This is arguably the best piece of crossbow advice on the internet. Every single person considering buying a crossbow needs to see his. And anyone who has a crossbow and is bent on speed, needs to watch this too...especially the ladder. It's no different than someone who reloads ammunition. You wouldn't add 30% more powder to your .308 cartridge to gain more speed would you? Of course not, something would break (or blowup) Use heavier bolts and never worry about your limbs cracking. That's the simple answer
As a one time traditional archer and now at 77 years old hunting with a crossbow I'm with you 100%. My 12 year old Excalibur Exocet 200 is shooting about 300 fps and still putting the whitetails down. Brass inserts and arrow weight tubes will bring up the weight of a carbon arrow/bolt - needn't invest in new arrows.
In my experience if the cams are out of timing a little I get vibration. Killer instinct has cam timing marks but my hypertac 420 don’t and 6 shots I’m a 1/8 to the right of the barrel at the knock point on the strings serving . My hypertac don’t have came position lines so I have no idea where the belong . 6- 12 shots seems the reach string and cable stretch and needs to be timed and tuned . I haven’t broke any limbs yet on my 400+ fps bows . Noticed rail lube keeps friction heat from frying the string and serving. I’m trying to find cam position specs for Barnett hypertac 420 , haven’t found any yet .
This logic makes complete sense. As an archery coach, I have seen limb failures on conventional bows because of under-spined arrows. The frustrating thing is that I have yet to find a spine charts for crossbow bolts. This needs to change.
Arrow flex practically a non-issue with crossbows. Crossbow arrow shafts are much shorter (2/3 the length of ordinary arrows) and have substantially thicker walls (30 to 40 thousandths and sometimes thicker) to resist the incredible launch forces produced by a crossbow. On the other hand, controlling arrow flex is critical to obtaining the optimum performance out of a vertical bow. Hence vertical archers concern themselves with the static spine if their arrows, while crossbow archers need not do so.
I very much agree that the heavier bolts is the right way to go. Crossbow hunters need to buy a Crossbow with a speed dial scope on it. Mine came with a fixed lines. So I have to spend more money for the range scope. The Ranch Fairy is very helpful for us that want to shoot a crossbow. Thanks for your video.
For me, the way to go is Gold Tip's Nitro Pro (+-0.001"), 13.9gpi. They come with 60grs brass inserts, flat and moon alum nocks, and with a 100grs tip and 2" HP Vanetec vanes you are looking at 512grs bolt. Bulletproof, thickwalled, undestructable and straight carbon shaft. 🙌🏼 From a Darton 380fps rated crossbow they clock 333fps and will support a very long bow lifetime.
I am still researching crossbows information. I have never shot one, let alone a bow. I'm the guy that looks at the box and says the bigger the number, the better it must be! I know nothing about grain weight, but thought it must translate somewhere to rifle gains. I fealt like my knowledge of crossbows was as deep as a wet spot on the cement. This video probably saved me a tremendous amount of heartache and frustration. You did an amazing job explaining your point, that even I understood it! Thank you very much for taking the time to put this video together. I now feel like my depth of knowledge is up to a puddle. Lol. But understanding speed vs. weight and depth of impact. And the energy to send the bolt down range. This changes everything i was thinking! Thank you so much for the help.
The first thing I did when I got my KI Fierce 405 was purchase 100 grain inserts and built my own bolts. It made a huge difference from stock bolts. The penetration doubled and it actually quieted everything down too!
Can't agree more that lighter bolts are breaking limbs!! Don't forget though that some people use those decocking bolts that are light weight also. So be aware of what you are using 😉
This is a great video. Even at 330 fps you're still faster than the best compounds and you don't have to worry about your form when you shoot, I don't see a downside.
I shoot an #80 Hoyt compound bow using 550grain arrows (200 grain field points). I chronod the velocity 288 fps, when I shot out to 100 yards at archery targets sometimes I hit a softer spot and arrow almost stops on fletchings. I can't imagine how crazy 330 fps would be on same arrow I'm using.
I just learned more about crossbows in this one video than I have in my entire life. Heavier bolt = same kinetic force lower velocity less shock force on the limbs If only the 9mm versus 45ACP debate was this easy to solve!
This is great info as I have come across many people complaining about broken limbs...and noticed there was no sensible reason OTHER then shooting way too light of bolts.
I thank you so much for posting this video,, 5 months ago I had been saying the exact same thing and even put it in out on several of the crossbow groups that I am a member of and the backlash that I got was unbelievable,, the love that I got was remarkable,, but the backlash left a real bad taste in my mouth,, I have since posted your video about why crossbow limbs breaking to those sites,,, And again I thank you,,, you confirmed everything that I have already said as far as the speed,, as far as the weight of the bolts,, as far as Penetration and momentum,, EVERYTHING
Yes you have!! You were nicer than myself... 3 of "me" got booted and blocked LMAO You always make vaild points. Now, go tell them momentum is more important than kinetic energy for me!
I did same thing on killer instinct group and some agreed and the backlash was way more. Seems some ppl try to help others but can't get it in there heads. They want speed and it's someone else's fault and always a buddy's bow that blew up. Love the video
Absolutely agree. Arrow weight improves energy, reduces sound and increases penetration. If you watch high speed footage of a 375 fps (at the chronograph not at the deer)crossbow arrow contacting a deer that is 40 yards from the hunter you will see the deer is able to drop down a few inches before the arrow connects with the deer. Even with the highest speed crossbows of at or near 500 fps the deer will still be able to drop a few inches at 50 yards. Until we can get our arrows to go much much faster we have to be ethical when we pull that trigger and be realistic about how far we should shoot at an animal. My Scorpyd (With low amount of crosswind) is very fast and rifle accurate to 100 yards but I would never shoot at a deer this far away. My max imposed range if all conditions are perfect with a calm deer is 60 yards. Most of my shots are 45 yards or less
I am going to share this video in many crossbow groups I am in if you don’t mind. Because myself and many other crossbowmen have been saying and your video explains it really really well. Thank you.
Eleven years ago I got a Ten Point Shadow Ultralite, 350fps with the Easton Aluminum Arrows 100gr points that came with it. Used that setup for the first year. Thought about everything after the season, and used my compound as a reference which didn't add up. I bought new arrows from Easton with metal inserts, the Ten Points were plastic, and changed the broadhead to 125gr with no problems, just slowed the speed down to about 320fps. Well the crossbow is wearing out after the 11 years of use. but I never had a limb issue. Got a new 415fps crossbow this year, came with some 290gr carbon arrows and 100gr field tips, 390gr total weight did not add up for me. I actually upgraded to the Piledriver bolts with a 125gr broadhead, haven't chronographed the speed though. Only 3 weeks of bow season left in PA, but I do plan to make those bolts 500gr or maybe a little more for next years bow season. You may lose a little bit of speed, but you are correct about the mass of the arrow.
Thanks for putting this video out with the info! Haven’t personally encountered limbs breaking yet but my friends and family who use them have this conversation a lot. I also have a heavy bolt maker that hits a real sweet spot - Wyvern Creations out of NH. They sell custom (but very reasonably priced!) bolts including ones usable with TenPoint/WickedRidge bows and their ridiculous proprietary nock system. They can also do nice touches like adding illuminated nocks straight from the shop. A pack of 6 heavy bolts (500gr w/ 100gr tip I believe) start at $70-$80ish.
I like the Goldtip nitro bolts in my Tenpoint Turbo M1 380....440 grn w/ a100gr head. I use 125gr for an increase in f.o.c. Chrony verified 360 fps with the heavier broad heads but are insanely accurate AND the bonus...it quiets the bow with the heavier bolts. A win..win all around.
Good insight....speed is not always the best and viable option....shot placement is most important. I have seen compound bows push superlight arrows and damn if they dont bend and wiggle off the rest. One does not want to break a limb on a cross or compound bow when its charged. Give up some speed add weight and thump your target with added energy. Safe shooting.
Mine broke and they said they don’t sell that crossbow anymore and they would give me a discount on the parts. Doesn’t sound like a lifetime warranty to me.
