Patio Pointing - Don't Use Resin Jointing Compound!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ต.ค. 2023
- The mistakes I've made pointing my patio with a resin mortar jointing compound.
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Charlie DIYte
-- Email: charliediyte@gmail.com
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#patio #resin #pointing - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
I used a resin jointing compound from a company called Pointfix Direct. 2 years on and not a single problem.
I did a lot of research beforehand and chose this one because you can use it on joints down to only 12mm deep.
Most other manufacturers insist on min 25mm deep joint which is impossible to achieve on many modern pavings due to the thicknesses.
This maybe a reason why many fail in the first place.
I have used Easyjoint many times and never had an issue.. you soak it, compress it with a small tuck pointer then brush over the top and rinse.
I think that's why it's important to buy the right stuff. A-Joint is different in that you don't soak it. You have to soak the ground instead.
Easyjoint is KING. -from Idaho USA!!
@@matthewmoore4310flow point is better
Lifted, cleaned, regraded and reset my own back slabs at the rear of the new house 3years ago. Photos to prove the job. Ended up ripping up a similar product out by hand with a chisel and when it started to crack after washing the back down with a standard hose gun…. resorted to using a sand and cement mix (4:1) with HFs waterproofer. I feel your pain fella but glad I did it before the rain would have inevitably destroyed all of my grading work too. I did however use a 3:1 building/plaster sand mix for a smooth but stronger finish.
VDW 850 worked well for me, and was easy enough for me as a DIYer. I used it for granite sets as manual pointing would've taken ages. I've pointed 4 patios with sand/cement - using plastering sand in 4:1 mix with tiny bit of SBR+. Still solid after 7 years and can take a pressure washer.
The *fewer* mistakes we make. Oh, the irony. A patio I did ages ago I just used dry cement without sand, and it grabbed enough moisture out of the air and ground to set very nicely, lasted for ages.
Are you going to take down or re-edit the other video? Most people don't watch shorts and the other video will show up on searches as how to do it.
Agreed, I’ve just chanced on this after bookmarking the other video as future possible solution
You legend, such a great repository of knowledge
Used Fow Point about 2 years ago with granite slabs, still looks as good as the day it was put down. Careful on a hot day on a large area, as it can start to go off quickly, think its better with two people. One putting on, another washing off and sharing the mixing between them.
Yes, I've heard good things about Flowpoint. Thanks for sharing 👊
My patio, paths, and block paved drive are all laid on pea shingles with no pointing. I think that was a condition of planning when the houses were built 4 years ago to let rainwater back into the soil. The only problem is weeds growing in the cracks. I spend a lot of money on Weedol!
All down to the customers I install hundreds of patios and sand cement is strongest but can stain is labour intensive and can’t do in rain
Also looks crap with kandlar grey we use tungsten from easyjoint it’s good product if u use it correctly at correct depth
Nice to see my comment, still haven't got around to sorting patio but come two-three weeks will be digging it out and using mortar with the admix. Will avoid any sweep over products.
Good luck sorting it 👌
Easy joint was great. Patio laid 5 years ago.
Easyjoint is the resin compound KING!!! HANDS DOWN
Brilliant advice. Thanks
Thanks 👊
Mine has been fine. It's absolutely rock hard.
I used wide gap bond it and pressed it well into the joints.
My builders used a product like this. It never set properly and lifted every time it rained. In the end I contracted some better builders who ground and pressure washed it out (was much easier to remove than they were expecting as it hadn't set even after 4 months) and replaced it with cement.
I use tiran nexus projoint or flowpoint depending on the type of flags I'm repointing
I've used a resin based jointing compound some years ago. Even after compacting in with a builders grouting tool and pointing tool and then sealing the whole area , over time I've found that the chemical composition breaks down with the outside elements of the weather. The product itself became like weetabix so be warned anyone wearing heels, holes would be punched through the joints and the jointing compound would fall out in chunks. I'm thinking of going back to using sand and cement 4 : 1 mix using a motar gun and the sealing the whole area.
