What happened to the As since Moneyball?
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The Oakland Athletics became famous in world sport for “Moneyball” - a way to win championships without the financial clout of the big teams.
Moneyball became replicated in all sorts of sports and became a path to success. But this is a story of how Moneyball destroyed the Oakland Athletics.
Mike Smeltz explains. Illustrated by Marco Bevilacqua.
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The worst thing Billy Beane did was advertise their strategy. Give a team with the resources of the Yankees and Dodgers an analytical front office and Oakland loses their advantage.
Lol you can't keep that stuff secret lmao
Other teams already knew sabermetrics long before the A’s success. It wasn’t even a secret
They picked up cheap players, how can that not raise a few eyebrows and do some digging.
It doesn’t make a difference, an employee will get a job at another team n spill the beans
@@Acquirebreadstrategy is a movint target. Cannot dwelp on a single strategy forever
"To be fair to Fisher..."
Let me stop you right there.
Lol lost me there. Fisher is a PoD
👏👏👏👏👏👏
2012 was a shock to the entire baseball world. They were so fun to watch. Tons of character and all the confidence in the world
Billionaires and begging for public money such an inconic pairing! Can't imagine the pain of seeing a team just uproot and leave after decades of support.
It’s Oakland who cares
It's not the first time they've left a city. Vegas will be the FOURTH city the A's will have called "home", after starting in Philadelphia, before moving to Kansas City, then Oakland.
The 2nd follow-up movie is called “Blackmail Ball”
I'm not even an A's fan (Giants fan here), I'm absolutely outraged about this. Fisher cheap self needs to sell the team. It is just horrible how the A's have nothing but bad luck with team owners.
Thanks for covering this, despite being a lifelong diehard Yankee fan I am still fascinated with the movie and is one of my favorite movies of all time.
Me too.
Billy Beane is now a minority owner of the As. Fenway Sports Group, which owns the Boston Red Sox, has won the World Series using Money Ball tactics. They also own Liverpool Football Club, and have won the Champions league & Premier League with these tactics.
and they so cheap till today regarding liverpool...they shop by statistic
Not saying that the Red Sox didn't employ moneyball tactics, in the movie Billy Beane even meets with the Red Sox for a job, but I seriously doubt the Red Sox's payroll was ever as low as the A's.
I will never get over how you yanks have normalised the use of taxpayer funds to build swanky new stadiums for billionaires, who own highly profitable franchises. Bonkers, nvm the idea of moving a club to another city.
Do you recall the reaction to Anthony Precourt talking up relocating Columbus Crew to Austin?
in other countries they do similar things, if not directly funding them then by giving tax breaks. Tottenham got a huge tax break to help fund building our new stadium because it was going to employ thousands of construction workers and bring in millions more revenue for the area every year.
Those stadiums employ local people, bring in money to the local economy etc.
Quite often the revenue generated for the city by having the stadium far outstrips the money they put in to build it.
Thankfully we seem to be near the end of this "era". Stadiums built in the last 30 years largely have been built on the promise of "urban redevelopment" which has not beared fruit. Several stadiums and arenas built or redeveloped in the last 5 or so years like Inglewood, CA's Intuit Dome or Seattle, WA's Climate Pledge Arena, have been done without taking money from taxpayers for the cost of construction, and owners who request taxpayer funds are hitting more obstacles now than they did ten years ago like the Hunt family in Kansas City, MO. Unfortunately, tax funds have been replaced with tax breaks and benefits for these newer stadiums like the aforementioned Intuit Dome.
As for the A's, there is no guarantee that John Fisher's move will work out for the Athletics. The Las Vegas project hasn't struck ground yet, they plan on playing a few years in Sacramento instead of Oakland or Las Vegas, and MLB is beginning to question the viability of Fisher moving the Athletics to Las Vegas. It's been a bizarre situation to say the least that is nowhere near resolved.
This isn’t a “yank” thing. And stop acting surprised just as an excuse to say something condescending
Get over it. Professional sports is a business, it’s always been about money. It’s not like college sports.
