I am not interested in any defenses of John Petrucci on this video unless someone has proof that Rudess is playing the note that John is clearly not. It sounds much more like a lead guitar than a keyboard. Saying "John is playing along with a backing track that's a harmony" is not a defense. Not in the eyes of those of us who take a hardline stance against playbacks that could fool an audience into thinking a band member is actually playing them. The TV SHOW and MOVIE samples used by Kevin Moore, the thunderclap at the beginning of A Nightmare To Remember, the use of the intro from the studio version of The Count Of Tuscany are totally different scenarios than what DT is doing now. Those do not have the potential to fool audiences into thinking they're "real," as in a function of one of the band members on stage. There are frustratingly many Dream Theater fans who accept my conclusions about LaBrie, but get pissy any time I say a bad word about Petrucci. It's - to borrow a phrase used for one of John's solo songs - "wishful thinking." Petrucci has done a poor job of leading Dream Theater compared to Portnoy, and the fact that Dream Theater won a Grammy for The Alien is irrelevant. A lot of garbage pop and rap artists have won Grammys by now. My next video will concern Petrucci, due to not enough people accepting his downfall and corruption.
Tyler Erdmann: you're gone. Not only was your reply to the above comment incomprehensible, you're a fool if you think I would toss out my name and occupation when I've gotten death threats from Dream Theater fans, and some people would probably try to get me fired from my job. Is my identity relevant to my criticisms of DT? Only to people in denial of reality, who have nothing else they can reach for, it is.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 lol, the only person in denial of reality, with nothing to reach for, is you. You've clearly got a hard on for trying to disrespect DT. It's quite sad.
This debate reminds me of Rush, who explicitly worked to play everything live by themselves with no backing tracks. Any of the guys could trigger samples of backing vocals, keyboard parts, and more at any time. That was a rod they made for their own backs, a self-imposed limitation that influenced what they did (or didn’t) do live. I’m conflicted about that - in the longer comment I just posted, I expressed some sympathy for the demands bands face on tour, but also concern about how some bands deal with that.
At first, I also thought Rudess is playing along with Petrucci and that last note is played by the keyboard player, considering he can split his keyboard into several sections. I'm not entirely sure, though.
Well.. JP had balls to retired LaBrie and search a young blood vocalist that can refresh DT with a much better vocal and tone.. that cappable to hit that note without any help on mixing or sound enginere tweak on studio or live.. and i think Beast on Black vocalist Yannis papadopoulos is a good replacement for LaBrie.. he has an insane amount of power and sound register..
They need to fire Labrie, stop screwing Mangini's sound with the production and just overall have more respect to themselves. Portnoy, whether you like him or not, was like a quality control for Dt
John Petrucci definitely not using playbacks. I could hear some mistakes when I saw them live. I'm glad that they are using backing track with Labrie, because he probably sounds awful without it. It makes me more comfortable to bring non-DT fans to a concert.
Bruh, he clearly is using backing track in this video. There is no way he could play that high note when holding his hand around the 3rd fret. It is propably done to make the sound fuller though or something. That part is not even hard to play, so it is bit weird that he is using backing track.
@@hyppyrotta71 It's a transitional part so in the recording it rings out as the next part gets dubbed in over top but live you can't do that so it would make sense to use a playback just for that note to ring out so he can begin the next section. Just so it sounds like the recording. In the studio, nobody records live and in one-take and what happens is sometimes you write a part that can't be perfectly replicated live without sacrificing something to make it work. So, an easy way to get around that is using backing tracks just to fill in that gap note here and there so you don't hurt the integrity of the song and what people expect to hear.
As of 2024...i can't justify spending the money to hear James croak and strain the vocals while the band plays flawlessly. Sadly he just ruins the performance. He absolutely butchers almost everything.
its funny how he says hes been singing a lower octave but when you watch the live videos of him before being called out you can notice that his body language (idk if its the right term for this but i think you get what i mean) suggests that he is singing the higher octave. Like, just by looking at his facial expression and how he stands still simulating some kind of "struggle" you get the idea that he is singing (pretending to) the higher octave And then after being called out and starting to actually sing the lower octave his body language is completely different, he walks around the stage and his expressions suggest some kind of "boredom" , this time matching what he is actually singing. I dont see many people pointing this out and i feel like this is a pretty obvious proof that he is lying when he says he has been singing that lower octave the entire time
@@AMGU2B The consensus is that if he wasn't outright trying to lip sync, he was covering up his vocals with a much louder playback, which isn't any better.
I think with the last note of JP’s solo, they do have the pre recorded note on the tracks since he’s supposed to go to the outro riff immediately after the last note of the solo. LaBrie however, no excuse, and he clearly only started doing the octave thing after getting called out. I think the entire debacle could have been avoided entirely if their sound guy just didn’t have the pre recorded vocals in the tracks so much louder than LaBrie’s actual live singing. Who in their camp thought they could fool a bunch of prog nerds in any case?
You're acting like what Petrucci is doing is OK. It's not. We need to take a hardline stance against any playbacks that could fool an audience into thinking a performer is actually playing the notes, when they're not. Something like the "6:00 on a Christmas morning" sample or thunder clap at the beginning of A Nightmare To Remember are totally different, because no one is going to think they're live. Pea-brained Dream Theater defenders routinely try to draw equivalencies between those things, and what DT is doing now though.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 If that’s where you want to draw your hard line, fair enough. I personally don’t care too much about one note at the end of a solo to keep the guitars sounding like the album but fake vocals and or full passages of instruments on a pre recorded track I’m not ok with. I am probably a little biased however as I played with a band that could never find someone to play bass live so we used the album tracks through the PA and just played to a click. It’s not what we wanted to do but was necessary. DT definitely doesn’t have that problem though so their issues are definitely manufactured.
@@scottofsc Not everybody goes to live shows to "hear something like the album." That's an assumption underpinning a lot of the dodgy backing track practices going on right now. There could easily be many people who want something different from the record. And, as I say in the video, it's likely there's more than just that one note being faked by Petrucci.
@@icedragon769 You talk out of your butt, Ice Dragon. As I said in my comment to Scott Barber, the only "backing tracks" they used in the distant past were Kevin Moore's movie and TV show samples. These did not have the ability to mislead people into thinking the band was actually performing them live, like DT's current playbacks do. I am very well-versed in DT bootlegs and the band's live history. Until Portnoy's departure, they WERE a raw live band other than their disappointing official live releases that had lots of studio overdubbing and editing (Live At The Marquee, Change Of Seasons, Score, and everything subsequent to Store).
@@tshddx "But backing tracks for multitracked instrumental parts like that are ridiculously common and the vast majority of concert-goers are totally fine with it. " That's a big claim on your part that's going to require big evidence to justify. Do you have polls showing this? I believe you are just making assumptions. People may go to concerts for purposes of nostalgia, or just seeing one of their favorite bands in the flesh, even if they don't agree with all modern music practices. It's also tautological to say that "concertgoers are OK with current concert practices." No shit. People who go to gay bars are, by definition, OK with homosexuality. There could be people not going to concerts of mainstream bands out of disgust with the music industry. I am one of them. How many others out there are like me? I don't know, but unlike you, I'm not going to make claims about that which I have no empirical evidence for.
You know what Devin Townsend did when he started noticing his vocals sucking live? He identified that he was drinking and smoking way too much and not sleeping enough while on tour, which was all damaging his throat, and decided to quit those habits for the sake of his voice, music, and overall sanity. Now his voice sounds as great as it ever did in his 50s, he can still scream, and hit almost all of the ridiculous high notes he could in his 20s, some even higher than LaBrie ever could. Yes, he uses some vocal pads like choirs and backing vocals (he is a solo artist now, using band tracks comes with the territory), but I dont think I've ever seen Devin use a doubling track for his lead vocal parts live, and I've sure as shit never seen him walk away from a microphone during one of his many prolonged vocal lines while still hearing him sing. To say "this is what happens with old age" is only true when the singer hasn't taken good care of his voice for the previous 50 years of his life. But "The Alien" just won a goddamn Grammy because these guys have Roadrunner money to bribe people with. :/
@@SimonSkipper Which is great because now every single album comes with an instrumental version. Nothing against Labrie but some songs are so insane as instrumentals, Distance over Time for example sounds a lot better as an instrumental. The way i see it, James labrie should try to modify the way he sings live to be more forgiving with his voice (like what he did on his new solo album), it may be slightly divisive but hey, maybe it would be cool to hear some of the old songs in a new light, a more melodic approach that doesn't has him hitting the high notes so often.
Hell, Sammy Hagar has been described as having awful, throat damaging technique, and at 74 years, he's still out there kickin and sounds great singing. Tommy Shaw, 68, still sounds great. And the list can go on. The age argument sounds great in a vacuum. As soon as you start looking at others in his age range, and even much older, it falls apart. Further, that James feels the need to come out during a live show and defend himself from the allegations doesn't help either. He's in a hugely successful band.. He doesn't have to prove himself to anyone. Yet, there he is. "The singer doth protest to much, methinks".
What I don't get is out of all the vocal parts in DT's giant catalog why does he try so hard to get away with lip syncing on the end of bridges in the sky? It doesn't seem like a particularly difficult part, at that point he might as well lipsync the infamous high part in pull me under.
@@gianfrixmgthose are not even high-mid notes so he shouldn't have problems with passagio, especially with his vocal range. And also speaking of that, his range decreased enormously in only 10 years, the man can't even belt easy notes like G4 anymore, and there's no thing in the world to help him improve.
One thing that just blows my mind, is how fucking lazy is Labrie to repeatedly make the same mistakes of dropping his mic too early night after night. You’d think he would make some sort of effort in his stage presence to at least not make it look so obvious and embarrassing.
It'll be interesting to see if Portnoy can even salvage the band at this point. Say what you want about Mangini or his lack of involvement, but in a way that's a defense of him. He's not been the one who's been making these decisions, both during the writing process and outside of it. From what I can tell he's just been doing his job competently enough, and always seemed passionate about the music unlike some other members. Kicking out Magini doesn't fix the problems, Portnoy has to fix them now
portnoy is not letting petrucci make shit. I am sure of that. So at least I am sure we can take joy in the instrumentals. Labrie is tough considering he was the impediment on portnoy coming back and he had a change of heart. It would be kinda like a backstab now if portnoy fired him. Labrie has to resign on his own terms and on his own will.
I think Portnoy can change where the band goes musically. As for the industry standard practices it will probably stay the same with click tracks and pre recorded stuff, even if they kick LaBrie out off the band
The guy also claimed he was one of the "primary" melody writers on Distance Over Time, when he's not credited as such in the liner notes. A bit of an issue with honesty, that one.
@@mutatednut That's something we've been discussing for years. The band has never put forth any sort of justification despite the large backlash against LaBrie.
For the Petrucci part, they obviously have the song in the background, most likely just incase this something like this would happen, its also much quieter so you can tell if he is actually playing or not. my guess for playing in the background is for more depth, because it could sound a bit more hollow without it
The funniest part is that the section LaBrie is lip syncing is not even that high nor hard to sing live. Now Portnoy announced he is coming back to DT. I hope some changes can be made for future concerts because this is beyond pathetic.
Also, John Petrucci has more than enough gear to use an actual guitar harmonizer (with his AxeFX III, for example) instead of having it pre-recorded. There's no good excuse for him of having such a thing on backtracks.
By the way, Debut album is actually good and not a piece of shit as many think. Maybe that's because I come from the Metal side of the band rather than the Prog side.
@@mercyfulfatedude2341 I love When Dream And Day Unite! In fact, if I had to pick a single DT album to listen to, that would probably be it, due to my disgust with LaBrie, plus I never listened to it enough when I considered myself a fan of the band.
