What I just learned about MEDIEVAL Italian ROUND SHIELDS (rotella)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- I just learned something new about medieval and renaissance Italian round shields (rotella), which I hadn't really realized before. Special thanks to Augusto Boer Bront (Pinterest www.pinterest.... ), also with props to Julian Matthias Ronneberger and William Baskerville ( / baskerville-shields-10... )
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Another thing to note: the earliest reference I have found for a medieval Italian "rotella" specifically, is from a rule about Signiori Di Nocte's companions in Candia, from 1290-something, which mentions among other things that these lightly armed policemen, must carry a "rodela". They start to show up in Italian art from the start of the 14th century. Nice little things, more "buckler" sized than later ones. I have made one and it's quite charming to use.
In Germany towns and sometimes also large villages have a , Kommunaler Ordnungsdienst' , a kind of communal auxillary police. For the members of those ,auxillary police' often the no more official term ,Büttel' is still used by citizens. I have heared that in Italy similar comunal auxillary police exists, and also there the citizens often use no more official ,vigili'. Is this true?
That's my profile pic
@@brittakriep2938 yeah we have 5 kinds of police in italy: military police (carabinieri), regular cops, finance and drugs police (finanza), rangers (forestali) and local police, also informally called with the quite old fashioned name "vigili". the word vigile comes directly from latin vigil-vigilis that means awake or attentitve. a town watch basically. nowadays they just check the traffic and give you fees. we also call the fire guards "vigili del fuoco" coz they look for fires. very simple.
Made of wood or metal?
@@jus_sanguinis they wereare probably just wood and fabric or leather.
The art on those shields is beautiful.
And a good reminder that historical battles were a riot of colors and military uniforms were not consistent within the same force if one or both sides even had uniforms..
@@edcrichton9457 Definitely, but I remember a historians' debate on Twitter where one noted even the period sources can be unreliable, because ancient and medieval leaders also understood the value of propaganda. So you'll find a lot of contemporary artwork showing dozens and dozens of men all wearing the lord's colours, even though it probably wasn't actually like that.
Rotellas were very popular in Spain too (called rodelas, and "rodeleros" armed with sword and shield being one of the early troop types that formed the Tercios). The word appears in Spanish texts as early as 1455.
spanish domination in most of the italian states lasted from 1559 to 1713, officially. i bet we share something :P
@@hic_tus Yep, my guess would be that the rotella/rodela gained more popularity in Spain with the Italian Wars starting in the 1490s. Before that the light shield of choice was the adarga, an oval or heart-shaped shield of Berber origin, originally made of hardened leather.
@@HoJu1989 southern europe also had a huge influence from middle east and the islamic world, even though in modern days we tend to skip that part because later historical reasons.. ehm... sometimes it sounds like italy was an uninterrupted heritage of the romans, but as a country it exists only since 1861. a lot of people came and left before that time.
that's another reason why we find variations in the souces, before the fascism, that imposed a common language, we all spoke different dialects (and still do in a way lol).
'A bunch of Bolognaise sources' - that made my night.
I wasn't familiar with late medieval shields at all, so simply learning about rotella today was a bonus.
It's also much easier to hold something in your shield hand with a flat shield than with a domed shield. It also makes it easier to use your left hand for other things without having to put your shield down.
Another minor point in favor of flat shields is that they require slightly less material, and consequently weight, to achieve the same silhouette when presented flat, though they probably wouldn't be used like that most of the time.
That’s really not a minor advantage, I think. Shields were presented flat or close to it in various historical contexts - especially ones involving missile combat - minimising weight is very valuable, and you don’t at all need to present a shield flat for it having a greater radius and coverage to be beneficial. Otherwise everyone might as well have just used tiny bucklers side-on throughout history.
So far as I’ve seen, flat shields consistently turn up wherever close combat is of a lower priority; shield curvature consistently indicates an expectation for things to come to hand-to-hand more often, where the benefits of shield curvature could outweigh the added weight.
We used to have a saying in my industry - "curves cost"
In today's Italy "Rotella" is a "Pizza cutter wheel."
From the battlefield to the table top.
along with the Bolognaise sources....
And what is a round tabletop, but a shield on legs!
