.
I just watched this recently and it's good and confusing, thanks for the explanation! ❤
There's also the theory that Mr. Robertson is also the same character but instead of being in a loop, he is the one who created the loop manipulating past versions of him to create the best agent and ultimatelly making said agent a different character than Rombertson. Though, I've read that a long time ago and I guess the person wrote that thinking about their similar staches
I think when John was burned he didn't know that it was the bartender that sent him back. He thought it was the bomber. He didn't know it was him until he went back and failed to capture the bomber.
He wasn't going there to close that loop he went there to try to break the loop by catching the bomber but failed and then became the assistance that he had thought was the bomber teasing him as he burned by saving his life.
Does it matter that the song, I'm my own grandpa plays in the movie. He gets himself pregnant over and over, there is something very disturbing about that. Warped imagination.
I hope I'm not the first person to mention this: The source material is the 1958 shorty story All You Zombies by Robert Heinlein. The movie is a reasonably faithful adaptation, but the story has an added twist in that it is told in first person by the bartender.
I freakin love movies like this!! time travel, paradox, it has all the elements I love. Someone suggest me more movies like this, but i probably have seen most of the good ones
Time Crimes (even better than this IMHO)
@@PhotoCameraTech no way, I just watched Times Crimes, and it's infinitely worse
Looper
Dark.
Heinlein explains this best, when you are inside the system everything is freewill, outside the system it's predetermined. See how easy it is.
This is how Covid-19 started.
😂
The joke that Barkeep told to John ....
1. A man walked into the bar. (Reference that Jhon wasn't man from childhood)
2. What comes first , Egg or Hen. (Egg emplies baby jane , hen implies Adult Jane as both comes from each other.) to which Jhon replies Rooster. (Implies to Jhon who became Barkeeper , who make it all happen)
oh god..that was hell of a movie.
This is the loneliest punishment in human history. You got looped out from reality because you destroyed so many lives.
& the loop continues! Nice explanation btw 👍
Awesome explanation. Brilliant movie for brilliant people :)
The best part when he was singing " I'm my own grandpa "
I never had so many wtf moments in a movie 🤷🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
Well this is basically how the Creator becomes the Creation, on a cosmic level involving all life forms.
Brilliantly explained BTW.
Creator from umineko?
Awesome explanation (as always), thank you. Waiting for Southland Tales
Thanks! I'm getting together a list of film to analyse in future vids :)
SLT is one of my favorites; somewhat underrated I think.
What I took from it is the role of predestination and free will. We cannot see the future so we play the game of life behaving and making choices. Only to find that those choices couldn’t have been any other choice. So predestination is inescapable. It’s a lesson on the journey towards self acceptance. Accepting the path unique to your experience. Because it couldn’t have been any other.
I got everything else, but at the very end is he talking about himself as Jane, I don't get why he says "The only thing that I know for sure is that you are the best thing that's ever happened to me. I miss you dreadfully".
btw I'm Bengali too, nice
Thanks for watching my film analysis videos - I've been reading your comments :D
because that was the best part of his life, being Jane.
Because he is the Jane.
(I m Bengali And Sylhety too.
I did not expect this film to be so good!! Absolute mind f* but brilliant.
There's one thing I don't get:
If john(bartender) kills his future self before he commits the terrorist attack, doesn't that mean the terrorist attack never actually happens?
@Gregory Love It was all inevitable.
The explanation is that he kills himself, the Fizzle Bamber", but them becomes the Fizzle bomber and goes on to commit all the same crimes. This movie isn't made to make any real sense. That's the very definition of a paradox.
Wow,thanx a lot for this very clear explanation,it helps to understand the movie!
There is a problem here. When Jane became John, John should recognize himself that he was the men who left her when he was Jane.
He/she never looked at the mirror
He was burned attempting to disarmed that bomb as future John and had facial reconstruction surgery or possibly an entire face transplant.
In the movie, in one scene during the conversation with the barkeep, John talks about how his reflection keeps reminding of the "bastard" that ruined his life. He felt severe irony in it
It was explained by jane that while she steugle with her change, she stops looking in the mirror
@@Iam.arielle you are smart, yes, they had to add that so they can avoid the interference.
I have a feeling the Boss man created the Paradox in the first place but we'll never know. Interesting to ponder on.
Plot twist:
Robitson is God in that paradox 👀
one thing for sure is that the protagonist (all the selves and consciousnesses) is stuck in an infinite time loop due to bootstrap paradox, and that is unimaginable hell...