All my homies hate John Fisher
Thats what I hate about US Sports. How can you just move your city's team from one place to another like its nothing??? It's everyone's hometown team. My city has two football teams, every time they face each other the city just stops to watch the game. Imagine if they move one of the teams to somewhere else, would be unethical and really stupid
You can do it in the UK as well you just get alot more backlash, MK Don's are a prime example
@@hazzanfl9814 There's also a reason why MK Dons are the *only* example.
American sports are franchises its more like the league owns the players and all forms of revenue while the team just there for fans to get invested. Its also way more commercially tied than football that has very historical values going back hundreds of years. It's not like people don't root for their hometown team but the culture of american sports is completely different than outside the USA
Typical arrogant English person thinking their way of doing things is the ONLY way of doing things.
p.s. I'm not from the US or even North America.
Can anyone explain, why building a stadium for a private owned sports team is a public funding issue? In Europe this is a problem of the private company, subsidies for these kind of buildings are usually deemed illegal by EU law. Only with many exceptions public funding is done and then it is only a few per cent of the stadium. FC Valencia has to rightfully shoulder the building of the Nou Mestalla on its own, depending on the source these are a couple of hundred million Euros.
Capitalism for the many socialism for the few
US sports are franchises, meaning that its more like the league owns all forms of revenue and dictates what teams can and can not do way stricter than any non US sport. When it comes to stadiums There's always issues with owners and cities, either because of legalities, city refusing to cave to demands of the owners when it comes to building a stadium. Im not sure on this case but I believe its more acceptable for teams to not "own", as in its specifically only for this sport and team ,stadiums in US sports than in non US sports. After all they can just move their team to another city and have a better deal with them. There's been a lot of teams that do this.
Subsidizing the rich is the national religion in the United States
This highlights what is wrong about sports in USA...
so tell us more what is wrong about sport in USA?
no more like whats wrong with SMALL market teams with stingy ownership
@@feliyanusif relegation is existed in the US, which it should, instead of the greed we see present, there would be far more competition.
@@DaveSP196US doesn't have to do things like Europe. Pro/Rel isn't the answer.
@@DaveSP196the utter stupidity comparing regional leagues (prem la liga etc) to a national league which requires teams to fly to another side of a continent. Think about this logically and you'll see why relegation is not a thing in us sports
So, what you are telling me is
Oakland has technically (i say that because i think the Raiders moved to LA first) lost both its NFL team and its MLB team to Las Vegas ....wow
Raiders moved to LA in the 80s, moved back to Oakland in the 90s, and wanted to move back to LA a few years ago but the Chargers had first dibs at the market for whatever reason I forget, so the Chargers got to go to LA instead (the Rams were always going to be the second team since they were the ones mostly financing the stadium).
The Warriors went across the bay to a new arena in SF too. Dont know if that counts as "losing" a team since SF isnt that far from Oakland ...
Put an apostrophe in the title, it looks a little awkward
Umm You're missing a vital update...What happened to Billy Beane?? Would have liked an update on what he's been up to since Moneyball
He's...still w the A's
He died days ago.
@@eduardopedroza5336 That was Billy Bean, different guy.
Probably should have taken that job with Boston
@@eduardopedroza5336 😅😅I hope not! lol
Oakland's sport legacy has been destroyed by nepobabies.
Just finished the book so perfect timing lol
Love from Liam Nepal
It’s basically fantasy baseball, but productivity based. The key is adding the correct weighted values to each metric
The weirdest thing about the Oakland A's being the last team to leave Oakland is that it seemed like they were going to be the first team to leave Oakland back in the 2000s out of the teams that were currently based there. I remember in 2005 hearing a rumor at the A's were going to move to Las Vegas but it was a very minor rumor. A new ownership of the time promised not to move the team but then in 2006 they talked about moving the team to Fremont which would not have been much of a distance away from Oakland at all.
It seems Lew Wolff at the time was too ambitious and what he wanted in a new stadium by wanting it to be like the most highly technologically advanced place with Wi-Fi everywhere back in 2006. It's not to say Wi-Fi wasn't anywhere there definitely was public Wi-Fi at the time, just not very common. Even on The Tonight Show Jay Leno made the joke that it would be the most annoying stadium in the world because of all the people who would just be on their phones and laptops all the time.
