Another surprise from Steinberg. Waves vst3 will be broken if you add plugin with 4 or more channels in Reaper. It's actually very common bug with AAA developers like Plugin Alliance. But the worst thing that you cannot organize folders for vst3 - it's installed in the default folder.
So now a lot of people will have to find a different DAW, because Steinberg cannot force me to lose the value of my excellent VST2 plugins. Any recommendations for a different DAW?
@@audiotoolshed Steinberg new ToS is scaring developers imo, at least with vst2 they were more laxed with their clauses because they probably didn't know it would've done so well, seeing how much profit and market share they missed out on they're out for blood.
you have probably read some outdated forum posts about that vst3 midi thing. steinberg actually gave in to the request for vst3 plugins to handle midi around 2 years ago. now vst3 has almost all the features it needs. the problem to me personally is just that a lot of old plugins will not get an update because no one knows where the developer went, but we just love them, so we want them, right? also there are still a lot of hosts that can't load vst3 yet. mostly hosts where loading vst plugins is not a main feature, like the popular tool to screencap stuff on windows, OBS
Weird, I got the info from a very informed source. Will keep an eye on that, if it’s wrong I’ll cut it out. Agree with the old plugins. Ohmforce Ohmicide is one of them.
@@audiotoolshed ok? i hope i didn't misunderstand anything about this issue. i don't care a lot about midi out features myself, but i know some people who almost exclusively make midi plugins
Mt favourite Guitar plugin is still Virtual Guitarist 2 (by Steinberg) it's just amazing and I cannot live without it, (among some other oldies) If it can be wrapped flawlessly than fine, if not, I am not upgrading. My workflow will be totally killed if i cannot use my staple and trusted VSTs. I love to stay up to date with every upgrade so as to have the latest goodies and functions, but I will sacrifice it all for my VSTs.
Hello! What I don't understand is if, outside of Cubase, other DAWs (such as Studio One, REaper, etc.) will be able to continue allowing the use of old VST2 plugins, or if there will be some kind of "legal" impediment so they won't be able to do it either. Thanks!
Well Cubase 12 still supports vst2 right now. As soon as the vst2 development is outdated enough, other manufacturers will drop it as well I think. There's no legal impediment, vst is basically a sort of open source project. I have already seen a bunch of plugin developers dropping vst2 in favor of vst3 alone.
I have MANY plugins that I still use that are VST2 only, and that will never be updated because the company that developed them no longer exists, or the product has been long since abandoned. Quite a few of these are actually made by Steinberg themselves!!! They still have VST2-only plugins for download on their website! I doubt they will ever be updated to VST3. On top of this, there are quite a few plugins that I use that were created by developers using a common open-source framework that itself has never been updated from VST2, and likely won't ever be. So even if those developers wanted to release VST3 versions, they can't. I'm strongly considering skipping the Cubase 12 upgrade specifically because of this. Perhaps someone will decide to build a VST3 wrapper for VST2 plugins, kind of like how JBridge works for 32 bit VST's.
Blue Cat's patchwork can load vst in a vst3 shell. But it remains to be seen if that will be possible in the future as well. And cubase 12 will probably install next to cubase 11, so you can use both. Has been like this in the past as well.
Hi Marlon...!!! one quick question!!!when steinberg says no more vst2 does this mean vst 2.4 also...??i have zero vst 2 plugins..but i do have a few vst 2.4..
So I don't know if other Cubase users, or other VST3 users, have this problem with MIDI. Using Slate Trigger 2 VST3 with MIDI does not work properly. I would send MIDI to Trigger 2 on an audio track, but it won't actually trigger, or it would stop triggering at some point. The VST2 version works just fine.
@@audiotoolshed Komplete Kontrol and Maschine still don’t officially host VST3. NI are just now working slightly faster at releasing VST3 versions of first-party plugins like Kontakt, Massive and Super 8. It’s slow going. Pain in the ass for those deep into NIs ecosphere like myself.
that IS slow, especially for a big company like NI. But i wonder how complicated the kontrol integration is in VST3. I have a simple komplete keyboard with kontrol and I never checked which plugin version is used tbh.
