I’m (mostly) happy with my Prusa XL - This is what it took
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ค. 2024
- Check out my 2nd channel, TT Racing: / @ttracingyt
The launch of the Prusa XL was delayed and problematic. My own difficulties were documented in a previous video. I’ve now modified and upgraded the printer to the latest spec, and thankfully it is now working much better. In this video, I take you through the process and identify where the XL excels and struggles versus the competition.
Thanks very much to Shane for his patience and support.
This printer was purchased with my own money. All opinions expressed are my own.
Prusa XL: www.prusa3d.com/product/origi...
0:00 Introduction
0:39 Recapping the state of the printer
Initial testing: • The 5 tool Prusa XL is...
Non-alpha firmware test: • Prusa XL update: Was t...
XL slicer update: • Add 3D logos and text ...
1:51 Updates from Prusa
Prusa Buddy board gcode: help.prusa3d.com/article/budd...
Product page with updated specs: www.prusa3d.com/en/product/or...
0.4mm nozzles: www.prusa3d.com/en/product/pr...
3:01 Contact with Prusa
1440 Makers channel: / @1440makers
3:45 Filament dryness
No prime tower multi-material video: • Original Prusa XL - tr...
4:47 Changes and modifications
Prusa XL fan shroud by Livius: www.printables.com/model/6221...
Cooling fan torture test: www.printables.com/model/1801...
0.4mm nozzles: www.prusa3d.com/en/product/pr...
Nozzle changing guide: help.prusa3d.com/guide/how-to...
Prusa XL printable parts: www.printables.com/model/4495...
Lubricating pins: help.prusa3d.com/guide/how-to...
I also printed this front nozzle scrubber but I might not need it anymore:
www.printables.com/model/6448...
8:56 Print results
3DBenchy: www.3dbenchy.com/
Part cooling torture test:
Mandalorian bust by iczfirz: www.printables.com/model/2154...
Marlin multi material remix by Cipis: www.printables.com/model/5480...
Boxing gloves by Mosaic Manufacturing: www.thingiverse.com/thing:346...
Miami Heat lightbox by Geek Genius Collective: makerworld.com/en/models/9445...
Reducing AMS waste video: • Reducing waste from Ba...
4D Printing video: • 4D Printing at home - ...
12:36 Octoprint and webcam
Octoprint setup guide: help.prusa3d.com/guide/octopr...
Prusa XL Magnetic Camera Mount remix by Breit Ideas Incorporated: www.printables.com/model/7897...
3030 Cable Clip (Profile Cover) by bequ3: www.printables.com/model/2162...
Octoremote app: play.google.com/store/apps/de...
13:39 Newest alpha firmware
Firmware download: github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firm...
14:22 Would I recommend the XL to others?
Dropped toolhead video: • Prusa XL 5-Toolhead Dr...
Prusa XL announcement blog: blog.prusa3d.com/original-pru...
16:24 Conclusion
Buy quality and affordable filament from X3D. Buy 3, get 1 free and a free sample pack with every order: www.x3d.com.au
Get Quality Resins from 3D Printers Online. 5% off storewide for Teaching Tech subscribers [Code: tech5]
3dprintersonline.com.au/
Take a look around and if you like what you see, please subscribe.
Support me on Patreon: / teachingtech
I couldn't imagine spending 5000+ USD on a half finished project. I think you handled this as well as you could. Thanks for the info.
100%
And this is why I built a Voron and ERCF. I don't mind fiddling with a $1k setup, but for $5k I'd expect a perfect out of the box experience.
@@f8haus He paid his own money for this printer.
@@f8haus Thats pretty absurd considering that negative reviews hurt channels more than help financially speaking.
You are basically reverse engineering a reason to call him out that doesnt make sense in the real world.
What you describe only makes sense when you become a mass misinformation and clickbait channel like LTT, not at as his scale or for his audience.
I will agree that I would not even tentatively recommend them though.
@@f8haus Geeze, you must be fun at parties. Let me break this down for you.
1. From what I understand, sponsors pay better and are more reliable than relying on the ad revenue you get from videos. Bad reviews can cost a channel money.
2. Drama does sell, but that isn't what this channel is about. It's a channel that, much like Maker's Muse, is built on showcasing 3d-printers as tools for solving problems. People come here for an informed opinion or to learn about CAD, engineering, and related topics. Basically, he's likely to lose viewers if he chases drama, and I would be one of them. Which leads me to...
3. Given that Michael has built a good chunk of his channel on trust and being honest, it would be damn stupid of him to throw it all away for a quick payday. Sure, he could probably make good for a video, maybe two, but after that his revenue will dry up. People aren't going to pay someone to push stuff if there's no audience, and given the kind of audience Michael has, he does have a long-term financial incentive to be open and honest about his struggles and his recommendations.
Did he get great support? Yes. Was he offered a free printer after the XL turned out to be a dud? Also yes. Those things don't mean that he is trying to push a piece of crap on us.
I haven't watched the video in its entirety yet, but I have watched his other videos on the XL. He's been nothing but honest, so trying to impute some ulterior motive to this smacks of jealousy and trollish behavior on your part.
I like the subtle humor, printing the Finding Nemo fish and orange sushi.
It was too subtle for me, I didn't even notice lol!
Fish aren't the same color inside
@propheteyebert7063 Wouldn't the flesh of the Finding Nemo fish (clown fish) be pink / off-white instead of orange?
They announced the switched to 0.4mm nozzles 6 days after I got my XL.
Even with the 30% discount, having to buy them is not a way to keep good will with customers.
