Even if a MiniSplit may be less efficient at lower temperatures, it has the much greater benefit that it can cool in the Summer, where other sources can't. Definitely worth the investment. Great video.
@@SkaBob in very cold climates, where it regularly gets below zero every night in January and February, supplemental heat sources such as a traditional furnace, boiler, or even wood burning stoves can make up for that.
In Australia we are mostly to hot or to cold so these units are everywhere. In cooling cycle in ideal conditions a cop of 5 is possible. However cooling really struggles if we get 40 to 50 degrees Celsius under a tree. Radiant heat from the ground gets much hotter been known to melt the tar roads near Cairns.
Mini splits are pretty awesome! Watched your video about the Bluetti and completely agree about how confusing the 240v plugs are. The marketing for those systems needs to be more clear about all that is required for getting that 240v output. Will be awesome when and if a standalone 240v unit becomes available.
@@BenjaminSahlstrom right?! I got so excited and was so confused when the ev charger flashed red haha. Can't wait for a stand alone 240V. They totally could do it too. It's like a mpp lv6048 but in a box. And that unit isn't that heavy, and has split phase 6000W output and everything else. Hope they come out with something soon. Been watching every heat pump video you've made!! Good stuff.
@@WillProwse Exactly. I'm working on another mini split heat pump video so that should be out eventually... haha Shoot me a text and then we can call and talk heat pumps and solar for fun sometime. I have a public number/contact form on www.benjaminsahlstrom.com and we can go from there if you want!
We used our mini split down well below zero for years and it was pretty darn cheap. Just removed it last summer and will reinstall it on a concrete pad. We had it wall mounted and that is very noisy! Real good information on this channel, keep up the good work!
I guess that wouldn't be considered "mild" in some places! These next few days look like they are going to be really nasty. Sunday's high is forecasted to be -7°f!
@@BenjaminSahlstrom Are you happy with the Cooper&Hunter unit so far? I’m looking to put one in here by Aberdeen soon. Dual head 12k/9k. Thanks for any feedback you can give me!
I have a hyper Fujitsu minisplit that works minus 15 degrees. I also have cheap models that work only up to 20 degrees. One thing I’ve noticed, minisplits are good for suppliment heat. As a primary heat source, not too much. The size of the unit, size of the room and a multi zone does have an impact on its efficiency.
I did a self install on a 18k btu mini split two years ago and have been very happy with the unit and it's cost to operate. My heating costs are dramatically lower than previous years when I relied solely on my oil fired boiler which works well and is fairly efficient. Boiler efficiency aside, I wanted AC for the house which is why I chose the mini split...the added benefit of heating from the same unit was icing on the cake. I tend to not run the mini split below 20 degrees F since I feel like the unit starts to work too hard making heat and the manufacturer states it's only efficient at heat production to about 15 F.
Great video! I'll be moving to an extremely cold weather environment soon, and this video answered quite a few questions I didn't even know I had! Thank you!
Just moved to an area with winter extremes down to -20F. I like the automatic nature of the heat pump. My concern is what this video brings out, the efficiency flop around 0F. My place has a propane monitor currently. But I am debating getting a wood pellet stove to solve the heat problem for good. Little more work involved with pellets but inexpensive. Not sure if I'll end up with heat pump but love the idea.
It’s amazing how good Mini splits have gotten. Midea/Carrier has a 40seer 15eer 14.5hspf at 5f its hitting 2cop. I installed a .75ton one in the basement and have tested it at -6f with 130discharge temp and set blower on furnace in off and can maintain a 2300sf closed cell home bit excessive for the central KY environment. This home is perfect world example being a cape cod on basement.
@@stevenle1760 It's honestly too high of a discharge temperature. Higher discharge temperatures mean higher compressor head pressures, higher power consumption, and lower efficiency. They are sacrificing COP so that people get to feel a warm breeze.
I have 2 Mitsubishi heads in 400 sq ft cabin, 2 rooms.. power is about $75/mo at 20-30 degrees n winter and I’m here half the day and all night. 78 in the daytime, 61 at night. Love em. That’s for hot water and other electrical appliances too
@@Dogatemyhomework927 the smaller the btu the higher the seer rating. I know they have cheaper mr cool, but I was skeptical about getting parts. Mitsubishis are pricey and seem to be common, but they do have a good seer rating.
Very clear explanation of the ability of a heat pumps operation at low temps. In my case I have a steam boiler that handles the really low temps, but for much of t he winter the heat pump carries the load.
Thank you for this video and especially for showing your calculations. This will be a great way to heat and cool my detached garage/workshop without needing to run a gas line as well as electric.
I come from the AC repair in automotive and I was curious on how this system can work as a heater. This is the only video I could find that mentions the evaporator working as a condenser and vise versa. Got it. Good video. Thanks!
One thing I noticed, it might be worthwhile to had additional insulation on your line set. It's evidently radiating quite a bit of heat that is cutting down on the efficiency of your unit.
Thanks Ben! I tried your site and discovered w wealth of information! Man, I have to say the web is lifting mankind out of it's the lower way of thinking. I'm 78 with 4 heat pumps, that I personally installed in my home; and I continually am amazed of the knowledge on the web.😇 I just sign on to your site!!
Great job, Ben! We built a net zero passive solar home in East Central MN 5 years ago and use mini-splits mostly for cooling but for a little bit of heating. Ours are Mitsubishi and are rated for -19º F. I usually run them a bit in the winter to exercise the heat function. Yes, they do work! I turned one of our two units on today after watching your video. Ambient outdoor temp is currently -5º F, and the units are outputting air at about 100º F. They are pulling about 1000 watts when running. It truly is amazing technology! I really enjoyed your infrared camera shots!! Cheers!
@@BenjaminSahlstrom We are grid tied. We have enough excess capacity to power an electric car. But until then, we just take the cash the utility pays us for our excess electricity!
I am putting in a heat pump tomorrow here in michigan. It is presently -8 Fahrenheit. I am running it through a traditional propane furnace so that when it gets this cold, I don't have to try to pull heat out of the outdoor air! It is only costing me $1,000 above what it would be for the propane only furnace and air conditioner.
@@jwill9877 I think perhaps I was not clear. This is the best of both worlds. I have the heat pump when that is more cost effective, then the propane when IT is most cost effective (below 35F). My ecobee thermostat tracks the outside temperature and uses whichever heat source is "cheaper."
