The Rickenbacker sounds fantastic. At the same time the HB doesn't sound terrible either. I wouldn't mind at all playing the HB while I save up for the Rickenbacker
I've had a Rick for a long long time but, because it's a treasure, I disliked traveling with it for stage-performances. It sits there on-stage sometimes in between sets and, well, theft has always been a concern. With the pricing of HB's, I ultimately decided on two - one with the strings re-formatted into Bass-over-Treble - standard Rick string formation - and one with the usually standard Treble-over-Bass formation. I bought these about 4 months apart and prayed that the pickups would be identical (they were, but I suspect 1-2-3 year models can have diff pickups - these are budget guitars and I'm sure suppliers have very little motivation for 'sameness' - only profitability. So I always anticipate "cheaper and cheaper/lower and lower" quality.
One difference in playability: the nut width is 48mm on the Harley Benton and 41.44mm on the Rickenbacker. I owned a Rickenbacker 381V69/12 which also had the 41.11mm nut. For my fat fingers it was nearly unplayable. 48ms is more more sane for a 12-string.
Truly entertaining demo. Hot night, sweaty club, well oiled customers and fight breaks out on the dance floor. Glad I brought my Harley Benton with me. Keep the Rick in the home recording studio.
I felt the Ric tones were much crisper, as an instrument of that price should be. That said, you get a great sense of the fullness and musicality of the 12 string with the HB that new and intermediate players can enjoy without breaking the bank.
I think the HB came out on top here. It's warmer and more "pleasing to the ear". And if you really want that old Rickenbacker sound then I guess it's not that hard to roll off a bit of low on the amp. So, yeah, I bought myself the HB. Can't wait for it to arrive.
Hey Lars, how is your HB working for you??? From this video it is much warmer but that actually negates the type of 12 string sound that I like the best.... Wondering if you have rolled back that bass to get a more clear treble tone....
It’s subjective. You could adjust the pickup settings, the way you’re playing and arrive at a different sound. How do you even correlate electronics quality with terms like “warmth”?
@@lithium3952 As you said, it's subjective. By "warmth" I mean less high mids that may sound piercing, and more of a "smiley face" EQ scope. I think you understood what was meant.
Nice review! The Rickenbacker shown in this video is not the 360/12 as claimed, but the 360/12V64, and the "toaster top" pickups are actually low-gain single coils. In contrast, the 360/12 model has more of a "rounded" body shape, an "R" tailpiece, no binding on the front, and high-gain single coil pickups.
I ordered the HB based on your review and this video. It was the first time I've ever bought a guitar without playing it first. That order went in six months ago! It arrived a few days ago and I'm just over the top happy at the value I got for the price I paid. The pandemic, I'm sure, played a part in the delay of the guitar. Thank you.
The Harley Benton is actually not bad at all. I'd say the mellower tone is a pickup difference. I've been playing an old EKO Ranger for over 40 years , hoping to get an electric 12 some day but the prices today are prohibitive. The HB is a good chance to go full electric for me.
Hey Mark ... I'm friends with a luthier and band player of 40 years whom I jam with weekly. I bought this HB-612 guitar, in part, based on your review. Although he didnt say it, I know my luthier buddy was expecting something completely substandard. Out of the box the fit and finish was gorgeous and he took it to his work bench and set it up by lowering the bridge, deepening the nut and adjusting the saddles. Then we started playing and the fun began. He was shocked at how well it played, even asking twice what I paid for it. He said it felt like something he's played all his life. This is all leading up to a question for you... Everyone's goal is to replicate the Rickenbacker sound, right? The one thing he commented on that I've never seen anyone in print or video note is the placement of the bridge pickup on the HB vs. the Rickenbacker. He noted (correctly by the way) that the pickup on a Rick sits right next to the bridge, whereas on this one it's an inch away. He thinks that alone would get much closer to Rickenbacker jangle. He loves the pickups themselves on the Harley Benton, but thinks relocating is the missing element to achieving the best possible sound. What do you think and have you ever seen this discussed? TIA
I do a fair bit of experimentation with pickups, and can say that a seemingly small difference in proximity to the bridge can indeed make a massive difference in the tone from the same pickup. That could easily be the majority of the difference in tone, the rest being in the pickup itself, the bodies resonance and tone controls/wiring.
@@TheRamsberg We moved the pickup next to the bridge and added a third pick-up with a matching bezel to partially fill the hole (along with some black pickguard material) and it really jangles now! He wired the third pick-up to one of the tone controls and made the remianing tone control a master tone for all of them. The new center pick-up didn't add much to the sound so I usually have it turned off, but they all look like they belong and it plays like a dream.
For $275 (or any price), that H-B sounds amazing!!! The smaller body is a "plus" for me. I have a 12 string Danelectro, but for that reasonable amount of cash, that German beauty might be in my future! 🎸
Ravenwing and James Hill , Harley Benton products distribution is done by Thomann, Germany, but the instruments are made in Asia, that's the reason why they can keep the prices so low. Is like buying the original Hofner bass ( about 1500 Euros) ,or get the " Ignition" series that are made in China, for much less, they look similar, but they do not have the same quality. However, to carry a cheap instrument to the clubs or having fun at home, the Harley could be a good compromise
Hey Mike. Me too. I use it a lot in my new video THE BEST 12 STRING SONGS OF THE 70S. th-cam.com/video/Zq2m9uAHXTc/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=8MinuteAxe. Please check it out when you have a chance. I also give away a brand new 12 string every month. Have a great weekend and take care. -Mark
Hey CV. Definitely a good call. It's a versatile guitar. It came in handy for this video for sure! TOP 10 12 STRING SONGS OF THE 1970S! th-cam.com/video/Zq2m9uAHXTc/w-d-xo.html. I'm working on a partnership with HB right now. I'm going to review the double neck when they get it back in stock. I'm excited about that. I did a full review of the HB as well that I think is a good (quick) dive into the HB612 HARLEY BENTON ELECTRIC 12 STRING REVIEW AND 10 CLASSIC RIFFS! th-cam.com/video/ADOWz2jLPQk/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=8MinuteAxe. I appreciate you checking out the video. I hope you had a great weekend. Take care. -Mark
The pickups seem a bit weaker on the Harley Benton. I wonder if it's the pickups or the pots. Has anyone ever looked into this. The Rick seems to have better high tonal range than the HB. Thanks for another interesting video!
The Rick sounds fuller but the HB sound is certainly good enough to justify not spending another $2500 on the Rickenbacker! Maybe with some tweaks to the EQ the HB could be even closer. Nice to see you letting you good looking brother join you for some tunes Mark ;-)
For those in the USA, head’s up when ordering a Harley Benton, there will be a major need to be Johnny-on-the-spot in watching for any changes in tracking status, and that there is a new form concerning composite woods coming into the country. There will be a little ping-ponging of locations and a need to pay a few fees. This said, the fretwork, needed a little touch-up as my fingers came away with quite a bit of metal dust. The nut is plastic, the pickups remind me of the lower end Gretsch filtertrons which are great sounding to me, the tuning machines had a little slip, but worked fairly well, and mine had a grounding problem. This said, I flipped the octave strings nut and bridge mods ensued, strap locks installed, and I also changed out the tuning machines for locking Gotoh tuning machines. Getting a hard shell case from Thomann is helpful, but the two items will be shipped in their respective boxes. After the mods, the Harley Benton is a pleasure to play, though I wish that the lower or treble side of the headstock was not angled such a way that the string paths touch each other and was instead a bit closer to being inline. Love the 3/5ths sized R*********r semi-hollow bass body on this guitar. It looks like a R**********r, but plays more like a Grote and an older 335-style electric 12-string with a wider neck and less of a slope/spanning angle from the nut to the bridge.
Hi Mark, I have the HB but I've changed the strings to a set of Pyramid Gold flat wound. I think this takes the HB to the next level. The sound is .......... Amazing. You must try them.
