Hiring Kyle the Ally was one of the best decisions that we've made as recording artists. He is smart, trustworthy, and great. He will really help artists who bring him on board. Strongly recommend.
Thank you @wavesonwavesmusic for your kind works! Working with you has likewise been a pleasure. I'm looking forward to nurturing a long term partnership between us!
@BladesOfFreedom the exact amount I quote a client depends on your exact needs and goals. If you would like to open the conversation on how we can work together, I encourage you to submit an inquiry through the Contact Me form on my website and I will happily get in touch if it looks like a good fit: kyletheally.com/contact/
Excellent work, I really appreciate the scientific methodology. One could argue that as a consumer, it's not exactly the same to follow a playlist rather than an album, but that seems to be the best possible approach for your experiment, and the differences between ToneDen and the other two is still pretty convincing. What I like with your statistical analysis is that we don't even need to know the cause(s) of these performance differences to be confident with the conclusion (although I'd love to know why ToneDen would be so behind!). Thanks Andrew for bringing me here ;)
I'm very happy you enjoyed my analysis. I agree that saving this one-song "playlist" is not 100% the same action as saving a song, but it's as close as we can get to replicating that action.
My best hypothesis as to why ToneDen lags behind the others is that it uses the Facebook Ads standard "View Content" conversion event, rather than a custom conversion like Hypeddit and FFM. I surmise that using a standard conversion for TD leads the Facebook Ads manager to have an initial guess at how to optimize for this conversion that may in fact not be ideal for the type of marketing we are dong here. Just my best educated guess based on observation and not yet backed by hard data.
From your results were you able to see which company meta was able to collect data from more accurately ? I use feature fm and usually I will see a higher amount of conversion on feature fm metrics vs what I see in meta ads metrics
Hello, thank you very much for all the information you offer. I didn't know the page, it's really very good. I wanted to ask you, I'm going to start publishing from toneden, because I'm just starting, how do I do it? Do I have to configure the landing page in toneden and then publish to Facebook ads? I get lost in why Toneden proposes me to do like a campaign with segmentation and all that and then I have to do the same in Facebook Ads. I hope you understand, because I'm a little lost, thank you very much, the channel is very valuable
Interesting work, I'm curious about how would this develop if the algorythm had more time to learn and settle. How long do you think is the minimum amount of time for an ad to run in order to maximize its algorythmic potencial?
I generally recommend running a campaign continuously for at least 2-4 weeks if you want to build enough momentum to be in contention for algorithmic placement.
No that is not usual. At the moment, I'm unusually busy and at capacity with projects. I'm prioritizing my current client engagements and will get beck to you as soon as I can. Thank you in advance for your patience.
Interesting experiments. Thanks for sharing. May i ask did you also compared how many conversions made from which country? Im asking since 1 US follower can not be lower performance than 3 conversions from third-tier countries. Anyway, thank you very much.
I started with a list of countries that were of interest for the test, but beyond that, I wasn't interested in examining conversions by country. A lot of times when you split your budget across several countries, especially with a budget this small, you get < 10 conversions in each country, which makes it hard to get a statistically meaningful comparison.
correct if im wrong, im just trying to also understand here. but how did you & what's the point of calculating a Confidence Interval for the followers, since there are no values for them? to even come up with the St. Deviation, you need values from the population (like I measured my weight 100 times and I got 100 different values, while followers are a Yes/No stat), then subtract the population mean from each, and square them ^2 🤔🤔🤔 i appreciate the data collection here, and the CPC calculations, just lost u with the statistical significance for Followers
Great question. I calculated a standard deviation based off of the number of followers gained each day for each playlist. So, for a test running for 2 weeks, each playlist has 14 data points. Then, I use those standard deviation sto calculate the confidence intervals shown here. Let's say you had a playlist that gained exactly 50 followers per day. In this case, the standard deviation is zero and you can predict the number of followers on any given day with very high confidence. On the other hand, if your playlist randomly gets between 0 and 100 new followers per day, you have a high standard deviation and a lot less confidence in predicting the number of followers on any given day.
Excluding audiences is not something I typically do. In my experience, it is better to err on the side of your audience being too large/broad than too specific.
