A thought about the sun: We look at the sun and see its brightness and the things it illuminates. It looks warm. Comfortable. Easy. But imagine you are the sun. From the sun's perspective, it is surrounded by neverending darkness. If there is to be light and warmth, you (the sun) must create it. This is what it means to be a man.
Excellent video! Im someone who spent a decade gravitating between norse and celtic reconstructionist paganism,and so many of the issues i had,pretty much from day one,are addressed here. I picked up Fire in the Dark when it first released,and have read it at least three or four times now. The importance of a mythology and spirituality representing the actual people currently practicing it cant be overstated.
I just found your work a couple days ago! Reading your book Fire in the Dark now.. I’m beyond grateful for your work! Everything you say and have put together sits with me very well!! I have 4 young boys, and I wanted to raise them in a way that has a life affirming attitude, I’ve been studying all the old myths, religions, archetype, gods, hero’s, evolution, ancient cultures, spiritual practices, modern psychology, and philosophy, science, biology, and I’ve been seeing the connections of it all in hope in finding a path for raising my family, especially since I have 4 boys who will one day become men.
I will say I agree with many assessments. 80% and your message. What I'd say though is there are merits to study of orient traditions in mystery schools. I agree with utu ra fire solar activity. I think there are neurological aspects that can be obtained through applied study of these things. I don't think you don't value this as you use the illiterations and images of these ideas(what you could say). (Oh and the section 4 beginning music is fire 🔥 😉😁). I think stripped down gnosicism also could be a benefit like meditation and mind over matter or subtle energy exercises could be cool giving structure. For instance? I think many men feel this now? Is that environmental or some inner spirit tied to the Aten or father or fire spirit? Things you've probably thought about but I'd not neglect to mention.
12:42 You may think that apologetics is always rhetorical sophistry & clever word play, but here's my question to you Jack: what then is your epistemic grounding for making any objective truth claim at all? If you claim that it's nonsensical or foolish for any theist to make any objective truth claim, for example, then I can simply just throw that same exact retort back at you also when you yourself (though maybe naively) also make an Objective truth claim. Incontrovertibly, you've repeatedly made statements which Necessarily entail your belief in: Objective Truth, Inherent meaning to human life, Universals, Free Will, A Distinct "Self", Objective standards of beauty, Objective standards of "excellence", "competence", "light", "order", "strength" etc. Not trying to strawman you here (as I genuinely do appreciate your works & your content) but if one were to take the strict materialistic/naturalist perspective, how do you get all the above listed in an entirely meaningless, purposeless, chaotic, & predetermined, relativistic world? It is absolutely a fair question for me to ask you
I addressed this in my most recent newsletter and cross-posted it to X in a post titled "When Men Say God They Mean Order." A desire for an ordered world doesn't actually prove any given religion. I just says "I have chosen a truth because I think one is necessary, not because it is true." Which is what men often do. The constants we're talking about are of the variety that transcend any particular religion and very likely pre-date evidence of whatever religion you are running scripts for. They are cross-cultural. Things like "men and women are different" do not require religious texts to determine any more than "fire is hot."
I DO think it is rhetorical sophistry, but I also don't care what you believe. I'm not interested in converting Christians, etc. It sounds extremely boring and tiresome. My friend CB Robertson finds it far more entertaining than I do. Rest assured, you will never convert me -- so why bother having the conversation?
Also, as I addressed in the essay I mentioned above, the problem here is a false dilemma between universal truth and total nihilism. Total nihilism is, historically speaking, not a human norm. For most of history, humans lived in a tribal world where they knew other people worshiped different gods, and that was OK. Different people had different ways and values, though many people with different religions shared a lot of common values.
@@orderoffire Well, not to be a pedant but I did read your recent essay. One question I have is that you used the term "unnatural" in it when referring to the radical left. When dealing with anyone without belief in a God on the dissident or alt right (for lack of a better term) what exactly grants you the right to even use the term "unnatural". So you believe something exists outside of the empirically observable universe, something outside of nature itself? I may dislike the purple haired freaks of destructive chaos just as much as you do but if I were to take your worldview, wouldn't I have to bite the bullet & concede that they too were perfectly natural products of nature? I see this same contradiction with the likes of Academic Agent, Professor Ed Dutton, & Curtis Yarvin, though I still find their writings valuable in addition to yours.