@@sadlsore - I wouldn't call it ugly... and I'm pretty sure its 100% made in Germany, so no Chinese quality problems... for less than $300 and maybe a little more in mods it could be a good alternative for a $3K Rick 12... of course nothing sounds like a Rick...
@@stevelucero9047 All Harley Bentons are made by one builder in China. The Thoman Store which is the only store to directly market those guitars is in Germany. So, no HB's are made in Germany. I have the 6 string version of this guitar and a HB acoustic, both very good quality.
I really like the sound of the HB a little better and I have the Rickenbacker 360/12 64 repro. I restringed my 360 so the octave stings are on top. I just find it easier to play. I’ve been playing my acoustic 12 string so many years it was weird to play with the octave strings like the Rickenbacker setup.
The string order on the Ric is what gives it its identity and sets it apart. If you apply some English on chords it creates a great drive on the attack and adds some girth to the harmonics. I would do the opposite to any other 12 string in a sec!
You should note that you are playing a Ric 360 V64 12 string, or maybe a 360 C63, which has the correct toaster-top pickups and the life-saving trapeze tailpiece. Using a compressor is essential to getting the Byrds sound. Nice playing and nice collection of classic passages!
Great job with the comparison. Really nice how you did this. I’ve owned Ric 12s and 6 string and love them. After having a couple stolen I decided it wasn’t worth spending that kind of crazy money again, so I went through an exhaustive process to find a 12 that came close to sounding like a Ric but still had its own sound. The HB was one that I considered but every single video I saw and heard didn’t do it for me, but your videos seem to have been recorded much better and I do think the HB does sound very good. I ended up getting a Danelecteo 12 - the one with the F-hole - as I found that one to sound as close to a Ric as any non-Ric I’ve heard (there are a few different versions of the Dano 12s over the years and they do all have their own sound). I do like the headstock on the Ric, unlike yourself. When playing live it’s much easier to know what your reaching for - like anything it’s just a matter of getting used to it - what peg is for what string, unlike staring down a row of six pegs on one side and trying to count which is for what string - you don’t have time for that playing live and under low lighting it’s difficult. One important feature you didn’t mention on the Ric is the dual truss rod system. With all that tension on the neck from having 12 strings having dual truss rods is a great idea. It would be nice if you mentioned the neck differences - Rics having the narrower neck - not to everyone’s liking but I got on with it just fine and actually kind of miss having that with my Dano, but the Dano is very manageable.
The Rickenbacker hands down has the jingle jangle classic 12 string sound. The output is higher on the Rickenbacker than the HB. For the price the HB is a hell of a deal. You can always tweak the sound of the HB to get a more jangly sound.
The Harley Benton is one of the best value electric 12 strings out there. I bought one....it needed a setup pretty badly, but... afterward it played and sounded wonderful. I did also find a used Eastwood Classic 12 that I did a head-to-head sound comparison against the H.B. I was unconsciously strumming closer to the neck on the H.B. due to the smaller body...but after recording a tune with each guitar.... I would have been "Happy as a Clam" to keep either one. I ended up selling my H.B. because it was in better condition (virtually mint) and I could sell it for less and made someone very happy. The Eastwood sound very slightly better (I think they were produced in the same factory in China...same exact pickups as far as I could tell) and had a little better fit & finish than the H.B. Great comparison video! Thanks!
Excellent comparison, great production too! I’m a bit biased, owning a Ric 12, but the HB was really cool. Different sound, surely, and great alternative for gigging or just getting into 12s
Great video - nice honest comparison of sound vs cost. As a casual player (no gigging, just play for enjoyment) there is no way I can justify the cost of a Ric. The HB is an incredible value when you know its limitations. Thanks!
Hey Marc. Thanks so much. I don't do a lot of reviews partly because they take by far the most time as I really want to give a fair review of what people should expect. I don't accept any payment for reviews and I don't even keep the item. There are a lot of channels that primarily focus on reviews, where the reviewer gets paid. I honestly believe that these reviewers are genuine and want to give you their true impression but they are human. If you're feeding your family from the money you receive as a paid reviewer, are you really going to give 40% bad reviews. 25%. I think that the natural tendency is to do a few bad reviews and point to them as proof of honesty. And I don't think there's deception. I just think it's impossible to be completely honest when money is at stake. One reviewer loved EVERYTHING but then went off on the spark as if it was the worst amp ever. What's not to like about the Spark. It's $239. What you get for that is off the charts. I think that was calculated. The Spark is such a heavily reviewed item that it was the perfect one to trash and then point to and say, you see, I'm honest. Look what I wrote about the Spark. There's no love lost between me and Thomann. Long story short, they were very unprofessional with me. Just the same, my experience with the HB612 has been fantastic. Check this out. LED ZEPPELIN 12 STRING SONGS th-cam.com/video/NphysLiaX44/w-d-xo.html. It stays in tune REALLY well, looks cool, and is only $200 bucks. As far as the Rick goes, I agree with you. Everybody I know that owns one has terrible buyers remorse. Mine is on a very long term borrow. And the fact that I use it in videos is the little bit of satisfaction that the owner gets out of having bought it. I recently did another review. I was blown away by this guitar: th-cam.com/video/D7SByGzYDF0/w-d-xo.html. Have a great week and take care. Mark
String-format - bass-on-top vs. treble-on-top. In fingerpicking - especially with a thumb pick - this makes a significant difference. Your choice of riffs is a good demonstration of that. I restrung/re-formatted one of my HB's to mimic my Rick and that took a bit more effort than originally understood but, once done, all is well in the world. (The unanticipated bridge-flip wasn't too time-consuming - just unanticipated.)
I own a Rickenbacker 12 string ( and a 6 string ) and trust me with the very thin neck .The 12 string is a difficult Guitar to play real cleanly. Of course Mark made it look easy. Also unique to the Rick 12 is the Bass strings are on top of the Octave strings. Unless you are doing very serious professional level recording . The HB for the price can do the job. You really don't want to be taking a Rick out to play at the local pub or Festival. With the right setting the HB sounds almost like the Rick. When I have played out I actually use for 12 string parts a Danelectro. It's about a quarter of the cost of a Rick and it sounds fantastic. It has a wider neck also. I have always hated the way the tuning knobs on a Rick 12 were set up. Its a pain to tune and most people think your playing a 6 string just using a pedal for the sound. I actually have had to show the guitar to people sideways so they see the other 6 tuning knobs. Great job again Mark
I think the RB sounds great, and the the HB sounds pretty good. For the price difference, I can enjoy the heck out of the the HB. Maybe play around with pedals to enrich the sounds?
Another unique and great idea for a video. Ric's have a unique visual style that I always found striking. They both sound good. For me, it would come down to feel, and how the guitar would hold its value. That probably means I'd choose the Ric.
I've recently bought a 12 string Ibanez Artcore in light blue, for the princely sum of around £450.00 I bought it online from a guitar retailer in the NE of the UK. They set it up before dispatching to my home address - Never have I been so impressed (and I mean that).
Hey Stuart. I've heard good things about the Ibanez 12. I'm going to write to them and see if theyll send me one to demo. I want to stay 100$ unbiased but it's getting expensive to buy every guitar and I have more 12 strings than any person should own. Lol. Thanks for checking out the video. Have a great day. Mark
I just received the one I ordered and overall I was happy with the fit and finish, tone, etc. , especially for the price. However the G strings seemed difficult to get in tune …. before buying I had read that changing strings on these is crazy hard… with only 6 slots for 12 strings, each pair of strings having to share one hole in the tailpiece …. so I also bought a WD 12 string trapeze tailpiece with 12 slots for less than $30, it cost$37.84 with shipping… The 12 slot tailpiece fit on the existing trapeze and I was able to restring the guitar with the original strings because I’m cheap lol…. it worked! Something about not having to share a hole solved the G string problem… so I highly recommend to all purchasers of this guitar, spend the extra 30 bucks and you won’t have restringing problems, and if you’re having tuning issues maybe that will help as well. GREAT review, great playing BTW… but there IS another review worth watching… on “Jon is just TOO loudD“ TH-cam channel.
