Rejoice young man, your favorite FGO podcast is back~ We are doing these for another year so if you've been missing these, do make sure to SMASH that like button so we will have more motivation to do these next year too. Also do let me know how you feel about the three-way commentary this time around 🙏
I think you should plan to have longer pauses between each podcast since the discussions become longer, making it more tiring, and also would be good if you can include new servants from this year in your future tier lists aswell.
Loved the three-way commentary! It allows for even more great insights and perspectives, the back-and-forth was awesome, and you three had good chemistry. Otto was a great addition.
Honestly I love there being a third person here for this. The tier list itself is fun, but there being multiple different perspectives on Servants and their strengths/weaknesses is making for some pretty interesting conversations about servants and their use cases.
Firstly I want to say ty myst, plushie, and otto for spending 7 hours making this tier list, very much appreciated. I do have one complaint/critique though, during the end where you make the final adjustments I would like to see more of not just you 3 guys' thoughts on who to shift and where, but also of you guys responding to some of the chatters thoughts for possible character placement shifts. Aside from that, banger vid + am looking forward to the next one + glad I watched the whole thing
Love the tier list. I think a new guest helps prevent the conversation from feeling repetitive when talking about older servants. I think it would be cool if you let Plushie and Otto, before stream, pick 1 servant each that they can do the stats/skill run down on. It allows them to show bias/appreciation for one servant without it feeling like you guys are stepping on each others toes. Keep up the great work!
okay Im gonna watch more of this but I just wanted to say that you look better and better every year and I noticed that whenever I come back to watch these lists
Thanks for all the hard work Myst, Plushie Otto. Love the tier list as usual, although I have to admit the S tier shuffle at the end threw me off quite a bit as things moved around a lot and some without much explanation. But just a small thing on what’s another amazing piece of work!
Setanta has basically everything Iori does, plus 10% more crit damage, debuff clear, ignore defense, the wild beast power mod, and does 1.5 times iori's damage with supports. and buster vs Quick doesn't even matter. Even for longer fights you are likely just bringing Castoria with both for defense. and for low rarities Boudica or Mata Hari provide more damage than a dedicated buster support anyway. I mean for super farming brainrot Iori probably is better at multicore. But for overall kit I would take Setanta 10/10 times.
@@adrastos8401Iori is also way better when he is the only Farmer, the extra base dmg + 50% buster from oberon boosts him a lot. Setanta is worse than a lot of the previous ST Saber Welfares. Since both are enough for CQ/Bosses so obviously the only criteria for the comparison that matters should be farming even if you exclude that it is 99% of their use.
@@adrastos8401 Are you trolling? Iori has all 3 type buffs(which results in better crits) and a fat 30% battery over him. If we are assuming Castoria support Setanta's damage is going down to shitter. Iori will have better crits with 30% np over him
@@muratticugaratti1571 Setanta has all 3 buff types too and in better numbers than Iori (especially if you include supports, but it's only 10% more crit buffs otherwise) Iori's damage plummets just as hard with Castoria because he can't double up buffs. and even harder with Merlin even if you don't see it on a spreadsheet due to lack of battery and np gain. Setanta has 10% refund quick NP and a 20% battery. That is the same as Iori short term and more long term. Plus way better face cards. Sure in farming the instant 30% is better, but when rating as a DPS, I would take Setanta's any day.
@@adrastos8401 Setanta doesnt have all 3 buffs nor a battery. Iori also has better facecards because he has both rainbow buffs and a Charisma while Setanta only has a Quick up and a Charisma. Dont get me wrong Setanta usually will do more damage but Iori just has way better utility and crits to back himself up.
Just finished watching the entire video and I enjoyed every single second of it. I really loved the banter between the 3 of you and the extra perspectives. Also you can clearly observe compared to past tier lists that Myst has a bit of an easier time talking thanks to Otto and Plushie chiming in and saving his voice.
Fun stream. I can't believe I stayed up till 5am to watch this. Glad the A++/S tier got added after all the debating near the end. Here's to 8 weeks of all nighters on Sunday.
