MASTER CLASS of Orc vs NE - How does FoCuS play against Elf? - Grubby
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- This is interesting! We're taking a look at a replay between FoCuS, and RazerMoon, an opponent I have faced very recently, when trying my Witch Doctor scouting strategy.
The matchup is identical, as are the starting heroes. Let's see if the Korean player can win where I have lost!
How does FoCuS play against Elf? (Live on 14-February-2024)
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26:04 that's a declaration, "i would rather k8ll it with snakes than with my hands"
Grubby would have used 8 peons hehe
Amazing Bladestorm! So satisfying to see Bladestrom not only be useful but do work.
There's something really fun about seeing the heroes get lvl 6 to use their ults.
Yeah but tping in and out is ratty i just can't respect it.
I can only conclude that Razermoon was choking towards end. So many bad decisions that snowballed. But I guess we get to see how much more of a chance Orc has if NE doesn't have manaburn.
I absolutely love your Master Class videos, it doesn't only help understand game mechanics of WC3, but other games too. Can't wait to see more!
New Crystal Ball seems like a decent early game item vs NE
The way to beat Elf is by playing Undead.🤣I will never forget that game between Moon and Happy at the DAOW tournament when Moon killed both of Happy's heroes, had a 20 food army size advantage and was 2 bases Vs only 1 for Happy, and yet Happy *still* won. That was 100% bullshit.
The fanboys were spazing "Happy, OMG, what a god!" They missed the point completely. The point is that, in a properly balanced game, you should not be able to come back *no matter what you do* .When your opponent has outplyayed you so badly up to that point that he has managed to secure *all* advantages over you, you should not be able to recover no matter what you do. There is no amount of "micro", or "tactical decisions" that should allow you to recover and win when opponent has killed all your heroes, has a 20 food larger army, higher level heroes and is mining from 2 bases while you are mining from 1. That Happy simply rebought his heroes at tavern, used his remaining gold to make a few statues and went on to kill all of Moon's army and heroes is BS. It is *imbalance* . Period.
There are 2 matchups in WC3 that are *horrible* .Not just bad, but horrible. Those are Orc Vs Elf favoring Elf, and Elf Vs UD favoring UD. Orc Vs UD is also UD-favored and hard for Orc nowadays, but at least Orc still has a chance of winning if the Orc has Blade and gets lucky with items, or hits a perfect timed push with FS + SH + wyverns. It's tough and UD-favored, but still winnable. But Orc Vs Elf for the Orc to win he has to play flawlessly and the Elf needs to make a big mistake. Even if Orc plays flawlessly but Elf makes a lot of little mistakes but no big mistake, there is no chance for the Orc to win.
The only 2 decent/good matchups are Orc Vs Human and Human Vs UD. Orc Vs Human was Orc favored two patches ago, but after HH nerf and peasant buff and Pala buff, it is either equal or slightly Human favored. The Human Vs UD matchup is equal or slightly Human favored.
If there's a most superior race, the pros would just use that race only in tournaments. I don't see a reason pros will purposefully choose an inferior option (as pros are supposed to predict it's inferior)
What a game!
Thanks for the content.
We love to see emotions, some saltyness is definitely welcomed. I'm a big Orc fan (terrible player) and felt your pain, NE feel OP but maybe I'm bias. The two Hero, double 'Staff of Tele', moon well heal then back to the fight full health/half manner in 25 seconds is too strong.
Personally, I don't agree. I don't like seeing Grubby salty. Part of what makes Grubby's content appealing for me is his positive attitude and focus on improving. I kind of cringe going into every video against an Elf because I know there will be saltiness, whether he wins or loses. Of course, he's only human, so I don't blame him for getting mad sometimes, but it does make the content less enjoyable for me
Did NE really have just 12 wisps for most of the game? I thought NE needs about 10 wisps on lumber therefore should be about 15-16 wisps
Maybe the overlay was inaccurate? Judging by the supply, it looked like he only had 9 wisps at one point, but being on two bases and producing dryads, that wouldn't make much sense
This was a very entertaining watch while listening to you, even if it clearly was Razer's to lose. He managed to come back from that early DH death and got to level 6 but due to keeping Immolation on (which definitely did work) used his ult less than he should've.
Try some Lyn's games vs some HU, NE too pls if you can, these tier 1 players has been on fire recently
I just wanted to make a note on this matchup, as I used to play Orc long ago in WC3, but I was never a top ranked player or anything.