@@rdmccracken I think I understand now. You are using the same ducting as your propane heater. The heat pump is outside the house where it should be and you decide which to use based on the outdoor temperature? The way you worded it the first time sounded like you had the propane heater preheating the air then you running that air over the heat pump coils.
@@jwill9877 Oh my goodness no. The evaporator of a traditional AC system becomes the condenser in a heat pump system. The two units swap roles depending on the need for heating vs cooling. The indoor portion of the system is installed in the furnace/air handler. The heat is generated by one energy source over the other based on outdoor temperature.
Knowing how the gas works when cycled makes all the difference in understanding why it can pull heat out of cold air or as they call heat exchange but it happens within the molecules in the gas vibrating and creating friction thus warming the condenser. Switching back and forth is very cool. I know car ac and understand house ac. But then being able to Essentially reverse the system is so cool!
Thanks for putting some no nonsense facts out there. I didn't realize that they could work to that cold of a temperature. I thought that anything at 32 degrees and lower you needed a back up heat. On the point of seeing the studs from the outside. You need a thermal break in there, a newer process I would highly recommend is the use of ZIP boards. They are sheathing with a layer of foam insulation applied to the inside. It increases the efficiency of your structure.
You need to look carefully at the specs. There are some affordable Pioneer units (19 SEER2/24k Btu) around $1200 that will operate down to -13F. Some other units are rated down to +20F. For more extreme temperatures you may find a 100% or higher price premium.
We have 5 Fujitsu units in our home and there are a huge improvement of the radiant heat ceiling. I run 4 of them year round, the 5th is for the guest room. Our extreme cold is -14 and they have no problem. The only gotcha is you have to clean the filters every month on the blowers. Outside unit needs to be washed down every 2 to 3 yrs.
My 3 ton R22 HP starts to loose below 30F about 1.5 ton, but I'm in Florida where it almost never goes under 40F, and when 60F outside it's doing 36k btu+. Good tech explanation.
Typically I set traditional heat pumps to switch over to gas somewhere between 20-30 degrees. Below that temperature it isn't worth wearing out the heat pump/AC unit in my opinion.
Good info...thanks! Last April, I installed a Senville LETO (18K BTU/19 SEER/3.1 COP). I live in upstate New York. So far I am very impressed with how well the unit works for both heating and cooling. Actually, I have used it more for heating than cooling. I have a small propane fireplace, but it sits idle (I haven't even lit the pilot light this year!) Today it never got above 20 and the mini-split heated my small home easily. During the colder evening hours, I wake up my wood boiler to heat the floor (yes, I love my heated floors!) I would appreciate a discussion (theory of operation) on the defrost cycle. My mini-split has 3 sensors. I am interested in how the controls uses these temperature inputs to decide when a defrost is required. I have watched the unit's entire defrost cycle...usually takes between 8-10 minutes before it goes back into heat mode. Neat watching the frosted coil thaw out! It took time to get use to the unit switching from defrost back into heat mode (WHOOOOOSH!) Regards, JT
Time spent in heat mode, but the key indicator is temperature of the outdoor coil. I haven't looked at all the sensors yet in my Senville unit. But if you are in NY you should have gotten the Aura series unit instead.
@@sprockkets Actually, I am very pleased on how the unit I have has performed. Coming up on the one-year anniversary since startup. I really wanted a Mitsubishi, but ALL of the Dealers here are arrogant, self-righteous, disrespectful, and rude!
@@Kntryhart No one here wanted to install one either. But I think it is because they know once they tell you the price it is a hard no. Like, probably at least $3000 a zone.
Good video, thank you for the content! I have an older heat pump i'm looking to replace, been considering the newer Mr. Cool Universal that can operate at pretty cold ambient temps. Got real tired of the old heat pump being turned off and running in 'backup heat mode' (aka toaster mode with resistance heat) during that stretch of near zero degree temps. I have my compressor cutoff around 15 degrees currently, seeing the Mr. Cool Universal able to stay fairly efficient in sub-zero temps but curious about real world experiences.
I currently heat and cool with two Senville 12k BTU 26 SEER units. They perform amazingly without heat strips when it's well below 0° F. with blowing snow. I installed the units myself and really like them!
I have a Fujitsu minisplit (rated to -15F) and I live a multiunit building in Fargo, ND. Above 30F, it's all I need usually. From 0F to 30F, it's worth running with supplemental heat from electric baseboard. Below 0F, it still puts out heat, but I feel like it doesn't put out very much heat. When it's below 0, I usually shut off all the indoor units except for one, because it's really only generating enough heat for one room. And it works great as an air conditioner.
I'm a auto HVAC guy have used mini splits, love them,I think if we line the rear grate with a heat rope for pipes the mini split would pull heat off of that to increase efficiency and less defrost cycles with better heating.
Excellent presentation. Fortunately, my home has natural gas heating, and my gas bill last month (for January) was $60.00 to heat my 1850 SF house to 76 degrees F (24/7). I live in AZ in the Phoenix metro area. A heat pump would cost me much more to heat my home than using natural gas and in the summer my TOTAL gas bill (to run a gas hot water heater) averages less than $25.00 per month. My AC cooling cost on the hottest month in the summer was about $100.00. For this climate, it is the most energy efficient combination. In the winter we get temperatures that drop near to freezing (32 degrees F). My Trane gas heater rarely runs more than five minutes to maintain the temperature at night. Have a great week.
@@AlexAlex-nk6gy Hello, no, Trane does not require a two-stage gas furnace in my area because it is very hot most of the year. I live in the Phoenix metro area in AZ. It does get cold here for about three months of the year. It rarely freezes, but occasionally it does. I just added insulation last year and I think my worst gas bill has been around $100.00. But keep in mind that I also have a gas water heater. So it is dirt cheap to heat my house. My typical gas bill is less than $25.00 for about eight months of the year. Then for about 3-4 months it rises to $50 and then $75.00.