@@audiotoolshed Akai MPC is the same thing. Still no VST3 support! I really prefer using MPC so it's annoying that I can't use the newest VST's for it.
@@audiotoolshed for me it's bad cause I have a ssd for operational system and a harddrive for the others stuff. I always like vst2 cause almost always in installation they give option of where install the plugin, so I can choose the harddrive.
Discontinuing is something, but Steinberg simple disappeared with VST2 traces... I at least i still have the SDK, but i still have to meet someone that agreed with what they have done. I thought that was just sad...
Very nice video. thank you for that. Well ther you have it again. First i had to ditch 32bit plugins (some of which i really liked) and used 32lives (the wrapper app) and now i cant even use this in Big Sur. And now the same will happen for all Vst2 that don`t make it into Vst 3. I really dont get it. Why you can have an emulation of arcade games of the 80`s but cant make older plugins work forever in a simulation environment. I don`t know the tech behind it but i can hardly imagine its not possible if people really wanted it to work.
@@audiotoolshed well thats hard after a point. Cause that means "never buy apple silicon" basically as you cannot install an OS on them that supports 32bit while on Intel machines you can . But that means not update your hardware too. And thats an actually bummer
I think you should update once in a while. For sure. Just pointing out that if you have a curent working setup and want that and nothing more, there's is no need to update. Apple is king in the '' never update'', because a lot of stuff get's broken with them after every os update. Apple silicon plugin updates still havent been rounded off by a lot of plugin companies. Still in de=velopment. Apple OS is already progressed 1 version in th emeantime, with its own support issues.
@@audiotoolshed i hear ya. I bought an m1 recently, used it (before ableton native version came out) , realized how much stuff does not work. Sold the m1 after 1 week of using it, bought an 16 inch intel mbp :-) will wait a bit longer till i jump to m1. As to your „if you want nothing more“ well there is „nothing more“ than a bit of cpu gain in it for me and not some „only with m1 can you do this and that“ scenario . Its not like i am gonna die if i dont do anything at all tbh. To me it would be much more attractive to offer me a laptop with twice the cpu but being able to keep my current setup 100% as it is.
I don't get the whole sidechaining-issue. Is Reaper that advanced in comparison to other DAWs? Sidechaining in Reaper has never been an issue with VST2. Perhaps it is because Reaper offers you up to 64 audio channels per track. 🤷♂️ Thats why I always preferred VST2.
Can you explain to me how you achieve sidechain compression on stereo audio with vst2 where you will have a sidechain input and stereo output withing a plugin, without using a parallel mono setup?
Release Notes Cubase 12: - "### Due to technical reasons the following plug-ins and technologies have been removed from the product scope VST instruments: Mystic, Prologue, Specter, LoopMash are no longer included in the factory content of Cubase."
Steinberg could have kept the VST3 as a Cubase only format. From what I have heard from developers, the codecase isn't considered "clean". It includes unnecessary parts from Steinberg's hosts. Sidechain has worked fine in 3rd party hosts that supported more input pairs. They had to pull a copyright card to force everyone to stop developing VST2.
Soundtoys is the only thing I'm worrying about. I paid for them and they are not exactly big on updates. People cry for oversampling and vst3 since half a decade. Seems like the only thing ST actually does these days is launch sale campaigns a few times a year
The vst2 dedicated SDK isnt available anymore. So thos ewho have that are in luck. That SDK is not being updated anymore. But i believe that in vst3 sdk a vst2 wrapper is included, that would still mean developing from within vst3.
Another surprise from Steinberg. Waves vst3 will be broken if you add plugin with 4 or more channels in Reaper. It's actually very common bug with AAA developers like Plugin Alliance. But the worst thing that you cannot organize folders for vst3 - it's installed in the default folder.