Just bought a Wicked Ridge Invader 400 rated at 400fps last month The Easton bolts that came with it are xx75 aluminum 435 grain just weighed my hunting setup with a muzzy 100 broadhead weight 455 with an indexing washer installed to get proper vane to broadhead blade alignment my bow chronographs at 365 fps with this setup. Got a big doe and a 12 point wall hanger so far this year well pleased with my setup...that said never found the two kill bolts Lord only know how far they went after pass though maybe after the leaves fall this winter..
I have an Excalibur MAG340 and the Bulldog 440. I use the Dragon Claw from Wyverns creations with a 100GN field point at 413GN’s or the stock 16.5” Proflight bolts weighing in at 250GN with a 150GN field point for a 413GN with lumenok. I haven’t had any issues with the MAG340 but I’ve had the Bulldog 440 limbs splinter on me once using a 350GN Proflight bolt. I prefer the Dragon Claws for both crossbow’s.
Yes, both my limbs were cracked today after replacing the cable..did we notice..one was splintering and the other honestly cracked..3 yrs old..it wasn't an expensive crossbow..but got the job done..
Wow that is probably the best explanation I heard yet and it is 100% true Natalie that faster arrow do you stabilizes quicker and longer distances the heavier arrow penetrates better and flies better and does quiet down the boat and it removes a considerable amount of vibration I have noticed it I’ve been playing with those now for about 15 years playing with them not taking it serious and in the last few years I’ve come to realize they heavier the arrow or the heavier the book the better the flight the better the accuracy
I love and use the Pile Drivers and a 125 grain tip in mine. I also use Carbon Express arrows in my vertical bow and personally think they are the best with Easton being a close second. Great video!
Awesome... Now i know. This video helped out tremendously brother👍 Just gotta K I 405. Shot it 6 times. Then seen all the videoes of em cracking. Man you saved my bow now with your knowledge about the bolts. I so appreciate it brother👍🇺🇲 I'll get a biggen now here in Ky thanks to you. And hopefully itll stay together
Excellent video! A couple years ago I bought a Killer Instinct ripper 415 and it blew up on me three shots into sighting it in. Scariest damn thing I've ever had happen to me with a bow, crossbow, or rifle. I ended up returning what was left of it and buying an Excalibur 308 Short. Speed doesn't kill, practice, dedication to scouting, and time in the field does. I'll never buy a "bargain" priced bow again and I'll continue to run my heavier bolts just like I run heavy high FOC arrows with my recurve bow.
I concur with this. It would also be interesting to see hard data on bolt weights and failures. One could isolate brands as not become a marketing ploy. Thanks for the vid.
A few years ago I bought my first crossbow which was a Parker Blackhawk or Thunderhawk something like that and after a few weeks of shooting it I noticed a crack in the limb in my mind it was already there when I put it together but who knows I took it back to the store where it was shipped to and put a few hundred dollars with it and got an Excalibur micro axe 340 and I've had no problems outta the limbs, knock on wood. But the vibration when I shot it a few times would make the bolt loose holding it together, so I put some lock tight on it and had no problems so far. It's a budget bow like you were talking about, I got it for 550$ in 2019 and the drawl weight is a beast at 275lbs.
IMO alot of people don't even understand what a dry fire can do to their first Xbow. I'm not an expert but after dry fire, string, serving and rail maintenance is the king of Xbow hunting.
Thanks for the video! Just bought a Wicked Ridge 360 (AFTER watching your video)... only used the bolts the package came with at 435 grain. Thought I was good to go using the bolts the manufacturer included.... apparently not, the limb already splintered after 40 shots. Scheels replaced it on spot since it's only been 22 days since buying from them. I've just purchased the pile drivers after watching your video again (should have done in the first place). Hoping that helps this next crossbow survive a bit longer. Thanks again for posting your knowledge!
Make sure ya get the alpha knocks brother. My wicked ridge 360 has to use them according to the manufacturer. I ordered a bunch of bolts when I ordered my bow then had to send them back when I read the instructions. BEST bow for the money. Solid choice bro!
For those using Excalibur’s that are using older models that are the wide limbs the proflights are amazing. But you are at 2x the draw weight and the 400 grains is perfect for those models. They are not okay to use on the modern line crossbows you have to get them to 2x the draw weight.
I have the ripper 415, my setup is a piledriver bolt (360 grains) with a 100 grain field point/broadhead, for 460 grains. My buddy shot a deer in the shoulder at 35 yds. with the same bolt I use and and half the bolt was sticking out the other side of the shoulder, and his crossbow is rated at 390 fps. Don't be afraid of results with heavier bolts.
The underweight arrow issue should come as no surprise. Many of the faster crossbows on the market, especially the Excalibur models, tend to have titanic draw weights and very long power strokes (think Matrix series), which combines to produce an absurd amount of stored energy in the limbs. Then they give you toothpicks to shoot so you can compete with the speeds of compound crossbows. Problem is, the bolt only ends up absorbing something like 60% of the energy unleashed by the limbs. The remaining 40% of the energy ends up shaking the living daylights out of the limbs when the string hits brace position upon release. Compound crossbows are less susceptible to this kind of damage than recurve crossbows because they can shoot lighter arrows more efficiently thanks to cams, cables, and parallel limb arrangement. I'd wager that the optimal arrow for a ~300 lbf recurve crossbow would probably weigh 1000-1500 grains. The only way you're gonna get a crossbow arrow that heavy while retaining aerodynamic stability is by inserting a heavy metal rod (brass, carbide, or even tungsten) behind the arrow point just barely smaller than the ID of the shaft. Most compound crossbows can easily handle the lightweight arrows they are shipped with, as they are still 90+% efficient at delivering the energy to the arrow. However something like the Ravin crossbows could probably use a heavier arrow than stock (maybe 500+ grain) because of their higher draw weights.
hello I have an excalibur micro 340 270lbs, recurve they gave to me 351 grains arrows.... i am thinking to add some weight to them to have 400 or even 450 grains arrow at 400 grains i ll have arround 325 fps and at 450 grains 302 fps what do you sugest in order to maintain a resonable hunting arrow speed?
Piledrivers are great bolts. However, just know weight listed for piledrivers INCLUDE a 100 grain tip. This is straight from their product description: “Weight: 442 grains. Diameter: 0.348". Straightness Tolerance: +/- 0.004 MAX. 6 pack. Note: Weight includes 100 grain field points. So if you’re shooting the 22” version with a 100 grain point, your total bolt weight is 479.
I’m happy with my PSE fang it shoots 390 feet per second I use 20 inch bolts with 100 grain broadheads. The problem I see with these strings snapping is the knock the moon knock is the safest because the string can not slip over it. thees newer style knocks don’t keep the arrow in line and allow the string to jump over the bolt causing the string to brake. They need to make them crossbows shot moon knocks only.
My son bought a KI 405. Limbs broke 20 some shots into his owning it. They replaced them under warranty . He went and bought some heavier " pile driver" arrows and good 2 go ever since. But it is noticeably slower.
I use Juggernauts. 22” bolt, out of the box is 520grains (w/100gr points)! I use 200gr heads so I’m at about 620. However, after about 30ish yards, they drop like rocks! So make sure you zero and check which of your reticles it’s hitting at, out past 30yds! They ARE a discontinued bolt from Carbon Express, replaced by the LIGHTER Piledrivers, but they can still be found on Ebay and I believe Amazon too. But they are starting to get more scarce. Just got a new box of 6 for $36 a couple weeks ago! If your into Ranch Fairy’s theories of heavy arrows and high FOC, you can’t beat these for an out of the box factory load!
Ive been on all forums and the one I see the most is Killer Instinct with broken limbs. Seen Barnett post 2 in 6 months. Killer Instinct every other post. You would figure KI would recommend a heavier bolt after seeing the problem but they don't because they know it wouldn't matter. Seen post on KI facebook people would use 500 grain + and still broke the limbs explain that because it was me and others using this band aid answer. So yes light bolts might have a small factor but KI just makes a cheap product. It is what it is....
I also see 3 times more killer instinct Crossbows being sold now , and a lot of the shooters are 1st year shooter , I believe that adds the higher numbers your seeing.
