Wow great video this is really invaluable, we don’t do a lot of cool gas but either way extremely interesting to watch how you guys fixed what seems to be a design problem! Great job
That was engineering at its finest despite the mistake. I'm 3 and half years in on install doing ac in the UK, been following you hvacr vids hvac school and I don't think I've spent so much time watching everything you guys are doing. I've learned more watching your vids, repeating repeating everything. The quality of information now is awesome. Keep it up please. Every day is a learning day 👍
Always nice to work with someone who's able and willing to teach you something. Some people are just blessed with certain talents. Ive been in HVAC controls on the software side about 10 years. Schneider Continuum, Niagra, StruxureWare, Automated Logic, and some others but i always watch mechanical videos whenever i can. The more you know the more you make. Awesome explanation at the end! Great video
Brilliant video mate, absolutely brilliant! I haven't worked on any racks with cool gas defrost, only hot. And a very effective repair. It takes a high quality tradesman to find that problem and execute and effective solution. Well done! I bet the ice was hard and slow forming. Looked like the rack wasn't new either, has probably been doing that for years. It's times like this I love our trade.
20:11 - The length of the presentation is in direct proportion to the depth of the explanation. Thank you for sharing your experience especially the drawing. And you’re right:this was a genius idea. This was an effective workaround; but, what explain the sudden pressure drop accross that cool gas valve in the first place (after the system was placed into service)? Would just replacing the valve have fixed the problem? When did that rack stop defrosting te cases? Surely, it wasn’t like that on original system installation?!
Sometimes i miss these more complex creative jobs. But then again, i have it pretty good where i'm at now. At the moment you showed the error, it hit me right in the feels. We've all done stuff like that once or more :D.
I recently got to see cool gas defrost and it’s not extremely difficult just different and takes time to understand it so I definitely feel your pain haha
Great Job explaining what’s going on rack systems.... So interesting, never get tired of it.... Will you’ll be adding a OLDR / DDR valve in the future.... I know that will have to be explained further to your audience, but you’re the man/ team for it..... This is something you have to be lucky to be apart of, plus I Love the transparency when you made when you corrected the mistake....
Great video and explanation! Gotta love thinking ahead and solving problems when hard to see big picture on a rack system. I love working on them but unfortunately it’s maybe a once a week thing.
Yeah, this is definitely not something I would have found on my own. This guy I worked with is so freaking smart. Glad I get to work with him and learn some cool stuff.
Interesting vid no doubt. It's amazing the engineering behind it all and it seems complex but when you break it down to thermodynamics like you did at the end it had to work. Pump out the header with the help of the compressor and control the solenoids with a bunch of relays I'm assuming for each individual case lol fun stuff.
@@rookierefrigeration4357 Somehow the office spun it. I went up and down the ladder quite a few times to confirm i was on the right unit. I also wasn't the person who diagnosed it, but that is no excuse. Just curious, are you guys slow as balls right now? I am looking at my 2 week pay stub and have 38 hours. 2 weeks ago had 27 hours for two weeks. I am normally getting 80-120 hrs. Ive been on call all week and no calls at all.
@@rookierefrigeration4357 That is good for you, others in this area are busy too. I don't know what is up with the company i work for. Last year we were slow, but i still got my 40.
The relay output board has a point that’s NO NC. So once any of those cases call for defrost it just switches between the two solenoid. We used a flexible combiner I believe.
Thanks for posting man, interesting video to watch. Sounds like you initially installed it on the equalizing line lol. I've never heard of having to install a pumpout like this before, but for a remote header it totally makes sense. I think I would've wanted to install something to limit the flow during pumpout. It will just be vapor and will probably be okay, but it would've been nice to put a cap tube or something on so it isnt so jolting when pumpout starts. Looks like what you could do though is just throttle that service valve where the pumpout line connects.
Yes, that’s initially where we installed it. The equalizing line. Lol. And when it pumps out it doesn’t do anything noticeable on the rack or compressor. It takes less than a min to pump out and is working great. Thanks for the input. If we have issues on the future I’ll think about throttling that angle valve. 👍🏽
I think it will work fine since there will always be flow either to the defrost or back to suction - there will be no time for the vapor to lay in the header and cool off to condense..
Nice one blud . Hey , what's that magnetic tool you used to check the solenoid valve was working ? I need one of those , right now I use a bloody flat head screwdriver to see if it gets pulled in by the coil , or I'll dismount the coil and mount it back real quick to see if the valve closes and opens . This tool would make my life easier !