Excellent job Ben; as an ME, I truly appreciate the level of technical detail you provide. I installed 18 Pioneer 9K BTU minis in my Assisted Living community in NE Ohio about 2 years ago. It might surprise people to learn that the only real rest that these units get, is in the summer time because seniors like it warm almost all the time. In the first six months of operation, the performance was flawless with the only exception being a bad outdoor unit control board, which was covered under warranty and relatively easy to replace. As time goes on, I'm beginning to see some little things like indoor unit fan motors becoming more noisy in a couple of the units. All in all, I am pleased with the performance and my application will be a true test of a high duty cycle scenario. I will say that about the biggest complaint I had with installation, is the flimsy drain line material. which become brittle when subjected to the elements outside. I have since installed two more of these units for other clients and I swapped out the flimsy drain line with PEX, which will save some headaches down the road I think. Also, as a closing comment that echoes yours in past videos, keep your indoor filters clean or condenser will ice up in heat mode.
Thanks for sharing your experience! Mini split systems really do perform well for their intended use as long as the installation was done correctly. If you get a quality leak free system it should last many years with little to no trouble. How often do you clean the filters on your units?
My indoor filters only get lightly dirty after about 6 months, with woodworking in the same shop. Rhe Mitsubishi ones are easy to get out and even easier to clean. With PEX, are you having any mold issues? In 2009, I used PEX for an AC drain line and it had mold buildup inside the see through line.
Thanks for your question and comment. In my application, the system almost never shuts off, especially in the winter. So we are constantly filtering the air. I assume you turn your system off or down when you’re not using it, so your filters will stay clean longer. The mold issue you mention likely has little to do with the drain material and everything to do with the slope of the drain and whether there are any areas that are holding water like a trap. In these systems, it is critical that the drain is as straight as possible with steady slope to daylight. A more rigid tubing like PEX will reduce the chances of kinking if you conceal the drain in the wall like I did.
@@philsmith1590 This was a Lennox furnace with both HE furnace and AC using the same drain line. The installers had used CPVC and it cracked a few months after install. I replaced the down line below the drain water box on the furnace, which always had water in it intentionally. The PEX line would get mold inside, so I had to put mold kill chemicals in the water box.
@@philsmith1590 I use the two mini splits in a 35x50 insulated pole barn, heating it for about 8 months a year. I guess I should say the filters get dirty after about 4 months as I clean them twice a year, with a light amount on them, like a small load of towels on a dryer filter. They have been running about 20-60% duty cycle in spring and fall, and 80-100% after it is below 30 F. I use them for cooling sometimes in the summer. The woodworking part of the shop is used more in the summer using a central duat collection syatem on opposite side of shop from minis, so that might cut down on wood dust in filter.
Thinking about getting one of these. It is great that it can go down so low. I live in Michigan, it can actually get down to -10 or -20 below zero at times.
I agree with all of the comments, you do a great job explaining the COP, I would really like to see you analyze a air to water heat pump for several climate zones like a Noraire with a single heat pump central system, or an Apollo or Spacepak Monoblock type system.
But at some point doesn't it become cheaper to run my main heat source even if that is electric? I'm from northern mn too and as of now these smaller heat pumps will only ever be supplemental heat.
@@jwill9877 it has to be sized for heating. the energy a hp compressor consumes gets absorbed by the refrigerant and helps heat the space. only when the efficiency drops to the point that defrost cycles offset any gain. i would say a cop of 1.2
I'm looking at these in the UK and was back converting the temperatures to °C and our average Winter low is 37°F, even in 2010 when we had a really cold Winter it went down to -16°C (3.2°F). England's record lowest recorded temperature was in January 1982 when we hit -27.2°C (-17°F).
Those work great for places like Seattle, we spend most of the winter with rain around 38-42 degrees. Maybe 1 week or less with snow on the ground and even then it's in the 20s.
Well done vid, Ben. Unlike your tropical southern Minnesota temperatures, I had -33F yesterday morning as I cruised by the Mississippi River. I think the standard heat pump(non-minisplit) units that most HVAC guys install have a cut off temp that hovers in the 20F range. This mini-split unit would be a good option for those over garage bonus rooms that tend to be outfitted with baseboard electric.
@@BenjaminSahlstrom I have a 5Kw electric that keeps my bonus room warm, plus I do have a single flex duct from my furnace that pushes some heat. The 5Kw unit is on my off peak panel, so I get the cheaper rate at $0.0672 per Kwh. Same with my heat pump, slab heat boiler, and plenum heater...it's on the off peak controlled panel, so I'm seeing the propane furnace kicking on frequently during this arctic cold snap as the power company is controlling the panel fairly frequently. I've been supplementing with my cast iron Jotul wood burning unit that sits in my living room...nothing like a fire crackling away when the air gets brisk outside.
Thanks for the video. My generation had to deal with "early" models in the 70's & 80's. They were terrible and made me really wary to get back into type of HVAC system.
Here is W TX inverter heat pumps work well, especially if you oversize. Problems with oversize don't exist here in summer as our humidity is nil. We can upsize by 50% without issue and have heat down to the lowest it gets to be here in winter. These work great.
Thank you for the hard work you put into your videos. You really helped me have a better understanding of how they work. I'm in the process of deciding if I should replace my old central AC or install mini splits. Would you recommend a 3 zone CH unit? Wondering if one head unit stops working do you need to replace the whole thing? Thank you again. I really enjoy your material.
Heat pumps spend more time in defrost when the outdoor temperature ranges from 47F to the mid 20’s especially rainy/snowy/freezing rain miserable days. For best results try to install the outdoor unit where it’s protected from the wind...use evergreen shrubs or decorative barriers at least four feet away from the unit. Lengthy defrost cycles dramatically reduce efficiency.
@@BenjaminSahlstrom All good tips my installers neglected to mention when I asked for quotes. I certainly feel most of the installers in my area are singularly focused on getting paid. I even asked about putting the external units under my deck and they poo-pooed the idea. Many also wanted to hang the units right off the exterior wall behind my living room which I understand often creates annoying vibration.
Wouldn't more wind be GOOD? I has a fan in it. The objective is to equalize the coils with the ambient temperature, that's what the fan helps to do. Wouldn't wind help do that?
Great video and really helpful. I will be using a mini split for my shop (16x24 insulated garage). We are on propane which I knew would be much more expensive to run vs the mini
Exactly. It is great to have the backup option of propane available though. I am going to install a vent free LP heater in the coming days for that purpose.