Excellent video FINALLY someone spesking the truth about crossbows Next I am expressing strictly MY OPINION but I also think the fact that many possibly most crossbow owners are not educated tge FACTS that it is absolutely mandatory and as to the how and why at set intervals of time and several times for every singke year they own any crossbow they must inspect thier crossbows and determine the brace hight is correct the cams are correctly timed and thier cam lean is as slight as can be achieved and A well tuned crossbow with absolute minimal cam lean and perfectly timed cams and correct brace hight combined with using arrows the total weight weight of which minimizes excessive linb fatigue will go a long way in maximizing the life expectancy of your crossbows limbs Additionally I believe most crossbow owners do not understand that crossbows because of thier inherently short power stroke are horribly inefficient in transmitting the stored power of the limbs and cams to the arrow Example is if your crossbow has an efficiency of say 55% and a DW of 280lbs the majority of the stored energy of a cocked crossbows limbs and cams will be re-directed back into the crossbow when released in an extreamly brief very violent expenditure of energy. The more out if tune your crossbow is and the lighter yiur arrows are the more magnified and detrimental this affect is to your crossbow I was completely oblivious to these facts until I decided to research crossbows because I was thinking of buying one and felt I absolutely must become as knowledgeable about maintaining them, how to change thier strings and cables and if necessary repairing them just lije I did with my compound vertical bows and firearms I own Quite frankly I was shocked on just how severely the forces exerted by firing a crossbow were on the crossbow itself. Made me realize I must become very well educated on how to constantly maintain any crossbow I buy to keep it in tune and in as clse to perfect working order by learning how to correctly inspect it and what to inspect to prevent a minor issue from escalating into a catastrophic failure Lastly I am absolutely sick beyond measure by bow hunters who dislike crossbows saying its the same as using a rifle this statement in of itself proves just how ignorant such people are about crossbows.
I also think it has a lot to do with with people shooting 20 or 30 or more arrows a week treating it like it’s a gun that you can just shoot and shoot, these are not compound bows once they’re signed in they’re good, I average shooting six arrows a year and that’s just too check my site make sure everything‘s good and then I put it away and wait for hunting season, but some people think they have to shoot them all the time so I think that has a lot to do with the limbs falling.
You are absolutely correct.A crossbow is not a compound either where you need a lot of practice to stay sharp.I’ve read where some people have shot like 1000 shots and more a year.What do they really think is gonna happen to those limbs ?!!! Right before the season starts I’ll make sure I’m good from 20 to 50 yards and leave it alone.After that , the only time it’s shot is when I’m shooting at a deer.One of the reasons I switched to a crossbow is because my shoulders aren’t what they used to be and can’t really do all that compound bow practice anymore.Hope a lot of people read your comment and my reply so they can understand not to overshoot their crossbows 👍
Easton 22" XX75 magnum. 375 gr out of the box. Add 100gr field point for 475gr goes through a straw bail at 15yds. with a Barnett XP400. Haven't cronied it.
“The bolts are too light”!! Amen!! I shoot a bolt that total weight is 525gr. Cuts like a hot knife thru butter. Way quieter. Deer don’t know what just passed they them!!🤣😂
Another tip that hasn't been brought up in the vid: Do NOT get a recurve crossbow. At least not a high poundage one. The advantage cams bring to the table is not only efficiency, but also distribution of stress on the limbs. When a compound crossbow is drawn the cams rotate, taking some strain off the limbs. Recurved limbs don't have this benefit, and with the short limbs crossbows have they WILL split when drawn. Don't think your Excalibur will stay intact just because it did so in the archery range; cold temperatures during hunting season make the limbs more prone to splitting. Plus in some states it is illegal to hunt with the high draw weights recurve crossbows typically have.
There are plenty of 20+ year Excaliburs out there, it comes down to shooting the correct weight and spine bolts. They are heavy poundage, so the content of this video is more important to Excalibur owners. A 270lbs draw weight with a 350 grain bolt is ridiculous. Shoot a 500gr bolt on the same xbow, no issues. Heavy poundage is the downside to the recurve design, but the simplicity and reliability, are what people like. No cam timing issues, strings slipping off a cam, or cable and slide wear. And Excaliburs hold up to dry fires, where cam xbows are pretty much screwed. Both designs have their good and bads, but shooting too light of bolts is an industry-wide issue that is ruining a lot of xbows and compounds.
@@timothyparks2531 Yup, a lot of people believe that because recurve crossbows have similar kinetic energy as their lighter compound cousins, they should be shooting the same arrows from each. This couldn't be farther from the truth. Dry firing is an extreme case and a result of user error, so I wouldn't put much emphasis on resilience to dry firing.
I use a 460 grain bolt that's with a 100 Grain tip, my ki fierce 405 Bone collector and my barn at 3:50 XP shoot them just fine no problems, the bolt I'm using is 22"Easton 9 mm carbon BTV
These companies better get a clue before they end up with class action lawsuits against them. A crossbow is a serious weapon not a nerf gun. The fact is what they are doing is very irresponsible. I have 2 high speed bows but havent shot them a ton (more of a rifle or shotgun guy). Glad i found this video.
I have a Killer Instinct Bone Collector 370 and use the PileDrivers with 100gr heads. They hit like a mallet and are still plenty fast. Adding a lighted nock will get you just a little more momentum too. PileDrivers all the way!
Just got done new crossbow. Rated at 405. Won't shoot the light arrows it came with it. Ordered 410 grain bolts at 20", with 125 grain field trip / broadheads. 2.5 light it noks. Which makes it 537.5 g. You are saying that's okay? Or, much better than what to factory gives you. Or did all what you said go right over my head? The segment was very good. Thank you😊
You are right i've been shooting archery since i was 5 yrs old, i shot jr olympics, many many sporting tournaments and the heavier arrow stabilized early and the penetration was very substantial so heavier the arrow slower the speed but kinetic energy way beyond what the arrows are that are recommended to shoot
Thank you I watched with great interest. I was also keen to know 22 inch bolts can be shot out of bows that can shoot 20 inch bolts. Thanks again and cheers!
I use solid fiberglass decocking bolts as arrows and heavy steel ferrule broadheads using a coupler. I shoot short range shots and blast through bone if it's ever hit. Absolutely devastating results on animals.
My barnett only shot 320 when I bought it.i went with aluminum easton raider bolts and muzzy 125 grain fix broadheads.it put every line on my scope dead nuts out to 50yrds.i can't find them bolts anymore.they were alot heavier than the headhunters and 100 grain rips that it called for
I think they are trying to get more speeds out of shorter limbs. Had a Barnett ghost 410. Longer limbs, never any limb issues. I have had two tenpoint bows both Titan M1 model, both had slivers peel back. I’m shooting 500 grains bolt and tip. Matter of fact, I had my Titan splinter a piece of limb and sent it to tenpoint October this year, right at start of season. I got the ole ghost 410 and was back in the woods. Killed my biggest buck to date with it mid 140’s while I was waiting on warranty work on the Titan. The Titan M1 reaches upper 370’s. Just my observation.
If the bolt is 400 grains and the point is 100 grains, that’s technically 500 grains right? Or are you talking about 500 grain bolts without the point?
Great video man! Well said info that many don't consider! My Assassin 400 shoots at 355FPS with the added weight of brass inserts and shock absorption measures. Still a tack driver and I don't shoot over 40 yards.
My Parker enforcer’s limb cracked the other day, took it in and the guy said it was because of a 5 dollar limb rocker pad…..wasn’t the first time he’s seen that 😳
You are probably right that most people don't hit IBO with compounds for hunting, but you totally could, without the bow blowing up. The limbs just aren't that stressed. The typical problem was getting good arrow flight, not worries about limb breakage. You can rig compounds to shoot IBO, and not use mechanicals, but I don't think too many people do it, and you give up a ton of performance with mechanicals. The other problem is that maximum speed compounds are not that shootable, so I don't even look at where we are with max IBO speeds, most of the top shooters don't shoot them. But The winning bows in maybe the 310-320 range were totally shootable at 5 grains. I wouldn't probably do it, but it can be done. ASA speeds are more reasonable, with greater arrow durability a desirable attribute.
My bolts are 50 grains heavier than the ones that came with my centerpoint 425. Limb still shattered. My centerpoint dagger 405 limb started splitting while i was sitting in my treestand. Scary situation.