True, bambu gave all buyers for their anniversary 2 free filaments and during the A1 problems a 120$ voucher
At this point Im convinced they dont care about goodwill with their customers. I bought a MK4 after having other Prusa printers and they sent me a lemon. The filament rapidly twists causing prints to fail after a couple hours unless you manually unwind the twist and it has massive heatbed issues every print I've done to warp beyond use. On top of those issues the print quality is complete garbage. It is so incredibly terrible that I couldn't pay people to take prints that come from that machine. To the point though, I have been FIGHTING Prusa for 7 MONTHS now to warranty the machine and they will not!! Its been a constant battle of them saying that it's better for them if they can identity the single source of the problem rather than sending me a new machine. I said I dont care whats better for you! I care that you sent me a trash machine 7 months ago and I paid the bill for it! Personally, I'll never do business with them again. They do enough right that they seem great on the surface but you go to forums and comment sections and you always hear stories of people getting screwed over by them.
Sure, but with a little research, one would find that this is actually a generous outcome from Prusa.
Taking back promises, then acting like the good guys by giving customers what they paid for.
Blaming customers for poor communications from the company...
A discount to fix the high priced machine? At least that's a positive.
I would have just returned the printer at that point.. and bought a new one.. lol
Your patience is biased by your TH-cam presence. Your initial experience with the printer was frustrating. Despite investing a significant amount of money, the printer struggled with basic tasks, leaving you quite disappointed. Over time, the results improved, although they still fall short of what you should expect. Nevertheless, you find solace in the fact that you are at least getting something out of it. However, I believe Prusa should be held more accountable for these issues. As a prominent player in the 3D printing industry, they can’t rely on their past reputation as a small, scrappy company. If this were a CNC milling machine, you would have returned it without hesitation.
When they revealed the XL I was very tempted, but given Prusa's track record I thought I'd probably wait for the inevitable XL Mk3S+ in a couple of years. Thanks to all the early adopters that will hopefully iron out all these issues in the meantime.
This, people act like the reputation Prusa has with the standard machines wasn't built up by over a decade of incremental improvements. This is the nature of 3d printing, you simply won't ever see new technology and capabilities with the reliability and consistency expected of established hardware/software. All the alternatives people point to are pre established designs that have significant development time behind them. In short, if reliability is your biggest concern, stay away from new technology.
@@DrewLSsix People want products these days. Prusa gives you a project for close to the cost of a small car.
@@DrewLSsix All the alternatives are pre established technology? There are like 5 other printers using load cells that dont have issues. There are companies that have launched first layers scans which havent negatively affected the experience even while not perfect. There are printer designs built more like desktop computers allowing for rigid core xy frames for far more affordable prices.
There are companies that release new technology without massive defficiencies.
It absolutely does not have to be 3d printing.
@@DrewLSsix ...are pre established designs BY PRUSA!! That's the most important part newcomers doesn't learn to appreciate
@@DrewLSsix Everybody just dreams of being a beta tester for a printer for 5k $
even them calling it "fully assembled" instead "mostly assembled" doesn't sit well with me. I've seen people who do 3D printing YT videos for a living say it took more than 3 hours to finish assembling the "fully assembled" printer. If it was less than 20 minutes to get it running, I can see calling it "fully assembled", but not multiple hours.
I think the main reason people have said they bought prusa printers in the past it was because of "just working", and it being a trust worthy company. It doesn't seem like the XL offers either of those things. I am so glad I went with a Bambu. Maybe in a few years, they will make an XL without all the problems, that comes actually assembled, has a proper enclosure, and a camera in it like almost every modern descent printer not made by them.
Reputations take a long time to build, but sometimes just a moment to fall apart.
Before Bambu Labs, they could have gotten away with this, but not anymore.
Now they are focusing a lot on schools and commercial clients. Makerbot did the same thing, and they are now pretty irrelevant in the consumer space. I wonder if prusa is going to follow suit.
I totally agree when you say, "I think the main reason people have said they bought prusa printers in the past it was because of "just working", and it being a trust worthy company. It doesn't seem like the XL offers either of those things." I would add to the scope of the statement though. Those are reasons I bought a MK3 and then jumped on a quick order for a MK4 but as you say, the days of "just working" and "trustworthy company" are over. The MK4 they sent me is a total lemon, riddled with issues that result in it not being able to produce useable prints at all!! I have been fighting with customer service for SEVEN MONTHS to get them to get them to warranty the machine and they will not!! Its been a constant battle of them saying that it's better for them if they can identity the single source of the problem and replace that rather than sending me a new machine. I said I dont care whats better for you! I care that you sent me a trash machine 7 months ago and I paid the bill for it! Personally, I'll never do business with them again. They do enough right that they seem great on the surface but you go to forums and comment sections and you always hear stories of people getting screwed over by them. I wish I would have been more vocal about it to friends and family earlier on so they could have shopped elsewhere. Im just waiting for their machines to have problems so I can talk to my therapist about it.
It reminds me of a company like Tesla. Be first to market with a good product that creates momentum. But rather than building on top of that and keep pushing development and cut pricing, they just stick with the same concept, while other companies are catching up and overtaking them. In panic they start to react with a similar concept that is already well established by other companies and fail at some basics.
I'm very frustrated, bambu labs has the printer I want... But I really, really, really hate walled garden bs...
As a Prusa owner, I'm very disappointed in the release of the XL and how they've handled all the issues that have come up.
We all should expect better, especially for a printer at that price, that isn't even enclosed.
I hope Bambu does a large size, with multi-nozzle printing, so we can see what the competitors can do.
Nah I hope Creality does lol
@@krollmond7544 Creality only knows how to copy lol.
It's the cybertruck of printers.
@@parsonk4041 Oh god. That is definitely not a good thing.
Been laughing at all the videos of people taking the cybertruck off road and it getting stuck or breaking down. Absolutely hilarious. A pickup truck that can't pickup truck.
@@krollmond7544 hell no, creality are useless in every way
I am halfway through this video and it is very clear that this printer's value is nowhere near the 5k price tag. I admire his patience. This clunker would have been a return to sender the first week for me.
Funny my clunker is turning out awesome prints in great time. I print in PLA & PETG on a regular basis. It just works.
As I said in the video, I would hope that most people have printers without troubles. But there are still too many people who have had trouble, and too many features being added well after release.
@@mehmeh533Doesn't change the fact that a lot of people did see major QC problems. "Well *I* didn't have an issue" is a meme of a bad response on tech forums for a reason.