Man I really messed up not getting Iori haha. Haven't been playing a lot of FGO recently, but still watched the whole tierlist, although in 2x. I think this is the third year I'm watching your tierlists, really fun, specially now with otto and plushie in the middle. Hopefully this pushes me to start playing more again, but I recently got a pc so I'm enjoying many games I couldn't before, so it's really hard to have time for everything. Thanks for making the tierlist, those were some really fun 3 and a half hours lol.
I thought yall did my beloved fran dirty at first but once i heard the whole list is based on np1 i understood (battery append was a godsend for her and quick scaling is nuts as always) but i would defend at np2+ she’s at minimum b tier
i am sooo happy you are doing this again, this content makes me remember my best fgo times and i think your discussions are fantastic. since i always drive multiple hours home from uni i listened to last years lists multiple time. thank you for this
I hard disagree with Ottobean when it comes to Artoria's face carding. She has a massive advantage since she basically has buster on demand, and if you just borrow a Koyanskaya or Merlin she doesn't even need the actual damage of the skill as much as the "Red, now!" part of it to avoid getting those depressing quick/arts hands during crucial damage turns. Artoria is still the most reliable beatstick in FGO because she'll _always_ have damage, NP or not.
Agreed. Also think Ibuki's 3 hit attack effect was severely overvalued or at least not discussed enough. Her NP damage is already less powerful than Artoria, Mordred and some others and if face carding is included into the equation her NP will start hitting pretty low by 3rd turn if she needed to face card on T1 or T2 with the attack buff active. And while it is true she deals out more impressive carding values, 3 hit buster deck is still far less consistent than 5 hit buster deck.
I think if they want to make taunt units better, they should offer some team wide buff to compensate. Like charging the party’s NP gauge by %10 or something every time they get hit (during a 1-turn taunt for example)
Loved the tierlist, the people and the new placements as well! Especially proud of Mo-san finally overcoming her dad! One minor gripe I would like to voice for the next tier lists is that you guys talked over each other a lot, which often caused interruptions and incomprehensibility. It would be nice if you decided on a turn order to speak, for example, so that everyone gets to voice their opinion and no one has to compete by talking over others.
Unfortunately I couldn't watch it all live but it will be an amazing podcast to listen to in the background! On one of my favourite servants,that is getting a bit worse year after year I basically copy my thoughts on him that I wrote on Plushie's Iori hot take. A thing that kinda saddens me is that Rama now is getting overpowered not only by his gacha competitors (Tsuna,that in part share the same niche as him but have a much better kit, and Roland) but now even from welfares like Iori,that is basically a SSR,but also Saber Liz since she have more Np damage than him. While he can have a big crit turn,the others can compensate with multiple turns of crits,better survival ability and overall a better kit. I truly hope he gets a new rank up or at least have Sita in the game....
This may sounds stupid but i tested my Charlie on last anni damage test and tried to push his brave king trait to the max with Odysseus taunt on him, and Waver+Reines as his support. Both def were up to protect him on the first 3T, turn 4 i got lucky the enemies kept targeting him so i had full count trait on Charlie, and oh boi the damage he did just from his trait multiplier alone on the next turn were insane!The enemies he faced that time are all 3 knight class servants (i forgot the HP number but i think it was the same as lv.90 or 90+ node?) but he completely obliterated them despite the class disadvantage. I didn't have any meta support at that time, so i was so surprised the dmg he could deal only with Reines and Waver (forgot the exact number but it was above 1.3 million). I know it's not min turn and he has to wait until his trait stacked up, and it's not consistent and a bit too tricky to use, but i just wanna tell the potential he has outside farming. For farming, before i got S.Skadi, i liked to pair him with Komahime and throw his invul on her. His and Koma's Np gain buff is enough to BG farm with support Skadi and my own Waver. Too bad he's already bond 15 and has to retire early :( Edit : found my dmg test record, his final dmg was actually above 1.8 million....
Hell yeah! Honestly the more people in these the better. I watch a lot of people's tier lists, and inevitably you hit a string of servants who the guy doesn't have on any account and has never played, and they always try to do some hot takes on these characters they have no experience with and it sucks. Having more players makes it more likely that at least *SOMEONE* has used every character.