True vst3 is in the default folder. What exactly do you mean with adding a plugin with 4 or more channels? At the same time?
@@audiotoolshed just insert any plugin with 4/2 configuration (for sidechain purposes) afer waves vst3 compressor - boom, waves stops compressing the signal.
Isn’t that a reaper issue then?
@@audiotoolshed True, but WITHIN the default vst3 folder you can create all the folders you want. Which, in my case at least, is good enough.
Not true, you can copy the vst3 to any folder you want
So now a lot of people will have to find a different DAW, because Steinberg cannot force me to lose the value of my excellent VST2 plugins. Any recommendations for a different DAW?
You don’t need to update to a future version. So you won’t lose your vst2s
Exactly, years of hard work accumulating and creating the perfect tool box, are they crazy?
vst has been around since 2008, you can also wonder why it took so long for developers to fully adapt to that standard.
@@audiotoolshed Steinberg new ToS is scaring developers imo, at least with vst2 they were more laxed with their clauses because they probably didn't know it would've done so well, seeing how much profit and market share they missed out on they're out for blood.
This is finally possible in all DAWs! th-cam.com/video/K8k4PqNYWh8/w-d-xo.html
What does the cancelling of vst mean for you?
you have probably read some outdated forum posts about that vst3 midi thing. steinberg actually gave in to the request for vst3 plugins to handle midi around 2 years ago. now vst3 has almost all the features it needs. the problem to me personally is just that a lot of old plugins will not get an update because no one knows where the developer went, but we just love them, so we want them, right? also there are still a lot of hosts that can't load vst3 yet. mostly hosts where loading vst plugins is not a main feature, like the popular tool to screencap stuff on windows, OBS
Weird, I got the info from a very informed source. Will keep an eye on that, if it’s wrong I’ll cut it out.
Agree with the old plugins. Ohmforce Ohmicide is one of them.
@@audiotoolshed ok? i hope i didn't misunderstand anything about this issue. i don't care a lot about midi out features myself, but i know some people who almost exclusively make midi plugins
That's why I run my studio with hardware...you can't cancel that and it sounds better.
One way to do it
Mt favourite Guitar plugin is still Virtual Guitarist 2 (by Steinberg) it's just amazing and I cannot live without it, (among some other oldies) If it can be wrapped flawlessly than fine, if not, I am not upgrading. My workflow will be totally killed if i cannot use my staple and trusted VSTs. I love to stay up to date with every upgrade so as to have the latest goodies and functions, but I will sacrifice it all for my VSTs.
you would say that vst2>vst3 wrappers would continue to work. But that is something which time will tell. For now i would say yes.
Hello! What I don't understand is if, outside of Cubase, other DAWs (such as Studio One, REaper, etc.) will be able to continue allowing the use of old VST2 plugins, or if there will be some kind of "legal" impediment so they won't be able to do it either. Thanks!
Well Cubase 12 still supports vst2 right now. As soon as the vst2 development is outdated enough, other manufacturers will drop it as well I think.
There's no legal impediment, vst is basically a sort of open source project.
I have already seen a bunch of plugin developers dropping vst2 in favor of vst3 alone.
I have MANY plugins that I still use that are VST2 only, and that will never be updated because the company that developed them no longer exists, or the product has been long since abandoned. Quite a few of these are actually made by Steinberg themselves!!! They still have VST2-only plugins for download on their website! I doubt they will ever be updated to VST3.
On top of this, there are quite a few plugins that I use that were created by developers using a common open-source framework that itself has never been updated from VST2, and likely won't ever be. So even if those developers wanted to release VST3 versions, they can't.
I'm strongly considering skipping the Cubase 12 upgrade specifically because of this. Perhaps someone will decide to build a VST3 wrapper for VST2 plugins, kind of like how JBridge works for 32 bit VST's.
Blue Cat's patchwork can load vst in a vst3 shell. But it remains to be seen if that will be possible in the future as well.
