Secular or Islamic Republic of Pakistan? | Dil ki Baat 018
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Hello Folks! Welcome back to Dil ki Baat. In tonight's episode, I delve into the complexities of secularism versus the Islamic system, explore historical and contemporary perspectives and discuss the practical implications for governance in Pakistan.
00:00 About Dil ki Baat
04:13 Importance of Educated Discussions
07:11 Pakistan's Mix: Are we truly secular?
09:28 The Secular vs. Islamic Debate
10:28 Defining Secularism
11:19 Understanding the Islamic System
11:48 Westernized Secularism
12:56 The Difference Between the Two
13:26 Eastern Examples: Indonesia
14:25 How do I view it?
16:36 Religion in the States
18:37 What needs to be done?
19:05 Deep Dive into Theocracy
19:55 Can we appoint a final authority?
20:44 Historical Insights
21:16 The Governance System: How it should be?
23:49 Religion's Deregulation in Pakistan
25:07 Are we more secular than Islamic?
26:30 Practical Implications and Negative Discourse
30:10 The True Islamic System
32:40 Conclusion
Remember to subscribe and hit the bell icon so you don't miss out on the fantastic conversations headed your way!
#muzamilhasan #secularism #islamicstate #pakistan
Muzammil bhai we are students of IR in IIUI aur hamary group mein secular, Marxist, liberal as well as Believers and Islamist, Follwers of Javed Ahmed Ghamidi, Eng M. ali Mirza, And Dr Israr Ahmed aur hamari chai pe kia hi khobsorat aur intellectual discussion hoti hai aur iska maza hi kuch aur hai
IIUI?
@@manahil558islamabd islamic uni
I wish mery dost bhi political views pr baat krty aur mujhy enlighten krty knowledge sy
Konsa semester hy aur kha hoti hy discussion. I am software student
Harris real id se A
Sir, in a secular country everyone has the right to worship without any discrimination. Same applies to an Islamic country, anyone can worship according to their religion, and you cannot force anyone to except Islam or damage their books and places of worship or stop them for carrying out their religious activities. Our problem is that we (Muslims) have not even read our own book and followed maulvis, who failed to fulfil their purpose. Moreover, Islam presents us with the best political system. There was, is, and will never exit a model that is better than what Islam has presented.
we all know how much muslim respect it's minorities. And how much islamic Republic like Pakistan protect the non Muslims.
as a Muslim.. you feel bad when a person burn Qur'an but few months ago a hindu temple was demolished in Karachi Pakistan and a building complex is being made there.. hundreds of Christian home were destroyed ... I have seen Muslim in this comment section justify it why do you need temples in Pakistan..
In 2014 the organization, the All Pakistan Hindu Rights Movement (PHRM), published a survey report. The survey report found that 95% of the temples present in Pakistan since 1990 were destroyed or damaged. Out of the 428 places of worship, only 20 remained operational while 408 temples were converted either into commercial properties or into residential establishments. Out of the 20 temples, 11 were in Sindh, 4 in Punjab, 3 in Balochistan and 2 in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.
Babri Masjid demolition in India only hastened the pace of temple demolition across Pakistan and Bangladesh. Around 1,000 temples were alone targeted or destroyed in Pakistan and 2014 PHRM survey findings continue to reflect in 2021 as well. From 20 operational temples in 2014, Pakistan now only has 13 temples managed by ETPB.
we all know the love what you give non Muslim specially Christian.. . In 1947 Muslims threatened Christians that Pakistan was made for Muslims only and that if Christians wanted to stay there, they had to live a life of servitude and perform sanitation work.. "Sewer Cleaners Wanted in Pakistan: Only Christians Need Apply." Remember this add by pakistani army in 2020. Guess nothing much change here..
Dear brother,
I have started reading the Quran in effort to learn about my religion as much as possible. After watching hundreds of thousands of Islamic videos and reading the Quran myself, I have not found a single Ayat/verse or a hadith which commands Muslims to demolish the places of worship of other religions. I have mentioned above that the problem with modern Muslims is that they are too much dependent on maulvis and do not make the effort to read the translation of the Quran themselves and try to understand what it says.
You know that (On the Day of Judgement) the Messenger, peace be upon him, will say: "My Lord, my people had abandoned this Qur’an." Surah: 25, Verse: 30.
During the time of Caliph 'Umar certain Muslims had taken a piece of land belonging to a Jew. They constructed a mosque on it. 'Umar ordered the demolition of the mosque and the restoration of the land to the Jew. This event shows that I cannot take anyone land forcefully. The problem is that most of the Muslims are not even aware of this event, sad.
I am really sorry for whatever Muslims have done with the minorities in Pakistan or anywhere in the world. It is always hard to see videos of Muslim/Muslims treating non-Muslims horribly or reading comments containing the stories of non-Muslims suffered at the hand of Muslims. After seeing such videos, I am 110% certain that these people have not read a single a page of the Quran with translation and barely open the Quran for recitation.
Lastly, religious extremism does not exist amongst Muslims in Pakistan because it is a part of Islam, and this is what Islam teaches. No, they all have to deal with a lot of problems while living in Pakistan that their minds do not function as of those living in developed countries like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, USA, etc etc.
@@On.007 well I have read my bible and it has a very good passage.. 'do unto others what you want others to do unto you '
well it's hilarious when we see muslim pointing out isreal about the killing and Palestine or even Rohingaya or kashmir .. While the same won't say a word about the virtual annihilation by killing forced migration of non Muslim community in islamic country. Where the native population is refused to below 5% in some places below 1% like afghanistan Pakistan Indonesia even all meddle east. Jews in Muslim countries are in 3/4 digit..
If you want respect the respect others , the reality is Muslim treat its minorities like shit.. and they are real xenophobe.. and it's not just limited to specific country
The Taliban destroyed the tallest buddist didnt they..
Turkey convert hayia Sofia into a mosque again.. over 100 Christian churches have been converted to mosque just in turkey.. do you want me to give you the list..
