Big Bad - I: The Basics of Villains in Video Game Design - Extra Credits
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2014
- Video game villains that don't match the overall tone of the game distract the player and can become more of a laughing stock than a threat. Game designers must understand the two basic categories of bad guys (mechanics villains and narrative villains) and know not only when to use them but how to approach their design.
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adding Tom Nook to the end of that list killed me, but your right. He is a being of pure and unimaginable evil
Lol yes 😂
true
Dan, Dann and Danny?
so sounds like Ed, Edd, and Eddy
adriastarr257 that...that was the joke/reference yes.
Dann is Double N. Orrrr could just call him Double D, as a referential nickname, since it sounds better than Double N anyway.
smegskull You sir are smart.
Tom Nook=pure evil and darkness
Gideon Sebesebe yep
I like how kirby goes against the whole contrast thing. The games are cheerful until the very end, in which you end up fighting beasts that belong in hell.
"A being of true evil...
TOM NOOK"
2:24 that Tom Nook joke got me
4:35 Dan, Danny, and Daniel, make every Dan have a slightly different variation of the name and it will be less confusing
but then it wouldn't be as funny, hahah
Everyone laughing at the fact that you said Tom Nook
But Tom Nook exemplifies financial issues that plague society so terribly
He is terrifying
yeah, extra credits I mean no harm but please do more research and play(if more) of the origin game. Tom nook is my favorite video game character ever
Reid schultz No one ever said you have to like or hate Tom Nook, but no one ever said people had to like the idea of starting off a game in debt, either.
Tom Nook is a badass.
Interest free mortgage loan with no terms on when you need to repay it? Tom Nook is a saint.
Lute27 Well when you put it that way...
no one, can beat the true horror of *t o m n o o k*
Tom Nook, the true villain of every story. You can’t see him but he’s there......
2:26 Tom Nook. Heartless villian confirmed. my gut feeling is usually right after all.
He started to walk towards redemption in New leaf, but he has a ways to go
Tom nook = Best boss
He asks for bells so it isnt free
Pure EVIL
This is why Sephiroth is so well remembered.
When we are first introduced to him, he is a character that Cloud idolizes, and in the flashback when you team up with him he is immensely powerful compared to yourself, reinforcing the gap in between the two of them. The rest of the game then deals with the tale of Cloud discovering himself, conquering his self doubts for the greater good again, and ultimately challenging and surpassing his fallen idol.
This is probably why I have some mild beef with Advent Children nowadays, since they reverted Cloud back to his self loathing self, when at the end of FF7 he was practically one of the happiest people on Earth.
The movie also has Cloud whine in a way that is more akin to Vincent's depressive pessimism than to Cloud's cold exterior and identity crisis. That and his lines aren't nearly as well-written as they were in the game.
And interestingly, Kefka is the exact opposite, in that the gameplay illustrates his slow rise in power. The first encounter with him impossible to lose, the second asks a lot more of your thought process, the third is impossible to *win*, and the last one happens on a much larger scale.
I like how Jirard Kaleel (The Completionist) put it with Cloud in Advent Children. He said it as "However two years have passed since those days, and Cloud doesn't like the person he has become, unable to shake this feeling of self inflicted guilt over the loss of two of the most important people in his life." Or something like that, it's not an exact quote, but it makes sense. Personally I still like the movie (the complete edition), even if somethings aren't explained as well as they could be.
First Dan: Dan
Second Dan: Extra Dan
Third Dan: Danny
Also, I have a question about villains, but let me see if I got this right first:
Mechanics villains are there to push the player forward, as a goal, the catalyst for the entire game. They kidnap the princess or point a nuke to your city. You want to defeat them because it's what you have to do.
Narrative villains push the plot, they are the ones that confront the player in terms of story. The player wants to defeat them because they rubbed you the wrong way, they touched a nerve, it is the right thing to do (or is it, question mark?)
However, what about games that have villains that are both? I feel like I still don't see the point that separates them both. Andrew Ryan I can see, he does absolutely nothing and only serves as a concept, a character, not a final boss. Bowser as well, as he is extremely shallow in terms of character (which is not a bad thing). But what about The Boss in MGS3 or The Walrider in Outlast? Are they narrative villains, mechanics villains or both? Can you even do both types without creating a sloppy mess of a character?
Dan, DDan, and Danny.
Dan Alpha, Dan Beta, Dan Gamma. :P
***** haaaaa! I see what you did there, and I love you for it!
Dan the first
Dan squared
Dan Cubed.
I died at tom nook
2:26 why is Tom nook there?
He’s on a whole other level than those other insignificant “bosses”
2:25 "Tom Nook"
Oh my gosh I can't
I may of actually laughed at that more than I should of
I had to actually pause the video because I couldn't
What does that make Redd though?