I'm still as confused as when I first watched the movie LOL!
Great explanation! I mostly had it figured out but you definitely filled in all the holes, thanks
except...because of recombination, it's impossible for a self fertilization to produce a clone.
MARIO ROSETE that’s why john doesn’t remember jane being so pretty, maybe in that timeline jane came out much prettier
Ken Berndt I mean it’s your self she thought she was ugly in her past time but when she went back in time she saw how beautiful she was that she almost couldn’t remember herself she said when she was girl she stopped looking in the mirror css she thought she was ugly
And so is time travel. Welcome to the land of fiction.
If the egg and the sperm come from the same individual, then I don't see the problem.
I was sitting at the computer a few years back while my Wife was watching this movie. I had read the short story (All You Zombies) it was based upon many times. When I heard the dialog about the whisky named "Old Underwear" I turned to my Wife without even looking at the TV and said "The bartender and the guy he is talking to are the same person". Wow was she upset when I told her that!
If he wanted to break the cycle, destroy the time machine??
but, predestination.. etc...
...about 23 minutes in I started getting irritated lol... big old loop!
If we really wanted to break the cycle, he should have killed himself, not the Fizzle bomber. Then the Fizzle bomber would not exist because he wouldn't become the Fizzle bomber. The agents would not need to exist because the Fizzle Bomber would not exist.
@@VincentFarrugia Some people don't have the ability to pull the trigger... maybe "pulling the trigger" was the REAL "pull the trigger".
Yes, suicide was the only way to stop from becoming the fizzle bomber.
@@sisandamkhwanazi4425 he cant kill himself because then he wouldnt exist as the bomber which means they would never have made time travling device to go back and find the bomber its all a paradox and a loop, there is no end and no begining, he exists solely to be born by himself and kill himself just so that time travling exists
He'll never destroy the time machine. He wouldn't kill himself. He loves himself. He said he would never be the fizzle bomber.
He tried living with another girl but it didn't worked out, he missed Jane dreadfully.
I'm gonna jump back to the Blue-Ray player and watch it again. Great Film!
Can somebody help me with the question - what would happen if barkeeper shot himself instead of fizzlebomber when they encounter?
the idea is this was predestined to not happen, like actually he had no choice but killing the fizzlebomber
Then the fizzlebomber wouldnt exist cus the past john killed himself
Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha, didn't you see he's already done that? He's already shot himself
WOW! really nice work here. we loved your break down!
Thank you 😁
Totally would have got it if Ethan Hawke played all four characters.
Just rewatched this with the fam after some years.
"You are weak."
"I am you."
"And you are also kinda sexy."
"I know."
One of the best movies have seen
So Finally Someone Heard Me😅
The absolute best noir time travel movie ever made. I will watch anything with Hawke. He is a shapeshifter kind of actor and perfect here.
If they ever decide to make a part 2 they should focus on mr. Robinson in which you find out that you're actually in hell and mr. Robinson is the devil and he is torturing many souls in a kind of virtual reality
What if mr Robinson is also the same person
Yash lalwani Actually, in the 'original'(?) story where the movie is based from (?), Robinson is John/Jane.
@@lutherfox5744 I don't think Robinson even really exists properly in the original - It's been a while since I've read it ("All you zombies" by Robert Heinlein) but going through it's wiki page, there's no mention of robinson - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_You_Zombies
@@yash124 how? the bartender killed himself in that laundromat, id just assume hes some powerful guy that had something to do with the creation of the time machine. and hes in his own very sophisticated timeline.
Basically the plot of the good place.
Your explanations are always top-notch, thank you
Is it just me that noticed the song "I'm my own GrandPa." ?
No matter how many times I watch this movie,it still grips me until the end!It's that good!
I missed you.. thank you😊
Have you seen timecrimes?
No - what's that? Sounds interesting!
It's another time loop movie I enjoyed! You should check it out! 😊
I've seen Coherence which I really enjoyed but not TimeCrimes so I'll check it out - thanks! :)
NICE vid
ima binge ur whole playlists
caant believe i havent found this channel before
All these recent time travel and multiverse movies popping up lately got me thinking a lot about the Mandela effect tbh
one thing nobody is talking about is that, chances of mr robertson being the jane/john is also pretty high, you know how much he admires jane and knows all he doesn't seem to age shows how he is also included in the paradox. Other thing is that in the end old john says that he needs to love/accept him instead of killing him to change what they are but he killed him before that mr robertson said that he likes john, john also points that he thinks mr robertson admires john. what if mr robertson is the version where he doesn't kill himself. Well except all those there is one more proof, to end in complete paradox and loop jane should have no past which indeed is explained in the movie but how does mr robertson then comes from , he knows everything he is tha part of paradox.
