The Eagle Scout Who Did Just the Minimum
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ส.ค. 2024
- A scout, especially an Eagle Scout is missing out on the promise of leadership if they do just the minimum. ScouterStan experience this first hand. By the time he was aware of it, it was too late to help. It became a real struggle to expect something more from a Scout who would only do the minimum. What can we do… it's quite clear that the requirements should be followed as written. We would like to think that Eagle Scouts would show initiative and do more than just the minimum requirements. This is also an underlying issue with Scout Spirit. This can be very interpretive and nebulous by design. As Scouters, we know it when we see it. But it's never really been defined more than taking the Scout Oath and Law to heart. It's difficult to define but you can do it to the minimum required. Almost like “going through the motions” but does not really mean anything and is hollow.
⚠ Note: This video is based on a real experience and situation. The names and descriptive information have been withheld to give the scout anonymity. Please don’t ask me for names as I will refrain from divulging them. I hope to use this experience to help to prevent it from happening again.
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📊 Poll (7/6/22): The American Scouting program has established the highest rank as an Eagle Scout. Youth that achieve this lofty accomplishment are looked upon as the example. In your Scouting experience have you ever encountered an Eagle Scout that was discouraging? (82 Votes)
21% Every Eagle Scout I've met was awesome.
71% Most of the Eagle Scouts I've met we're good.
6% I've never met an Eagle Scout.
2% All the Eagle Scouts I know are not good.
0% I don't know.
⏱ Time Stamp & Video Jump List:
0:00 The Eagle Scout Who Did Just the Minimum
2:37 Scout Skills and Leadership
4:30 Eagle Board of Review
5:38 Stepping Up as a Mentor
7:26 Scout Spirit
8:50 Scouter's Joke of the Week
#scouterstan #scouts #scoutleader @ScouterStan © 2022 S Richards LLC
What do you call a guy who finishes last in his class at West Point? You call him Sir. What do you call a guy who meets all the requirements for Eagle Scout? You call him an Eagle Scout.
What do you call the one who finishes last in his class in medical school? Doctor.
It’s not a competition but I get the point. Be all that you can be
Hear me out: all people who earn Eagle are youths when they do. As youths they don’t always fully understand what it means to be an Eagle Scout due to emotional maturity. I have probably learned more about what it means to be an Eagle Scout as an adult, than I ever could comprehend as a youth. “Once and Eagle, always an Eagle” means that you are always learning and discovering what it means to be an Eagle. You live as an Eagle and thus become more of an Eagle as you live. In some ways you are almost forced to see your self as an Eagle and your own conscience kicks in. I’m pretty sure the young Scout that is being discussed here, will come to understand what it means.
I love this so much. It's very true though.. as a youth we have so many thoughts and emotions going through our heads and sometimes it's hard to have the bigger picture in mind.
I did the bare minimum to earn my Eagle Scout, but to be fair it came down to a choice, running out of time I had to make the decision either push forward and earn it or don’t. I have learned a lot more since then, best decision I ever made.
As a Sr in high school in 1991, I was my Troop's SPL, I lettered in three sports, I was in the HS musical, I took extra chorus during my lunch and had solos in the spring performance, I took multiple AP classes. All without having a car. I got my 21 MBs and eagled out at the last, a true screaming eagle. I'll be damned if anybody told me I did the bear minimum
Did he meet the requirements as written? If yes then I welcome him to the nest. It's all about experience and learning opportunities. I guarantee he will use these skills later in life. I left scouting shortly after making Eagle when my family moved to another state. Rekindled my love for scouting later in life and now am very active in my unit, district, and council....and sometimes other councils. Don't count him out just yet..
Agreed!
Good point. Some Eagles spread their wings and learn to fly later than others. But if you could have seen how close he met the requirements… most would not know he did. In regards to “Scout Spirit” only he knows. YIS⚜
Agree 100% My son is an introvert, but the seeds of good values have been planted. I see the growth in him and how he lives the Scout Law.. Every child is different and you don't know what they have to deal with at home. So if you perceive them to be mediocre, don't discount them nor make them feel bad about the fact they are not who you think they SHOULD be. You might be surprise how much good scouting will do for them when they are 40, 50 70....
I completely disagree with you on this one. My son gets mad when scouts return to the troop last minute right before they turn 18 to do the minimum eagle project. He says “I don’t even know who these people are”, “they haven’t been here putting in the hard work like I have”. He’s life scout and held several positions in the troop including SPL.
I politely remind him that they worked their butt off to get to life in order to come back and get their eagle. And we as leaders (I do all the BOR for are troop and my wife handles all the med forms) preach the importance of achieving eagle that only a very small group can call themselves eagle. How in the world can you come on here saying that getting eagle is only doing the bare minimum?!?! An eagle is a eagle is a eagle no matter if they did the minimum or was a complete over achiever and did all the merit badges. People have lives outside of scouting and we as leaders don’t know everyone’s home life. Maybe his parents weren’t supportive and he struggled to get to meetings? Maybe his parents worked 2-3 jobs and simply didn’t have time to support him? Maybe he was an introvert and the thought of leadership terrified him? My point is that there is a whole host of things that we don’t know about the kids we serve and it’s none of our business unless we are brought into it.
I know when I do BOR’s they will sometimes open up and give me a glimpse of their home life and their future plans. I’ve heard everything from my parents are making me do this and won’t allow me to get my drivers license until I get eagle to I am only hear to have fun and don’t care about advancement. We as leaders are hear to support those scouts and show them that we care and we are there for them and support each and every one of them no matter if all they want to do is have fun.
You said you don’t know want happened to him. He could have went on to be an upstanding member of his community, no matter where that is. At the end of the day, a bare minimum Eagle Scout is still a Eagle Scout and that should be praised.
YIS
ASM Terry W.
Thank you for sharing your passionate feelings about this issue. It's always reassuring that we both have the same enthusiastic thoughts _(even though they're not the same)_ about achieving the highest rank in Scouting. The video was intended to be thought-provoking _(positive or negative)_ and I feel it was successful in that endeavor. It is totally expected and intended that you may disagree with having a different point of view. Normally I would answer your questions within your comment, but I believe they are meant to be more rhetorical and supportive of your point. Thank you so much for adding to our discussion. YIS⚜
We have to be careful when we use subjective measurements for requirements... we already have "Scout Spirit" as a requirement. At the end of the day, the only question that can be asked is "Did the Scout fulfill the requirements?" If yes, then the Scout is an Eagle.
