I’ve actually read that paper before and it was very fascinating and insightful to read. Nice video Doc. The cats were the most interesting as they’re my personal favorites and yet they seemed to be something of the Jack of all trades more or less.
very interesting. i watched a vid about the european weasel yesterday. apparently has an extremely high bite force due to two things. the shortness of its jaw and length of its skull, which gives both good leverage and a lot of muscle attachment area. these small predators can kill some relatively massive prey though, like rabbits so it makes sense they need a very hard bite.
So the historical reports that suggested that thylacines broke the skull of dogs with their bites might have very well been true after all! Also, I am curious as to your thoughts on studies that apparently claim that the thylacine was a "weak biter"?
Thank you Steve! Interesting analysis as always. From your analysis, it seems, that the marsupials were kind off catching extremes on both sides of the spectrum: they bested as the hardest biter superpredators, and also as the most extreme sabertoothed superpredators with the weakest bites. Do you have plans to explore the Thylacosmilus, weirdest of the weird, with even stranger hypotheses on it's behavior (I mean Janis paper on it's use of the tongue in feeding)?
Ha! I already have responded in a recent book chapter to Christine's interpretation. It may come as no surprise that I disagree. I can send it to you if you wish. But yes I will definitely be doing an episode on Thylacosmilus! I wrote a paper on this awesome beast a few years back. It ain't no scavenger!
Seeing the trend of marsupials having a stronger bite force than placentals i can only imagine how strong was the bite of Proborhyaena probably not as hard as thylacoleo but judging by the size estimations it probably could do some serious damage
@@jadilzoca4971 it would be really interesting to do the numbers on that! And wouldn't be too hard. Pound for pound the marsupial lion would definitely win out. But in absolute terms I think it might be close.
professional and scientific as always, i really hate the “megalodon is still alive!(?)” youtube channels, and yours is exactly the contrast that ive been looking for. cant skip a video for the last few days!
Can you do it with Short faced bears and Dinocrokuta. Especially dinocrokuta who had a monster skull. And maybe if its possible, can you do it for Hyenadents like megistotherium
Whats up with the jaws of the thylacine? As the thylacine has a high BTQ, but still it has been concluded by some studies (and seemingly by ones you have worked on) that the thylacine was incapable of handling large prey, due to stresses on the skull. So, my question is how these features can coexist on the same animal, and what it means for its diet.
@@NatureEnjoyer523 yeah the thylacine is a curious one. It does have a high bfq. But not for a marsupial carnivore. It's also unusual in being a large hyper carnivore that appears to have specialised in small to medium sized prey. This may have made it particularly vulnerable to extinction.
@@NatureEnjoyer523 pretty hard to be exact here. But it's unlikely that they regularly took prey larger than themselves. And the largest males were probably 30 to 35 kilo, females considerably smaller. On the mainland there was a big variation in size across the continent. Those in western Australia were much smaller.
@@RealPaleontology Huh, interesting. I think its also worthy of note that records from the time said they were monogamous and when found a mate, would hunt and raise the young together.
It would've been amazing throwing other bears into the mix, polar bears had low bfq and overall weak bite compared to brown bears due to their diet from what understand eating seals and biting through fatty blubber isn't exactly tough, unlike brown bears that consume lots of roots and carrion, with interspecies fighting giving them formidable bites. Pandas surprisingly like you said had extremely high bfq, making the extinct giant panda having a nightmarish bite, short faced bear had overall strongest bite force of any mammalian carnivore if I remember correctly. Also, Tigers I'm curious about, I suppose they're pretty close to Lions, maybe one species edging over the other slightly I'd say
Hi, I know this with respect to the polar bear in its blood ways. In fact I was the one who made the argument in another paper on a giant short faced African bear. I send you a copy of the paper if you like. To be honest there's not much difference between brown bears and polar bears, but yet the panda bear both like hell........... we did calculate bfq's a wide range of bears. It's a that paper two if you want. Cheers, Steve
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Happy birthday for tomorrow steve!
Hey thanks for that
I’ve actually read that paper before and it was very fascinating and insightful to read. Nice video Doc.
The cats were the most interesting as they’re my personal favorites and yet they seemed to be something of the Jack of all trades more or less.
Hey thanks!
On point as always. Well done
Thank you! Cheers!
I love this!
Hey thanks heaps!
I'd love to read the paper myself! Nice video Doc.
Thanks, here's the link. Let me know if it doesn't work I can always email it to you. royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2004.2986
Great video Steve, very easy to listen to and super informative, happy birthday aswell!!
A thanks for that Bonnie, you have a great day too!
Bite Club remains one of the most relevant and cited papers written in the field of feeding biomechanics. Bravo Professor Wroe 💀🤓
Aw shucks, thanks Dr Rex..... But what can I say, it is a pretty highly cited bit of work!
I'd love to see the results for the 150 species! Also the table is covered up by the end cards.
@@surgeonsergio6839 no worries I'll need an email address. I'll see if I can figure a way to sort that table at the end!
Great show! Very interesting about the marsupials!