If you're so opposed to backing tracks, then what's your thoughts on a band like Rings of Saturn that records albums with like 3-4 guitars playing harmonies at once and then having a harmony track in the background live?
that's way different, they are not trying to pretend playing 3-4 guitars at once live of course, that's understandable. But faking LEAD VOCALS? that's on another level
Rush always used playback backing vocals, for example in Subdivisions, and bizarrely Alex Lifeson always mimed them. But NO-ONE thought those BVs were actually Alex for real.
Dream Theater 2022 09 02 Rock in rio - a lot of interesting moments) in end of Tuscany Labie dont sing his part, but put mic in audience, but his recorded voice sings endings woah part
I was at their show in Krakow in May, and what I must say is that live that lower octave in bridges is louder than on videos that i've seen. But obviously I'm not saying that he was not lip-syncing that part at the start of the american leg. What is also very interesting, there are a few more higher and difficult vocal lines in this year setlist that James was actually singing.
th-cam.com/video/L6ipyM2gJng/w-d-xo.html about the Petrucci solo, in this video from Orlando FL, he ends the solo bending the highest E to Fsharp. There's a prerecorded track that goes along with all the solo with harmony notes, and that ends with the same bend, but an octave lower.
First and foremost, congratulations on posting these videos. I admire your unbiased approach. You do show and critize what it is obvious: they are over the hill. Are they in the red as well?? On the other hand, it seems that LaBrie cannot be fired due to a technicality. Is it a perpetual clause?? Can a member of a band be bound to their brand forever?? Not being a lawyer I would like to know. I didn't know such a clause could be applied. Be that as it may, DT's creative and artistic potential started to hit rock bottom since Moore decided to leave. Awake is DT's magnum opus. They have launched various so-so/catchy/cheesy songs since Moore left, but a well-rounded album they have not recorded. Congratulations once again. Unbrainwashing zombie fans is a feat.
At this point I've come to the same conclusion as you: that JLB is only still there because some sort of contractual/business agreement where it's near-impossible to actually fire him without his consent. For a while I thought it was just an issue of JP just not caring enough (since he's demonstrably less dedicated to being the bandleader than MP) or literally being in denial (openly admitting to Beato that he has no vocals in his mix AKA not wanting to face how consistently bad JLB sounds live) but the fact that DT is now fully "masking" his real live voice with prerecorded tracks proves that DT is fully aware and either wants to show mercy on the listeners' ears or doesn't want to face backlash, which obviously backfired. BTW I saw them on this tour and there were several times when James's vocals went from noticeably quiet to "normal volume". At the time I thought it was just a sound issue but it's quite possible that it was actually the "helper" track not being activated on time. Same thing happened with JP's guitar, which I thought was similarly a soundboard issue or signal problems with his stereo amp rig but he may very well be running playbacks as you suggested as well.
Damn... How one of the big boys has fallen... I wonder, and maybe you can answer these questions to me since you seem to know a lot about the band's history, I guess... Do you think we would be hearing a different story about LaBrie if... 1) He had rested his vocals for some months after tearing them apart in '94 instead of going with the Awake tour? 2) Had he not kept using that weird distortion/grit technique he used for Awake? A lot of professionals think that the way he did his vocal fry in Awake was what actually ended up killing his vocals, not singing non-stop (at least not by itself) 3) If they had listened to Portnoy and actually stayed down for a bit when he said so in 2009-2010? And as a general question. Do you think any of this would have happened if Portnoy was still aboard? My guess to this last one is no, because he knows how hard it can be to sing from being a backing vocalist, and they would have kept a trend of writing songs that made the best out of LaBrie's remaining vocal capacities. Plus, he would probably be beating the shit out of them from suggesting the use of backing tracks lmao
I've always found the food poisoning story a farce and I'll explain. This channel actually somewhat proves it too. If you listen to Labrie singing the "Watch the sparrow falling" part of "Pull Me Under", it's not an immediate rupture of vocal chords. It's a slowly, by degree voice worsening due to age and lack of maintenance. Labrie has been known to be somewhat lazy, so I doubt his voice is an exception to that pattern. Because to me, he didn't start really losing stride until like maybe 2004-05, then he hit a cliff. Just my two cents
You can answer these questions by looking at some events where they actually get to do these hypothetical scenarios: 1.) Way back in 1996, DT were able to get a nice long break and when they performed their first show in '97, Labrie was almost in his top form, just watch the Killing Hand from '97 which was also from that very first show in '97. What I'm trying to say is that: Yes! Had James listened to his doctors' advice and took a year-long break, he would've saved his voice from declining much sooner. But, this might also put the band in hard situation. 2.) Throughout the Traint of Thought era up until Black Clouds, he noticeably put less to no rasps on songs from I&W and Awake so that did help him reserve his vocal strength. When he returned to doing it from 2011-2013, he became weaker after that. Him being in his early 50's at that time also is a factor 3.) The best way to look at this what-if scenario is to look at Avenged Sevenfold. Both bands had their singers suffer an unfortunate circumstance: M Shadows was unable to both talk and sing due to a viral infection in 2018 in his throat. Fortunately for him, the pandemic happened, and they didn't want to do any tours or release their new album until this year when tours were at full swing, so he gets to have a 5-year rest. How does he do today? He's much stronger than when he last toured in 2018 albeit rusty but had the band not rested, he would've been Labrie-levels of worst.
Isn't is possible that the last note Petrucci is supposed to be playing is in the backing track because he has to get back to the rhythm part? Maybe it's just to make the transition more seamless. Besides, at the exact moment he breaks the string, no backing track is heard except for the very last bend. Just my attempt at explaining it.
Yes, it is possible. A good way to test this is to find a clip from another show (same track and same tour) and check if his last note from the solo will keep ringing when he changes to the rhythm part. If there is a note ringing we can at least consider this theory.
Ravenskill, I just wanted to ask you on why did you say (not in this video) that Labrie vocal problems on studio albums started on The Astonishing? It was evident that Labrie used Autotune or other form of pitch correction since Octavarium (you can hear artefacts of bad production on e.g. Repentance 1:41, The Ministry of Lost Souls 4:00, A Nightmare to Remember 4:32, Wither 0:50
I don't know where I stated something to that effect. I may have said that The Astonishing was the first album with really loud, really obvious pitch correction. But clearly, he was not doing a good enough job well in advance of The Un-Astonishing.
Damn. As much as I didn't want to admit it before, you actually have solid evidence. I can't believe I'm apparently being fooled by my favorite band...
I paid a heavy price for speaking out against what this band was doing five years ago. I saw the direction they were heading in and that things were only going to get worse and worse. The tide has turned in my favor.
At least you can admit it. I'm a huge TOOL and Deftones fan, but can admit I don't agree with Danny Carey (my drumming idol)'s occultism or the fact that Deftones dropped Sergio recently and Chino was a dick about it. It sucks, but denying solid evidence is even worse than the band denying what they're doing.
I have *some* sympathy for touring bands in general, since the demands for musical perfection every night would be beyond me personally. We hope that every gig we see is the band’s best gig, but in reality it’s not possible. To me it’s about how they handle these demands, with or without integrity. Take Yes, for example, and how they basically booted Jon Anderson when he had some respiratory problems that meant he couldn’t tour until he recovered (which he did). That nearly killed my interest in anything they would do in the future, and they basically become a “repertory” band, playing casinos etc. Then Chris Squire died, and that was that. Not that Billy Sherwood isn’t excellent, but Yes is now the musical equivalent of a touring theater company. You don’t go and see them for a unique experience. Is Dream Theater going the same way? To me they jumped the shark when Derek left, twenty years ago. I last saw them in Dublin, a city they have never returned to since the gig was poorly promoted and didn’t sell out totally. (This month they’re playing Belfast, but not Dublin, a bigger city.) Mike was still there but the soul was gone.
Sadly you can also see this in the more recent gigs - e.g. Rock in Rio where there are the main vocals playing as backing tracks whilst James Labrie sings over them: th-cam.com/video/ltjiA8wOWqE/w-d-xo.html e.g. 15:53 in the above video
I dont hear anything wrong in johns playing though, it sounds more like he fucked up the final note, the climax more than anything else and rushed the fuck out of it. Mistakes happen, I dont hear any playback here or its so faint that you really cant catch it. Ill have to look that up again. Now for James, this is inexcusable. Plus its on Bridges in the Fucking Sky. Like this was from the beginning of the end era, first post Portnoy album where fucking James sang like on a ballad throughout the record and had is herrrendous "angel up the to sky reverb" filter (I couldnt find a better name yet I fucking hate it, especially on distance over time). Bridges is not even hard to sing at all. its very low range, nothing too hard even for like 1h shows, even at 60YO. Bruce dickinson can do 100000 times better. Hell, even fucking Rob Halford from the Redeemer of Souls days could do better than that. Fucking hell, James, dude, you are a multimillionaire, made incredible records with the band, you will have more than a name in the Pantheon of prog. Just cause you would call it a day does not mean you will not be remembered fondly. Like... James is seriously the problem. At least Mike Mangini got his shit together finally after 5 albums. Took a while but we got there eventually.
I've always wondered what LaBrie's motive is. Yes, the band is lucrative, and that is one thing, but why repeatedly subject yourself to humiliation, and now resort to using playbacks, when that's giving obvious ammunition to "the haters?" Is he doing this out of spite for Mike Portnoy? Does he think he's proving some sort of esoteric point about how tough he is by staying in the band despite massive opposition? No one cares. We're only interested in hearing good music.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 I can tell you his motive easily. What else is he going to do? Who is going to recruit a sixty year old singer with crocked vocal cords, who is obese, a mediocre (at best) frontman and who consistently embarrasses himself and his bandmates by wailing like a banshee being tortured to death slowly? Dream Theater is the only game in town for all of these guys, not just LaBrie. They are all trapped in Dream Theater now. Love him or hate him, Portnoy since leaving has been consistently authentic and hasn't done anything that whiffs even slightly like a record that has been produced to death. These guys are like a sports coach who lost the edge and got promoted to the board. It's over. I don't care about the Grammy, they are just a business now and if that's what they want then fine but I'm not going to pretend that it's alright.
@@sourcescience That's always been my gut feeling too. I think it boils down to laziness and inertia on the part of LaBrie. If he can't have a career in music, he'd have to find something else to fill his time. He could get a job doing physical labor, but nah, that's too much work. He could go to college and study something (like Kevin Moore did), but nah, that's too much work too.
at 2:26, he broke the string while bending the 24th fret on the e string, so i´m assuming he broke that string. The next note would´ve been probably on the 24th fret Estring without the bend. He moved closer to the neck of the guitar, i assume to the 5th fret b string. the pinch harmonic there is the same sound like the 24 on the broken e string. the question is, will the whole guitar detune if you break a string? a lot of bridges have that, I dont know if he has a built in mechanic to avoid it.