Yep. No matter how good they say it is I'm afraid you sacrifice quality for ease of install. When I redo I'll be using 4:1 with waterproof admix to act as a plasticiser to help it through the gun. Will be very time consuming to do as the gun will keep clogging but worth doing properly.
I used that pre mixed resin stuff ( not identical) in between red bricks for my mowing strip. It only had about 20 mins working time, so I prepared well and got my sister involved. I never power washed it. I have it about 10 years. Only a tiny few weeds ever came up. I absolutely love this stuff !
Yes it's not for everyone, but I guess if it wasn't universally liked as you say, mainly for ease of application I guess, it wouldn't be sold in such large quantities.
After using all the products stated I prefer a traditional 4:1 plastering sand mix. Mix thoroughly with just enough water to bind into a ball then trowel and finish with a point trowel. Goes in pretty quickly with experience.
Spent alot on resin for joining by silka...didn't get on with it....ended with 4/1 dry mix sand a cement, brushed it in and hosed down
Yep. So wish I had done this. 👌
So we had an Indian sandstone patio laid 18 months ago and they used ProJoint Fusion All Weather Paving Joint Compound in buff. It went black in places a few months later so I recontacted the installers who insisted it was just dirt and would wash off. So we have got some off with a pressure washer but not all. It’s granular and not great. I contacted Nexus and sent pics but they were useless. Now we have a small hole in the middle letting in water. Can anyone recommend an effective way to seal the hole. We have washed the patio in preparation to seal it. We have not used a pressure washer again since the first time but used a patio cleaner which has helped. It’s the best we’ll get so now want to seal the hole and the patio. Thank you.
The best I can suggest Rosie is grinding or drilling out the area and filling it with a sand and cement mix - compacted with a tuck pointer. So frustrating isn't it. Wish I had used sand and cement although the area I did properly after the builders messed up the main patio is at least holding up for now.
A light sand cement mix “5 sharp, 1 silver, 1 cement”.. No water.. sweeping brush the mix into the joints.. hosepipe or watering can with a sprinkler attachment, lightly wet all joints.. or just leave it till it rains.. it’s as simple as that.. Iv never had a problem with anything Iv laid but there are many different products and methods out there.. Whichever floats ya goat 🐐 🤷🏻♂️😂
Nice one John. Yep, wish I'd used sand and cement. If I had my time again I'd have made up a sand cement waterproof admix (to plasticise it) and stuck it in my new mortar gun which I'm slightly obsessed with. I guess only issue with your method is it will shrink into the joint as it gets wet and you don't compact it but it's a neat idea.
What’s the silver you refer to?
@@CharlieDIYte what type of sand and what mix ratio would you use? I’m just about to do my patio, so the correct info would be appreciated!
I used screwfix no nonsense rapid set cement. Five years later the first patio is still fine after jetwashing yearly. I got lazy on the 2nd patio and didn't work it into the joints just brushing it over them. A lot of the cement has come out of those joints.
I’ve used easyjoint, it was amazing say 12 years ago. Now new house, no project, and every summer it needs a touch up from crumbling and Moses growing etc. Gone down in quality!
Yep, really wish I'd used sand and cement - would also have saved myself about £700 😩
Well done! I see this stuff fly away when pressure washing. Compressed dry mix with water added later I think
I used a dry sand and cement mix, the slight moisture in sand was enough, compressed it in and then a little later sprayed a light mist over it…. I did it as a temporary solution thinking eventually when i replace the slabs and do it all properly i would use the resin packs but its help up so well last 2 years and looks nice and fraction of the cost i think i will do sand and cement when its properly done.
Yep, wish I had used sand and cement, with a little integral waterproofing plasticiser. 😩
Nothing more permanent than a temporary fix
What is that pls? @@CharlieDIYte
And most of the comments confirm why you never take advice from the comments section.
I find sand cement cracks if there's a bit of movement. Also, with the sweep in product, if you saturate it with more water, it goes in deeper in the joints.