Swords into plowshares and all that
To the tabletop in a different way in the US; rotelle are wheel-shaped pasta
Rondache is just French for Rotella to my knowledge. Using French words for military things was of course fashionable for a long time
Those larger Italian shields could be referred to as Targone (literally "big targe/target") or Imbracciatura, if you consider Marozzo's large shield to be one of them.
As for the subject at hand, I'm surprised! Some of those surviving flat Rotelle used to be displayed in a museum in my country, so it never really was news to me.
One potential advantage of a flat shield that could be relevant to this is the act of carrying things in your shield hand. I've never tested it, but it's probably easier to carry extra things with a flat shield. If you read Marozzo and Manciolino, both sources describe multiple partisans being thrown in their spear and shield parts, and I know some examples of guys carrying what appear to be partisans, javelins or something of that sort in their shield hand in period artwork.
Yes that sounds correct, though I am not aware of period sources calling them that. I suspect, like 'sidesword', that it is a 20th century museum curator's term.
@@scholagladiatoria awesome content mate
There is also the word "Rondartsche"(in german or dutch influenced countries), which might be a "germanic" bastardization of the original term. Rondartsche is quite a convenient spelling since it comes close to the similar sounding Rundtartsche(targe), meaning round targe or roundshield (Tartsche being a word used for strapped shields, possibly with a cutout serving as a lance-rest). This, as far as I know, only relies on my assumptions though.
@@scholagladiatoria Since I can't link images: You can google image search "san bernardino appare di notte" to see a depiction of what I described. The fellow on the right has what appears to be a flat rotella, a partisan in his right hand (held point-down), and what may be two partisans (or other speary things) in his shield hand. He even has a fancy sidesword to boot!
@@scholagladiatoria According to CNRTL*, the word appeared in the mid-late 16th century because "rondelle" (previous word) was becoming associated with, well, the anus.
*Centre National des Ressources Textuelles et Lexicographiques
That makes sense. I've actually built a few shields and man, getting curves is a real specialist job. Considering that so many men at arms where obligated to pay for their own kit, a flat butt joined plank shield is something that a pretty normal farmer type can make with a bit of attention.
You, sir, have just made my day with this video! Like you, I used to believe that rotellas were domed and made of steel, and never bothered attempting to make one. But now that I've learned they could not only be made of wood, but also flat, that effectively changes everything. That means plywood is back on the menu!
Super interesting topic!
While we could probably discuss quite extensively the pros and cons of curved vs. straight shields and there certainly is a difference... is that difference that significant that we would use a whole different set of techniques? I'd argue not really.^^
Marozzo (1536) and Pietro Monte (1492) are to my knowledge the only authors that discuss the Rotella AND another type of medium or large sized shield. With Marozzo we get his Imbracciatura, which is his specialized version of the elongated strapped shield that you have shown. Pietro Monte has a few interesting types, clearly referring back to antiquity with a Pelta, Scutum and Clypeus. Interestingly Monte defines the Rotella as being made completely out of wood as compared to the Parma, which is made out of leather 😊
I'd like to add in the plus column of a curved or domed shield, the weight distribution is now on your arm and as such it actually feels lighter. Particularly with centre grip shields. I found this out the hard way when I accidentally curved my very heavy Viking era shield away from my handle and it became much more difficult to use.
I think the real crazy part of this was hearing an Englishman with even a hint of connection to academia admitting he's not an expert. You're an expert at informing though, Matt, and we love you for it!
I've got a few images of flat rotellas. They're all painted with interesting designs which is the standard inexpensive way to decorate any object (I've adapted some of those designs to for use on my own bucklers). A really talented artist can quickly turn a boring flat disc into something that looks sharp on parade. My thoughts: cheaper to make and cheaper to replace if it gets wrecked. No everyone can be equipped like Giovanni delle Bande Nere.
Matt, you can make an easy rotella with a snow disc( which are naturally curved)from walmart, some camp foam and pool noodle for the rim. Larpers tend to use this as a basic start to building and creating your own training/starter sword and board gear. And it'd be a safe way for hema practioners to use the concept of a rotella for cheap.
I would point one error you say: battle rotellas were of wood. Not at all. Wooden rotellas were mainly used in 15th century, when steel rotellas were mostly from 16th century. In fact, rotellas were mainly used as "bulletproof shields" in infantry until late 17th century mainly in use by officers, but also were common in the use by soldiers in assaults on fortresses.