If someone assembling a Voron is expected to be able to align 4 Z-rails (not 2, 4, and there's no self-alignment - do it yourself to within about 0.05 degree deviation or suffer issues with a flying gantry), then I fully expect Prusa, with actual professional tools and engineers, to be able to put 2 linear rails on aligned to spec.
Exactly. That wobbing z screw is absolutely unacceptable for a 5000 dollar printer that was "professionally" assembled, that he paid more money for. Absolutely unexcusable.
@@TeachingTech I am taking a sterner tack with printing manufacturers these days. I think the 3d printing industry in general is too cavalier about the "out of the box" experience for their customers because they historically sold to hobbyists that were willing to hack on the printers to get them working. The market is moving to "normal consumers" and the industry (in many cases) has not realized that fact. It is hidebound.
You nailed it with the AAA video game analogy. This is simply too expensive and bug ridden for a product that's supposed to carry the prusa name. The amount of tinkering and trouble shooting you had to do would make even creality printers cringe. Bambu Lab really shook up the 3d printing landscape. All these other printer manufacturers really need to take note and try to be more competitive. I've been 3d printing for about 5 years now, and never has my experience gone as smoothly as it has with my A1 mini. Being "closed" isn't the boogeyman that a lot of 3d printing early adopters think it is, and being "open" doesn't always mean accessible to all.
Hi!
Thanks for the update video and honest opinion. I’m glad that after all the struggles, the XL received your recommendation and I wish you many successful multi-material prints with minimal or no waste.
I have to say, I’m sorry you had problems with the printer. To me, it seems at least some of the problems are caused by a defective unit or some shipping damage. Although I admire your decision to repair it yourself, I want to point out that we provide a warranty. After basic troubleshooting with support, we would have exchanged it for a new piece (of course, we cover the shipping costs in such cases).
Please don't underestimate dry filaments: XL thrives with dry filaments because the tool heads are kept warm when waiting for their turn, and while the temperatures are not as high, there is plenty of time for the water to evaporate. This is similar to your nozzle oozing when left heated even without pushing new material in.
Any plans for supporting various nozzle sizes?
Probably not an interesting video if your issues get solved by talking to support like a normal user.
You mention the tool heads being left heating being the cause of the XL stringing with wet filament, while completely ignoring the fact that he was having insane stringing with a single color, single material, and single tool head. A material that printed flawlessly on his other printers.
If your PLA has to be bone dry to print without stringing on the XL, but prints perfectly cleanly on other printers - that is a probably with YOUR printer, not a problem with the filament.
I have had problems with my 5 head XL, but am fortunate that I did not need prints right away. Got to spend the time and had help from Chris Riley to get most of the issues resolved. The software updates have been very helpful and I think we will see more soon
Your last phrase describes very accurately Prusa's current situation. Support is basically the only thing they have going for them right now
…and short of E3D’s Toolchanger and that one OS Design, the only Multi-Toolhead Printer. Also the Load Cell Thing, although utility of that vs a well calibrated printer is debatable.
I do agree at the end of the day though they need to up the game a bit. Also maybe expand filament production / machine production?
@@ericlotze7724 "Also the Load Cell Thing, although utility of that vs a well calibrated printer is debatable."
Strongly disagree. This ignores that calibrating a printer is a pain, and so features automating this are a big plus.
You have to consider user experience.
@@BeefIngot i agree, I didn’t buy anything like an Ender 3 for this exact reason.
I’m just being a devil’s advocate and saying *in theory* your PINDA / BL Touch / Inductive sensors and stuff *should* work about as well, although i think the Loadcell is one of the more novel methods.
Open source, great part availability/reliability/upgradeability. Those are what get me.
@@yonallb reliability? Didn't you watch this video? Open source? Ok, if you would like to support that it's Ok but that's not an immediate advantage that translate's directly into better experience for the customers. Upgradability? Ok, that's fine, I just want my printer to print. Bambu Lab is closed source but there are aftermarket options already. Upgradability in the XL means expending more money on top of thousands just to make it work. The XL is not a success or a finished product.
Brilliant! I’m glad to see it working well.
As a Prusa XL owner, I think this was a very fair review. I still have some stringing/blobbing esp with PETG, but am hoping the new firmware and filament settings will get us squared away. I used to count on my mk3 to print reliably and I need that confidence back.
You shouldn't apply loctite directly to screws when there's nearby plastic. Put a drop on a tray, then use a toothpick to put a drop on the screw. Loctite makes plastic brittle.
Excellent video and review. Very informative
Thanks for reviewing this one mate. Looks like I'll be waiting for Bambu's XL printer.
hard but fair, I do value your opinion, keep the good work
Just a reminder to everyone that you can get literally any other printer and THREE HUNDRED rolls of filament (more if getting a bulk deal) for the cost of an XL 5 Head. Please consider this before telling me about the savings the XL has on filament 'waste' as opposed to other filament swapping mechanisms. What does waste actually mean to you? Because for me, waste and savings are directly related to dollarydoos in the bank.
It's a valid point. If someone were to get one now, and were running a print farm or a similar operation of scale, the time/material savings may be worthwhile over time.
@@TeachingTech I can understand that to some degree, the XL is a good machine, but the reliability and redundancy of a small farm of P1S combos would probably still outweigh it in the long term as well (about 6 P1SC per XL)
I share your wish for multi-nozzle size support. I'm hopeful to see this in an upcoming firmware and slicer update, but not holding my breath. And I totally agree with your discouragement of preordering another Prusa. The pre-order still took two years, and didn't prove to be a bargain in any way. This was my first Prusa order, and despite the anxiety of the wait and frustration of critical further development after delivery, Prusa still ranks highest in my book (so far). I do recommend that Prusa continue to develop the XL into perfection, while QUIETLY developing their next mind blowing release and to not open up to preorders until it's actually in production. Next wish (largely self serving, I'll admit), is that they expanded a manufacturing facility somewhere within the Americas in order to satisfy demand and lower shipping costs. Thanks, Michael, for another great video!