Pakistan and Bangladesh has destroyed more than 1000 small and big temples.. churches
Have you ever asked why are the population of 56 Muslim countries, 39 have 88%+ Muslim population, of which 31 islamic majority country have 95%+ muslim population..
Why is it that it is impossible for non Muslim to live in these islamic country.. The Persian left for india..
The Afghanistan lost it Buddhist monastery
But how many islamic country condemn the virtual inhalation of sikh from afghanistan who were 6 mn in '71 .. And less than 100 left today.. Or the forced conversion and marriage of hindu and Christian under age girls in Pakistan.. The inhalation of Ahemidia in Pakistan Indonesia and kurdistani mens and thier girls turkey syria Iraq Iran.
Kurds have had a long history of discrimination perpetrated against them by the Turkish government. Massacres have periodically occurred against the Kurds since the establishment of the Republic of Turkey in 1923.
you feel the pain when you are in minority.. And demand equal rights and secularism.. But won't give it to non Muslim minority in Islamic countries.. even under shariya law as per dhimini in pact of umar..
You demand that you guys should be respected but where is the same respect when you distroy temples and churches and gurdwara and buddist sites..
You want others to not mix religion and politics.. but killed thousands in blaplhamy laws...
Muhammed.. Dint he destroyed temples of hubal in mecca after war of bidr..
If Muhammed didn't respect others feeling why should we care about your..
Your muslim rulers and scholars have burnt libraries of ancient knowledge.. Your violent mob did it again last month ago in France.. And you are hurt by just one..
When gajnavi came to destroy somnaath he could have stopped by just looting the temple . As requested by the pundits.. But he didn't wanted to be just a looter he wanted to be an idol destroyer .. And you guys consider him your hero..
So if you guys didn't respect us why do you expect respect from us..
Islamic law in quran can never be apolitical or secular.. Because quranshreef isn't secular.. It give second class treatment for non Muslim
the overall attitude of islamic world.. That's hypocrisy of islamic world don't you feel
I'm sorry I still have not heard a single word of condemnation from any muslim..
May be they are afraid to be called khafir because they went against islamic ummah
@@On.007 gusse you didn't read the part where the temple of hubal and the 360 statues were destroyed to make mosque of Mecca madina
@@On.007I don't blame Muslims for the hate .. as individuals they are great..
But face it the teaching of islam.. give you a superiority complex over non Muslim.. hence you essentially don't find it odd or disgusting how non Muslim minorities are treated in Muslim countries..
I just can't emphaisis how amazing this series is,getting to know soo much about the topics that have never been talked about.and taught in schools.Getting my actual schooling here.Jazakallah muzamil bhai
What an episode 👌
یہ واقعی دل کی بات تھی❤
We agree with your opinion, Muzamill Hassan. May Allah give you more knowledge and bless you with barakah.
Yes , aside of the fact that he's implying that Malaysia or UAE are true islamic ( or closer to that) country Which isn't the case really. We need to call spade a spade,I have tons of respect for muzammil but we can't say those countries represent true islamic system because they show diversity very well and economically better etc etc. many things which are happening in UAE are very very unslamic. Islam doesn't allow that. Islam is progressive in different sense but it's not in the way we think about the term ' progressive ' - which allows everything and total freedom. Nah , allowing everything ( like UAE does in the name of entertainment) is counter productive and create problems. Islam doesn't want unnecessary problems to be created. So there are clear dos and don'ts in islamic system which we can't dismiss. Infact we should embrace that aspect of true islamic system
@@goals27 You're Right Bro
@@shazilwaqar Thanks
As usual, amazing content with respected delivery to the audience. I think we need more discussions of the sort, to sit across a table and decide our way of direction. Mixing dairh rupay ki secularism and Islamisation is bringing everything but progress. I too agree that after the 2020s, a sense of intellectual renaissance is slowly unfolding in Pakistan now, rising steadily in the upcoming days
2.4 million Pakistani Muslims have quit Islam and become atheists according to columnist Mr Orya Maqbool Jan…
Muzamil, you are doing a wonderful job of bridging the gaps between people having different POVs
Keep up the good work 🙌
Loving the series...dill ki baat. ❤
Unbiased Suggestion:
You should consider inviting Khalid Mahmood Abbasi to your podcast to discuss the topic of the country's system with him. He is a prominent Islamic scholar who also has a deep understanding of the secular system, so I believe this conversation will be incredibly insightful.
i also want Khalid sahb on your podcast
Yup 👍😊
+1
Same...
Bilkul
Muzamil please do a podcast with Qaisar Ahmad Raja. Mainly on this topic. Must do ❤
Are you a fan of Qaiser Ahmed Raja?
takeh for chutyapay ka islam bechee subko?
Yes him and raja Zia as well
Bhai tu raja ruje jaise neempagal ko sun k pagal ho chuka h.
@@sk-to5gk tum ne jiski dp.lagayi ha us SE pata chal rha h kon h pgl
You’re doing a good job. We all need to educate ourselves and take interest in such discussions that will ultimately generate a true value system with calm, intellectual, educated and smart individuals.
Thank you !
Now, this is getting interesting. Love you ho gya Muzamil bhai wada wada ❤ looking forward for further episodes
For me personally, understanding of islamic state and islamic system made lot easier by syed Abul Aala modudi.
Firstly appreciated Muzamil on this great intiative of intellectual topics.
When we discuss about islamic system on state level it's not about sects it's more about principles. My understanding it's not about sunni, shia, brelvi, deobandi or ahl e hadees, its more about islamic education system, it's about interest free banking system it's about islamic social system etc. when you set these basic principles on state level you won't have troubles in sect. And all sect are agreed on basic principles just like federal shariat court on interest free banking.
Some books of Syed abul aala modudi on this topics.