I've brought a few fast crossbows over the last 10 yrs and have been heart broken in my opinion the most reliable one I've gotten is the barnett jackal I've had it for 10 years no problems not the fastest but definitely reliable.
I 100% agree with you on all except lb feet of energy. I've studied interior, external, and terminal ballistics for years, but any good hunter knows that if you double the speed you quadruple the # feet of energy. If you double the weight you double the energy. Does not matter if it is a car, airplane, bullet, or an arrow.
You are correct for kinetic energy where velocity is squared. Momentum however is just mass x velocity. The example showed my gains in mass far exceeded my losses in velocity...translating to greater momentum.
Let's not forget the huge elephant in the room that I see so many crossbow hunters doing. They cock their crossbow when there isn't a animal in sight and wait, or cock their crossbow when they see a animal far out of shooting range. Only cock your crossbow shortly before you are intending to shoot. All that extended and unnecessary time having your limbs drawn puts massive stress and wear and tear on them.
You may have a setup where you can leave your bow uncocked until you see an animal….if you do that is awesome. I certainly do not, it has to be cocked…sometimes from sun up to sun down. If it can’t do that, it’s not the bow for me.
@Draggin' Deer Outdoors I hear you . However if you do some simple calculations. If you cock your bow from sunrise to sunset call that 12 hours. If you do that say 20 times you are looking at 240 hours. If you calculate how many regular shots you can take in that time. Then you see the huge amount of strain and wear and tear you are putting your limbs through. In 240 hours, working on 1 minute a shot that's 14400 shots. Even with your top of the range crossbows like Ravin , Ten point, ect you wouldn't be surprised if a limb failed after 14400 shots. Most people won't even get near to that amount of shots owning a particular crossbow.
My bear constrictor has exploded in my tree stand twice, bear fixed it both times but its bad. the rep from bear told me i had to uncock the bow every couple hours to prevent it. the rep also said these new faster bow limbs wont handle the force put on them. my question is why produce the bow if its not going to work
Why? Because people are harping on speed. Instead what companies should give is the lightest bolt velocity and a standard heavy bolt velocity (550 or 600 seems fair)
I was shooting the centerpoint 405 gladiator with pile drivers with 125 grain broadheads for two years no dryfires or anything an my limbs broke this year
Awesome show awesome information question I have a Bruin 370 crossbow that shoots 370 feet per second what would you recommend in bolt weight and what weight tips would you recommend. Thank you God bless
I recommend the heaviest setup that shoots perfect bullet holes through paper. Every bow, every shaft is different so you may be to play around a bit to find the combo that works best for you. With that said... the setup that continues to perform really well in many different bows is the Sirius Phoenix - 110 gr insert - 150 grain point. Depending on the bolt length and nock...you'll be in the 510-540 gr ball park.
This year I have decided to get one. After a TON of research I have come to the conclusion the heaviest, longest bolts are the ticket, and staying away from mechanical broadheads. One post I read from a dog tracker guy states 80% of his calls are archer's using mechanical broadheads. One Issue too is some non mechanical broadheads simply can't be shot from crossbows at all. You really need to nail that down to pick one. I have decided on one in the $700+ range as my pick. I will be ready by next season if not the tail end of this one !
In my head, I have kind of settled on a roughly 550-600 grain bolt and a single bevel broadhead and the Barnett Whitetail STR as the bow. Obviously all of that could change but that's what I think is my go to at this point.
@@jeffhays1968 That would be a great setup! My recommendation would be to paper tune (nock tune and try different weights up front) and shoot the heaviest setup that still prints a perfect bullet hole. Most of my setups have been in the 500-550 range. Good luck, have fun with it!
@@draggindeeroutdoors ya, I have looked at tons of ranch fairy stuff on tuning bolts. Nice thing is you can shoot in the house to get that data, no need to freeze outside at the start. Waiting for some giant sale or similar to grab a bow on the down low, lol.
OK ! What about 405 gr. Bolts am l going to have a problem shooting 405 Gr. bolts out of my crossbow ? I have a center point cross bow that shoot 425 fps. And have a BearX Saga crossbow that shoot 405 fps. !! I bought a pack of rage 100 gr. Broad heads and I bought two dozens of bolts that are 405 gr. !!!
Been x bow hunting in Ohio for 27 yrs this season (2021) Horton exp which I still own 2219 20 inch100 grn thunder head zero issues none,string replacement about 20xs,lol 238 blazing FPS😂 puts holes in them out to 40yrds it’s retired a museum piece it is now Cp400 now ~factory bolts, 200 grn field tip in front of all blade SS cutter , zero issues, about80 shots thus far,total # is 515 grns@ 380 -377FPS Very accurate @50+yrds, yes you are correct too light of a arrow,accelerated wear and tear big time! Speed kills it kills your limbs! Don’t need all that speed inside 40 yrds,but that’s how they make them now Best Regards
Excalibur Micro 335 with a Black Eagle Spinal Tap 110 grain insert, 200 grain Grizzlestik Samurai single bevel BH. 500 grains, 290 FPS. Shoulder destroyer on whitetail under 30 yards.
This is arguably the best piece of crossbow advice on the internet. Every single person considering buying a crossbow needs to see his. And anyone who has a crossbow and is bent on speed, needs to watch this too...especially the ladder. It's no different than someone who reloads ammunition. You wouldn't add 30% more powder to your .308 cartridge to gain more speed would you? Of course not, something would break (or blowup) Use heavier bolts and never worry about your limbs cracking. That's the simple answer
Thank you, glad ya liked it!
So true!
As a one time traditional archer and now at 77 years old hunting with a crossbow I'm with you 100%. My 12 year old Excalibur Exocet 200 is shooting about 300 fps and still putting the whitetails down.
Brass inserts and arrow weight tubes will bring up the weight of a carbon arrow/bolt - needn't invest in new arrows.
Inserts and weight tubes is definitely another way to do it! Keep slayin’ em, Bill!
In my experience if the cams are out of timing a little I get vibration. Killer instinct has cam timing marks but my hypertac 420 don’t and 6 shots I’m a 1/8 to the right of the barrel at the knock point on the strings serving . My hypertac don’t have came position lines so I have no idea where the belong . 6- 12 shots seems the reach string and cable stretch and needs to be timed and tuned . I haven’t broke any limbs yet on my 400+ fps bows . Noticed rail lube keeps friction heat from frying the string and serving. I’m trying to find cam position specs for Barnett hypertac 420 , haven’t found any yet .
This logic makes complete sense. As an archery coach, I have seen limb failures on conventional bows because of under-spined arrows. The frustrating thing is that I have yet to find a spine charts for crossbow bolts. This needs to change.
Arrow flex practically a non-issue with crossbows. Crossbow arrow shafts are much shorter (2/3 the length of ordinary arrows) and have substantially thicker walls (30 to 40 thousandths and sometimes thicker) to resist the incredible launch forces produced by a crossbow. On the other hand, controlling arrow flex is critical to obtaining the optimum performance out of a vertical bow. Hence vertical archers concern themselves with the static spine if their arrows, while crossbow archers need not do so.
A very good point yes they should have charts too.
They don't need charts.
I very much agree that the heavier bolts is the right way to go. Crossbow hunters need to buy a Crossbow with a speed dial scope on it. Mine came with a fixed lines. So I have to spend more money for the range scope. The Ranch Fairy is very helpful for us that want to shoot a crossbow. Thanks for your video.
Glad you liked it! 👍
For me, the way to go is Gold Tip's Nitro Pro (+-0.001"), 13.9gpi. They come with 60grs brass inserts, flat and moon alum nocks, and with a 100grs tip and 2" HP Vanetec vanes you are looking at 512grs bolt. Bulletproof, thickwalled, undestructable and straight carbon shaft. 🙌🏼 From a Darton 380fps rated crossbow they clock 333fps and will support a very long bow lifetime.
Sounds like a solid setup! What Darton bow do you have? Like it?
I remember the overdraws on Compound Bows where you were able to shorten the arrows which also did alot of damage to the limbs.