8:45 wish I've seen when this came out. to simplify, you need more than 2 COP to make it worth while for a heat pump. even simpler, a heat pump is not worth it unless you're going to use its cooling/cold operation. consider the installation cost and heatpumps/ACs don't last as long as gas heaters
Great video. And you are correct and accurate, however; respectfully, I debate that compression of refrigerant is "creating" most of the heat being used. There's so much to be said about how heat is transfered that it's hard for people to wrap their head around, so scripting your video to be easy to understand was a good call. I think we can agree that "temperature" is a construct developed to more easily understand the release and transfer of energy. I'm impressed how far things have come since wet blankets and ice boxes
I will be moving to the Twin Cities soon. No central cooling in the house. Radiator heat so retro-fitting ducting isn't smart. I was thinking mini-splits in the two upstairs bedrooms would be the way to go. Nice to know that these hyper heat systems exist.
As a hvac tech of 18 years I’ll tell you that I love ductless splits, they break down all the time and I make tons of money off them.. I’ll take ductwork and natural gas any day , refrigerant leaks are so common with ductless due to stupid flare fittings also control boards , blower motors and condensate leaks are always inevitable
As an HVAC tech myself (in Canada)I have a different opinion. I have installed many of these or even conventional forced air heat pump. Most of the units I have installed have worked without issue for years. The splits go well into country home renovations that used to use straight base boards or wood fire stoves. No duct work available for retrofits. They also work well in the city were folks have tuned attics into living space or mad add one in the form of sun rooms, which also have no ducts. I always wondered why people cite failures on heat pumps that can also be found on ACs or gas fired furnaces. Boards on furnaces? Yes. Blower motors on forced air? Yes. Refrigerant leaks on ACs? Yes. If your flares are giving you a hard time I would recommend follow torque specs and using a small amount of sealant/lubricant. Use a good tool and make a nice flares. Will some leak? Of course but boy is it easy to find when the flare does leak. Reclaim the remaining r410a. Redoflare. Vacuum. Weigh in charge. Done. But this is a small.percentage. Moral of the story. Proper Installation practice in proper application these units are great.
I just replaced a top of the line carrier nat gas furnace that only lasted a few months over the warranty of 10 years because it was more expensive to fix it AGAIN, rather than replace the whole thing.
Great video. Best one I have seen. Been looking at moving to northern ID. Will build an ICF house. The prevalent push from what I have read is radiant hydronic floor heating coupled to a boiler. Once I got away from the marketing, I started finding folks that are heating 3600SF tight homes with two minis. They have backup systems with a different heat source for redundancy and diversity. Thank you for the COP.
Smart guy . I m going to replace my central ac next week . So i was looking for information about heat pump . how it works in in our Minnesota's winter . To me looks like paying upfront for heat pump wont return in savings . May be later more and more advenced technologyes will be able to heat house in extreme winter.
The most comprehensive and accurate video on heat pumps. This should be available in all schools and universities as well.
As an engineer and DIYer, you really speak my language!
Even if a MiniSplit may be less efficient at lower temperatures, it has the much greater benefit that it can cool in the Summer, where other sources can't. Definitely worth the investment. Great video.
True, a propane or electric heater are just a waste of space in the summer.
@@SkaBob in very cold climates, where it regularly gets below zero every night in January and February, supplemental heat sources such as a traditional furnace, boiler, or even wood burning stoves can make up for that.
In Australia we are mostly to hot or to cold so these units are everywhere. In cooling cycle in ideal conditions a cop of 5 is possible. However cooling really struggles if we get 40 to 50 degrees Celsius under a tree. Radiant heat from the ground gets much hotter been known to melt the tar roads near Cairns.
SgtSchulz - I think the dual function of heat pumps are their best feature.
Great video buddy. Super cool heat camera shots too
Mini splits are pretty awesome! Watched your video about the Bluetti and completely agree about how confusing the 240v plugs are. The marketing for those systems needs to be more clear about all that is required for getting that 240v output. Will be awesome when and if a standalone 240v unit becomes available.
@@BenjaminSahlstrom right?! I got so excited and was so confused when the ev charger flashed red haha. Can't wait for a stand alone 240V. They totally could do it too. It's like a mpp lv6048 but in a box. And that unit isn't that heavy, and has split phase 6000W output and everything else. Hope they come out with something soon.
Been watching every heat pump video you've made!! Good stuff.
@@WillProwse Exactly. I'm working on another mini split heat pump video so that should be out eventually... haha
Shoot me a text and then we can call and talk heat pumps and solar for fun sometime. I have a public number/contact form on www.benjaminsahlstrom.com and we can go from there if you want!
@@WillProwse (507) 298-2367 not sure if it'll allow me to post my number or not but there it is
Very timing and relevant video for me. I’m considering installing 2 mini splits in a northern MN cabin this summer. Thanks!
Good idea but maybe a wood stove for backup would be wise?
We used our mini split down well below zero for years and it was pretty darn cheap. Just removed it last summer and will reinstall it on a concrete pad. We had it wall mounted and that is very noisy! Real good information on this channel, keep up the good work!
Yea, mine vibrates too. I had to put some rubber grommets on the wall to quiet the unit down! Next time I’ll ground mount too
@@Dogatemyhomework927 I put mine on absorbing vibration springs they work much better
@@andreycham4797 I think that’s the answer!
@@Dogatemyhomework927 make sure you buy springs designed for different weights in order to install a unit more straight, compressor side is heavier
@@andreycham4797 great advice about the springs. I wonder if the manufacturer gives you the information on the type of springs.
Great info. You made me chuckle when you said "mild cold".
Only up north will someone say "mild cold" when it is 20°F outside.
I guess that wouldn't be considered "mild" in some places! These next few days look like they are going to be really nasty. Sunday's high is forecasted to be -7°f!
@@BenjaminSahlstrom, yikes. Im in central MI.
-10F outside today and me and my kids still were playing outside. It's all what you get used to i guess
@@BenjaminSahlstrom , definitely not jorts weather!
@@BenjaminSahlstrom
Are you happy with the Cooper&Hunter unit so far?
I’m looking to put one in here by Aberdeen soon. Dual head 12k/9k.
Thanks for any feedback you can give me!
I have a hyper Fujitsu minisplit that works minus 15 degrees. I also have cheap models that work only up to 20 degrees. One thing I’ve noticed, minisplits are good for suppliment heat. As a primary heat source, not too much. The size of the unit, size of the room and a multi zone does have an impact on its efficiency.