@@rookierefrigeration4357 Yeah , the problem is our supply houses , at least where I live , don't seem to care about bringing in the good stuff . You should see the rubbish they have on the shelves , it just blows my mind . Even my meters I got on the internet . I guess you guys over on the States get the real deal , lucky youz !
Can i have some questions. First of why is it change state after that solenoid when calling for defrost? Restriction? Secondly the cool gas header is not part of the cooling cycle? Other word, only when one of the case call for defrost then this cool gas header is a common feed of the cool gas from receiver? Thank you very much
How would an alternative solution of putting a heating cable around the kool gas manifold compare to yours? I'm curious whether what you did is an industry standard (and any other way would be regarded as improper) or there are many solutions to choose. From the point of view of simplicity (set-up of control signals, competences of technicians servicing the system in the future), reliability and initial cost the heating cable solution could be better. Operating cost should not be prohibitive as well (back-of-the-envelope calculation gave me the value of 35 W).
Most self regulating heat trace stops heating at 50 degrees - if the system was condensing in the header at 62 degrees the self regulating heat trace would have already turned off. If you didn't use self regulating heat trace you would have to install a power source and thermostats plus continue with paying for the electricity - the install they chose is basically free after the installation... and there are only two solenoids to troubleshoot in the event of a failure - in the event of a failure on a heat trace system you have to rebuild the entire job to replace a failed piece of heat trace.
@@jth1699 Thanks for the replay. After I gave it more thought I believe they chose the best solution not because it was cheaper to run but because (what was not told in the video) the liquid could collect not only in the manifold but also in supplying pipes. Heating header would not address this. Case closed. Lesson learnt.
The temp in the space the remote header is in drops below the saturation of the cool gas. The cool gas inside that header sits there for almost 20 hours until the cases call for defrost, usually at midnight. So you are condensing all that vapor into a liquid because of the ambient temp.
The best part...? That shit usually only happens at 2AM on Saturday to the On Call Tech or when it’s +120f on July 4th and half your truck is in the bird shit up on the roof of a C-Store.
How to you size a main or case cool gas solenoid? I know most LLS are a tonnage range for sporlan and line size. Would be great to see the wiring for the E2 to make it happen as well. Great videos cheers
I’m not exactly sore how he sized it. I know the biggest solenoid we have on that cool gas header is an Me09 and we installed an me19 for the supply line. That should be good for proper flow. I think if I go back to that store I’ll do a video showing the wiring and programming. Thanks for watching bro
Why not just do a hot gas assist with cool gas? (Hot gas) Pipe from after oil separator on discharge line into cool gas defrost header with a solenoid and check valve on receiver cool gas line to prevent back flow to receiver and set a sensor to open hot gas solenoid line whenever it needs it. Makes more sense to me that way. 🎉
@@rookierefrigeration4357 ya but when you pump down the liquid out of that header, that action will cool it even further, and its still cold, and will condense the new introduced warmer gas in the header, until it warms it up enough to stay a saturated gas.
havent worked on racks... but if the theroy to defrosting is to use other than hot gas to defrost and use something milder, a warm liquid would do well also I guess if you could store the excess liquid somewhere...or just mix a smaller amount of hot gas to temper it.
Awesome video. I'm glad there are other members of the 'Bonehead Mistake Club', I was getting lonely. Wouldn't a crankcase heater wrap achieve the same result? Keep it saturated vapor I mean?
MrRUKidddingMe probably. But you’d be adding unnecessary heat to the header. This fix was way more effective. Remember that latent heat deices the coil. Not sensible heat. So adding more heat won’t help. But you are correct, it probably would Jeep it from condensing , now you have to run electrical, controls, etc.,.... in
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😂 good shit... glad ur not a pansy and edit the video to try and act like a super tech!! Good shit. We all fuck up. Best way to learn is to fuck it up... won’t do it again!! Dig your videos brotha rock on 🤘
Seems like a bad solution to try and re engineer the system. It was working correctly for years, the it's not working so you re engineer it. Best to troubleshoot the issue and fix it.
Anyone who says they don't make mistakes, ain't working.. good video man I'm glad you figured out the problem
Wow great video this is really invaluable, we don’t do a lot of cool gas but either way extremely interesting to watch how you guys fixed what seems to be a design problem! Great job
I respect how you admit that you had no idea what you were doing! I’m at the same level right now!
That was engineering at its finest despite the mistake. I'm 3 and half years in on install doing ac in the UK, been following you hvacr vids hvac school and I don't think I've spent so much time watching everything you guys are doing. I've learned more watching your vids, repeating repeating everything. The quality of information now is awesome. Keep it up please. Every day is a learning day 👍
Thanks alot bro.