Yes, I agree that he did all the requirements and is an Eagle. It's just that… it's very sad that he missed out on the entire point of being an Eagle Scout. Hopefully, someday, down the road… who knows? YIS⚜
@@ScouterStan How did he miss out on the "entire point"? Does he not have an advanced skill set of outdoors, first aid, citizenship, etc? Did he not participate in the program? Is there a special definition of Scout Spirit that includes definable non-requirement related activities, attitudes, thoughts, etc, that he missed? Frankly, I have known some highly active scouts with what you might define as "high scout spirit" that have turned into absolute turds. They are still Eagle Scouts.
I am an Eagle Scout - ( Also - Order of the Arrow ) I can tell tell you for a Fact. The Majority of my Scout Masters were not Leaders. Some did it for Political Advancement - Some did it for Military Advancement - I Did it despite them. In the end I retired from the Service as an Unlimited Horsepower Chief Engineer. US License & an International License. It's the Boy !!! All the Boys in WW2 that Received Honors didn't do it because of a Scout Master - They did it to Serve their Oath. Pushmataha District, BSA 1971
Absolutely agree with you. It is the youth that matters regardless of the unit leadership. I agree the focus needs to be on the Scout Oath and Law in regards to the development of awesome leaders like yourself. As unit leaders, we need to redouble our efforts in making sure that the youth don't fall through the requirements and do just the minimum. Thank you so much for your thoughts in our community and thank you for your service. YIS⚜
Why did the scout have his 'demonstrate scout spirit by living the scout oath and scout law' requirements signed off at each scoutmaster conference? There were many opportunities for the scoutmaster to intervene and say "no" you have not met the requirements, here is how you can improve on "I will do my best" part, and when I see that improvement, I'll sign-off.
I got my Eagle Scout at 14 but I had 11 jobs in my career and have 58 Merit Badges, now I have 69 and I’m serving two positions in my troop, and one position in my large chapter. I am 76-10 and I’m finding it harder to do Merit Badges, but I’m still trying to do them, Eagle Scout has helped me in a lot including the three sports I do, 4H, Youth group, and other things. Sadly, people still think of me as a person who tried to “ cheat the system” “ didn’t really earn it” but I busted my butt for it. OA at 13, brotherhood at 14. Eagle Scout and NYLT at 14 (within three days of each other) still active in my normal troop, Jamboree troop and lodge. I hope I’m not lumped with him, And I love your Content. YIS and God Bless
I don’t want to be lumped in with him
And just a fun thing to lighten the mood, my favorite Merit Badge is surveying because it’s a career I want to get into, and I did it with friends at the Jamboree
What a joke of a video. This is not rare at all considering that 95+% of all scouts don’t even do the minimum to reach the rank of Eagle. Didn’t the scout take on bigger challenges with each rank advancement? Is it not good that he finished every merit badge that he started? Did he not complete the requirements as written? Why do people continue to berate scouts who don’t fit their mold of the perfect scout? So many people also have similarly maligned issues with high achieving scouts.
I’m so glad you enjoyed the video. Normally the limit on questions is two. However, I'll answer all four.
(?) “Didn’t the scout take on bigger challenges with each rank advancement?”
No, this Scout didn’t take on bigger challenges instead the Scout did just barely enough to move forward.
(?) “Is it not good that he finished every merit badge that he started?”
Most Scouts don’t do only the required 21 merit badges for Eagle and nothing more. There are over 100+ merit badges he had no interest in at all? Not one? To this date, this Scout was the only one I know of with no additional or partial merit badges by Eagle.
(?) “Did he not complete the requirements as written?”
Yes, barely! Although “Scout Spirit” is questionable for some.
(?) “Why do people continue to berate scouts who don’t fit their mold of the perfect scout?”
This video was not intended to “berate” anyone. It was to bring this issue to the attention of the adult leadership to motivate mentoring of Scouts in their charge. Sadly this Scout fell between the requirements and was never coached or mentored.
Thank you for joining in the community conversation. YIS⚜
@@ScouterStan I think you're missing my points. 1) The rank requirements require scouts to take on bigger challenges in a variety of ways with each rank advancement. Maybe it's more difficult fitness related activities, more merit badges, more in-depth first aid, and the list goes on. Feel free to read through them if you need a refresher. A scout not willing to take on bigger challenges would stay at the Scout rank their entire tenure. Saying that this scout advanced through the ranks but didn't take on bigger challenges suggests you are not in touch with the requirements. 2) How many scouts have a pile of partials and never finish them? Is that better than a scout who completed everything he started? If you want to find the negative, you definitely found it, but there's plenty of positive that can be found as well. I guess it depends on what kind of a scout leader you are. 3) Barely is sufficient. Leaders, including yourself, are not authorized to make up additional requirements. What would ever be good enough for some scout leaders? And how many scout leaders would attempt to wield subjective requirements power to the point of abuse? We've seen it before. 4) You might want to reassess your intentions vs execution on this video as it is largely berating this scout and essentially encouraging other scout leaders to take the same judgmental approach. The amount of encouragement of leaders to improve their mentoring is nominal. And not only are you berating this scout, but also the 95%+ scouts who never even make it to Eagle as they don't even come close to completing all of the requirements.
Thank you for expressing your feelings. I'm so glad that the video got Scout Leaders to think about Scout Spirit. I can't really answer the questions you posed as their metaphoric to your statement. However, I think we would agree on most things. Including that this Eagle Scout should have had a mentor. YIS⚜
@@ScouterStan Dude. I'm specifically responding to YOUR OWN QUOTES in your video telling you how you don't make any sense. But when you're in the game for clicks, I guess this doesn't matter. If you were really wanting to encourage scouters to improve their mentoring, you would remove this video and spend more time focusing on this rather than berating this scout.