About the "ligth pavise"... Well, at least in Spain had a name at the time, and it was called in the primary sources "half pavise" (medio pavés in spanish) and was the "standard" shield of infantry in mediterranean area until the first italian war, when the spanish and italian infantry started to use pikes and steel rotellas instead of more antique weapons (but in spanish militias were still common in the first decade of 16th century).
Great video, as always.
This is the impression I've gotten from 16th-century texts, though I can't find easily find one that explicitly mentions the shields being steel. Some shields were definitely expected to stop certain bullets, like you say. There's that 16th-century Spanish manual that says the rodela alone is ok protection from an arquebus but a musket will blow through both shield & breastplate. A few 16th-century English manuals complain about how heavy targets of proof are & recommend lighter shields made of wood or leather instead, though some of this may primarily be trying to imitate the Romans. (Not that actual Roman shields were at all light, though possibly lighter than thick iron/steel targets of proof.)
@@b.h.abbott-motley2427 But this english teatrises were only "experiments" not something usual.
If you read spanish military teatrises of XVI century, it's easy to know when a shield is of wood and when is from steel, because the wooden ones were called "tablachinas" in spanish. Also there were leather shields, called "adargas" (even there were some steel adargas from late XVII century). The military shields were always metallic, and still there are conserved a lot of "rodelas" for military purposes, all of them metallic (and a lot with bullet impacts).
It's important to say that there were three types of "rodelas": fencing rodelas, that were smaller and weaker, that were made of steel, wood or cork; arquebuse-proof rodelas (called "rodelas fuertes") and musket-proof rodelas (calles "rodelas a prueba de mosquete"), that were a lot heavier and not suited for combat, but for the protection of officers in battle and specially on sieges to make scoutings.
@@juanmolinafernandez3983 Looking at Martín de Eguiluz's manual again, I see that he did use the term "rodela azerada" in the context of kit for an infantry company captain, so that's conclusive evidence for steel shields intended for combat equivalent to the Italian rotella. He's the one who recommended just using a good rodela & skipping the cuirass, because a good rodela will stop an arquebus ball & a musket will blow through both shield & breastplate.
I'm not sure what you mean about the English treatises being only experiments. Some of them were more experimental or theoretical & others were more practical. Sir Roger Williams's 1590 manual was more practical, based on the author's experience in the Low Countries & other places. He took Spanish military practice as his model & described the use of very heavy targets of proof, which few could endure using for even an hour. You could say his desire for lighter targets was experimental.
@@juanmolinafernandez3983 Cork shields??? Interesting, how were they constructed?
@@manchagojohnsonmanchago6367 were usually bucklers with the grap and the center of steel and the rest of the shield of cork. Were used mainly for swashbucklers and criminals. Miguel de Cervantes in their novels usually depicts the criminals with cork bucklers. There were intended to "trap" enemy thrusts in the cork. Some kind of "dirty weapon".
My grandfather who collected arms and armour used to take me to The Wallace Collection to twice a year...We would of been course mix it in wit he the British Museum...So that place has a very special place in my heart 💖
The Tercios used bulletproof versions for breaching in sieges.
Also, in battle it was a simbolic weapon of the rank of captain alongside with the Gineta spear.
And this up to the 17th century.
They can be often seen in spanish nobility full body portraits.
A nice example of one that is clearly intended for battle and not parade (as it is far away in matters of decoration from those parade ones in museums) is the one at the right in the background in one of the portraits of Don Juan de Austria.
In spanish it is spelled Rodela btw
Regarding the bulletproof part always fascinated me, I have seen tests which show it's feasible (especially if you don't mind a heavier shield) but something I've never seen any testing on is if a cheaper metal shield would be penetrated by a shot, could it serve to slow the bullet down enough that your body armor cloth or metal could stop it. In other words, the tests of shields against guns on youtube etc seem to never try putting a plate cuirass behind the shield in additon and I have always been curious
@@spyczech the bulletproof shields were hardened steel.. Not iron..
i was literally going to write this hahaha im spanish and i feel a little bit salty whenever i hear someone talks about italy´s XVI without taking in consideration that by the time most of italy remained under the spanish crown.
Well happy you liked the thread in the group. And nice that my photo from the rotellae in lucerne made it into your video
It sounds like rotella was what italians called any round shield or at least any larger round shield. Which isn't a surprise since they also didn't usually call different types of swords as anything beyond sword.