Use lime in the mix mate 4:1:1 sand, lime, cement
I've used the Sika Fastfix stuff and not had too much trouble, but it's only been on for 2 years
That's good to know. Thanks for that
Yup...dryish mix of 3 parts plastering sand to 1 part cement and a dollop of admix. Just wet enough so you can smooth it over with a pointing tool.
As I mentioned against the last video I used Sika this summer and regretted it. Despite rigorously following instructions it's peeled up in places. I've pointed a massive area so there's no going back and I'll just have to patch up the problem areas.
Yep, that's going to be my issue, although I might just decide to redo that raised patio if I have serious problems with it. 😩
@@CharlieDIYtewere you on TV once? You look familiar
The base needs to be permeable for a lot of brush in compounds, if the laying mix is say 4:1, you'll probably find the water isn't draining between the joints
It's probably why it delaminated Stu, but it seems bizarre to have a product that requires the patio to be saturated before applying, but which you can't use where there is standing water.
Flowpoint is fantastic 👌
I work in a builders merchants and we sell loads of that resin stuff . I have never used it but had always had suspicions about it . A few of the more serious contractors won't touch it saying the same as you . We akso sell flowpoint but nowhere near as much . Time for me to start educating people . Cheers 👊
I've used sika for the first time ,never used resin before , pre soaked then pushed in with a steel finger trowel to keep the finish tight ,seems ok ,wide joints are not recommended
I was hoping this was going to be a good way to fix my patio after mine started to do the same. Guess I'm going to have to get a mortar gun then
I'm going to get one. Always useful things to have around.
I’ve got one but it didn’t work on lime mortar pointing. I’ll try it on sand and cement, maybe dry or tiny bit wet will work better
Yep I get more raking out resin than putting in . Sand cement with a frost admix . I use sliver sand and light grit sand with white cement . Done in dry conditions during the warmer dry months . Wouldn't even entertain doing a job like this during the winter because the water in the mix will never dry out and eventually the frost will expand damp mix and form micro crack which will allow water in and frost will expand it pushing it out .
Gutted I didn't do it properly first time. Like your idea of using silver sand. I guess it slips through the mortar gun better too 👌
Is there a limit on joint width with the sweep in stuff? I've only ever used it on 5mm joints and it seems pretty decent
I can see the attraction of a mortar gun, but I have never gotten on with them. Liquid pour has always been easier to apply and given a better finish. Also helps fill any voids on a poor installation 😜
Are you following the instructions though? Sand and cement will crack and fall out, these silicon based joint compounds can expand and flex so less cracking. The bit that's come away hasn't been pushed down properly or there's a lot of silt underneath it
Yeah had the exact same problems with joint it absolutely the worst thing I did All breaking out weeds everywhere just ruined my whole yard. Very disappointing as it was expensive.
I would have rendered the house before installation of patio
What a lot of people don’t know is when you use them products the base has to be porous otherwise it traps water and turns the joints black. You have to use a very weak mix six or 7-1 when laying the patio so the water can filter through the week mix If you look on the instructions, it will tell you that before you use it if you’ve laid it on a 4 to one mix, then products are no good as the water cannot pass through the mix.
The base is definitely porous as before I laid it water never sat in the joints for long
Have you spoken to the restoration couple about long term durability of epoxy mortar for patios? They used it extensively at their old house.
I saw Tim last Friday and said to him I really should have watched his vid before doing mine 😉🤦
What was the implication? Good or bad in the long term? Watched his install vid. Looked good but has he followed up to say it’s not lasting?
Used the same stuff ( screw fixes own brand) went down great problem is it’s super rough and granular but allows water through it’s all gone green already and the wet weather has just started plus you can’t pressure wash it so it’s effectively dog shit. Sorry you’ve ruined your new patio hopefully you can remove it next year without ruining your stone. I know this isn’t particularly helpful but thought I’d let you know your not alone pal
Thanks pal. Yep, gutting as I could have done a much better job with sand and cement and saved myself a fortune 😩
We always use sand and cement wet with a mortar gun. Never had any grief.