Thanks for doing it again this year Myst! I always ended up going back to these types of videos to check some specific information. That being said, it would be cool if you made some more eye-catching thumbnails this year too, it would helps to differentiate it from other videos in the feed.
I actually really like the idea of the trio taking turns reading the servant pages, I feel it adds different perspective and let's Myst take a breather every now and then I hope we can see more of that in the next tier lists
I've been using Muramasa nonstop since he got released on NA and I agree with plushie and Ottobean He just doesn't belong in the Arts meta considering how Castoria can neither give him consisten stars regen/bombs, star absorption, critic potential or cooldown reduction to use his 1 turn abilities more often. The only thing she can do is enable him to loop, which is only 1 of the 2 things he can do and xNaya's buster Muramasa meme video showcased that perfectly.
Out of curiosity would Waver+Castoria be a decent comp for Muramasa? Im assuming Waver fills the crit support role and you still get arts support with castoria
@@Arti_The_Great It is actually thats is my combo. I barely use 2 castorias with muramasa mainly because i dont have a castoria of my own but also because Castoria skills are not that effective in Muramasa.
Myst x smobcast is the best Collab in fgo. I legit think that this one of few tier list with watching, due to the back and forth discussions. You may not agree with the placements, but at least you know why they are there.
Thanks for bringing these back for us on 2024! Great job with the tier list, as usual, especially with some newcomers in the past year on JP like Saber Medusa and how she fairs as a ST saber in quite a loaded bunch. I want to add though, that personally the three-way discussion for tier list dynamic felt over-saturated and moved it around a bit too much for my taste as a listener. I think the dynamic between Myst leading the discussion and quality input from a single additional source, the Plushie Mistress, felt much more fluid the past year(s) and focused. I think it's neat to have a guest for an introduction/kickoff tier list for the Sabers but moving forward if it could just be a 2-person discussion and breakdown, that'd be a better listening experience in my opinion. Just feels less biased and less shifty. Cheers and looking forward to the others every week!
Would you be willing to add a couple more lists this year? Above all I'd LOVE a Mystic Code resource because no one talks abt the value of ones outside of literally just Plug and sometimes 2004. Would also love a Command Codes tier list for similar reasons but I'm aware CEs are prolly far more practical. We're getting to the point where your yearly tier lists are some of the only meta discussion content left for the game. We got plenty of people talking abt the strength of units but if I roll Bazett and wanna know what CCs to put on her cards I've got very few options for help, with some just being flat out wrong. If I MLB a gacha CE while rolling for a servant while 90% of the time most CEs aren't worth leveling it's still nice to see how strong it is compared to the field in case I do want to use something not named Black Grail and I still reference your last CE video for that.
This effort was amazing and you guys got me so excited for a lot of the servants coming this year and next. Especially Charlie, Trung Sisters And Saber Medusa! I'll be watching the rest and please keep up the wonderful work!
4:34:15 " it is rumoured that Okita feared his swordskill" (Reference: 3_cutting_edge_Nov13_shinsengumi) Saito Hajime: A+ Tier Rank Okita Souji: A Tier Rank Somehow this is lore accurate lmao
Sad truth about muramasa is that his crit is not very reliable if you don’t have other people help bring stars in. I can’t count how many times I count on my muramasa to crit with his 15 starts then he misses because of the wierd stars distribution. It’s also just like plushie said, the typical art supports you want to use with him (on NA) like castoria can’t help very much with stars. I can’t wait for either pope johanna or lady avalon to join na so i can use my grailed np5 muramasa more.
@@saeber6630 yeah but some time i just don’t wanna min turn. I just wanna do a normal run😅. And, if you are using star bombs, you kind have to pray that the rng god sides with you and kill the previous support so that the new one with the bomb can come in and they pray that you have the right hand (assuming that you already use plug). It’s just a little bit annoying to do for me. But yeah if we are willing to repeat until we are blessed by that then it’s not a problem.
@@lookingforlove839 100% stars gen is only 9 stars from his np on 3 targets tho, so you still have to pray for the brave chain to get more. The problem is if you have brave chain this turn you will likely not have it next turn unless it’s the reset turn.