1. Tankeehat
2. Islami nizam e Zindagi aur is k bunyadi tasawaurat
3. Islami hakoomat kis tarhan qaim hoti hai
4. Islami riyasat
Zakat k system par aaj tak consensus nahi hoa. Triple talaq ya khula pr hr firqa apna fatwa deta ha jab k ye court aur state ki authority ha k wo kya qanon implement kry aur kya judgment dy.
Wirasat k mamly ma log apna firqa badal lety ha. Democracy ko mazhabi tabqa shirk kahta ha.
Ab pichay sood ko on principle khatm krny ka irada ha lekin koi alternative nahi dya gya system ko.
Mujy nahi samj aati wo konsy principles hy jis pr tmam firqo ka itefaq ha aur shariat k ein mutabiq ha.
@DanishAli-rm2ky You are talking childishly that if we take any initiative, there will be disagreement among people, wherever there are people, there will be disagreement, it is not surprising.
All sects of Pakistan have given 22 points to the government to implement the Islamic system. On which all sects of Pakistan agree. What is the excuse after that?
(If you want 22 points, I will paste them here.)
These questions arise on secularism if we bring secularism to Pakistan, which one should we take? We know that, wherever secularism has been imposed on the people, it has been enforced through bloodshed, so do you want bloodshed in Pakistan?
secularism comes in various forms and interpretations shaped by historical, cultural, and political contexts. How will you decide and get people to agree on what kind of secularism we want? It is a separate matter that the majority of Pakistan does not want this.
Great. And even if disagreement arises it can be solved and common ground can be found in majority of issues with discussions and debates and if not majority can decide. So some people making It look like it's not possible and because they don't want to discuss about islamic system or want its implementation they keep repeating that line ' oh whose version will be, there will be disagreements and problems '... As if problems don't occur otherwise and debates don't happen in other systems.
@@mrmuhammad11 Can you please give a link to the 22 points?
@@mrmuhammad11today millions of Pakistanis themselves run to live in secular countries..barring Afghanistan no Muslim country has implemented full sharia,even Saudi Arabia which gave Islam to the world has 5% atheists and 19% non religious people according to Gallup survey..educated Muslim countries tend to become secular while uneducated lean towards sharia…look at the plight of women in Afghanistan and Iran…
Hi Muzamill Hassan,
It's a humble request: please make one podcast with Qaiser Ahmad Raja on the Islamic System.
Jazakallah
@shazilwaqar i agree
The person that supports child Rapes
Highly Recommend
bht inteezar rehta hy apki video ka . Keep it up this series Dil ki Baat
cant wait for the next ep🙌
Awesome MashAllah, So true- An Islamic System needs to be robust and flexible enough with each era that it readily caters all needs of Muslims at local and global level. Stagnation of islamic thought is the reason of Muslim ummah's decline. We try finding old solutions for new problems! We cannot just look back and find all solutions, new models (economic, educational, political etc) need to be devised on islamic principles, not old methodologies. Elements of islamic system need to be selected from all ideologies of past and present, those elements which conform with deen ul islam principles, e.g. we cannot shun socialism altogether as you described coz Islamic state ought to be a welfare state and much more inshaaAllah, such a great effort!
A podcast with Qaiser Ahmad Raja And Sahil Adeem on Islamic System
the've already done, they are not qualified to create a system, just two people can't decide a nation's future. there should be more than that.
Wo donou 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
@@qadeerabfilms yes two people can't decide nation's future. But those two people have right to present their system.
Podcast with a monkey?
@@atifhameed-ic9hk as i said they already shared there views on eon podcast, you can check it out, that;s not the ultimate system we want, sahil adeem wants jung and Qaisar ahmad raja focused on madrassa
Very Amazing and Knowledgable content❣
Appreciated this initiative
State should not give patronage to any religion bcz in a state there live many people who profess different types of faith and religion... Religion is a personal matter and no one should impose particular faith over others.. Secular .
Why don't you leave Pakistan how can Pakistan be secular it cannot be....you want LGBT
We don’t want elites making moral rules for us
islamic republic you maderchudchiya if you want Secularism go to Canada
Bro I get your concern. But see, the difference is that Islam is not like any other Religion.
Islam is fundamentally considerate of Other religions. It is forbidden for a Muslim government to disturb or destroy the Religion and Religious symbols of other religions.
See examples of Hazrat Umar rebuilding the Temple Mount worship place for Jews. Salahuddin ayubbi allowing Christians to live peacefully after conquering Jerusalem.
And much more.
The problem here is that some people claim to be Muslims but they don't follow rules of Islam. They are Hypocritical and are calling for Allahs wrath.
@@fsu3328brother I get your concern but don't put allegations like that without first knowing full
Mashallah what a comprehensive analysis put together by you Muzammil! Agreed totally to majority of your opinions with an exception to a few ( i promise only a few 😂).
Islam as a state religion can not only solve all of the problems Pakistan is going through currently but shall also pave the way for it to be a model islamic country for the Ummah. A Theocratic state somehow also seems possible to me when majority of the Ulma can agree on basics, principalities and core values and leave the nitty gritties for the people to decide and act upon by making them capable enough through a systematic educational and intellectual change.
And yes Economics and Knowledge are the only way forward for this country.
Very enthusiastic and excited to see you have an intellectual discourse of this type with Sahil Adeem Bhai and Qaisar Ahmed Raja. Itll be a delight to these sore eyes. Please please a humble request 🥺
If Islam cannot solve the problems then can secularism solve all of them? If not then why did he mention only Islam as being unable to do so?
Thanks for sharing your opinion with us❤️
Thank you for this Muzamil Bahi! 🙏
To understand the Islamic system, you should invite Qaisar ahmed Raja on your podcast, he can give you a clear explanation about it and also inform you about its implementation.
Abe ja bhai
Jaa dafa ho
Qaiser Ahmed Raja is a fraud
Invite monkeys on podcast with humans?
Bhai if qaisar can explain then you as a follower can also explain. For example Please brief us about the process of electing the Ruler according to sharia.