Hey Richard. Thanks so much. I dont do many reviews as that's the one type of video where I feel a responsibility to my viewers to be as accurate and unbiased as possible. These videos take the longest to make and I'm careful to check myself. Ultimately, biases are always going to creep in which is why I never do paid endorsements. That being said, if Epiphone wanted to pay me to promote their inspired by Gibson series, I would as I think they're the best value electric guitars right now. Anyway, I appreciate your time and your comment. Have a great day and take care. -Mark
@@8MinuteAxe thanks so much. Yes I grew up listening to these great songs. I have owned 2 acoustic 12 string guitars but never the amazing Rick. I thought as you played the 360 it sounded very close to the records. I wonder how the HB would sound with a treble booster. I know Roger McGuinn added one to his 330. I understand the great effort involved in doing a comparison like this and think you have done a flat out brilliant job. Be well Mark.
I think you spend the money to get the pickups used in the Rick and you just saved a couple grand and you get that "jangly" sound. I am not a 100% but ld find out the hard way before l dropped $3k in a guitar l don't really need.
Mark, I've owned 4 Ric 360 models starting in 1967 thru 2005. Never thinking the '67 would someday be worth a fortune!! I also have several Harley Bentons, but not the 12 string. My cheap 12 is a Dano, but i really like the new Benton 12. Love the vids man! keep 'em coming!
Roger mc Guinn has a limited edition with his signature ( you can see it on " Back from Rio " LP ) , with an inside built-in compressor, that gives that unmistakeable sound to his guitar. Very interesting video, thank you very much. Patrick from Italy
Since Rickenbacker doesn't offer a Epiphone -> Gibson or Squire -> Fender; transition line, this Harley Benton RB600/RB612 fits nicely as an option that allows early adoption before moving in to the Rickenbacker 300/600 lines.
Don't know how I missed this one, but I sure wish I had seen it when you made it... would've saved me some money on a clunker 12 string electric I bought online... that sounds awful. Considering the price difference between the Ric and the HB, I really like that HB. A little compression and EQ and it could be a lot more "Ric-ish"! Great video as always, Mark!
Hey brother. Great to hear from you. Check out my review of the Eastwood Classic 12. Fantastic 12 string. The HB is a workhorse. I used it in many subsequent Zep videos and it stays in tune remarkably well. I do a fairly good job of replicating Eight Miles High in the review and I squashed it three times just like Roger and got pretty darn close to dialing it right in. If you get a chance to check it out, let me know what you think. EASTWOOD CLASSIC 12 REVIEW: th-cam.com/video/D7SByGzYDF0/w-d-xo.html
Excellent comparison of the two but if I had the money to spare it would definitely be the Rick for me, purely on the looks and because I have always wanted one.
I feel like the Rick has a more focussed sound, much less mids and low mids. The HB might actually be better in a sparser setting. Also enjoying how the split screen lead player "looks to the rhythm player". The Rick is definitely the classic, but for my hands I like the Strat XII more. Well done video.
Great comparison video! If the Rick is god, then the HB is a minor deity. The HB definitely holds its own and for a 1/10 of the price. Also, great tunes and great execution - you played some memories and made me smile Mark!
The pickups in the Rick have more presence and focus. But the HB definitely has its place as you clearly state. I was confused that this 360 doesn’t have the rounded horns. I thought that was the mark of a 360? Anyway, great video, great playing. Clearly laid out and communicated. And ic course a joy to hear our favorite 12-string parts. Awesome job Mark!
The rounded horn cutaways were first released in 1965. The 360/12s released prior to 1965 were based on the Capri shape and looked a lot more like models in the 330 family.
Thank you for the fantastic review. You can clearly hear and see the difference between the two guitars. For me, the most desirable guitars are the ones that entice me to play more. RIC wins hands down for me. Much higher price for sure. But if you play it ten times as long because it sounds so good then the "value" equation is the same. And even better if you ever sell the RIC down the track for more than you purchased it.
Hey Karmic. I Completely agree with you that a huge part of the value is how much you play. I. You can buy a value guitar for $600 but if you never pick it up it's worthless.. Thanks for checking out the video and I appreciate the positive words.. Have a great day and take care. Mark
To my ears, the Rickenbacker has a lot more jangle, but you can't deny the HB's quality for the price. My main concern with ordering something from Germany is in regards to customer service...that's a long way to go for any issues, but this one seems to be aok. Amazing playing, really inspired me to buy one of these, but I just bought a guitar last week. Time to get a second job!
As someone with experience and having read the experiences of many others with dealing with Thoman, their customer service is very good to excellent, depending on one's particular issue.
Well I owned a Rick 360 for about twenty years and it was fantastic, but it’s not ten times better than the HB. That Harley Benton sounds almost as good to my ears and what a bargain. With a proper EQ it would be fine as far as I am concerned, might even get one myself after this demo, thanks.
I'm not in the market for a new 12-string but found this interesting. My old 12-string is an acoustic and it would be fun to play an electric 12 but my wife wouldn't be too happy if I came home with another one. Some of the songs you played didn't have a lot of difference in sound but Pleasant Valley Sunday sounded 100x better on the Rickenbacher.
pleasant valley sunday was originally played on a gibson les paul custom with 12 string acoustic either by bill chadwick or micky dolenz in the rainbow room they were miming to already recorded tracks
Hey Nicholas. If you watch my channel you know that I'm a huge Beatles fan and 1 in 4 videos ends up being about the Beatles. Even in this video, which isn't about the Beatles THE SONG THAT MADE THE 12 STRING FAMOUS th-cam.com/video/SfvYO9oPEv4/w-d-xo.html, I talk about the importance of A Hard Day's Night and how it is basically the line in the sand for the 12 string (stuff that came before and stuff that came after). Anyway, it's my long winded way of saying that I couldn't agree with you more! :) I appreciate your time and comment. Enjoy the rest of your weekend and take care. -Mark
Great review. I'd like to see someone do a comparison between the well-known guitar amps and the Harley Benton one. We all know that tone is everything.
Hey Joshua. That's an interesting topic. I'm working out a partnership with Thomann (the makers of Harley Benton). I'll ask them about potentially reviewing some of their amps). I just started a live show collab with a couple other TH-camrs. Our show this coming Sat at 7pm EDT is going to be on the future of amps. Heres the link Watch "THE GUITAR SHOW - The Future of Guitar Amps: Tube vs Modeling" on TH-cam th-cam.com/video/n7CJHc2yEqQ/w-d-xo.html. Either way, enjoy the rest of your day and take care. Mark
Looks (and sounds) like the Rickenbacker is being played with pickup selector in the mid position while the HB is in the bridge position. I have that HB and it sounds much warmer and fuller than that in mid position.
Hey Jamie. Thanks so much for checking out the video. I appreciate your time and comment. I played with the selector in a different positions (although, yes, for the selections in this one I do play primarily in the bridge on the HB). I did another comparison and a full review of the HB in which I put on screen the position and approximate roll off for each song. I also play through some jazz standards with the pickup in the middle and neck exclusively and I feature it in various songs in other videos with multiple positions. I own eleven 12 string guitars and it's always my fo to for When the Levee Breaks, Travelling Riverside Blues, and other songs in which Page employs the Vox Phantom or the Fender XII. I have a video coming out later today in which I play 25 classic 12 string songs from the 70s (I did 25 from the 60s last week). I agree, warm sounding and it stays in tune remarkably well. That being said, I love my Reverend Airwave. Definitely my favorite electric 12 string bar none. I hope you and your family have a great new year. Please take care and be well. Mark
The Rickenbacker does sound better than the HB but to my ears not by much and thats where it really counts. I like the way you and your partner play together, might be a little tough doing it live.
