@@Anwrimos23 Completly false. I got the Pace 3 and gave it back. The screen is opaque and the touch screen is slow, meanwhile the 165 has an OLED screen (basically the same as a smart phone). The pace 3 is not better than the 165 in anyway other than price. The Pace 3 is $229 and the 165 is $250 (with no music). I always bring my phone with me so the music feature was useless to me, so I got the 165 and I'm happy with it. $20 is not enough of a difference to get the Pace 3 IMO. The only people that should get the pace 3 is people on a budget that like to bring their music in their watch. Other than that, get the 165.
I went with the FR 165 over Coros Pace 3 for the Spotify connectivity alone. Love not having to take my phone on runs anymore. Have had it for a week and absolutely loving it so far!
I am looking to upgrade from my 5 year old Forerunner 45. Lots of great info in this video. The chart helped me out a ton. I agree with your point about the music version should be $250 to begin with. I considered and researched Amazfit & Apple watches but the Garmin just suits my needs the best. I will most likely go with the 165. Thanks for putting this together.
I've been using my Fr745 for many years now and it's showing its age. Tempted by this cheaper watch, but the lack of multisport means I'll probably be heading to the 265 when the time comes.
Well, it is very interesting model, for sure. Concerning the comparision with Coros Pace 3, Pace 3 also has temperature sensor (however, in the latest firmware it is used only for water temperature measurment in swimming activities) and trail run mode. Also Garmin Pay would be worth mentioning in the comparision tables, because that feature may be important for people who choose between Forerunner 165 and Pace 3. But for lack of certain activity profiles and extra $ for music support, it would be a true Pace 3 killer. Edit: other reviews show that Forerunner 165 does not have a metronome, and lacks altitude and atmospheric pressure widgets (despite having a built-in altimeter sensor). These tiny details move Forerunner 165 further from "Pace 3 killer" status, imho.
Was just about to buy a 255 so this 165 came out of the blue! Very timely video and trying to work out which to get now. I want running dynamics data so great if 165 has this and with screen maybe better option as I only need for running.
I agree with your rant. I follow you, DCR, DesFit, Legrand and I still get confused by all the lineups. I consider myself an informed consume, but enough is enough. It's hard to recommend watches to others because Garmin's algorithm doesn't make sense on why some watches get certain software features.
Amazing work here! I'm not sure I love the 'Run' on the select button but this watch should be enough for a lot of people. I'm thinking it'd be an ideal recommendation for many of my cross country athletes. Also, I'm seeing a few tiny scratches on your 965. I'm sure it's only noticeable when it's reflected off the studio lights but I also wonder about those slightly domed screens. 🤔. Stay classy out there buddy!
Great! This seals the deal. I'm ordering a FR165 and upgrading from my Fitbit Inspire 2 that I won from a granola bar box (not joking, the code made me instantly win). Super stoked. I'm waiting a couple weeks though for the 20% Garmin coupon from the Optimity app to be applicable to this watch. They aren't applicable to watches to watches released within 60 days of launch date.
Great video! Thank you particularly for the charts you made! I love that Garmin has lots of watches; juxtapose Garmin with Fitbit that only introduced ONE tracker in 2023 - that’s it. Is there a 165S? 43mm is too big for smaller wrists. I’m accustomed to 40 mm on my Venu 2S.
I never thought I would never switch to apple, but I recently got the Apple Watch SE 2 gen with LTE. It costs 330 USD where I live. It's hard to believe it's almost the same price to the most entry level watch from Garmin. But the SE is basically a mini smartphone on my wrist. So much cool stuff on it. Apple Maps directions while running is amazing. The drawback is that I have to charge everyday, but that's OK in 95% cases. In the last 5% I'll use my garmin :)
Great review, as always. I might just pick up the 165. I use HRV4training for training readiness/load kinda stuff nowadays, so don't need it in watch. And now that the low end model has trail running activity (about time time!), i think it has everything i need. Mapping is the only truly useful feature lacking, but that's several midels, and hundreds of dollars, up the ladder in any case.
Thank you for this video! I am especially grateful for the time you put into that handy comparison chart. I found it incredibly useful 🙌 Why the watch appeals to me: I'm a runner, but have been using Fitbits for the last 4 years (Versa 2 and 3) to track my overall health. I've loved the overall Fitbit UI, metrics, etc., but as I take the next step in my running journey (really getting into trail running), I'm looking to transition into a more running focused watch. This watch is really interesting to me, as it's at my perfect price point and seems to have the right DNA combo of smartwatch/running watch. The 55 screen seemed like a giant step down + I wouldn't get the music version of the 165, as I don't listen to music on trail runs + my tread and road running is either done with Peloton or at run clubs. I don't need all of the features of the $400+ watches... On your Garmin/market competition notes: The wearable market is weird and going through a lot of changes and trends (mainly that the biggest global growth is in high-end watches + really low end wearables) - so I imagine the mid market ($100 - $399) will continue to be crowded as companies figure out how to compete with Apple's growing share. I think Garmin has a strong profile in the $400+ range, but the mid market is just saturated right now, as you mentioned. Lastly, a tiny rant: I'm just getting a little tired of everyone complaining about feature tiers. These are businesses folks - whether it's Fitbit with it's subscription, or Garmin with holding back certain software features for pricier devices - companies are looking for ways to make more money off of us and sustain their growth.. given market dynamics, I imagine their hope is to push people to the $400+ 265, which is a market segment that has good growth - they don't want to totally undercut that flagship product...