You should do a portcast with Khalid Mehmood Abbasi or Qaiser Ahmed Raja
Both are monkeys
Podcast with🐒?
It still needs comprehension, detailed research, pioneering initiatives, examples in detail and futuristic approach too. Hope in next episodes you’ll be able to unlock all these things :)
Best one Muzammil. Same thoughts.
27:35 But we have 22 points of Ulama on which scholars from all the sects were agreed upon as the main points of Shariah Law that should be implemented on the state
Muzammil, this is a very logical and excellent analysis. I agree that Pakistan should be an Islamic state where the system is based solely on the laws of Allah, and minorities are given complete rights. As for the practicality and differences among sects, no sect opposes the idea of an Islamic system, the elimination of interest (riba), or the punishment for rapes. These are some basic fundamentals on which everyone agrees. Islam provides comprehensive practical implications that will never become obsolete. For example, the Islamic economic system does not seek to abolish private property, as was done by communism, nor does it prevent individuals from serving their self-interest. Instead, it tries to promote human brotherhood, socio-economic justice, and the well-being of all through an integrated role of moral values, market mechanisms, families, society, and good governance.
Additionally, I believe we need an intellectual revival. For this, we will need to establish around 100 institutions similar to Bayt al-Hikmah from the Islamic Golden Age. This revival will encompass science, technology, and our mindset.
This is a step towards a new age of discourse, and together, we can be the ones to initiate it.
Yes sir but everyone is following the same Quran and Sunnah. And in an "Islamic state" it is very bland to say k Quran ka nizam lain. But which version? That is the biggest issue in such a system.
@@MrAhmed-dx5hwWhich version, what does it mean? Lol. Islam is the one, there is no version of Islam, there is only one Qur'an, only one Sunnah.
This question arises on secularism that if we want to bring secularism, which one should we bring?
Secularism is an ambiguous concept that can refer to many ideas and policies.
💯. Beautiful written. Thanks for writing this comment.
One thing I would like to add is even though islam doesn't stop individuals growth in anyway, it emphasis and encourage collective growth of the society and Muslims. If in any instance, supposedly there is a situation which becomes like individual growth of one person Vs collective benefit , islamic system will decide in favour of collective benefit everyday. And that individual person might feel hard done by he has to let go of his immense growth for the sake all Muslims around him and Deen itself says He will be rewarded tremendously at the end so even he's not in loss and that's the beauty of islam
@@MrAhmed-dx5hw bro, sorry but that repeated argument doesn't wash anymore ' whose version it will be' - if anyone do his study and research he will know that majority of what contains islamic system doesn't have any disagreement of any sect. Some issues of disagreement can be decided with discussions among scholars and if still few remain, majority can set the rules without being too harsh on a minority. You can't use this argument to pretend islamic system isn't applicable in Pakistan or in any other place, we all know in secular system majority of the times majority choose and minority have to accept that and nobody has a problem with that but as soon as islamic system is discussed you start to have a problem with ' versions' and 'majority/minority ' issues . Don't do insincere arguments.
Thank you so much Muzammil. Your knowledge helped me gain more clarity.
Beautifully elaborate ❤❤❤
I agree with you, we need to have a proper societal and economic structure in place and act upon it for a certain period of time before we can move on to the discussions like secularism vs islamic laws, since that is not the biggest problem right now and will have no inpact if either of the system if fully or partially implemented. I think that we need to solve our core issues at state level which is economy and at societal level which is education so that an educated population which is relatively well off can then take part in the discussions like these to create a proper, permanent framework of the society and the state.
if "proper societal and economic structure" fix our problems like economics and education why we need a new system
@@atifhameed-ic9hk Yes, but the implementation of a new system starts from somewhere, it is an intricate process that is done carefully, step by step through proper planning. And for that to happen, the society needs to be relatively at peace, which happens if people are a bit well off economically and that obviously happens if you have skills which are gained through education.
@@AbdulaImran dear, To move forward, we need to define our direction by creating a new system. This will clarify our identity as an Islamic state or a secular one. The starting point of the system will shape our future and help us address core issues effectively. It will guide economic and educational. By establishing a clear system, we build a prosperous, cohesive society.
@@atifhameed-ic9hk I absolutely agree on the new system thing, obviously this system has absolutely failed and that's why there is even a need for a new system. But to create a new system, we must have a starting point, which we have to find from the existing system, since we can't create a new system out of nothingness, we first need to identify what sort of issues there are in our existing system before we define something new, since the new system needs to exist for upcoming years rather than being a temporary fix. This is what I think about this
@@AbdulaImran I agree that identifying problems is crucial, but I also believe that starting from the older system may introduce more challenges. While we don't have "nothingness," the emotions of people who desire change are significant. So, if we try to fix this problem with the existing system, it would only increase the hopelessness in the people who already want change.
Woah, this video actually gave me a new perspective on this topic. Excellent video Muzamil bhai.
Also, I highly recommend everyone to read "Islam and Politics" by mufti Taqi Usmani.
I will read
LOVED THIS
Amazing discussion, great way of discussing the topic
There should be no discussion between islamic OR secular… There should be a discussion HOW TO IMPLEMENT ISLAMIC SYSTEM!
What is Islamic system?
Haha ya bhi sahi hai...
Just for these politicians and such to use islam as a tool to stay in power as usual
Sahi bat he hum agar apne app ko musalman kehte hain to phir islam ke mudabiq he sab kuch karna chahye. Lekin narrow minded hone ke be apne nuksan hain.
@@ikhlaquechan7463 you want me to answer this question in comments? Instead of asking me, if you are serious about this question, then learn about it!
Brother you should do podcast with eon
yes
Very beautifully presented. Easy to absorb even for the layman.
No matter what our stances are, it is important to be able to realize the realities around the world. This comes when we expose ourselves to other societies/economies/countries. Travelling, reading, following a diverse range of people on your social media, watching content of diverse people, etc, this is what helps in increasing your critical thinking and getting out of the bubble of "i know everything".