Always nice to work with someone who's able and willing to teach you something. Some people are just blessed with certain talents. Ive been in HVAC controls on the software side about 10 years. Schneider Continuum, Niagra, StruxureWare, Automated Logic, and some others but i always watch mechanical videos whenever i can. The more you know the more you make. Awesome explanation at the end! Great video
Thank you bro. I appreciate you watching
Do you work on Distech Controls?
Brilliant video mate, absolutely brilliant! I haven't worked on any racks with cool gas defrost, only hot. And a very effective repair. It takes a high quality tradesman to find that problem and execute and effective solution. Well done! I bet the ice was hard and slow forming. Looked like the rack wasn't new either, has probably been doing that for years. It's times like this I love our trade.
Thanks alot bro. Yeah this was definitely a call above my head. I’m glad I could learn from a very smart guy.
20:11 - The length of the presentation is in direct proportion to the depth of the explanation. Thank you for sharing your experience especially the drawing. And you’re right:this was a genius idea. This was an effective workaround; but, what explain the sudden pressure drop accross that cool gas valve in the first place (after the system was placed into service)? Would just replacing the valve have fixed the problem? When did that rack stop defrosting te cases? Surely, it wasn’t like that on original system installation?!
Oh man I'm gonna need training to understand.some guys were talented....cheers man
Sometimes i miss these more complex creative jobs. But then again, i have it pretty good where i'm at now.
At the moment you showed the error, it hit me right in the feels. We've all done stuff like that once or more :D.
It happens. Lol. Thanks for watching
I recently got to see cool gas defrost and it’s not extremely difficult just different and takes time to understand it so I definitely feel your pain haha
That rosebud tip rocks!!! Never had to do that but you gotta do what you gotta do to get it up and running
Yes it does. I just don’t like it for 3/4 or smaller.
Great Job explaining what’s going on rack systems.... So interesting, never get tired of it.... Will you’ll be adding a OLDR / DDR valve in the future.... I know that will have to be explained further to your audience, but you’re the man/ team for it.....
This is something you have to be lucky to be apart of, plus I Love the transparency when you made when you corrected the mistake....
Hey man it happens. Lol. This rack already has the Oldr valve installed. This was only done for the remote header.
@15:09 Are you sure those straps on the copper, all metal to metal, is a great idea?
On that subject, I was just following directions. 🤷♂️
i fully understood what you guys did, outstanding video brother!!!!
Learning a lot ,keep sharing man.
Great Job, And we all have made mistakes.
Thank you. I agree. Lol
Great video and explanation! Gotta love thinking ahead and solving problems when hard to see big picture on a rack system. I love working on them but unfortunately it’s maybe a once a week thing.
Yeah, this is definitely not something I would have found on my own. This guy I worked with is so freaking smart. Glad I get to work with him and learn some cool stuff.
That was great video and very interesting and something never seen before
Thank you. I can only take credit in helping the main dawg. But I learned from this job. 👍🏽
Good stuff!!! Keep em coming
Thank you Carlos.
Interesting vid no doubt. It's amazing the engineering behind it all and it seems complex but when you break it down to thermodynamics like you did at the end it had to work.
Pump out the header with the help of the compressor and control the solenoids with a bunch of relays I'm assuming for each individual case lol fun stuff.
Derrick en Buenos Aires yea sir. I agree. Everything is easy once you go into the basics.
I changed a compressor out on a rack on the wrong system once. That was fun.
Lmao. Really. That must be a nice talk afterwards
@@rookierefrigeration4357 Somehow the office spun it. I went up and down the ladder quite a few times to confirm i was on the right unit. I also wasn't the person who diagnosed it, but that is no excuse. Just curious, are you guys slow as balls right now? I am looking at my 2 week pay stub and have 38 hours. 2 weeks ago had 27 hours for two weeks. I am normally getting 80-120 hrs. Ive been on call all week and no calls at all.
Brooke Hill we aren’t slow. I’m still getting my 50ish a week. We doing good I think.
@@rookierefrigeration4357 That is good for you, others in this area are busy too. I don't know what is up with the company i work for. Last year we were slow, but i still got my 40.
I would imagine you had to set up a flex combiner to control the cool gas/ pump out solenoid? Sweet video. 🤘🤘
Yes flexible combiner on all remote heater cases. You are correct sir
love these videos!!! Thanks for the knowledge!!!
Thank you for watching bro. I appreciate it
Very nice !!! Great explanation.
I tried to. Lol. Thank you
How did you wire and program
Good stuff sir.
I’m use to hot gas defrost but same principle back in the day it was R502
Nice job. How did he wire the solenoids into the control system. Or did he wire a normally closed normally open relay in.