The 265 has been around a while, and the new 165’s screen is so slightly smaller, the rest of the 265 isn’t worth the difference in the huge price jump, any longer. The 165 unlike the 265 is offered in a lower cost non music version. I didn’t check the weight difference to see if the 165 is that much lighter too, it may be. No big deal in batt life. Perhaps more are carrying cell phones as companions these days, except for swimmers, most certainly runners do as few in my opinion run with others. Distance running is a solitude activity, around the clock in just about any weather. The 265 is an always wear around the clock device, a so called human condition monitor as I call it, the instruction manual is ridiculous, and nothing is intuitive. So is the credits it gives to all those sources of the human condition / training experts. I see Garmin issued videos on how to program the 165, it’s just like the 265 in programming and can be applied accordingly. Same buttons too. The most expensive models just like big screen tv lineups,changed annually, are targeted to top end buyers, and overpriced accordingly. I find the 265 screen to read at all, responds faster than the Venu I had, I’d bet Garmin delays it purposely by degrading performance enough to be annoyingly a reason to upgrade, again. The connect app to a phone or tablet after the 265 downloads is the only place practical to analyze post race or training data, not on the wrist. Seems the 265 is the design model for the new 165 in too many respects, yet I don’t see a reason enough to blow the extra cash if one gets a 165 to go 265 later, hence the Garmin product development plan continues, to sell more and junk the rest.
This video was great. Alot of great information and comparison to other models. I appreciate your videos and your attention to detail on these items. I have the Forerunner 955 and will probably make the upgrade to the Fenix 7 or 8 if it comes out this summer or the 965. But the 165 looks like a huge upgrade from the 55.
The only complaint I have about Garmin are the various models they make. It can be confusing to prospective buyers who are not already familiar with Garmin watches.
this video was very helpful. on my search the pace 3 almost sold me, but i really want sleep score, race predictions and body battery so i’m going w the forerunner 165
Ah I absolutely agree with Garmin confusing the customer - I’m an Apple Watch user looking to maybe switch to Garmin yet I’m so confused with what to pick I probably won’t. However, software costs a lot to make/develop so I’m not overly surprised companies are holding back certain features even though it is annoying.
21:33 I completely agree. I am looking at the Garmin website and my head hurts. It’s confusing to have different options that are similar in features and price points. It’s just easier to get an Apple Watch, or galaxy watch
@@rubenl9261 Bigger display, better battery life, triathlon, much more sport profiles, more data fields per each page during an activity, better GPS options, advanced training analysis like training load and training focus.
@@rubenl9261Bigger display, better battery life, triathlon, much more sport profiles, better GPS options, advanced training analysis like training load and training focus, more data fields per each page during an activity. Don't get me wrong, the 165 is a super nice little watch to get you into (running) sports. But given the fact that the Forerunner 255 is about the same price now I personally would go for the it.
Great review. Although late, a small correction: Coros Pace 3 does not have ANT+ support AFAIK (but this appears in the comparison table in the video).
I live near the Big Alta course. I hope you finish as that's a brutal course. Bring high traction shoes it's going to be muddy. Thanks for your presentation of the Forerunner.
@@ChaseTheSummit When you're on the trail don't wander off into the tall grass as there are ticks. In the past I've seen mountain lions, a wolf, and rattlers. I don't think you'll be seeing any this time of year. Marinwood Market sells wholesome food. If you need any info of the area let me know.
@@IDYLBERRY thanks! We get nasty ticks here as well fortunately not this time of year. Probably add a bit of deet to the ankles as an insurance policy. Are you going to be on the course this weekend?
@@ChaseTheSummit No I won't be there as I'm not a runner, I'm a cyclist. I've hiked up there several times. It rained today to add to the runoff. Try to get out to beautiful west Marin and Point Reyes National Seashore.
Somewhat. It's a side step more than a straightforward upgrade. The only thing I'd really like from the 165 is HRV. 245 has a few things they left out in the 265 such as training status, training load, virtual pacer
new to running and currently own an Apple Watch Ultra. Intrigued by the Garmin offering but their watch line up confuses the life out of me and does seem like it could benefit from some kinda rationalisation between the forerunner, vivo active, fenix, Epix etc etc etc love the videos and reviews though!
I think this watch (especially the non-music version) is going to be one of the biggest hits for Garmin ever. It has all the data that 90% of athletes and runners need, and the quality of the display is breathtaking. I'm going to buy one right now. Thank you for the review! Greetings from Spain! I think the throne of Coros Pace 3 is over.
Everybody talks about Garmin having too many watches but I like it. I want a Fenix for regular athletic training, an Instinct for my military stuff that has I’m super battery life and can take a beating, and a vivomove hybrid watch for when I want to track my fitness but think it’s inappropriate to be wearing a digital/smart watch, like office job or church.
Nothing wrong with options! I only get frustrated by the software limitations between each device. It’s super confusing understanding which feature is on which watch!
Love the video, if I needed an entry level watch then I'd go with the 165, I ve actually got a Epix Gen2 which I got just before they released the Pro! That's what frustrates me!