Kudos to you for creating an environment where you engage in and encourage 'parhi likhi baatein'.
May Allah keep us guided in the right path.
Very good and unbiased explanation muzamil. ❤
Have a podcast with Qaiser Ahmed Raja.
With a monkey?😊
Whoever supporting islamic state of Pakistan i hope they will also support a hindu state of India and Han Chinese state and Jewish state of Israel ( a considerable population of israel is muslims )
I will support Hindu state of India and Jewish state of Israel if they are coming from majority of people and shouldn't percecutue any minority or innocent
We want our secular Pakistan and we hope every country is secular India,china,Russia, Brazil i mean every country on Earth
Religious freedom is one of the basic rights of a human being. These Islamists will never understand this. I am a christian in Pakistan and I am disgusted by what the country has become and what the people think of other minorities. I just want to escape.
@@bobbyeditz765I even though being a Muslim in Pakistan, feel the same way about these islamists and the extremism most of them end up promoting
There is a word called democracy if you ever heard, if majority of people voted in favor of a secular system in their countries, why would anyone have any problem with them and besides Islam ke ilawa dosre mazahib ka koi administrative system hai hi nahi bas ibadat han
Thank you muzzamil bhai
Very well summarised Muzamil
Lynching does not make a country religious.... Its your constitution that matters ..... Indian constitution does not follow any religion, only people follow religion.... While on the other hand Pakistani people follow religion and also Pakistan's constitution follows Islamic principles so India is sceular by constitution and Pakistan is Islamic by constitution..... Whether you believe believe it or not but even a single sentence in your constitution which gives priority to a particular religion can never be Secular.... Pakistan is not secular whether you believe it or not... And India is 100% secular whether you believe it or not..... Not a single sentence in our constitution gives priority to a particular religion..... Muslim can become PM of India according to Constitution while Non Muslim can not become PM of Pakistan by Pakistani constitution says everything about Non secular Pakistan.....
why you are interested in becoming a pm of pakistan there are post of governor cm, minister mayour post
@@masroorkhalil9655lol, you still can't hide the fact that pak is a biased state
@@masroorkhalil9655Why? A Pakistani citizen should have right to be a president irrespective of religion! That's why Islam can never be secular, Islam in itself is communal.
@masroorkhalil9655 Why he shouldn't be interested in PM?
@@mpqw
because it is a biggest responsibility and culture and public representation
Tbh I was thinking the same about you being a pro secular and an anti Islamic person.
The good news is you're not and are willing to show flexibility depending on the argumentation and the conclusion is ''Husn Zan rakhna chahiye apne bhaee k baray main.''
And I would request that aik podcast qaiser ahmed raja aur sahil adeem se kerein please.
agar wo secular hotay to ap kya kehtay?
@@rumi-boss
Agr hotay to phir bhi kuch na hota bs dil mai kdoort si peda ho jaati is par to ab insan qadir nhi kay isay khtm kr saky.
Thanks for this informative video...
Why non Muslim have to pay tax(jaziya) in Islamic country? Should muslim have to pay tax in non Muslim country?
Hi brother how are u I hope your fine . Non Muslim pay jizya because for there protection and other things like business tax and other things etc . Muslim pay tax in non Muslim country that's not jizya because jiyz is only taken in Muslim countries
@@Mr-HALAL-OFFICIALProtection from whom? Sir! And tax may should be paid just like muslim pay road tax, Income tax, house tax, GST etc . why a person pay tax because he is not muslim?
@@htripathi8523 Muslim also pay Zakat and it is not taken from non-muslim
They don't have to pay jiziya. When itmam e hujjat was completed and the truth was made clear to the people to the last degree, the disbelievers, who persisted in rebellion, were sentenced to death.
But ehl e kitab (Jews and Christians), who were not rebellious, rather they persisted to claim that they only believed in one God, and did not consider themselves polytheists were given this option to pay jiziya.
This was a matter of that time only. Nabi Pak PBUH k baad yeh kaam baad k anay walay insano ko krnay ki koi hedayt nhi di gaii.
Pakistan mei to wese hi non Muslim sai jizya Lena bnta hi NHI Islam ki roo se bhi dekhein kyunke Pakistan koi aisa mulk nhi hai Jo musalmanon ne koi non Muslims SE Jang krke hasil Kiya bhai😅😅
Riyasat e Madina ka manjan Mr Imran khan ne he baicha tha....
Pakistan ka matlab kya ? La ilaha illallah
Only Sharia Law for Pakistan ☪
Dude why most shias are secular????? It even goes against your fundamental beliefs .
Riysasat e Medina Kehna behtr hai bajaye secular Ka manjan baichna west, India ya certain element KO Khush krne k.lye.
And I am not a supporter of Imran khan or PTI - a party jokers from top to bottom.
Yeh konsi rayasat e madina the jahan nach gana sab horha tha ?? Mazhab k naam pe pagal banana humare syasat dano ka mashghala raha hai.. Imran khan shb bhe koe dodh k dhulay nhe !!
Puri qoum ko 2 manjan bechay ek rayasat e madina ka aur ek Ertugrul 😂
Khud sahab zaday establishment ki paidawar hen aur qoum ko haq aur batil sikha rhy hen lol...
Koe bataega T.L.P kis ne launch ki the ? Tha na mazhab ka manjan ?
@@NeutralJaanwar-cb4tn hilarious isn't it you fear or hate Modi BJP for Hindu rastra...😂😂😂
You said that if someone suggests implementing an interest-free system, then you'd ask that whether he's considered how it will impact others and how it will be implemented? Well, the vision (or the last step) always gets recognised first, then the previous steps and the first step is thought at the end when planning any work.
Hats off Muzammil 👍🏻
Muzamil brother, we want to see you with QAR.
7:28 Muzamil Bhai Did you know that Pakistan's constitution and laws restrict non-Muslims from holding high-level positions in government and state institutions?
