The Complete AGE ABILITIES Tier List in Eu4
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- Today we are doing the Age Abilities in Eu4, and yeah way too many of these are way too good.
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EDIT: So Merc Discipline is actually fixed, following testing, please ignore me saying earlier I tested it and it wasn't, my test was wrong, merc discipline works now.
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remain calm
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(at least hopefully he'll be 1000 dolar richer)
There is much to be done
ko-fi.com/summary/36ee6e37-5eef-4d72-bb62-aa48bf4221a8 wait its even mentioned in the copy-paste now
Lemoncake has 13.9 thousand subscribers, so if everyone would pay 7 cents it would be enough.
@@BotPlays2222 please don't crowd fund my crowdfunding :P
Let me guess: ship trade propagation S tier
Is me disliking trade ships becoming a new meme
@@LemonCake101I hope so lol
@@LemonCake101 Is conquering the world always the right move to you xd
i prefer playing tallish and i still barely use light ships, its just way easier to just conquer a couple trade centers, trade company them and maybe build a marketplace and own like 70% or more of the trade power. And even when i cant do that theres a so much more important stuff i could be doing with my money than building half my naval force limit’s worth of light ships only to get like 10% extra trade power on a good day. The only time i use lightships is if i happen to capture them in a war
Trade ships for me feel like that thing that can be quite helpfull early game to get more trade power in your node, like building a lot of trade ships in the english channel as a dutch minor so you can pass the english without having to conquer too much, but late game if I don't already have a lot of them, I usually don't bother building more
Supposedly, mercenary discipline was fixed in 1.36 to now also affect tactics (at least according to the wiki).
I remember hearing about this. I don'tknow if it has been properly tested to see if it is true.
It is@@noxfelis5333
@@noxfelis5333 i tested it works
So I know a couple peeps now said it was fixed, but I tested in 1.37 and it still does not apply tactics bonuses, they just claimed it, meaning its glorified Inf CA/Cav CA etc.
When youreally think about it, yeah, there's a large amount of good abilities on the table here. I think "resistance to reformation" is the only one I've not used.
Its definitely a very... stacked roster for sure.
I used it once in a Bavaria game when i wanted to stay Catholic and i shit you not my country on the religion mapmode looked like a protestant island in a Catholic sea. Hated that bonus/edict since that game
@@TheMightofDabBuuuuut you did stop the spread to your neughbour provinces
Used it during my Frankfurt to the Andes run and it worked like a charm. While the state maintenence put strain on my economy, it would've been much worse had my provinces not been catholic.
Tbh the only country it probably has significant use on is like someone who cares about other nations not becoming Protestant more than just preventing the reformation which is like not really the HRE Emperor because minus the niche case where you can't right away you should just delete key the reformation, and even then it's just straight up too slow to unlock for the emperor to make use of it. I think the only instance that could be consistent is like Anglican GB with the Anglican center of reformation for free conversions but with some MP buddies who don't want that center converting all their land. That could maybe also work with like Reformed France, lots of provinces for the center to chip away at and thus a lot of time to slow the reformation. Maybe it could help with religious wars too by keeping people from joining your true faith for more cbs on heretics and cheaper provinces from the other age ability, plus religious/humanist would both help you get it faster and help you deal with the wonky religious state you'd have for a while. Honestly the best single nation for it might be singleplayer Byzantium assuming the centers and and do target you, mostly since you either would have stopped the Reformation before it started by mending the schism or are preparing to mend the schism and want to keep things Catholic while not usually being in a position to kill the centers.
However outside of Europe and mostly Catholic Europe it's completely useless unless it somehow has an effect to reduce event based conversions to. If it does limit events for conversions then it might actually be useful for Confucion nations on specific provinces with religion specific monuments/modifiers since you can't convert harmonized religions but can be cucked by them(would have been more important when you couldn't culture convert in harmonized religions). But since that's probably not the case besides... actually trade nodes with religious propogation might count so if it does then it would be helpful there, just hard useless otherwise besides larp.
TL;DR, it's a bonus that benefits Catholicism as a whole rather than you specifically so there's maybe ways to use that but besides niche scenarios why bother.