Hoy bro, you have no idea how much I've loved your channel all this time, I've spent the last 13 years of my life trashing every moron in the DT fanbase, I see you're not not very active for a while and I hope that like me you're happy with the boss's return to the band, I hope to find a way to exchange with you and I hope you are doing well 🤘
I'm still around and read nearly all of the comments on this channel. I am not happy about Mike Portnoy's return to the band. There is evidence that LaBrie's vocals (and the inability to fire LaBrie) are the main reason Portnoy left Dream Theater, so what is the point in him coming back if the vocals are going to the be same? I've been mulling over some new videos for over a year, but I am not sure how necessary they would be. People who still like what the band is doing are not changing their minds, and they interpret anything I post as evidence that I spend every waking hour of my life seething with rage towards Dream Theater. You either see what a sham the band is now, or you don't. If I do make some new videos, some things I want to touch on are the gratuitous gear endorsements by JR, and how JP has lied multiple times about the Majesty guitars.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 Nice to read you again or just have news, for me DT was on a downward slope since 2006, the period between 99 and 05 was undoubtedly the most memorable it's like talking about Pep Guardiola's Barca, Mike Portnoy was a visionary he knew that the machine was running out of steam, I think the problem was deeper than that, there have always been tensions between him and Labrie, that's for sure, in fact James is the first to have said publicly that Portnoy was never going to come back, quite cheeky coming from a member who isn't even one of the founders, but I don't think that was the cause of Mike's departure, there was a decline in Systematic and Black Clouds, I'm not saying they're bad albums but it was a little less inspired than 99-05 where there was a constant evolution in the writing and even in the musical directions, Mike knew that the group needed to recharge his batteries and the band should have followed his advice except no, I'm not even going to talk about what happened after he left, I think we can all agree that it was boring as hell, the only album down is Distance, but the fact that Portnoy is back Hypes me, I won't hide it from you, the latest Liquid Tension is more inspired than anything this band has been able to produce in 13 years, there is an alchemy between MP and JP which is unique, it's comparable to James and Lars or the Abbott brothers, and more importantly, we will no longer listen to the rigidity nor the plastic sound of the drummer who got fired
Mike mangini said at one of his clinics that one of the changes DT made once he joined the band was use click tracks, as anyone who plays or is involved in playing music knows, click tracks can either be just the click or it can be have a bunch of other things in there like backing vocals and sound effects or other parts that’s the band can’t replicate live. So it would stand to reason that they probably are using some sort of vocal track live as well to assist LaBrie
In a band with only one guitarist, having the last note of that solo be playback is a no brainer. He has a rhythm part which begins at the beginning of the bar, and it's unreasonable to do it any other way (i.e. letting the note ring out and having to start the riff a couple notes late, all for one note to be played live and ultimately sound worse?) If you think about it for a second it makes a lot of sense, especially from the standpoint of a performer. Tbh, a lot of performers and audiences just don't care about every note being 100% live, they want it to sound good. Its only the snobs who really worry about it. Its different when it comes to difficult passages, since miming those would be deceptive, but one measly note? Come on.
while i find some of your other videos to be nonsensical, and as much as i dont want to admit it, you have some pretty good points and evidence where its simply undeniable that james is using prerecorded tracks to heavily (if not fully) cover up his voice, which is no better than lip syncing.
I have no expectation of people agreeing with me on every single point, but in the big picture sense, I can't see how anyone could deny Dream Theater going totally off the rails some time around the mid 2010s. Terrible live vocals, terrible drum engineering on DT12 and Astonishing, terrible filler material and marketing of Astonishing, the Live At Wacken embarrassment, grotesquely pitch-corrected vocals on Distance Over Time, now the lip-sync controversy as well. Five Eight Forums, David Oakes, and other idiots say we should ignore all of this, and keep attacking Mike Portnoy because death growls or something.
@@VHCosta Forum circle jerks from dreamtheaterforums.org, fiveeightforums.com, and r/DreamTheater are always going off about how Portnoy is the worst thing ever because of the growls on A Nightmare To Remember and other late 2000s-songs, perceived "narcissistic" statements from Portnoy. How wrong they've turned out to be. And that's with the caveat that I don't find many of Portnoy's other bands to be particularly interesting. Portnoy and Dream Theater need each other. Dream Theater does not need LaBrie or Mangini.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 I used to be a hardcore DT fan. I still like their old stuff, but they really haven't released anything noticeable in 20 years. Their new stuff is okay, that's it. Their decline has started years before Portnoy left, and the only thing I really liked from him is The Winery Dogs. But LaBrie, my god, he's been the weakest link for such a long time. It's also the reason why DT ended up being more metal and generally stay around lower registers. It's like their songs have lost brightness, going from being multicolored canvases to scales of grays. And that started in the mid 2000s anyway. Portnoy wanted to stop the cycle of a new album and tour every 2 years, and he was right. You can't be this productive and keep the quality high. They should have taken the Rush route. Don't break up, but make a new album when really inspired. That's how you end up with a career full of highs. It's sad.
This makes me so sad. How the mighty have fallen. DT were my favourite band for a long time, to see them go down this route is truly depressing. Prog metal fans go see Opeth instead where everything is live, no tracks, no overdubs, no fakery. Just live music 🤘🏻 Mikaels singing voice has only gotten better, unlike LaBrie
While Opeth is Amazing, i feel other bands like: Riverside, Soen, Leprous and Ayreon are great picks to see live too, you have some of the most unique voices there, in fact, i believe anyone who likes Mikael will be satisfied with the performances of the aforementioned bands. Maybe also add some others like Caligula's Horse, Tesseract, Protest the Hero and Vola to spice things up a little, also they're finger licking good, you're in for a treat.
It seems they watched these videos because on the new european leg in 2023 they've dropped ALL vocal tracks, Labrie is singing an octave up that part in Bridges and PETRUCCI'S BACKING VOCALS ARE TOTALLY LIVE
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 I mean, he's okay on some songs which require a lower register, but they put back PULL ME UNDER and he's doing a mess every night, he's much worse than 2019 and struggling like hell. I think that if they hired some young blood or a singer whose voice was better preserver (dickinson) they could prolong their career and not be limited (because obviously his voice is limiting them) because they are in very good form instrumentally, Petrucci when I saw them didn't miss a note. But I get that if they fired him, they would lose a lot of fans, kinda like Queensryche without Geoff Tate
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 I have mixed feelings because on one side you have the human/friendship aspect, I mean it's not a machine in which you swap replacements. On the other hand Labrie's declining vocal range is limiting them both in the studio and live, Pull me Under on this 2023 tour was a cringeworthy disaster
@@GuerrillaGuitar There's no reason why they couldn't remain friends with LaBrie if he exited the band, unless he's such a drama queen that his ego wouldn't be able to handle being told he's doing a shitty job.
Interesting. I know about the "vocal issue", and I'd like a replacement for the quality. (At this point even I could train myself a bit and do better...) It's clearly not the lack of singers, but something else. I've never seen the JP clip, I also want them to play what they can (and not what they could?). Let's see what will change now that MP is back. Are you excited? Do you think they can raise the quality back?
They’re old. That’s what it is. They can’t keep up with the studio recordings. I remember when systematic chaos came out I thought no way he can play constant motion live without mistakes, and then I saw chaos in motion, most of it was butchered. They’re trying too fast for themselves and are overestimated themselves. Call it a day and leave on a high note while you still can.
Their opportunity to end on a high note passed a long time ago. The Last Hurrah of the band was A Dramatic Turn Of Events, and the ensuing tour, and that was 12-13 years ago. It also would have looked weak for them to do just one album after Portnoy quit, so there's no way they would have called it a day there.
What is the cover story going to be now? That the sound engineer turned his "real" vocals too low at all shows prior to the Philadelphia one? This is why it's a terrible idea to even mess around with playbacks.
Yep! and Yuk! I loved them up until Six Degrees, then felt disappointed by the Train of Turds and didn't bought a single CD after that. Listened a couple of time to Octacrap, felt disappointed and didn't even listen to newer releases after that. That's how much disappointed I was. Then I casually read of Portnoy quitting, I saw the mini series of auditions, I heard in disbelief how robotic Mangini sounded, and nope nope nope... Every time they reach a new bottom. Now lip synch and playback backing vocals? Oh my... I'm going to listen to some Cliff Burton isolated tracks to clean my soul. I feel like, even with Portnoy, they thought they can compose anything as if they are Frank Zappa, but they aren't at a musical level since they box themself in the metal genre, and for sure they aren't FZ at a comedic level; so the result is a soup of cliché of various bands at the limit of covers, plagiarism and copying the sound of the production (like in Octacrap, but I didn't listen after that), some Disney music, some circus music, tornado of notes, all in metal sauce. Boring.
Yeesh... that's bad. I don't have any excuse for the LaBrie stuff but I think the Petrucci stuff is okay - most likely the last note of the solo is prerecorded because it covers over a rhythm section. Also the octave down stuff is weird but that at least makes some sense, but the straight up lip syncing is really bad. Unfortunate to see one of my favorite bands go like this
Obviously undeniable, but I'm genuinely curious as to if you're even a Dream Theater FAN seeing all but one video criticizing and exposing them in some way shape or form.
I haven't enjoyed arena shows for about a decade now. All these big bands are turning half their show into karaoke. I love metal and rock for the thrill of watching people actually interacting and vibing off each other. I was super irritated when I saw Periphery in London the other year and two out of 6 members were just playback (bass has been for years and Mark Halcomb was out for his divorce stuff). It sucked. I enjoy going to local gigs or smaller venues way more these days (although even some small bands are now basically putting their shows on rails and it does take some excitement away).
Singers are replaced all the time in bands, like wtf? He can bow out, he's not an original member and there's hardly a fan that goes to see 20 minute prog epics for some guy with no charisma or vocal range.
Talking about lip syncing onstage is like older Lenny Bruce and his act descending into tedious, long and boring rants about the government being out to get him.
I would no have problem with LaBrie firing back if it was a false accusation. But the videos speak for themselves. If the goal was not to outright lip-sync, then this elusive "harmony" he was singing was so quiet at the vast majority of shows that it appeared virtually indistinguishable from lip-syncing, and was therefore a terrible idea. Shame on DT.
I paid for a live performance, and that is what I should get. Anything other than what the four guys performed on stage is deceptive and fraudulent. Any band/artist should be upfront and transparent about what type of performance they are providing. Example being Buckethead. Buckethead performs solo with backing tracks, and the audience is totally aware of if, and he is not trying to fool anyone doing so.
I mean, Buckethead is not even human (31 whole albums in a month? wtf), dude's insane skill overshadow any other instruments, besides, who better to change things and make adjustments than the man himself. IMO way better than arguing with other band members that wouldn't agree with the Bucket's artistic vision.
I thought of making a video comparing their old and new music. And what's specifically Is wrong the mangini Era. But it got really complicated. Would love to see you do something like that.
I was at that Oakland show and didn’t really notice the lip synching, and I’ve seen DT a bunch of times since the mid 90’s,but I think that was my last show because Labrie just sounds so awful nowadays. The recent tour with AAL & Devin Townsend was tempting, but ultimately skipped it. I love watching these guys live, mostly for the musicianship since I’m a drummer, but I just can’t keep take another show listening to JLB’s vocals.
Wow. Vocals and guitar??? That's just sad. At least with a band like kiss the music is still live. And Paul sang his heart out for 45 years! But this. Is a new low!
yeah this is sad. as a guitar player i'm more focused on petrucci and although i know i suck, i watched a few of the recordings of their tour, specifically the invisible monster solo because i like it and i can play it partially, and i can say that i haven't seen a recording where petrucci played it as it was recorded - he either makes a mistake or just does a sloppy job. his decline, it seems, has started somewhere around 2020. as far as james goes, i love his vocals and his style range is incredible on 6 degrees, but obviously he can't sing that good anymore. i was meaning to see them this year, but i don't like the setlist apart for 3 songs, and if i'm gonna get my ears blasted off by a partially faked performance that is too loud, i don't think i'll be paying for that. i'm just sad that i wasn't born earlier to see them in their prime because their music is still my favorite.
I don't care if you use a backing track, Lying about it to the people who payed to see you though is scummy. As long as people know what they are paying for i am fine with it.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 Absolutely you're spot on and I'm not even "hating" or bashing him, I LOVE his voice on the early albums - I'm just stating facts that can be backed up by more than enough other testimonies. Given what I have seen on your channel and that it seems to be a red thread weaving through his life (as evidenced in Lifting Shadows by Mike Portnoy) that he loves to take credit for things that he doesn't deserve, the encounter I had with him confirmed that his ego is as inflated as a zeppelin airship. The problem with these people is that they're immune to reason and good advice, because they're ego has blinded their judgement. This is why LaBrie keeps making a fool of himself like a clown without himself realizing how absolutely ridiculous he often sounds and looks. I guess it's God's punishment for his arrogance that he leaves him in his darkened state of mind looking like a clown.