Hans is good tho: easy to die lots of stars per turn but i think he give a bit too little damage boost (not counting the rng np). And, we kinda need hans on the field for us to have that stars per turn for a second time which is a lot of buff lost consider that could be another support with more umph like lady avalon or sth. So, i still prefer lady avalon or the pope which is totally understandable considering they are 5 stars and hans is only 2. If i prefer hans over any ssr support that would most likely mean that they are a bad ssr.
My thoughts on the tier list. You aren’t reading the crit sheet right. You focus on the BBB damage. But quick/arts servants have quick/arts up not buster up. Jason should be B or even B+. Yes Artoria exists, but she needs Kscope to no-plug loop, so even with just the free options he can be really nice for looping if you don’t already need plug for damage. Plus 1 star cost lets you be more flexible for bond gain. Suzuka’s star gen is 3 turns unlike what plushie thought (though I agree with placement anyway) Diarmuid is basically just worse in every way than Fran. No idea why he is rated so much higher. At NP1 because of the skill 1 demerit for Fran I can see them being the same tier, or if Diarmuid has a notably higher NP level (like NP5 Diarmuid to NP2 Fran) but otherwise I would always pick Fran over Diarmuid. I use Lan ling way more than Lakshimi bai. Sure the targeted defense is nice, the buff success being party wide is nice. But Lakshimi has 50% less damage buffs (when counting Lanling’s NP) and no battery at all. No idea why people hype Iori so much more than Setanta (ok that’s a bit of a lie, I know why, Setanta is quick and people only care about farming). But Setanta is literally just better in every way as a DPS. Setanta has better star generation, even when considering stars per turn, way better np damage, ignore defense, and debuff clear. His deck is worse for critting, but he has way better np gain, and more crit damage buffs to make up for it. One more buster card isn’t going to overcome the difference in damage between the NPs, let alone between the NPs damage, spammability, and then also another non-buster crit. The 30% np charge does matter a lot in farming, but outside of that, Setanta gets 10% back every NP with support, that is 30% in the timeframe of buffs, not even counting that Setanta has more np gain on facecards. Even on defense, Buster isn’t any better than quick is. Merlin’s lower charge amount really hurts damage in practice, so you can just run Setanta with Castoria to be comparable there. And for low rarities, 50% buster for 1 turn isn’t much. Boudica with CC or Mata Hari are far better as general supports anyway for both buster and quick. That Setanta is two ranks below Iori (and a rank below Santa Karna) is ridiculous. Setanta does significantly more damage on NPQQ with double Caster Skadi than Iori with double Koyan on NPBB (800k NP +530k crits vs 500k NP and 450k crits) or Santa Karna with NPQQ double Caster Skadi (644k NP 550k crits) or NPBB, with one caster skadi one ruler skadi for the most damage (644k NP and 276k on crits) Damage isn’t everything. But Setanta also has the best np gain, best utility, and they all have the same defense. Even Theseus with his 3 star stats and arts focus meaning one of his supports crit focused (ie running Castoria+Lady Avalon) does only 120k damage less on an NPAA chain than Iori on NPBB. And that is someone you said was severely hampered by his stats. Shiki farms better than you give credit for, she can easily Black Grail 3/3/X with plug, and handles even 1/1/ berserkers with 50% start charge and Oberon, making her better than any buster servant in pure looping and when running a 50% CE (ie Ocean Flier vs Cranking) better wave 1 damage than any buster saber, better wave 2 damage than any buster saber but Artoria. Her wave 3 damage is lower because of Oberon’s buster up, but who cares if you do 200k or 250k when the enemy has 180k hp. (Plus arts can use a Castoria NP in farming to further help things) I would rate her over Artoria for sure. For the Musashi discussion. The sheet is very misleading on buster servants that both don’t have attack up and can’t double stack skill buffs (which aren’t that many, but Musashi is one of them), even just Reines+Koyanskaya lets her do much higher NP damage (though still