The context that you presented in your comment left me to believe that you were using the pretext metaphorically. Regardless, this video is intended to get leaders to reconsider mentoring Scouts towards learning more about leadership and Scout Spirit. For some leaders, this has hit them close at home. Either they experienced this issue as a leader or they relate to the sad Eagle Scout in this video. Either way, strong motivation is achieved towards being a better leader and mentoring Life Scouts. YIS⚜
Sir:
1. Your points before the Eagle Board of Review are well taken.
2. I am most concerned about the events at the Eagle Board and the subsequent effect on the scout.
2.1. Put yourselves in his shoes and that of his parents when they found out that their Scoutmaster wrote a letter requesting withholding the award after having met the requirements. Their total withdraw from Scouting from that point on, not even showing up to receive the Eagle Investiture, is not on the boy, but on his leaders.
2.2. He was a reflection of those leaders that failed to instill in him the traits of meeting the mark and go beyond it.
3. Your criticism of the young man could be better directed at the Scouter level. It's here where the opportunity for improvement lies.
Respectfully submitted,
A. J. Dutari Vlieg
Eagle Scout since 1977
This whole talk of him just doing the bare minimum is pretty demeaning. Flip it around the other way and said he did the work to meet the requirements you provided him to meet his accomplishment. Did this type of talk happen around the scout? Did this scout feel like he belonged? It doesn't sound like it because once he met the goal he set for himself, he disappeared. There is definitely missed opportunities here, but this type of talk about doing the bare minimum doesn't seem productive, just seems more destructive. There is more to this story about why this scout was there and why he did what he did, but the scout wasn't the failure here. He did what was required, his leaders on the other hand...
I earned my Eagle in 2019 at age 16, my junior year of high school. I was already serving my SPL term but I decided to stick it through and be there for the troop instead of dashing and burdening some 12 year old to do it for me. I stuck around all through COVID (my senior year) and upon graduating high school I registered as an ASM, vowing to come back and serve whenever I'm on college break. I'm proud of my will to commit to my childhood unit beyond the standard youth cutoff age. Although I recently found out this position code called "College Scouter Reserve" meant to give freshly aged-out scouts an opportunity to help out as general adult leaders during their downtime from college without the commitment of a specific registered position. No position patch but I may consider removing the ASM patch and being a "general" adult leader during school break under this position code. That way JTE isn't affected by my lack of attendance/trainings during the school year. Hey, I think I just came up with an idea for one of your future videos!
That is an incredibly good idea. I believe I did mention it as an option in a video but I don't believe I went into great detail. ( th-cam.com/video/EWt-C2C8vqM/w-d-xo.html ) I will put this idea on the whiteboard for Season 8. Thank you so much for the suggestion and thank you for your commitment to your Troop. YIS⚜
Thars amzing I am doing something similar
yeah sounds like an eagle scout to me. he literally did everything asked, never even did one thing that was not totally completed.
It’s not a military operation. That’s the disconnect in scouting. I went through 2 troops. One military, one that didn’t give a damn about rank. The youth needs good leaders and be able to be taught the best skills on earth.
I do not disagree with the premise that the Adults need to inspire and mentor the Scouts. However requirements were met and signed off minimum or maximum effort the results are rhe same.
My dad, a physician, had told an old joke for years, Q. What do you call the guy that finishes last in his Med School class? A. Doctor. FWIW, of his 4 Grandsons, 1 is an Eagle Scout and the another made life at 12 and is currently working on his Eagle project. The two others didn't pursue scouting.
Eagles come a wide range of experiences. Just cause they did the bare minimum doesn't make them less than an eagle. I am an eagle scout sure it is in my top three achievements. Not all us get the neroglogicsl different people. We need to respect the eagle not everyone has the same work ethic. Sometimes it takes getting fired from a job to wake up the work ethic. Or life changing event took beyond scouting to see the value of it. May need some growing up to do. Some scouts have a passion for scouting it's obvious others like donkey in Winnie the Pooh have a harder time being happy. Some have to learn the hard way unfortunately.
The standard is the standard. While it may be admirable to go "above and beyond," if he met the standards, then he's earned the rank regardless of how one may feel about his attitude.
I wonder if there was some external pressure that was pushing him in scouting more than what he wanted. I've known Scouts who couldn't have cared less about Scouting, but whose parents desperately cared about their advancement to Eagle Scout. This could be the same kind of situation.
Often times there's more going on than we see on the surface. It's good to dig deeper than simply saying "he lacked Scout Spirit."
In fairness, it's alot easier to earn Eagle scout today than it was 20-30-40 years ago.
Thank you for contributing to our discussion. As a district advancement chairman, I review a lot of the Eagle projects for my district. From my memory when I did my project (1980s) it was just a worksheet. The project workbook has 4 segments and multi-page questions that have to be answered before it is approved. The project is then reviewed as part of the Eagle Board of Review. The requirements outside of the project have been pretty much the same. This may be a misconception of people today. It's still quite amazing that young people can work hard to achieve this worthy goal and become Eagle Scouts. It would be easy to think that it is no longer difficult to achieve from the outside looking in. I assure you it is difficult just ask any new Eagle Scout. YIS ⚜
That Eagle Scout kind of sounds like me!
My scout master had doubts with me and didn’t think I took scouting serious, and he wasn’t the only one who thought that! I literally failed my first Eagle Scout board of review. They didn’t think I would be a good leader and worried that I wasn’t prepared for the future. I did eventually pass my second board of review.
Few years later I decided I want to fight for my country during a time of war…… To keep a short story short I joined the military, fought for my country in Afghanistan and tried to make there country a better place for the future world, I made it into the most prestigious team in my battalion, left the military and now I’m a doctor that helps people in my community.
People in my Boy Scout troop thought I only wanted to do the bare minimum in life. They probably didn’t think I would join the military to do a selfless duty to my country during a time of war, they also probably thought I would be a bare minimum guy with a poor future ahead of me in life.
The important thing is that your doing the requirements, repeating the scout oath, law, slogan, and sincerely believing that this is something to live by and something to work on everyday until the day you die, and honestly I didn’t fully understand the meaning to all of this until later in life. I don’t think we should look down on this unknown Eagle Scout for whatever reason, we don’t know what he may being forth in the future and to his community.
Thank you for your service and for posting your comment here. This was more of a failing of the Scout Leadership than the Eagle Scout who did the minimum. Very often things turn out rather well and assumptions are proven wrong. YIS⚜
I think the Scout leadership did want the best, but when you’re somebody who doesn’t laugh or have the greatest sense of humor, and you’re told you are just doing the minimum that doesn’t mean you don’t deserve to be an Eagle Scout.