I used dry sand and cement mortar. Brushed it in and misted water over the joints. No stains and it lasted. Pure cement is too brittle IMO.
Vdw850 all the way, so easy to use. Mines been down for 3 years, I always pressure wash it and it still looks like new
Yep should have used something like that. 👌
I’ve use that no nonsense resin patio jointing sand and it is fit for the bin straight out the tub. My jointing has all blackened from mould? Not sure what but next year will be scraping it out and finding a proper solution.
I'm afraid that's how I feel about it 😩
I've used that resin motor a few times, had no trouble with it, you have to keep a hose sprinkling over the area as glue it water activated and keep brushing it Into and over joint to fill and smooth them over, doing it with a grout trowel probably messed it up
Possibly not enough water for the activating but with A-Joint it only recommends a light sprinkling. It definitely needs compacting though.
I have just pointed part of my terrace using a mix 6 sand 1 cement 1 HL lime. On advice from a builder who deals with maintenance of period properties.
Spot on Patrick. Wish I could wind back the clock.
Used Sika...but spent an age working it into every...single...gap with my fingers. And it's mint.
Yep, sand cement & waterproofer, can't go wrong & ridge point it
can you not just ready mixed cement ?
Hi Charlie we used flow point on many porcelain patio jobs over the past 3 years and we've had issues with a few areas breaking out and had te manufacturers tech guys out to look at it and they've come back with nothing not even a discount on bags to repair areas at our cost 😢 it was all installed to manufacturers instructions. Not brilliant for the installer.
Use grey waterproof flexible tile segment put in with a mortar bag. Stick any loose slabs back down. £10 for 10 Kg
Used a similar product all the time called easy joint works just fine need to wet it up quite well and brush it in you can strike it at the end with a jointer. Brush off excess granules next day with a soft brush and you're good to go.
Your job looked far too dry when being pushed in hence the poor results.
The problem with my stuff A-Joint is you have to apply it dry. It's the surrounding area that has to be soaked.
Same problem here. Need to take out and redo with something permanent. Let me know what you decide in the end.
When I have to redo it in a year or two I'll use sand and cement with waterproof admix as a plasticiser - which has the added advantage you can then pipe it out of a mortar gun.
Sand and cement with wet mix every time applied with mortar gun for best results .takes longer but better job
I have similar issues with power washing everything off and desintegrating.is it to late to take it out and put sand and cement now??
Definitely not too late provided there's a reasonably firm base for the sand and cement once you've removed the resin. I'll be doing the same in a few years!
Respect for puttin this up
Cheers mate 👊
I just laid some concrete slabs in was thinking of using easy joint as ive heard good things but then people said why waste money its expensive just mix some dry sand and cement together and sweep it into the joints do u think that will be okay for a 3m by 3.6 metre patio ? Please get back as im going to be doing it tomorrow thank you
I'm not sure I'd just brush it in dry. I do wish I'd used sand and cement though but I'd have applied a waterproof admix to act as a plasticiser and also gunned it in with one of these www.screwfix.com/p/roughneck-mortar-gun-kit-1ltr/1983t?ref=SFAppShare You have to get the mix right though so it doesn't clog in the gun - another reason for the plasticiser
Would you recommend easy joint? As I’m thinking of using it myself
Personally I wouldn't use the resins if I could turn back time on this job.
Always sand and cement 3/1 mix
Would some sort of pea shingle worked just as well?
Possibly although you're then letting a lot more water in and you'd get weeds growing in it.
How deep your slabs are flow point would use a billion bags but its really good as it gets underneath
Thanks Rhys - yes the choice of the pros in told. I've pointed a few areas in the corner with sand and cement and the difference is massive. Wish I'd used that everywhere, applied through a mortar gun.