As for loading very flexible filament, a technique I used to get past the side filament sensor is to push through a bit of PLA filament first to get the ball out of the way, then push in the flexible filament behind it.
My first printer was a PRUSA MK3+. I ran it for 3 years and then sold it and bought a Bam Bu Lab X1. I am still a 3D rookie but I can say that X1 worked from day 1 and after 5 months I am still vey happy with it. I was on the waiting list for the PRUSA XL but when I saw all the troubles I cancelled the order. I am glad I did. Yes it uses lots more filament, but for us rookie printers life is very happy..
I disagree that phase stepping doesn't make things quieter. You can turn on and off the feature in the menu while printing to hear the difference. Phase stepping makes a massive noise improvement on everything but the fast moves. The stealth mode they mention in the release notes is for the mk4.
I had stringing issues on my MK4 and I changed the Z hop to ramping. Travel Lift: Lift height .2, max lift 1.5, ramp slope 1. This got rid of all my stringing issues.
Ramping is enabled by default if you are using latest PrusaSlicer.
Weird, my MK$ has been flawless - way better with stringing than the Mk3.
Yip. My Mk4 had horrible stringing at first. Took a bit of simple tuning to clean up, but expected much better of the bat compared to previous experiences with MK3, and Mini. I also ditched the Prusa Nozzles, and went for the adapter, and standard E3D nozzles, cheaper, and don't require disassembly to change.
@@HackMonkey I’m waiting till I clog my nozzle to make the switch
Yes. I agree that Prusa should send early adopters (at least of the 5-tool units) who received 0.6mm the 0.4mm nozzles. We went through hassles to get this printing half-way decent.
They have fantastic support and boy do they need it.
lol
I respectfully disagree. I was sent a MK4 that is a complete lemon (has yet to print one single usable print) and I have been fighting customer service for *7 months* to get them to replace it. They admit it's broken but said that "its better for us if we can figure out what parts to send rather than sending you a new printer." Haha! Im sure it is better for THEM but not for ME the customer! Im seven months into owning a MK4 that cant even print cause they want to fix my lemon printer over chat and send me some parts! Thats not customer service, thats using me as free labor to trouble shoot a brick of a printer. (for the record my career is in customer service for a software company. Taking care of the customer doesnt mean fixing their problem, it means making it go away as fast as possible. Sometimes you figure out the issue fast and fixing the issue also makes it go away but there are times when fixing the issue isnt going to be fast and in those situations you do whatever you have to do to restore the customer to working order and *you* pay the metaphorical bill for it, *not* them.)
Only chat apparently, take like 10 days to get an answer by email..
A TH-camr that buys the product and gives honest review. That’s rare. You’ve earned a subscriber. Keep up the good work
I've had many 3D printers including a Prusa i3 MK3 which I upgraded to MK3S and I never had any issues with. Now I got a Bambu Lab X3C and I've never looked back. Sold the Prusa printer as I didn't use it anymore. Sad to hear about the issues regarding XL. Maybe Prusa is being overtaken...
agreed for the nozzle question :)
Crazy that you needed to do all this on a 5000$+ machine, imagine buying a car and needing to tinker with it for so long just to get it to work.
The end result is indeed very impressive and there's really nothing like it on the market.
Prusa's pricing is disconnected to reality, I guess when Bambu comes up with something like that it would be much cheaper and probably will work out of the box.
I have had similar issues with mine, and like you some have gotten better with the same fixes. Some still have yet to be fixed. I agree that for the money, I would absolutely not buy this printer, i love the idea of the multi-tool xl and hope prusa can perfect it, or if not them, then someone else. While it was easy to contact support and they tried to help with some of the issues, when they couldn't fix others instead of offering a repair or replace they just told me to wait for future software updates that will hopefully fix it. I'll admit i was a bit of a prusa fan boy before this endeavor, I am no longer...
I loved the Ayrton senna t-shirt!! love from Brazil!
Good to see that Prusa is stamping out the nagging bugs. The XL is waaay out of my price bracket but I appreciate the R&D they're putting into it and the potential for that to trickle down into more affordable and mainstream printers over the next few years.
Appreciate your videos. Our XL is running pretty well at the time being. Stringing is definitely the major issue along with the long pre-print times to combat nozzle ooze. Other than that pretty satisfied. More frustrated with our MK4 prints being lower quality than our mk3s
I will add my voice to the chorus that mine was stringing far too much on the first print. HOWEVER, after dropping the temp for PLA to 198c it seems to have resolved all my issues. I have to say, now it is printing spectacularly. Love your videos.
I've gone back and forth, from "ugh, this thing is NOT ready" to "wow, I want one" seeing YGK3D's results... to now, "I dodged a bullet on this one." I want a tool changer 3D printer very badly, but... I think just watching you have to install a webcam and use Octoprint (gosh, I haven't used that thing in years) killed it for me. I'm over this printer... for this week.
I am excited, though, for other companies to come out with tool changers...
While I could say it is sad to see a company like Prusa Research going the way of Creality, they deserve it. They allowed themselves to be put in a situation where they had no choice but rush half-finished products to the market since they were so busy buying companies and technologies nobody asked nor cared for. If this printer had come out like this but was priced at half the price and with the clear indication that some features were still being worked on, people would complain but not to this amount. We're no longer in the era of the early Makerbot machines and people expect a printer which costs 5 grand to work out of the box. I'd rather have a Bambu X1e or X1C with 4 AMS modules instead. Sure, it isn't the new fangled 5 head new kid in town, but it works. Also, I don't agree Prusa's support is any better than anyone else's. It just happens that you receive better support because you are an TH-camr with some reasonable audience size which could in theory give bad press to Prusa Research if you wanted to.
Great update and feedback. I hope you do another one in a few months as a final follow-up. Very expansive printer. Should work right out of the box. I won't purchase one until it does.
Your conspiracy theories are baseless on my channel. I have no interest in making a follow up unless something significant changes, which I wouldn't expect it to.