That didn't happen so then they wanted to move to San Jose which honestly that probably would have been a great move. Yes instead of me having to drive 1 hour Southeast to get to Oakland I'd have to drive 2 hours south to get to San Jose but I don't mind. I've been to several San Jose sharks games including that playoff game when they beat the ducks 8 - 1 which was the first ever sharks game my wife and I ever went to, but the fact of the matter is I think San Jose probably would have been a good location. A lot of people don't seem to know this but San Jose is actually the largest and most populated city in the Bay Area. San Francisco is in fact second.
Speaking of San Francisco though, what was really stupid was that the Giants apparently might have been the main reason why the A's were unable to move to San jose. And that's because the San Francisco Giants have an a-ball minor league team in San Jose simply just called the San Jose Giants. Somehow that gave them jurisdiction even though that's not even a AAA or double a minor league team it was enough to prevent the MLB team the Oakland A's from moving there.
Now all these things they wanted to do or even before the San Francisco 49ers had moved South to Santa Clara where they really should renamed themselves the San Jose 49ers because San Jose is right next to Santa Clara and when the Las Vegas raiders were still the Oakland raiders they actually played closer to San Francisco than the San Francisco 49ers did. But this should put some things into perspective because the A's had wanted to move before the raiders and warriors did. Yet they ended up being the last team to move.
It's too bad because without any major professional teams in Oakland anymore, and already absolutely horrendous city to live in with crime through the roof and poverty a whole lot of jobs are now forever lost thanks to every team no longer being there. I have heard there are plans to use the Oakland Coliseum for something entirely different by some foundation but I forget what it was.
This kinda shows everything wrong with American sports really. Begging for Taxpayers and public to fund ridiculous stadiums for BILLIONAIRES, packing the team up and leaving...and so on.
The fact USian sport teams can just uproot to anywhere the owner feels like never made sense to me.
Lmaoo. Love that word USian. I'm gonna start using that instead of american
USian is never going to be a thing and is reactionary. Also, if the reason to say USian is that the continent is called "America", then "USian" also doesn't work given there's two countries in North America that have the words "United" and "States" (United States of America, United Mexican States). There is a basic understanding of colloquial Demonyms. In the Anglosphere, the continent is the Americas (or North America, South America) and the United States of America's demonym is American. However, in other spheres such as the Spanish speaking world, the continent is América and people from the United States are estadounidense
Stop acting surprised as an excuse to be condescending
@@AvrilAlvarez The correct word is "yank"
@@de132 shush yank!
This was great, thank you
Your content has been great so far. Please make a video about professional road cycling.
I hate this. Where tf is Joe Devine?
different channel this is the US version
@@mitch8072 You are correct sir, I still hate it.
Funny personal story about Moneyball: my Dad and I watched the movie earlier this year, and when it came to "the streak", Dad paused the movie and said "this is where the [Edmonton] Oilers are right now". At the time, the Oilers, our home team, were only at win 8 or 9 in a row, but they would go on to win 16 straight, tying a Canadian team record, and also going on to come 2nd in the NHL playoffs after an unfortunate game 7 collapse. The fact that all this happened after Dad and I watched Moneyball is kinda insane. Almost scary.
To use an analogy featured in the film......if you are a Vegas card counter, you don't let someone write a book and make a popular movie to show Casino executives. It only works when people do not see the value of players. When you tell them what to look for, you no longer have an advantage. Advertising what you did, inevitably diminished its value
No, I actually won't be fair to a billionaire blackmailing a city into funding his investment.
They are moving from Oakland to Las Vegas. Usually that means lousy ticket sales and no future in the current location. For mine, I would have relocated the team to New Jersey around Newark somewhere. License to print money there.
Oakland seems like a doomed place. All its franchises have left and the city is in a state of degredation
Newark is the Oakland of the East
Is it common for American teams to just pack up and move cities, in europe this would be insane, closest thing to happen is FC Wimbledon moving to Milton Keynes which is about an hour and a half away and there was riots and protests
@@kiertangaming7610 very common unfortunately. Team owners will often use relocation as leverage to force their city to use tax payers money to fund a new stadium
Traffic's not a nightmare out there? Thought that was the reason the Nets had such horrible attendance at The Meadowlands and moved to Brooklyn.
Why does every franchise leave Oakland. Golden State, Raiders and now the A’s have all left, feel sorry for the city because those are some of the best die hard fans you will ever see
And its not like teams didnt have success in Oakland. 5 NBA titles in Oakland, 2 NFL championships and 4 world series.