@@ericdubert5983 thank you very much. If I think I might do the 'marsupial’ sabertooth next,
very interesting. i watched a vid about the european weasel yesterday. apparently has an extremely high bite force due to two things. the shortness of its jaw and length of its skull, which gives both good leverage and a lot of muscle attachment area. these small predators can kill some relatively massive prey though, like rabbits so it makes sense they need a very hard bite.
@@andy-the-gardener yes that's basically what it comes down to, muscle and leverage.
I can confirm that the European weasel has a bite force quotient of 154, which is high indeed!
So the historical reports that suggested that thylacines broke the skull of dogs with their bites might have very well been true after all!
Also, I am curious as to your thoughts on studies that apparently claim that the thylacine was a "weak biter"?
@@eliletts8149 it certainly had the Bike force to do the job!
Thank you Steve! Interesting analysis as always. From your analysis, it seems, that the marsupials were kind off catching extremes on both sides of the spectrum: they bested as the hardest biter superpredators, and also as the most extreme sabertoothed superpredators with the weakest bites. Do you have plans to explore the Thylacosmilus, weirdest of the weird, with even stranger hypotheses on it's behavior (I mean Janis paper on it's use of the tongue in feeding)?
Ha! I already have responded in a recent book chapter to Christine's interpretation. It may come as no surprise that I disagree. I can send it to you if you wish. But yes I will definitely be doing an episode on Thylacosmilus! I wrote a paper on this awesome beast a few years back. It ain't no scavenger!
@@RealPaleontology I wish to see also a video about Thylacosmilus (and maybe about its closest relatives)! Great work.
@@julianbayona3866 you're you're in luck. Thylacosmilus is coming up shortly.
Seeing the trend of marsupials having a stronger bite force than placentals i can only imagine how strong was the bite of Proborhyaena probably not as hard as thylacoleo but judging by the size estimations it probably could do some serious damage
@@jadilzoca4971 it would be really interesting to do the numbers on that! And wouldn't be too hard. Pound for pound the marsupial lion would definitely win out. But in absolute terms I think it might be close.
not sure how i enede up here but now i know about biteforces in animals
Great, I guess the experience could not have been too bad, we would have watched it!
professional and scientific as always, i really hate the “megalodon is still alive!(?)” youtube channels, and yours is exactly the contrast that ive been looking for. cant skip a video for the last few days!
Very pleased to be of service! I'll keep them coming
Can you do it with Short faced bears and Dinocrokuta. Especially dinocrokuta who had a monster skull. And maybe if its possible, can you do it for Hyenadents like megistotherium
@@timexyemerald6290 yes I do intend to do each of these taxa, although it may take a while to get to them all
Whats up with the jaws of the thylacine? As the thylacine has a high BTQ, but still it has been concluded by some studies (and seemingly by ones you have worked on) that the thylacine was incapable of handling large prey, due to stresses on the skull. So, my question is how these features can coexist on the same animal, and what it means for its diet.
@@NatureEnjoyer523 yeah the thylacine is a curious one. It does have a high bfq. But not for a marsupial carnivore. It's also unusual in being a large hyper carnivore that appears to have specialised in small to medium sized prey. This may have made it particularly vulnerable to extinction.
@@RealPaleontology How big are we exactly talking?
@@NatureEnjoyer523 pretty hard to be exact here. But it's unlikely that they regularly took prey larger than themselves. And the largest males were probably 30 to 35 kilo, females considerably smaller. On the mainland there was a big variation in size across the continent. Those in western Australia were much smaller.
@@RealPaleontology Huh, interesting. I think its also worthy of note that records from the time said they were monogamous and when found a mate, would hunt and raise the young together.
Didn't the thylacine have a relatively weak bite force that made it unable to kill large prey??
Funnily enough it had a pretty powerful bite but it was a very specialized animal
@@RealPaleontology How exactly dose that work?? And what about the accounts of it hunting sheep and kangaroos??
It would've been amazing throwing other bears into the mix, polar bears had low bfq and overall weak bite compared to brown bears due to their diet from what understand eating seals and biting through fatty blubber isn't exactly tough, unlike brown bears that consume lots of roots and carrion, with interspecies fighting giving them formidable bites. Pandas surprisingly like you said had extremely high bfq, making the extinct giant panda having a nightmarish bite, short faced bear had overall strongest bite force of any mammalian carnivore if I remember correctly. Also, Tigers I'm curious about, I suppose they're pretty close to Lions, maybe one species edging over the other slightly I'd say
Hi, I know this with respect to the polar bear in its blood ways. In fact I was the one who made the argument in another paper on a giant short faced African bear. I send you a copy of the paper if you like. To be honest there's not much difference between brown bears and polar bears, but yet the panda bear both like hell........... we did calculate bfq's a wide range of bears. It's a that paper two if you want. Cheers, Steve
And yeah, lions and tigers are basically the same in terms of anatomy. It's just that they have very different coats!
@@RealPaleontology I'd love to read the paper 🙌🙌
crocs
Crocs are great, I will get to them!