And cubase 12 will probably install next to cubase 11, so you can use both. Has been like this in the past as well.
@@audiotoolshed Definitely cubase 11 works alongside 12 fine.
I hav all plugins as either VST or VST3 and have never seen VST2.... what am I missing to this story?
You probably have vst 2 plugins. Vst1 has been shelved a loooong time ago.
@@audiotoolshed So the folder called "VST" is really "VST2"?! I always wondered why they jumped over VST2 :D :D :D
Exactly ;-) you're probaly on vst2.4 even
Hi Marlon...!!!
one quick question!!!when steinberg says no more vst2 does this mean vst 2.4 also...??i have zero vst 2 plugins..but i do have a few vst 2.4..
Yes vst 2.4 as well, everything from that generation.
@@audiotoolshed ok..that was good to know...thanks for the reply Marlon!!!!
You're welcome!
This was educational
That was my intention, so many thanks!
So I don't know if other Cubase users, or other VST3 users, have this problem with MIDI. Using Slate Trigger 2 VST3 with MIDI does not work properly. I would send MIDI to Trigger 2 on an audio track, but it won't actually trigger, or it would stop triggering at some point. The VST2 version works just fine.
I don’t have it. Is it only happening in cubase or any other vst daw as well?
I need Komplete Kontrol (and Maschine) to properly work with VST3. Plugins like Dawesome Abyss, Reason Rack etc need it. Growing pains.
what are the issues you encounter?
@@audiotoolshed Komplete Kontrol and Maschine still don’t officially host VST3. NI are just now working slightly faster at releasing VST3 versions of first-party plugins like Kontakt, Massive and Super 8. It’s slow going. Pain in the ass for those deep into NIs ecosphere like myself.
that IS slow, especially for a big company like NI. But i wonder how complicated the kontrol integration is in VST3. I have a simple komplete keyboard with kontrol and I never checked which plugin version is used tbh.
@@audiotoolshed Akai MPC is the same thing. Still no VST3 support! I really prefer using MPC so it's annoying that I can't use the newest VST's for it.
Two words: Universal Audio.
One word: RME?
@@audiotoolshed I'm referring to the fact that UA plugins are VST2 and I'm not even sure if their architecture will allow them to go VST3
Ah ok. Yeah. I think its weird that a company like UA still doesnt have vst3. But then, maybe most of their users use AU or AAX.
Bro your music in the background is too loud
Bro we all love music don’t we
Vst3 is a nightmare to organise in folder terms.
Why?
Indeed why? It’s installed all in one folder in the hdd. In your daw it is organised by type or vendor.
@@audiotoolshed for me it's bad cause I have a ssd for operational system and a harddrive for the others stuff. I always like vst2 cause almost always in installation they give option of where install the plugin, so I can choose the harddrive.
@@audiotoolshed I organise my plugins in a very specific way. It's My software I would like to organise according to MY needs.
@@thlLd yes, also this.
Thank you for that
thanks you for watching!,
Discontinuing is something, but Steinberg simple disappeared with VST2 traces... I at least i still have the SDK, but i still have to meet someone that agreed with what they have done. I thought that was just sad...
It would have been nice if Steinberg released the vst2 sdk as public domain since they discontinuined it.
No ui mode duh ?!
Very nice video. thank you for that.
Well ther you have it again. First i had to ditch 32bit plugins (some of which i really liked) and used 32lives (the wrapper app) and now i cant even use this in Big Sur.
And now the same will happen for all Vst2 that don`t make it into Vst 3. I really dont get it. Why you can have an emulation of arcade games of the 80`s but cant make older plugins work forever in a simulation environment. I don`t know the tech behind it but i can hardly imagine its not possible if people really wanted it to work.
Yeah well, if you want to stay with a current working setup, never update. I can only hope that vst2 to vst3 wrapper will keep excisting.