less than the quick SSR servants in raw damage) Triverr saying she is mid is true, in a double Koyan team. But for CQs you don’t run this comp much anyway. This is generally fine as stacking the skills makes up for (or surpasses) the other options in damage usually. But not for Musashi. That said, she is still below the quick servants in damage overall. I am a huge Sigurd fan and have him at NP5 level 110, so maybe this is me seeing too much into his flaws when I have a very strong copy, but I think he is the worst SSR (or at least worst ST SSR, comparing AoE and ST can be hard sometimes) in the entire game, I think he is worse than Rama even with the SSR stats and should probably be D+. Even against lancer Dragons he is only like the 9th highest damaging NP in the game overall. He needs to be up against a lancer dragon with no break bars or other traits to even be remotely usable. He barely hangs in there damage wise on the spreadsheets, and that ignores that his 3 time buster buffs can’t be used on crits if he wants to get that NP damage and vice versa. When you consider that, he has the second lowest NP damage of any SSR, and nowhere close to the utility or niches to make up for it. Sidenote: Georgios thing isn’t a meme for minturns. He boosts damage quite high for Kriemhild/Sigurd let alone Siegfried (I think the highest of all servants in terms of 3 turn buffs) and then taunts himself off the field. He just can’t repeatedly give damage buffs, and his taunt means he wants to die, so his ability to give repeatable damage is low. Kriemhild especially (because everyone else is either AoE, doesn’t get much damage out of it, or is named Sigurd) sees Georgios with Kscope as a staple in min turn comps, such has her min turn of the Morgan super recollection quest. Not sure I agree with Ibuki being better than Mordred or Altera. Definitely worse farming (I would say than either, despite Altera’s lower battery) and not really that much better as a DPS (Especially when considering that Altera who has the lowest crit damage of the 3, also doesn’t have hit based buffs so his more consistent) Sure you can run Summer Wu for damage, but that loses out on NP spam. Especially with both being NP1 where the NP upgrade matters. I do agree she is better than Muramasa. But I think the others are as well. Probably would move both of them down a tier and Altera up one. (though birthday is birthday so...) Medusa saber not being EX tier is a tragedy. She is basically the best ST saber by nearly every metric you could have (even damage which is plushie's main complaint she is the highest over multiple turns with supports when considering crits and NP). Whether it’s damage in a team or ability to solo. Even for looping, she brings as much battery+refund as Trung sisters if you give them the same support (though Castoria means Trung sisters do still loop easier without face cards)
Ya I agree with you but 1 thing I will say about Ibuki is that ignore def/inul is really powerful in CQ. I mean we just had Tesla fest and she shines better than Artoria and Mordred there. And that is why she didn't get that on her Zerk NP. Another thing is the Trung sisters and Disco Twins should be swapped.
Love the video, but I have one request: Please say more things out loud! I listen to this video like a podcast on my daily commute and it gets frustrating when things like the final servant rating is left unsaid. I understand that it's on the screen, but for those of us who only listen like a podcast, it gets kind of frustrating. Other than that, I love having Otto on. My playstyle is definitely closest to Plushie so having someone on the other side of the spectrum is refreshing.
The Mordred placement puzzles me a bit. Why are there two SSR farmers above her that do worse damage (aside from Okita turn 1) and also require refund? If the reason is that she can't also function as a boss killer, that seems iffy. I think her crit playstyle is being undermined. Even then, you should mostly consider the primary role. If you want to argue that Ibuki is a better crit dps boss killer, sure, but it's not like Mordred can't also excel in that playstyle while shitting on her farming numbers. Idk
I think it’s just because mordred still need starting charge while those above her do not, except ibuki. But, ibuki have better cq potential due to pierce invul and ignore def.