He doesn’t sound motivated and has no other activities outside of scouting (teenagers always have distractions, we just need to pin point what it is), probably just needed somebody to have a deep conversation with and have a mentor that he personally looked up to. The sad thing is that he probably never happened.
This doesn’t only sound like a kid who didn’t want to do the bare minimum, but also sounds like a kid who lacked mentorship from his scouting leadership. You can’t lead somebody if you don’t know where they been, they wont follow your lead. If we as leaders don’t have the proper tools to lead every scout, who’s fault is it?
What would drive somebody to pursue the goal of Eagle Scout when the scouting community doesn’t fully apprectiate you?
Well said Something to really think about and consider. YIS⚜
Disagree. The freshly minted Eagle Scout probably needed to move on to the next phase in his life. If scouting doesn't like the "bare minimum" standards you are denigrating, then move to have scouting increase the standards.
I’m a youth working on Eagle, and I wanted help from my troop, but I felt like I was brushed off every time. I would ask for merit badge opportunities, campouts, etc, but nothing would come of it. The breaking point for me was when the SPL told me there would be a PLC in August, so I could attend (I’m a troop guide), but he changed it to 3 weeks early, and ironically while I was at NAYLE. This was irritating to me because the PLC for June was skipped by him, the ASPL, and two patrol leaders. Then they rushed to have one while I couldn’t attend because I was across the country at Philmont. Then, I told them I was leaving the troop when I return from Colorado visiting my dad for the summer. They all got mad at me for some reason, but everything was fine because I ignored them for the time being. That was until the July PLC, when a patrol leader told me they were talking crap about me. I got mad, we argued, but in the end I blocked them. This whole situation was demotivating to me. Nobody in that troop wants to do anything but hang out. The leadership doesn’t step up, so the adults do stuff for them, and they ignore my suggestions. I’m the only NAYLE trained scout and one of three NYLT trained out of a troop of 25. Point is, I feel like they drag their feet with everything, and try to blame me for arguments and failures in the troop. So I’m leaving, but not quitting scouts. I’m going to my little brother’s troop (he didn’t join with me because the SPL was rude to him all the time, and they talk crap about him, which he’s 11), and making a Sea Scout Ship. I wanted to do so much, but they wouldn’t. I doubt they’ll all get Eagle, but if they do, good for them.
Thank you so much for your feedback. Whatever the issues are that cannot be resolved, quitting Scouting should not be the only option. If you can't solve the issue upgrade to a better unit. Sea Scouts is a wonderful option. All scouts beyond First Class Rank can continue towards Eagle Scout in their advancement in a Venturing Crew or Sea Scouts Ship. Leadership can be very challenging no matter where you are in Scouting. If others are unwilling to change or consider your point of view then moving on might be best. Best of luck and good Scouting to you. YIS⚜
I think you’re looking at the glass as half empty rather than half full. Did he do the minimum? Sure, but they are the minimum requirements, meaning that’s what the BSA deems acceptable. Just because he didn’t over achieve doesn’t make it any less impressive, he still part of only 4% of all scouting youth who have achieved this, and does anyone who goes above what is expected of themselves make them any more or less an Eagle Scout? Just because it’s the minimum shouldn’t invalidate the achievement. Ex: I powerlift for a hobby. There’s an online competition I entered where the minimum requirement is to lift an amassed 1250lbs across the three main lifts, bench press, squat, and deadlift in a one hour time window. You send the video in to a committee to review, and they send you a tshirt. It’s pretty frivolous and more fun than anything. I am capable of lifting a fair amount more than 1250lbs across those lifts, but I opted to scale my weight down to slightly edge out the minimum 1250lb window. Did I still complete it? Yeah. Did I do the minimum? Yeah. Is it still a significant achievement? Yeah. But more importantly, would the review committee care at all if I tried harder to submit my true one rep maxes? Not in the slightest, and it might have hindered me as my form probably wouldn’t be as good because of the extra weight. That’s my two cents.
Thank you for your service to our youth. I am Eagle Scout class of 2008 myself.
I get the point your trying to make here. But the requirements are the requirements and completely the requirements are what matters. Requiring a Scout do more than what is written is a violation of the rule of more or less. Again I get the point your making and agree with you, but let's remember we don't set the requirements.
If you want to become an Eagle Scout, you have to earn it, and it needs dedication, it isn’t just something you go and do like he did.
5:30 doesn’t the scouts of america have the right to refuse an life scout to their eagle? our troop is strict about leadership and how their actions effect others and the commmunity. sometimes our scoutmasters requires some eagle applicants to wait before they achieve the rank of eagle scout so they can have a last min change of self and learned
By the time this scout went up for his Eagle, he had done everything but just up to the minimum of requirements. National does have the authority to refuse a life scout. But they would need serious infractions of the rules. Eagle Scouts are held to a very high standard by scouts, scouters, and the general public. To have only done the requirements to their minimum is quite telling and not only of the scout but the adult scout leadership in the troop. It was truly a shame that he slipped through the cracks so fast never to be seen again. YIS⚜
Have you ever sat on a eagle board or know anyone who has sat on one and voted no this scout does not deserve the rank of eagle?
Yes, I have represented my district advancement on many Eagle Board of Reviews. By the time a board is formed if there are any reservations it is discussed before the Life Scout is introduced. At that point, the board is all in agreement to proceed. After all, this is a board of REVIEW, not a retesting, inquisition, interrogation, or trial. It's plainly to review the requirements and paperwork that have been completed. Questions of the Life Scout are to make it clear to the reviewers that the lessons of Scouting and leadership are part of the Life Scout's character and morals. It’s not really a vote with a “Yes” or “No” at the end. It's more of are there “any objections” (?) to the reviewed information. If there are objections then the board adjourns to reconvene with the additional information or hands the board's findings over to the Council Advancement team. Thank you for asking this question. It's important to clarify the Eagle Board of Reviews structure to understand it. YIS⚜
As long as he finished all his requirements then he is an Eagle Scout. Adult cannot have too high of expectation for kids at that age. They are at HS, with extra curricular activities, shadowing college, trying to juggle Eagle requirements in between. You can only Do Your Best even it is bare minimum. Do it whole heartedly.