I have zero ties to them. Never got anything for free, never asked for anything for free. No affiliate account, nothing. I'm a three time customer personally, and ran a few more Prusas at my school when I was a teacher. There is zero reason to question my integrity unless you fabricate things.
@@TeachingTech don't feed the troll !
I can't get passed the price!
In the USA it’s a *bit* less bad, but it’s still pretty major!
Granted a HevORT or the OS Toolchanger Options won’t be ultra-cheap either (Probably a bit less expensive perhaps)
It's Aussie dollars but yes. Think about all the parts you can buy for that money to build your own.
It looks like multi-color, multi-material printing needs to mature a lot more. More competition will drive prices down and quality up. Thanks for saving me a lot of money.
Thank you for a clear and detailed video. I considered buying PrusaXL, to upgrade my Prusa mini - a perfect robust printer. Yet it seems, as you and others claim, that the XL was premature released. While it brings innovation, it is not equipped with basic technologies like a camera. Perhaps it would be better to wait for Bamboo to release a multicolor multi heads solution. Prusa needs to change their marketing approach and consider the simple people as a valuable customers. I am going to wait.
11:48 I converted my nextruder and side filament sensors to magnetic versions as described in the prusa forum post called "XL filament sensor mod for tpu" on the first page of the thread. I also made new nextruder filament guide parts to help prevent the ability of TPU to move around and get behind the nextruder gear causing a jam. Those model files are located on printables just search for "XL nextruder main plate and idler lever for flex filament". After these changes I am able to very easily feed and print ninjaflex 85A tpu. I also changed my nextruder filament sensor in my MK4 to magnetic instead of the spring. The kit version i got comes with a spare magnet that can be used for it.
I came across that thread. I'm debating if I want to do the magnet mod or tweak the springs.
What is your volumetric speed with the Ninjaflex a85 TPU on the Prusa XL?
I have to print that filament quite a lot for work on a Bambu Lab X1C and anything above 1.7mm³/s volumetric speed eventually leads to issues and skipping in the extruder.
@@jakob.k_design I was able to run in with stock prusa slicer settings and brass 0.4 nozzles but changed to 2-2.5 for more consistency. I also increased my extrusion multiplier to 1.2 and my retraction length to 5mm which helped to prevent stringing.
this seems like a nightmare for anyone not extremely in the know about 3d printing. wish they could be more competitive with the likes of bambulab... a printer of this cost should just work out of the box, especially if you pay for the assembled model.
With prusa slicer I always had lots of issue with stringing and oozing on my 500x500 printer especially with a large nozzle. The only solution there is to be able to vary the filament retraction and prime length independently , and according to the length of travel. So I use cura with a plugin called "scalable extra prime" and a post processing script called "retract continue"
The price of this thing is insane for how much of a school project it is
Very interesting indeed! Thanks for the update, Michael! 😊
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
And I have been waiting and I will wait soon. In July, creality will sweep away the competition K2 PLUS multicolor 😁
I got a Prusa Mini+ and I had a time getting it to work because of the Z-offset settings. It did work once I figured that out. I have to say, I agree that this isn't up to par with its price tag based on what I have seen, and I think I'd rather go the Voron/ERCF route if I'm going to need to do this much to the printer. The 350mm V2 and Trident are the same size, I think, so you wouldn't really be giving up any space either.
Overall, I think you've been incredibly fair and honest here.
Very nice review and troubleshooting. That price tag feels high. Equivalent of three X1 carbon combos. The low filament waste is good. Keep up the good content!
That are significantly smaller and don't have tool change. You gotta realize that it's very different machine for very different purposes.
True. More professional grade. Just seems excessive for price for equivalent print outputs excluding waste differences. @@jothain
@@gibsonsimpson Yes. I gotta agree that this release should've been postponed to fix issues. Prusa seemed to hurry way too much mk4 and xl releases.
"I've only ever spent more in my life on things like houses and cars." Ouch...no XL for me. Perfectly happy with my X1C and old MK3s+ which I'm looking to offload since it prints at a snails pace compared to my Bambu. Thanks for these videos!
I always learn so much from your videos. Now I need a Prusa XL
Did we watch the same video?
Your Senna gear will always be a highlight of any video! Love the feedback on the XL! The comparison to a AAA video game is on the money. Thankfully Prusa isn't Activision so we can count on them to fix the problems instead of gaslighting the whole community.
Great review update! Such a shame about the quality for such a beloved company! Still if money was no option I'd buy all prusa instantly :D
Agree with your assessment. For me, I am ready to sell mine which has had very little use.
They won't take it back?
Never thought to ask@@Bornmong
I really was considering Prusa XL, but price and performance were main factors. I ended up getting the X1 Carbon with 2 AMS units.
Not happy with Bambu being a Chinese owned company and cloud servers so I had to add it to my untrusted network which is locked down with a VLAN to segregate network traffic via OPNSense firewall.
I just updated X1Plus community firmware yesterday and working really good. I now moved printer to my regular network while blocking Internet access.
But... I really like the Prusa 5 hot-head design, but much to expensive for what I use it for. Reviews were not stellar which was a decided factor.
I may consider Prusa in the future.
This aligns pretty well with my experience on a 2 tool XL, and unfortunately it made me extremely weary of buying another prusa. For a couple of months I felt like I was just wasting materials feeding this thing filament, so much stringing, warping, and I was having horrible layer adhesion even with PLA on a textured plate. And as good as prusa support is, being told my filament isn't good quality or isn't dry enough just rubs me the wrong way.
It's at least reliable after the firmware updates and I do trust prusa to fix things... eventually. I just don't like that I'm basically beta testing this stuff and still paying full price. Hell, even the extras they gave for pre-orders felt a little cheap, sure an extra build plate is nice but a single v6 adapter?? I had to buy a second one for my other extruder, if I had a 5 tool I would be out nearly $100 before I even get nozzles. Feels like BMW where every little extra has it's own up-charge on an already expensive product. The XL is a terrible value when other companies are including an enclosure, extra hotends, and a damn webcam for a cheaper price.