The Mordred and Altera placements make no sense at all as they are around the same level as Ibuki Douji, but to see a 2 and 3 rank gap is pretty hilarious, not going to lie. How is Altera who clears Ibuki Douji in farming by 12k/17k/58k 3 levels below her? Because of CQ? How is Altera bad at CQ? That's all she had before she got her charge buff. Altera has 20% np dmg, removes defensive buffs, 30% np charge, 30% crit dmg, 120% debuff resistance, 3k heal, star absorb, 30% attack, 15 star bomb and an upgraded NP that lowers defense. The main thing she lacks compared to Ibuki Douji is np seal, buster up, def up and undead trait. Buster up doesn't matter due to supports (Vitch Light and Dark, Oberon, Merlin, Shake etc). I'll ignore the defense up because Altera can heal..... So now you have NP seal and Undead trait damage... that's worth going from A rank up to EX? C'mon now that's cap. I would put all 3 of them in S tier as they're clearly a step above Artoria right now, Ibuki is EX if she gets an NP buff. And this is assuming you even put much capital on CQ because Salter is trash at that compared to these 3. Salter is also dependent on having Black Grail while Altera/Mordred/Ibuki can use any 50% CE and Mordred has overcharge CEs as well.
It might be a bit misleading but Altera/Artoria are only 1 tier below Ibuki in the final placements. A+ is half of a tier and S is like a quarter between A+ and EX. I know it's a bit silly but it's fun to be more precise.
@@MystFGO Not to be that guy about this, but Mordred is SIGNIFICANTLY better than Ibuki in basically every catagory. Ibuki being in EX and Mordred being stuck in A+ with a bonus tier between them is really freaking dumb.
@@rancorrage5646Imo I don’t think that Mordred is better than Ibuki in *every category* I favour Ibuki way more for CQ potential more than Mordred tbh thx to her Ignore Invul and Ignore Def plus extra utility in the form of an np seal. Before people make an argument that “oh you can just a slap a CE or support that gives this X servant the advantage”, so can Ibuki. Both can act as strong Crit DPS whenever u want them to. Both can farm, while Mordred does it a little better thanks to an upgraded Np. Plushie also makes a good point about having a triple buster deck for consistency. That CQ potential for Ibuki is what really sells her, while also having great numbers as a DPS. Farming isn’t her strongest suit in comparison but at least she can do it. The numbers ain’t even that half bad. Just not that bright in comparison to her competition (Artoria, Mordred, Salter, Altera etc.) My only gripe is that if Ibuki Is EX tier (which I’m absolutely fine with), Mordred should be at least S and Artoria at A+ for her Np dmg at least. Yes she’s basic but she still hits rly hard.
One very underrated thing about Bedivere is that his 30% battery is flat, meaning you don't have to level it to be able to use him in stuff like farming runs, which is really nice. You basically only ever need to level his first skill, unless you want the lower CDs for longer fights where he's the main DPS.
Hopefully your synergy will be better as you do the tierlist together, there was a lot of talking over each other and awkward moments at times. Edit: Also I think grading gold units at NP1 is a bit outdated, at least for 4* servants, this late into the game.
At least in terms of FGO, Salter always has been better than Saber. Idk why but they just don't want to do any story stuff with saber while Salter gets so much love. I won't complain though.
She'll still be a worse Salter if she gets a bit more damage on charisma @@PauloCaparas-j9j She needs something else to be on the level of Mordred, Altera and Ibuki Douji than just damage, Mordred has defense and debuff clear as well as way better crits, Altera is a CQ powerhouse, Ibuki is in between those two.
The Muramasa slander is crazy, tho I would agree he aged. One thing I would point is he doesn't suck at generating stars, he has 100% star gen and can drop instant stars. Not to mention the presence of Lady Avalon and Popess has shown that Arts Crits is a legit style and can work as a plug suit/secondary support.
Great video. I like the 3 man convo, makes it a kinda semi-podcast If you like the 6-7+ hours keep doing your thing but if you want to shave some time off you may want to look at only talking about new units, units that changed because the meta changed (like a new meta support got added to the game) and units that got buffs since the last tier list. People who want to know why an older, unchanged character is placed the way it is can quickly look up the relevant part of last year's video, GOD BLESS YOU FOR THE TIME STAMPS.