That's like saying you'll be hungry if you eat less.
Long time Benjame we truly missed you sir. Thank you for coming back 🤝
It's only been a week or two right? Haha! I need to get videos out more frequently that's for sure!
I did a self install on a 18k btu mini split two years ago and have been very happy with the unit and it's cost to operate. My heating costs are dramatically lower than previous years when I relied solely on my oil fired boiler which works well and is fairly efficient. Boiler efficiency aside, I wanted AC for the house which is why I chose the mini split...the added benefit of heating from the same unit was icing on the cake. I tend to not run the mini split below 20 degrees F since I feel like the unit starts to work too hard making heat and the manufacturer states it's only efficient at heat production to about 15 F.
What type of Mini Split did you install?
COP curves against ambient temperature would be enormously helpful.
What’s that?
Phenomenal information young man. Thank you for all this information.
Great video! I'll be moving to an extremely cold weather environment soon, and this video answered quite a few questions I didn't even know I had! Thank you!
Just moved to an area with winter extremes down to -20F. I like the automatic nature of the heat pump. My concern is what this video brings out, the efficiency flop around 0F. My place has a propane monitor currently. But I am debating getting a wood pellet stove to solve the heat problem for good. Little more work involved with pellets but inexpensive. Not sure if I'll end up with heat pump but love the idea.
I dont understand a bit of this .... except , that I love what it does !! Amazing. Thanks.
It’s amazing how good Mini splits have gotten. Midea/Carrier has a 40seer 15eer 14.5hspf at 5f its hitting 2cop. I installed a .75ton one in the basement and have tested it at -6f with 130discharge temp and set blower on furnace in off and can maintain a 2300sf closed cell home bit excessive for the central KY environment. This home is perfect world example being a cape cod on basement.
130f discharge temp is very good. That's almost as high as a gas furnace, especially if you consider loss in a ducted system.
@@stevenle1760 It's honestly too high of a discharge temperature. Higher discharge temperatures mean higher compressor head pressures, higher power consumption, and lower efficiency. They are sacrificing COP so that people get to feel a warm breeze.
Terrible cop for a so called super high efficiency unit. What a scam rating.
My 24k 20 seer 10.5 hspf beats that lol
I have 2 Mitsubishi heads in 400 sq ft cabin, 2 rooms.. power is about $75/mo at 20-30 degrees n winter and I’m here half the day and all night. 78 in the daytime, 61 at night. Love em. That’s for hot water and other electrical appliances too
hi im in NY we pay upwards of 85 cents per KW. do you how many KW you use monthly in the winter?
What size units?
@@user-ln7of9gs4s I’d have to look, but they’re smaller..it’s a small house 500 square ft.. I oversized them so they don’t have to work too hard
@@Dogatemyhomework927 the smaller the btu the higher the seer rating. I know they have cheaper mr cool, but I was skeptical about getting parts. Mitsubishis are pricey and seem to be common, but they do have a good seer rating.
@@user-ln7of9gs4s this system cost me 3K and I was the HVAC man’s helper.. probably saved 500 bucks
Very clear explanation of the ability of a heat pumps operation at low temps.
In my case I have a steam boiler that handles the really low temps, but for much of t he winter the heat pump carries the load.
Can't say more. Very clear👍👍👍
One of the best videos ive ever seen thank you!
Finally someone talking about heat pumps in MN climates. Thanks for the video!
Thank you for this video and especially for showing your calculations. This will be a great way to heat and cool my detached garage/workshop without needing to run a gas line as well as electric.
nice name
I come from the AC repair in automotive and I was curious on how this system can work as a heater. This is the only video I could find that mentions the evaporator working as a condenser and vise versa. Got it. Good video. Thanks!
just look at it backward your condenser becomes your evaperetor and condenser becomes evap!
I'm most impressed that you can get propane for $1.60/gallon. It's more like $3/gallon where I live.
Great video. Both practical and scientific. Very cool FLIR. Show this to your kids. It might inspire future scientists/engineers.
Very informative video !! Thanks !!
One thing I noticed, it might be worthwhile to had additional insulation on your line set. It's evidently radiating quite a bit of heat that is cutting down on the efficiency of your unit.
Excellent advice.. 💯👍🏽
Another thing I noticed/wondered is why the line set was so long on the outside? Wouldn't that be another avenue for heat loss?
@@stevenwebber5998 Exactly, why not run the line inside the room?
@@timothyprice9064 ok, dude, that's a good point. That thought didn't even cross my mind!
@@stevenwebber5998 ....and why not run it inside as soon as it leaves unit ?
Thanks Ben! I tried your site and discovered w wealth of information! Man, I have to say the web is lifting mankind out of it's the lower way of thinking. I'm 78 with 4 heat pumps, that I personally installed in my home; and I continually am amazed of the knowledge on the web.😇 I just sign on to your site!!
Great job, Ben! We built a net zero passive solar home in East Central MN 5 years ago and use mini-splits mostly for cooling but for a little bit of heating. Ours are Mitsubishi and are rated for -19º F. I usually run them a bit in the winter to exercise the heat function. Yes, they do work! I turned one of our two units on today after watching your video. Ambient outdoor temp is currently -5º F, and the units are outputting air at about 100º F. They are pulling about 1000 watts when running. It truly is amazing technology! I really enjoyed your infrared camera shots!! Cheers!
Wow that's great! Do you have a grid tied solar setup or are you totally off-grid? Would be interesting to see your net zero setup sometime!
@@BenjaminSahlstrom We are grid tied. We have enough excess capacity to power an electric car. But until then, we just take the cash the utility pays us for our excess electricity!
Love the name.
Great explanation on mini split
Great analysis of the mini split system using real life examples. This is one of the few videos I’ve watched to the end.
Great video! Very good explanations and the thermal camera portion said it all.
Another very handy video, thanks.
Dude super helpful information for a new homeowner like myself living in Canada. Thanks a million, saving this information preciously!
Very smart video. Full of concise facts. Very helpful for costing out energy sources
We have an LG Inverter V which has provided heat down to -29 C. It held a temp of +20C set at +21C. Very happy with unit. Unit is now 7 years old.
Very informative!
I am putting in a heat pump tomorrow here in michigan. It is presently -8 Fahrenheit. I am running it through a traditional propane furnace so that when it gets this cold, I don't have to try to pull heat out of the outdoor air! It is only costing me $1,000 above what it would be for the propane only furnace and air conditioner.