To be honest if I was doing a new patio I would steer away from traditional methods and consider using a Type 3 sub-base and those plastic risers that you slot the tiles into. No grouting/pointing/brushing sand, and your drainage will be infinitely better.
Fair point 👌
I'd stay traditonal myself, sharp sand and cement brushed in, but compacted hard with a tuck pointer.
The one you used on the video was too wide though. Needs to be thinner than the joints.
Thanks. Yes this is definitely what I should have done. 😩
@@CharlieDIYte On a positive note it doesn't look like it will be big job getting the old stuff out 👍
There’s no replacement for sand and cement pointing . I have been laying patio’s for 20 years and always use a 3-1 mix 2.5 parts soft sand and 0.5 sharp sand with cement
You should bar it when finishing to make sure that it seals it smooth and less chance of jet wash kicking up the sand
I did this. th-cam.com/video/M9ZCmPgZU4o/w-d-xo.htmlsi=_2x7BN06vw9Ekm50
No where near enough water during installation, you cant put too much water down. If its black so quickly you've an issue with the base
With A Joint you don't use water in the mixture and in fact it specifically says if the joints are water logged when you apply it you're going to have a problem as I found with it delaminating.
@@CharlieDIYte nope, just read instructions, "wet surface extensively" (that means a lot), brush over, compact in and wet again, then brush off any residue on face. Not tough instructions, or method. If you think sand and cement is a better paving joint option, you've no business telling others how to do it and you certainly shouldn't be slating products on a public platform when you did it wrong. My first resin compound job is still fine 10 years on after at least 1 pressure wash every year. WTF
I used the same thing, it’s gone black in areas and can’t withstand jet washing
This is going to be my biggest issue, although at least the areas I compacted properly withstands pressure washing, but the surface is too granular. That's why it attracts the dirt.
I had my patio done by so called professionals it’s all come loose and the sika resin they used failed within a couple of months . I’m going to relay next year I’m going to use the sand and cement pointing that Tommy Walsh used proper job
Sorry to hear that Mark. Yep, sand and cement for me next time. Would have saved me a fortune too 😩
I've used it 3 times it just isn't hard-wearing like sand and cement. It looks nice but I don't think it's reliable. I've used the sika one , easy joint and both didn't last tbh.
Yep, wish I'd used sand and cement Adam. 😩
I point sand and cement with a gun. Time consuming but charge by the day. The slabs need to be laif correctly so the joint forms a profile shape that cannot lift out.
Yep, wish I'd done it in sand and cement.
I've been using it on every job for the last four years and have laid over 1000 patios and never had a problem. Do it properly with a fine broom and brush over it . Wet the slabs first .
To last, push in a dry mix of sand and cerment with a pointing iron, keep working in till you can't fit no more. Clean the area you have pointed then lightly mist with hose, job done
I think that's the best technique I've heard so far as you're compacting it with the iron. Wish I'd done this rather than spending a fortune on resin.
Has anyone used Joint-it? Is see this stuff everywhere and the guy who sells the slabs recommends it
It's another of these resins. Easy to apply but if you want a truly hard wearing solution you'd be better with sand and cement.
Shove a slurp of sbr in the 3to1 sand and cement,,use washes sand,,,not brickies sand,,PS only 59 years of experience folks,👌🇬🇧🇬🇧
Joints are a bit big mate … resin is okay for the riven sandstone as they tend to self puddle… flow point is good but you need to know what you’re doing .. sand and cement with plasticiser is best without a doubt with those joints you could keep the joints slightly u shaped for a runoff don’t use the gun use a trowel and pointing key
Had a contractor use this, and agree with your comments, I then used it as a left over to point slabs on a seat, did everything as it said on the pack, you can actually see the water go through it and run out the bottom of the joint and stains the front of the seat, poor
Gutting isn't it. So wish I had done this with sand and cement with waterproof plasticiser. I would have saved myself a fortune too.