@@thaimuayshoo1171 Everything that occurs is, to some extent, natural, yes. Murder and rape are "natural," but also "naturally" socially proscribed or controlled (in-tribe) by all known human groups. To say that humans have a "nature" is not a "gotcha" any more than it is a "gotcha" to say that animals exhibit a range of normal behaviors for their species. It is also natural for humans to try to manipulate each other. Like the "the world needs rules therefore you must follow the rules of my particular god" argument -- there really isn't much there beyond a word game. If you've chosen to believe something emotionally and constructed an identity around it, why bother playing word games?
I appreciate many of the concepts and ideas behind the creation of Solar Idealism. However, if you think about scenarios such as post appocalyptic world, the fall of Rome, the collapse of the Bronze Age, revolutions or wars... in this chaotic scenarios men really need the 4 tactical virtues and end up doing way better than women, so I incline to think that Chaos is more manly than order. In those scenarios, women don't do well. Women need order, security, aseptic environments to thrive themselves. Change my mind, I would love to read the opposite view.
Men create order FROM chaos. The chaos is what gives them an opportunity to do what they do. The worship of chaos is essentially the worship of death and disorder and a return to the nothingness of the womb. Embracing risk as an opportunity to demonstrate masculine prowess is not the same thing.
It is syncretic, but to my knowledge that’s a descriptive word and not anything that exists as a specific ideology or group. Many different ideologies could theoretically be syncretic.
Interesting food for thoughts. Just a quick note on fire: i was blazed to learn that trees catch and store the sun’s energy is their fibers. That’s litteraly the sun’s energy (light and heat) being released when wood fires up. Ain’t that amazing? Also, my question is, if Jesus (not the institutions) is an analogy for the sun and his myth encompasses the highest qualities of men, why would need to create new form of idealisms? Asking for a friend! ;)
“Natural law” tends to create fallacies and lends itself to cherry picking “natural” examples. Everything is natural, so far as I know. I’d say we acknowledge the existence of human nature, and aim to live in reasonable harmony with that.
So I'm a member of the Asatru Folk Assembly, which if you didn't know is trying to build a better culture as well. Steven Mcnallen, one of the founders of Asatru and the AFA, believes that religion influences culture and that culture influences politics. If you are trying to create a masculine culture the logic goes you need to first have a good religion as the foundation on which everything else is built. While your Solar idealism sounds very righteous its not a religion it's a mythic philosophy. So why would I go from Asatru, which already shares many of the same values and ethics as Solar idealism and has a strong foundation as well, to your mythic philosophy? The AFA does not try to recreate the past. It's very much focused on the future. And in your video you ask if your gods are real and the answer was "it doesn't matter". So why can't we have that same approach to the Aesir? We in the AFA don't believe our gods are right for everyone, they are strictly for our folk. The existence of the Aesir doesn't rule out the existence of other gods. I like what you got going on and I support it. I guess I'm trying to defend Asatru which you portray as outdated, archaic or lacking in some way. It's traditions are rich and relevant even today.
If you're coming from the AFA, we don't want you, so that's easy. I know exactly what that is and what culture they're building. I've actually met Steven and I have observed him conducting a ritual. If that's where you want to be, that's what is right for you.
![[안방1열 풀캠4K] 베이비몬스터 'DRIP' (BABYMONSTER FullCam)│@SBS Inkigayo 241110](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AQ4RIghEvUs/mqdefault.jpg)
A thought about the sun: We look at the sun and see its brightness and the things it illuminates. It looks warm. Comfortable. Easy. But imagine you are the sun. From the sun's perspective, it is surrounded by neverending darkness. If there is to be light and warmth, you (the sun) must create it. This is what it means to be a man.
Great observation and I agree.
Thank you helping to map out a positive, affirmative vision of masculinity using language the lends itself to concrete, tangible action.