If the kid did it all himself with little help then well done. If the kid is 14 then most likely dad did it for him. I think there should be a rule that you cannot earn Eagle before the age of 16 as a minimum.
I am 14, and I just finished my term as the SPL about three months ago. My troop has 3 aspls because it is bigger compared to others. Only 1 out of the 3 aspls showed up at meetings and campouts. What was worse is that 1 pl never showed up and 2 others had to be babied. It felt stressful being the spl under those positions, and I could feel that not a lot of people liked me as the spl even though I gave it my all. Now im working on my Eagle project. Hopefully, getting it approved by the committee chair and the district approval. I plan to be making a free little library for my church, but I am worried that it is not enough because I won't be needing a lot of scouts to help me with it. I'm thinking of doing a book drive so more scouts will be able to attend. Im just afraid that some adult leaders think im not trying, I had a lot of expectations when I was the spl, but i was given minimal help from both adults and scouts.
Leadership can be a challenging experience. As a youth leader, you find out rather quickly who is going to help you and your Troop. As scout leaders, we often say that _“Scouting is a safe place to fail”._ Of course that does not mitigate the emotions attached to that failure. It's far more important to concentrate on what you did right. There are scouts in the unit that truly do look up to you and will help you with your Eagle project. As the Advancement Chair of my district when I'm evaluating Eagle Scout project proposals I often look for leadership opportunities within the project descriptions. Make sure that you concentrate on some of the basic skills (edge method, listening skills, etc) of leadership. Other people's opinions about whether a project is worthy or not, aren't relevant. Being true to yourself and pushing your project just one step further shows bravery and good leadership. I encourage you to talk to your Scoutmaster about future leadership opportunities within the troop. Troops need experienced youth leaders like you to become Den Chiefs. I know that might sound crazy, but the most important position outside of the Senior Patrol Leader is the troop's Den Chiefs. When you are finished working with the den and the crossover into the troop you can become a troop guide for the new scout patrol. Keep up the good work and I'll see you on the scouting trail. YIS⚜
I only got up to first class because I was taken out of scouts by my parents. I was 9/10th of the way done with Star, 1/2 way done with Life and 1/2 way done with Eagle. I know if they had kept me in I would have made it to Eagle Scout. I'm an assistant scoutmaster now but I remember everything from my youth. I might not be an eagle but I identify as an eagle.
I'm worried about becoming that scout. I think I will just be on that line of earning my Webelos and arrow of light. I already was just on that line with my bobcat badge.
Not to worry. This TH-cam channel is meant for adult Scouter leadership. Everything here is Scout-appropriate and youth often view the videos. Some of the concepts and subjects can be confusing for some youths. Whenever you have questions ask your parents for guidance. _(Remember the skills you learned in Cyber Chip.)_
Me, this was me lol (Not the person specifically you listed in your story but I relate to this). To be totally honest as well, this was everyone at our troop. Every summer camp every table would be singing all the same scout songs, except ours was silent, apply that to just about anything scout related and it was the same. The scouts would just always ask around to each leader for requirements to see who would give out a requirement the easiest and that was the way to move up. Our troop had negative amounts of scout spirit, but yet our troop basically had close to an 80% rate of Eagle Scouts for anyone who stayed longer than like 2 years (We had a smaller/medium size troop maybe like 25-30 kids at any given time), because we kinda had this silent understanding we were there to get the award and get out so we could use the Eagle status to get further in life.
I think a decent amount of it stemmed from the adult leadership just wanting their kids to be Eagle Scouts more than actually wanting to be a scout leader, but it's also on the scouts themselves for really exploiting that at the same time. By no means would the adults let you slide on a requirement if you didn't do or know something, but they would really try and find the path of least resistance to get you through.
We had the best times as friends at the end of the day tho and had the best of times, especially outside of scouts a few years removed now we're all still close, but the meetings were more social to us than anything. The troop is still doing pretty decent as of today and from what I hear not much has changed at all despite new adult leadership.
Nope, it is not you in the video. However, it is interesting how this has brought out some reflection on your past. I believe that many former scouts can reflect on their past and see where there may be some comparisons. The video was intentionally intended to highlight the failure of leadership. Being an Eagle Scout and our society is held to a very high standard. To do the minimum and to be rewarded for it seems to be a contradictory definition. Even though your unit may have been a type of *“Eagle Mill”* you still had the best of times and still are friends with your fellow scouts today. My sincere hope is that you hold dear the principles of the Scout Oath & Law. If this is retained and it wasn't just going through the steps to earn the title then Scouting worked. YIS⚜
I think a lot of people that become Eagle Scout are highly active in Scouts until they are 16ish and then start having social/sport/family pressure outside of Scouts - they then do the bare minimum to finish things out. As long as the Scout embodies the proper values, I’m glad that they finished the journey to Eagle Scout. Would it be better if the Scout just quit because all they could do is meet the minimum requirements? Would you stop short of a goal if someone guilted you to not finish?
Thank you so much for asking the questions. There are minimum requirements that every Eagle Scout must complete before obtaining the rank. So many scout leaders think that Eagle Scouts set an additional standard for the quality of the scout. This is not always the case. Inevitably, there will always be Eagle Scouts that make the minimum the standard for themselves. This does not diminish their accomplishment or absolve the new Eagle Scout from taking on that role for the rest of their lives.
Young people do have a lot of things going on and this makes it even that much harder to earn this lofty goal. No one should be guilted into thinking that they have to finish even if it's at the minimum. This is their goal and no one else's. Scout leaders need to understand that we are here to facilitate and mentor young people toward their goal of becoming an Eagle Scout. At the end of it all, an Eagle Scout is an Eagle Scout. It's what they do with that that counts for the rest of their lives. Thank you so much for contributing to our channel discussion. YIS⚜
@@ScouterStan well said. Good to have you posting and educating anyone who’s interested.
At the end of the day they are an Eagle Scout, that is why I always like to ask others who say they have the rank what their project was, what their board of review was like, what their favorite miscellaneous badge was? If I get them remembering something from that I look at them as a good and well rounded Eagle Scout. Otherwise they met the requirements welcome to the nest.
Stan, why didn't you mentor this scout? He was in your troop? Sour grapes...