Sad truth being, his voice was originally of the highest caliber. It's the years of abuse which brought it to the current level. I remember listening Awake and thinking this is great stuff, but for how long can you keep that vocal delivery before your voice goes haywire? It was on its way and the poisoning only sped the process up. Bruce Dickinson wasn't exactly kind to his pipes either, but he must have had been doing at least something right, and while audibly older and spent, his voice is still holding up much better than James'.
My experience was quite opposite, he was kind and patient, he was more than cool than letting me shoot video. He signed my brother shirt and asked us how are trip was, and if we enjoyed the show. It was like to talking to one of my friends. He seemed sincere to me. But that was in 2002, maybe he's changed since then, not sure.
@@DolkkarToyznstuff James seems like a cooler guy for about the first decade he was in the band than now. For whatever reason, he relinquished his integrity, with disastrous consequences.
This must be the most boring setlist of any DT tour ever. I expected more SDOIT songs, or at least only The Glass Prison to be played. The only two that worth are 6:00 and About to Crash, but even those songs don't sound that good like years many ago, and the other songs are just meh.
I seriously doubt The Glass Prison (or other complex songs from 6DOIT like Blind Faith and The Great Debate) will ever be played live again. That was DT on their prime in terms of speed, technique and execution. JP himself acknowledged that the fast alternate/sweep picking section in The Glass Prison together with the unison in Blind Faith are some of the most challenging things he ever played. And seeing how he is using backing tracks to hide his own playing in the mix, I believe he is not confident he would be able to pull off those things live anymore.
I don't get it. The chorus on bridges in the sky is already so low, that even I hit the notes perfectly, even thou not being a professional singer by any means, specially when it comes about singing higher notes. I just can't reach most of JB's higher notes and screams, but BITS isn't that high at all, so, wtf? I would understand (not say it's ok, but understand) if these were done in parts where he really can't reach at all anymore, surely not here.
In my opinion DT has nothing to prove at this point, they already made history. As far as creativity i can listen without getting totally bored until “A dramatic turn of events” after this album there is no more new elements. Same riffs, same ideas etc
for James labrie: i understand, he's old and in the past he suffered from a very bad vocali chord injury without the right recovery. he's 60 now so if he decide to Just sing an octave lower on the pre recorded track i'm ok with that and i prefer this than listening to actual and real garbage. you can Say that it's inaudibile but that's not the band members fault. for jp it's way easier: he Always double track everything he plays in the records so to male the sound of the Guitar sounds fuller he, in some parts of solos and riffs, has a track of what he's playing which Is barely audible and you can even hear that sometimes the playing Is not perfect so
Implying that LaBrie's performances aren't "actual and real garbage?" Why so many excuses? Why is nothing ever LaBrie's fault, and why should we continue to tolerate him despite gross incompetence?
You can be upset that they flub or get lazy, but they're still performing despite being caught up in their moment and forgetting about the track(s) playing. You can still hear them do their thing, though. You're acknowledging the use of tracks for doubling/harmony, yet I'm seeing where you're livid in the comments and seem to be in disbelief that instruments need to take advantage of that, too. There are so very many layers/takes used to make music sound the way it does, I'm sure you're aware. It's a bummer you seem so upset about it, I guess it's from all the comments and people probably getting angry with you. They suck for that, sorry if that's the case. Your point is certainly contentious, but that doesn't mean others should be crude in responding to it.
That mashup was one of many I made between 2015 and 2017 that was intended to be "cool" rather than "funny." But I'm glad you liked it. I'll post the whole thing soon.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 sometimes there are cool things that are so funny not necessarily because they're hilarious but due to how they're so cleverly made like the "Rage Against Vanessa Carlton" mashup although that one is also hilarious. Congrats on getting an F-bomb! That means he really was watching all that you've posted LOL!
Wow man, Petrucci using pre-record tracks for his solos is completely disappointing, I never thought he would be able to hit Jame's level of dishonesty. Even thought JP was never a good leader since MP left I thought that he still remained an incredibile guitarist and performer but your video just showed how much we still don't know about this band
@@faberbootlegs he still was playing it for real though, I don't get what the issue of having the backing track is, if you are still playing the same thing on top.
I do agree with all the points you mentioned. I personally believe the best live performances are the ones that are purely played by the performers, instead of the ones where they use a backing track. However, i just wanna ask, 0:35 i kinda dig the song. Can someone tell me it's name?
It’s a mashup between “Home” and “Lost Not Forgotten”. Later in the song it switches to a mashup of the first song and “A Rite of Passage” and maybe another track.
Ive recently come back to listening to DT since Portnoys return was announced and two things havn't changed. La Brie is still awful and Raven is still taking none of his shit
I will be seeing John Petrucci in person in August and I expect to have some face time with the man. I'll ask him about that note and will let you know what he says. It certainly looks weird...
I just wonder how much is hidden from us. The next subject to doubt is Jordan, and if Petrucci plays to playbacks, I wonder if Jordan does. Sadly, they're now more busy virtue signalling and making up lame excuses for Labrie's lip sync. I sincerely hoped they'd improve this tour, after the 2 year COVID break, after lowering Labrie's vocal parts on the new album, but instead this tour completely ruined the image of DT for me. P.S. Those remixes are precious. You might need to upload them.
Wait, is it only this song? I don't get it. That part isn't challenging, it's not hard. He could easily do it and suck like, you know, most of the shows he does, but why using playbacks then? I'm absolutely fine with what Petrucci does. I've always assumed he had some kind of backing being a single guitar.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 just because you've not noticed it in the last 15 years doesn't suddenly make it lying 😂 they have ALWAYS had tracks in their shows. you do remixes of their songs - you know how much stuff is in the album mixes. you never once realised a bunch of that stuff was in the live shows too? rhythm guitar, guitar harmonies, extra orchestration and backing vocals/vocal harmonies have ALWAYS been there in the live show. that's why (both) Mike's play(ed) to a click in all the shows it's pretty clear at this point that you're just hate watching DT or trying to rile up fans or whatever your issue is. just chill out 😂 go form a cover band with no backing tracks or something
@@mattyguitar22 I saw Dream Theater twice with Portnoy. Rhythm guitar under solos and other additional guitar were clearly played on keys by Jordan Rudess.
@@mattyguitar22 I'm just seeing your comment now, and can say with absolute certainty that you don't know what you're talking about. In terms of having a rhythm guitar part or guitar harmony playback being used at the same Petrucci was actually playing on stage, there is no evidence of that being the case until just recently with the View From The Top Of The Toilet Bowl and Terminal Dishonesty tours. In terms of backing vocals, Petrucci and Portnoy were notorious for being poor backing vocalists, but at least that tells us they were doing it for real. On particular occasions, they used playbacks for the intros of songs like Pull Me Under, Metropolis, A Change Of Seasons, As I Am, and The Count Of Tuscany. As for why they did that, I'm guessing something about the way those went down tonally in the studio was too hard to replicate live. But that's entirely different from what you're claiming. After MP quitting, they started using playbacks for parts that could easily be executed live, and parts for which they did not use playbacks in the past. Step in the wrong direction. Portnoy has also stated on his website, in his FAQ section, that he would never play with a live click track. I believe him, because he has a much better track record of telling the truth than LaBrie, Petrucci, or Rudess.
As someone who has just left my band of five years... Yes, LaBrie is not doing great on stage, but fuck me leaving is hard and I can't imagine after 30+ years. You're asking him to cut off his arms, asking the other guys to kick out a brother. When I was facing tendonitis issues the band was discussing any options to keep me around including backing tracks for bass. I left for other reasons in the end but it was the hardest thing I had to do - and that's like I said, 5 years, not 30+ or however many it's been for DT. Maybe if people weren't so harsh they could have been more transparent about how they orchestrate live shows, but it's been years of criticism. Yes I agree he's a pants singer but he's also a human with feelings. It's not as easy as "get a new singer" unless you're a sociopath with no sentimentality or emotional connection.
I don't get why LaBrie defenders always harp on his length of time in the band as some kind of get-out-of-jail free card. Geoff Tate got kicked out of Queensryche after about 30 years when he, too, became an embarrassing liability, and guess what? The band got BETTER as a result. They need to have objectivity about the job LaBrie is doing, and not just give him special treatment because he's "family" to them. On that note, we don't know how Petrucci, Myung, and Rudess really feel about James. It could be that they resent his vocals, but are contractually powerless to get rid of him.
Something I made back in 2016 or 2017 that is a mashup of Home, Lost Not Forgotten, A Rite Of Passage, and LaBrie's solo song, I Got You. The whole thing will be back on TH-cam before long, unless Dream Theater starts targeting me with DMCAs.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 76 | คู่เอก "ผึ้งหลวง vs สมิงดำ"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9SBshmGQOIM/mqdefault.jpg)
I am not interested in any defenses of John Petrucci on this video unless someone has proof that Rudess is playing the note that John is clearly not. It sounds much more like a lead guitar than a keyboard. Saying "John is playing along with a backing track that's a harmony" is not a defense. Not in the eyes of those of us who take a hardline stance against playbacks that could fool an audience into thinking a band member is actually playing them. The TV SHOW and MOVIE samples used by Kevin Moore, the thunderclap at the beginning of A Nightmare To Remember, the use of the intro from the studio version of The Count Of Tuscany are totally different scenarios than what DT is doing now. Those do not have the potential to fool audiences into thinking they're "real," as in a function of one of the band members on stage. There are frustratingly many Dream Theater fans who accept my conclusions about LaBrie, but get pissy any time I say a bad word about Petrucci. It's - to borrow a phrase used for one of John's solo songs - "wishful thinking." Petrucci has done a poor job of leading Dream Theater compared to Portnoy, and the fact that Dream Theater won a Grammy for The Alien is irrelevant. A lot of garbage pop and rap artists have won Grammys by now. My next video will concern Petrucci, due to not enough people accepting his downfall and corruption.
Tyler Erdmann: you're gone. Not only was your reply to the above comment incomprehensible, you're a fool if you think I would toss out my name and occupation when I've gotten death threats from Dream Theater fans, and some people would probably try to get me fired from my job. Is my identity relevant to my criticisms of DT? Only to people in denial of reality, who have nothing else they can reach for, it is.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 lol, the only person in denial of reality, with nothing to reach for, is you. You've clearly got a hard on for trying to disrespect DT. It's quite sad.
This debate reminds me of Rush, who explicitly worked to play everything live by themselves with no backing tracks. Any of the guys could trigger samples of backing vocals, keyboard parts, and more at any time. That was a rod they made for their own backs, a self-imposed limitation that influenced what they did (or didn’t) do live. I’m conflicted about that - in the longer comment I just posted, I expressed some sympathy for the demands bands face on tour, but also concern about how some bands deal with that.
At first, I also thought Rudess is playing along with Petrucci and that last note is played by the keyboard player, considering he can split his keyboard into several sections. I'm not entirely sure, though.
Well.. JP had balls to retired LaBrie and search a young blood vocalist that can refresh DT with a much better vocal and tone.. that cappable to hit that note without any help on mixing or sound enginere tweak on studio or live.. and i think Beast on Black vocalist Yannis papadopoulos is a good replacement for LaBrie.. he has an insane amount of power and sound register..
Would have been great if he’d said “you think I’m lip-syncing?? Then why do I still sound so awful on songs from images and words!?”
They need to fire Labrie, stop screwing Mangini's sound with the production and just overall have more respect to themselves. Portnoy, whether you like him or not, was like a quality control for Dt
Well.. He's back!
John Petrucci definitely not using playbacks. I could hear some mistakes when I saw them live. I'm glad that they are using backing track with Labrie, because he probably sounds awful without it. It makes me more comfortable to bring non-DT fans to a concert.
Bruh, he clearly is using backing track in this video. There is no way he could play that high note when holding his hand around the 3rd fret. It is propably done to make the sound fuller though or something. That part is not even hard to play, so it is bit weird that he is using backing track.