It's meant to be permeable so needs to be used when using a permeable sub base , otherwise water just sits in joints and goes manky and can lead to freezing popping the slabs loose
I have used a few different types of resin based and always strike hard into the joints with a flat key and then smooth with a round key before brushing clean , have had no problems - brushing/gunning in is never enough 👍
5 Sand. 1 OPC. 1 Hydrated Lime. 0.5 Water.
Seal slabs first then spend the time and effort to install a dry mix as above.
Yep, that's what I should have done although I'm tempted to apply a week mix with waterproof admix to get it to plasticise so I can get it to extrude from the gun
Hi what does OPC mean
But how do we sort it. Cost us a fortune to use resin bonding 7 yrs ago. Now absolutely awful black and green, and pressure washing washes it out.
Grind it out with an angle grinder and thick 6-8mm grinding blade… I’ve just started doing mine and it’s tedious but easy enough.
I hate it when the job was done poorly the first time around because you'll just have to *write it off* just like a bank writes off a bad loan. Loss of money, time and effort.
Yep. All part of life's learning curve I guess
@@CharlieDIYte Or... at least you got something done. Because otherwise it is a problem of design and implementation. Basically, overthinking and not getting around to doing anything. 😂😂😂 It is a thin line.
I don’t like this self sink wash in gap filler. It’s pretty quick and easy to install but never lasts
I agree 😩
Don't use waterproofer in your pointing. The patio needs to shed moisture through the pointing lines, especially if you've sealed the slabs beforehand. 👍
Cheers Phillip, we've sloped the patio down to echo drains the idea being to divert the water away from the house. I suppose my point about adding the plasticiser is to prevent algae and other growth getting into it.
Unless it’s porcelain!
@CharlieDIYte Always good practice to have a tidy run off. I definitely see the thinking with the algae, you sometimes see natural stone patios with black spots where the reverse of the slab has not been sealed so as long as the run off is good I don't see what harm a drop of waterproofer may do although in the good old British winters it's possible that your patio will stay moist and this in turn will cause Algae to grow no matter what you do! I think the saying goes, you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't! I give mine a blast with the Kärcher every spring and comes up good as new. All the best, great channel mate. 👍
Wouldn't use this stuff on joints bigger than 6 mm . They say up to 16 mm on some resins but really doesn't last .
I agree. Should have used sand and cement.
Iv had a lot of shit experiences with easyjoint which is same crap . Two part is good but can never go wrong with a good mix of cement
Completely agree and would have saved myself a fortune. I reckon this stuff cost me the thick end of £700.
Sand, cement, sbr ever time. Only reason people use anything else is because its easier and therefor cheaper
You didn’t compress it down with a tuck pointer/ joint filler
I dont mind making mistakes but when its a B to rectify im ragin 😂
Easy joint and sika never had an issue ppl don't mix enough water with it or something empty into tub add plenty water mix up wet patio empty out don't even bother compressing just big soft brush deep joints plenty water
I disagree. You definitely need to compress.
@@CharlieDIYte how did that work out for you brushing and the water compresses it maybe just bad product you used or shallow joints or continual wet weather not allowing full cure
I check out how it's held up next week bet its still solid and black
Sorry you’ve had this and thanks for the update
Sand and cement 4:1. I've had enough.
Can't beat sand and cement dry mix
I agree.
Lay wet joints as you go just like brick work. No faffing about with grouting. Obviously no good for Saturday bodgers and require moderate skill and attention to mixes to keep colour batching.
I like that idea John. 👌
If you have a soft stone flag or stone wall, please can people stop using sand and cement grout / mortar.
You grout / mortar should be softer than the supported material. Yes you need to replace it over time, however a hard grout / mortar caused the stone to flake away over time.
The mortar is pretty soft in the wall for that reason. It's also got lime mixed in for what it's worth
Yep
Sand and cement ain't broke so don't fix it.
Needs to be a lot wetter pointing with that
It's tricky stuff to use because you can't have the joints water logged when you put it in. That's for A Joint anyway.
I used one here in Ireland called Joint IT and it worked perfect.
Thanks for sharing 👊