To my ears the Harley Benton has more midrange, is muddy and less jangle. The Rickenbacker has the jangle and a much more refined tone. But, at the price point, the HB is a good guitar for someone who wants a twelve string guitar to plunk-around with.
1) The Harley Benton sounds great for a guitar at that price point. Surprisingly good. 2) The way Rick 12s are strung absolutely does make a difference in the sound. It’s the Rickenbacker sound. Downplaying that aspect of the guitar is misleading, although it should be plain to anyone’s ears.
I think the difference in price makes the Harley Benton a great choice for the majority of players. Unless you’re a pro or buying to keep as an investment the HB is just a no brainer. The difference in tone is possibly down to the difference in stringing plus the woods used in construction plus possibly the caps used; that said a good Eq pedal would probably reduce the difference.
First off, great job on the vid. Maybe best head-to-head comparison I’ve heard. What I hear is that the Ric sounds like a Ric when playing classic Ric tunes. That said, and even after owning two Ric’s back in the ‘70’s, give me the HB with the change I’ll pick up an AC30 and a used car.
Nice job! I have a copy Ric 12 string and it's pretty good and I have a real Ric Jetglow 6 string that is really nice. If I wanted a 12-string electric and hearing your demo I wouldn't hesitate on the HB. I have several of them now. In fact, I'm playing my CST-24T Ocean Flame right now and it's a great guitar too.
This was a great video, Mark. I actually purchased an RB 612CS right after I watched. Thomann was a pleasure to deal with and I received my guitar five days later! Many thanks.
The Rick has low output Single Coil Toasters on it whereas the Harley Benton has Artec Mini H/B's. I fitted Rick Scatter-wound toasters to my Dean Boca and it transformed the sound. Also made a new nut for reversed stringing. Hard to tell the sound from a Rick now. I'd like to hear the Harley with Rick toasters on it.
@@8MinuteAxeI also bought the HB at the end of December and its still not there but I got noticed yesterday that it will finally arrive at Tuesday! Even though I live in Germany its not the greatest delivery time. It said it would take like 3-5 weeks but I‘ve waited now for a half a year
I’m in Germany this month. I have been several times to the amazing showroom at Thomann. Hundreds of guitars hanging in the wall you can just pick one and play. I have a great HB black strat and Delta Blue acoustic from them love them…. I did play the HB 12 when I was there last time. Looks like I have to order it as there’s a 6-8 weeks wait.
Hey Rich. I think you're the first person to suggest coil splitting to improve the sound. That's actually an excellent idea. Most people seem to be all one way or all the other with HB. I will say that my RB612 never goes out of tune. It's almost freakish. Thanks so much for checking out the video. I appreciate your time and comment. Have a great evening and take care. Mark
I love the Rickenbacker overall. Great tones and body shape. The Harley Benton is good too for its price, not a bad 12 string as it does sound nice. That said it is weird but i kinda liked ticket to ride better on the HB than the Rick, somehow it sounded closer to the record.
Mark, very well done. I agree, if $ were not a factor, the Rick hands down but as a wage earner with all the priorities of family needs the HB is a great substitute at a very attractive cost.
Hi Mark. You brought back so many memories. Your so unique in what you do. King of the Twelve String 2024. If I Needed Someone made me cry seriously. God Bless your one of the greatest. Glad I found you. Be Safe. 😂
I own the HB....it really is a nice guitar to play...I use a spark amp to play through...it is AMAZING how you can make it sound with different patches.
Hey michael, thanks so much for checking out the video. I couldn't agree with you more. I don't do a lot of reviews on the channel because i'm just not a picky guy by nature. 2 I like nice gear as much as the next guy but I own fourteen 12 string guitars, including 7 electric 12 strings and the Harley Benton hangs in with. Just about all of them. Anyway I really appreciate your time and your thoughts have a great evening and take care. Mark
@@8MinuteAxe I actually own mostly HB guitars. I mostly just play for my own enjoyment and any friends that want to sit and listen, so I don't need expensive top of the line gear. I found that the HB guitars play almost as nice as the brands they knock off...and for me, that is more than fine.
Hey Michael. I hope my comment didn't come off as snobbish. I own four HB guitars myself and the reason I have so many 12 strings is in part due to the fact that several were sent to me at no cost. I own a solid mahogany HB that cost 244. When I did a review of it no less than 10 people told me I was mistaken about it being all solid wood. None of them investigated. They all assumed because that sounds ludicrous. Lol. Solid top. Solid back and sides. It plays and sounds great. I also have the 612 doubleneck which is awesome. I'm also a big fan of Epiphone. Thanks again for your time. Mark
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The Rickenbacker sounds fantastic. At the same time the HB doesn't sound terrible either. I wouldn't mind at all playing the HB while I save up for the Rickenbacker
I've had a Rick for a long long time but, because it's a treasure, I disliked traveling with it for stage-performances. It sits there on-stage sometimes in between sets and, well, theft has always been a concern. With the pricing of HB's, I ultimately decided on two - one with the strings re-formatted into Bass-over-Treble - standard Rick string formation - and one with the usually standard Treble-over-Bass formation. I bought these about 4 months apart and prayed that the pickups would be identical (they were, but I suspect 1-2-3 year models can have diff pickups - these are budget guitars and I'm sure suppliers have very little motivation for 'sameness' - only profitability. So I always anticipate "cheaper and cheaper/lower and lower" quality.
@@ollietsb1704 Did switching the HB to bass over treble give the attack more chime? Do you notice much difference in the sound between the two HB's?
One difference in playability: the nut width is 48mm on the Harley Benton and 41.44mm on the Rickenbacker. I owned a Rickenbacker 381V69/12 which also had the 41.11mm nut. For my fat fingers it was nearly unplayable. 48ms is more more sane for a 12-string.
Truly entertaining demo.
Hot night, sweaty club, well oiled customers and fight breaks out on the dance floor. Glad I brought my Harley Benton with me.
Keep the Rick in the home recording studio.
The Ric was better, but not 10x the price better.
How about 20x the price in the UK? Honest.
For general purposes I would take a vintage Fender 12 over both of them.
I felt the Ric tones were much crisper, as an instrument of that price should be. That said, you get a great sense of the fullness and musicality of the 12 string with the HB that new and intermediate players can enjoy without breaking the bank.
I think the HB came out on top here. It's warmer and more "pleasing to the ear". And if you really want that old Rickenbacker sound then I guess it's not that hard to roll off a bit of low on the amp. So, yeah, I bought myself the HB. Can't wait for it to arrive.
Hey Lars, how is your HB working for you??? From this video it is much warmer but that actually negates the type of 12 string sound that I like the best.... Wondering if you have rolled back that bass to get a more clear treble tone....
It’s subjective. You could adjust the pickup settings, the way you’re playing and arrive at a different sound. How do you even correlate electronics quality with terms like “warmth”?
@@lithium3952 As you said, it's subjective. By "warmth" I mean less high mids that may sound piercing, and more of a "smiley face" EQ scope. I think you understood what was meant.
Nice review! The Rickenbacker shown in this video is not the 360/12 as claimed, but the 360/12V64, and the "toaster top" pickups are actually low-gain single coils. In contrast, the 360/12 model has more of a "rounded" body shape, an "R" tailpiece, no binding on the front, and high-gain single coil pickups.
I was singing along to all of these! I was sad when they stopped! I wanted more than the intros! :)
Thanks brother.
I ordered the HB based on your review and this video. It was the first time I've ever bought a guitar without playing it first. That order went in six months ago! It arrived a few days ago and I'm just over the top happy at the value I got for the price I paid. The pandemic, I'm sure, played a part in the delay of the guitar. Thank you.