The most sour grapes in my history. We really miss an opportunity to help the scout. It was over before we could do anything about it. Really sad. This is become a message to look for in your own troops. YIS⚜️
I dealt with it a bunch. The kids from the United States military got fast tracked to eagle. It was almost impossible for true Americans to advance.
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I'm looking for the videos I'm in. 1980's
I agree that having the drive to improve one's self and be a team player is desired. By belittling this scout who followed the rules and met all the requirements brings into question your leadership even if your intentions were good. It's never too late to mentor. Think of what this young man could have been doing with his life if he had not applied himself to the BSA? People are extremely complex and you can not put them in the same mold. Time always tells who's the leader in the room. As the years pass, we look back at our troops and admire and laugh at what we did or were afraid to do. I looked back and wondered how my scoutmaster was ever elected to that position. Overall, the experience was priceless and influenced the life of this minimalist.
Thank you for expressing your opinion. Unfortunately, this scout was lost in the system of a big troop and it was too late to do anything about it. I know that all the leaders involved suffered greatly from the disappointment. However, it has been a real-life lesson and it has not happened again to my knowledge. YIS⚜
It's been a while since anyone in our district has been able to earn Eagle Scout this way. Our District Advancement Chair, for a long time, has gone out of his way to make sure that our district does not produce Paper Eagles.
The Eagle Scout Projects must demonstrate leadership on the candidates part.
I know of several scouts who have managed this back in the 1980's and early 1990's, including one from my troop and one in my troop has tried since then, but he was not able to because he could not put together the leadership credentials required to complete a service project.
I agree with you. The whole thing with this scout is we failed him up the ladder. Learning from this mistake has benefited Life Scouts moving forward in our area. But at the end of the day, he is and will always be an Eagle Scout. YIS⚜
The proof of demonstrating leadership is vital to having the eagle workbook signed off for approval. This shouldn’t be a rubber stamp but often is and I appreciate any leader who would say no to a proposal that doesn’t show leadership. This would have been the last moment the unit had with this youth as described in the video to mentor them. Would it have changed this scout’s proposal much? Who knows but it would have allows him to experience adversity and how he overcame that adversity would have allowed unit leaders to have had more opportunities to mentor him to show more scout spirit. This isn’t slowing a youth down on the trail to Eagle. It’s using what methods we have to achieve the aims of scouting.
@jennhudson912 - That is a really good point. Unfortunately, by the time we were aware of the situation the project had been approved and the Scout was already working on completing it. Not that anyone even knew it was going on. He completely fell through the cracks. The video intended to have leaders think about their Scouts and to make sure that Scouting principles have been installed in them. Leadership needs to be a big part of the Eagle Service Project. As Scout Leaders we need to make sure that no other Scout ever falls through the cracks like this again. YIS⚜
Years ago I had a scout something like the one you describe. Somehow the principles of the Oath and Law never made the slightest impression. I still consider it to be one of my biggest failures as a Scouter. Everything was done with the absolute minimum amount of effort. He passed his Eagle board at 14 and never attended another meeting. We asked if he could stop by occasionally and lend a hand with the newest scouts. He said that he now could put Eagle Scout on his college application and that's all he ever wanted from BSA. I spoke to another scouter about it who said " I'm not really surprised, I can't remember him ever stopping to help anyone. " Badges are fine and Eagle medals are great ( I have one myself) but I would rather go camping with a second class scout who is Helpful, Friendly, Loyal and Kind.
Wow, I totally agree. I have mentored many Eagle Scouts (except for this one) and I'm very proud of all of them. I still think that the major point is Scout Spirit. The Scoutmaster needs to make sure that this is talked about in great detail. It's a shame that some parents push their children to achieve Eagle Scout only for a resume point. You and I both know it's more than that. YIS⚜
There was a kid in my troop who quite during a hard time in the troop. He was a self centered narcissistic egotistical jerk that only cared about himself. He only enjoyed scouts because of the people and if he where to continue with scouting was to get eagle, but knowing him he would’ve done the bare minimum. To be honest I’m glad he quit he was a sorry excuse of a spl making me do most of the work as his assistant, probably about 90% of it and just not being a scout in general towards me and others. The only reason he never got in trouble for not being the nice was because he faked it near other scouts and adults.
It's true that some Scouts that have an ulterior motive, often weed themselves out. It's impossible to live by the Scout Oath and Law any other way. Eventually, it all catches up to you. Sometimes they sneak through by doing just the minimum and nothing more. Unfortunately, there are people out there struggling. Scouting helps young people make good life decisions by instilling them with the Scout Oath and Law. _You can always throw a lifeline to someone in need. But they have to be able and willing to grab the line._ YIS⚜
Sounds like you had a possible covert narcissist on your hands. There solely for the title, and gone....
I saw in an older video that you used to be apart of MaKaJaWan Lodge 40. I am currently apart of the lodge, and I regularly go up to MaKaJaWan. I staffed an NYLT course up there a couple weeks ago too :)
When did you leave the lodge or area and did you ever get to go to MaKaJaWan? Please share your experiences!
I did answer your question from about two days ago about MaKaJaWan. My response was kind of delayed as I was celebrating my birthday with my family and I wasn't really monitoring TH-cam on the 4th. Check it out when you can, but if you can't find it I can repost it here. Let me know. YIB⚜
Great
I’m a boyscout and am currently trying to figure out if it’s entirely worth still going to scouts I’m currently still going because I want to get eagle so I’m. More likely to get a job or have a higher chance of employment or better work benefits. my point is I personally don’t enjoy or am very interested in scouts because my main goal is get Eagle so I can have hopefully better employment. please reply if you have anything pointing to whether Eagle Scout helps or doesn’t help with employment because I’m on the fence on wether I should keep scouting and until I can find a good reason to quit scouts I’m still pushing for Eagle please share your opinion if you have one by replying to this comment
Thank you for Reading
Thank you so much for posting your comments about this video. Please keep in mind that this video is meant to generate thoughtful reflection on the high standards that Eagle Scouts are often compared to. Most of the videos on our channel are specifically for our adult audience although there are many youth subscribers. Everything on this channel is scout-friendly. This video is not meant to denigrate Eagle Scouts in any way. After all, I'm an Eagle Scout too.