I really hope prusa can improve quickly, there are clearly some very talented engineers because the XL is honestly a work of art hardware wise. A giant cantilevered gantry is no small feat to pull off, and when prints do work, the level of quality is astonishing. It's a damn shame this launch has been so messy, I hope they turn things around and support their customer base the same way we have supported them for years. A soft spot in the hearts of makers isn't going to keep them relevant forever.
Glad I cancelled my preorder. I’m anxiously awaiting a Bambu XL model. My X1C has been flawless and is, by far, the most reliable and most used of my 10+ printers…. I have long been a Prusa fan, but they really need to figure out how to compete in the post-BambuLab era. I recently had to replace a hot-end in my Mk3s and was considering using it as an opportunity to upgrade to the Mk3.9 or 4, but given that I can buy a fully-assembled P1P for the same price, it just makes no sense.
At least they offered you free nozzles and a replacement printer. If it was any average consumer who put their faith in Prusa, that wouldn’t be offered. Good to see how they treat their regular customers instead of the ones being rightly critical on TH-cam.
Honestly, I think this is a big nail in Prusa’s metaphorical coffin, and if they don’t shape up quickly the forward direction of 3D printing is going to leave them behind.
Well, thanks for this. I think I just delayed purchase. of the XL for a good while based on your video. I do have to agree that Prusa support is just fantastic. I just upgraded my MK3S to an MK4, and frankly, I had some strange issues (my fault of course) that I would not have been successful rectifying without their excellent online support. For me, this makes all the difference. I love building and upgrading my printers, but when I get stuck, I really appreciate the extra support. This level of support is perhaps not as important to the die-hard DYI gurus who are experienced builders of a Voron or RatRig, but for me, the support more than justifies the premium pricing. All that said, it still appears to me that Prusa released the XL too soon - at least for people forking out $5K with expectations that it will perform as advertised.
Really wish you had the same experience as me as my XL has been working flawlessly since the start but i did get the semi assembled version so built a lot of it myself. I do agree though we should have got the .4 nozzles for free. Also the latest firmware has actually quietened down my printer a lot. Oh forgot to mention as well there is a brilliant design on printables of the filament sensor which swaps out the springs for magnets, makes it so much easier to push the filament through.
do you have a link?
This was an exhaustive review. Thank you so much for all of your hard work. My opinion, your final recommendation is a little confusing. I think at this point, you should accept a new unit so that you can see what it is. People will be getting right now when they buy it. I think that the machine you have does not represent the current market, but I may be wrong.
Too be honest, I have my XL for a month now, I cannot complain at all ...
No stringing, no blobs, nothing...
Except for one model everything I printed had combinations of multiple materials ... PLA+PETG (supports, or vice versa) mainly but also PLA+TPU ...
this video just saved me 4000$ thanks 🙏🏻
Thanks for this video. The only part I needed to hear was 0:36 "pretty close to satisfied" ... I for myself will try the Formbot Marathon. Maybe 2 independent tools are enough. I would like to see a notable streamer to test the Marathon... pretty please 🙂
The pebbler wiper works great on the e3d tool changer. They should have implemented a version of that.
I've gotten very lucky, mine arrived after all the updates and changes. It drastically changes how you view the machine. However, I have to agree that anyone considering buying should really weight this heavily as it is very pricy and things like multiple nozzle size aren't here yet. I'm very curious who is going to launch a toolchanger competitor, bambu? Creality?
tbh the thing with the nozzles is that you now say that Prusa should have provided the 0.4mm Nozzels to the early buyers to bring it to the new spec and then there are other content creators that complaint that a printer that size (bsically evey printer 300x300x300mm³ and larger) should come with a 0.6mm Nozzle by default (and yes they even said it about the Prusa XL)
so it's the classic case of "doesn't matter how you do it you do it wrong"
Not true at all.
If you melt plastic enough and move the head fast enough always prefer smaller to larger for accuracy.
The problem is the mechanism is overly clunky and not rigid enough to support those speeds.
The other big problem is that in theory 0.6 should work, but clearly they didnt test it enough and work out the issues.
0.4 with IS has basically same speed than 0.6 on the XL ... The 0.6 nozzles have no benefits... The flow won't get bigger than on the 0.4 and thus not faster, only high flow nozzles could make a difference again...
@@MichaelKasch Comparing non is with is to me doesnt make much sense because why would one ever not use it?
As for high flow, evert decent printer has some form of higher than what used to be standard flow nozzles.
My buddy spent 3x the price of the Creality printer I recommended him because he was convinced by fanboys online that Prusas "just work". Here I am 2 years later with the same ender 3 pro chugging along perfectly and his printer completely out of commission. He's had problem after problem after problem after problem. I spent 3 hours at his house attempting to get CFPC made by Prusa that was fully dry to print correctly and we never got it working.
While it's in its infancy, and it does take a skilled builder, I think lots of people who are willing to spend as much as it costs to buy a prusa XL would be happier building a voron 2.4 with the tap changer mod. 1-6 tools can be mounted on the 350mm V2, and you can build a smaller one if you prefer with fewer tools. I think the 300mm spec will fit 5 tools. But the quality of the extruders and tools is up to the builder with most choosing orbiter2 and dragonburner tool head with either rapido hf or uhf and ldo speedypower motors. Very fast, very quiet, lots of cooling.
Tool changers and flying gantries dont mix very well. But then nor does it with fixed gantries. Its all about the firmware. Prusa is pretty slow and behind with theirs.
@@Festivejelly I think flying gantry makes sense for a toolchanger because you can store your tools up and out of the way instead of being limited to a tight 2d space.
@@Festivejelly they done quite solid with Mk3 series firmware/slicer changes. Though yeah, this xl release seem to be hurried as mk4 did. Seems they underestimated quite severely time needed for adjustments.