@@hyppyrotta71 It's a transitional part so in the recording it rings out as the next part gets dubbed in over top but live you can't do that so it would make sense to use a playback just for that note to ring out so he can begin the next section. Just so it sounds like the recording. In the studio, nobody records live and in one-take and what happens is sometimes you write a part that can't be perfectly replicated live without sacrificing something to make it work. So, an easy way to get around that is using backing tracks just to fill in that gap note here and there so you don't hurt the integrity of the song and what people expect to hear.
As of 2024...i can't justify spending the money to hear James croak and strain the vocals while the band plays flawlessly. Sadly he just ruins the performance. He absolutely butchers almost everything.
You don't say. You'd be shocked how many fans are still in denial.
Thank god for someone smart here :) agree, labrie is the worst…like an old lady screaming on stage
labrie should be nowhere near a stage with this caliber musicians. nor on a record either. there are thousands of better singers to chose from.
its funny how he says hes been singing a lower octave but when you watch the live videos of him before being called out you can notice that his body language (idk if its the right term for this but i think you get what i mean) suggests that he is singing the higher octave. Like, just by looking at his facial expression and how he stands still simulating some kind of "struggle" you get the idea that he is singing (pretending to) the higher octave
And then after being called out and starting to actually sing the lower octave his body language is completely different, he walks around the stage and his expressions suggest some kind of "boredom" , this time matching what he is actually singing.
I dont see many people pointing this out and i feel like this is a pretty obvious proof that he is lying when he says he has been singing that lower octave the entire time
I don’t have anything against Labrie, but I also think he lied. He did lip sync.
@@AMGU2B The consensus is that if he wasn't outright trying to lip sync, he was covering up his vocals with a much louder playback, which isn't any better.
"I've been looking forward to this."
I think with the last note of JP’s solo, they do have the pre recorded note on the tracks since he’s supposed to go to the outro riff immediately after the last note of the solo. LaBrie however, no excuse, and he clearly only started doing the octave thing after getting called out. I think the entire debacle could have been avoided entirely if their sound guy just didn’t have the pre recorded vocals in the tracks so much louder than LaBrie’s actual live singing. Who in their camp thought they could fool a bunch of prog nerds in any case?
You're acting like what Petrucci is doing is OK. It's not. We need to take a hardline stance against any playbacks that could fool an audience into thinking a performer is actually playing the notes, when they're not. Something like the "6:00 on a Christmas morning" sample or thunder clap at the beginning of A Nightmare To Remember are totally different, because no one is going to think they're live. Pea-brained Dream Theater defenders routinely try to draw equivalencies between those things, and what DT is doing now though.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 If that’s where you want to draw your hard line, fair enough. I personally don’t care too much about one note at the end of a solo to keep the guitars sounding like the album but fake vocals and or full passages of instruments on a pre recorded track I’m not ok with. I am probably a little biased however as I played with a band that could never find someone to play bass live so we used the album tracks through the PA and just played to a click. It’s not what we wanted to do but was necessary. DT definitely doesn’t have that problem though so their issues are definitely manufactured.
@@scottofsc Not everybody goes to live shows to "hear something like the album." That's an assumption underpinning a lot of the dodgy backing track practices going on right now. There could easily be many people who want something different from the record. And, as I say in the video, it's likely there's more than just that one note being faked by Petrucci.
@@icedragon769 You talk out of your butt, Ice Dragon. As I said in my comment to Scott Barber, the only "backing tracks" they used in the distant past were Kevin Moore's movie and TV show samples. These did not have the ability to mislead people into thinking the band was actually performing them live, like DT's current playbacks do. I am very well-versed in DT bootlegs and the band's live history. Until Portnoy's departure, they WERE a raw live band other than their disappointing official live releases that had lots of studio overdubbing and editing (Live At The Marquee, Change Of Seasons, Score, and everything subsequent to Store).
@@tshddx "But backing tracks for multitracked instrumental parts like that are ridiculously common and the vast majority of concert-goers are totally fine with it. "
That's a big claim on your part that's going to require big evidence to justify. Do you have polls showing this? I believe you are just making assumptions. People may go to concerts for purposes of nostalgia, or just seeing one of their favorite bands in the flesh, even if they don't agree with all modern music practices. It's also tautological to say that "concertgoers are OK with current concert practices." No shit. People who go to gay bars are, by definition, OK with homosexuality. There could be people not going to concerts of mainstream bands out of disgust with the music industry. I am one of them. How many others out there are like me? I don't know, but unlike you, I'm not going to make claims about that which I have no empirical evidence for.
You know what Devin Townsend did when he started noticing his vocals sucking live? He identified that he was drinking and smoking way too much and not sleeping enough while on tour, which was all damaging his throat, and decided to quit those habits for the sake of his voice, music, and overall sanity. Now his voice sounds as great as it ever did in his 50s, he can still scream, and hit almost all of the ridiculous high notes he could in his 20s, some even higher than LaBrie ever could. Yes, he uses some vocal pads like choirs and backing vocals (he is a solo artist now, using band tracks comes with the territory), but I dont think I've ever seen Devin use a doubling track for his lead vocal parts live, and I've sure as shit never seen him walk away from a microphone during one of his many prolonged vocal lines while still hearing him sing. To say "this is what happens with old age" is only true when the singer hasn't taken good care of his voice for the previous 50 years of his life.
But "The Alien" just won a goddamn Grammy because these guys have Roadrunner money to bribe people with. :/
Devin also scaled back on the number of playbacks at live shows after fan complaints.
you could AT LEAST be commited enough to not lower the mic too early during the vocal part lol
DT are no longer with RR and are now signed to Inside Out.
@@SimonSkipper Which is great because now every single album comes with an instrumental version. Nothing against Labrie but some songs are so insane as instrumentals, Distance over Time for example sounds a lot better as an instrumental.
The way i see it, James labrie should try to modify the way he sings live to be more forgiving with his voice (like what he did on his new solo album), it may be slightly divisive but hey, maybe it would be cool to hear some of the old songs in a new light, a more melodic approach that doesn't has him hitting the high notes so often.
Hell, Sammy Hagar has been described as having awful, throat damaging technique, and at 74 years, he's still out there kickin and sounds great singing.
Tommy Shaw, 68, still sounds great.
And the list can go on.
The age argument sounds great in a vacuum. As soon as you start looking at others in his age range, and even much older, it falls apart.
Further, that James feels the need to come out during a live show and defend himself from the allegations doesn't help either. He's in a hugely successful band.. He doesn't have to prove himself to anyone. Yet, there he is. "The singer doth protest to much, methinks".
What I don't get is out of all the vocal parts in DT's giant catalog why does he try so hard to get away with lip syncing on the end of bridges in the sky? It doesn't seem like a particularly difficult part, at that point he might as well lipsync the infamous high part in pull me under.
It may be on his passaggio. Notes there may be hard to sustain, and that whole section is full of them. Higher doesn't always mean harder
@@gianfrixmgthose are not even high-mid notes so he shouldn't have problems with passagio, especially with his vocal range.
And also speaking of that, his range decreased enormously in only 10 years, the man can't even belt easy notes like G4 anymore, and there's no thing in the world to help him improve.
You got a "fuck you" from LaBrie. That means you're doing things right.
@Wilmer Waarbroek in this video lol. 3:25
One thing that just blows my mind, is how fucking lazy is Labrie to repeatedly make the same mistakes of dropping his mic too early night after night. You’d think he would make some sort of effort in his stage presence to at least not make it look so obvious and embarrassing.
DT has become very lazy since Portnoy left, especially live : Backing tracks, lip sync, unchanged setlist...This band is not what it used to be
Well...
@@Antimonuu you still come back to this?
It'll be interesting to see if Portnoy can even salvage the band at this point. Say what you want about Mangini or his lack of involvement, but in a way that's a defense of him. He's not been the one who's been making these decisions, both during the writing process and outside of it. From what I can tell he's just been doing his job competently enough, and always seemed passionate about the music unlike some other members. Kicking out Magini doesn't fix the problems, Portnoy has to fix them now
They are unsalvageable with LaBrie.
portnoy is not letting petrucci make shit. I am sure of that. So at least I am sure we can take joy in the instrumentals. Labrie is tough considering he was the impediment on portnoy coming back and he had a change of heart. It would be kinda like a backstab now if portnoy fired him. Labrie has to resign on his own terms and on his own will.
I think Portnoy can change where the band goes musically. As for the industry standard practices it will probably stay the same with click tracks and pre recorded stuff, even if they kick LaBrie out off the band
@@iurinogueira Portnoy has stated on his website that he would never play with a live click. Good on him.
“I’ve never lip synced in my entire life” LOL
The guy also claimed he was one of the "primary" melody writers on Distance Over Time, when he's not credited as such in the liner notes. A bit of an issue with honesty, that one.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 I don’t understand why they don’t just get rid of him
@@mutatednut That's something we've been discussing for years. The band has never put forth any sort of justification despite the large backlash against LaBrie.
He also said that in their live "Distant Memories" there are no overdubbed vocals. LOL
@@albertandrew1183 Even if he's telling the truth, his vocals are still insidiously pitch corrected.
The blatant denial from LaBrie is truly astonishing. This really is disgraceful.
For the Petrucci part, they obviously have the song in the background, most likely just incase this something like this would happen, its also much quieter so you can tell if he is actually playing or not. my guess for playing in the background is for more depth, because it could sound a bit more hollow without it
Need Portnoy back and Russell Allen in vocals.
Look at the Concert Rock in Rio you can clearly hear the backing track in almost all the the songs with a good ear or good pair of headphones
The funniest part is that the section LaBrie is lip syncing is not even that high nor hard to sing live.
Now Portnoy announced he is coming back to DT. I hope some changes can be made for future concerts because this is beyond pathetic.
The guitar playback was a harmony note, JP uses prerecorded harmonies in many of his live performances
Right? All these are just harmonies, this guy is a moron
"You can make a fortune in lies, you can keep a giant alive."
Who wrote that? Oh yeah, John Petrucci. The same guy who is doing just that right now.
Also, John Petrucci has more than enough gear to use an actual guitar harmonizer (with his AxeFX III, for example) instead of having it pre-recorded. There's no good excuse for him of having such a thing on backtracks.
By the way, Debut album is actually good and not a piece of shit as many think. Maybe that's because I come from the Metal side of the band rather than the Prog side.
@@mercyfulfatedude2341 I love When Dream And Day Unite! In fact, if I had to pick a single DT album to listen to, that would probably be it, due to my disgust with LaBrie, plus I never listened to it enough when I considered myself a fan of the band.
you'll have a field day with his Rio performance
James massacred Count of Tuscanny
If you're so opposed to backing tracks, then what's your thoughts on a band like Rings of Saturn that records albums with like 3-4 guitars playing harmonies at once and then having a harmony track in the background live?
that's way different, they are not trying to pretend playing 3-4 guitars at once live of course, that's understandable. But faking LEAD VOCALS? that's on another level
Rush always used playback backing vocals, for example in Subdivisions, and bizarrely Alex Lifeson always mimed them. But NO-ONE thought those BVs were actually Alex for real.
Dream Theater 2022 09 02 Rock in rio - a lot of interesting moments) in end of Tuscany Labie dont sing his part, but put mic in audience, but his recorded voice sings endings woah part
I was at their show in Krakow in May, and what I must say is that live that lower octave in bridges is louder than on videos that i've seen.
But obviously I'm not saying that he was not lip-syncing that part at the start of the american leg. What is also very interesting, there are a few more higher and difficult vocal lines in this year setlist that James was actually singing.
Just came out of the São Paulo concert and had the same LaBrie experience that you showcase in your video.
th-cam.com/video/L6ipyM2gJng/w-d-xo.html about the Petrucci solo, in this video from Orlando FL, he ends the solo bending the highest E to Fsharp. There's a prerecorded track that goes along with all the solo with harmony notes, and that ends with the same bend, but an octave lower.