Where did you order it from?
The Harley Benton is actually not bad at all. I'd say the mellower tone is a pickup difference. I've been playing an old EKO Ranger for over 40 years , hoping to get an electric 12 some day but the prices today are prohibitive. The HB is a good chance to go full electric for me.
Hey Mark ... I'm friends with a luthier and band player of 40 years whom I jam with weekly. I bought this HB-612 guitar, in part, based on your review. Although he didnt say it, I know my luthier buddy was expecting something completely substandard. Out of the box the fit and finish was gorgeous and he took it to his work bench and set it up by lowering the bridge, deepening the nut and adjusting the saddles. Then we started playing and the fun began. He was shocked at how well it played, even asking twice what I paid for it. He said it felt like something he's played all his life.
This is all leading up to a question for you... Everyone's goal is to replicate the Rickenbacker sound, right? The one thing he commented on that I've never seen anyone in print or video note is the placement of the bridge pickup on the HB vs. the Rickenbacker. He noted (correctly by the way) that the pickup on a Rick sits right next to the bridge, whereas on this one it's an inch away. He thinks that alone would get much closer to Rickenbacker jangle. He loves the pickups themselves on the Harley Benton, but thinks relocating is the missing element to achieving the best possible sound. What do you think and have you ever seen this discussed? TIA
I do a fair bit of experimentation with pickups, and can say that a seemingly small difference in proximity to the bridge can indeed make a massive difference in the tone from the same pickup. That could easily be the majority of the difference in tone, the rest being in the pickup itself, the bodies resonance and tone controls/wiring.
@@TheRamsberg We moved the pickup next to the bridge and added a third pick-up with a matching bezel to partially fill the hole (along with some black pickguard material) and it really jangles now!
He wired the third pick-up to one of the tone controls and made the remianing tone control a master tone for all of them. The new center pick-up didn't add much to the sound so I usually have it turned off, but they all look like they belong and it plays like a dream.
@@floydthebarber9956 That's awesome! Thanks for sharing the update!
For $275 (or any price), that H-B sounds amazing!!! The smaller body is a "plus" for me. I have a 12 string Danelectro, but for that reasonable amount of cash, that German beauty might be in my future! 🎸
More likely Chinese "beauty". Wonder what percent slave labor content?
I'm sure it is Chinese but the people that make those guitars don't like their gov either and probably have a family to feed..
Ravenwing and James Hill , Harley Benton products distribution is done by Thomann, Germany, but the instruments are made in Asia, that's the reason why they can keep the prices so low. Is like buying the original Hofner bass ( about 1500 Euros) ,or get the " Ignition" series that are made in China, for much less, they look similar, but they do not have the same quality. However, to carry a cheap instrument to the clubs or having fun at home, the Harley could be a good compromise
Have you tried this? Would restringing base/tone strings on your Dano 12 to match the Ric 12s, make it more Ric sounding?
Made in China and sold by Thoman in Germany. But they ARE good value.
I actually liked the Harley Benton. I liked the warm tone it had.
Hey Mike. Me too. I use it a lot in my new video THE BEST 12 STRING SONGS OF THE 70S. th-cam.com/video/Zq2m9uAHXTc/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=8MinuteAxe. Please check it out when you have a chance. I also give away a brand new 12 string every month. Have a great weekend and take care. -Mark
HB sound very warm like led zeppelin stairway. that's what i am looking for.
I have a 360-12 string Rickenbacker but I’m tempted to add a Harley Benton 12 string guitar to my guitar collection,
Hey CV. Definitely a good call. It's a versatile guitar. It came in handy for this video for sure! TOP 10 12 STRING SONGS OF THE 1970S! th-cam.com/video/Zq2m9uAHXTc/w-d-xo.html. I'm working on a partnership with HB right now. I'm going to review the double neck when they get it back in stock. I'm excited about that. I did a full review of the HB as well that I think is a good (quick) dive into the HB612
HARLEY BENTON ELECTRIC 12 STRING REVIEW AND 10 CLASSIC RIFFS! th-cam.com/video/ADOWz2jLPQk/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=8MinuteAxe. I appreciate you checking out the video. I hope you had a great weekend. Take care. -Mark
I truly enjoy your direct & to the point demo/reviews. Thank you for sharing. Have a blessed day.
The pickups seem a bit weaker on the Harley Benton. I wonder if it's the pickups or the pots. Has anyone ever looked into this. The Rick seems to have better high tonal range than the HB. Thanks for another interesting video!
The Rick sounds fuller but the HB sound is certainly good enough to justify not spending another $2500 on the Rickenbacker! Maybe with some tweaks to the EQ the HB could be even closer. Nice to see you letting you good looking brother join you for some tunes Mark ;-)
For those in the USA, head’s up when ordering a Harley Benton, there will be a major need to be Johnny-on-the-spot in watching for any changes in tracking status, and that there is a new form concerning composite woods coming into the country. There will be a little ping-ponging of locations and a need to pay a few fees. This said, the fretwork, needed a little touch-up as my fingers came away with quite a bit of metal dust. The nut is plastic, the pickups remind me of the lower end Gretsch filtertrons which are great sounding to me, the tuning machines had a little slip, but worked fairly well, and mine had a grounding problem. This said, I flipped the octave strings nut and bridge mods ensued, strap locks installed, and I also changed out the tuning machines for locking Gotoh tuning machines. Getting a hard shell case from Thomann is helpful, but the two items will be shipped in their respective boxes. After the mods, the Harley Benton is a pleasure to play, though I wish that the lower or treble side of the headstock was not angled such a way that the string paths touch each other and was instead a bit closer to being inline. Love the 3/5ths sized R*********r semi-hollow bass body on this guitar. It looks like a R**********r, but plays more like a Grote and an older 335-style electric 12-string with a wider neck and less of a slope/spanning angle from the nut to the bridge.
Hi Mark,
I have the HB but I've changed the strings to a set of Pyramid Gold flat wound.
I think this takes the HB to the next level. The sound is .......... Amazing.
You must try them.
The HB looks like like a cheap Chinese knockoff, down to the spaghetti trapeze; it’s ugly.
@@sadlsore - I wouldn't call it ugly... and I'm pretty sure its 100% made in Germany, so no Chinese quality problems... for less than $300 and maybe a little more in mods it could be a good alternative for a $3K Rick 12... of course nothing sounds like a Rick...
@@stevelucero9047 All Harley Bentons are made by one builder in China. The Thoman Store which is the only store to directly market those guitars is in Germany. So, no HB's are made in Germany. I have the 6 string version of this guitar and a HB acoustic, both very good quality.
I@@stevelucero9047 If the HB was made in Germany, it would be way more expensive and much higher quality.
Cool video!
One correction: Michael Nesmith played the Pleasant Valley Sunday riff in a Gibson Les Paul “Black Beauty”.
I really like the sound of the HB a little better and I have the Rickenbacker 360/12 64 repro. I restringed my 360 so the octave stings are on top. I just find it easier to play. I’ve been playing my acoustic 12 string so many years it was weird to play with the octave strings like the Rickenbacker setup.
The string order on the Ric is what gives it its identity and sets it apart. If you apply some English on chords it creates a great drive on the attack and adds some girth to the harmonics.
I would do the opposite to any other 12 string in a sec!
You should note that you are playing a Ric 360 V64 12 string, or maybe a 360 C63, which has the correct toaster-top pickups and the life-saving trapeze tailpiece.
Using a compressor is essential to getting the Byrds sound.
Nice playing and nice collection of classic passages!
Great job with the comparison. Really nice how you did this.
I’ve owned Ric 12s and 6 string and love them. After having a couple stolen I decided it wasn’t worth spending that kind of crazy money again, so I went through an exhaustive process to find a 12 that came close to sounding like a Ric but still had its own sound.