I am still researching crossbows information. I have never shot one, let alone a bow. I'm the guy that looks at the box and says the bigger the number, the better it must be! I know nothing about grain weight, but thought it must translate somewhere to rifle gains. I fealt like my knowledge of crossbows was as deep as a wet spot on the cement. This video probably saved me a tremendous amount of heartache and frustration. You did an amazing job explaining your point, that even I understood it! Thank you very much for taking the time to put this video together. I now feel like my depth of knowledge is up to a puddle. Lol. But understanding speed vs. weight and depth of impact. And the energy to send the bolt down range. This changes everything i was thinking! Thank you so much for the help.
Glad this helped you out!!
The two dislikes are the crossbow manufacturers 😂
The first thing I did when I got my KI Fierce 405 was purchase 100 grain inserts and built my own bolts. It made a huge difference from stock bolts. The penetration doubled and it actually quieted everything down too!
Excellent! Sounds like you’ve got a good setup! 👍
That's how you do it.
Can't agree more that lighter bolts are breaking limbs!! Don't forget though that some people use those decocking bolts that are light weight also. So be aware of what you are using 😉
GREAT POINT!!!
This is a great video. Even at 330 fps you're still faster than the best compounds and you don't have to worry about your form when you shoot, I don't see a downside.
And heavy arrows maintain energy down range and arent as affected by wind, and have better penetration i could go on lol
I shoot an #80 Hoyt compound bow using 550grain arrows (200 grain field points). I chronod the velocity 288 fps, when I shot out to 100 yards at archery targets sometimes I hit a softer spot and arrow almost stops on fletchings. I can't imagine how crazy 330 fps would be on same arrow I'm using.
Tks best informative video about crossbows. After seeing it many limbs will survive.
I just learned more about crossbows in this one video than I have in my entire life.
Heavier bolt =
same kinetic force
lower velocity
less shock force on the limbs
If only the 9mm versus 45ACP debate was this easy to solve!
This is great info as I have come across many people complaining about broken limbs...and noticed there was no sensible reason OTHER then shooting way too light of bolts.
I thank you so much for posting this video,, 5 months ago I had been saying the exact same thing and even put it in out on several of the crossbow groups that I am a member of and the backlash that I got was unbelievable,, the love that I got was remarkable,, but the backlash left a real bad taste in my mouth,, I have since posted your video about why crossbow limbs breaking to those sites,,, And again I thank you,,, you confirmed everything that I have already said as far as the speed,, as far as the weight of the bolts,, as far as Penetration and momentum,, EVERYTHING
Yes you have!! You were nicer than myself... 3 of "me" got booted and blocked LMAO
You always make vaild points. Now, go tell them momentum is more important than kinetic energy for me!
I did same thing on killer instinct group and some agreed and the backlash was way more. Seems some ppl try to help others but can't get it in there heads. They want speed and it's someone else's fault and always a buddy's bow that blew up. Love the video
Absolutely agree. Arrow weight improves energy, reduces sound and increases penetration. If you watch high speed footage of a 375 fps (at the chronograph not at the deer)crossbow arrow contacting a deer that is 40 yards from the hunter you will see the deer is able to drop down a few inches before the arrow connects with the deer. Even with the highest speed crossbows of at or near 500 fps the deer will still be able to drop a few inches at 50 yards. Until we can get our arrows to go much much faster we have to be ethical when we pull that trigger and be realistic about how far we should shoot at an animal. My Scorpyd (With low amount of crosswind) is very fast and rifle accurate to 100 yards but I would never shoot at a deer this far away. My max imposed range if all conditions are perfect with a calm deer is 60 yards. Most of my shots are 45 yards or less
Spot on, Frank! Hope that Scorpyd helps ya bring home the groceries this season!
Just bought a wicked ridge raider 400 decock and set up a 500gr bolt for it. Thank you for telling me I made the right call!
Good luck this season!!
I am going to share this video in many crossbow groups I am in if you don’t mind. Because myself and many other crossbowmen have been saying and your video explains it really really well. Thank you.
You’re welcome! Thanks for the comment. Share as much as you’d like.
May I can a link or invite to this group im a crossbow hunter myself. I love talking xbow and hunting
Eleven years ago I got a Ten Point Shadow Ultralite, 350fps with the Easton Aluminum Arrows 100gr points that came with it. Used that setup for the first year. Thought about everything after the season, and used my compound as a reference which didn't add up. I bought new arrows from Easton with metal inserts, the Ten Points were plastic, and changed the broadhead to 125gr with no problems, just slowed the speed down to about 320fps. Well the crossbow is wearing out after the 11 years of use. but I never had a limb issue. Got a new 415fps crossbow this year, came with some 290gr carbon arrows and 100gr field tips, 390gr total weight did not add up for me. I actually upgraded to the Piledriver bolts with a 125gr broadhead, haven't chronographed the speed though. Only 3 weeks of bow season left in PA, but I do plan to make those bolts 500gr or maybe a little more for next years bow season. You may lose a little bit of speed, but you are correct about the mass of the arrow.
Thanks for putting this video out with the info! Haven’t personally encountered limbs breaking yet but my friends and family who use them have this conversation a lot.
I also have a heavy bolt maker that hits a real sweet spot - Wyvern Creations out of NH. They sell custom (but very reasonably priced!) bolts including ones usable with TenPoint/WickedRidge bows and their ridiculous proprietary nock system. They can also do nice touches like adding illuminated nocks straight from the shop. A pack of 6 heavy bolts (500gr w/ 100gr tip I believe) start at $70-$80ish.
You're welcome! Good luck in the field!
I like the Goldtip nitro bolts in my Tenpoint Turbo M1 380....440 grn w/ a100gr head. I use 125gr for an increase in f.o.c. Chrony verified 360 fps with the heavier broad heads but are insanely accurate AND the bonus...it quiets the bow with the heavier bolts. A win..win all around.
Love my killer instinct hero 380 glad it’s not over 400 FPS honestly. I shot 2 doe with it and had a clean pass through both times.
Good work, congrats!
About time someone figured this out. Try and tell people on Crossbow talk this and you will get a ton of backtalk.
Good insight....speed is not always the best and viable option....shot placement is most important. I have seen compound bows push superlight arrows and damn if they dont bend and wiggle off the rest. One does not want to break a limb on a cross or compound bow when its charged. Give up some speed add weight and thump your target with added energy. Safe shooting.
My KI limbs broke and they replaced them with no questions asked or concerns.
I highly recommend them.
👍👍
Mine broke and they said they don’t sell that crossbow anymore and they would give me a discount on the parts. Doesn’t sound like a lifetime warranty to me.
Just bought a Wicked Ridge Invader 400 rated at 400fps last month The Easton bolts that came with it are xx75 aluminum 435 grain just weighed my hunting setup with a muzzy 100 broadhead weight 455 with an indexing washer installed to get proper vane to broadhead blade alignment my bow chronographs at 365 fps with this setup. Got a big doe and a 12 point wall hanger so far this year well pleased with my setup...that said never found the two kill bolts Lord only know how far they went after pass though maybe after the leaves fall this winter..
Fantastic 🤘 congrats on your deer!
I have an Excalibur MAG340 and the Bulldog 440. I use the Dragon Claw from Wyverns creations with a 100GN field point at 413GN’s or the stock 16.5” Proflight bolts weighing in at 250GN with a 150GN field point for a 413GN with lumenok. I haven’t had any issues with the MAG340 but I’ve had the Bulldog 440 limbs splinter on me once using a 350GN Proflight bolt. I prefer the Dragon Claws for both crossbow’s.
Yes, both my limbs were cracked today after replacing the cable..did we notice..one was splintering and the other honestly cracked..3 yrs old..it wasn't an expensive crossbow..but got the job done..
Wow that is probably the best explanation I heard yet and it is 100% true Natalie that faster arrow do you stabilizes quicker and longer distances the heavier arrow penetrates better and flies better and does quiet down the boat and it removes a considerable amount of vibration I have noticed it I’ve been playing with those now for about 15 years playing with them not taking it serious and in the last few years I’ve come to realize they heavier the arrow or the heavier the book the better the flight the better the accuracy
Thanks!!!
I love and use the Pile Drivers and a 125 grain tip in mine. I also use Carbon Express arrows in my vertical bow and personally think they are the best with Easton being a close second. Great video!