First and foremost, congratulations on posting these videos. I admire your unbiased approach. You do show and critize what it is obvious: they are over the hill. Are they in the red as well??
On the other hand, it seems that LaBrie cannot be fired due to a technicality. Is it a perpetual clause?? Can a member of a band be bound to their brand forever?? Not being a lawyer I would like to know. I didn't know such a clause could be applied.
Be that as it may, DT's creative and artistic potential started to hit rock bottom since Moore decided to leave. Awake is DT's magnum opus. They have launched various so-so/catchy/cheesy songs since Moore left, but a well-rounded album they have not recorded.
Congratulations once again. Unbrainwashing zombie fans is a feat.
Love your caption though, Spirit of the Radio truly resonates with most bands nowadays...
At this point I've come to the same conclusion as you: that JLB is only still there because some sort of contractual/business agreement where it's near-impossible to actually fire him without his consent. For a while I thought it was just an issue of JP just not caring enough (since he's demonstrably less dedicated to being the bandleader than MP) or literally being in denial (openly admitting to Beato that he has no vocals in his mix AKA not wanting to face how consistently bad JLB sounds live) but the fact that DT is now fully "masking" his real live voice with prerecorded tracks proves that DT is fully aware and either wants to show mercy on the listeners' ears or doesn't want to face backlash, which obviously backfired. BTW I saw them on this tour and there were several times when James's vocals went from noticeably quiet to "normal volume". At the time I thought it was just a sound issue but it's quite possible that it was actually the "helper" track not being activated on time. Same thing happened with JP's guitar, which I thought was similarly a soundboard issue or signal problems with his stereo amp rig but he may very well be running playbacks as you suggested as well.
Damn... How one of the big boys has fallen... I wonder, and maybe you can answer these questions to me since you seem to know a lot about the band's history, I guess... Do you think we would be hearing a different story about LaBrie if...
1) He had rested his vocals for some months after tearing them apart in '94 instead of going with the Awake tour?
2) Had he not kept using that weird distortion/grit technique he used for Awake? A lot of professionals think that the way he did his vocal fry in Awake was what actually ended up killing his vocals, not singing non-stop (at least not by itself)
3) If they had listened to Portnoy and actually stayed down for a bit when he said so in 2009-2010?
And as a general question. Do you think any of this would have happened if Portnoy was still aboard? My guess to this last one is no, because he knows how hard it can be to sing from being a backing vocalist, and they would have kept a trend of writing songs that made the best out of LaBrie's remaining vocal capacities. Plus, he would probably be beating the shit out of them from suggesting the use of backing tracks lmao
I've always found the food poisoning story a farce and I'll explain. This channel actually somewhat proves it too. If you listen to Labrie singing the "Watch the sparrow falling" part of "Pull Me Under", it's not an immediate rupture of vocal chords. It's a slowly, by degree voice worsening due to age and lack of maintenance. Labrie has been known to be somewhat lazy, so I doubt his voice is an exception to that pattern. Because to me, he didn't start really losing stride until like maybe 2004-05, then he hit a cliff. Just my two cents
You can answer these questions by looking at some events where they actually get to do these hypothetical scenarios:
1.) Way back in 1996, DT were able to get a nice long break and when they performed their first show in '97, Labrie was almost in his top form, just watch the Killing Hand from '97 which was also from that very first show in '97. What I'm trying to say is that: Yes! Had James listened to his doctors' advice and took a year-long break, he would've saved his voice from declining much sooner. But, this might also put the band in hard situation.
2.) Throughout the Traint of Thought era up until Black Clouds, he noticeably put less to no rasps on songs from I&W and Awake so that did help him reserve his vocal strength. When he returned to doing it from 2011-2013, he became weaker after that. Him being in his early 50's at that time also is a factor
3.) The best way to look at this what-if scenario is to look at Avenged Sevenfold. Both bands had their singers suffer an unfortunate circumstance: M Shadows was unable to both talk and sing due to a viral infection in 2018 in his throat. Fortunately for him, the pandemic happened, and they didn't want to do any tours or release their new album until this year when tours were at full swing, so he gets to have a 5-year rest. How does he do today? He's much stronger than when he last toured in 2018 albeit rusty but had the band not rested, he would've been Labrie-levels of worst.
Isn't is possible that the last note Petrucci is supposed to be playing is in the backing track because he has to get back to the rhythm part? Maybe it's just to make the transition more seamless. Besides, at the exact moment he breaks the string, no backing track is heard except for the very last bend.
Just my attempt at explaining it.
Yes, it is possible. A good way to test this is to find a clip from another show (same track and same tour) and check if his last note from the solo will keep ringing when he changes to the rhythm part. If there is a note ringing we can at least consider this theory.
that's exactly what it is
Ravenskill, I just wanted to ask you on why did you say (not in this video) that Labrie vocal problems on studio albums started on The Astonishing? It was evident that Labrie used Autotune or other form of pitch correction since Octavarium (you can hear artefacts of bad production on e.g. Repentance 1:41, The Ministry of Lost Souls 4:00, A Nightmare to Remember 4:32, Wither 0:50
I don't know where I stated something to that effect. I may have said that The Astonishing was the first album with really loud, really obvious pitch correction. But clearly, he was not doing a good enough job well in advance of The Un-Astonishing.
Wow....never heard DT since 2000...what a great song. I ll check em out right now.
Damn. As much as I didn't want to admit it before, you actually have solid evidence. I can't believe I'm apparently being fooled by my favorite band...
I paid a heavy price for speaking out against what this band was doing five years ago. I saw the direction they were heading in and that things were only going to get worse and worse. The tide has turned in my favor.
At least you can admit it. I'm a huge TOOL and Deftones fan, but can admit I don't agree with Danny Carey (my drumming idol)'s occultism or the fact that Deftones dropped Sergio recently and Chino was a dick about it. It sucks, but denying solid evidence is even worse than the band denying what they're doing.
I have *some* sympathy for touring bands in general, since the demands for musical perfection every night would be beyond me personally. We hope that every gig we see is the band’s best gig, but in reality it’s not possible. To me it’s about how they handle these demands, with or without integrity.
Take Yes, for example, and how they basically booted Jon Anderson when he had some respiratory problems that meant he couldn’t tour until he recovered (which he did). That nearly killed my interest in anything they would do in the future, and they basically become a “repertory” band, playing casinos etc. Then Chris Squire died, and that was that. Not that Billy Sherwood isn’t excellent, but Yes is now the musical equivalent of a touring theater company. You don’t go and see them for a unique experience.
Is Dream Theater going the same way? To me they jumped the shark when Derek left, twenty years ago. I last saw them in Dublin, a city they have never returned to since the gig was poorly promoted and didn’t sell out totally. (This month they’re playing Belfast, but not Dublin, a bigger city.) Mike was still there but the soul was gone.
Sadly you can also see this in the more recent gigs - e.g. Rock in Rio where there are the main vocals playing as backing tracks whilst James Labrie sings over them:
th-cam.com/video/ltjiA8wOWqE/w-d-xo.html
e.g. 15:53 in the above video
God that's REALLY bad.
I dont hear anything wrong in johns playing though, it sounds more like he fucked up the final note, the climax more than anything else and rushed the fuck out of it. Mistakes happen, I dont hear any playback here or its so faint that you really cant catch it. Ill have to look that up again.
Now for James, this is inexcusable. Plus its on Bridges in the Fucking Sky. Like this was from the beginning of the end era, first post Portnoy album where fucking James sang like on a ballad throughout the record and had is herrrendous "angel up the to sky reverb" filter (I couldnt find a better name yet I fucking hate it, especially on distance over time). Bridges is not even hard to sing at all. its very low range, nothing too hard even for like 1h shows, even at 60YO. Bruce dickinson can do 100000 times better. Hell, even fucking Rob Halford from the Redeemer of Souls days could do better than that. Fucking hell, James, dude, you are a multimillionaire, made incredible records with the band, you will have more than a name in the Pantheon of prog. Just cause you would call it a day does not mean you will not be remembered fondly. Like... James is seriously the problem. At least Mike Mangini got his shit together finally after 5 albums. Took a while but we got there eventually.
I've always wondered what LaBrie's motive is. Yes, the band is lucrative, and that is one thing, but why repeatedly subject yourself to humiliation, and now resort to using playbacks, when that's giving obvious ammunition to "the haters?" Is he doing this out of spite for Mike Portnoy? Does he think he's proving some sort of esoteric point about how tough he is by staying in the band despite massive opposition? No one cares. We're only interested in hearing good music.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 I can tell you his motive easily. What else is he going to do? Who is going to recruit a sixty year old singer with crocked vocal cords, who is obese, a mediocre (at best) frontman and who consistently embarrasses himself and his bandmates by wailing like a banshee being tortured to death slowly? Dream Theater is the only game in town for all of these guys, not just LaBrie. They are all trapped in Dream Theater now. Love him or hate him, Portnoy since leaving has been consistently authentic and hasn't done anything that whiffs even slightly like a record that has been produced to death. These guys are like a sports coach who lost the edge and got promoted to the board. It's over. I don't care about the Grammy, they are just a business now and if that's what they want then fine but I'm not going to pretend that it's alright.
@@sourcescience That's always been my gut feeling too. I think it boils down to laziness and inertia on the part of LaBrie. If he can't have a career in music, he'd have to find something else to fill his time. He could get a job doing physical labor, but nah, that's too much work. He could go to college and study something (like Kevin Moore did), but nah, that's too much work too.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 he wouldnt even fucking need it. JLB has enough money to sit on his ass all day till the end of his days. Easily.
at 2:26, he broke the string while bending the 24th fret on the e string, so i´m assuming he broke that string. The next note would´ve been probably on the 24th fret Estring without the bend. He moved closer to the neck of the guitar, i assume to the 5th fret b string. the pinch harmonic there is the same sound like the 24 on the broken e string. the question is, will the whole guitar detune if you break a string? a lot of bridges have that, I dont know if he has a built in mechanic to avoid it.
Hoy bro, you have no idea how much I've loved your channel all this time, I've spent the last 13 years of my life trashing every moron in the DT fanbase, I see you're not not very active for a while and I hope that like me you're happy with the boss's return to the band, I hope to find a way to exchange with you and I hope you are doing well 🤘
I'm still around and read nearly all of the comments on this channel. I am not happy about Mike Portnoy's return to the band. There is evidence that LaBrie's vocals (and the inability to fire LaBrie) are the main reason Portnoy left Dream Theater, so what is the point in him coming back if the vocals are going to the be same? I've been mulling over some new videos for over a year, but I am not sure how necessary they would be. People who still like what the band is doing are not changing their minds, and they interpret anything I post as evidence that I spend every waking hour of my life seething with rage towards Dream Theater. You either see what a sham the band is now, or you don't. If I do make some new videos, some things I want to touch on are the gratuitous gear endorsements by JR, and how JP has lied multiple times about the Majesty guitars.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 Nice to read you again or just have news, for me DT was on a downward slope since 2006, the period between 99 and 05 was undoubtedly the most memorable it's like talking about Pep Guardiola's Barca, Mike Portnoy was a visionary he knew that the machine was running out of steam, I think the problem was deeper than that, there have always been tensions between him and Labrie, that's for sure, in fact James is the first to have said publicly that Portnoy was never going to come back, quite cheeky coming from a member who isn't even one of the founders, but I don't think that was the cause of Mike's departure, there was a decline in Systematic and Black Clouds, I'm not saying they're bad albums but it was a little less inspired than 99-05 where there was a constant evolution in the writing and even in the musical directions, Mike knew that the group needed to recharge his batteries and the band should have followed his advice except no, I'm not even going to talk about what happened after he left, I think we can all agree that it was boring as hell, the only album down is Distance, but the fact that Portnoy is back Hypes me, I won't hide it from you, the latest Liquid Tension is more inspired than anything this band has been able to produce in 13 years, there is an alchemy between MP and JP which is unique, it's comparable to James and Lars or the Abbott brothers, and more importantly, we will no longer listen to the rigidity nor the plastic sound of the drummer who got fired
Mike mangini said at one of his clinics that one of the changes DT made once he joined the band was use click tracks, as anyone who plays or is involved in playing music knows, click tracks can either be just the click or it can be have a bunch of other things in there like backing vocals and sound effects or other parts that’s the band can’t replicate live. So it would stand to reason that they probably are using some sort of vocal track live as well to assist LaBrie
Adressing rumors that you're lipsyncing is basically admitting that you're lipsyncing...😂
In a band with only one guitarist, having the last note of that solo be playback is a no brainer. He has a rhythm part which begins at the beginning of the bar, and it's unreasonable to do it any other way (i.e. letting the note ring out and having to start the riff a couple notes late, all for one note to be played live and ultimately sound worse?) If you think about it for a second it makes a lot of sense, especially from the standpoint of a performer. Tbh, a lot of performers and audiences just don't care about every note being 100% live, they want it to sound good. Its only the snobs who really worry about it. Its different when it comes to difficult passages, since miming those would be deceptive, but one measly note? Come on.