The HB was one that I considered but every single video I saw and heard didn’t do it for me, but your videos seem to have been recorded much better and I do think the HB does sound very good.
I ended up getting a Danelecteo 12 - the one with the F-hole - as I found that one to sound as close to a Ric as any non-Ric I’ve heard (there are a few different versions of the Dano 12s over the years and they do all have their own sound).
I do like the headstock on the Ric, unlike yourself. When playing live it’s much easier to know what your reaching for - like anything it’s just a matter of getting used to it - what peg is for what string, unlike staring down a row of six pegs on one side and trying to count which is for what string - you don’t have time for that playing live and under low lighting it’s difficult.
One important feature you didn’t mention on the Ric is the dual truss rod system. With all that tension on the neck from having 12 strings having dual truss rods is a great idea.
It would be nice if you mentioned the neck differences - Rics having the narrower neck - not to everyone’s liking but I got on with it just fine and actually kind of miss having that with my Dano, but the Dano is very manageable.
The Rickenbacker hands down has the jingle jangle classic 12 string sound. The output is higher on the Rickenbacker than the HB. For the price the HB is a hell of a deal. You can always tweak the sound of the HB to get a more jangly sound.
Yeah... I'd love to see a comparison where he actually tries to match the Rickenbacker tone using some EQ pedals or something.
Thank you for a VERY PLEASANT review! Pleasant to listen to.😊
I'm not in the market for an electric 12 string right now, but I still enjoyed the video. I just love the full sound of a 12 string guitar.
The Harley Benton is one of the best value electric 12 strings out there. I bought one....it needed a setup pretty badly, but... afterward it played and sounded wonderful. I did also find a used Eastwood Classic 12 that I did a head-to-head sound comparison against the H.B. I was unconsciously strumming closer to the neck on the H.B. due to the smaller body...but after recording a tune with each guitar.... I would have been "Happy as a Clam" to keep either one. I ended up selling my H.B. because it was in better condition (virtually mint) and I could sell it for less and made someone very happy. The Eastwood sound very slightly better (I think they were produced in the same factory in China...same exact pickups as far as I could tell) and had a little better fit & finish than the H.B. Great comparison video! Thanks!
Awesome video dude. Love how you opened with Beatles. Thanks for the brief but informative specs and GREAT head to head riff comparisons.
Excellent comparison, great production too! I’m a bit biased, owning a Ric 12, but the HB was really cool. Different sound, surely, and great alternative for gigging or just getting into 12s
Nice video Mark!
Great video - nice honest comparison of sound vs cost. As a casual player (no gigging, just play for enjoyment) there is no way I can justify the cost of a Ric. The HB is an incredible value when you know its limitations. Thanks!
Hey Marc. Thanks so much. I don't do a lot of reviews partly because they take by far the most time as I really want to give a fair review of what people should expect. I don't accept any payment for reviews and I don't even keep the item. There are a lot of channels that primarily focus on reviews, where the reviewer gets paid. I honestly believe that these reviewers are genuine and want to give you their true impression but they are human. If you're feeding your family from the money you receive as a paid reviewer, are you really going to give 40% bad reviews. 25%. I think that the natural tendency is to do a few bad reviews and point to them as proof of honesty. And I don't think there's deception. I just think it's impossible to be completely honest when money is at stake. One reviewer loved EVERYTHING but then went off on the spark as if it was the worst amp ever. What's not to like about the Spark. It's $239. What you get for that is off the charts. I think that was calculated. The Spark is such a heavily reviewed item that it was the perfect one to trash and then point to and say, you see, I'm honest. Look what I wrote about the Spark. There's no love lost between me and Thomann. Long story short, they were very unprofessional with me. Just the same, my experience with the HB612 has been fantastic. Check this out. LED ZEPPELIN 12 STRING SONGS th-cam.com/video/NphysLiaX44/w-d-xo.html. It stays in tune REALLY well, looks cool, and is only $200 bucks. As far as the Rick goes, I agree with you. Everybody I know that owns one has terrible buyers remorse. Mine is on a very long term borrow. And the fact that I use it in videos is the little bit of satisfaction that the owner gets out of having bought it. I recently did another review. I was blown away by this guitar: th-cam.com/video/D7SByGzYDF0/w-d-xo.html. Have a great week and take care. Mark
Based on your reviews of the HB, I bought the 612CS. Ordered on Friday, arrived the next Wednesday. I couldn't be more pleased. Thanks Mark!
String-format - bass-on-top vs. treble-on-top. In fingerpicking - especially with a thumb pick - this makes a significant difference. Your choice of riffs is a good demonstration of that. I restrung/re-formatted one of my HB's to mimic my Rick and that took a bit more effort than originally understood but, once done, all is well in the world. (The unanticipated bridge-flip wasn't too time-consuming - just unanticipated.)
I own a Rickenbacker 12 string ( and a 6 string ) and trust me with the very thin neck .The 12 string is a difficult Guitar to play real cleanly. Of course Mark made it look easy. Also unique to the Rick 12 is the Bass strings are on top of the Octave strings. Unless you are doing very serious professional level recording . The HB for the price can do the job. You really don't want to be taking a Rick out to play at the local pub or Festival. With the right setting the HB sounds almost like the Rick. When I have played out I actually use for 12 string parts a Danelectro. It's about a quarter of the cost of a Rick and it sounds fantastic. It has a wider neck also. I have always hated the way the tuning knobs on a Rick 12 were set up. Its a pain to tune and most people think your playing a 6 string just using a pedal for the sound. I actually have had to show the guitar to people sideways so they see the other 6 tuning knobs. Great job again Mark
The Dan electro lip stick pickups suit the electric 12 perfectly in my opinion.
I think the RB sounds great, and the the HB sounds pretty good. For the price difference, I can enjoy the heck out of the the HB. Maybe play around with pedals to enrich the sounds?
For the price the HB can't be beat. Maybe some tweaks to the settings? Also, I'm not too fond of taking an expensive guitar out to play.
How crazy expensive would it be to replace the pickups on the HB if one desired?
True. That's the downside with Rick's, they are so beautiful you don't want to beat em up.
Yes, maybe a change of pickups already enriches the sound a lot. Anyhow, I really like the approach of the HB.
Another unique and great idea for a video. Ric's have a unique visual style that I always found striking. They both sound good. For me, it would come down to feel, and how the guitar would hold its value. That probably means I'd choose the Ric.
Great video. Sonically the Ric naturally wins. But bang for your buck goes to the Harley Benton.
I've recently bought a 12 string Ibanez Artcore in light blue, for the princely sum of around £450.00 I bought it online from a guitar retailer in the NE of the UK. They set it up before dispatching to my home address - Never have I been so impressed (and I mean that).
Hey Stuart. I've heard good things about the Ibanez 12. I'm going to write to them and see if theyll send me one to demo. I want to stay 100$ unbiased but it's getting expensive to buy every guitar and I have more 12 strings than any person should own. Lol. Thanks for checking out the video. Have a great day. Mark
@@8MinuteAxe what songs are on 7:04 and 5:53?
The Rick sounds amazing. The HB doesn't sound terrible but for the price it sounds great. I just wish HB offered it in left handed variation.
I just received the one I ordered and overall I was happy with the fit and finish, tone, etc. , especially for the price. However the G strings seemed difficult to get in tune …. before buying I had read that changing strings on these is crazy hard… with only 6 slots for 12 strings, each pair of strings having to share one hole in the tailpiece …. so I also bought a WD 12 string trapeze tailpiece with 12 slots for less than $30, it cost$37.84 with shipping… The 12 slot tailpiece fit on the existing trapeze and I was able to restring the guitar with the original strings because I’m cheap lol…. it worked! Something about not having to share a hole solved the G string problem… so I highly recommend to all purchasers of this guitar, spend the extra 30 bucks and you won’t have restringing problems, and if you’re having tuning issues maybe that will help as well. GREAT review, great playing BTW… but there IS another review worth watching… on “Jon is just TOO loudD“ TH-cam channel.