Great to hear it described that way.
Excellent video! Im someone who spent a decade gravitating between norse and celtic reconstructionist paganism,and so many of the issues i had,pretty much from day one,are addressed here. I picked up Fire in the Dark when it first released,and have read it at least three or four times now. The importance of a mythology and spirituality representing the actual people currently practicing it cant be overstated.
I just found your work a couple days ago! Reading your book Fire in the Dark now.. I’m beyond grateful for your work! Everything you say and have put together sits with me very well!!
I have 4 young boys, and I wanted to raise them in a way that has a life affirming attitude,
I’ve been studying all the old myths, religions, archetype, gods, hero’s, evolution, ancient cultures, spiritual practices, modern psychology, and philosophy, science, biology, and I’ve been seeing the connections of it all in hope in finding a path for raising my family, especially since I have 4 boys who will one day become men.
That's great to hear!
Right on, Jack! I loved The Way of Men and Becoming a Barbarian. This is great.
Music right on point!.
Exciting times, indeed! The conflagration of creativity continues to cultivate. ☀⚡🔥
Your doing great work!
Thanks!
Enjoyed the video! I've had Fire in the Dark on the shelf for a bit, and will be starting it in the next few days!
This is beyond inspiring.
Great to hear.
You figured it out man, how the fuck did you figure it out.
⚡️⚡️⚡️
I will say I agree with many assessments. 80% and your message. What I'd say though is there are merits to study of orient traditions in mystery schools. I agree with utu ra fire solar activity. I think there are neurological aspects that can be obtained through applied study of these things. I don't think you don't value this as you use the illiterations and images of these ideas(what you could say). (Oh and the section 4 beginning music is fire 🔥 😉😁). I think stripped down gnosicism also could be a benefit like meditation and mind over matter or subtle energy exercises could be cool giving structure. For instance? I think many men feel this now? Is that environmental or some inner spirit tied to the Aten or father or fire spirit? Things you've probably thought about but I'd not neglect to mention.
☀️☀️☀️
Mind providing an amazon link to those lamps? Would love to purchase them through an affiliate link!
12:42 You may think that apologetics is always rhetorical sophistry & clever word play, but here's my question to you Jack: what then is your epistemic grounding for making any objective truth claim at all? If you claim that it's nonsensical or foolish for any theist to make any objective truth claim, for example, then I can simply just throw that same exact retort back at you also when you yourself (though maybe naively) also make an Objective truth claim. Incontrovertibly, you've repeatedly made statements which Necessarily entail your belief in: Objective Truth, Inherent meaning to human life, Universals, Free Will, A Distinct "Self", Objective standards of beauty, Objective standards of "excellence", "competence", "light", "order", "strength" etc.
Not trying to strawman you here (as I genuinely do appreciate your works & your content) but if one were to take the strict materialistic/naturalist perspective, how do you get all the above listed in an entirely meaningless, purposeless, chaotic, & predetermined, relativistic world? It is absolutely a fair question for me to ask you
I addressed this in my most recent newsletter and cross-posted it to X in a post titled "When Men Say God They Mean Order." A desire for an ordered world doesn't actually prove any given religion. I just says "I have chosen a truth because I think one is necessary, not because it is true."
Which is what men often do.
The constants we're talking about are of the variety that transcend any particular religion and very likely pre-date evidence of whatever religion you are running scripts for.
They are cross-cultural. Things like "men and women are different" do not require religious texts to determine any more than "fire is hot."
I DO think it is rhetorical sophistry, but I also don't care what you believe. I'm not interested in converting Christians, etc. It sounds extremely boring and tiresome. My friend CB Robertson finds it far more entertaining than I do. Rest assured, you will never convert me -- so why bother having the conversation?
Also, as I addressed in the essay I mentioned above, the problem here is a false dilemma between universal truth and total nihilism. Total nihilism is, historically speaking, not a human norm. For most of history, humans lived in a tribal world where they knew other people worshiped different gods, and that was OK. Different people had different ways and values, though many people with different religions shared a lot of common values.