Like other more knowledgeable comments have said - domed distributes the weight on your arm slightly better, blows glance off it and it would tend to have better structural rigidity.
Interesting vid, thanks very much
It's worth noting that many pre-roman depictions of Italian warriors show them using a domed round shield that's neither an aspis(the same art pieces will show actual aspidae) nor a pelta. It resembles a larger rotella, but still visibly smaller than an aspis.
Given how we don't really have a predecessor of the style I always felt like the Rotella emerged from someone digging up a statue with a aspis and went "Oooh, si, this goes perfect with my all'antica armour!" and made himself a replica.
Given how crazy they were about greek/Roman stuff in the rennisance not the worst theory
I love when historians discover something new from period. It's always like: "Breaking news...about something several centuries old." I wonder why the ones in manuscripts were all depicted as domed. Could have some bearing on the differences in usage between flat ones and domed. Lol or not. Like others are saying might be easier to carry objects in the shield hand, so that suggests it would be used by people more likely to carry additional kit. Interesting stuff.
Historians are just journalists with really generous deadlines.
Maybe people who could afford manuscripts were also the type who could afford more expensive, dome shaped one? It's like a historian 400 years from now checking how common Ferrari cars were using journals targeted at billionaires...
@@JohnDoe-nq4du Haha, nice. I'm gonna have to remember that one.
@@KuK137 Could be. Then the question becomes what are the cost benefits that would make it the tool of the elite. Like the Ferrari is a fast flashy car, not terribly practical but it has it's qualities that justify its cost. I wonder what might make these shields so worth the more expensive process.
I think about that last point all the time. So much of what is preserved is marketed to and by the elite/wealthy, in this age where digital things meant to last forever are vanishing due to no real upkeep. So much of the context of why all this STUFF exists could very easily be lost, and the conclusions that could be drawn from so much of it without that context are both hilarious and horrible.
@@JohnDoe-nq4du Holy shit ive been journalist all along. The 20 year rule for historians is honestly not that long as say covering 9/11 could now be done by either historian or jounalist now
Matt, there is a burning question in my mind that, I think you could answer, or maybe reference in a future video. We know that strapped shields, as opposed to gripped shields, were used mainly for horseback fighting in Europe, but what about strapped shields in parts of the world where there were no horses? Like the Aztecs, who used strapped shields (the spanish called them "rodelas") Do you think it might have to do with an advantage in wrestling? Or perhaps their choice of the dart thrower over the bow and arrow as primary ranged weapon? It would be great if you could cover the topic. Cheers and thanks for your great content!
Regarding the Aztecs and Mesoamericans, in the Lienzo de Tlaxcala there are multiple depictions of archers shooting with their bow while having a shield strapped on their arm. Very interesting stuff
It's a lot easier to make a steel shield domed than a wooden one. Also a domed shield may be less strong due to the grain not being continuous (though they'd likely use curved boards, and/or steam bend them).
"Easier" is relative. In modern terms I can think of four or five ways to mass produce domed shields of wood *or* metal in roughly equal time, but they all use modern mass production machinery. Take it back to Renaissance technology and flat is far more time- and cost-effective for either.
Offhand I can't think of a way to make a domed metal shield by hand other than to bang the dome in with a hammer over a rounded or hollowed mandrel of wood or metal or even a bag of shot or sand. On the other hand the direct ancestor of the English Wheel seems to have been invented in the 16th century (in France!) for making plate armor...
I'd be willing to bet that curved planks was the way they went with wooden shields for exactly the strength reduction reason you mention in re: carving a curve into planks or assembled shields.
Steam bending planks can be done en masse with relatively primitive equipment; gluing and final shaping can also be done en masse sequentially. I'm going to guess that economy of scale would make the total man-hour investment in a single domed wooden shield about equal to that in a domed metal one. Plus, wood will always be less expensive than metal.
The Rotella shield is one of my favorite shields of all.
I have one from Therion Arms ( 18ga, 23",reinforced edges, domed and not bad for $95)
It's just a tad bit heavier than 5lbs.
Bigger than a buckler but lighter than a heater shield.
Combine the Rotella with a plated chest plate, rapier, Morion helmet and you are set to go. At least moderately.