@@audiotoolshed well thats hard after a point. Cause that means "never buy apple silicon" basically as you cannot install an OS on them that supports 32bit while on Intel machines you can . But that means not update your hardware too. And thats an actually bummer
I think you should update once in a while. For sure. Just pointing out that if you have a curent working setup and want that and nothing more, there's is no need to update.
Apple is king in the '' never update'', because a lot of stuff get's broken with them after every os update. Apple silicon plugin updates still havent been rounded off by a lot of plugin companies. Still in de=velopment. Apple OS is already progressed 1 version in th emeantime, with its own support issues.
@@audiotoolshed i hear ya. I bought an m1 recently, used it (before ableton native version came out) , realized how much stuff does not work. Sold the m1 after 1 week of using it, bought an 16 inch intel mbp :-) will wait a bit longer till i jump to m1. As to your „if you want nothing more“ well there is „nothing more“ than a bit of cpu gain in it for me and not some „only with m1 can you do this and that“ scenario . Its not like i am gonna die if i dont do anything at all tbh. To me it would be much more attractive to offer me a laptop with twice the cpu but being able to keep my current setup 100% as it is.
Did this ever happen?
It still hasn't! #weird
Anonymous appearance! :D
Who?
@@audiotoolshed th-cam.com/channels/JrGShLOmz-phU2reIul_GA.html
Yeah those one appeared ^^ And also hacked everyone's computer when watching this video.
why though???
Progress and I guess the vst2 sdk has reached it’s limit.
It's a SHAME because i use ArtAcoustics reverb VST2 format, now what i do ?
If it still works, it works.
I don't get the whole sidechaining-issue. Is Reaper that advanced in comparison to other DAWs? Sidechaining in Reaper has never been an issue with VST2. Perhaps it is because Reaper offers you up to 64 audio channels per track. 🤷♂️ Thats why I always preferred VST2.
Can you explain to me how you achieve sidechain compression on stereo audio with vst2 where you will have a sidechain input and stereo output withing a plugin, without using a parallel mono setup?
Release Notes Cubase 12:
- "### Due to technical reasons the following plug-ins and technologies have been removed from the product scope
VST instruments: Mystic, Prologue, Specter, LoopMash are no longer included in the factory content of Cubase."
Yup. See my reply at the cubase 12 video.
Very nice topic!!!!
Thanks!!!!!!
Steinberg could have kept the VST3 as a Cubase only format. From what I have heard from developers, the codecase isn't considered "clean". It includes unnecessary parts from Steinberg's hosts. Sidechain has worked fine in 3rd party hosts that supported more input pairs. They had to pull a copyright card to force everyone to stop developing VST2.
Honestly, most of what I use now is VST3 and I really prefer to install VST3 only for the sake of reducing clutter.
Same here. I stopped using vst2 a long time ago, with some exceptions like those soundtoys plugins.
@@audiotoolshed guys how you sort vst3's? I have almost 200 plugins. Without folders it's a mess
@@andivax You can freely create folders WITHIN the vst3 folder.
I don’t sort because what is the use? It’s all within 1 folder anyway. Samples etc are on their own disc. I sort plug-in by type in my DAW if needed.
Soundtoys is the only thing I'm worrying about. I paid for them and they are not exactly big on updates. People cry for oversampling and vst3 since half a decade. Seems like the only thing ST actually does these days is launch sale campaigns a few times a year
If ain't broken don't fix it
for sure
How much do you think UAD cares about this?
when vst2 isn’t supported on more DAWs they will start to care. But my guess is that most users are on Mac and use either aax or au there.
Nothing new in some way☝️
Dont complaining fellas
We create the future,
change is a part of the future
agree!
won't developers still have the VST2 SDK though? They could still develop VST2 plugins its just that VST2 won't be updated anymore?
The vst2 dedicated SDK isnt available anymore. So thos ewho have that are in luck. That SDK is not being updated anymore. But i believe that in vst3 sdk a vst2 wrapper is included, that would still mean developing from within vst3.