Becoming an Eagle Scout is more than just a line item on your resume. It represents a true commitment to the principles and values of Scouting which are found in the Scout Oath and Law. Many Life Scouts do not realize it but the Eagle Scout application is a job application. Being an Eagle Scout is keeping the commitment that is found in our Oath and Law for the rest of our lives. There are benefits to being an Eagle Scout. This shows employers that you have moral commitment and leadership abilities. When it comes down to choosing two identical candidates the Eagle Scout always rises above. Being an Eagle Scout also shows college admissions staff that you are capable of completing tasks and schoolwork on time and will do better than others in most things. On the other hand, Eagle Scouts are held to a higher standard where failures are overly emphasized. It's a lifelong job of keeping your Oath and Law present in everything you do. It is a huge commitment with rewards and penalties for the rest of your life. I hope this answers your question about the importance of becoming an Eagle Scout.
From your comment, I am curious as to why you “don’t enjoy” Scouting. If there are issues with your Scout Troop, maybe finding a different Troop would be better than quitting. I often think of this as an upgrade. Find a Troop in your area that does exactly what you want to do. That it listens to its scouts and lets the scouts run everything. Think about it and choose a path that you feel is best for you. I wish you all the wisdom in the world at this critical junction of your life. I hope to see you someday on the trail. YIS⚜
Great topic this week. Unfortunatelly, there are also adult leaders who are doing just the minimmum. Need to keep an eye on those too and motivate them. We (adult volunteers) are role models for every cub, scout, rover...
So, what kept this boy in Scouting in the first place? Why bother? It almost sounds like a kid doing something due to some other influence. Granddad was a lawyer, Dad was a lawyer, so I will be a lawyer, even if I prefer to paint watercolors. Was this Scout's Dad an Eagle who pushed his son to do something that didn't capture his heart? Regardless, there's more to this than just BSA requirements or adult leadership in the troop.
Think this is more to do with the lack of “Scout Spirit”. This Eagle Scouts family was almost invisible. I think I met his mother only once. I was there on the day of his EBOR and he was alone. If he was a family legacy of Eagles the whole family would be there. Sad, the whole thing was sad. YIS⚜
Thanks for doing this video, Stan. I've been waiting for this one since you posted the short about it.
We have the exact same situation with a Scout in our Troop. Up until about 10 months ago, I had never even met him, as he hadn't attended a meeting in almost 3 years, and the only reason he showed up then was because he needed a Board of Review for Life, since he was going to age out in March. He ended up taking advantage of the various pandemic-related provisions & waivers to qualify & get an extension. To my knowledge, he still hasn't completed all of his eagle-required merit badges, and everything he's done has been the bare-minimum, including his project. The only time he ever shows up to meetings is when he needs something signed off. Personally, I don't think he deserves to be an Eagle Scout, and other adults in our Troop agree. He has an older brother who's an Eagle, but I don't think this kid has been interested in Scouts for years, much less in becoming an Eagle Scout, but I think his mother is pushing him to do it. It's a sad & disappointing situation, but unfortunately, the system isn't set up to prevent such things.
I agree it is very sad to see this happen. If the Scout is not participating with the Troop then they would not be able to give leadership as required in the Star and Life rank. Also, the maximum extensions possible for Covid are expiring at the end of September. Units can have the required levels of participation specified within the Troop's code of conduct. Otherwise, it is up to the Troop Committee to decide on appropriate levels. The Scoutmaster can also talk with the Scout about the lack of participation and Scout Spirit. If this is still going on as a Life Scout there's very little that can be done to change the situation into a positive. Unfortunately, most Scouts that have extensions like this and do not participate, find it very hard to make their deadlines. YIS⚜
I think that the parents have some influence on this. If they just want to get it done, ✔ the box as it were, with no care for the unit, the organization or the impact of the effort then neither will the scout.
Good point. YIS⚜
I will start with this, did you or the troop ask probing questions as to why there was a lack of engagement? (Word this conversation however you please) But were they any concerns brought up with the scout, his parents, or even the parent leaders of the patrol? Are there areas of note that the scout was did not excel in, but might have been to finite where in the scout finished said merit badge, rank requirement, etc. but wasn't encouraged to pursue even after making the "mark"? I have to agree with Wesley Sparks - Call him sir, even if this young man (now I have to consider young woman) just made the bare minimum, this is above the washout rate for all of BSA when looking at all ranks leading up to Eagle, yet failing to make the Eagle requirements. Maybe this young man was just "going through the motions" just because "Dad did it, so do I". But if this is so, and the troop council didn't uncover this, this is a failure on the troop. So don't drag this boy's name through the mud. Period. The troop could have been more engaging in a vast array of opportunities and yet they did not. Instead, you tried to counter argue that he "wasn't ready for the Eagle Rank" - which makes me sad for your troop in particular. "He never gave back to the community".... I will challenge, how is this founded? How do you know that he isn't chasing after a Ham Radio license to run comms for a local group - free of charge? How do you know that he isn't working at a food bank, a shelter, or volunteering with the Red Cross? There are a vast host of ways to give back to the community that isn't under the BSA umbrella. This young man, was a YOUNG MAN! I didn't know what I was doing at 15, 17, hell even 21. But! I made the impossible happen. Here is the spark notes of my story. I was family friends with a family friend who was part of my troop. Well at 13 I had an altercation with the boy who was involved with in my troop. We will call this young man X (YMX), agent X had dad X (DX). At a point YMX was playing with my older friend - Fred - and YMX/Fred (both 2 years older than me at the time) stopped playing Basket Ball to chuck rocks at my sisters riding their bikes to "knock them off cause it was funny". I took offense, told YMX & Fred to stop, they didn't, and so I took the situation into my own hands, I punched YMX leaving him with a bloody nose and I choked out Fred until his mother came out. After being chewed out but Fred's mother and my parents, I didn't realize that I made my scouting life a hellish ordeal. Why? YMX told DX his version of the story, DX was heavily involved in the troop I was in, and he took it upon himself to make my progress to Eagle as difficult as possible. Long story short, I found allies in the adult leadership of the troop, showing them some level of mastery/competence where DX said I "failed" and they started to see the smoke screen. By 16, I sat down with my trusted leaders and asked "How can I become Eagle, I am so close to not making it because of DX's blockaids, what can I do?". During this meeting I realized I couldn't rely on the troop for my Eagle Scout project due to other families being on DX's side, so I went rogue, used my church's youth group, specifically on leadership skills. I took a small youth group leadership team and trained them to be leaders, these leaders helped me a retreat to teach the same things to the whole of the youth group to become future leaders. The council was blown away with this project. Yeah, I barely made the volunteer hour limit yet I made it! I had my board of review after my 18th birthday and my court of honor there after. But I would have been Eagle if it wasn't for Mr. DX. (Yes I am a better man than you and your two sons with all the palms they have... because I have integrity). I would argue that I, and Eagle Scout that just BARELY got his rank, was more deserving of the rank that one of the son's of Mr. DX, do to their blatant disregard of the Scout Law. Don't believe me, if you have contacts at your council, look me up, Eagle Rank granted to me on 9/14/05, Troop 395, Council 412. DM me if you don't believe me. The main point I want to drive home is this young lad's performance was a failure of you and your adult leadership council as I suspect there were underlying problems. However, despite your failures, there is another Eagle Scout in the world who even by meeting "expectations", will far out strip many of his own age because he does know what work means to obtain a goal. There are Starbuck baristas still struggling with this concept. You are wrong as this young man will take his leadership skills beyond your narrow scope know as the BSA.