Awesome... Now i know. This video helped out tremendously brother👍
Just gotta K I 405. Shot it 6 times. Then seen all the videoes of em cracking.
Man you saved my bow now with your knowledge about the bolts.
I so appreciate it brother👍🇺🇲
I'll get a biggen now here in Ky thanks to you.
And hopefully itll stay together
Excellent video! A couple years ago I bought a Killer Instinct ripper 415 and it blew up on me three shots into sighting it in. Scariest damn thing I've ever had happen to me with a bow, crossbow, or rifle. I ended up returning what was left of it and buying an Excalibur 308 Short. Speed doesn't kill, practice, dedication to scouting, and time in the field does. I'll never buy a "bargain" priced bow again and I'll continue to run my heavier bolts just like I run heavy high FOC arrows with my recurve bow.
Ki crossbow had a lot of issue exploding,I was on their fb page.seemed like everybody having issues with limbs
I concur with this. It would also be interesting to see hard data on bolt weights and failures. One could isolate brands as not become a marketing ploy. Thanks for the vid.
Thanks for watching!
A few years ago I bought my first crossbow which was a Parker Blackhawk or Thunderhawk something like that and after a few weeks of shooting it I noticed a crack in the limb in my mind it was already there when I put it together but who knows I took it back to the store where it was shipped to and put a few hundred dollars with it and got an Excalibur micro axe 340 and I've had no problems outta the limbs, knock on wood. But the vibration when I shot it a few times would make the bolt loose holding it together, so I put some lock tight on it and had no problems so far. It's a budget bow like you were talking about, I got it for 550$ in 2019 and the drawl weight is a beast at 275lbs.
Nice, Nick! Hope it serves you well!
Add some weight to the stock arrows. at lease 50gn more
IMO alot of people don't even understand what a dry fire can do to their first Xbow. I'm not an expert but after dry fire, string, serving and rail maintenance is the king of Xbow hunting.
Thanks for the video! Just bought a Wicked Ridge 360 (AFTER watching your video)... only used the bolts the package came with at 435 grain. Thought I was good to go using the bolts the manufacturer included.... apparently not, the limb already splintered after 40 shots. Scheels replaced it on spot since it's only been 22 days since buying from them. I've just purchased the pile drivers after watching your video again (should have done in the first place). Hoping that helps this next crossbow survive a bit longer. Thanks again for posting your knowledge!
Thanks, Amarjit! Happy hunting/shooting!
Make sure ya get the alpha knocks brother. My wicked ridge 360 has to use them according to the manufacturer. I ordered a bunch of bolts when I ordered my bow then had to send them back when I read the instructions. BEST bow for the money. Solid choice bro!
For those using Excalibur’s that are using older models that are the wide limbs the proflights are amazing. But you are at 2x the draw weight and the 400 grains is perfect for those models. They are not okay to use on the modern line crossbows you have to get them to 2x the draw weight.
I have the ripper 415, my setup is a piledriver bolt (360 grains) with a 100 grain field point/broadhead, for 460 grains. My buddy shot a deer in the shoulder at 35 yds. with the same bolt I use and and half the bolt was sticking out the other side of the shoulder, and his crossbow is rated at 390 fps. Don't be afraid of results with heavier bolts.
Awesome, Rex! Excellent setup 👌
I disagree on that being an excellent set up your foc is piss poor
The underweight arrow issue should come as no surprise. Many of the faster crossbows on the market, especially the Excalibur models, tend to have titanic draw weights and very long power strokes (think Matrix series), which combines to produce an absurd amount of stored energy in the limbs. Then they give you toothpicks to shoot so you can compete with the speeds of compound crossbows. Problem is, the bolt only ends up absorbing something like 60% of the energy unleashed by the limbs. The remaining 40% of the energy ends up shaking the living daylights out of the limbs when the string hits brace position upon release.
Compound crossbows are less susceptible to this kind of damage than recurve crossbows because they can shoot lighter arrows more efficiently thanks to cams, cables, and parallel limb arrangement.
I'd wager that the optimal arrow for a ~300 lbf recurve crossbow would probably weigh 1000-1500 grains. The only way you're gonna get a crossbow arrow that heavy while retaining aerodynamic stability is by inserting a heavy metal rod (brass, carbide, or even tungsten) behind the arrow point just barely smaller than the ID of the shaft.
Most compound crossbows can easily handle the lightweight arrows they are shipped with, as they are still 90+% efficient at delivering the energy to the arrow.
However something like the Ravin crossbows could probably use a heavier arrow than stock (maybe 500+ grain) because of their higher draw weights.
hello
I have an excalibur micro 340
270lbs, recurve
they gave to me 351 grains arrows....
i am thinking to add some weight to them to have 400 or even 450 grains arrow
at 400 grains i ll have arround 325 fps and at 450 grains 302 fps
what do you sugest in order to maintain a resonable hunting arrow speed?
PileDriver also comes in a 22" bolt that come in at 479 gr. with 100 gr tip 579 is a great weight.
Piledrivers are great bolts. However, just know weight listed for piledrivers INCLUDE a 100 grain tip. This is straight from their product description:
“Weight: 442 grains. Diameter: 0.348". Straightness Tolerance: +/- 0.004 MAX. 6 pack. Note: Weight includes 100 grain field points.
So if you’re shooting the 22” version with a 100 grain point, your total bolt weight is 479.
I’m happy with my PSE fang it shoots 390 feet per second I use 20 inch bolts with 100 grain broadheads. The problem I see with these strings snapping is the knock the moon knock is the safest because the string can not slip over it. thees newer style knocks don’t keep the arrow in line and allow the string to jump over the bolt causing the string to brake. They need to make them crossbows shot moon knocks only.
Thank you, Great video, I'm shooting a KI 415, using 400grain setup, still doing well but think im gonna change the tips to 150 to gain up to 450
Good luck! Don’t be afraid to go a bit higher too. The ripper we shoot likes just over 500 grains.
My son bought a KI 405. Limbs broke 20 some shots into his owning it.
They replaced them under warranty .
He went and bought some heavier " pile driver" arrows and good 2 go ever since.
But it is noticeably slower.
I use Juggernauts. 22” bolt, out of the box is 520grains (w/100gr points)! I use 200gr heads so I’m at about 620. However, after about 30ish yards, they drop like rocks! So make sure you zero and check which of your reticles it’s hitting at, out past 30yds!
They ARE a discontinued bolt from Carbon Express, replaced by the LIGHTER Piledrivers, but they can still be found on Ebay and I believe Amazon too. But they are starting to get more scarce. Just got a new box of 6 for $36 a couple weeks ago! If your into Ranch Fairy’s theories of heavy arrows and high FOC, you can’t beat these for an out of the box factory load!
Those sound pretty sweet! 👍
Ive been on all forums and the one I see the most is Killer Instinct with broken limbs. Seen Barnett post 2 in 6 months. Killer Instinct every other post. You would figure KI would recommend a heavier bolt after seeing the problem but they don't because they know it wouldn't matter. Seen post on KI facebook people would use 500 grain + and still broke the limbs explain that because it was me and others using this band aid answer. So yes light bolts might have a small factor but KI just makes a cheap product. It is what it is....
I also see 3 times more killer instinct Crossbows being sold now , and a lot of the shooters are 1st year shooter , I believe that adds the higher numbers your seeing.
Moral of the story use heavier bolts so the limbs won’t blow up
Heavier arrows certainly help!