@@stackhat8624 The Warriors won 4 NBA titles in Oakland. They won 1 when they were in Philadelphia and the other was when they were already in San Francisco. If there was no free agency in baseball and the owners were still allowed to treat the players as slabs of meat on 1 year contracts with the reserve clause. Once the players were able to make what they were worth, the Oakland A's as a franchise kept being a cheap franchise rather than trying to win championships. Their run in the late 80s is still amazing, as the free agency era was in full gear at that time, but being cheap doesn't create dynasties in baseball.
The only franchise that didn't benefit from announcing a move out of Oakland is the A's. The Warriors announced in 2012 that they were moving, leading to 3 titles before the new arena was completed. The Raiders announced they were leaving before the 1980 season, and ended up with their 2nd title before leaving and winning another in LA after their move. The A's have been threatening for years that they were going to move, but they could never deliver a championship with that threat like the other 2 franchises and now they're gone.
Success to an owner though is not championships. It's how much they can borrow from banks against that valuation to do other things, along with how much value they can extract from the franchise once they sell it. The Yankees are worth over 7 billion and the A's are worth 1.2 billion. That's the scoreboard the owners watch, and moving to Las Vegas gives Fisher the best chance to triple the value in the next decade or so.
The As should just add another "S" at the end of their name.
Q: What has happened to the A's since Moneyball?
A: Nothing good.
The Raiders of the NFL made the same move less than a decade ago. How've they been getting on?
Made the Playoffs in 2021.
Then did the mistake of hiring Josh McDaniells as Head Coach
@@felixlueggerto Does Daniel Carlson still play for them? The first time I heard of him was during his short time with Vikings.
@@Ese96Agoaye Yes
So far for the Raiders, it's been "okay". It's questionable how much the stadium has benefitted the team, and will need to be determined over years. Mark Davis, who owns the Raiders, is one of the least rich owners in the NFL and there was a lingering question of whether he could actually get a stadium built anywhere (Oakland, Vegas or otherwise).
However, for the city of Las Vegas, it's mainly worked out. The Clark County Commission owns the stadium and collects funds and parking for most events that happen at Allegiant Stadium including various concerts, college football games, the 2024 Copa América, Super Bowl LVIII, CONCACAF matches, and professional wrestling events at the stadium. And this is the first venue in Clark County that the Commission owns (consider how much money T-Mobile Arena, for example, makes for AEG, Bill Foley and MGM. Although MGM does give the County some money for other projects. The business culture in Vegas is actually really odd, and a TH-camr called Neo made a good video about it)
In addition, NFL teams play fewer games at home (7-13 home games depending on playoffs, int'l games, etc) compared to MLB teams (79-103 home games depending on playoffs, int'l games, etc). And the Raiders have a secured fanbase in both Northern and Southern California willing to make a trip for a Sunday game as opposed to the Athletics, who will lose their Northern California fans if they move. It's a much easier commitment for an LA or Oakland fan to follow the Raiders.
The other sports teams in Las Vegas (Golden Knights, NHL; Aces, WNBA; Lights, USL; etc) have local fanbases willing to support those teams, and because Las Vegas is a relatively small market (2.26m people), there's a concern regarding if this market can support all Four Major Pro Sports leagues in addition to other leagues. And adding an owner like John Fisher, who is not committed to supporting a successful team on the field, probably spells disaster (look at how he's handled his other sports team, MLS's San Jose Earthquakes).
Moneyball as a strategy can work over the course of a season, but it fails in the playoffs, as you do need clutch players. Bill James always stated there was no such thing as a clutch player, but if doesn't take a genius to know that there most certainly are high end multi-tooled players that we sometimes call clutch due to their post season heroics. You need those high end guys in October. Because the plumbers that are playing the odds with success from April to September can play above their weight as a collective, come crunch time you need players with more balance and a higher ceiling to taste the champagne.
Beautiful movie
Have they ever done anything post season ?
Yeah. Including 2000, they have made the post season 11 times, losing in the first round 9 times, winning one wild card game and losing in the division series 1 time, and winning a division series but getting swept in the league championship series 1 time. Moneyball is a good marketing term for the owners. It simply doesn't work but allows them to be cheap.