Kyle, thanks for the content. How do you actually explain this difference from a technical side? It looks like people land on the same page eventually (Spotify App) no matter what service is being used. Do you think Meta keeps targeting the same people while using Toneden vs other landing pages? Or maybe Toneden doesn't work well with redirecting people to Spotify? Would love to know your thoughts. Thanks
My best educated guess as to why ToneDen underperforms relative to the others is that TD uses the "View Content" standard conversion event that's built into Facebook Ads manager, while Hypeddit and FeatureFM use custom conversions. I think using the built-in View Content conversion starts the Facebook Ads manager with a prior idea on how to optimize for this event that is not in fact ideal for the kind of marketing we do. This is of course just my best guess based on observations and not based on hard data like the conclusion in this video.
@@kyle_the_ally good explanation.. what if a toneden link works differently? very often (especially with driving people to playlists) it generates a Spotify link that doesn’t open the App directly, opening a pop up browser instead. did all of the landing pages open the App correctly on both iOS and Android?
How did you set up your conversions? I have the code and pixel on hypeddit, but it isn't showing conversions on Facebook. I do see them on Hypeddit link stats though. But I want to make sure that facebook optimizes properly and send me the correct ppl.
I used the vanilla "Hypeddit Smart Link Click" conversion. Setting it up is as simple as embedding the pixel in the landing page, triggering the event, and waiting 20-30 minute and it should show up on the first page in Events Manager (go to Data Sources -> Overview). If it doesn't appear here after 30 minutes, make sure you don't have a blacklist/whitelist of domains blocking Hypeddit from sending data. If it DOES show up in Events Manager but you can't select it as a conversion in Ads Manager, mage sure you add your ad account as an asset on your pixel - they have to be connected to work together. Hope this helps you work it out!
@@kyle_the_ally That’s what I did. But it didn’t work. I noticed that a different pixel I setup the same way worked. I think the difference is that on the second one I used the Event Setup Tool. I went back and used it for the first pixel so I’ll see if it makes a difference soon. Thanks!
Have you ever heard the expression, "the shoemaker's wife is always the last to get shoes?" I don't have the time or resources to continuously promote my own music, and I haven't done so in more than a year. However, I am happy to point you to some of my recent clients if you are curious to see examples that better reflect my capability as a marketer.
Honestly, you’ve invested 210 $ and the track has around 45k streams. So, please explain me, why you invest more money for advertisements as your income will be? That makes absolutely no sense to me, sorry. But feel free to explain to me, I like to learn things day by day a lot!
Every artist finds value in these metrics in different ways, and it's almost never about the direct payout from the streams. These numbers can be valuable for helping artists monetize their music in other ways such as booking live shows, selling merch, etc. The value here of course was the information i learned from the experiment itself, not the streaming revenue. And it also is worth pointing out, I didn't say this was a particularly well-performing campaign: the campaigns were set up in a way that best supported the experiment, not necessarily optimized for best performance (max streaming output).
Sure. Please fill out the Contact Me form on my website and if it looks like working together will be a good fit, I will get in touch with you: kyletheally.com/contact/
Hiring Kyle the Ally was one of the best decisions that we've made as recording artists. He is smart, trustworthy, and great. He will really help artists who bring him on board. Strongly recommend.
what are the prices?
Thank you @wavesonwavesmusic for your kind works! Working with you has likewise been a pleasure. I'm looking forward to nurturing a long term partnership between us!
@BladesOfFreedom the exact amount I quote a client depends on your exact needs and goals. If you would like to open the conversation on how we can work together, I encourage you to submit an inquiry through the Contact Me form on my website and I will happily get in touch if it looks like a good fit: kyletheally.com/contact/
Excellent work, I really appreciate the scientific methodology. One could argue that as a consumer, it's not exactly the same to follow a playlist rather than an album, but that seems to be the best possible approach for your experiment, and the differences between ToneDen and the other two is still pretty convincing. What I like with your statistical analysis is that we don't even need to know the cause(s) of these performance differences to be confident with the conclusion (although I'd love to know why ToneDen would be so behind!). Thanks Andrew for bringing me here ;)
I'm very happy you enjoyed my analysis. I agree that saving this one-song "playlist" is not 100% the same action as saving a song, but it's as close as we can get to replicating that action.