Suppose you can go full Hernán Cortés of Spain and add greaves and arm protection.
Finding out something new...like Xmas morning as a kid...😊
I've been playing around with and interpreting partisan for a couple of years now, and I have a domed rotella (well a steel sled I fashioned into one) and Marozzo's point about using the partisan in 2 hands and the rotella is quite difficult with my rotella. I always thought that if mine wasn't dished as much I could more easily grasp the partisan but perhaps in that instance he meant for you to use a flat rotella.
One of the other posters - @Reto Häner - put up a comment about a painting called "san bernardino appare di notte" in which there's a person with a flat rotella and what looks like two partisans or similar gripped in his shield hand.
@@wolf1066 I'm pretty sure those are just javalins. The hafts look a little thin to be partisani, at least the two in his shield hand. The one in his main hand looks like it could be a partisan or a late oxtongue. In any case it's an awesome source. Thanks!
@@tommyss4l The main credit goes to @Reto Häner - they mentioned it in another comment.
It is an awesome source all right, and you're probably right about the two in his shield hand being javelins.
It does cause me to rethink shields. I've always been partial to boss grip shields but this shows that forearm straps give the advantage of being able to hold something in addition to the shield if needed.
@@wolf1066 i highly prefer strapped shields over boss grip. Once i make a kite shield I'll see if I prefer that to my scutum in door sized shields.
@@tommyss4l Let me know how it turns out, would be interesting to hear.
LARPer here: I made a lot of shields, including trying to make convex/rounded shields. They are indeed a lot harder to make. It would indeed make sense to equip "normal" soldiers with many flat shields compared to round shields, as they are good enough for the job and a lot cheaper. So I think Matt has hit the nail on the head here for ONE reason why there were both flat as well as round rotellas.
Makes me wonder if the shields being round in the treatises are a status thing. While I doubt the cost of a domed shield would be enough to make it something to flaunt, the treatises we're for rich people who would have chosen the more expensive option.
It is interesting to look at the survival of the round shield as a weapon of war into the mid 18th century in Scotland.
Locally called the targe.
Round, most often wood covered with leather, most often worn on the forearm.
Sometimes used in conjunction with a dirk in the left fist - which you couldn't do with a domed shield.
Yes.. Also in Europe binding cutting blades in the edge of the shield was a common technique.. This ant be done with a domed shield.. It will split it
The Rotella is also mentioned in Spanish treatise, specifically Godinho.
Wasn't Godinho technically Portuguese?
@@andrewk.5575 Spain is always hesitant to let it go. But thats still not Italian, which was my point.
I would just add that I have seen many, many steel rotella that seem to have been intended for combat and some wooden ones that were so heavily ornamented that they would best serve as parade shields. Excellent discussion Matt.
Oooh first time I 2atched this video I didn't know Augusto. Now, it came up, and I just watchef the Wallace collection videos yesterday (awesome, by the way).
Astute observation about the role of the speed and the cost of production.
A flat shield is also easier to manipulate other people's shields with and makes the shield hand more available for grabbing things if only a strap runs through the hand.
It also performs better when smashing people in the face with it due to a smaller contact area.
Wow! Okay, I am a sci fi buff. I would like to see your analysis of knife finghting with energy shields as in Dune. If you have covered this in other videos, give me a link. Great material!
@Matt you got a great kinda charisma that is warm and invites the viewer to get ready to learn, have you ever considered doing a educational history kids show? ❤️
From personal experience with the SCA, a slight curve on a shield adds a surprising amount of rigidity for the weight.
A flat shield also lends itself much more towards parrying with the "leading edge", whereas a heavily curved shield would struggle with that. The reasoning being that a flat shield projects further from your hand, giving you a more aggressive edge to work with.
I assume that a curved shield would help with parrying on the "face", but that's not my personal style so I can't speak to it. My shields have always gotten completely torn up along the top right corner far before anything else takes any real wear at all. I'd imagine that for the historical context they would potentially also be far more concerned with projectiles from crossbows and muskets, which could lend itself to a curved shield even if it was less effective for fencing.
So much to learn, so little we know. I am studying the russian and Georgian martial arts as result of following links . Fascinating to read about the styles of Khevsurian bucklers, their warbucklers, self defence bucklers. Defensive and offensive styles for only buckler. Dueling styles as well, up untill recently it seems.