***** As RL has proven over and over again with Banksters and Wolves of wall street.
Get it? He's... the boss?
*JonTron gets a heart attack and dies*
2:25 the greatest villain in gaming history
"Hey I'm Dan"
"I'm also Dan"
"Daaaaaaaaaan"
I'm Very Angry It's Not Butter ho no, it's the person who made the Mardek remixes!
I laughed so hard at "Tom Nook" my spine popped
"If you're making a light-hearted experience you can make you character comical"
Precedes to draw the most evil and dark character in Earthbound
You bring up lightheartedness, and then you show Porky.
Lightheartedness.
Mother 3.
Lightheartedness.
MOTHER 3.
Drake Butcher Well Earthbound has a lightheartedness set up... for the most part anyway..
+xxjermxx70 Mother 3 is NOT lightheated. Really not.
Justin Briand Earthbound is not Mother 3. Also you must be digging deep into the comment section.
+xxjermxx70
Earthbound is the name of the American Mother 3.
KimiOmega
Ah. I see. I guess the two names get thrown around in the same context so much that I mixed them up.
"Villan of pure evil. Tom Nook." Lol
Сука блят капитализм
Tom nook... HE STILL WON’T SELL ME THAT FREAKING FISH DOOR THAT HE SAID HE WOULD HAVE IN STOCK FOR LATER BUT THAT I COULDN’T BUY THEN BECAUSE MY HOUSE WAS UNDER RENOVATION!!!
Like I thought this guy wanted money.
2:20 True villain list:
The Encahntress
Chaos
Lavos
Maleficent
*Tom Nook*
tom nook is the most evil of them all
He wants your Soul for money
You know, I don't really think Porky is best described as a "light-hearted" villain, all things considered...
The Enchantress, Chaos, Lavos, Maleficent, Tom Nook, sounds about right
tom nook is hitting different in 2020
I wonder if you can have a villain that's both mechanical AND narrative
I'm sure that's possible
yes big boss and narratave
1:54 IT’S OUR FAVOURITE MORON!!!
Although, I still feel sorry for him.
Yes Tom Nook is a very evil villan
>Pure evil
>Tom Nook
Well I mean you aren't wrong but he's more of a narrative villain.
I think dark samus from the metroid prime series would be an excellent example of a narrative villain. She was a big driving force in prime 2 and 3 being big a badass that really stood out among all the encounters in the game while simultaneously creating an atmosphere designed to entice you to push forward.
I don't think Dark Samus was a narrative villain at all. Only a Mechanics villain, because she didn't.... do anything.. cut her out from the story and the story would pretty much stay the same
Focie I would say she did a bunch in prime 3, she took over a large portion of the space pirates, sparking a great conflict with the federation that could determine the fate of the entire galaxy, starting phazon corruption on entire planets, as well as corrupting samus and her companions at the beginning, turning previous allies into deranged, dangerous monsters and nearly turning Samus into another Dark Samus as well.
shunkwugga Yeah, I can see what you mean, though I still prefer having a villain that you slowly can get closer to and eventually fight, giving a face to the threat you're going up against.
I think SAX would be more of a narrative boss. While Dark Samus just existed to be defeated, SAX had an existence. SAX wanted you dead, yes, but it also had more desire to see metroids exterminated to allow the X to proliferate. Then throw in that (spoilers) it could multiply and there were literally dozens of them by the end of the game... that's a intimidating force since SAX just roflstomped you through 90% of the game, forcing you to run or hide at nearly every encounter.
Timdeuces You might be right. Honestly, I thought the third one was the weakest in the series, and I remember pretty much nothing about the game, though I remember most everything from prime and prime 2.
Extra Credits should make their own game. It would probably be perfect in almost every way!
With all the characters named Dan.
Well James,the guy who writes extra credits does make games!
*TOM NOOK MONEY BAGS INTENSIFY*
2:24 WE DO NOT SPEAK OF THAT DEMON!!!
Tom Nook is the most darkest of evils, the greed incarnate himself.
I don't get how he's evil, when he has kids to feed, and a market to run
I was eating cereal when you said Tom nook and I spit it out xD
"Tom Nook"Well,he gave you a house and you can choose to never pay for it. I never understood why people hate him, but still, it's funny you list him as a villain!
Tom nook, a true villain of pure evil
tom nook is the true villian behind every evil thing
2:24 I think we can all agree that mr Rossetti is the true villain
"A villian of pure evil, like...The enchantress, Chaos, Blobos(?), Maleficent, Tom Nook."
"Lavos" (Chrono Trigger)
oh God I love the jab a tom nook being super evil villin...
kinda fits though considering how many loans he makes you go through...
He is more of a narrative villain though right?