My best hypothesis as to why ToneDen lags behind the others is that it uses the Facebook Ads standard "View Content" conversion event, rather than a custom conversion like Hypeddit and FFM. I surmise that using a standard conversion for TD leads the Facebook Ads manager to have an initial guess at how to optimize for this conversion that may in fact not be ideal for the type of marketing we are dong here. Just my best educated guess based on observation and not yet backed by hard data.
@@kyle_the_ally That's a pretty legit guess!
Thanks! Consulting is all about being able to make solid informed guesses even if you have incomplete information :)
Well done Kyle, Andrew served up a good introduction to you. Keep it up! This test was impressive. well done
There is more on the way! Stay tuned!
From your results were you able to see which company meta was able to collect data from more accurately ? I use feature fm and usually I will see a higher amount of conversion on feature fm metrics vs what I see in meta ads metrics
Gee Willickers, such a great in depth video. Subbed!!!
Thanks for the sub! I'm glad to have you along for the ride!
Thanks for doing such a detailed test!
Thanks for the video bro! Very detailed and very good information!
Very nice breakdown thanks Kyle.
You're welcome! Glad you enjoyed!
This was a cool experiment. 🙌 nicely done !
Hello, thank you very much for all the information you offer. I didn't know the page, it's really very good. I wanted to ask you, I'm going to start publishing from toneden, because I'm just starting, how do I do it? Do I have to configure the landing page in toneden and then publish to Facebook ads?
I get lost in why Toneden proposes me to do like a campaign with segmentation and all that and then I have to do the same in Facebook Ads. I hope you understand, because I'm a little lost, thank you very much, the channel is very valuable
Hi! Why do I need a landing page in between rather than taking customers directly to Spotify?
Great question - sounds like you should tune in for the new video I have coming out this Friday which will explain why ;)
Oh that's great - many thanks Kyle
awesome vid
Interesting work, I'm curious about how would this develop if the algorythm had more time to learn and settle. How long do you think is the minimum amount of time for an ad to run in order to maximize its algorythmic potencial?
I generally recommend running a campaign continuously for at least 2-4 weeks if you want to build enough momentum to be in contention for algorithmic placement.
@@kyle_the_ally thank you!
what an insightful and nerdy breakdown, thanks man, going with hypeddit
Really channeled my inner Jimmy Neutron for this one 🤓
BTW the music is pretty cool too!
Thanks haha I'm glad you enjoy it!
Q - does it usually take over a week for a reply (on your website)? I filled out the form last week..
No that is not usual. At the moment, I'm unusually busy and at capacity with projects. I'm prioritizing my current client engagements and will get beck to you as soon as I can. Thank you in advance for your patience.
Interesting experiments. Thanks for sharing. May i ask did you also compared how many conversions made from which country? Im asking since 1 US follower can not be lower performance than 3 conversions from third-tier countries. Anyway, thank you very much.
I started with a list of countries that were of interest for the test, but beyond that, I wasn't interested in examining conversions by country. A lot of times when you split your budget across several countries, especially with a budget this small, you get < 10 conversions in each country, which makes it hard to get a statistically meaningful comparison.
correct if im wrong, im just trying to also understand here. but how did you & what's the point of calculating a Confidence Interval for the followers, since there are no values for them?
to even come up with the St. Deviation, you need values from the population (like I measured my weight 100 times and I got 100 different values, while followers are a Yes/No stat), then subtract the population mean from each, and square them ^2 🤔🤔🤔
i appreciate the data collection here, and the CPC calculations, just lost u with the statistical significance for Followers
Great question. I calculated a standard deviation based off of the number of followers gained each day for each playlist. So, for a test running for 2 weeks, each playlist has 14 data points. Then, I use those standard deviation sto calculate the confidence intervals shown here.
Let's say you had a playlist that gained exactly 50 followers per day. In this case, the standard deviation is zero and you can predict the number of followers on any given day with very high confidence. On the other hand, if your playlist randomly gets between 0 and 100 new followers per day, you have a high standard deviation and a lot less confidence in predicting the number of followers on any given day.