Articles 2, 41, 91, and 260 enshrine Islam as the state religion, requiring key officials to be Muslim. Discriminatory laws and social biases further marginalize non-Muslim communities, limiting their representation and opportunities. Unfortunately, these barriers make it challenging for Pakistan to become a secular country, perpetuating inequality and exclusion. So how you can say's that Pakistan is actually a secular country????
Pakistan is not a secular country. It isn't an Islamic country either.
The reason why non-Muslims can't hold positions of policy making is because the policies of Pakistan have to made according to the Quran and Sunnah. Will they rule through Quran and Sunnah. Its like in a liberal country a communist cannot come into power as they have a different worldview.
A Pakistani could never understand Indian secularism and Pakistani secularism because the majority of the people in Pakistan are Muslims and Majority of Indians are Hindus..... Islam has rules written in Quran and if the majority of people follow that religion then it automatically becomes a Non secular state because majority of the people are Non secular... While in the case of India, Hinduism is not a rules based religion, no rules are written for Hindus to be followed, so if a country has Hinduism in majority then it can never be a religious country..... India is proper secular because majority people don't use a religion based on a book while Pakistan may not be a proper Islamic country but the fact is majority of the people follow a religion with a preset idea of religion so Pakistan can never be Secular like Hindus ...... Muzammil should come to India and see for himself what real Secularism looks like..... Just saying India is following Hindu ideology can never make India a religious country.... India ko samajna ek Muslim Pakistani k liye namumkin hai.....
The same is with india. Would you indians allow a muslim to be your prime minister?
@@mahmad8528 well our constitution does not say a Muslim can not become India's PM. While Pakistan's constitution says Non Muslim can not be Pakistan's PM. Constitution gives right to a citizen and our constitution is secular while Pakistan's Constitution is not secular......
@@wish-ld9te With population of 80% hindus how do you expect a muslim to be the PM. There is really no need for it to be in the constitution.
Thanks for spreading information
very VERY well said !
Sovereignty belongs to Allah alone. Anyone disagreeing, bring it on.
Pakistan ka matlab kya ? La ilaha illallah
I Agree with You, Only Sharia Law for Pakistan ☪
@@NeutralJaanwar-cb4tn Yes, then pakistan will become next afghanistan. Please let us minorities live in Peace.
@@NeutralJaanwar-cb4tn Religious freedom is one of the basic rights of a human being.
@@bobbyeditz765I am sunni Muslim and I feel you are right, it is better for Pakistan to be secular than to be a theocracy where the rulers would even use our religion to control people , it will hurt Islam in the long learn and there is a very good chance it will make people hate religion altogether
Is ka matlab kya hae asaan zuban mein btao..ye naara to bht acha hae lekin is ki state level pe implementation kya hae according to your understanding
One of the great podcasters in Pakistan
very informative great job sir❤
Appreciated 👍🏻
Respectedly, I don't agree with you ke g Pakistan ki Masjid main toh Negativity phelaayi ja Rahi hai jabke Saudia or Middle East main Spirituality sikhayi ja Rahi hai, jabke agar actual baat ki jaaye toh Pakistan ki masajid se Sada E Haq buland hoti hai or Saudi Arabia ki Masajid ka Imam Regulated hota hai Jo ke khud aapne maana.
Pakistani Aalim E Deen ya Imam apni Society ki Problems and Pakistan ki Ground Realities ko dekhte huwe hi logo tak ek lessonable speech deliver karta hai jabke Saudi Arabia main agar koi Aalim E Deen aisi Islamic Terms ki BAAT kare Jo ke Saudi State ke khilaaf ho toh use wese hi Dhar liya jata hai jese yahan pe Kuch kaali Vigos aati hain.
Ab agar baat ki jaaye Islamic State ki ke woh actually hai Kya toh I agree ke Pakistani State bilkul bhi Islamic Rules and Principles of Governance ko follow Nahin Karti but actually agar Sahaba ki Governance ko dekha jaaye toh wahan yeh nizaam hargiz Nahin tha ke g Jo cheezein State decide kare bus wahi religion hai jabke koi or agar ikhtelaaf kare toh use utha lo never aisa bilkul bhi Nahin huwa.
Jabke badqismati se Saudi Arabia main agar baat ki jaaye Religious Freedom ki toh woh na hone ke barabar hai or aap use acha keh Rahe hain? Actually agar baat ki jaaye Seculars ki toh woh toh har waqt Freedom Of Speech ka wird alaanpte rehte hain toh ab Saudia main kahan gayi FOS?
Lastly i'm happy to see you bro ke aap dono aspects share kr rahe hain and aapne disclaimer bhi diya ke main aql e kul Nahin hoon Kisi ko mujhse bhi koi ikhtelaaf ho sakta hai.
Golden era (Ummyyad Abbasid etc)of Islamic history was the fruit (result). We need to study the process how Muslims reached to that peak which starts from the time of struggle of Prophet Muhammad (SAW). So start from studying Seerah of Prohet Muhammad (SAW).
American allah will save mecca medina from shia iran
Bhai thy were Persians,now shia Iran..what has Pakistani Muslim got to do with Iranian history..they don’t even allow you to enter their country and you don’t even consider shia as Muslims..haha…just basking on borrowed laurels
We agree with your opinion, Muzamill Hassan. May Allah give you more knowledge
Muzammil bhai, love your content, and i am learning from you a lot from this series "dill ki baat", Jazakallah khair. I may be wrong but what I perceived from your conversations on this series is that being spiritual is most prevalent part of Islam which i do not agree on, but today on your definition of Islamic system, I think I may be wrong on perceiving that about you. Apart from that, I believe that all aspects of life, such as science, philosophy, economics, social matters and most importantly politics can managed by Islamic system and with which can yield utmost benefits to nation and its people. Also when Sahil Adeem is coming to TBT Podcast muzammil bhai.
29:57 Mughal period was tolerant😂 they destroyed sacred temples, beheaded Sikhs guru just because they didn't convert.
Go read some history
yes you are right do you know a tolerate state from history?