Pretty much...
ah yes, tom nook
*T O M N O O K*
Cole Francis lmao
How about Kirby a cute lighthearted game with bosses that are literally demon spawns
haha Tom Nook
+Goatmon Probably the most spot-on example in the entire video. lol
2:24 tom nook lol
*_T O M N O O K I S S O E V I L_*
I knew I was not the only one to discover the corrupt and malicious practices of the vicious Tom Nook.
"say your game is a lighthearted fun experience in that case you might make your vilain comical or goofy" Then images of the eldritch horrors known as kirby's final bosses appears in my mind
That's what I was thinking of, but before that I thought of president haltmann.
TOM NOOK IS THE VILLAN? Yeah true
IAmCyanCat he steels ur monie he is a very bad
have you never played the game
Him: Tom nook
Me: wat I play animal crossing and... wat. *laughs*
2:17 the most evil of all...
Tom Nook
He lost the kids in the divorce.
damn you tom nook...
it took so long to buy those house upgrades
You can make the villain of a sweet and toony game the devil incarnate because that gives an excellent contrast to an entirely toony game. Also, you could make them try to suck up all the fun and lightheartedness of their world.
Dr. Robotnik is also a much better name than Dr. Eggman.
Western names do tend to be so.
You mean kirby?
Who else cracked up at "Tom Nook"
I lost it for a good ten seconds at "Tom nook"
there are some stories where the villain will have no backstory that he just shows up one day and nobody knows where he came from.
"Tom Nook." I couldn't help laughing when I heard this. Anyone mind giving me some context here?
Sounds like crabs from Sponge Bob
Zoomninja 3000 he used to be evil in old games, he does work the same but yes he was
TOM NOOK!! 😂😂😭
i should get a job at extra credits
so that way we fan have 4 dans in this series.
I straight up lost it at "tom nook"
Tom Nook?!? What's so evil about a 0% interest rate?
"Mechanics villains being used as narrative villains"
The final boss of FFIX. 'Nuff said.
Yeah. Tell me about it. I loved ff9... but holy shiet, what was that final boss about?
I actually want to forget it exists and just say Kuja is the final boss
I couldn't disagree more. Necron from FFIX was very appropriate. Perfect in fact. What he was was a personification of the main problem every character in the game faced: death; oblivion; the null-universe, as he calls it. In terms of a game, it looks like it comes out of nowhere, but every character had been battling with this demon the entire game. The confrontation with Necron is the climax of it all.
Axel Moonsong Yu Yevon was at least referenced in the games throughout the whole story.
Chris McCartney Here's the thing though. Every character had been battling it, but it's a problem that needs no personification. To me, it was completely unnecessary and made no sense to me. As an analogy, it'd be like everybody is suffering from depression, and at the end, you battle the end boss "depression personified". Personally, I didn't like it. It wasn't a narrative villain. It's the "personification" of the inner turmoil every character went through. It's overcoming those turmoils that made the characters interesting, but having it outright be a boss you had to fight instead of the characters growing through self actualization and all that, almost made it seem like it was completely unnecessary.
Plus, nobody is referencing Necron. Had someone been all like "ah, these feelings are caused by some entity we don't know about", then that would give him a bit of framework. Both narratively and mechanically, he comes out from nowhere. Cut him out, and the game is the exact same, only with the difference being that the characters overcome their problems in a more believable way.
That being said though, you are free to disagree. I'm just happy you were polite about it.
why'd you bring up the only fault in an otherwise flawless game. you're a meanie.
"Tom Nook"
as a Dungeon Master in training and aspiring author, I find these videos immensely helpful
the last time I ran a campaign in D&D, I had no idea how to write this big bad evil guy and kinda went a mix between the two options up there but with these videos I'll be able to make so much more
thanks Extra Credit, you are a teacher like I've never had
TOM NOOK!!! 😂😂😂 Aah, I'm dead!
Thinking about the antagonist in our last tabletop game and how I actually couldn't come up with a good counter argument to their final monolague beyond yelling about free will as axiom. Because at it's core our conflict was mostly over methodology than end goals. They weren't evil, just an otherwise good person who's need for control led them to do evil things....
They made Tom Nook jokes, 6 years ago
ILOVEU
I totally agree about Tom nook
"you might want to make a lighthearted game have a comical villan" HAVE YOU EVER PLAYED ANY OTHER KIRBY GAME THAN HE FIRST ONE?!
"Avatar of pure Evil"
"Tom Nook"
Good to know you guys play Debt Simulator AKA Animal Crossing
4 years after its inception, I'm seeing this vid for the first time and loling at the play on words at 2:57. Love EC.
Dioblo? No. Chaos? No.
THEN WHO IS IT?!?