Super detailed. Great stuff. I was wondering if you exclude audiences for better results or if you think it will throttle results.
Excluding audiences is not something I typically do. In my experience, it is better to err on the side of your audience being too large/broad than too specific.
@@kyle_the_ally Appreciate that little nugget.
This is great great value, I am not surprised if you blow up in a month if you keep going! 🚀
Let's make it happen!
Very good nerdy mumbo jumbo.
It's what I specialize in :D
Kyle, thanks for the content. How do you actually explain this difference from a technical side? It looks like people land on the same page eventually (Spotify App) no matter what service is being used. Do you think Meta keeps targeting the same people while using Toneden vs other landing pages? Or maybe Toneden doesn't work well with redirecting people to Spotify? Would love to know your thoughts. Thanks
My best educated guess as to why ToneDen underperforms relative to the others is that TD uses the "View Content" standard conversion event that's built into Facebook Ads manager, while Hypeddit and FeatureFM use custom conversions. I think using the built-in View Content conversion starts the Facebook Ads manager with a prior idea on how to optimize for this event that is not in fact ideal for the kind of marketing we do. This is of course just my best guess based on observations and not based on hard data like the conclusion in this video.
@@kyle_the_ally good explanation.. what if a toneden link works differently? very often (especially with driving people to playlists) it generates a Spotify link that doesn’t open the App directly, opening a pop up browser instead. did all of the landing pages open the App correctly on both iOS and Android?
How did you set up your conversions? I have the code and pixel on hypeddit, but it isn't showing conversions on Facebook. I do see them on Hypeddit link stats though. But I want to make sure that facebook optimizes properly and send me the correct ppl.
I used the vanilla "Hypeddit Smart Link Click" conversion. Setting it up is as simple as embedding the pixel in the landing page, triggering the event, and waiting 20-30 minute and it should show up on the first page in Events Manager (go to Data Sources -> Overview). If it doesn't appear here after 30 minutes, make sure you don't have a blacklist/whitelist of domains blocking Hypeddit from sending data. If it DOES show up in Events Manager but you can't select it as a conversion in Ads Manager, mage sure you add your ad account as an asset on your pixel - they have to be connected to work together. Hope this helps you work it out!
@@kyle_the_ally That’s what I did. But it didn’t work. I noticed that a different pixel I setup the same way worked. I think the difference is that on the second one I used the Event Setup Tool. I went back and used it for the first pixel so I’ll see if it makes a difference soon. Thanks!
Kyle, what kind of a conversion event are you using for Toneden? Is it ViewContent or something else?
ToneDen landing pages used the View Content standard conversion.
@@kyle_the_ally thanks!
good vide Kyle
Kyle I want to run ads with you but I'm a bit disappointed by your spotify page, why numbers so low? Why don't u do campaigns for yourself ?
Have you ever heard the expression, "the shoemaker's wife is always the last to get shoes?" I don't have the time or resources to continuously promote my own music, and I haven't done so in more than a year. However, I am happy to point you to some of my recent clients if you are curious to see examples that better reflect my capability as a marketer.
woah awesome video!
Glad you enjoyed! Thanks for watching!
Honestly, you’ve invested 210 $ and the track has around 45k streams. So, please explain me, why you invest more money for advertisements as your income will be? That makes absolutely no sense to me, sorry. But feel free to explain to me, I like to learn things day by day a lot!
Every artist finds value in these metrics in different ways, and it's almost never about the direct payout from the streams. These numbers can be valuable for helping artists monetize their music in other ways such as booking live shows, selling merch, etc.
The value here of course was the information i learned from the experiment itself, not the streaming revenue. And it also is worth pointing out, I didn't say this was a particularly well-performing campaign: the campaigns were set up in a way that best supported the experiment, not necessarily optimized for best performance (max streaming output).
Nice
Thanks!
Can i edit Your TH-cam videos?
hey can you run ads for me?
Sure. Please fill out the Contact Me form on my website and if it looks like working together will be a good fit, I will get in touch with you: kyletheally.com/contact/
@@kyle_the_ally just did, thanks
"PromoSM"