So your heating air then pulling heat out of that air to heat your house? Sounds very inefficient unless I'm interpreting what you said incorrectly.
This is a horrible idea. I think you don’t really understand how this works.
@@jwill9877 I think perhaps I was not clear. This is the best of both worlds. I have the heat pump when that is more cost effective, then the propane when IT is most cost effective (below 35F). My ecobee thermostat tracks the outside temperature and uses whichever heat source is "cheaper."
@@rdmccracken I think I understand now. You are using the same ducting as your propane heater. The heat pump is outside the house where it should be and you decide which to use based on the outdoor temperature? The way you worded it the first time sounded like you had the propane heater preheating the air then you running that air over the heat pump coils.
@@jwill9877 Oh my goodness no. The evaporator of a traditional AC system becomes the condenser in a heat pump system. The two units swap roles depending on the need for heating vs cooling. The indoor portion of the system is installed in the furnace/air handler. The heat is generated by one energy source over the other based on outdoor temperature.
Knowing how the gas works when cycled makes all the difference in understanding why it can pull heat out of cold air or as they call heat exchange but it happens within the molecules in the gas vibrating and creating friction thus warming the condenser. Switching back and forth is very cool. I know car ac and understand house ac. But then being able to Essentially reverse the system is so cool!
Thanks for putting some no nonsense facts out there. I didn't realize that they could work to that cold of a temperature. I thought that anything at 32 degrees and lower you needed a back up heat. On the point of seeing the studs from the outside. You need a thermal break in there, a newer process I would highly recommend is the use of ZIP boards. They are sheathing with a layer of foam insulation applied to the inside. It increases the efficiency of your structure.
You need to look carefully at the specs. There are some affordable Pioneer units (19 SEER2/24k Btu) around $1200 that will operate down to -13F. Some other units are rated down to +20F. For more extreme temperatures you may find a 100% or higher price premium.
We have 5 Fujitsu units in our home and there are a huge improvement of the radiant heat ceiling. I run 4 of them year round, the 5th is for the guest room. Our extreme cold is -14 and they have no problem. The only gotcha is you have to clean the filters every month on the blowers. Outside unit needs to be washed down every 2 to 3 yrs.
Great job! Earned a subscription. Will refer others to this!
My 3 ton R22 HP starts to loose below 30F about 1.5 ton, but I'm in Florida where it almost never goes under 40F, and when 60F outside it's doing 36k btu+. Good tech explanation.
Typically I set traditional heat pumps to switch over to gas somewhere between 20-30 degrees. Below that temperature it isn't worth wearing out the heat pump/AC unit in my opinion.
This is exactly the video I was looking for. I’m in Minnesota and looking to size a mini split for a very small passive house.
Good info...thanks!
Last April, I installed a Senville LETO (18K BTU/19 SEER/3.1 COP). I live in upstate New York. So far I am very impressed with how well the unit works for both heating and cooling. Actually, I have used it more for heating than cooling. I have a small propane fireplace, but it sits idle (I haven't even lit the pilot light this year!) Today it never got above 20 and the mini-split heated my small home easily. During the colder evening hours, I wake up my wood boiler to heat the floor (yes, I love my heated floors!)
I would appreciate a discussion (theory of operation) on the defrost cycle. My mini-split has 3 sensors. I am interested in how the controls uses these temperature inputs to decide when a defrost is required. I have watched the unit's entire defrost cycle...usually takes between 8-10 minutes before it goes back into heat mode. Neat watching the frosted coil thaw out! It took time to get use to the unit switching from defrost back into heat mode (WHOOOOOSH!) Regards, JT
Time spent in heat mode, but the key indicator is temperature of the outdoor coil. I haven't looked at all the sensors yet in my Senville unit. But if you are in NY you should have gotten the Aura series unit instead.
@@sprockkets Actually, I am very pleased on how the unit I have has performed. Coming up on the one-year anniversary since startup.
I really wanted a Mitsubishi, but ALL of the Dealers here are arrogant, self-righteous, disrespectful, and rude!
@@Kntryhart No one here wanted to install one either. But I think it is because they know once they tell you the price it is a hard no. Like, probably at least $3000 a zone.
Got the 25 seer unit in ottawa.... amazing machines!
Good video, thank you for the content! I have an older heat pump i'm looking to replace, been considering the newer Mr. Cool Universal that can operate at pretty cold ambient temps. Got real tired of the old heat pump being turned off and running in 'backup heat mode' (aka toaster mode with resistance heat) during that stretch of near zero degree temps. I have my compressor cutoff around 15 degrees currently, seeing the Mr. Cool Universal able to stay fairly efficient in sub-zero temps but curious about real world experiences.
I currently heat and cool with two Senville 12k BTU 26 SEER units. They perform amazingly without heat strips when it's well below 0° F. with blowing snow. I installed the units myself and really like them!
Thank You Ben !!! Great Info !!
Excellent video, well thought out and presented!
I have a Fujitsu minisplit (rated to -15F) and I live a multiunit building in Fargo, ND. Above 30F, it's all I need usually. From 0F to 30F, it's worth running with supplemental heat from electric baseboard. Below 0F, it still puts out heat, but I feel like it doesn't put out very much heat. When it's below 0, I usually shut off all the indoor units except for one, because it's really only generating enough heat for one room. And it works great as an air conditioner.
Thanks for crunching the numbers. Very helpful an and very well done.
Thanks Benjamin! Very helpful, especially with the fuel cost comparison! I'm in MN too.
I'm a auto HVAC guy have used mini splits, love them,I think if we line the rear grate with a heat rope for pipes the mini split would pull heat off of that to increase efficiency and less defrost cycles with better heating.
Excellent presentation. Fortunately, my home has natural gas heating, and my gas bill last month (for January) was $60.00 to heat my 1850 SF house to 76 degrees F (24/7). I live in AZ in the Phoenix metro area. A heat pump would cost me much more to heat my home than using natural gas and in the summer my TOTAL gas bill (to run a gas hot water heater) averages less than $25.00 per month. My AC cooling cost on the hottest month in the summer was about $100.00. For this climate, it is the most energy efficient combination. In the winter we get temperatures that drop near to freezing (32 degrees F). My Trane gas heater rarely runs more than five minutes to maintain the temperature at night. Have a great week.