(Also it might be useful for juggling religious zeal if the centers really love your country but that's really niche and limited compared to just killing the protestants with the province war score cost)
I really don't know how they thought giving persia 20% dev cost was even remotely balanced
So (zoro) persia gets 5 from ideas, 5 from asha monarchy government reform, 10% from the government interaction, then 10% from the grand vizier advisor, then 20% from the age ability
for pure dev cost, 50% from doing pretty much nothing is absurd
Plus the very good dev reduction on mountain (and I think hills, not sure) from the mission tree and the one from Infrastructure ideas got me most provinces down to 3~5 dev cost in my latest Eranshar run. Hitting a thousand income and almost a million manpower in the early 1600 was definitely something I wasn't fully prepared to see considering I'm not usually a min-maxer
they should make persia way harder to conquer and give ottomans or russia this buff just for the lulz
@@gabrieldossantos1116 yep, you also get a comical amount of manpowe modifiers from estate & missions
They knew it wasn't balanced, the thing is they do not care anymore and just want to sell the dlcs
Yup, perfectly balanced, trust.
"Transfer subject" is S-tier because you can make claim chains all across the map. The strategic flexibility this gives you is phenomenal.
It also halves aggressive expansion, which is INSANE early game Europe when development is relatively low.
@@THX-1138wait really? On the transfer subject action or just in general?
@@Lovelandmonkey On the subject transfer, so if it was 100 AE you would be under coalition at 50 instead
Snake claims are s tier, its half 50% admin efficiency on stealing vassals
I mean yeah it's good, but S already got VERY crowded.
I would say it’s S tier in Europe and B tier in other regions
Everyone is asking for province tier list but I wanna see a state tier list
After the siege, free force March in age of revolutions is one of my absolute favorites. It just makes life sooo much easier. Especially chasing down armies in the new world.
It’s honestly S tier just for the improvement in logistics and micro improvement
I think war score cost should be in it's own tier. It's the most important modifier in the game, second only to CCR and 25% is an absurd amount. Diplo ideas only gives 20%
I mean many things need their own tier here don't get me wrong.
It and admin eff would probably in its own tier
putting free forced march into d tier is just wrong. It makes the late game bearable
True if you can be bothered to micro it, but I see way too many people not hence I nocked it down to take into account actual playstyles I have seen
honestly by the time I unlock force march mana is already unlimited so I could care less about it costing mil points.
You're sleeping on free forced march in SP. The AI absolutely cannot handle the speed discrepancy, and it completely removes their ability to run away from you or otherwise reposition. You can trap them wherever you please. This is also why movement speed bonuses are GOATed in SP as well.
Trade power propagation from light ships is actually worse than you think, like laughably terrible.
So basically what happens is that you get trade power propagation from provinces naturally, that is to say, you get 20% of your provincial trade power propagated upstream. So you would think this ability gives you 20% of your light ship trade power as trade power in upstream provinces, right? Well, you would be wrong.
It actually enables propagation for light ships then applies the 20% from the age ability. So it gives you 20% of the natural 20%. That's right, you get a whopping FOUR percent trade power upstream from your light ships with this age ability.
Oh wow, fair enough: that's amazing! (ly bad)
As a Dutch I approve the unique age ability for the Netherlands in S-tier it is only fair since the age of absolutism is the Dutch golden (or gray "graauwe") age
As a Dutch person myself I now wonder if your history teacher perhaps had a weird accent when pronouncing "gouden eeuw" and made you think it was "grauwe eeuw".
Ship Trade Propagation is a legitimately hilarious modifier, because it only does the thing that province trade power does by default - propagate upstream a little. Venice lets you get a little mileage out of grinding Navy Tradition with protecting trade, Ship Trade Power Propagation is a nothing modifier. It’s not just not good, it’s something that can only be good if something that isn’t good was good.
The Warscore cost vs other Religions is actually insanely useful when you're conquering India, so long as you're not hindu. It applies based on the religion in a province, not based upon who owns the province, which means that if you're one of the western muslim nations, you can go and conquer a bunch of muslim nations in india a lot easier.
It's a 100% "must have" for all Orthodox countries, since all of them are surrounded by sunni or catholic nations
Completely cracked as shia mughals but also for Japan (esp if you stack with Oda ideas)
Resistance to Reformation never made province conversion slower. It makes COF target your provinces much rarely. If you stack it to an absurd amount through edicts and monuments your provinces will never be converted.
I think there should be F tier just for resistance to reformation, which for most nations does nothing literaly wasting your time to click it or annoying you with notification. This modifier and the objective to join reformation and printing press institution make age of reformation most disliked age by me since its biggest step back in reverting eurocentrism of the game.
It is bafflingthat in age of discovery you have alternative to christian objective, yet in this era there is none.
While renaissance spawns only in Italy,it starts just little over 5 years after start of the game so the railroading is caused by the things that happened before the start of the game.