But i found the best way to deal with DH was to run healing wave with SH after a FS open - though i think the first hero can, and maybe should be blade, I just wasn't a blade player - The idea with DH is that all 3 of his spells are defensive, keeping DH alive, or benefit when defending (immolation). So instead, you need to focus on winning fights against the army with army, minimising damage done to your units. Since your heroes are focused on winning fights, instead of disabling Heroes (without killing them), you should have more firepower on the ground.
This over time causes the DH to get more and more aggressive, forgoing basic survival tendancies - They need to do this to force you to address the elephant in the room, that being, you can't ignore DH forever - At some point, you must decide if the DH has gotten so disrespectful, that he both needs to be dealt with, and that he's vulnerable enough to kill, at that point, you focus every unit on killing him, hoping you made the call correctly.
This is pretty much shown in game here, yes, i understand, it looks stupid by the DH to be so aggressive, but you have to force that behaviour to happen in order to win.
Anyway, that's my 2cents experience on the matter.
The problem with FS opening, is that you would have no way to deal with the DH if he got to like lvl 4 and above. Undead and human both have their ways to deal with DH, but Orc really has no reliable way besides Blade.
The mana burn made a big diff in your games and Razer having a more fragile army here also makes it impossible to really compare and learn from other than keep shadow at safe distance even if it means less DPS and then you not only prevent feeding and get more XP gain but the healing helps you get better trades in battles. Of course this would require your opponent to play a fragile army like the one here in order to get the kills to begin with.
We love Grubs not cuz he was the best WC3 player in 1491 but because he is as real as can get. It is rare to find people like that, especially rare these days. Talking about how he describes his loss to razormoon.
I think to beat Razermoon you either timing attack with offensive shop before the bears or play to stalemate - force the game to keep going longer as long as you can, I feel like he's prone to making mistakes and strong early.
good cast!
I agree w grubby. i have no clue why immolation is used vs orc. Mana burn would have won him the game. It's honestly one of the best non summoning spells.
Grubby what if you go back to mass raider hit and run vs night elf? Expo and towers
Bladestorm does quick building damage
Feels like focus is better in meta and micro than razormoon who can't handle change in the middle of the game.
Focimus stopped doing spirit walkera for example.
tyvm grubby
Pro players in wc3 are maybe too complacent when they have the upper hand and just expect their opponent to fall over and they get sloppy. Or they simply werent tryung their best and wanted to give a chance to the opponent to make a fun game, kind of like big dog vs small dog example grubby gave a few videos back.
This game confirms that the orc vs ne matchup is imba as hell
I saw your loss Grubby. I relished in it just like the pit lord would. Your tears sustain me. Nah im sure youll get whoever it was back though. Since I'm typing here i might as well say i miss the days you did more outrageously creative strategies. Do you still take strat requests from twitch for $20.01?
Imagine not having orb of venom on a demon as a night elf
He was tier 2 because he was playing mass dryads strategy, so orb is not available
How fair is that game if Orc may win NE only if elf makes all possible mistakes?
Where is.more z to a lol or wc2 campaign?
this DH is burnt out. i still think immolation is broken since last buff , not that mana burn isn't.
Masterclass of opponent throwing the game xd. Gotta agree with your analysis during the game though, if demon had mana burn then there's really nothing you can do, as your heroes just become regular units with more hp and damage. One guy has heroes, the other doesn't, the math is pretty easy.
Never surrender
Z to A series?
never researched natures blessing lol
h8 elf
And we learned nothing.
Razermoon is very arrogant to be playing like this
a 30-20-10 second coldown per well migt balance NE
I think if NE uses a bunch of moonwells at once the regen should be slow but if they only use one or two it should be normal speed. It might help balance some of the abuse of teleporting back then juicing 5 at once to full hp/mana.
ggg
Gotcha, to win NE just outproduce them 2:1, 142 vs 77
Focus is now #3 on Elo rank. If only Focus somehow got the winner mentality vs Lyn, Happy, I mean if he managed to beat them even only once in a BO5(7), he'll reach the "best of the best" tier in no time.
"if only he got winner mentality" is such stupid thing to suggest being the solution
@@asoim889eh I just think he got choked way too easily vs those 2 matchup specifically. He scored a lot of vs others.
At the top level it pretty much is all mental. Serotonin, momentum and embracing pressure is the extra 2% that decides most games. @@asoim889
ne so op, that even with THIS hard winning still lost... Yep, orc need more buffs because reasons...
NE teleports the DH and the whole orc army camt kill it. That's what i call "the balance" 🤌