More than moderately interesting I'd say.
Cheap can often be the answer when it comes down to war. A warhammer or varients thereof were amonst the most popular weapons of that period. They were cheap, easy to produce and devastating against flash and bone or plate steel. Simple, cheap, easy to use and effective wins out in this period when troops could be levied. Shields could easily follow the same principle.
I was of he impression that by the 15th and 16th centuries armies were more professional. Especially with mercenary armies in Italy.
I freely admit I could be wrong though
@@readable95 But if you ran a mercenary company do you want to spend the money on troops or yourself?
Who would have thought the singer for tool also possesses a vast amount of historical knowledge.
The shield on the right at minute 3:46 looks like the artifact in Uffizi Gallery, Florence, labelled "Buckler".
Augusto is a treasure!
It would have been very interresting to get some information on the weight of those surviving examples. Anyway, great video, as always!
Love it when you learn something and bring it straight to us. Plus one human racial, collective knowledge
I can’t imagine it was _that_ hard to make a round shield. People used barrels & casks for storage all the time.
An advantage of flat shield could be it should be easier to catch and stop opponent's blows, while a domed shield is more prone to deflect it hence its more difficult to have a safe parry perhaps.
Adding to the growing chorus, the Rodela(Spanish spelling) was the predominant shield in Spain by the end of the Middle Ages. All Spanish speaking students have heard of the shield at least once, since they also used them in large numbers in the American conquest wars. It being flat explains why the Spaniards named rodela the flat, round shields used by Native American soldiers, regardless of the different construction method. They are even mentioned in Age of Empires II, and are available as a unit in Age of Empires III...
Italian Sword and Buckler troops are an underrated troop type, IMHO
I certainly agree that flat shields are probably advantageous mostly from an ease-of-engineering point. However I would add that by virtue of being flat, it also obstructs fewer sightlines. This makes sense through the lens of Japanese feudalism, where we know that fencing masters often had a low social status in the warrior caste, unless they were particularly excellent ones. Let's suppose for a while that a similar dynamic applies to Europe. I think that stands to reason, there are a few famous treatises by a small number of master swordsmen. The rest of them seem to have disappeared from the annals of history. That is to say, they were not much remarked upon by society at large or certainly not by the people writing historically significant documents.
Now back to shields, the advantage of a flat shield might be that it offers better vision. If you've the skill to use it you can exploit the fact that your opponent has a more protective, but less visually useful shield. By standing/maneuvering in the blind spots one with superior skill and vision may well find openings that are unavailable to inferior fencers. This is obviously a very niche application for the period, but I believe useful to consider for HEMA practitioners. After all we try to the best of our abilities to inhabit the place of those masters, with the information available to us.
I'll be glad to hear what others think, please do not hesitate to reply or poke me on my thoughts, I'd be delighted ^^
Never heard about this shield before.
This might be a really daft layman's question, but doesn't the dome shape potentially lead to weapons glancing off towards the body of the one carrying the shield? Or would that only be a problem if you hold the shield wrong so that it doesn't block the line?
It does! If you're not careful (as I wasn't first time fencing with a Rotella) you can accidentally set it up on your side kind of like a ramp up into your face. My opponent let me know I had done this by attacking with a rising cut up into the top quarter of my shielf a couple of time, landing hits.
@@_tonypacheco Ah, thanks! I was just wondering why Matt didn't mention it as a potential advantage of flatter shields that they are maybe a bit more...beginner-friendly? Also, ow.
One of the attractions of a leather facing is that it can kind of "catch" a sharp point or edge, preventing this glancing problem.
@@DouglasBriton the funny thing is you actually want glancing blows usually. When used correctly you don't create openings to your body or face, and the glancing blows leave you opponent more exposed after an attack. That's because if their blow ends dead on your shield then their sword is still between you and them, and so they're more likely to be able to deal with your follow up attack. But if their blow glances off the shield and off-line then it takes a larger motion for them to come back to the line and defend. There's also the fact that any blow that stops dead on your shield transfers all of its energy into your arm and that can suck.
Thak Ironworks has done a great video on building a Greek Shield. Very complicated building a domed shield.
T'challa (pointing at Steve Rogers): "Someone get this man a rotella!"
Thank you..