Printing press, on the other hand have over 100 years of progress and in the alternative world where renaissance appeared in India faster than in France and where the colonialism started in Japan the restiction of it to spawn in protestant/reformed/german province is rather restricting.
i will never understand complaints about eurocentrism in a game called "universal europe" set in the age of europeans throwing haymakers at everyone else on the planet
22:47 Merc discipline was fixed in patch 1.36 and now works like normal discipline.
They CLAIMED to have fixed it, afaik when I played with it on 1.37 it was still broken.
Force Marching doesn't matter? You get around. A LOT quicker. Especially when you have to fight Russia inside Russia.
Oh its good, I just have to say I feel like most times I see it, people don't bother to micro it.
@@LemonCake101 If you pick the age bonus it's free and you can just activate it forever.
@@SpicyFiur exactly: having force march on prevents morale recovery and re-enforcement, meaning you should be microing it, but people are not.
when will we see ship tradepower stacking video
I have definitely made hating trade ships into a meme haven't I
@@LemonCake101 can you make a tier list for military modifiers?
Bro merc discipline has been fixed since 1.36
Sorry, they claimed to have fixed it, tested in 1.37 and it wasn't effecting tactics.
@@LemonCake101 ok ty for the info
@@Mattis06 np
I like the autonomy change cool down because it helps with building absolutism. Get burgher’s loyalty to below 50, seize land, and accept their demands giving you a lot of “lower autonomy” clicks which builds absolutism. Sometimes you have to run this 2 or 3 times and that ability helps in those circumstances
As far as I'm aware, it's not just mercenary discipline that works that way. Any buff to discipline that applies to only certain regiments only increases damage, and doesn't affect mil tactics. This includes buffs from special units and general traits.
7:50 there are UI mods that help you with that. I use UI a la Artemis this UI has a feature where a giant text is added to the age of refomation simply reading Disable Wartaxes in a nice Red Text
What have they done to my boy Austria, Austrian Diplomacy used to be so good in the HRE campaigns
So sad 5 dip rep for Austria was one of the last stupid number modifiers from the old days
I really appreciate this one
Thanks, it was suggested by a viewer!
@@LemonCake101 yeah me 😂
@@jric6283 oh fair!
47:10 my favourite way to describe such bonuses is "I win harder"
You're saying harsh treatment is underrated.. And then you underrate it. :|
It should be your first pick in the age in almost any situation. It will print absolutism and allows you to ignore rebellions for decades for almost no cost. In it's context, it is better than the 5% admin efficiency itself. Pick that one up 6 years later to top it off.
he HATES trade ships
If Lemon Cake its a lemon cake does that mean he's committing cannibalism
Trade power should never be judged as a "you're already rich, it doesn't matter" because it also makes the others in your nodes poorer. The Venice ability is incredible because it can absolutely decimate the Ottomans and Mamluks into destitution as you're hoarding all possible trade bonuses for yourself. Tax, war taxes, production and gold comes from your huddled masses. TRADE comes from **THEIR** huddled masses.
While true trade power is a terrible way of achievement that goal compared to just taking over that land in the Mamluks/Ottomans. You can argument that ‘I am not fighting to conquer’ but that’s suboptimal and hence falls outside the definition of a tier list, since arbitrary restrictions on optimal play mean that any ranking is pointless.
@@LemonCake101 No it doesn't, you might be fighting to conquer but need subversive ways of weakening an enemy to do so, stealing their trade income is one of the very best ways of doing that Edit: Though ship tradepower *propagation* from the normal one is garbage I agree since it needs like a chain of 7 unbroken consecutive trade nodes with 30 of your light ships in each to be worth taking over almost anything else
@@Vinterloft yes, but trade ships cost you money, money that can be spent on going over force limit and winning wars. Overall trade ship builds are very inefficient in terms of investment compared to conquest.
Mercenary discipline has been fixed since 1.36
I remember doing a game in 1.37 and it still being broken AFAIK, because I believe they claimed to have fixed it, and they didn't.
I'd put the +1 absolutism one higher because it really speeds up the "wait for C&C" way of stacking absolutism, you just pop that one, get your crownland to 70%, take the +0.5 yearly absolutism reform and you can trigger C&C in 20 years by just waiting. Some tryhards won't like that but let's be real, the bulk of the game of conquest starts once you unlock imperialism so this strat is not really slowing down all that much while being very convenient and chill.