Hello. Do you have 2 stage or modulating heating stage gas furnace?
@@AlexAlex-nk6gy Hello, no, Trane does not require a two-stage gas furnace in my area because it is very hot most of the year. I live in the Phoenix metro area in AZ. It does get cold here for about three months of the year. It rarely freezes, but occasionally it does.
I just added insulation last year and I think my worst gas bill has been around $100.00. But keep in mind that I also have a gas water heater. So it is dirt cheap to heat my house. My typical gas bill is less than $25.00 for about eight months of the year. Then for about 3-4 months it rises to $50 and then $75.00.
Mini split tech has improved since this was made as well, keep that in mind..
Awesome video thank you!
This is going to be my first winter with MR COOL here in Minnesota. Anyone who lives here knows the crasy temps that gets.
Excellent job Ben; as an ME, I truly appreciate the level of technical detail you provide. I installed 18 Pioneer 9K BTU minis in my Assisted Living community in NE Ohio about 2 years ago. It might surprise people to learn that the only real rest that these units get, is in the summer time because seniors like it warm almost all the time. In the first six months of operation, the performance was flawless with the only exception being a bad outdoor unit control board, which was covered under warranty and relatively easy to replace. As time goes on, I'm beginning to see some little things like indoor unit fan motors becoming more noisy in a couple of the units. All in all, I am pleased with the performance and my application will be a true test of a high duty cycle scenario. I will say that about the biggest complaint I had with installation, is the flimsy drain line material. which become brittle when subjected to the elements outside. I have since installed two more of these units for other clients and I swapped out the flimsy drain line with PEX, which will save some headaches down the road I think. Also, as a closing comment that echoes yours in past videos, keep your indoor filters clean or condenser will ice up in heat mode.
Thanks for sharing your experience! Mini split systems really do perform well for their intended use as long as the installation was done correctly. If you get a quality leak free system it should last many years with little to no trouble.
How often do you clean the filters on your units?
My indoor filters only get lightly dirty after about 6 months, with woodworking in the same shop. Rhe Mitsubishi ones are easy to get out and even easier to clean.
With PEX, are you having any mold issues? In 2009, I used PEX for an AC drain line and it had mold buildup inside the see through line.
Thanks for your question and comment. In my application, the system almost never shuts off, especially in the winter. So we are constantly filtering the air. I assume you turn your system off or down when you’re not using it, so your filters will stay clean longer. The mold issue you mention likely has little to do with the drain material and everything to do with the slope of the drain and whether there are any areas that are holding water like a trap. In these systems, it is critical that the drain is as straight as possible with steady slope to daylight. A more rigid tubing like PEX will reduce the chances of kinking if you conceal the drain in the wall like I did.
@@philsmith1590 This was a Lennox furnace with both HE furnace and AC using the same drain line. The installers had used CPVC and it cracked a few months after install. I replaced the down line below the drain water box on the furnace, which always had water in it intentionally. The PEX line would get mold inside, so I had to put mold kill chemicals in the water box.
@@philsmith1590 I use the two mini splits in a 35x50 insulated pole barn, heating it for about 8 months a year. I guess I should say the filters get dirty after about 4 months as I clean them twice a year, with a light amount on them, like a small load of towels on a dryer filter. They have been running about 20-60% duty cycle in spring and fall, and 80-100% after it is below 30 F.
I use them for cooling sometimes in the summer.
The woodworking part of the shop is used more in the summer using a central duat collection syatem on opposite side of shop from minis, so that might cut down on wood dust in filter.
Thinking about getting one of these. It is great that it can go down so low. I live in Michigan, it can actually get down to -10 or -20 below zero at times.
It can work that low but it’s efficiency drops drastically in those low temperatures.
I agree with all of the comments, you do a great job explaining the COP, I would really like to see you analyze a air to water heat pump for several climate zones like a Noraire with a single heat pump central system, or an Apollo or Spacepak Monoblock type system.
I live in Easten Canada and my main source of heat is a mini pump.
Great video. I'm looking at 2x9000 BTU Senville HF units.
Great job ! Best explanation I have ever seen !
Great job breaking it all down. Should bust out your decoder ring and do one on SEER ratings.
There are units that maintain full capacity down to like 0f. Capacity is more important than the cop when the backup is electric.
But at some point doesn't it become cheaper to run my main heat source even if that is electric? I'm from northern mn too and as of now these smaller heat pumps will only ever be supplemental heat.
@@jwill9877 it has to be sized for heating. the energy a hp compressor consumes gets absorbed by the refrigerant and helps heat the space. only when the efficiency drops to the point that defrost cycles offset any gain. i would say a cop of 1.2
Very smart, I've learned a lot. Heating cost is much more than cooling here in Long Island, NY. I have a cottage I'm planning on putting it in.
Great information. Nice to hear facts. Am I right?
Excellent information! Thank you. Checking out the J-orts now. :-)
Excellent video 👍👍
I'm looking at these in the UK and was back converting the temperatures to °C and our average Winter low is 37°F, even in 2010 when we had a really cold Winter it went down to -16°C (3.2°F). England's record lowest recorded temperature was in January 1982 when we hit -27.2°C (-17°F).
Excellent video. I'm planning on installing mini splits in my house next year. I only have electric heat so at the moment I'm learning.
Thank you!
Great job! Thank you
awesome detailed vid -- thanks!!!
Very interesting series. Looking forward to the rest of the how-to part of it...........
I love this video. Please next time include conversion to celcius. You will gain lots of subscribers from the rest of the world by doing this.
Very nice explanation and visual!
Thanks!
Thank you for the breakdown.
Where did you get the data sheet from 14:10 ?
Excellent explanations
Those work great for places like Seattle, we spend most of the winter with rain around 38-42 degrees. Maybe 1 week or less with snow on the ground and even then it's in the 20s.
Ben. What an Excellent and informative class. Well done and thanks from Florida ps you can wear shorts here
Well done vid, Ben. Unlike your tropical southern Minnesota temperatures, I had -33F yesterday morning as I cruised by the Mississippi River. I think the standard heat pump(non-minisplit) units that most HVAC guys install have a cut off temp that hovers in the 20F range. This mini-split unit would be a good option for those over garage bonus rooms that tend to be outfitted with baseboard electric.