I wonder if you would consider doing a video on the (probably other places too) Irish wicker shield. I think at least, that it's a fascinating creation and somewhat underated.
1:30 I heard it as "A bunch of bolognese sauces" 😆
If I were to make my own Rotella I would rivet stainless steel pizza trays together with a very small space in-between each layer and use bluejean cloth that has been sewn together with 38 layers in a quilted pattern on the inside and then bolt on some belts for the straps.
Rotella is nothing else but the medieval Byzantine round shield. In 7:29, the bottom right shield has Byzantine style letters on it.
@1:22; I've never come across rotellas in my bolognese sauce! It must have been tangled amongst the pasta...
If you want to make a curved Shield my opinion is grab a wagon wheel of the appropriate size and attach it to the inside of your water barrel lid after removing the spokes and the heavy steel Tire.
It may still be only a wheel but it wheel work
I would think that if they were made out of metal making them domed would have given them structural integrity so they could have been made thinner and not over weight.
How many comments do you get abour being longwinded? I sure get a my share on my videos. The thing is all the extra information is good stuff, at least in my view it is. You could have easily done a SHORT video - less than a minute and presented the main point, but I like to hear all the extra little bits of info that give the point greater context and fill in the picture much more.
Macbane and others have little bits on the targe too.
Next we will find out targes could be domed! Heh
Rondache (and also roundel, as sometimes also called) are just old variants of rotella. Rondache straight from French, it seems (rondache or rouelle), essentially a nounified form of "round" + a dimminutive suffix on both cases (-el is English, either a cognate of the same -ella in rotella or -ella mangled, maybe sorta both, and -ache is a French diminutive (or at least used to be, dunno how it is now exactly) of Germanic origins, but mangled (typical French). Technically you have at least two cognates in English today, the legacy -ock you find in old diminutive forms that just lost the meaning or became frozen (hillock, a small hill, and bollock i.e. small ball, oddly reminiscent of the etymology of "testicle" as Roman slang for "small ball[not ball in the general sense, just the body part]", but I digress), and -kin which lost the diminutive sense entirely (but I hear some people, specially with children, use "-kins" as a diminutive, but I have no idea). Might be related to -ish ultimately, but I got tired of the rabbit hole.
Domed shields are probably more likely to deflect arrows into your face or the guy next to you than a flat shield might.
Human creativity with a weapon that was around in medieval times should definitely apply in hema. If you can figure out how to do something with a weapon so could a warior who spent their lives wiht that weapon. Just because there is no record of it doesn't mean it wasn't possible or done less popularly
This saved me money.
I would have thought the dome would have been an evolution of a flat round shield
could you please talk about the difference between using a shield strapped to your arm and using a center-grip shield？ including the techniques
Pls do a video on the Ghiavarina! There's pretty much no good content on this weapon on youtube unfortunately
Because the treatises often have illustrations along with them, are there any which actually show the flat rotella? Could it be that they were written specifically for the domed rotella or do you think it could just be a stylistic choice and the treatises were written for more general use?
I'm curious why shields were more prominent in southern Europe (Spain, Italy) latter in time. Maybe a combination of hotter climate and mountainous terrain?
I would start with the question if your presumption is correct. What do you mean with more prominent? And is that a reflection of reality.
From what I can tell, the last group of people to use shields in battles between armies were the Jacobite armies in the mid 18th century.
In Scotland.
Which, though it has mountains, is not hot.
Good video
Yes, it is one of those things that once know, seems obvious, but as you say, most of the easily accessible evidence is for domes. And subconsciously, renaissance Italy and domes just go together.
The Rotella is for sure one of my favorite. Spell check even agrees, as if I spell it without capitalizing the R it gives me the red underline of incorrect spelling for not giving it the proper deserved respect!
I don't ask to many questions because your videos usually answer my questions without having to ask however why are knights shields called Heaters?
I've done a little bit of rotella fencing (with polearms like partisan), interpreting Marozzo if I recall correctly. Our rotellas were pretty flat indeed! According to what I've learned, rotellas were used more for self-defence, peasant militia and stuff like that. Cheap yet effective stuff to give to poorly trained folk in hope to repel an invasion of your town, while professional soldiers and armies were equipped with other shields like pavese.