Excellant job! I have the Harley Benton & I'm diggin' it & I think it hangs real close to the Rick but you can't beat the price! Thanks again!
Awesome video Mark. Love the intro and how you did the comparisons. Really enjoyable
Both guitars sound great! Your statement is the best whereas if you have no budget, go Rick, if money is tight, go Benton. Great job as usual!!
The guy in the hat looks just like you! 😝 seriously excellent overview. Thanks
Hey Richard. Thanks so much. I dont do many reviews as that's the one type of video where I feel a responsibility to my viewers to be as accurate and unbiased as possible. These videos take the longest to make and I'm careful to check myself. Ultimately, biases are always going to creep in which is why I never do paid endorsements. That being said, if Epiphone wanted to pay me to promote their inspired by Gibson series, I would as I think they're the best value electric guitars right now. Anyway, I appreciate your time and your comment. Have a great day and take care. -Mark
@@8MinuteAxe thanks so much. Yes I grew up listening to these great songs. I have owned 2 acoustic 12 string guitars but never the amazing Rick. I thought as you played the 360 it sounded very close to the records. I wonder how the HB would sound with a treble booster. I know Roger McGuinn added one to his 330. I understand the great effort involved in doing a comparison like this and think you have done a flat out brilliant job. Be well Mark.
Gotta go with the Ric. The HB sounds ok, but it doesn't jangle as much as the Ric.
Good point Brywol.. its all about the jangle.
I think you spend the money to get the pickups used in the Rick and you just saved a couple grand and you get that "jangly" sound. I am not a 100% but ld find out the hard way before l dropped $3k in a guitar l don't really need.
There's an annoying harsh ringing in the HB on the first couple tunes.
Mark, I've owned 4 Ric 360 models starting in 1967 thru 2005. Never thinking the '67 would someday be worth a fortune!! I also have several Harley Bentons, but not the 12 string. My cheap 12 is a Dano, but i really like the new Benton 12. Love the vids man! keep 'em coming!
Roger mc Guinn has a limited edition with his signature ( you can see it on " Back from Rio " LP ) , with an inside built-in compressor, that gives that unmistakeable sound to his guitar. Very interesting video, thank you very much. Patrick from Italy
Thanks for this comparison. I just order my Harley Benton RB-612. Getting it next week!
Since Rickenbacker doesn't offer a Epiphone -> Gibson or Squire -> Fender; transition line, this Harley Benton RB600/RB612 fits nicely as an option that allows early adoption before moving in to the Rickenbacker 300/600 lines.
Don't know how I missed this one, but I sure wish I had seen it when you made it... would've saved me some money on a clunker 12 string electric I bought online... that sounds awful. Considering the price difference between the Ric and the HB, I really like that HB. A little compression and EQ and it could be a lot more "Ric-ish"! Great video as always, Mark!
Hey brother. Great to hear from you. Check out my review of the Eastwood Classic 12. Fantastic 12 string. The HB is a workhorse. I used it in many subsequent Zep videos and it stays in tune remarkably well. I do a fairly good job of replicating Eight Miles High in the review and I squashed it three times just like Roger and got pretty darn close to dialing it right in. If you get a chance to check it out, let me know what you think. EASTWOOD CLASSIC 12 REVIEW: th-cam.com/video/D7SByGzYDF0/w-d-xo.html
The Rick is substantially brighter than the H-B which is warmer (or muddier). Thx very much for this toe to toe of the two. Both look beautiful.
Excellent comparison of the two but if I had the money to spare it would definitely be the Rick for me, purely on the looks and because I have always wanted one.
I feel like the Rick has a more focussed sound, much less mids and low mids. The HB might actually be better in a sparser setting. Also enjoying how the split screen lead player "looks to the rhythm player". The Rick is definitely the classic, but for my hands I like the Strat XII more. Well done video.
Great comparison video! If the Rick is god, then the HB is a minor deity. The HB definitely holds its own and for a 1/10 of the price. Also, great tunes and great execution - you played some memories and made me smile Mark!
Absolutely no doubt about it. It stays in tune much better too!
Nice work Mark!
The pickups in the Rick have more presence and focus. But the HB definitely has its place as you clearly state. I was confused that this 360 doesn’t have the rounded horns. I thought that was the mark of a 360? Anyway, great video, great playing. Clearly laid out and communicated. And ic course a joy to hear our favorite 12-string parts. Awesome job Mark!
The rounded horn cutaways were first released in 1965. The 360/12s released prior to 1965 were based on the Capri shape and looked a lot more like models in the 330 family.
Oh my goodness im in love!!!
Thank you for the fantastic review. You can clearly hear and see the difference between the two guitars. For me, the most desirable guitars are the ones that entice me to play more. RIC wins hands down for me. Much higher price for sure. But if you play it ten times as long because it sounds so good then the "value" equation is the same. And even better if you ever sell the RIC down the track for more than you purchased it.
Hey Karmic. I Completely agree with you that a huge part of the value is how much you play. I. You can buy a value guitar for $600 but if you never pick it up it's worthless.. Thanks for checking out the video and I appreciate the positive words.. Have a great day and take care. Mark
To my ears, the Rickenbacker has a lot more jangle, but you can't deny the HB's quality for the price. My main concern with ordering something from Germany is in regards to customer service...that's a long way to go for any issues, but this one seems to be aok. Amazing playing, really inspired me to buy one of these, but I just bought a guitar last week. Time to get a second job!
As someone with experience and having read the experiences of many others with dealing with Thoman, their customer service is very good to excellent, depending on one's particular issue.
Well I owned a Rick 360 for about twenty years and it was fantastic, but it’s not ten times better than the HB.
That Harley Benton sounds almost as good to my ears and what a bargain. With a proper EQ it would be fine as far as I am concerned, might even get one myself after this demo, thanks.
*FINALLY!!!* A 12-string guitar video that acknowledges Roger McGuinn's contributions to the genre.
I'm not in the market for a new 12-string but found this interesting. My old 12-string is an acoustic and it would be fun to play an electric 12 but my wife wouldn't be too happy if I came home with another one. Some of the songs you played didn't have a lot of difference in sound but Pleasant Valley Sunday sounded 100x better on the Rickenbacher.
Thought the Beatles was spot on.
pleasant valley sunday was originally played on a gibson les paul custom with 12 string acoustic either by bill chadwick or micky dolenz in the rainbow room they were miming to already recorded tracks
I never really liked the look of the Rickenbacker, but damn does it sound nice
I love Rickenbackers. I would love to own the black model made popular by John Lennon.
I own the black Lennon style a beautiful Guitar. John never played it on stage
I own the black Lennon style version. John never played it live only during rehearsals
those two actually seem to go really well together
I'm no guitarist but a very interesting post and wow, those 12-string riffs, blew my head off!
0:01 - A Hard Day’s Night by The Beatles
Hey Nicholas. If you watch my channel you know that I'm a huge Beatles fan and 1 in 4 videos ends up being about the Beatles. Even in this video, which isn't about the Beatles THE SONG THAT MADE THE 12 STRING FAMOUS th-cam.com/video/SfvYO9oPEv4/w-d-xo.html, I talk about the importance of A Hard Day's Night and how it is basically the line in the sand for the 12 string (stuff that came before and stuff that came after). Anyway, it's my long winded way of saying that I couldn't agree with you more! :) I appreciate your time and comment. Enjoy the rest of your weekend and take care. -Mark
Great review. I'd like to see someone do a comparison between the well-known guitar amps and the Harley Benton one. We all know that tone is everything.