@@orderoffire Well, not to be a pedant but I did read your recent essay. One question I have is that you used the term "unnatural" in it when referring to the radical left. When dealing with anyone without belief in a God on the dissident or alt right (for lack of a better term) what exactly grants you the right to even use the term "unnatural". So you believe something exists outside of the empirically observable universe, something outside of nature itself?
I may dislike the purple haired freaks of destructive chaos just as much as you do but if I were to take your worldview, wouldn't I have to bite the bullet & concede that they too were perfectly natural products of nature? I see this same contradiction with the likes of Academic Agent, Professor Ed Dutton, & Curtis Yarvin, though I still find their writings valuable in addition to yours.
@@thaimuayshoo1171 Everything that occurs is, to some extent, natural, yes. Murder and rape are "natural," but also "naturally" socially proscribed or controlled (in-tribe) by all known human groups.
To say that humans have a "nature" is not a "gotcha" any more than it is a "gotcha" to say that animals exhibit a range of normal behaviors for their species.
It is also natural for humans to try to manipulate each other.
Like the "the world needs rules therefore you must follow the rules of my particular god" argument -- there really isn't much there beyond a word game.
If you've chosen to believe something emotionally and constructed an identity around it, why bother playing word games?
I appreciate many of the concepts and ideas behind the creation of Solar Idealism. However, if you think about scenarios such as post appocalyptic world, the fall of Rome, the collapse of the Bronze Age, revolutions or wars... in this chaotic scenarios men really need the 4 tactical virtues and end up doing way better than women, so I incline to think that Chaos is more manly than order. In those scenarios, women don't do well. Women need order, security, aseptic environments to thrive themselves. Change my mind, I would love to read the opposite view.
Men create order FROM chaos. The chaos is what gives them an opportunity to do what they do.
The worship of chaos is essentially the worship of death and disorder and a return to the nothingness of the womb.
Embracing risk as an opportunity to demonstrate masculine prowess is not the same thing.
The pitch for syncretism?
It is syncretic, but to my knowledge that’s a descriptive word and not anything that exists as a specific ideology or group. Many different ideologies could theoretically be syncretic.
Rome never met a deity it didn’t like. That’s the light.
Interesting food for thoughts.
Just a quick note on fire:
i was blazed to learn that trees catch and store the sun’s energy is their fibers.
That’s litteraly the sun’s energy (light and heat) being released when wood fires up. Ain’t that amazing?
Also, my question is, if Jesus (not the institutions) is an analogy for the sun and his myth encompasses the highest qualities of men, why would need to create new form of idealisms?
Asking for a friend! ;)
Jesus is the weakest, most pathetic and ugliest god man has ever imagined.
Bro just join the Masons
So you would say that you follow the Natural laws?
“Natural law” tends to create fallacies and lends itself to cherry picking “natural” examples.
Everything is natural, so far as I know.
I’d say we acknowledge the existence of human nature, and aim to live in reasonable harmony with that.
So I'm a member of the Asatru Folk Assembly, which if you didn't know is trying to build a better culture as well. Steven Mcnallen, one of the founders of Asatru and the AFA, believes that religion influences culture and that culture influences politics. If you are trying to create a masculine culture the logic goes you need to first have a good religion as the foundation on which everything else is built. While your Solar idealism sounds very righteous its not a religion it's a mythic philosophy. So why would I go from Asatru, which already shares many of the same values and ethics as Solar idealism and has a strong foundation as well, to your mythic philosophy? The AFA does not try to recreate the past. It's very much focused on the future. And in your video you ask if your gods are real and the answer was "it doesn't matter". So why can't we have that same approach to the Aesir? We in the AFA don't believe our gods are right for everyone, they are strictly for our folk. The existence of the Aesir doesn't rule out the existence of other gods.
I like what you got going on and I support it. I guess I'm trying to defend Asatru which you portray as outdated, archaic or lacking in some way. It's traditions are rich and relevant even today.
If you're coming from the AFA, we don't want you, so that's easy. I know exactly what that is and what culture they're building. I've actually met Steven and I have observed him conducting a ritual. If that's where you want to be, that's what is right for you.