@@MuhammadUmar-dx3el no neither I boast
@@MuhammadUmar-dx3elno Indian king ever invaded any Muslim country in history
@@mumbaiatheist2384 brother those Muslims who invaded India were Muslims just by name they have nothing to do with Islam. by Muslim kings I mean mughals l, Mehmood ghaznavi, Muhammad d bin qasim and more
Mughals allowed non-muslims in their government bodies, how is that not tolerance and have you forgetten Mughal King Akbar? He was well known for his religious tolerance. He even went ahead and abolished the jizya tax for non-muslims. And where is India's religious tolerance, why don't you grant sikhs their own separate state. Why don't let muslims freely follow their religion.
Fact: Pakistan was built to provide a land where all religion should co-exist and live with each other that's why it wasn't Islamic republic of Pakistan till 1973.
True
Not entirly true for reference do study constitutions (3 diff) we had and struggle between different govts(civil nd mil) and constitution making assemblys in short even back then it was controversial topic e.g: Issue of qadianiat and sacking of Zafar ullah khan and others
Even if it had become Islamic state,their would have been freedom of Religion
Then why we take partitions from India??
Regardless of what the forefathers thought, my personal opinion is that the state should be Islamic. One should not base their identity on the beliefs of their forefathers rather use their own intellect.
nice discussion with valid points.
Whenever I come to your channel I feel happy that at least someone is touching upon these important topics then I see your subscribers and feel sad they ae really low, I want this to reach each and every Pakisani.
The golden period of Islam you are referring was a dark age for indigenous population like Zoroastrian in Iran or buddhist and Hindus in india
Where the hell are the qaisar raha bots coming from 😅
He wants attention from others for making his reaction videos to gain more subscribers on his channel by criticizing others, hence why there is so many of these bots you would see under many Pakistani TH-cam channels
True
True, I was thinking the same
He has been doing a pretty effective job and to the grassroot level for what he thinks is right .one might not like him but undermining such a committed person is a mistake particularly for those who consider him as an opponent.
I would like to maintain a healthy debate over here. The reason why you are seeing many people asking Muzammil to do a Podcast with Qaiser Ahmed Raja is because of QAR being an educated person. His views might not be perfect for you but that doesn't change the fact that QAR has done a lot. He has made discourses much easier.
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
مزمل بھائی آپ پشاور کب آرہے ہیں؟
Why Muzammil brother you open up a separate page or a group where everyone comes up on a certain topic to discuss the stuff. And you can provide a link to each of your video.
If Pakistan should be an Islamic state then there should be no problem with india being Hindutva state and all the West should recline to Christianity. That would be great idea, isn't?
And please also do a podcast with Sahil Adeem on speed of light and sound because he has a "Dil ki baat " on speed of sound. It will help Pakistan a lot.
why is Israel a jewish state then??
@@muhammadtallal3104 What have been sizzling there for months now because of their ideology?
@@hamzashah4779 its been sizzling for more than 75 years. What's your point?
@@muhammadtallal3104 Yep, but it intensified in last few months. Crux of the matter is that they have been in war for just a piece of land which they consider holy as per their perspective. There are obviously political issues underpinning this but it's actually Israel's ideological narrative which is the cause of fire. And it's fanned by Hamas time and again.
What's the problem with that? Do you think Western countries don't recognise themselves as having Christian heritage? Do you think Christian values don't shape the values of European societies? India is a Hindutva state and under the right wing they've made the most military, economic and political progress. They religious right wing of India has overlooked huge success. Should you discount their success from their ideology? If so then why connect out failure to our ideology or lack of?
Thanks for initiating the discussion muzammil. I am an agnostic atheist and these following are my concerns/fears from a future Islamic republic:
What would be the punishment of blasphemy?
Would i be allowed to change my religion in official documents to no religion?
Would there be apostate punishment?
Would i be allowed to buy and drink alcohol?
What would be the punishment of eating publicly in ramzan?
Can a I as non Muslim be a prime minister?
Would government demand me paying jazya i.e extra tax for my safety as non muslim?
I am a christian. Forget all other points. Just being able to work at higher positions at government level would be enough of a right for non muslims. But unfortunately these radical islamist will never let that happen. Pakistan should never become an islamic state or we will see the next afghanistan.
Dear Muzamil, Dont pay heed towards negative people and negative comments..Your thoughts are pragmatic, and useful for all pakistanis..we can see the sincerity behind those sentences..Please keep sharing your ideas cause your opinion is relatable and it really matters🤍
Good work❤
After more then 75 years if you are still confused if Pakistan is to be secular or to Shriat Based county.
Then it's mean you have been pranked by Your Creators in 1947 who didn't lay solid foundation for your future.
Making a homogeneous lslamic nation and then thinking about secularism it's absurd and l am amazed at so called intellectual absurdity.
Pakistan should be based on what the people believe
Kindly do something about the r_pe pandemic in rindia
@@Fundamental_Islam.
Why l have to do about it
I not the one doing it.
It's the government which should be concerned about that particular issue not me.
Yet you are so concerned about the identity of another country
A short answer to secularists, Pakistan will never be a secular state, try to make it secular as much as you like. Go on....
In which hole you are living brother, Pakistan is already a secular state. But people of Pakistan don't have secular values, nor Islamic😀...but as far as state is concerned it is a distorted version of secularism where no morals exist and corruption is a norm. Your short answer to seculars is not making any sense. You should thrive to make Pakistan an Islamic State and first step would be admitting its not Islamic
Pakistan was created secular, is secular unofficially and will 100% become secular in the future. Cry in denial 😂😂
Sindh will always be secular. Proud to Sindhi.
That means Pakistan would neber become prosperous
Brother you speak my mind.
Well said 👏🙌🌟🌟
First see the shape of economy of turkey and inflation which is more than 55% Malaysia was never an Islamic country it became recently because the overbreeding problem muslims have and slowly becoming radical, same with Indonesia.