Hey Joshua. That's an interesting topic. I'm working out a partnership with Thomann (the makers of Harley Benton). I'll ask them about potentially reviewing some of their amps). I just started a live show collab with a couple other TH-camrs. Our show this coming Sat at 7pm EDT is going to be on the future of amps. Heres the link Watch "THE GUITAR SHOW - The Future of Guitar Amps: Tube vs Modeling" on TH-cam
th-cam.com/video/n7CJHc2yEqQ/w-d-xo.html. Either way, enjoy the rest of your day and take care. Mark
Looks (and sounds) like the Rickenbacker is being played with pickup selector in the mid position while the HB is in the bridge position. I have that HB and it sounds much warmer and fuller than that in mid position.
Hey Jamie. Thanks so much for checking out the video. I appreciate your time and comment. I played with the selector in a different positions (although, yes, for the selections in this one I do play primarily in the bridge on the HB). I did another comparison and a full review of the HB in which I put on screen the position and approximate roll off for each song. I also play through some jazz standards with the pickup in the middle and neck exclusively and I feature it in various songs in other videos with multiple positions. I own eleven 12 string guitars and it's always my fo to for When the Levee Breaks, Travelling Riverside Blues, and other songs in which Page employs the Vox Phantom or the Fender XII. I have a video coming out later today in which I play 25 classic 12 string songs from the 70s (I did 25 from the 60s last week). I agree, warm sounding and it stays in tune remarkably well. That being said, I love my Reverend Airwave. Definitely my favorite electric 12 string bar none. I hope you and your family have a great new year. Please take care and be well. Mark
The Rickenbacker does sound better than the HB but to my ears not by much and thats where it really counts. I like the way you and your partner play together, might be a little tough doing it live.
To my ears the Harley Benton has more midrange, is muddy and less jangle. The Rickenbacker has the jangle and a much more refined tone. But, at the price point, the HB is a good guitar for someone who wants a twelve string guitar to plunk-around with.
Awesome video Mark!
HB sounds and looks like a real value!
Great comparison, thanks for posting.
The look of the Harley Benton is a mix between the Rickenbaker 620/12 and Rickenbaker 360/12 (or the 330/12).
1) The Harley Benton sounds great for a guitar at that price point. Surprisingly good. 2) The way Rick 12s are strung absolutely does make a difference in the sound. It’s the Rickenbacker sound. Downplaying that aspect of the guitar is misleading, although it should be plain to anyone’s ears.
The thing that separates Rick's from most 12 strings is the fact that the octave string is first
I saw a video here where the HB owner reversed the bridge saddles to better mimic the Rick.
@@deanevangelista6359 that's only half of the equation. What about the nut?
I think the difference in price makes the Harley Benton a great choice for the majority of players. Unless you’re a pro or buying to keep as an investment the HB is just a no brainer. The difference in tone is possibly down to the difference in stringing plus the woods used in construction plus possibly the caps used; that said a good Eq pedal would probably reduce the difference.
HB tone sounds closer to a pedal emulation and the Rickenbacker sounds like a 12 string. Nice video!
First off, great job on the vid. Maybe best head-to-head comparison I’ve heard. What I hear is that the Ric sounds like a Ric when playing classic Ric tunes. That said, and even after owning two Ric’s back in the ‘70’s, give me the HB with the change I’ll pick up an AC30 and a used car.
The HB stands out cuz of the price 🎸
The headstock also looks waaayyyy easier to restring
I love a Rickenbacker, but you’ve made the HB shine!! Thanks for all the information!!
Thanks again brother. Much appreciated.
Nice job! I have a copy Ric 12 string and it's pretty good and I have a real Ric Jetglow 6 string that is really nice. If I wanted a 12-string electric and hearing your demo I wouldn't hesitate on the HB. I have several of them now. In fact, I'm playing my CST-24T Ocean Flame right now and it's a great guitar too.
This was a great video, Mark. I actually purchased an RB 612CS right after I watched. Thomann was a pleasure to deal with and I received my guitar five days later! Many thanks.
The Rick has low output Single Coil Toasters on it whereas the Harley Benton has Artec Mini H/B's. I fitted Rick Scatter-wound toasters to my Dean Boca and it transformed the sound. Also made a new nut for reversed stringing. Hard to tell the sound from a Rick now. I'd like to hear the Harley with Rick toasters on it.
The A Hard Days Night Solo sounded like the original one
I played it over the backing track. I really appreciate you taking the time to check it out. Please have a great weekend and take care. Mark
@@8MinuteAxeI also bought the HB at the end of December and its still not there but I got noticed yesterday that it will finally arrive at Tuesday! Even though I live in Germany its not the greatest delivery time. It said it would take like 3-5 weeks but I‘ve waited now for a half a year
For what it’s worth. The HB. Was more faithful
Songs sounded as they would have back
In the day - I’m just saying
I’m in Germany this month. I have been several times to the amazing showroom at Thomann. Hundreds of guitars hanging in the wall you can just pick one and play. I have a great HB black strat and Delta Blue acoustic from them love them…. I did play the HB 12 when I was there last time. Looks like I have to order it as there’s a 6-8 weeks wait.
Harley Benton needs to move the treble pickup closer to the bridge like it is on the Ric. It would also benefit from coil splitting.
Hey Rich. I think you're the first person to suggest coil splitting to improve the sound. That's actually an excellent idea. Most people seem to be all one way or all the other with HB. I will say that my RB612 never goes out of tune. It's almost freakish. Thanks so much for checking out the video. I appreciate your time and comment. Have a great evening and take care. Mark
The Rick has the chime and jangle, Great video
Great stuff! Love both. HB has a nice warm sound. Great playing. Ricky is iconic, Harley benton is great though. I'll take both😄
Both very cool guitars! 😎🤘🎸
I love the Rickenbacker overall. Great tones and body shape. The Harley Benton is good too for its price, not a bad 12 string as it does sound nice. That said it is weird but i kinda liked ticket to ride better on the HB than the Rick, somehow it sounded closer to the record.
Mark, very well done. I agree, if $ were not a factor, the Rick hands down but as a wage earner with all the priorities of family needs the HB is a great substitute at a very attractive cost.
Hi Mark. You brought back so many memories. Your so unique in what you do. King of the Twelve String 2024. If I Needed Someone made me cry seriously. God Bless your one of the greatest. Glad I found you. Be Safe. 😂
The beginning of the intro sounded like the theme tune of Bonanza 😉
The Ric does sound amazing but for the price the HB sounds pretty decent!
I own the HB....it really is a nice guitar to play...I use a spark amp to play through...it is AMAZING how you can make it sound with different patches.
Hey michael, thanks so much for checking out the video. I couldn't agree with you more. I don't do a lot of reviews on the channel because i'm just not a picky guy by nature. 2 I like nice gear as much as the next guy but I own fourteen 12 string guitars, including 7 electric 12 strings and the Harley Benton hangs in with. Just about all of them. Anyway I really appreciate your time and your thoughts have a great evening and take care. Mark
@@8MinuteAxe I actually own mostly HB guitars. I mostly just play for my own enjoyment and any friends that want to sit and listen, so I don't need expensive top of the line gear. I found that the HB guitars play almost as nice as the brands they knock off...and for me, that is more than fine.
Hey Michael. I hope my comment didn't come off as snobbish. I own four HB guitars myself and the reason I have so many 12 strings is in part due to the fact that several were sent to me at no cost. I own a solid mahogany HB that cost 244. When I did a review of it no less than 10 people told me I was mistaken about it being all solid wood. None of them investigated. They all assumed because that sounds ludicrous. Lol. Solid top. Solid back and sides. It plays and sounds great. I also have the 612 doubleneck which is awesome. I'm also a big fan of Epiphone. Thanks again for your time. Mark
@8 Minute Axe not snobbish at all...just sharing information.
If you want the sound, but cannot afford the Rick, I would not mind buying the HB. Love your playing. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