Most of my conquest gets done in the age of reformation. By age of absolution I have pretty much conquered the world and my computer is dying
As mentioned in the video, harsh treatment is a faster way of accomplishing this and the age ability doubles how much absolutism you get per mil power
You probably have mil to spare for this by this point
any chance of an updated ideas guide/tier list?
completely seriously speaking, would be very helpful considering a lot of the good guides out there are outdated
Could be an idea, but a lot of people made ideas tier lists so I am worried about insulting people as I describe why they are wrong in detail.
@@LemonCake101 i think tbh its been covered well enough already, zlewikk did one, habibi did one for mp/casual sp/wc tryhard, so its not really worth going "hey, this is why your akshually wrong"
@@BobbiusRossius pretty much
10:40 Not to mention the worst part about it
It's Cav/Infantry ratio. But the image for it is an Infantry/Cav ratio
No you ruined it
I will defend ship trade power in multiplayer because in my experience no one cares about trade until half the lobby is dead.
Ship trade has a niche use if you are trying to get global trade. For that I’d put it in C tier
Question:
Do you consider restarting to get better starting conditions as birding?
Yes, but I consider birding overall acceptable, if that makes sense.
There's a lot of massively overestimated bonuses. There needs to be F tier for ones that do literally nothing (all the edicts, change rival cost).
Fort maintenance on border with rival is also F tier. It would be alright in earlier age, but at that point you probably don't even have rivals anymore, and even if you do, a few gold per month is nearly irrelevant. It just comes in the wrong age.
Denmark is in a good spot to get bohemia early game. The age ability helps to keep bohemia loyal.
They fixed merc discipline in a recent patch. It should work like it is described now
6:24 Notable examples: Norway, Sweden (if you bit off them a bit), Naples, Bohemia (when Austria takes it), Burgundy (if you missed it) and Timurid's vassals. Sadly can't take Lithuania/Hungary like that.
You can also take aragon if you have diplo ideas
I remember being able to take Sweden with transfer subject in my first war no problem, the problem is them staying as a subject long enough for me to have a chance to do it
@@diogomelo7897 they lost land to somebody or you had a bonus to war score. You need to reduce them by 19 dev.
@@abrvalg321 I don't remember if they lost any province, but it might have been the war score reduction, because I was playing as Austria and it was possibly after I completed diplo ideas
Free forced march should be an A-tier.
If the list had 1 more in A and B, but 1 less in C and S, it would be a bell curve.
Hey, I don't aim to make them pretty, I am to rank them!
well you can stack harsh treatment cost and raise absolutism for peanuts.
Talking about state edicts, will there be a tier list for them(including the ones mentioned in the video)?
Time to beat Playmaker already, his videos are too long.
True, imagine uploading a video over 10 min long could not be me
@@LemonCake101Yeah you’re my favourite eu4 shorts channel!
Meanwhile the Student: "You could do this by pressing left mouse button with your index finger once... So now, when you have pressed that button with your finger... look, that button is pressed, ok?.."
Zzzzz...
@tabularasa78 that's just him being German, I'll excuse it.
@@legitplayin6977 time to make some shorts tier lists
"None of these is a debuff.."
Au contraire, free war taxes meaning that 8 years into the age of reformation you realise you've wasted 100 military points by forgetting to turn it off is absolutely a debuff.
Tbh the Mughal ability is absolutely A/S-tier if you go admin-diplo-quality. Then you have 60% ACA. And let’s face it, as the Mughals you can afford a full back row on tech 7😁😍
as always, light ships were mentioned, im sure half the comment section wont be talking about it
24:02 Ship trade power propagation and ship trade power are not the same thing
Policies tier list when?
31:50 you have to wait x amount of years even to change them.
Light Ships are always bad at trade? That is not the general consensus.
Light ships have the fastest ROI in the game compared to any building, they can be used in combat, they weaken the income of your opponents, they are the fastest ships (for catching enemy fleets).
Arumba himself is the one who told me all this.
Just because light ships don't fit your play style/ you don't use them right doesn't make them bad.
I find it concerning that you're this experienced in EU4 and yet have a such a bad understanding of light ships.
They are not as bad as he says, but they aren't much better, because you only benefit from having them if you have a coast and you are in a good trade node
As for wanting to build galleys/heavies instead in single player, How many galleys/heavies do you really need to beat the AI? Not that many, especially as Venice who has all these naval combat ideas.
So if you don't the force limit for combat boats what else will you use your Naval Force limit for?
And if for some reason you do need to build more combat boats, it's really cheap to go over naval force limit.