Would be nice to see that Gen 5 HR sensor come over to the Forerunner line - I’ve been considering upgrading my 955, but at the moment it’s not buying much more than an AMOLED display
My Fenix 5x battery decided to die and cannot be replaced so I have to check a new one. This model ticks most of the boxes for my activities but of course, I would miss the Fenix feel and now I do not feel to spend all that extra money. Definitely a serious candidate and good package for the price.
This is the most informative video I've watched about the 165, thank youu 🤍 During my first 10km marathon I didn't have anything like this so I just tracked myself using my phone. Long story‐short, I dropped it and it broke 😭 Anyway, not making that mistake again so gonna get this for another upcoming 10k 🥳
Excellent review of the new Garmin Forerunner 165👏🏾👏🏾👌🏾‼️! Though it has s priced at $249, it may cost more when it is released in India, perhaps closer to $350 (₹35,000 approx). At this price, the Apple Watch Series 9 is almost the same price! Wonder how the FR165 compares to that!
Is there a profile for indoor biking? (Edit: I've seen it, it seems to be there!) I'm really happy that strength training is there, together with HRV measuring. It looks way more appealing than the Vivoactive 5 at a similar price point. There are just too many Garmin watches with roughly the same functions out there! Thanks for the review. I agree 100 % with your conclusion about confusing watch features. Just put all the profiles in all the watches, but mapping, extreme battery life and metal casing in the most expensive watches. Premium features like ECG and training readiness could be reserved for the mid tier and the entry tier is mostly separated by looks and built (Forerunner 165, Vivoactive 5, Instinct). Something like that. Would have been great to have a load focus on this one, though, as the instinct as a non-running watch has it
Price point, features sold me over the instinct 2. Am more of a cyclist, so cardio, strengthen & yoga is all I need when am not using Edge 520 plus lol
I think the Forerunner family offers a great range of watches with different builds and capabilities at many different prize points, making it a watch that can cater for almost any requirement. One thing though, which means I will never consider buying a Forerunner myself, is that it is not offered with a sapphire lens but only gorilla glass that, in my opinion, scratches way too easily for an outdoor/activity/sports watch. I understand that it would not be feasible on the cheapest versions but if you are paying in the area of $600 for the expensive ones at least put a proper lens on it.
you are 100 percent correct in your rant at the end. you shouldn't have to sell your garmin and get a new one if you find a new hobby which your 300 dollar watch doesn't track but their other 300 dollar watch DOES track. absurd.
Love the review and bought a FR165 Today! I like everything except the display... it's about HALF the brightness of my Venu or Venu 2+. Did you notice any problems with brightness?
@@ChaseTheSummit Thanks for the quick response. Yes I have it set for max brightness during activities and general use. Garmin asked me for photos since it's barely visible in sunlight. There was a software fix to 6.08 that does not seem to help.
Just for folks that may be interested. I did a hard reset on my FR165 and the display got considerably brighter about midway thru booting up. I'm guessing the 6.08 software update caused the problem....
@@ChaseTheSummit At this point I don't think even that is guaranteed. Probably there will be a Fenix 8 but after that I would not be surprised if Garmin went ahead and eliminated the control group :)
I'am a begginer runner, my sporty activity is only : Running. I used FR45, but FR45 the diameter is too small for my hand, but 265 or 965 is too big. So Maybe 165 is my next gear. Still waiting this product comes in my country
Great review. I'm in the market for a new Garmin & price/features wise I thought I'd decided on a FR255 (non-music version). The cost of the FR265 is over budget. I had no idea Garmin were about to launch the FR165 which is basically the same price. The main differences I can see between the 255 & the 165 are that the 255 has triathlon/multisport, better battery life and a slightly larger screen although the resolution on the 165 screen is better. I'm mainly a runner, but have completing a triathlon on my maybe one day bucket-list. As I'm a bit long-in-the-tooth my eyesight isn't what it was & I need glasses for reading. But don't need them for distance/driving or running. But I do struggle to see watch faces. So, in your opinion which offers the clearest face with the largest visible digits?
The main noticeable difference is the type of display used in these watches. The 255 has a MIP display which some will find "dull" compared to modern day AMOLED watches. While the 165 has an AMOLED display and will have more of an "apple watch" looking appearance. That may or may not be what you're looking for. Other than that the 255 hs a few advantages including multi-sport support and longer battery life.
@@ChaseTheSummit I don't really care about the type of screen. But I do want something that is crisp/easy to read (ideally without my glasses on). I currently have a FR230 but the battery is on its last legs. I can read the time on it just fine. And I can just about make out screens during my runs - as long as I limit the display to just 2 data fields. Any more than that and it's just too small.
I recently got a FR255, I initially thought the screen would be an issue (coming from a Venu SQ2 with amoled) however, i now much more prefer the screen of the FR255 and the fact there is no touch screen :) @@RenegadeRunner
My rant: certain models lack the pause / resume later function. Luckily the FR165 has it. Not sure about the Vivoactive 5 or the new Venu series. I hate when you have to pause and the watch saves the activity after 20ish minutes. (sometimed even without warning)
Thx for the detailed review! The 165 totally came out of nowhere for me. It’s been a while since the release of the FR 55. Do you think they are phasing out this watch and using the 165 as the entry level instead?