John said when he were just took-in the orphanage that he was one of the 11 other baby orphans.. and there are 12 agents.... Mr. Robertson have it all laid after all 🤔🤔🤔
Yes I also believe Robertson is the mastermind behind it all. I think his goal is immortality so therefore he created Jane/John to create a time loop. Have you noticed that Robertson is the same age throughout the entire movie...
Young Dab-A-Roosa yooooo thas riiight
This movie is so underrated. Love this movie so much.
This movie was based on the book "All You Zombies" by Robert Heinlein - It's a great read, definitely recommend it!
"By His Bootstraps" also by him deals with a similar concept and is a short fun read;
"The Cat Who Walks Through Walls" supposedly also has the Time Corp but I have yet to read it
Bruno Coelho I thought it was such an underwhelming story. Probably because I knew how it ended and loved how this movie expanded on it
😳🙃Thank you for the elucidation.🙂Now I can watch the film again and enjoy how well-constructed it all is. 🙏🖖💕
The timeline doesn't bother me or is it hard to understand, what I really don't get is the point of time travel in this movie in the first place, it's like the only reason for the plot of time-travel is to have this bizarre story told, it serves no other purpose than to create this never-ending cycle of the weirdest person ever created, this time travelling agency has no other agents other than John so what else do they do? what else do they prevent? also, how is it possible for someone to have sex with their past self to then give birth to a baby who is really just you anyway, like how can you give birth to yourself? that has to be.....................fuck I have no words other than impossible, how can you create yourself? does that make her/him a god?
Dene Robbins It's a movie created to mindfck your brain, pardon my French but the word here serves to explain exactly what you feeling about the movie and why you have so many questions as it lead you with more questions than answers..also done so different people analyze it differently and have discussion about it therefore never forgetting the movie and spreading to their friends to watch it and therefore creating a cult movie...also this genre of movies are popular between persons that want to look at life differently and many enjoy it more than clean cut movies..if you managed to enjoy for what it is...you have the triangle,convergence, mr nobody..not about time traveling but loops and life's decisions..or ever similar primer...other ones to mindfck your brain are Martin Scorsese and Leo combinations such as shutter island and others....
Speculative fiction, a term coined, I believe, by the original author, Robert Heinlein. What if......
It’s a serious Love/Hate relationship of self sabotage.
I can relate.
No where I found any explanation how the timeline for the first time created...…..I mean how the first Jane was born?
you are brilliant. that is the right question.
The first Jane was born and raised in an orphanage, went to the space program. Mr. Robertson upon realizing that she had both sex organs realized he could use her for the set up. He orchestrated it all by going forward getting John taking him back to go back to impregnate Jane. The first loop, Mr Robertson acted as the barkeep role, then needing this loop to continue without him, that’s when he influences Doe to take his role in the loop. That’s my theory anyways. ;)
I'm sure most people have these questions about this movie...
1) obviously Jane and John had sex at some point, meaning that Jane must have seen the scars on John's body,after that Jane became John,so why didn't she realize that she had same scars as John ?
2) bartender was fighting the fizzle bomber,so why didn't he notice that they both look the same ? (with the long hair being the only difference)
And they say math is hard
Phenomenal explanation. I really liked your video. I subbed and we will see what you got!
Best time movie ever
When I realized what was happening, I started laughing! It is so insane that it is hilarious!
Well I got my own theory
1st iteration is like Time travel is discovered in 1981 discovered by Robertson who later founds the temporal bewrow in this time all the crimes takes place except the fizzle bombing, Robertson definitely lost a loved one in past crimes which I assume is a double gender kid so he decides to use time travel to save his kid and prevent other crimes from happening he goes back save his kid and with this he creates a parallel reality cuz in original universe all crimes taked place but jumping in first parallel reality but now he wants to train his kid to do time travel but decides to leave him/her at orphanage cuz he can't do himself iteration one completes at the place where he left his kid .when john comes and leaves his kid Robertson comes and replaces it with true jane the self created Jane from iteration 2 which starts before iteration 1 so the Robertson here breaks or continue chain its on him cuz. He watches all laying falling out dominoes
I think Robertson knows all along that John will become and is the fizzle bomber. That's the feeling I get.
Explained excellently, thanks!