You are dishonest. Type as many words as you want to, you are still defending lies.
while i find some of your other videos to be nonsensical, and as much as i dont want to admit it, you have some pretty good points and evidence where its simply undeniable that james is using prerecorded tracks to heavily (if not fully) cover up his voice, which is no better than lip syncing.
I have no expectation of people agreeing with me on every single point, but in the big picture sense, I can't see how anyone could deny Dream Theater going totally off the rails some time around the mid 2010s. Terrible live vocals, terrible drum engineering on DT12 and Astonishing, terrible filler material and marketing of Astonishing, the Live At Wacken embarrassment, grotesquely pitch-corrected vocals on Distance Over Time, now the lip-sync controversy as well. Five Eight Forums, David Oakes, and other idiots say we should ignore all of this, and keep attacking Mike Portnoy because death growls or something.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 what about Portnoy and growls? I'm out of the loop tbh
@@VHCosta Forum circle jerks from dreamtheaterforums.org, fiveeightforums.com, and r/DreamTheater are always going off about how Portnoy is the worst thing ever because of the growls on A Nightmare To Remember and other late 2000s-songs, perceived "narcissistic" statements from Portnoy. How wrong they've turned out to be. And that's with the caveat that I don't find many of Portnoy's other bands to be particularly interesting. Portnoy and Dream Theater need each other. Dream Theater does not need LaBrie or Mangini.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 I used to be a hardcore DT fan. I still like their old stuff, but they really haven't released anything noticeable in 20 years. Their new stuff is okay, that's it. Their decline has started years before Portnoy left, and the only thing I really liked from him is The Winery Dogs. But LaBrie, my god, he's been the weakest link for such a long time. It's also the reason why DT ended up being more metal and generally stay around lower registers. It's like their songs have lost brightness, going from being multicolored canvases to scales of grays. And that started in the mid 2000s anyway.
Portnoy wanted to stop the cycle of a new album and tour every 2 years, and he was right. You can't be this productive and keep the quality high. They should have taken the Rush route. Don't break up, but make a new album when really inspired. That's how you end up with a career full of highs. It's sad.
Carson Pomeroy: you never mentioned which other videos of mine you find to be nonsensical.
I'm still sorry I missed this concert, dangit.
3:48 what type of "home" version is that??
I think they just decided to use the riff from home in lost not forgotten when playing live thats my guess. DT do that a lot with other songs.
@@ASCENSI0N22 thank you for the explanation
They are using backing tracks and he's singing together with a recorded voice. A tons of band uses this nowadays.
can you do a video about peter john ross and matthew berdyck?
This makes me so sad. How the mighty have fallen. DT were my favourite band for a long time, to see them go down this route is truly depressing.
Prog metal fans go see Opeth instead where everything is live, no tracks, no overdubs, no fakery. Just live music 🤘🏻 Mikaels singing voice has only gotten better, unlike LaBrie
While Opeth is Amazing, i feel other bands like: Riverside, Soen, Leprous and Ayreon are great picks to see live too, you have some of the most unique voices there, in fact, i believe anyone who likes Mikael will be satisfied with the performances of the aforementioned bands.
Maybe also add some others like Caligula's Horse, Tesseract, Protest the Hero and Vola to spice things up a little, also they're finger licking good, you're in for a treat.
It seems they watched these videos because on the new european leg in 2023 they've dropped ALL vocal tracks, Labrie is singing an octave up that part in Bridges and PETRUCCI'S BACKING VOCALS ARE TOTALLY LIVE
And it's still not enough because LaBrie's vocals still totally suck.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 I mean, he's okay on some songs which require a lower register, but they put back PULL ME UNDER and he's doing a mess every night, he's much worse than 2019 and struggling like hell. I think that if they hired some young blood or a singer whose voice was better preserver (dickinson) they could prolong their career and not be limited (because obviously his voice is limiting them) because they are in very good form instrumentally, Petrucci when I saw them didn't miss a note. But I get that if they fired him, they would lose a lot of fans, kinda like Queensryche without Geoff Tate
@@GuerrillaGuitar Queensryche saved themselves by firing Tate. Dedicated To Chaos and Frequency Unknown were absolute embarrassments.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 I have mixed feelings because on one side you have the human/friendship aspect, I mean it's not a machine in which you swap replacements. On the other hand Labrie's declining vocal range is limiting them both in the studio and live, Pull me Under on this 2023 tour was a cringeworthy disaster
@@GuerrillaGuitar There's no reason why they couldn't remain friends with LaBrie if he exited the band, unless he's such a drama queen that his ego wouldn't be able to handle being told he's doing a shitty job.
Whoever made the remix in the background deserves a Grammy what a cool song hahaha
A Rite Home Forgotten
Interesting. I know about the "vocal issue", and I'd like a replacement for the quality. (At this point even I could train myself a bit and do better...) It's clearly not the lack of singers, but something else.
I've never seen the JP clip, I also want them to play what they can (and not what they could?).
Let's see what will change now that MP is back. Are you excited? Do you think they can raise the quality back?
They’re old. That’s what it is. They can’t keep up with the studio recordings. I remember when systematic chaos came out I thought no way he can play constant motion live without mistakes, and then I saw chaos in motion, most of it was butchered. They’re trying too fast for themselves and are overestimated themselves. Call it a day and leave on a high note while you still can.
Their opportunity to end on a high note passed a long time ago. The Last Hurrah of the band was A Dramatic Turn Of Events, and the ensuing tour, and that was 12-13 years ago. It also would have looked weak for them to do just one album after Portnoy quit, so there's no way they would have called it a day there.
18:55 in count of Tuscany watch?v=5DG8eAvEHTk you can also hear a backing track and then LaBrie kicking in his live vocals in direct comparison.
Are these mashups playing in the background available anywhere to listen to?
I'll bring back the full versions soon.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 cheers for that, looking forward to all of them!
That Quebec City one is so blatant. And the way James responded on stage to people who caught him doing that doesn't help.
What is the cover story going to be now? That the sound engineer turned his "real" vocals too low at all shows prior to the Philadelphia one? This is why it's a terrible idea to even mess around with playbacks.
Yep! and Yuk! I loved them up until Six Degrees, then felt disappointed by the Train of Turds and didn't bought a single CD after that. Listened a couple of time to Octacrap, felt disappointed and didn't even listen to newer releases after that. That's how much disappointed I was. Then I casually read of Portnoy quitting, I saw the mini series of auditions, I heard in disbelief how robotic Mangini sounded, and nope nope nope... Every time they reach a new bottom. Now lip synch and playback backing vocals? Oh my... I'm going to listen to some Cliff Burton isolated tracks to clean my soul.
I feel like, even with Portnoy, they thought they can compose anything as if they are Frank Zappa, but they aren't at a musical level since they box themself in the metal genre, and for sure they aren't FZ at a comedic level; so the result is a soup of cliché of various bands at the limit of covers, plagiarism and copying the sound of the production (like in Octacrap, but I didn't listen after that), some Disney music, some circus music, tornado of notes, all in metal sauce. Boring.
You got me with the "as if he's ashamed" lol, nice one
Yeesh... that's bad. I don't have any excuse for the LaBrie stuff but I think the Petrucci stuff is okay - most likely the last note of the solo is prerecorded because it covers over a rhythm section. Also the octave down stuff is weird but that at least makes some sense, but the straight up lip syncing is really bad. Unfortunate to see one of my favorite bands go like this
Obviously undeniable, but I'm genuinely curious as to if you're even a Dream Theater FAN seeing all but one video criticizing and exposing them in some way shape or form.
That was even crazier proof. The reason he sings to the ground is most likely because he doesn’t want the crowd to know he’s lip syncing!
I haven't enjoyed arena shows for about a decade now. All these big bands are turning half their show into karaoke. I love metal and rock for the thrill of watching people actually interacting and vibing off each other.
I was super irritated when I saw Periphery in London the other year and two out of 6 members were just playback (bass has been for years and Mark Halcomb was out for his divorce stuff). It sucked.
I enjoy going to local gigs or smaller venues way more these days (although even some small bands are now basically putting their shows on rails and it does take some excitement away).
Singers are replaced all the time in bands, like wtf? He can bow out, he's not an original member and there's hardly a fan that goes to see 20 minute prog epics for some guy with no charisma or vocal range.
Talking about lip syncing onstage is like older Lenny Bruce and his act descending into tedious, long and boring rants about the government being out to get him.
I would no have problem with LaBrie firing back if it was a false accusation. But the videos speak for themselves. If the goal was not to outright lip-sync, then this elusive "harmony" he was singing was so quiet at the vast majority of shows that it appeared virtually indistinguishable from lip-syncing, and was therefore a terrible idea. Shame on DT.
I doubt the instrumentalists are struggling to keep up with their past works, but the LaBrie stuff doesnt surprise me at all.
I paid for a live performance, and that is what I should get. Anything other than what the four guys performed on stage is deceptive and fraudulent. Any band/artist should be upfront and transparent about what type of performance they are providing. Example being Buckethead. Buckethead performs solo with backing tracks, and the audience is totally aware of if, and he is not trying to fool anyone doing so.
I mean, Buckethead is not even human (31 whole albums in a month? wtf), dude's insane skill overshadow any other instruments, besides, who better to change things and make adjustments than the man himself. IMO way better than arguing with other band members that wouldn't agree with the Bucket's artistic vision.
Please Resign. You are holding the Band down
waiting your next video
Your DT remixes are dope. Especially Bridges In The Sky. I know you’ve had a falling out with the band, but would it kill you to post your work?
I'll start bringing back the full versions soon. That's assuming Dream Theater doesn't start blasting me with DMCAs.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 awesome
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 They Definitely will, maybe make them unlisted and share them over Discord? The must be a workaround.
I thought of making a video comparing their old and new music. And what's specifically Is wrong the mangini Era. But it got really complicated. Would love to see you do something like that.
I was at that Oakland show and didn’t really notice the lip synching, and I’ve seen DT a bunch of times since the mid 90’s,but I think that was my last show because Labrie just sounds so awful nowadays. The recent tour with AAL & Devin Townsend was tempting, but ultimately skipped it. I love watching these guys live, mostly for the musicianship since I’m a drummer, but I just can’t keep take another show listening to JLB’s vocals.
Wow. Vocals and guitar??? That's just sad. At least with a band like kiss the music is still live. And Paul sang his heart out for 45 years! But this. Is a new low!
Will there be a new video soon?