I don’t get y if they already have a temporary arrangement in Sacramento they don’t just do major renovations or build over the original stadium, surely that saves money compared to a new stadium and doesn’t relocate the fan base and team??
They are moving to Sacramento because if they leave Northern California they lose about 60-70 million dollars with their regional broadcast company. They also lose fund sharing from MLB. They want the City of Oakland to pay for them to stay. Even though Fisher owns 50% of the coliseum site. Sacramento gave them a great deal I think only have to pay a million bucks a year for rent.
The A’s have lost a great deal of fans when they put the tarps up on the third deck in 2006. Then the Giants won the World Series in 2010,2012, and, 2014. Many local kids saw how cheap the A’s were and decided to root for the Giants. But we told him to go for the A’s. We didn’t know they would leave. It doesn’t matter now he is a gamer and doesn’t watch sports at all.
They didn’t get on base
Let's be real. At least the film of money ball sort of mocked classic scouting... And the reason why the a's were ever competitive was because of their scouts drafting... Like how when the A's were good.They just happened to have the best ERA in the league. The whole concept of buying runs is a lot easier when you're Ace.Pitching staff doesn't give much up. The reason you hated playing the aids was because of the three headed dragon they had of Cy young caliber starters
How are you going to get fans to go to 81 home games in Las Vegas during summer when its stinking hot? NFL I can understand since you only get 8 or 9 home games in the regular season during autumn/winter. With NHL you're in an arena and theres "only" 41 home games (same with NBA if a team goes to Las Vegas) and its not summer.
But 81 games in a stadium ... Who is going to go when if the A's are having a bad season?
The A's weren't getting fans at the stadium in Oakland to go in good weather. The money is made from TV and merchandise sales and the brand was dead in Oakland.
Mad to me that in American sport it is normal to move a team. All those fans from decades can no longer see their team
The As and the Raiders both moving to Las Vegas? Sucks to be a sports fan in Oakland.
Don't forget that the fans from Oakland will still go to Vegas, not to go to games, but to gamble, so the fans will really lose everything they had in Oakland.
As much as I love the movie, it’s incredibly inaccurate about how that season actually went for Oakland. Being an A’s fan is truely tough. We have amazing history as a franchise im pretty sure we have the second most World Series behind the yankees. Some of baseballs best players were A’s, Ricky Henderson, Mark Maguire, Reggie Jackson and Jose canseco also if Aaron judge didn’t go to college he was drafted first by the A’s 😂😂😂
Moneyball is a horror movie for any true Oakland fan. It starts with them losing in the playoffs, shows the team getting gutted, ends with them losing in the playoffs, and is based on the greed of the owner who has been trying to tank the team for 20 years so he can profit.
Wrong movie. I think you're thinking of Cleveland and the movie Major League. lol.
That sounds like success for the owner as his franchise which is worth 1.2 billion will triple in value in a decade or so, and they also showed the success of another owner in that movie in the end who dodged a bullet when Billy turned down his offer, and then his team not only kept gaining in value, but it has also won the most championships since the book came out.
Funny enough? The Oakland Raiders were well known for winning with a bunch of misfits.
It goes way before John Fisher.
The Oakland Athletics ownership, the city of Oakland, and Alameda County governments should've had a baseball-only facility plan that is ready to go once Al Davis said that he is moving the Raiders back to Oakland from L.A. in 1995.
Bingo! The A's were doomed the moment Mount Davis was built.
don't forget, for all the "success" moneyball had, they NEVER made it to the World Series. The moneyball A's era is a legacy of failure, plain and simple.
What kind of garbage is this. Thank you for rightfully shitting on Fisher but are you gonna ignore the decade of success we had in the Coliseum. Playoffs in 12,13,14,18,19, and 20.
🤢🤢🤮 Imagine moving Man United club to Saudi Arabian city because the money 🤢🤢🤮
Or the Saudis can just buy Man City and spend a fortune on players because there is no real salary cap and then dominate Man Utd for years.
What you mean every team can do exactly the same thing and be rich as well
This was almost predictable- but also a real shame . Team Sports are often now more and more being played on an uneven playing field - that said I do think the best competitive league in the world comes from American football .