Excellent video FINALLY someone spesking the truth about crossbows
Next I am expressing strictly MY OPINION but I also think the fact that many possibly most crossbow owners are not educated tge FACTS that it is absolutely mandatory and as to the how and why at set intervals of time and several times for every singke year they own any crossbow they must inspect thier crossbows and determine the brace hight is correct the cams are correctly timed and thier cam lean is as slight as can be achieved and
A well tuned crossbow with absolute minimal cam lean and perfectly timed cams and correct brace hight combined with using arrows the total weight weight of which minimizes excessive linb fatigue will go a long way in maximizing the life expectancy of your crossbows limbs
Additionally I believe most crossbow owners do not understand that crossbows because of thier inherently short power stroke are horribly inefficient in transmitting the stored power of the limbs and cams to the arrow
Example is if your crossbow has an efficiency of say 55% and a DW of 280lbs the majority of the stored energy of a cocked crossbows limbs and cams will be re-directed back into the crossbow when released in an extreamly brief very violent expenditure of energy. The more out if tune your crossbow is and the lighter yiur arrows are the more magnified and detrimental this affect is to your crossbow
I was completely oblivious to these facts until I decided to research crossbows because I was thinking of buying one and felt I absolutely must become as knowledgeable about maintaining them, how to change thier strings and cables and if necessary repairing them just lije I did with my compound vertical bows and firearms I own
Quite frankly I was shocked on just how severely the forces exerted by firing a crossbow were on the crossbow itself. Made me realize I must become very well educated on how to constantly maintain any crossbow I buy to keep it in tune and in as clse to perfect working order by learning how to correctly inspect it and what to inspect to prevent a minor issue from escalating into a catastrophic failure
Lastly I am absolutely sick beyond measure by bow hunters who dislike crossbows saying its the same as using a rifle this statement in of itself proves just how ignorant such people are about crossbows.
Thanks, Arthur! 👍
I also think it has a lot to do with with people shooting 20 or 30 or more arrows a week treating it like it’s a gun that you can just shoot and shoot, these are not compound bows once they’re signed in they’re good, I average shooting six arrows a year and that’s just too check my site make sure everything‘s good and then I put it away and wait for hunting season, but some people think they have to shoot them all the time so I think that has a lot to do with the limbs falling.
You are absolutely correct.A crossbow is not a compound either where you need a lot of practice to stay sharp.I’ve read where some people have shot like 1000 shots and more a year.What do they really think is gonna happen to those limbs ?!!! Right before the season starts I’ll make sure I’m good from 20 to 50 yards and leave it alone.After that , the only time it’s shot is when I’m shooting at a deer.One of the reasons I switched to a crossbow is because my shoulders aren’t what they used to be and can’t really do all that compound bow practice anymore.Hope a lot of people read your comment and my reply so they can understand not to overshoot their crossbows 👍
Thanks for explaining this I'm about to buy the KI415 and I want to get the best recommended bolt grain together
I fully agree with your recommendations!
Thanks, Jimmy!
Easton 22" XX75 magnum. 375 gr out of the box. Add 100gr field point for 475gr goes through a straw bail at 15yds. with a Barnett XP400. Haven't cronied it.
🤘🤘
“The bolts are too light”!!
Amen!!
I shoot a bolt that total weight is 525gr.
Cuts like a hot knife thru butter. Way quieter. Deer don’t know what just passed they them!!🤣😂
Another tip that hasn't been brought up in the vid: Do NOT get a recurve crossbow. At least not a high poundage one. The advantage cams bring to the table is not only efficiency, but also distribution of stress on the limbs. When a compound crossbow is drawn the cams rotate, taking some strain off the limbs. Recurved limbs don't have this benefit, and with the short limbs crossbows have they WILL split when drawn. Don't think your Excalibur will stay intact just because it did so in the archery range; cold temperatures during hunting season make the limbs more prone to splitting.
Plus in some states it is illegal to hunt with the high draw weights recurve crossbows typically have.
There are plenty of 20+ year Excaliburs out there, it comes down to shooting the correct weight and spine bolts. They are heavy poundage, so the content of this video is more important to Excalibur owners. A 270lbs draw weight with a 350 grain bolt is ridiculous. Shoot a 500gr bolt on the same xbow, no issues. Heavy poundage is the downside to the recurve design, but the simplicity and reliability, are what people like. No cam timing issues, strings slipping off a cam, or cable and slide wear. And Excaliburs hold up to dry fires, where cam xbows are pretty much screwed. Both designs have their good and bads, but shooting too light of bolts is an industry-wide issue that is ruining a lot of xbows and compounds.
@@timothyparks2531 Yup, a lot of people believe that because recurve crossbows have similar kinetic energy as their lighter compound cousins, they should be shooting the same arrows from each. This couldn't be farther from the truth. Dry firing is an extreme case and a result of user error, so I wouldn't put much emphasis on resilience to dry firing.
Thank you for explaining this. I just bought the ripper.
Thank you for this great information. The piledriver bolts I am currently using, but will look into the Phoenix to try for my Killer Instinct.
I use a 460 grain bolt that's with a 100 Grain tip, my ki fierce 405 Bone collector and my barn at 3:50 XP shoot them just fine no problems, the bolt I'm using is 22"Easton 9 mm carbon BTV
These companies better get a clue before they end up with class action lawsuits against them. A crossbow is a serious weapon not a nerf gun. The fact is what they are doing is very irresponsible. I have 2 high speed bows but havent shot them a ton (more of a rifle or shotgun guy). Glad i found this video.
I have a Killer Instinct Bone Collector 370 and use the PileDrivers with 100gr heads. They hit like a mallet and are still plenty fast. Adding a lighted nock will get you just a little more momentum too. PileDrivers all the way!
Just got done new crossbow. Rated at 405. Won't shoot the light arrows it came with it. Ordered 410 grain bolts at 20", with 125 grain field trip / broadheads. 2.5 light it noks. Which makes it 537.5 g. You are saying that's okay? Or, much better than what to factory gives you. Or did all what you said go right over my head? The segment was very good. Thank you😊
You are right i've been shooting archery since i was 5 yrs old, i shot jr olympics, many many sporting tournaments and the heavier arrow stabilized early and the penetration was very substantial so heavier the arrow slower the speed but kinetic energy way beyond what the arrows are that are recommended to shoot
I take elk at 100 yards so i don't agree with that
Thank you I watched with great interest. I was also keen to know 22 inch bolts can be shot out of bows that can shoot 20 inch bolts. Thanks again and cheers!
What can I use for a hyper tac 430? They recommend the hyper flight 300 grain bolts?
I use solid fiberglass decocking bolts as arrows and heavy steel ferrule broadheads using a coupler. I shoot short range shots and blast through bone if it's ever hit. Absolutely devastating results on animals.
Yowza! That’s a freight train setup!
I’ve got a centerpoint and a killer instinct. Never shot anything other than 425 grain to 500 and they both broke while cocking them back.
Call CS, they'll make it right.
@@draggindeeroutdoors who’s cs?
@@donjaun1423 customer service.
Gold tip nitro 500 bolt is 500 grains with a 100 grain head also the insert is threaded so you can screw in 50 grain fact weights
Those sound legit as well!
I figure its coz they send light ass factory arrows to meet their advertised speed its almost like dry firing it
Edit: was right 👋
bruh this is smart af
Debunked
Good to know . I got a new crossbow coming in and been doing my research on this subject , Thanks for posting .
Good luck this season 👍👍
@@draggindeeroutdoors , Thank you . You also .
My barnett only shot 320 when I bought it.i went with aluminum easton raider bolts and muzzy 125 grain fix broadheads.it put every line on my scope dead nuts out to 50yrds.i can't find them bolts anymore.they were alot heavier than the headhunters and 100 grain rips that it called for
I think they are trying to get more speeds out of shorter limbs. Had a Barnett ghost 410. Longer limbs, never any limb issues. I have had two tenpoint bows both Titan M1 model, both had slivers peel back. I’m shooting 500 grains bolt and tip. Matter of fact, I had my Titan splinter a piece of limb and sent it to tenpoint October this year, right at start of season. I got the ole ghost 410 and was back in the woods. Killed my biggest buck to date with it mid 140’s while I was waiting on warranty work on the Titan. The Titan M1 reaches upper 370’s. Just my observation.
Excellent analogy heavier bolts mean a harder hit.... People are getting caught up with 400 plus speed under $500 bow is asking for trouble.
How does price make a difference? That's just a number based on brand and marketing, very often doesn't mean anything in terms of quality.
Goldtip 425 ballistics 100 grain tip 447.5 total weight . Speed went from 401fps to 362fps.
Nice!
I mean historical crossbows had low speeds and high draw weights but could punch through armor so I really wouldn't be worrying about speed so much.
True!
This guys bang on , I’ve said this all along ,
Thanks, Brian!