@@heliogonzalezsanchez8227 Then use your light ships to pirate a good trade node, if that good trade node contains one of your rivals, you also get power projection
@@micahbonewell5994 the problem i see with light ships is that they are useful for small trade oriented countries that can make a lot of trade money even if they are small, but for the rest, unless playing tall, which also falls into the small countries, the best way to make money from trade is by just conquering those provinces in a trade node, and instead of only getting trade money, you get taxes and manpower too
you guys are building boats?
Counterpoint to the Russian Age ability being good: After around 1700 I'm no longer trying to build an economy, and Russia already has all the manpower in the world, so I don't really see the point in the minimum authority.
Sounds like you need to take more overextension them. More money means more troops over forcelimit, so faster expansion/rebel fighting etc.
When did france lose the +20% land fire damage? Has it been that long since i played eu4 lol
domination dlc i think. france is more powerful overall now and i think musketeers get some fire damage
Domination, France gets them on a unique unit now.
I always hate advancing to Age of Reformation, the bonuses feel just super lame compared what you get in Age of Discovery. Especially if I'm playing in East Asia or something and some religious bickering shenanigans at the other end of the world are utterly irrelevant to my country anyway.
22:00 I disagree (EDIT: I disagree with the Inca comment, not the rest of it). You should've already eaten all of your Inti neighbours by then, so it's only Europeans and none-Inti natives left to fight. So still good as Inca. The same goes for other popular natives like the Nahuatl, Maya and Alcheringa. Same with Shinto.. Yeah.. I think it's pretty useful for every nation. As a Totemist there might be other Totemists to fight by the time this is relevant, but there's still other religions to fight for them as well. EDIT: So, yeah, absolutely S-tier!
not the Inca specifically, I was more referring to a geographical area that was religiously united in fairness. Yes, it should be consolidated by 1510 ish.
cav/infantry is great for eastern nations. Poland, Hungary, Lithuania run with 90% ratio and even Ottomans can't stop it. You have better ratio + modifiers from estate and aristocratic ideas. For these few nations I would put this ability at A tier. I love numbers but sometimes it's not about getting 100% but getting 10-20% more that would change the balance of power. It's also important e.g. when you get new cavalry, some tech groups get it much later. At tech 6 I would choose easter tech 70% ratio over western 100%
There is no way that 50% of provinces is coastal.
while you talked about the war taxes problem i remebered that i still had war taxes on...
25:50 I disagree. It's often best to take both religious AND humanist when WCing
I mean that is a one faith, with Humanist on the side, so you are converting: I meant in pure non-conversion WC's which I believe are still in the majority
I audibly gasped in excitement when i saw this in my recommended.. This game has ruined me
Welcome to the club
Wait wasnt supposed mercenery discipline affected mercenery tactics in 1.36?
They said they fixed it. They lied.
Yay!
Bongo
Bongo
I don t agree with what you said about navies while talking about the venetian age ability at least for singleplayer. Generally i think it s better to fill your navy force limit with light ships since they have one of the best return to investment of anything you can spend money on. And sure , as venice and a bunch of other tags you also want to dominate the seas militarly , but it s also true that if you can beat navally whomever has the biggest fleet that you will fight you don't need to expand your combat fleet further. Any combat ships past that point are wasted navy force limit that you could instead convert into income via light ships, by protecting in your home node and eventually into critical nodes like the ivory coast or the caraibbean. Having said so it still wouldn t be my first age abilty pick as venice since ae impact and claims bordering claims tend to be more important. But i also can see as what i m saying depends on playstyle, and what you consider optimal play may not corrispond with mine
Is there anything this man can't rank
Could you do a tier list of reforms
I hate how they changed and neutered so many interesting and fun age abilities. Made the game so much more boring and countries more same-y
Ottoman + 1 siege A tier and Spanish +1 shock B tier, I have a feeling someone isn't being totally objective about this one.
Shock modifiers can be found in a lot more countries than siege modifiers, and even if +1 shock is good, you can't deny that having faster sieges is better than having better troops
+1 shock pips is easier to find than +1 siege pips and faster sieges is what wins you wars in eu4 SP
@@heliogonzalezsanchez8227 It is not that I disagree with your point, but i find +1 shock worthy to be low A as it is still a very strong pip category considering shock is still very valuable in combat at that point in time. You can't compare 1 shock to + prestige on conversion, for example, imo the +1 shock is way stronger than the prestige on conversion.
Compare to the others chief: like you are comparing to PWSC, Admin Efficiency, etc.
Oh yeah and siege pips are a lot harder then shock pips: they literally roll half the time compared to shock pips.