That's still not clear. For now the 165 is considered the "entry level" into the Forerunner. Garmin hasn't stated whether or not they'd be updating the 55 to a 65 or anything.
Hey! I'm new to the channel, but old school hrm guy. Just wondering: I know the accuracy of wrist based hrm's is decent. For years I've used several old school hrm's including Polars and a few others. All had chest bands, and all were very accurate. Most of the watches that came with were set up for hrm and some hrm zones. That was it. Simple. The new watches are really pretty with color displays and all, but (here's the real question): can all of them work with the tried and true chest bands? I know most of them have bluetooth connectivity, but can I shut off the wrist hrm and use the watch as a receiver for a more accurate chest band??? Great channel!! Thanks for what you are doing!!!!
Yup, most modern day watches support external sensors including this one. Garmin still supports the older ANT+ standard as well as Bluetooth while most other brands only support Bluetooth. I regularly use a Polar H9/H10 and Garmin HRM without an issue.
I noticed that you put "BT + ANT+ Full support" on Coros Pace 3.The Pace 3 does NOT have ANT+, it was one of the things that got removed between Pace 2 and Pace 3 :) Love my Pace 3 but I do miss it sometimes when connecting to spinning bikes at the gym!
I just ordered this baby, my first running watch
Big mistake: Coros Pace 3 is overall better on this price
Not necessarily. Depends on end use cases.
@@Anwrimos23 Completly false. I got the Pace 3 and gave it back. The screen is opaque and the touch screen is slow, meanwhile the 165 has an OLED screen (basically the same as a smart phone).
The pace 3 is not better than the 165 in anyway other than price. The Pace 3 is $229 and the 165 is $250 (with no music). I always bring my phone with me so the music feature was useless to me, so I got the 165 and I'm happy with it. $20 is not enough of a difference to get the Pace 3 IMO.
The only people that should get the pace 3 is people on a budget that like to bring their music in their watch. Other than that, get the 165.
@@Anwrimos23big mistake pal
@@Anwrimos23coros pace 3 and forerunner 165 differences are so minimal its actually just personal preference dependent on the runner at this point.
I hear you 100%, on garmin kinda needing to reduce the friction in their models.. some of the models make no sense. Great job on the video
I got my 165 two weeks ago and love it!! The face is bright and colorful and I appreciate the touchscreen controls.
What a nice surprise! Excellent details! Thank you! Please make a video compering 165 with Coros Pace 3
I wanna see that video too
Definitely. I want this video too
garmin just have spotify compared to pace 3, am I right?
Thanks for this awesome comparison. Just starting out with regular running and going for FR165.
Thank you for making chart...very useful!
6:53 flat glass basically sold me by itself!
All in, Coros Pace 3..
See ya, Garmin!
Excellent breakdown. Appreciate the comparison to the Coros Pace 3!
I went with the FR 165 over Coros Pace 3 for the Spotify connectivity alone. Love not having to take my phone on runs anymore. Have had it for a week and absolutely loving it so far!
You're absolutely right about the line-up being confusing as hell. I'm shopping for my first watch and man... Garmin is all over the place.
I am looking to upgrade from my 5 year old Forerunner 45. Lots of great info in this video. The chart helped me out a ton. I agree with your point about the music version should be $250 to begin with. I considered and researched Amazfit & Apple watches but the Garmin just suits my needs the best. I will most likely go with the 165. Thanks for putting this together.
Love the rant at the end, followed by: "on the other hand, that's why I have this youtube channel". 🤣
I've been using my Fr745 for many years now and it's showing its age. Tempted by this cheaper watch, but the lack of multisport means I'll probably be heading to the 265 when the time comes.
Very expensive option look for coros pace 3
I just ordered it, thank you very much for these easy to follow & and In-Depth reviews!
Big mistake: Coros Pace 3 is overall better on this price
I love it. A good looking sports watch with a fair pricing is exactly what i was looking for.
Well, it is very interesting model, for sure.
Concerning the comparision with Coros Pace 3, Pace 3 also has temperature sensor (however, in the latest firmware it is used only for water temperature measurment in swimming activities) and trail run mode. Also Garmin Pay would be worth mentioning in the comparision tables, because that feature may be important for people who choose between Forerunner 165 and Pace 3.
But for lack of certain activity profiles and extra $ for music support, it would be a true Pace 3 killer.
Edit: other reviews show that Forerunner 165 does not have a metronome, and lacks altitude and atmospheric pressure widgets (despite having a built-in altimeter sensor). These tiny details move Forerunner 165 further from "Pace 3 killer" status, imho.
Yep both have temperature sensors. Garmin connect is certainly a selling point!
Was just about to buy a 255 so this 165 came out of the blue! Very timely video and trying to work out which to get now. I want running dynamics data so great if 165 has this and with screen maybe better option as I only need for running.
What did you end up doing?
@@VanquisherFantical I decided only way to get all I wanted was wait for 265 to drop a bit in price! Hoping can get a Black Friday bargain!
I agree with your rant. I follow you, DCR, DesFit, Legrand and I still get confused by all the lineups. I consider myself an informed consume, but enough is enough. It's hard to recommend watches to others because Garmin's algorithm doesn't make sense on why some watches get certain software features.