True
Janab ap aik galti kar rhy nationalism main kabi bhi islami nizam nhi aa sakhta islami nizam ky leye sb muslim ko aik he land pe hona zaroori hai warna Afghanistan wali imarat tu aay gyi lakin khilafat nhi is leye islam main nationalism nhi
Sahi kaha
An intelligent discussion which is genuinely required for new generation at least
You the man!
You have invited many secular and liberal guests on your podcast but haven't featured any Islamic speakers to discuss the Islamic system. Why is that?
Sir please watch Asad Zaman’s podcast on Islamic Financial Systems as well as Shershah’s episode on evolution of Islamic civilization over the last 1000 years. Both are available on the channel.
Can we get sahil adeem and qiaser ahmed raja on islamic system
@@TBTGO Sure I'll watch that. Thanks
@@crazyoladno
@@BilluDon420 Why
behtreen
Qaisar Ahmed raja
He is just a garbage
Person,
Bus behty ganga Mai haat
Dhony ka hunar ata hai
What about that monkey?
lol😂
@@cheesesticksteaice5025 apne baap ko monkey nahi bolte, paida kiya tha tujhe
😅😅😅😅
Pehli chiz sir ap jin Islamic nizam ki bt kr rhe hen wo aaenge to shayad zada acha nhi rhe Lekin zara Ap (swa) k nizam k according chala jay to sb acha hoga.
Or second chiz thk bht se log is chiz k lie agree nhi honge qk logo ka lifestyle change hogaya ha ab bht Lekin ye bbi compulsory nhi k ya to islamic ho ha secular dono ko maintain barabar rkh kr bhi country chl skti ha or is trhn har chiz ma bht achi ho skti.
But abbi hme sb se important apne education pr km krna ha or iska mtlb ue nhi nust literacy rate zada krna ha achi or equal education bhi compulsory ho.
Or sb se pehle education system hi change ho jo chl rha ha ratta ratta usse bacho ko koi faida nhi hona just time or bacho ki ability zaya ho rhi ha.
Wonderful Discussion ❤❤❤
sir why you removed the podcast with usman asif from your channel?
From last 1400, thousands of Islamic Scholars wrote multiple Hadiths, Tafasirs, translations and interpretations to understands One Books, but still fail to understand. Doubts and Confusions are growing day by day. This is happening bcz that book is vague, outdated and impractical.
Every Scholar has its own interpretations and consider other as Kaffir, Gumrah, Jahannami. Thats why many Firqas came out over the period of time.
Thats why Adam Seeker, Zafar Heretics like people becoming popular in youth in Pakistan. Kfss
LoL Believers are happy and content with their Lord. Alhamdulillah! Only hypocrites get doubt in their faith due to their sins.
Beautiful, Muzamil you've explained it very nicely & I agree with a lot of things & disagree with a few things as well. We have to admit that we're not living in an Islamic State (keeping in mind that it'll be dangerous as it'll disturb the majority of the nation) but we've to admit it so that we can change it after that. & Yes, Education & Commerce are a must, to go even a step further in achieving an Islamic State.
I personally believe that both the wings need to sit down together and formulate the necessities which both want. In Old islamic times, even at times of civil wars, armies used to unite against foreign invasions. So we should unite and see what both bring to the table.
@@QuickLit-0401
Ifwe admit that this is not islamic state then there will be adverse reaction by religious groups and will end up with ideologies of like of taliban and ISKP in society. And they will get sympathy and support by majority of people who would want "islamic system".
@@DanishAli-rm2ky I haven't seen a molvi yet who states that this is an islamic state. They themselves state that Rule of Law isn't being followed here.
Before any step is taken, we must ensure that everyone has knowledge of the both sides, after that if they still state that Islamic system is necessary, than that's a different story.
But Islamic, inherently isn't anything bad, it doesn't hinder progress of society in any sort of way, shape or form.
Very interesting points. A pre-requisite to take this discussion further requires critical thinking. Its true that people who say they want Islamic system, most likey have no clue what it is. A lot of research and study is required.
*17:18** bharat me minority itne khatre me h ki inki abadi lagatar badh rahi h, wahi Pakistan me minority itni safe h ki inki abadi lagatar kam ho Rahi h 😂 dono ko compare mat Karo Bhai, hindu to hamesha hi non Hindus ko kafir bolta h or Muslim to non Muslim ka bahut hi samman karta h* 😂😂😂
Choose one :
Want Pakistan to be Islamic or Want Pakistan to be peaceful and it's people to be happy no matter their religion.
Islamic system is not the way to life if it was Afghanistan would be the most developed and happiest nation on earth.
Amazing 👍
Muzammil bhai really going towards the "Deen" Mashallah.
May Allah bless you with high intelligence
HarrahmKhor TH-camr Ne Jiziya Tax Ko Secular Aur Tolerant Bana Diya 😂
There was zero Hindu Muslim confrontation on the basis of religion in whole period of 332 years of Mughal Empire in India.
Bhai ye tum pakistan studies mein padhte ho ya islamiyat mein....????
Jb ek ghar mein har hafte ladai hoti hee hai toh itne crore logo mein ladai nhi hogi ??? Aur vo bhi 330 yrs ke liye
@@Nitish.Singhal he means there was no riot reported that whole era....
Like your M.0di conducted Gujarat Ri0ts
@@afrazamjad1644 😂😂 riot reported....??
Are you for real ? Report nhi hua toh crime hua hee nhi....
Imran khan ki FIR nhi huyi mtlb usko goli nhi lagi??
Wow... What a logic
@@Nitish.Singhal By saying reported I meant witnessed.... Historically the British with their Divide and Rule Policy introduced this seed in the subcontinent.....
And BJP is successfully continuing the legacy
@@afrazamjad1644 Divide ka implementation kisine kara muslims ne....
Bjp ne partition karwaya tha ya jinnah ne.... ??
please make the bass a lill bit high, coz its v sharp
i love your content please keep it up