Great job Steve. Have a ray of hope in a bible study I'm in. Our former teacher, a beloved older, die hard devout Trinitarian passed away in August. He was a fine man but we differed in doctrine in several areas. The Godhead, baptism, etc. Our new teacher asked that we meet privately to discuss doctrine. Reasonably sure it was because of some of my answers on these subjects. Thought maybe I was going to get kicked out but after telling him my beliefs it turns out he believes much the same way. He said he is trying to lead by presenting Scripture and hoping the rest of the group, about 40 men, will begin to put them together and come to the same conclusions we had. I'm thankful as I was about ready to quit the study.
What’s ironic is that the majority of KJV only Christians I encounter insist on the trinity doctrine to the point that they assert that those who reject the doctrine will burn in hell. It must be pretty nauseating at times to know that there are people who also assert the superiority of the KJV but condemn Oneness Pentecostalism to the eternal flames. The Church is more at war with itself than outside enemies. Bible tribalism and all the denominations intensify this conflict.
Absolutely, Elohim is a HE, a single person there. Yeshuva students are not tied to the protestant bible scholars and they learn the majestic plural. God is also likely addressing his divine council as He does elsewhere in the OT. Like Psalm 89:7, and the word “council” is translated from the Hebrew word sōd (#05475 סוֹד), which refers to a “council, secret council, intimate council, circle of familiar friends, assembly,” and also sometimes to the results of the deliberation of a divine council. Also Jeremiah 23:18, 22, and Job 15:8. The idea of a heavenly court is where plans are made and decisions rendered. Michael Heiser has said …Seeing the Trinity in Gen 1:26 is reading the NT back into the OT something that isn’t a sound interpretive method….” (The Unseen Realm, p. 39, yes I am pasting this in). But Heiser has also said “The plural of majesty does exist of nouns…but Gen. 1:26 is not about nouns-the issue is the verbal forms.” (The Unseen Realm, p. 39). In Gen 1:26, the verb “make” in the phrase “Let us make” is plural, and so the “us” is not a plural of majesty; it is God speaking to others about making mankind. It is perfectly reasonable to assume angels were also created in the image of God.
You talked about the divine council. Very appropriate. The Hebrew Bible is not western literature and the motifs are ancient near eastern not greco-roman.
Not seeking conflict, just truth and discussion. is it possible Ezekiel 1:5 is referring to them having a likeness of a man, because Ezekiel is seeing them after man has already been created, so he’s describing them in human terms? I can still see though how the cheribum would have this appearance before the existence of man, if they existed before man. Is there a verse that says cherubim were created first?
5:56 Yes, Genesis 1:26 is actually teaching polytheism (multiple divine persons) and monotheism (only one divine person) simultaneously. This is the only view that gets to take all the best arguments (Jesus is God, only one person is God, and yet multiple divine persons exist) and proclaim with biblical authority the whole counsel of God concerning the nature of God in relation to the threeness and oneness. There’s not a single verse of scripture that goes against this view. In fact, it’s exactly what’s taught in 1 John 5:7. The “one” in 1 John 5:7 must be understood in light of Deuteronomy 6:4 and John 17:3, otherwise proper biblical monotheism has been wiped away.
@Jesus Christ Is Lord That’s quite amazing that you agree with me. It appears that you’re the only person that I’ve ever encountered that fully agrees with my view. Christians in general have anathematized polytheism (even though Trinitarians generally use polytheistic based terms like “God the Son” and “God the Holy Spirit”). But on the flipside, Trinitarians have also denounced Unitarianism (which correctly teaches that only one person is God, but regrettably denies Godhood from Jesus, thereby making Unitarian theology a damnable heresy). A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
John 1:1-4 John 1:14 1 John 5:7 Who became Flesh the Father, The Word or The Holy Ghost? [ The Word became flesh ] the Father and the Holy Ghost did NOT become Flesh.