The relay output board has a point that’s NO NC. So once any of those cases call for defrost it just switches between the two solenoid. We used a flexible combiner I believe.
Thanks for posting man, interesting video to watch. Sounds like you initially installed it on the equalizing line lol. I've never heard of having to install a pumpout like this before, but for a remote header it totally makes sense.
I think I would've wanted to install something to limit the flow during pumpout. It will just be vapor and will probably be okay, but it would've been nice to put a cap tube or something on so it isnt so jolting when pumpout starts. Looks like what you could do though is just throttle that service valve where the pumpout line connects.
Yes, that’s initially where we installed it. The equalizing line. Lol. And when it pumps out it doesn’t do anything noticeable on the rack or compressor. It takes less than a min to pump out and is working great. Thanks for the input. If we have issues on the future I’ll think about throttling that angle valve. 👍🏽
I think it will work fine since there will always be flow either to the defrost or back to suction - there will be no time for the vapor to lay in the header and cool off to condense..
Yes sir. Thank you.
I know this was a while ago. But how was this programmed. Flex. Comb. Or sense control.
if i recall coolgas defrost was a hussmann thing-never had a problem with my old racks-hope this works for you
I guess stuff like this happened when you remodel, and add Or remove loads
Nice one blud . Hey , what's that magnetic tool you used to check the solenoid valve was working ? I need one of those , right now I use a bloody flat head screwdriver to see if it gets pulled in by the coil , or I'll dismount the coil and mount it back real quick to see if the valve closes and opens .
This tool would make my life easier !
It’s just a coil checker. You should be able to find it at any refrigeration supply house. We get them like candy. Lol.
@@rookierefrigeration4357 Yeah , the problem is our supply houses , at least where I live , don't seem to care about bringing in the good stuff .
You should see the rubbish they have on the shelves , it just blows my mind .
Even my meters I got on the internet .
I guess you guys over on the States get the real deal , lucky youz !
Would love to see how this was wired and programmed
I was going to show that but the video was already 20 min long. Lol
@@rookierefrigeration4357 No problem, absolutley love your videos man, keep them up, they are very educational
Me too! What control are you using here? Cpc? Microthermo?
Can i have some questions. First of why is it change state after that solenoid when calling for defrost? Restriction? Secondly the cool gas header is not part of the cooling cycle? Other word, only when one of the case call for defrost then this cool gas header is a common feed of the cool gas from receiver? Thank you very much
How would an alternative solution of putting a heating cable around the kool gas manifold compare to yours? I'm curious whether what you did is an industry standard (and any other way would be regarded as improper) or there are many solutions to choose.
From the point of view of simplicity (set-up of control signals, competences of technicians servicing the system in the future), reliability and initial cost the heating cable solution could be better. Operating cost should not be prohibitive as well (back-of-the-envelope calculation gave me the value of 35 W).
Most self regulating heat trace stops heating at 50 degrees - if the system was condensing in the header at 62 degrees the self regulating heat trace would have already turned off. If you didn't use self regulating heat trace you would have to install a power source and thermostats plus continue with paying for the electricity - the install they chose is basically free after the installation... and there are only two solenoids to troubleshoot in the event of a failure - in the event of a failure on a heat trace system you have to rebuild the entire job to replace a failed piece of heat trace.
@@jth1699 Thanks for the replay. After I gave it more thought I believe they chose the best solution not because it was cheaper to run but because (what was not told in the video) the liquid could collect not only in the manifold but also in supplying pipes. Heating header would not address this.
Case closed. Lesson learnt.
How long does that pump down solenoid stay energized?
Until a case calls for defrost
lol, at least you didn't cut open a pressurized line!
Yeah. True. Lol
But what caused the condensing?.
The temp in the space the remote header is in drops below the saturation of the cool gas. The cool gas inside that header sits there for almost 20 hours until the cases call for defrost, usually at midnight. So you are condensing all that vapor into a liquid because of the ambient temp.
Rookie Refrigeration so basically it’s because the time of the year so summer time will you keep it that way or put it back to factory specs?
Rookie Refrigeration May I ask what company u work for
@@Jsmooth596 I wouldn't think it would affect it if they left it that way.
i'm so confused I now have a headache lol . What was the name of the tool you had to check the solenoids Thanks
Lol. Here u go.
Rotation Tester and AC Detector for Circulating Pumps etc www.amazon.com/dp/B00VV6CLPO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_IMv0DbJ1NV5B8
Danfoss has an app for it to. Danfoss magnetic tool actually works
Hi sir. I want to learn about rack system would you direct me how best I can do that. Do you do personal training with a fee? Thank you very much
Quang Nguyen I don’t really know. Maybe there are books you can read. Sorry.