@@jothain Eh, Prusa has a long track record of doing exactly this. Launch a printer, it's very promising but has clear issues that should have been caught in testing, and fix them later to come up with an extremely solid printer a year or so from release
@@FAB1150 I didn't encounter any issues with Mk3. Some apparently had filament detection problems. I never encountered them.
I am fairly new to 3D printing but I love the mix of fun and practical printing. I have a Bambu X1C. My only issue is print size limitations. What larger printer do you recommend? I am not concerned with multiple color printing at this time. Also, where did you get the Mandalorian file. It’s very cool.
I’m very very glad I went with an X1C rather than a prusa. Far better printers at a lower price.
I remember when I accidentally launched of the x carriage and the linear rail bearings went flying. Putting them back wasn't the issue. The problem was finding those dam balls. Still find some this days.
The thing has so much potential. I would suggest everyone just wait a little longer. Remember the mk3 launch, everything went tits up, but tody it has years as one of the most reliable printers on the market. The mk4 had similar issues at launch with its first layer for example, but thaz seems mostly fixed now. Not only is the xl a way more complex machine than the mk4, its also the first of its kind from prusa while the mk4 is a further refinememt of the tried and true mk3. Give it time. As bad a reputation prusa has with undercoocked producta as launch, as good is their reputation to actually deliver fixes, upgrades and long term support for all their products. I net if anyone buys a new xl in 1-2 years of time they will have an amazing machine.
Random thought: would it be possible to use a more complex pattern of the infill as a purging area ?
I bought the semi assembled version (also pre order) but got a 0.4mm version. Lubing and the other calibration you did is all mentioned in the manual.
You realize that the manual changes literally all the time right?
People are getting wildly different printers out of the factory based on the date they bought them.
If I had been a later order things would have been quite different for me. I would hope almost every new user has a good experience now.
@@BeefIngot sure, but then this video is almost invalid by the time it’s released. If things and points have been adressed, it’s more like an Early Pre-Order experience and/or only of historic value.
I was pointing that out.
@@TeachingTech Mine was March 2023, so I was early but not so early as you I guess.
I also assume, since I had the semi-assembled version and had to read the updated manual, a lot of things were fixed before I even turned it on.
So far the XL has been very good, with the only two flaws remaining: the nextruder really likes a clean nozzle for probing (same on MK4). And the flexible filament issue, you mentioned. For me it was enough to bypass the filament sensor and then it worked flawlessly.
I noticed that the filament sensors are differently built, there is even a difference in resistance between the channels on the same one. I’m waiting for a design that lets us adjust the pressure…
with the bust it would be neat to see an actual iron content pla, so you could rust it. or a multi material print that had a wood fill, to take a stain and metal to rust or polish!
Christ, what a pain in the rear. The only mod I did on my Bambu X1C was print a rack to keep the AMS about 5 inches over the top glass. I was getting occasional filament jams when not using some AMS rolls for a while because the heat from the X1C was causing filament to distort in the tubes. After making this heat break, I have not had one jam on the unit. I think the only failures I have had are related to making mistakes in the slicer. I don't worry about printing anymore and can concentrate on iterations of design. I can't see the reason to pay more than 3 times the X1C/AMS for faster multicolor printing (and not filling up a poop bucket). Some people will need the size and color capabilities of the XL but I think it's a niche market. The lack of an enclosure (or heated enclosure) is also problematic for filaments that really require it. If they offered the XL in a heated enclosure for the same price, I would probably consider it as a possible option. I think Prusa sat on their hands for too many years pushing their bed slingers and Bambu came along and surprised the heck out of them with their CoreXY boxes. This is sad because I've always been a huge Prusa fan. I literally use a roll of their PC-CF filament (incredible stuff!) every week for my engineering job so I sure don't want them to go away. I think they rushed their XL to market before it was ready. I'm hoping this will be their last black eye but I'm pretty sure Bambu is going to keep iterating with new products every 3-4 months.
I agree that for this price range the printer should come out working flawlessly. You should not have to use thread lock etc. Regular maintenance that is all. I can understand if you buy a kickstarter machine with innovation that you may expect some tuning depending again on the price range but Prusa is a leader and should act like one. Offering something later that should be there at the beginning should not make you look good. It does not in my mind.
Thank you for the review and a job well done. I was going to buy one but decided to wait based on the fact that Prusa is sometimes late at giving out what should already be there. I am still considering it but perhaps when I start seeing reviews of people having used it steadily for 9+ months I will buy one.
My Prusa is the Mini+, but I found that Prusa Slicer 2.7 was the problem. When I rolled back my firmware and the Slicer back to 2.6, my prints were great again. 2.7 kept giving me voids and the accompanying surface defects. It appears to be a Slicer defect as nothing physically changed on my machine.
Your mileage may vary...
I would be so pissed if this were me.
Like i just don't get the XL, i love the reduced wasted filament and time, but every thing else just seems like a nightmare.
I also don't like at all the use of 3d printed parts on a $5000+ usd machine. It seems unnecessarily cheap.
Great video as always!
Dang, I am more of a Bambu guy but my limited experience and research with Prusa told me that they are top notch when it comes to assembly and all. I'm kinda surprised to see all the fiddling and tinkering you had to do with a fully assembled printer here. One that costs like, what, 3 times as much or more than the X1C with AMS combo? crazy.
It still feels like they rushed the XL release to compete with the Bambu hype. But a Prusa veteran would know better than I would.
Being universally praised(except the price) as the best quality printer company seems much less impressive if it isn't consistent.
I love your videos and have used many to troubleshoot my own printer over the years. I think the big issue with the XL is that it’s a beta product being sold as ready with all the users being employees testing and not getting paid. Canceled my order a couple months ago when they said it was ready to ship. If print engineering can’t fix his imagine all of us! I’m pretty savvy just not like him.
I think I'm so happy I cancelled my XL order and went with a bambu X1 Carbon instead. Did I have some teething problems with the Bambu? Sure, I did, but they were all resolved, and the print experience and quality for the money make it well worth every penny.