If the bolt is 400 grains and the point is 100 grains, that’s technically 500 grains right? Or are you talking about 500 grain bolts without the point?
500 grains including the point
Great video man! Well said info that many don't consider! My Assassin 400 shoots at 355FPS with the added weight of brass inserts and shock absorption measures. Still a tack driver and I don't shoot over 40 yards.
Excellent setup 👍
What 400 fps crossbow sells for $200? Will the heavier bolts be slower than the lighter bolts?
Several companies have 400 fps bows that are often on sale for $200. And yes heavier arrows will be slower.
My Parker enforcer’s limb cracked the other day, took it in and the guy said it was because of a 5 dollar limb rocker pad…..wasn’t the first time he’s seen that 😳
Glad you figured out the problem!
You are probably right that most people don't hit IBO with compounds for hunting, but you totally could, without the bow blowing up. The limbs just aren't that stressed. The typical problem was getting good arrow flight, not worries about limb breakage. You can rig compounds to shoot IBO, and not use mechanicals, but I don't think too many people do it, and you give up a ton of performance with mechanicals.
The other problem is that maximum speed compounds are not that shootable, so I don't even look at where we are with max IBO speeds, most of the top shooters don't shoot them. But The winning bows in maybe the 310-320 range were totally shootable at 5 grains. I wouldn't probably do it, but it can be done. ASA speeds are more reasonable, with greater arrow durability a desirable attribute.
My bolts are 50 grains heavier than the ones that came with my centerpoint 425. Limb still shattered. My centerpoint dagger 405 limb started splitting while i was sitting in my treestand. Scary situation.
That’s no good, glad you’re alright!
I've brought a few fast crossbows over the last 10 yrs and have been heart broken in my opinion the most reliable one I've gotten is the barnett jackal I've had it for 10 years no problems not the fastest but definitely reliable.
I just bought one and I love mine!!!
Any thoughts on the 22 inch pile drivers? I’m also shooting a Ripper 415.
Really enjoy your habitat work videos.
Thanks
I’ve only shot the 20” Piledriver but it performed very well. No reason the 22” wouldn’t do the same 👍
Excellent message. Well done.
Thanks!!
I agree lighter bolts more vibration is where the limb destruction is occurring
I am looking at an Excalibur Mag Air for my first and only bow. Seeing that it shoots well below 400, I hope I don’t encounter these problems.
Hopefully you don’t 🤞
I 100% agree with you on all except lb feet of energy.
I've studied interior, external, and terminal ballistics for years, but any good hunter knows that if you double the speed you quadruple the # feet of energy. If you double the weight you double the energy. Does not matter if it is a car, airplane, bullet, or an arrow.
You are correct for kinetic energy where velocity is squared. Momentum however is just mass x velocity. The example showed my gains in mass far exceeded my losses in velocity...translating to greater momentum.
Let's not forget the huge elephant in the room that I see so many crossbow hunters doing. They cock their crossbow when there isn't a animal in sight and wait, or cock their crossbow when they see a animal far out of shooting range. Only cock your crossbow shortly before you are intending to shoot. All that extended and unnecessary time having your limbs drawn puts massive stress and wear and tear on them.
You may have a setup where you can leave your bow uncocked until you see an animal….if you do that is awesome. I certainly do not, it has to be cocked…sometimes from sun up to sun down. If it can’t do that, it’s not the bow for me.
@Draggin' Deer Outdoors I hear you . However if you do some simple calculations. If you cock your bow from sunrise to sunset call that 12 hours. If you do that say 20 times you are looking at 240 hours. If you calculate how many regular shots you can take in that time. Then you see the huge amount of strain and wear and tear you are putting your limbs through. In 240 hours, working on 1 minute a shot that's 14400 shots. Even with your top of the range crossbows like Ravin , Ten point, ect you wouldn't be surprised if a limb failed after 14400 shots. Most people won't even get near to that amount of shots owning a particular crossbow.
Shot recurve and long bows all my life using heavy arrows just got crossbow going use 510 grain bolt it
Nice, Steven!
Is 492 grain Total good for a bruin ambush 405
If it shoots true you should be good
Great video. Good to hear some common sense for a change.
Thanks for tuning in!
My bear constrictor has exploded in my tree stand twice, bear fixed it both times but its bad. the rep from bear told me i had to uncock the bow every couple hours to prevent it. the rep also said these new faster bow limbs wont handle the force put on them. my question is why produce the bow if its not going to work
Great 2 cents video. My crossbow blew up. Turns out. shooting to light of bolt.
Why? Because people are harping on speed. Instead what companies should give is the lightest bolt velocity and a standard heavy bolt velocity (550 or 600 seems fair)
I was shooting the centerpoint 405 gladiator with pile drivers with 125 grain broadheads for two years no dryfires or anything an my limbs broke this year
Dang man, sorry to hear. Hopefully Centerpoint made things right for ya.
Awesome show awesome information question I have a Bruin 370 crossbow that shoots 370 feet per second what would you recommend in bolt weight and what weight tips would you recommend. Thank you God bless
I recommend the heaviest setup that shoots perfect bullet holes through paper. Every bow, every shaft is different so you may be to play around a bit to find the combo that works best for you. With that said... the setup that continues to perform really well in many different bows is the Sirius Phoenix - 110 gr insert - 150 grain point. Depending on the bolt length and nock...you'll be in the 510-540 gr ball park.
Got mine about at 495 grains thinking that should do for now i do want to get to a about 520 to 540
That's great! You'll enjoy the results!
This year I have decided to get one. After a TON of research I have come to the conclusion the heaviest, longest bolts are the ticket, and staying away from mechanical broadheads. One post I read from a dog tracker guy states 80% of his calls are archer's using mechanical broadheads. One Issue too is some non mechanical broadheads simply can't be shot from crossbows at all. You really need to nail that down to pick one. I have decided on one in the $700+ range as my pick. I will be ready by next season if not the tail end of this one !
Great Jeff! And you may be surprised, a properly tuned bolt will shoot many fixed blades very well.
In my head, I have kind of settled on a roughly 550-600 grain bolt and a single bevel broadhead and the Barnett Whitetail STR as the bow. Obviously all of that could change but that's what I think is my go to at this point.
@@jeffhays1968 That would be a great setup! My recommendation would be to paper tune (nock tune and try different weights up front) and shoot the heaviest setup that still prints a perfect bullet hole. Most of my setups have been in the 500-550 range. Good luck, have fun with it!
@@draggindeeroutdoors ya, I have looked at tons of ranch fairy stuff on tuning bolts. Nice thing is you can shoot in the house to get that data, no need to freeze outside at the start. Waiting for some giant sale or similar to grab a bow on the down low, lol.
OK ! What about 405 gr. Bolts am l going to have a problem shooting 405 Gr. bolts out of my crossbow ? I have a center point cross bow that shoot 425 fps. And have a BearX Saga crossbow that shoot 405 fps. !! I bought a pack of rage 100 gr. Broad heads and I bought two dozens of bolts that are 405 gr. !!!
Been x bow hunting in Ohio for 27 yrs this season (2021)
Horton exp which I still own 2219 20 inch100 grn thunder head zero issues none,string replacement about 20xs,lol
238 blazing FPS😂 puts holes in them out to 40yrds it’s retired a museum piece it is now
Cp400 now ~factory bolts, 200 grn field tip in front of all blade SS cutter , zero issues, about80 shots thus far,total # is 515 grns@ 380 -377FPS
Very accurate @50+yrds, yes you are correct too light of a arrow,accelerated wear and tear big time! Speed kills it kills your limbs!
Don’t need all that speed inside 40 yrds,but that’s how they make them now
Best Regards
think ill be fine with some carbon express piledrivers with 125gr tips? total weight is 485gr
I shoot a heavy 700 grain bolt no issues. Gold tip nitro 500 bolt and I screw in 100 grains of brass behind insert plus 150 grain broadhead
LOVE the sounds of that setup! 👍👍
Excalibur Micro 335 with a Black Eagle Spinal Tap 110 grain insert, 200 grain Grizzlestik Samurai single bevel BH. 500 grains, 290 FPS. Shoulder destroyer on whitetail under 30 yards.