My Trane regular split system works down to -7F according to Trane's documentation. It's never been that cold here.
Oh ya betcha! What heat source do you have in your bonus room?
@@BenjaminSahlstrom I have a 5Kw electric that keeps my bonus room warm, plus I do have a single flex duct from my furnace that pushes some heat. The 5Kw unit is on my off peak panel, so I get the cheaper rate at $0.0672 per Kwh. Same with my heat pump, slab heat boiler, and plenum heater...it's on the off peak controlled panel, so I'm seeing the propane furnace kicking on frequently during this arctic cold snap as the power company is controlling the panel fairly frequently. I've been supplementing with my cast iron Jotul wood burning unit that sits in my living room...nothing like a fire crackling away when the air gets brisk outside.
i prefer burning money. its 100% efficient at turning your money into heat
@@brianleeper5737 Is your train a single stage, dual stage, or continuously variable inverter unit?
Also have to figure in duct loses as well with a traditional split system
Thanks for the video. My generation had to deal with "early" models in the 70's & 80's. They were terrible and made me really wary to get back into type of HVAC system.
Here is W TX inverter heat pumps work well, especially if you oversize. Problems with oversize don't exist here in summer as our humidity is nil. We can upsize by 50% without issue and have heat down to the lowest it gets to be here in winter. These work great.
Excellent! Thanks.
At 3:10 is a perfect example of thermal bridging
Thank you for the hard work you put into your videos. You really helped me have a better understanding of how they work. I'm in the process of deciding if I should replace my old central AC or install mini splits. Would you recommend a 3 zone CH unit? Wondering if one head unit stops working do you need to replace the whole thing? Thank you again. I really enjoy your material.
Highly recommend you research the fan noise, from the condenser placement and room units. That, to me, is one of the bigger drawbacks.
Well explained
Heat pumps spend more time in defrost when the outdoor temperature ranges from 47F to the mid 20’s especially rainy/snowy/freezing rain miserable days. For best results try to install the outdoor unit where it’s protected from the wind...use evergreen shrubs or decorative barriers at least four feet away from the unit. Lengthy defrost cycles dramatically reduce efficiency.
Good tips.
@@BenjaminSahlstrom All good tips my installers neglected to mention when I asked for quotes. I certainly feel most of the installers in my area are singularly focused on getting paid. I even asked about putting the external units under my deck and they poo-pooed the idea. Many also wanted to hang the units right off the exterior wall behind my living room which I understand often creates annoying vibration.
Wouldn't more wind be GOOD? I has a fan in it. The objective is to equalize the coils with the ambient temperature, that's what the fan helps to do. Wouldn't wind help do that?
@@Chris-ie9os until the wind carries rain/sleet/snow into the unit lol
@@bryanjk If it's elevated that shouldn't matter... it can't accumulate. Mine is ~8' off the ground.
Great video and really helpful. I will be using a mini split for my shop (16x24 insulated garage). We are on propane which I knew would be much more expensive to run vs the mini
Exactly. It is great to have the backup option of propane available though. I am going to install a vent free LP heater in the coming days for that purpose.
8:45 wish I've seen when this came out. to simplify, you need more than 2 COP to make it worth while for a heat pump. even simpler, a heat pump is not worth it unless you're going to use its cooling/cold operation. consider the installation cost and heatpumps/ACs don't last as long as gas heaters
Great video. And you are correct and accurate, however; respectfully, I debate that compression of refrigerant is "creating" most of the heat being used. There's so much to be said about how heat is transfered that it's hard for people to wrap their head around, so scripting your video to be easy to understand was a good call. I think we can agree that "temperature" is a construct developed to more easily understand the release and transfer of energy. I'm impressed how far things have come since wet blankets and ice boxes
Excellent Video!!! Thank you!
Probably adding insulation to lines would be good idea
I will be moving to the Twin Cities soon. No central cooling in the house. Radiator heat so retro-fitting ducting isn't smart. I was thinking mini-splits in the two upstairs bedrooms would be the way to go. Nice to know that these hyper heat systems exist.
As a hvac tech of 18 years I’ll tell you that I love ductless splits, they break down all the time and I make tons of money off them.. I’ll take ductwork and natural gas any day , refrigerant leaks are so common with ductless due to stupid flare fittings also control boards , blower motors and condensate leaks are always inevitable
As an HVAC tech myself (in Canada)I have a different opinion. I have installed many of these or even conventional forced air heat pump. Most of the units I have installed have worked without issue for years.
The splits go well into country home renovations that used to use straight base boards or wood fire stoves. No duct work available for retrofits.
They also work well in the city were folks have tuned attics into living space or mad add one in the form of sun rooms, which also have no ducts.
I always wondered why people cite failures on heat pumps that can also be found on ACs or gas fired furnaces. Boards on furnaces? Yes. Blower motors on forced air? Yes. Refrigerant leaks on ACs? Yes. If your flares are giving you a hard time I would recommend follow torque specs and using a small amount of sealant/lubricant. Use a good tool and make a nice flares. Will some leak? Of course but boy is it easy to find when the flare does leak. Reclaim the remaining r410a. Redoflare. Vacuum. Weigh in charge. Done. But this is a small.percentage.
Moral of the story. Proper Installation practice in proper application these units are great.
I just replaced a top of the line carrier nat gas furnace that only lasted a few months over the warranty of 10 years because it was more expensive to fix it AGAIN, rather than replace the whole thing.
Yea, well my forced air furnace igniter failed almost yearly on the worst day possible. My splits are flawless….
Great video. Best one I have seen. Been looking at moving to northern ID. Will build an ICF house. The prevalent push from what I have read is radiant hydronic floor heating coupled to a boiler. Once I got away from the marketing, I started finding folks that are heating 3600SF tight homes with two minis. They have backup systems with a different heat source for redundancy and diversity. Thank you for the COP.
hi Ben
I live in Minnesota too, wondering which manufacturer you recommend for heating. Cooper hunter vs Mitsubishi?
Thank you!
Smart guy . I m going to replace my central ac next week . So i was looking for information about heat pump . how it works in in our Minnesota's winter . To me looks like paying upfront for heat pump wont return in savings . May be later more and more advenced technologyes will be able to heat house in extreme winter.
I sell them for a living. If you currently have a furnace, keep it.