Moving a team to another city is disgusting behaviour.
How? Oakland is a terrible city in every way imaginable. While I don’t think public funding should be allowed for stadiums the fact that Oakland has done so little to actually support the A’s shows they don’t deserve a team. No one cared about that team until the Raiders left and they realized the we’re going to be left by the A’s as well. Blame poor ownership all you want but the fact remains some cities have very much deserved their team leaving and Oakland is one of them. Cities don’t own teams and have no rights to dictate where they play, they gain the privilege of the team being here through support.
@@darthbauer5153 Plenty of cities in the US worse than Oakland. Anything in Florida for example.
So they've become the Borussia Dortmund of baseball?
Mulder, Zito, etc...nothing to do with .230 hitters who vould catch the Ball.
Yep. Moneyball is a scam. Pitching kept that low paid group of misfits in games, and with good pitching you could be in position to win many games during the season because in close games even the good teams make mistakes to give a win away. Pitching rules in baseball.
John Fisher happened
Kinda happened to the cowboys too
Rip Oakland A’s
their strategy has been outdated for like twenty years lol, baseball analytics have moved way beyond OBP and undervaluing guys from arm slots. Just saying Fisher isn't why they've been bad the last few years. Don't get me wrong, he sucks, but they've been valuing the wrong archetypes of players for a little while now.
OBP was just used as a stat in the movie to give an idea of the analytics the A's used since a lot of people understand it and its not the traditional avg, hr and rbi. Not everyone is a baseball fan and understands more complex statistics.
The friend I saw it with knew what OBP was but wouldnt know something as common as OPS.
Obviously Beane would have used much more complex analytics in reality.
Endless retelling of the same stories...
And yet here we all are asking them to tell us the same bedtime stories. The internet is awesome and it works in mysterious ways.
People like Fisher have no business being around the greatest sport ever. He needs to go back to pushing paperwork in the corporate office. He is a joke.
Summary: it got priced in
The Oakland Coliseum is broken, ugly, and run down but never bland.
I understand nothing about Baseball but this Sounds horrible.
And is it normal in America that a Sportsteam doesnt Play in their Home City, even if they have it their Name?
Good example would be the San Francisco 49ers as their home stadium, Levi stadium, is about 50 miles south in Santa Clara.
the New York Giants and Jets play in New Jersey
Oakland doesn’t pay for stadiums the raiders
There will never be commitment from communities and public funds where you can move the team anywhere. Unlike in US, soccer teams in Europe are a neighbourhood/city passion, it's part of the identity and that is above the $. Things end up being profitable but most important passionate. That is why United is struggling, thr owners do not understand that
The A's are just the California Expos
It honestly wouldn’t surprise me if the A’s cease to exist as a team in the MLB in a couple years at this rate
If they took 4 to 8 teams with them, the game would be super exciting once again.
He is a billionär... he does not need public funding....
Michael Lewis was wring all along
According to the Brits in the comments, the best solution here would be relegation. Yeah that makes sense, take the team that’s already strapped for cash and make them even less marketable😂
Europeans with their obsession with promotion and relegation and no salary caps and having the same 2 teams win ever single year is bizarre and quite stupid. Though credit to them that the way they organise their sport is stupid and corrupt rather than their politics. In the US its the other way round with sports being cleaner than the massively corrupt political system.
The As are going to go bankrupt. The LA stadium will never be built.
*LV
Phase 1 is complete. The Tropicana was blown to bits. In a shocking coincidence, Hurricane Milton ripped the other money ball loser the Ray's roof of their stadium (Tropicana Field) to shreds. The baseball gods know what they are doing.
🤢🤢🤮🤮
everything wrong with american sports
1) move a team away from its long time fans in its original city
2) billionaire owner using taxpayer money to fund a new stadium, instead of their own
MLB’s version of AFC Wimbledon
Cheap s---- billionaires are what happened, to the A's and Raiders.
Where can I sign up to be a cheap s--- billionaire? Wait. Forget that. Where can I sign up to just be a cheap s---millionaire? I want to stay under the internet radar.
Sell the team
They lost
WHERE IS JOE
*FJF*
Billy Beane is a villain
Does "first" still man anything???
Second means something 😂😂😂
Well played. 😂
Never did.
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