This is a great option for people (like me) who find the 255 too big and don't like the 18mm strap on the 'S' models.
Exactly!
That and the flat screen! 👌🏻
Amazing work here! I'm not sure I love the 'Run' on the select button but this watch should be enough for a lot of people. I'm thinking it'd be an ideal recommendation for many of my cross country athletes. Also, I'm seeing a few tiny scratches on your 965. I'm sure it's only noticeable when it's reflected off the studio lights but I also wonder about those slightly domed screens. 🤔. Stay classy out there buddy!
The 965 has a screen protector on it with plenty of action seen. I need to replace that!
Hey Dave, great idea with the spreadsheet! I would love to also see size of watch face and number of metrics that can be displayed on that list.
Thanks for introducing super useful comparison table. I am about to order my first Garmin and it helps a lot :)
Great option with the 20mm strap, but I fell in love with MIPs display on my 255s 😂
Me too! Love my FR255, it’s very underrated, in my opinion.
Why MIP better?
I just ordered Forerunner 165 my first Garmin running watch. I think was a good choice 😉
Super helpful and a good line up of comparisons. I am planning to go with 165.
Well prepared review and enjoyed the charts.
I am only really interested in the next version of the Garmin Tactix (8).
Great! This seals the deal. I'm ordering a FR165 and upgrading from my Fitbit Inspire 2 that I won from a granola bar box (not joking, the code made me instantly win). Super stoked. I'm waiting a couple weeks though for the 20% Garmin coupon from the Optimity app to be applicable to this watch. They aren't applicable to watches to watches released within 60 days of launch date.
Great video! Thank you particularly for the charts you made! I love that Garmin has lots of watches; juxtapose Garmin with Fitbit that only introduced ONE tracker in 2023 - that’s it.
Is there a 165S? 43mm is too big for smaller wrists. I’m accustomed to 40 mm on my Venu 2S.
Glad it was helpful! There's only one size of the 165 at this time. No "S" model yet!
I never thought I would never switch to apple, but I recently got the Apple Watch SE 2 gen with LTE. It costs 330 USD where I live. It's hard to believe it's almost the same price to the most entry level watch from Garmin. But the SE is basically a mini smartphone on my wrist. So much cool stuff on it. Apple Maps directions while running is amazing. The drawback is that I have to charge everyday, but that's OK in 95% cases. In the last 5% I'll use my garmin :)
For sure, the SE is a great watch! The only limitation is really the battery life.
Do you find the apple SE as accurate regarding distance as the Forerunner 165?@@ChaseTheSummit
Excellent review + rant. Thank you !! Yep, going for this watch.
Great review, as always. I might just pick up the 165. I use HRV4training for training readiness/load kinda stuff nowadays, so don't need it in watch. And now that the low end model has trail running activity (about time time!), i think it has everything i need. Mapping is the only truly useful feature lacking, but that's several midels, and hundreds of dollars, up the ladder in any case.
Had it for about a week. So far so good.
I’ve just purchased this and was toying between Vivo active, really good insight so thank you! I’ve moved from an Apple Watch so all new to me!
I've also got a Apple watch. How have you found the 165
Wooh excited for my 165 tomorrow😂 thanks for the 4mos installment tabby❤
What's your thoughts on the 165 after having it a month or so ?
Thanks for the review!! It was very useful and I think I’ve made my decision
I’ve got the Fenix 3. Keen for a brighter screen now. The simplicity of this seems great.
Thank you for this video! I am especially grateful for the time you put into that handy comparison chart. I found it incredibly useful 🙌
Why the watch appeals to me:
I'm a runner, but have been using Fitbits for the last 4 years (Versa 2 and 3) to track my overall health. I've loved the overall Fitbit UI, metrics, etc., but as I take the next step in my running journey (really getting into trail running), I'm looking to transition into a more running focused watch. This watch is really interesting to me, as it's at my perfect price point and seems to have the right DNA combo of smartwatch/running watch. The 55 screen seemed like a giant step down + I wouldn't get the music version of the 165, as I don't listen to music on trail runs + my tread and road running is either done with Peloton or at run clubs. I don't need all of the features of the $400+ watches...
On your Garmin/market competition notes:
The wearable market is weird and going through a lot of changes and trends (mainly that the biggest global growth is in high-end watches + really low end wearables) - so I imagine the mid market ($100 - $399) will continue to be crowded as companies figure out how to compete with Apple's growing share. I think Garmin has a strong profile in the $400+ range, but the mid market is just saturated right now, as you mentioned.
Lastly, a tiny rant:
I'm just getting a little tired of everyone complaining about feature tiers. These are businesses folks - whether it's Fitbit with it's subscription, or Garmin with holding back certain software features for pricier devices - companies are looking for ways to make more money off of us and sustain their growth.. given market dynamics, I imagine their hope is to push people to the $400+ 265, which is a market segment that has good growth - they don't want to totally undercut that flagship product...