God never became flesh. God doesn't grow in wisdom, has no need for sleep, never hungers, wasn't born of a woman and all the things that applied to the Son of Man. God didn't become a man ( Numbers 23 :19 ) He was manifest in the man Jesus Christ. 1st Timothy 3:16. "And the word was "made" flesh, and dwelt among us....." John 1:14. The word is God uttering, speaking Himself. It is not a person or the second person of a triune god. You make Jesus Christ the second of or in anything and you diminish our great God and Savior. Titus 2:13
@@ralphowen33671 John 5:7 does NOT prove a Relational Being within HIMSELF??? That's a self Refuting Conclusion, it's a Non-starter. one self Being can't be Relational within one self, that would be a Personality Disorder and extreme case of Narcissistism? The Three Distict Persons our ONE Relational Being God/Godhood/Divine Family, Communal Relations between three divine persons is throughout the Bible.
@@hudsontd7778 No, I said it does prove God is a relational Being within Himself. The "three" are what God consists of-- Spirit, Word, and Father. Many try to insert the son of God in that verse, but "word" covers it. The verse could as well have said Spirit, soul, and heart. When Jesus was in the days of his flesh, God was Spirit, Father, and body. But now the body part is the body of Christ, the church.
Bible believing Christian's dont believe in the doctrine of the trinity? How do you believe in the gospels without believing the fact that christ was fully God and fully man? There are multiple things that are of God that we will never on this earth fully understand that doesnt mean that Gods word must be wrong because we as extremely flawed beings cant understand it
Was Christs death substitutiary atonement or not? If so then how was he a worthy sacrifice being simply a man? If not then what was the reason for his death and resurrection?
1 LORD GOD en 1 lord mediator all called 1 en its in timothy 2,5 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! of ALL LAWS the shema is the GREATEST LAW en also john 17,3 trinity is UNBIBLICAL
Great job Steve. Have a ray of hope in a bible study I'm in. Our former teacher, a beloved older, die hard devout Trinitarian passed away in August. He was a fine man but we differed in doctrine in several areas. The Godhead, baptism, etc. Our new teacher asked that we meet privately to discuss doctrine. Reasonably sure it was because of some of my answers on these subjects. Thought maybe I was going to get kicked out but after telling him my beliefs it turns out he believes much the same way. He said he is trying to lead by presenting Scripture and hoping the rest of the group, about 40 men, will begin to put them together and come to the same conclusions we had. I'm thankful as I was about ready to quit the study.
Yes....thousands of times where God is he, him, I, me.
Amen!
What’s ironic is that the majority of KJV only Christians I encounter insist on the trinity doctrine to the point that they assert that those who reject the doctrine will burn in hell. It must be pretty nauseating at times to know that there are people who also assert the superiority of the KJV but condemn Oneness Pentecostalism to the eternal flames. The Church is more at war with itself than outside enemies. Bible tribalism and all the denominations intensify this conflict.
Absolutely, Elohim is a HE, a single person there.
Yeshuva students are not tied to the protestant bible scholars and they learn the majestic plural.
God is also likely addressing his divine council as He does elsewhere in the OT.
Like Psalm 89:7, and the word “council” is translated from the Hebrew word sōd (#05475 סוֹד), which refers to a “council, secret council, intimate council, circle of familiar friends, assembly,” and also sometimes to the results of the deliberation of a divine council.
Also Jeremiah 23:18, 22, and Job 15:8.
The idea of a heavenly court is where plans are made and decisions rendered.
Michael Heiser has said …Seeing the Trinity in Gen 1:26 is reading the NT back into the OT something that isn’t a sound interpretive method….” (The Unseen Realm, p. 39, yes I am pasting this in).
But Heiser has also said “The plural of majesty does exist of nouns…but Gen. 1:26 is not about nouns-the issue is the verbal forms.” (The Unseen Realm, p. 39). In Gen 1:26, the verb “make” in the phrase “Let us make” is plural, and so the “us” is not a plural of majesty; it is God speaking to others about making mankind.
It is perfectly reasonable to assume angels were also created in the image of God.
And yet vs. 27 reveals who did the creating--Himself, alone, and by Himself, none with him, especially not other Godhead Persons-- Is. 44:24.
You talked about the divine council. Very appropriate. The Hebrew Bible is not western literature and the motifs are ancient near eastern not greco-roman.
I have come to believe Jehovah or Elohiym was speaking with the light he had spoken into existence in Gen. 1:3 in order for the creation to happen.