In combat situations, I loved the use of the rotella as an offensive weapon. With how well it's fixated on your forearm and how flexible and small enough it is to move around with ease, jabbing someone with its edge could surely be devastating. Sources had a lot to do with using the rotella offensively, too. And I think it's another advantage of a flat shield! Dome shields offer more defence, but they must be less useful on the offence, right?
Great material anyway, keep it up :)
What, Today You Found Out?? Are you Simon Wistler?
That is interesting. I can't admit to having thought about it.
May I humbly direct your attention to the Yorkshire-buckler? It was funnel shaped.
About domed shields, I saw that the same thing applies to the Greek hoplon.
The Rotella appears to be the inspiration for the Captain America shield. Were there all metal Rotella shields? I wonder if you can design a Rotella to be thrown? The shape is similar enough to a frisbee that you might get some of the same aerodynamic effect. Do you have any thoughts?
Since Medieval Genie recently talked about that, are you interested in learning about another peculiar italian shield,the Targone?
Link, please?
@@nevisysbryd7450 th-cam.com/video/P_qLhvu9gM0/w-d-xo.html
Rondas is a dutch word. Dutch beeing a sister language to german it maybe the case that the same word is used in german. The dutch translation of the bible( ''statenvertaling'' 1618-1637) for example uses the word rondas to refer to some shields in some passages.
The unintended consequence of language:
1:35 “... a bunch of Bolognese Sauces, and other Italian sauces as well...”
Interestingly, both source and sauce have Latin roots.
Seriously now, I really appreciate the work that goes into this channel, such good content
So basically some were kind of Targe Shield. While some were a kind of convex.
If there are any treatises on how to use Targe then that might help on flat Rotellas
If your shield is probably going to get ruined in the battle anyway, I can understand why someone might prefer going the cheaper option.
From the pit of my ignorance, every time I heard rotella I though of a prevalently flat implement, just because rotella is the Italian word for small wheel or gear.
Do you not consider the buckler shown in I.33 to be a main stream shield? it's bossed gripped and rather integral to the entire style show in that source.
Much of the time, I would say there's sufficient room to argue for a buckler not qualifying as a 'shield' in the same sense as you define a larger rotella or targa or Marozzo's imbracciatura. It still defends and offends with hand protection and is shaped much the same way, from the same materials, yes-however, the gross-motor mechanics diverge quite a bit because of the size. Being so small means that the buckler is rightfully convenient as a civilian, and simultaneously impractical for defence against ranged weapons on a battlefield.
A similar variability in definition occurs at the other end of physical dimensions, when handling a 'true' greatsword or montante or zweihander. We clearly refer to them as swords, but you do not wield one in the same way as a messer or even a larger longsword, because [as someone who has trained with them] it feels more like a partnered dance with the weapon than it does manipulating an extension of the self. I would compare greatsword to other polearms like Meyer's halberd or to English quarterstaff more than I would draw parallels with, say, Fiore's longsword. Yet it remains a sword. We call it a sword in shape and materials and the generalisation of how it offends and defends.
See the reasoning?
I.33 is fabulous, but the buckler handles *very* differently in its system than a rotella does. I've played around a couple of times with spear and rotella, so I've got some first-hand familiarity. 'Mainstream' may not be the most apt word, but I can see where Matt was coming from on this one.
Spanish rodela, used by the tercios was also (almost) flat and metallic.
There's also the convex Buckler. In my opinion convex Buckler's are as heavy as a regular shield so you might as well wear a regular shield. Ergo my opinion used to be given a choice between a target and a Buckler. My opinion would be I will give you English your downfall. And I found out a nut bowl with a cracker stand could also be considered a buck. Not to mention many men simply takes up the rain barrel lid. And that's where Captain America got the idea of the trash can lid. For convex Shields I still think I would go with the trash can lid before I would go with a convex wooden Buckler. But if you want to call my 30-gallon water barrel lid a Buckler by all means I'll fight with a buckler but I really prefer a target
It's sitting on a turtle and the turtle moves !
I believe a flat shield could be made lighter, and thus was faster to maneuver in defense. Fighting a heavy swordsman the weight might not be a disadvantage, but an opponent with a light sword might have a speed advantage against a heavier shield...
4:06 Why did knights in start with saving armour on the legs, first? Aren't the legs one of the most exposed bodyparts to footsoldiers if you are on horseback?