Tom nook
Tom Nook... the most atrocious, most serious villain of them all XD
The "use all your abilities" parts is a very important part of helping leave people with a positive impression of the whole game. My friend just recently mentioned to me that when Infamous: Second Son had three main ability types, he was actually really disappointed to only use 2 of the 3 on the final boss. In contrast, Okami gave you 13 celestial brush gods; and Amaterasu has one ability herself. While not all of them are required, just about EVERY one of them can be put to some utility while fighting the game's final big bad. The game definitely left a positive impression from that.
"Intense gameplay scenario"
*Picture of a tent*
wait, what-
wait.
Intense.
*IN*
*TENTS*
I hope handsome jack from borderlands 2 gets featured. It is such an amazing villain. At the end of the storyline you will absolutly desire to kill him. And when he's dead throw his remains in a pool of acid. And if anything is still left after that, shoot him again and repeat the process. Holy hell, I hate that guy so much.
I thought the exact same thing my fellow vault hunter give me a good ol high five :D
*High-Fives*
I will admit that I would have to agree too for Handsome Jack being a great narrative villain. All throughout borderlands 2, you are given reason after reason why you want this guy dead. From the way he was able to manipulate you and outsmart you, to something that struck a chord with anyone who played two classes in the first borderlands. Still, it wasn't like he was a complete jerk though since we do see a softer side of Jack towards the end of the middle part, even though he was still a monster for what he did, but it did show that while he did that unspeakable thing, he still cared greatly if he actually wanted to protect it. (So hard to not spoil)
I loved Handsome Jack due to how much of an asshole he was. He was hilarious and evil and hopefully, the Pre-sequel will expand on this even further since it almost serves as an origin story for him as well with how he got to the position he did in Borderlands 2.
BloodyDIMISIS55
right!? i thought jack was funny, but muh bloodwing!
but yes handsome jack comes to mind also some final fantasy villains. i hope they touch on how villians who do what they think is right, always comes off as more realistic.
Yeah, Handsome Jack deserves to get featured in the 'narrative villains' category. So does SHODAN. Be interesting to see who they go for an example.
Lol, this reminds me of my high school. There were three Jusins. Including myself. And two of us had the same initials.
Justins rather.
When I was a kid I went to a summer camp that had another Adam B (my name). Since I had red hair and he had brown, I was known as Adam Tomatohead while he was known as Adam Potatohead.
I had 4 Viktor's and 3 Alexander's in my class -_-
Having a unique name,
Pro: Nobody else has your name
Con: Can't find name on keychains
...Tom...Nook?
Tom Nook???
TOOOOOOM NOOOOOOK!!!!
Fucking Tom Nook
I KNEW HE WAS PURE EVIL
Kirby franchise: haha let's put literal gods in an "E" game as final bosses
Tom nook
I died at Tom Nook
I wonder if Frank Fontaine from BioShock will be mentioned/featured in the next part. He was the first thing that came to my mind when he mentioned substituting mechanics villains for narrative ones, and he seems like a prime example of that.
Tom Nook?
Honestly, true.
Why is Glados a mechancis villain and not a narrative villain in your video?
Glad0s primarily serves to justify the action. Just because it's a mechanics villain doesn't mean it can't have a place in the narrative; Bowser kidnaps Peach, Neo Cortex experiments on Crash Bandicoot, and Dracula... well, Dracula is Dracula. Still, they serve the narrative less than they serve to exhibit the mechanics. Glad0s is a great example of this, as a character who literally runs the protagonist through a series of gameplay trials.
@@cheezball3327 Great essay, but it's GLaDOS; not Glad0s.
Pure evil- *Tom Luck* *WHEEZE*
2:24 Tom Noo...... wait WHAT
Kirby has a Lighthearted theme
but the Final Boss is True villain of pure evil.
There are a ton of dark, sometimes bloody villains that Kirby faces.
1:53 Inaccurate, Wheatley never shuts up
(hehehhehehe)
intense gameplay
*shows picture of tent*
intense gameplay...
in tense gameplay...
IN TENTS GAMEPLAY
NO.
STOP.
Daniel Oh no not another Dan DX (jk you guys rock Dan's 1, 2, and 3....I think there's 3)
Daniel OHMYGOD
"The Enchantress... Chaos... Lavos... Maleficent... Tom Nook."
I think reversing everything and playing as the villain makes for a better narrative.
Villain originally refers to any non-chivalrous individual (everyone not knighted or otherwise ennobled)
this later became a slur as it started referring to non-chivalrous behavior...
the actual word draws from the same root word as villager does and had similar meanings...
so i would make the villain the hero and make him a bit of a class hero... fighting wealthy super heroes in society where the rich oppress the poor.
the perfect example of this would be the "D-list super villain" series. (which would make a awesome game btw)
Tom Nook XD
The most evil of the list.
We will miss you leels! You did a great job on the series and we can't wait to see you around again.
So I really hope that you'll also do a part III, combining the two. Because that is where most villains fall apart.
3:27 BotW: Ummm... not always
Didn’t exist yet