The 265 has been around a while, and the new 165’s screen is so slightly smaller, the rest of the 265 isn’t worth the difference in the huge price jump, any longer. The 165 unlike the 265 is offered in a lower cost non music version. I didn’t check the weight difference to see if the 165 is that much lighter too, it may be. No big deal in batt life. Perhaps more are carrying cell phones as companions these days, except for swimmers, most certainly runners do as few in my opinion run with others. Distance running is a solitude activity, around the clock in just about any weather. The 265 is an always wear around the clock device, a so called human condition monitor as I call it, the instruction manual is ridiculous, and nothing is intuitive. So is the credits it gives to all those sources of the human condition / training experts. I see Garmin issued videos on how to program the 165, it’s just like the 265 in programming and can be applied accordingly. Same buttons too. The most expensive models just like big screen tv lineups,changed annually, are targeted to top end buyers, and overpriced accordingly. I find the 265 screen to read at all, responds faster than the Venu I had, I’d bet Garmin delays it purposely by degrading performance enough to be annoyingly a reason to upgrade, again. The connect app to a phone or tablet after the 265 downloads is the only place practical to analyze post race or training data, not on the wrist. Seems the 265 is the design model for the new 165 in too many respects, yet I don’t see a reason enough to blow the extra cash if one gets a 165 to go 265 later, hence the Garmin product development plan continues, to sell more and junk the rest.
Thanks for the comparison chart
I've been running with the Pace 3 as my first watch for the past 2 weeks. This one is really enticing since I'm still in the return window
Views on pace 3? Any good?
Think I'll keep my 255s for awhile. Great video ❤ love my watch
3 years minimum
Really Glad I picked up a vivoactive 5 last night. This looks great, but very similar.
This video was great. Alot of great information and comparison to other models. I appreciate your videos and your attention to detail on these items. I have the Forerunner 955 and will probably make the upgrade to the Fenix 7 or 8 if it comes out this summer or the 965. But the 165 looks like a huge upgrade from the 55.
Thanks!
Thanks for the really awesome review! I think i'lI buy one :D
The chart is amazingly helpful. Thank you
The only complaint I have about Garmin are the various models they make. It can be confusing to prospective buyers who are not already familiar with Garmin watches.
Awesome review
Bought one a couple of days back. Only issue is the complicated menu. More watch faces would've been great. Hope there'll be many additions with time.
this video was very helpful. on my search the pace 3 almost sold me, but i really want sleep score, race predictions and body battery so i’m going w the forerunner 165
Ah I absolutely agree with Garmin confusing the customer - I’m an Apple Watch user looking to maybe switch to Garmin yet I’m so confused with what to pick I probably won’t.
However, software costs a lot to make/develop so I’m not overly surprised companies are holding back certain features even though it is annoying.
Very nice watch. Great review as always, thanks Dave.
21:33 I completely agree. I am looking at the Garmin website and my head hurts. It’s confusing to have different options that are similar in features and price points. It’s just easier to get an Apple Watch, or galaxy watch
If you don't mind a MIP display the "old" Forerunner 255 is a better pick!
Yeah I think the decision will boil down to the display!
Mind? Prefer!
Why except for the display is the 255 better ? Just bought the 255 but i can still return it dont know what to do
@@rubenl9261 Bigger display, better battery life, triathlon, much more sport profiles, more data fields per each page during an activity, better GPS options, advanced training analysis like training load and training focus.
@@rubenl9261Bigger display, better battery life, triathlon, much more sport profiles, better GPS options, advanced training analysis like training load and training focus, more data fields per each page during an activity.
Don't get me wrong, the 165 is a super nice little watch to get you into (running) sports. But given the fact that the Forerunner 255 is about the same price now I personally would go for the it.
COROS Pace3 I think would be my preferred choice.
Thanks so much for this review, love the breakdown of features and specs. Heavily considering FR 165 or FR 265s upgrade from Venu SQ.
265s will be the upgrade and will fix you from feature creep.
very informative, think im gonna buy it right now haha
Thanks for summary
Vey good video, thank you so much for the research and the chart!
Great review. Although late, a small correction: Coros Pace 3 does not have ANT+ support AFAIK (but this appears in the comparison table in the video).
That was a mistake on my chart. thanks.
I live near the Big Alta course. I hope you finish as that's a brutal course. Bring high traction shoes it's going to be muddy. Thanks for your presentation of the Forerunner.
Nice! I'm excited to check out those rather smooth trails compared to the rocks and roots I'm used to on the east coast lol.
@@ChaseTheSummit When you're on the trail don't wander off into the tall grass as there are ticks. In the past I've seen mountain lions, a wolf, and rattlers. I don't think you'll be seeing any this time of year. Marinwood Market sells wholesome food. If you need any info of the area let me know.
@@IDYLBERRY thanks! We get nasty ticks here as well fortunately not this time of year. Probably add a bit of deet to the ankles as an insurance policy. Are you going to be on the course this weekend?
@@ChaseTheSummit No I won't be there as I'm not a runner, I'm a cyclist. I've hiked up there several times. It rained today to add to the runoff. Try to get out to beautiful west Marin and Point Reyes National Seashore.
@@ChaseTheSummitHope you had fun a did well.
Great video, I still have my forerunner 245 which works fine. And I guess it's actually quite similar to the 165, without the amoled screen.
Somewhat. It's a side step more than a straightforward upgrade. The only thing I'd really like from the 165 is HRV. 245 has a few things they left out in the 265 such as training status, training load, virtual pacer
new to running and currently own an Apple Watch Ultra. Intrigued by the Garmin offering but their watch line up confuses the life out of me and does seem like it could benefit from some kinda rationalisation between the forerunner, vivo active, fenix, Epix etc etc etc
love the videos and reviews though!