Not seeking conflict, just truth and discussion. is it possible Ezekiel 1:5 is referring to them having a likeness of a man, because Ezekiel is seeing them after man has already been created, so he’s describing them in human terms? I can still see though how the cheribum would have this appearance before the existence of man, if they existed before man. Is there a verse that says cherubim were created first?
I think they were created before man. Job 38:6
@@NewLifeOfAlbanyGa would they be the morning stars and sons of God referenced in 3:7?
@@believeonChriststaystrong7589 3:7 of job?
5:56 Yes, Genesis 1:26 is actually teaching polytheism (multiple divine persons) and monotheism (only one divine person) simultaneously.
This is the only view that gets to take all the best arguments (Jesus is God, only one person is God, and yet multiple divine persons exist) and proclaim with biblical authority the whole counsel of God concerning the nature of God in relation to the threeness and oneness. There’s not a single verse of scripture that goes against this view. In fact, it’s exactly what’s taught in 1 John 5:7. The “one” in 1 John 5:7 must be understood in light of Deuteronomy 6:4 and John 17:3, otherwise proper biblical monotheism has been wiped away.
@Jesus Christ Is Lord That’s quite amazing that you agree with me. It appears that you’re the only person that I’ve ever encountered that fully agrees with my view.
Christians in general have anathematized polytheism (even though Trinitarians generally use polytheistic based terms like “God the Son” and “God the Holy Spirit”). But on the flipside, Trinitarians have also denounced Unitarianism (which correctly teaches that only one person is God, but regrettably denies Godhood from Jesus, thereby making Unitarian theology a damnable heresy). A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
@Jesus Christ Is Lord I was actually just listening to a Trinity based sermon from Peter Ruckman the other day. He denounced polytheism in it :-)
@Jesus Christ Is Lord I don’t
@Jesus Christ Is Lord We should arrange a time to talk doctrine together online. Would you be interested in doing that?
John 1:1-4
John 1:14
1 John 5:7
Who became Flesh the Father, The Word or The Holy Ghost?
[ The Word became flesh ]
the Father and the Holy Ghost did NOT become Flesh.
God never became flesh. God doesn't grow in wisdom, has no need for sleep, never hungers, wasn't born of a woman and all the things that applied to the Son of Man. God didn't become a man ( Numbers 23 :19 ) He was manifest in the man Jesus Christ. 1st Timothy 3:16. "And the word was "made" flesh, and dwelt among us....." John 1:14. The word is God uttering, speaking Himself. It is not a person or the second person of a triune god. You make Jesus Christ the second of or in anything and you diminish our great God and Savior. Titus 2:13
You're also separating the Father and the Holy Ghost. They are one in the same. John 4 : 24
I Jn. 5:7 proves that God is a relational Being within Himself, and is not a family of individuals.
@@ralphowen33671 John 5:7 does NOT prove a Relational Being within HIMSELF??? That's a self Refuting Conclusion, it's a Non-starter.
one self Being can't be Relational within one self, that would be a Personality Disorder and extreme case of Narcissistism?
The Three Distict Persons our ONE Relational Being God/Godhood/Divine Family, Communal Relations between three divine persons is throughout the Bible.
@@hudsontd7778 No, I said it does prove God is a relational Being within Himself. The "three" are what God consists of-- Spirit, Word, and Father. Many try to insert the son of God in that verse, but "word" covers it. The verse could as well have said Spirit, soul, and heart. When Jesus was in the days of his flesh, God was Spirit, Father, and body. But now the body part is the body of Christ, the church.
Bible believing Christian's dont believe in the doctrine of the trinity? How do you believe in the gospels without believing the fact that christ was fully God and fully man? There are multiple things that are of God that we will never on this earth fully understand that doesnt mean that Gods word must be wrong because we as extremely flawed beings cant understand it
Was Christs death substitutiary atonement or not? If so then how was he a worthy sacrifice being simply a man? If not then what was the reason for his death and resurrection?
He was fully God and fully man.
@@NewLifeOfAlbanyGa amen
1 LORD GOD en 1 lord mediator
all called 1 en its in timothy 2,5 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
of ALL LAWS the shema is the GREATEST LAW en also john 17,3
trinity is UNBIBLICAL