Rookie Refrigeration how you get your training?
Quang Nguyen I was thrown in and I had to learn.
Nice video bro .
Thank you 🤘🏼
Rookie Refrigeration keep the videos coming. I use them as a reference when I run service calls
The best part...?
That shit usually only happens at 2AM on Saturday to the On Call Tech or when it’s +120f on July 4th and half your truck is in the bird shit up on the roof of a C-Store.
LMAO. Hey it happens when it happens. But usually at the worst times 🤣🤣
If the system has been in for a while, why are you having problems now?
This is a recent remodel. Just caught it I guess
Interesting stuff!
I would’ve been extremely pissed lol crazy how u just laughed at it
Shit happens bro. All you can do is move forward and fix it. 🤣🤣
Cool video!
Thanks
How to you size a main or case cool gas solenoid? I know most LLS are a tonnage range for sporlan and line size. Would be great to see the wiring for the E2 to make it happen as well. Great videos cheers
I’m not exactly sore how he sized it. I know the biggest solenoid we have on that cool gas header is an Me09 and we installed an me19 for the supply line. That should be good for proper flow. I think if I go back to that store I’ll do a video showing the wiring and programming. Thanks for watching bro
Why not just do a hot gas assist with cool gas? (Hot gas) Pipe from after oil separator on discharge line into cool gas defrost header with a solenoid and check valve on receiver cool gas line to prevent back flow to receiver and set a sensor to open hot gas solenoid line whenever it needs it. Makes more sense to me that way. 🎉
Nice video rookie
Thanks bro
"Sometimes you just fuck up" great quote lol
why not just add a heater on the coolgas header to warm it up a bit if its that cold of an ambient.
hvac01453 run new electrical, electrician needed, etc ....
@@rookierefrigeration4357 ya but when you pump down the liquid out of that header, that action will cool it even further, and its still cold, and will condense the new introduced warmer gas in the header, until it warms it up enough to stay a saturated gas.
havent worked on racks... but if the theroy to defrosting is to use other than hot gas to defrost and use something milder, a warm liquid would do well also I guess if you could store the excess liquid somewhere...or just mix a smaller amount of hot gas to temper it.
Good video, thanks.
Están constantemente reparando.. son episodios evitables con preventivos.
Master
Not really bro but thank you
Hopefully it wasn’t a Friday
Awesome video.
I'm glad there are other members of the 'Bonehead Mistake Club', I was getting lonely.
Wouldn't a crankcase heater wrap achieve the same result? Keep it saturated vapor I mean?
MrRUKidddingMe probably. But you’d be adding unnecessary heat to the header. This fix was way more effective. Remember that latent heat deices the coil. Not sensible heat. So adding more heat won’t help.
But you are correct, it probably would Jeep it from condensing , now you have to run electrical, controls, etc.,.... in
@@rookierefrigeration4357 DUH... you're right of course. I didn't look deep enough into the problem (or my fix). Thanks again for a great channel
Why wouldn't you use hot gas to defrost instead of cool gas?but enjoyed video
coolgas off top of receiver if i remember correctly
Yes.
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#honeywellbuildingsolutions
#hbs2020
#hbssouthwest
😂 good shit... glad ur not a pansy and edit the video to try and act like a super tech!! Good shit. We all fuck up. Best way to learn is to fuck it up... won’t do it again!! Dig your videos brotha rock on 🤘
You have gone from repair to engineering . Step carefully .
Agreed. It was designed by a guy smarter than me. Lol
Rack systems look so confusing.
Break it down simple and it’s easy.
I see it's one of those put A to W and B to y LOL
Definitely shouldn't hear the solenoid hissing like that
Hey bud, if you don't screw SOMETHING up once in awhile you're not doing anything! Its GONNA happen
Lol. Very true. Thanks for watching.
Was it hot as balls in there lmao
No. It was good. The rack room has an exhaust fan.
Cold as hell? So is it really cold or hot. Jk 😂
LMAO. I get it. 🤣
Seems like a bad solution to try and re engineer the system. It was working correctly for years, the it's not working so you re engineer it. Best to troubleshoot the issue and fix it.
Thump - not working correctly for years. This was after the remodel.
@@rookierefrigeration4357 Ahh, my bad. I didn't realize the back story.
I hope it's working okay now.
We haven’t been back since. So I imagine it’s ok. Lol. Thanks for watching. And thank Up for your input.
Para, La próxima deben de hacer un video en español porque la mayoría somos latinos.