It's a hard sell for $8000 AUD, i've been happy with my Mk3S+ but i'm not sure i would go down the Prusa path again, i can't justify 8K, even though id love a larger bed size. It is annoying that first generation Prusa owners are beta testers instead of more in-house testing before release, thank you for your beta testing, im sure it'll be a solid workhorse in another 6 months time after more fixes
For 8k, Thats a decent subtractive cnc machine to aid in your making and gives you a wider depth to pull from in terms of manufacturing twchnologies availible to you.
@@BeefIngot funny you should say that, I’m putting a 1500mm x 1000mm Ratrig CNC together at the moment 😂
5:45 Did reassembly address the wobble for you? Is there anything in particular you paid attention to during reassembly to make sure everything is aligned?
Thanks so much for the info. I've been thinking to buy a XL with the 5 tool heads for long time with ups and downs depending on the info I was collecting along the time but I think today, after seeing your video, I made my decision NOT to buy. Echoing some other comments what I find more and more unacceptable is this idea that in the world of 3D printing companies can take the luxury to release half ready products and then expects end users to test/debug/find solitions. Let me say, coming from several experiences, that Prusa does this a lot... definitely too much... I would like to reaffirm a basic but very true concept of modern economy: in a commercial relation, the duty of the end customer buying a product or a service is to pay the requested price. That's ALL. The rest is up to the seller. I think we should all make an effort to establish this concept also in this sector. If something is not working as expected we should simply send it back! That's my opinion.
We've got 2 at our offices (just the single tool head) and the loading/unloading of filament is a major step back from the Mk3 series. I don't know if they ran into patent issues with Stratasys (this is how their Fortus 400 and 450 models work), but there should be a stepper motor that pushes detected filament through the runout sensor to the toolhead. Feeding even PLA through that long bowden tube is annoying in 2023, considering the price of the machine.
Great video, and I appreciate your content as always!
It reminds me my first 3d printer which is a Ultimaker knockoff, almost everything on that printer was off. It took me a couple of months to fix 90% of issues. But it turned out great and I was emotionally attached to it. 😢
Was? Hope you still have it. Or at least passed it on to someone who would appreciate it.
@@parsonk4041I replaced it with an ender 3 and forgot about it afterwards.😅 I still have the printer. It’s z layer still has some kind drift I suspect there is something wrong with the source code, maybe I need to recompile the code or get a new control board.🫠
Thanks for the fair and differentiate video. There are good and there are bad stuff. I hope that Prusa learned their lesson and will quality control their new releases in the future in a better way. The MK4 and XL are missing features (like an integrated camera, come on - esp cams are costing 5-10$ most, can't be THAT expensive to include them) and have underdeveloped software like their Prusa Link. I'm using it on my MK4 and its okay - but I had better experience with octo print on my mk3s+ years ago.
See, the thing is, Prusa has been like this for years. Its just a bigger problem now because this thing costs 10 printers worth and operates less well out of the box.
Tbh with the currently shipped 0.4 versions this is not true ... Mine came a month ago, and it just works well...
My main use case is PLA+petg supports, which is only possible on this printer ... You couldn't do that properly on a X1C for example...
I don't have any of the problems he describes, my printer is 95% stock but I now have nozzle brushes in front of the parking position, but those are only necessary for foaming TPU in my opinion... Did most prints without. But for foaming TPU, which you never get not to ooze, it's good...
@@MichaelKasch PLA with PETG supports is totally possible on the X1C.....
@@BeefIngot at high temp for PLA or low temp for petg perhaps...
But then take foaming TPU as an example where you need a specific temperature... Or two materials further apart
But not at proper temperature... And on the XL you have all the freedom minus the waste due to 💩
@@MichaelKasch You can have different filament temps. The temp differences between petg and pla isnt significant anyways.
As for poop, not really an issue for most things given that youd just make the interface the support material.
For TPU, definitely a real defficiency though for the AMS.
Guess I'll wait for XL S when it finally has Prusa's staple of quality and reliability
I agree.
I had bad first layers and in my case it was correlated to wet Petg filament with the load cell as the printer extruded blobs before doing the levelling. The blobs then triggered the load cell causing these issues.
I don’t think you’re wrong in your review I do however think they should be cut some slack considering this is a totally new product for them so there will be growing pains and they way they patch and provide software updates and resolve issues is on point. I do agree that they should have sent out new smaller nozzles to everyone immediately
XL 5T Semi Assembled user here. I have mine almost three months now and it has been running 24/7 since day one, full build plates with intricate 3-5 colors prints. It have it pretty much on default settings, and it has been running flawlessly since day one.. no stringing, no failed prints. Just super nice quality multi color prints with no waste. All it can say is that I am super happy with this machine. Worth every penny.
@Teaching Tech, Try to change the heater cartridge, or put a separate mosfet board, this REEKS of a heating issue. Then try and pid tune using both methods. It really feels like it’s over heating and reporting the wrong temp could be wrong but give it a try and see.
I'm sure he would do this but for the amount of money spent it is ridiculous to even consider it.
@@kongchho8547money spent does not always equal value gotten, I personally have seen even more stupid issues on printers you would not ever think such a thing could happen.
Wow! Just wow! Thank you for this video. I’m officially never buying a Prusa! It’s insane that an X1C can run circles around this thing without even breaking a sweat. TO PRUSA!! YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DO BETTER THAN THIS!!!
The new alpha fw made my 2XL waaay quieter.
I filmed the same sequence back to back and it was much if a muchness. Double checked it was turned on in the menu.
That noise was crazy. How is it so loud when you can run other printers at 200mm/s and barely hear them. Is it just a software issue?
I didn't pick up whether you fixed the wobble on the Z axis lead screw or not. It didn't look arrow straight when you ran the bench test, so I'm assuming that you replaced it?
While I really commend you for turning down the free XL that Prusa offered you, I think you have proven to your viewers enough times over the years that any review you give is honest, fair and unbiased….even when products are provided to you for free. I think you should take the free printer.
Was going to say the same thing!