Currently have the Venu 2, will continue to use it till it dies, but this is a good replacement
Wow, excellent video! Loved the rant the end haha, I feel ya. Been loving the 165 but now you’ve got me wanting to check out the Coros Pace 3 😍
I think this watch (especially the non-music version) is going to be one of the biggest hits for Garmin ever. It has all the data that 90% of athletes and runners need, and the quality of the display is breathtaking. I'm going to buy one right now. Thank you for the review! Greetings from Spain! I think the throne of Coros Pace 3 is over.
Everybody talks about Garmin having too many watches but I like it. I want a Fenix for regular athletic training, an Instinct for my military stuff that has I’m super battery life and can take a beating, and a vivomove hybrid watch for when I want to track my fitness but think it’s inappropriate to be wearing a digital/smart watch, like office job or church.
Nothing wrong with options! I only get frustrated by the software limitations between each device. It’s super confusing understanding which feature is on which watch!
Love the video, if I needed an entry level watch then I'd go with the 165, I ve actually got a Epix Gen2 which I got just before they released the Pro! That's what frustrates me!
I'm def team apple watch, but i like seeing what else is out there.
Would be nice to see that Gen 5 HR sensor come over to the Forerunner line - I’ve been considering upgrading my 955, but at the moment it’s not buying much more than an AMOLED display
Thanks for the video. I am waiting for the fenix 8 😂
My Fenix 5x battery decided to die and cannot be replaced so I have to check a new one. This model ticks most of the boxes for my activities but of course, I would miss the Fenix feel and now I do not feel to spend all that extra money. Definitely a serious candidate and good package for the price.
Nice video, I couldn't agree more. too many models, lack of features, and an app with too many menus. Garmin Keep it Simple.
This is the most informative video I've watched about the 165, thank youu 🤍 During my first 10km marathon I didn't have anything like this so I just tracked myself using my phone. Long story‐short, I dropped it and it broke 😭 Anyway, not making that mistake again so gonna get this for another upcoming 10k 🥳
Excellent review of the new Garmin Forerunner 165👏🏾👏🏾👌🏾‼️!
Though it has s priced at $249, it may cost more when it is released in India, perhaps closer to $350 (₹35,000 approx). At this price, the Apple Watch Series 9 is almost the same price! Wonder how the FR165 compares to that!
I got the Apple ultra but now interested in getting this one… wasn’t excited about the 265 though
Last holiday the 255 music was 299 usd at best buy. seems like the amoled is the only deciding factor if we want to stick with garmin
AMOLED is certainly the deciding factor here. The 255 has a few advantages like Training Readiness and longer battery life.
Great review. Seems like quite a lot of functionality for $300.
Awesome video, If I'm playing music on Spotify via my phone, can I still use the Non-Music version to control playback? (e.g. next song, play/pause)
Yes
@@ChaseTheSummit thanks for the info! Just ordered it after seeing your comment! My first running watch 😏
Is there a profile for indoor biking? (Edit: I've seen it, it seems to be there!) I'm really happy that strength training is there, together with HRV measuring. It looks way more appealing than the Vivoactive 5 at a similar price point. There are just too many Garmin watches with roughly the same functions out there!
Thanks for the review. I agree 100 % with your conclusion about confusing watch features. Just put all the profiles in all the watches, but mapping, extreme battery life and metal casing in the most expensive watches. Premium features like ECG and training readiness could be reserved for the mid tier and the entry tier is mostly separated by looks and built (Forerunner 165, Vivoactive 5, Instinct). Something like that.
Would have been great to have a load focus on this one, though, as the instinct as a non-running watch has it
@hornsteinhof7592 your comment actually describes the marketing strategy of Coros. Unfortunately, Garmin preferred a different path.
I'll take a Coros Pace 3 any day
why is that? I just got mine, but Im now unsure :(
Seconded - why?
I'm looking for a watch and I can confirm that Garmin has way too many models to choose from. So I may go with a Coros Pace 3, just for that reason !
Price point, features sold me over the instinct 2. Am more of a cyclist, so cardio, strengthen & yoga is all I need when am not using Edge 520 plus lol
FR 165 has Gamin Pay whereas Coros does not have contactless payment.. I have the Coros Pace 2 which is a fantastic little watch.
I think the Forerunner family offers a great range of watches with different builds and capabilities at many different prize points, making it a watch that can cater for almost any requirement. One thing though, which means I will never consider buying a Forerunner myself, is that it is not offered with a sapphire lens but only gorilla glass that, in my opinion, scratches way too easily for an outdoor/activity/sports watch. I understand that it would not be feasible on the cheapest versions but if you are paying in the area of $600 for the expensive ones at least put a proper lens on it.
I’d love to see the 965 with sapphire.
you are 100 percent correct in your rant at the end. you shouldn't have to sell your garmin and get a new one if you find a new hobby which your 300 dollar watch doesn't track but their other 300 dollar watch DOES track. absurd.
Glad they were helpful! The 165 only comes in one size.
Love the review and bought a FR165 Today! I like everything except the display... it's about HALF the brightness of my Venu or Venu 2+. Did you notice any problems with brightness?