2023, Mangini getting out while the getting is good.
yeah this is sad.
as a guitar player i'm more focused on petrucci and although i know i suck, i watched a few of the recordings of their tour, specifically the invisible monster solo because i like it and i can play it partially, and i can say that i haven't seen a recording where petrucci played it as it was recorded - he either makes a mistake or just does a sloppy job.
his decline, it seems, has started somewhere around 2020.
as far as james goes, i love his vocals and his style range is incredible on 6 degrees, but obviously he can't sing that good anymore.
i was meaning to see them this year, but i don't like the setlist apart for 3 songs, and if i'm gonna get my ears blasted off by a partially faked performance that is too loud, i don't think i'll be paying for that.
i'm just sad that i wasn't born earlier to see them in their prime because their music is still my favorite.
are you gonna make a video about petrucci doing real vocals again?
No, because how is that supposed to redeem the incompetent lead vocalist?
just talking about the back vocals and petrucci on its own.
I don't care if you use a backing track, Lying about it to the people who payed to see you though is scummy. As long as people know what they are paying for i am fine with it.
I met him at a concert some years ago...of all the members he was the one that reeked of arrogance the most. He couldn't hide it.
Yes, and wholly undeserved arrogance given the caliber of his vocals.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 Absolutely you're spot on and I'm not even "hating" or bashing him, I LOVE his voice on the early albums - I'm just stating facts that can be backed up by more than enough other testimonies. Given what I have seen on your channel and that it seems to be a red thread weaving through his life (as evidenced in Lifting Shadows by Mike Portnoy) that he loves to take credit for things that he doesn't deserve, the encounter I had with him confirmed that his ego is as inflated as a zeppelin airship.
The problem with these people is that they're immune to reason and good advice, because they're ego has blinded their judgement.
This is why LaBrie keeps making a fool of himself like a clown without himself realizing how absolutely ridiculous he often sounds and looks. I guess it's God's punishment for his arrogance that he leaves him in his darkened state of mind looking like a clown.
Sad truth being, his voice was originally of the highest caliber. It's the years of abuse which brought it to the current level. I remember listening Awake and thinking this is great stuff, but for how long can you keep that vocal delivery before your voice goes haywire?
It was on its way and the poisoning only sped the process up. Bruce Dickinson wasn't exactly kind to his pipes either, but he must have had been doing at least something right, and while audibly older and spent, his voice is still holding up much better than James'.
My experience was quite opposite, he was kind and patient, he was more than cool than letting me shoot video. He signed my brother shirt and asked us how are trip was, and if we enjoyed the show. It was like to talking to one of my friends. He seemed sincere to me. But that was in 2002, maybe he's changed since then, not sure.
@@DolkkarToyznstuff James seems like a cooler guy for about the first decade he was in the band than now. For whatever reason, he relinquished his integrity, with disastrous consequences.
This must be the most boring setlist of any DT tour ever.
I expected more SDOIT songs, or at least only The Glass Prison to be played.
The only two that worth are 6:00 and About to Crash, but even those songs don't sound that good like years many ago, and the other songs are just meh.
Never even occurred to me to care about the setlist when the vocalist is so handicapped. Priorities.
I seriously doubt The Glass Prison (or other complex songs from 6DOIT like Blind Faith and The Great Debate) will ever be played live again. That was DT on their prime in terms of speed, technique and execution.
JP himself acknowledged that the fast alternate/sweep picking section in The Glass Prison together with the unison in Blind Faith are some of the most challenging things he ever played. And seeing how he is using backing tracks to hide his own playing in the mix, I believe he is not confident he would be able to pull off those things live anymore.
I don't get it. The chorus on bridges in the sky is already so low, that even I hit the notes perfectly, even thou not being a professional singer by any means, specially when it comes about singing higher notes. I just can't reach most of JB's higher notes and screams, but BITS isn't that high at all, so, wtf? I would understand (not say it's ok, but understand) if these were done in parts where he really can't reach at all anymore, surely not here.
In my opinion DT has nothing to prove at this point, they already made history. As far as creativity i can listen without getting totally bored until “A dramatic turn of events” after this album there is no more new elements. Same riffs, same ideas etc
I enjoyed the songwriting on the self-titled album, but the production was horrible. One of the worst sounding snare drums in recent memory.
for James labrie: i understand, he's old and in the past he suffered from a very bad vocali chord injury without the right recovery. he's 60 now so if he decide to Just sing an octave lower on the pre recorded track i'm ok with that and i prefer this than listening to actual and real garbage. you can Say that it's inaudibile but that's not the band members fault.
for jp it's way easier: he Always double track everything he plays in the records so to male the sound of the Guitar sounds fuller he, in some parts of solos and riffs, has a track of what he's playing which Is barely audible and you can even hear that sometimes the playing Is not perfect so
Implying that LaBrie's performances aren't "actual and real garbage?" Why so many excuses? Why is nothing ever LaBrie's fault, and why should we continue to tolerate him despite gross incompetence?
The comment section here proves the stereotype regarding DT fans.
Which is what?
You can be upset that they flub or get lazy, but they're still performing despite being caught up in their moment and forgetting about the track(s) playing. You can still hear them do their thing, though. You're acknowledging the use of tracks for doubling/harmony, yet I'm seeing where you're livid in the comments and seem to be in disbelief that instruments need to take advantage of that, too. There are so very many layers/takes used to make music sound the way it does, I'm sure you're aware. It's a bummer you seem so upset about it, I guess it's from all the comments and people probably getting angry with you. They suck for that, sorry if that's the case. Your point is certainly contentious, but that doesn't mean others should be crude in responding to it.
I couldn't pay attention to the video coz I'm laughing at that clever Lost Not Forgotten/Home/Rite of Passage mashup😂
That mashup was one of many I made between 2015 and 2017 that was intended to be "cool" rather than "funny." But I'm glad you liked it. I'll post the whole thing soon.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 sometimes there are cool things that are so funny not necessarily because they're hilarious but due to how they're so cleverly made like the "Rage Against Vanessa Carlton" mashup although that one is also hilarious. Congrats on getting an F-bomb! That means he really was watching all that you've posted LOL!
Wow man, Petrucci using pre-record tracks for his solos is completely disappointing, I never thought he would be able to hit Jame's level of dishonesty. Even thought JP was never a good leader since MP left I thought that he still remained an incredibile guitarist and performer but your video just showed how much we still don't know about this band
@@faberbootlegs he still was playing it for real though, I don't get what the issue of having the backing track is, if you are still playing the same thing on top.
I bet you're happy that Portnoy is back.
Not at all. What does it matter when the vocalist hasn't been replaced?
I do agree with all the points you mentioned. I personally believe the best live performances are the ones that are purely played by the performers, instead of the ones where they use a backing track. However, i just wanna ask, 0:35 i kinda dig the song. Can someone tell me it's name?
It’s a mashup between “Home” and “Lost Not Forgotten”. Later in the song it switches to a mashup of the first song and “A Rite of Passage” and maybe another track.
@@nicoloenricorimoldi7425 thanks!
@@rajamaniayyer1678 It got uploaded to TH-cam: th-cam.com/video/I-hTByswpRs/w-d-xo.html
Ive recently come back to listening to DT since Portnoys return was announced and two things havn't changed. La Brie is still awful and Raven is still taking none of his shit
I will be seeing John Petrucci in person in August and I expect to have some face time with the man. I'll ask him about that note and will let you know what he says. It certainly looks weird...
There's a whole long list of things he needs to be asked about.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 Such as?
Scenes from a memory was good.. and that's it.
Ppl really make too much of those instrument flexers
I just wonder how much is hidden from us. The next subject to doubt is Jordan, and if Petrucci plays to playbacks, I wonder if Jordan does. Sadly, they're now more busy virtue signalling and making up lame excuses for Labrie's lip sync. I sincerely hoped they'd improve this tour, after the 2 year COVID break, after lowering Labrie's vocal parts on the new album, but instead this tour completely ruined the image of DT for me.
P.S. Those remixes are precious. You might need to upload them.
I am planning a channel soon for bringing back all of my remixes. If I have time, I'll bring back more bootlegs as well.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 ❤
Wait, is it only this song? I don't get it. That part isn't challenging, it's not hard. He could easily do it and suck like, you know, most of the shows he does, but why using playbacks then? I'm absolutely fine with what Petrucci does. I've always assumed he had some kind of backing being a single guitar.
There is no reason to be fine with what Petrucci is doing. It is 100% unacceptable lying to the audience.
@@theravenskillrebelmilitia139 just because you've not noticed it in the last 15 years doesn't suddenly make it lying 😂
they have ALWAYS had tracks in their shows. you do remixes of their songs - you know how much stuff is in the album mixes. you never once realised a bunch of that stuff was in the live shows too? rhythm guitar, guitar harmonies, extra orchestration and backing vocals/vocal harmonies have ALWAYS been there in the live show. that's why (both) Mike's play(ed) to a click in all the shows
it's pretty clear at this point that you're just hate watching DT or trying to rile up fans or whatever your issue is. just chill out 😂
go form a cover band with no backing tracks or something
@@mattyguitar22 I saw Dream Theater twice with Portnoy. Rhythm guitar under solos and other additional guitar were clearly played on keys by Jordan Rudess.
@@mattyguitar22 I'm just seeing your comment now, and can say with absolute certainty that you don't know what you're talking about. In terms of having a rhythm guitar part or guitar harmony playback being used at the same Petrucci was actually playing on stage, there is no evidence of that being the case until just recently with the View From The Top Of The Toilet Bowl and Terminal Dishonesty tours. In terms of backing vocals, Petrucci and Portnoy were notorious for being poor backing vocalists, but at least that tells us they were doing it for real.
On particular occasions, they used playbacks for the intros of songs like Pull Me Under, Metropolis, A Change Of Seasons, As I Am, and The Count Of Tuscany. As for why they did that, I'm guessing something about the way those went down tonally in the studio was too hard to replicate live. But that's entirely different from what you're claiming. After MP quitting, they started using playbacks for parts that could easily be executed live, and parts for which they did not use playbacks in the past. Step in the wrong direction.
Portnoy has also stated on his website, in his FAQ section, that he would never play with a live click track. I believe him, because he has a much better track record of telling the truth than LaBrie, Petrucci, or Rudess.
NO WONDER PORTNOY SO TOXiC THESE DAYS JAJAJAJAJA
You’re breaking my heart man, fuck…..
As someone who has just left my band of five years... Yes, LaBrie is not doing great on stage, but fuck me leaving is hard and I can't imagine after 30+ years. You're asking him to cut off his arms, asking the other guys to kick out a brother. When I was facing tendonitis issues the band was discussing any options to keep me around including backing tracks for bass. I left for other reasons in the end but it was the hardest thing I had to do - and that's like I said, 5 years, not 30+ or however many it's been for DT. Maybe if people weren't so harsh they could have been more transparent about how they orchestrate live shows, but it's been years of criticism. Yes I agree he's a pants singer but he's also a human with feelings. It's not as easy as "get a new singer" unless you're a sociopath with no sentimentality or emotional connection.
I don't get why LaBrie defenders always harp on his length of time in the band as some kind of get-out-of-jail free card. Geoff Tate got kicked out of Queensryche after about 30 years when he, too, became an embarrassing liability, and guess what? The band got BETTER as a result. They need to have objectivity about the job LaBrie is doing, and not just give him special treatment because he's "family" to them. On that note, we don't know how Petrucci, Myung, and Rudess really feel about James. It could be that they resent his vocals, but are contractually powerless to get rid of him.
I think that at 1:48 is Rudess keys parts
Lots of people have said that, but as of yet, there's no evidence for it.
Still can't believe this guys won a Grammy. Of all the good albums that came last year, they picked a DT album....... *Sigh*
They won a Grammy way past their prime. There's so much more material between 1992-2011 that's eminently qualified for a Grammy.
And JP's speech is just...
Super cringe
What is this version of Home?
Something I made back in 2016 or 2017 that is a mashup of Home, Lost Not Forgotten, A Rite Of Passage, and LaBrie's solo song, I Got You. The whole thing will be back on TH-cam before long, unless Dream Theater starts targeting me with DMCAs.