Thank you for expressing your story and feelings here. This video tends to be controversial to many because I believe it hits a tender spot regarding what Eagle Scout means. To many like yourself overcoming adversity and perseverance towards a goal of Eagle has a tenancy to build character. When I joined the troop as an Assistant Scoutmaster this scout was already a Life Scout. I asked the existing leadership about my concerns about this scout with probing questions. Astonished by their answers that they had no idea who this scout was. It's not uncommon to be unfamiliar with every scout in a large troop. But to have no stories or memories of any kind over the years from anyone is amazing. Every boat can't help create a wake in the waters in which it travels. This Eagle Scout amazingly “created no wake” or friends, no memories, and no influence of any kind on anyone. It has been many years since this Eagle Scout achieved the rank. To this date, this Eagle Scout has accomplished nothing other than this rank. To many of his family, he's become completely invisible. I hope that someday I hear about all of the great and wonderful things this Eagle Scout has done. But after all this time I don't think we will ever know. Regarding your statement; _“So don't drag this boy's name through the mud.”_ Throughout the video, and all of the comments this Eagle Scout was never named or identified in any way. Theoretically, the existence of this Eagle Scout could even be fictional and the premise of the video would still have the same effect. Thank you for expressing your feelings about the video. YIS⚜
I just noticed you have Tipisa Lodge patch. My brother works for the Lake Apopka Natural gas company.
shame
@@TheFamousMockingbird He's a computer repair IT guy.
you should probably do a video about procrastination towards becoming and eagle scout. Tips from a scoutmaster
That is intriguing. A video about a Life Scouts' procrastination towards Eagle Scout. I'm going to put it on the whiteboard for this Season 9 as we have just started putting together the first 3 shows of 24. There are a lot of ideas flowing in but I think this might have sticking power. Thank you so much for the suggestion.
More great news I believe we have a spot on episode 17 which should air sometime in November. YIS⚜
Perhaps up requirement.
I don't think that upping the requirements would make any difference. There are so many requirements now that there has to be something that “sparks off” something more. Being able to tick all of the boxes isn't enough to define what is an Eagle Scout. There has to be something that scouting has actually become a part of that person's life. Or do we need to change our definition of what is an Eagle Scout? I was told many years ago that sometimes recognition comes before it is earned in the eyes of others. _“They will respect the rank but they will not respect the man unless he earns it… and the respect of good men is always hard-earned.”_ - George C Scott, in the movie “TAPS”. YIS⚜
Can’t you guys revoke anyones eagle years after though? (That are in your troop, of course)
Although it's extremely rare, only BSA National could revoke an Eagle Scout once approved. They would need a severe reason for this extreme action. Doing only the minimum requirements only puts the Eagle Scout at the bottom of the list. This was more of a leadership failure than an Eagle Scout failure. YIS⚜
@@ScouterStan Ah, alright.
I ran into people like that entire my entire tenure in the Navy. They're never outstanding, or go the extra mile. Mediocre parenting can be mitigated by great leadership outside the home, but it takes more effort to repair the damage done by said parents.
A snow bank?? 😳😳
This is quite off topic but I would like to know if your unit has ever been to goshen scout reservation summer camp as I will be atending it and have some questions if you have attended
I can confidently say I've never been to that camp. But from the Internet research, it looks really good. It's only 800 miles from my home in Central Florida. I have been to Skymont, Bert Adams, Woodruff, Rainy Mountain, Daniel Boone, and four or five more that I can't remember right now. I'm also excluding high adventure reservations and my local Camp La-No-Che. Now if you really wanna try something different how about tropical camping… Camp La-No-Che! Many times when I was up north camping it was hotter there than it was back home. Summertime camping is rough and knowing how to beat the heat is everything. YIS⚜
@@ScouterStan thank you I am leaving bright and early tomorrow I am exited I am a new scout a tender foot and this will be my first summer camp
That sounds wonderful. Remember to take your time and have fun with your friends. Make a daily trip to the trading post and get something special for yourself. Fill your days with activities and fun. You're only there for a very short time and before you know it you will be back home. YIS⚜
Wow, does this fall on the leaders? This would not of happened in our troop. 😐
It sounds like the requirements need to be updated!!
disagree, sounds like this scout leader needs to be checked
Had at least one of these kinda scouts in my troop, as a youth you ask them if he was busy last weekend during the campout, or why he hasn't been to a meeting in a month or 2. As their peers, we all kinda agreed they just wanted eagle for their resumes for college and jobs and never showed up after, other than another scouts eagle Court of honor.
Scoutmasters should have a focus discussion in their Scoutmaster conference about Scout Spirit. Ask questions about the Scout Oath and Law and how the Scout uses them in his normal non-scout life. Ask them a hypothetical question about a Scout who comes to meetings only for rank advancement. If they were the Scoutmaster, what would they say to this Scout? The answer would be surprising or shocking. Either way, the Scout is aware that the Scoutmaster knows and it's time to step up and do the right thing. Scout Spirit has a lot to do with participation. YIS⚜