That's odd mine was really bright. In fact, it might even be brighter than my 965. Did you adjust the brightness settings?
@@ChaseTheSummit Thanks for the quick response. Yes I have it set for max brightness during activities and general use. Garmin asked me for photos since it's barely visible in sunlight. There was a software fix to 6.08 that does not seem to help.
Just for folks that may be interested. I did a hard reset on my FR165 and the display got considerably brighter about midway thru booting up. I'm guessing the 6.08 software update caused the problem....
Is Garmin totally throwing away the transflective MIP displays on the Forerunners? As cool as the Amoled is, I really prefer the MiP.
I have a feeling it will be AMOLED moving forward with the exception of the Fenix line. I could be wrong though.
Amoled = more wear = good for business.
@@ChaseTheSummit At this point I don't think even that is guaranteed. Probably there will be a Fenix 8 but after that I would not be surprised if Garmin went ahead and eliminated the control group :)
@@ChaseTheSummit Better order a FR 255 quick then 😰
@@robhunt8378if I was in Garmin's shoes, I would stop Epix line and I would release the new Fenix 8 line with two options: Amoled and MIP
I'm really surprised it has so many 965 features. The non-music one is such a great deal imo.
At $249 it's a great value!
I would really like to see comparison video with Coros pace 3 since they are the same price where I live (non music version forerunner)
great comparison! really enjoyed it. Garmin's on-line Choose the watch for you flowchart is a Joke. This is the real deal.
I'am a begginer runner, my sporty activity is only : Running. I used FR45, but FR45 the diameter is too small for my hand, but 265 or 965 is too big. So Maybe 165 is my next gear. Still waiting this product comes in my country
Great review. I'm in the market for a new Garmin & price/features wise I thought I'd decided on a FR255 (non-music version). The cost of the FR265 is over budget. I had no idea Garmin were about to launch the FR165 which is basically the same price. The main differences I can see between the 255 & the 165 are that the 255 has triathlon/multisport, better battery life and a slightly larger screen although the resolution on the 165 screen is better. I'm mainly a runner, but have completing a triathlon on my maybe one day bucket-list. As I'm a bit long-in-the-tooth my eyesight isn't what it was & I need glasses for reading. But don't need them for distance/driving or running. But I do struggle to see watch faces. So, in your opinion which offers the clearest face with the largest visible digits?
The main noticeable difference is the type of display used in these watches. The 255 has a MIP display which some will find "dull" compared to modern day AMOLED watches. While the 165 has an AMOLED display and will have more of an "apple watch" looking appearance. That may or may not be what you're looking for. Other than that the 255 hs a few advantages including multi-sport support and longer battery life.
@@ChaseTheSummit I don't really care about the type of screen. But I do want something that is crisp/easy to read (ideally without my glasses on). I currently have a FR230 but the battery is on its last legs. I can read the time on it just fine. And I can just about make out screens during my runs - as long as I limit the display to just 2 data fields. Any more than that and it's just too small.
I recently got a FR255, I initially thought the screen would be an issue (coming from a Venu SQ2 with amoled) however, i now much more prefer the screen of the FR255 and the fact there is no touch screen :) @@RenegadeRunner
@@AK8T3 thanks that's good to know
My rant: certain models lack the pause / resume later function. Luckily the FR165 has it. Not sure about the Vivoactive 5 or the new Venu series. I hate when you have to pause and the watch saves the activity after 20ish minutes. (sometimed even without warning)
Thx for the detailed review! The 165 totally came out of nowhere for me. It’s been a while since the release of the FR 55. Do you think they are phasing out this watch and using the 165 as the entry level instead?
That's still not clear. For now the 165 is considered the "entry level" into the Forerunner. Garmin hasn't stated whether or not they'd be updating the 55 to a 65 or anything.
Hey! I'm new to the channel, but old school hrm guy. Just wondering: I know the accuracy of wrist based hrm's is decent. For years I've used several old school hrm's including Polars and a few others. All had chest bands, and all were very accurate. Most of the watches that came with were set up for hrm and some hrm zones. That was it. Simple. The new watches are really pretty with color displays and all, but (here's the real question): can all of them work with the tried and true chest bands? I know most of them have bluetooth connectivity, but can I shut off the wrist hrm and use the watch as a receiver for a more accurate chest band??? Great channel!! Thanks for what you are doing!!!!
Yup, most modern day watches support external sensors including this one. Garmin still supports the older ANT+ standard as well as Bluetooth while most other brands only support Bluetooth. I regularly use a Polar H9/H10 and Garmin HRM without an issue.
I have a question, will they release a 165s? I have the 45s and I love the size of it. I’m planning on getting this watch this summer 😄
I'm just in the market for a new watch my Forerunner 630 has been through it.
Can you please do a video comparing this to maybe the apple watch SE of Series 9?
Would have been nice if they included execution score for DSW. It seems a bit pointless to have one without the other.
I noticed that you put "BT + ANT+ Full support" on Coros Pace 3.The Pace 3 does NOT have ANT+, it was one of the things that got removed between Pace 2 and Pace 3 :) Love my Pace 3 but I do miss it sometimes when connecting to spinning bikes at the gym!
Yup that's a typo. I knew there would be one in there!