Pretty thorough tier list done live, with a large cast of servants, i feel like im asking the impossible here but i feel there should be three kinds of tier list when it comes to servants. The 1st how good they farm, just clearning the average wave, 2nd challenge quest ability, and 3rd utility how good they help synergies with the team and patch holes. I feel like that would help new and mid game players get an idea what they should invest in
Thank you for yet another awesome tier list video! I watch them often to get opinions on upcoming servants and who I should roll for xP Amazing discussions, solid rundowns, really enjoyed watching the whole thing If the tier lists will have more people from now, I think divying up the tier list equally between everyone would make things smoother with less people talking over each other. And saving the discussion for AFTER the skill rundown could help too
While most of the List seems good, I hard disagree with the creation of the "S-Tier". Just because bias didnt want you admit that Medusa Saber is better than Okita, and this notion that Okita is still somehow the pinnacle of single target simply because her cards her strong, when that doesnt and shouldnt allow her to make up for her lack of skill up time and virtually no flexibility or useful skills in challenges as she cannot punch through Dodge/Invin and ignore defense is suspect more and more too as many bosses now get damage resistence which isnt defense up.
The sad truth is the 1 turn skills on Muramasa hurts, only Khad is supportive of Muramasa. Those skills need a touch up like Plushie said. Like Durga. 3 turns for the skills would help a great deal.
Thanks for the tier lists! Just realized they're dropping and gonna start binging them. The only thing I personally kinda disagree with by the end is Gawain being in B+ instead of B since his Sunlight Battlefield buff only lasts for 1 turn so a lot of his kit is limited to that 1 turn burst while pretty much everyone else in the same tier has similar performance but for longer turn counts. But yeah, thanks again for your time and, to everyone, good luck with your pulls for whomever you're going for in the future!
I think an interesting follow up to these tier list videos would be theorizing about buffs that could push the B tier and below servants up to A and above. For example I’m a big fan of Lakshmibai, and an np buff for damage and doubling down on her support potential would easily put her into the top echelons of 4 star sabers, and I’d be interested in seeing that applied to the rest of the cast.
I know no-one will see this, but I'd like to offer an unpopular opinion. I really like this format, I'm watching it for the third year in a row, but this year you're too... tough? Maybe it's just me, but compared to previous years, there's a sense of unwarranted aggression towards some of the characters. I really like Plushie and Otto, but they make the atmosphere of the tier lists get lost. It feels like I'm watching their podcast instead Anyway thanks for the video and the stream
We are trying to be a more tough this year because realistically a lot of the Servants just won't see much use besides from people who simp them sadly so I feel like that being realistic while tough, is good.
@@MystFGO Thank you for reply, I’m kinda surprised I get it, it’s good that you are more objective this year, but you are overdoing it and it feels like you are criticizing for the sake of criticism and hot takes, and not a real assessment of the characters
Otto have some interesting view and opinion, these 3 have made the tier list more fun and fair than the 2023 tier list for sure. I hope that other tier lists this year could run like this
Void in A was all I wanted to see. She’s improved a lot with all of her buffs. Not perfect, but very serviceable with nice utility. Appreciate you guys so much for the content.
I love that they made Iori a good servant first and THEN a welfare. Welfare kits tend to be tightly balanced around their Np5 status. Not this guy though
I wonder if more ppl takes double oberon in consideration for farming with single core parties, since he allows anything with 10% np refound/battery in the second wave (100% in the first + second 50% np charger) to loop. Buster beeing the desired color to use this system.
Will you also be doing CE tier lists after all the classes this year again? Those are super useful since its hard to keep up with all the new CE's effects
Listened to this video on the background while working today. It's nice to see these come back again this year. A bit weirded out by the strange placements of the low rarity servants (I get that the evocation system puts most of them lower in comparison to welfare SRs, but they still should be easily comparable with each other, while you seem to have evaluated them by how replace able they are by welfare SRs, so Fergus and NP1 Bedivere got propelled too high, while Caesar and Jason got dragged down, and I do not believe either of these were deserved), but half the fun of these videos is getting irrationally angry about opinions of other people, so on this front this video has delivered on its promise.
Tomoe summer actually does a pretty good amount of dmg to farm with her, you can actually take the mage mystic and x2 castoria with full append, ocean flyer and you can comfortably farm any type(minus archers). With plug you can actually farm everything. I've been using her since she was released for every different type of farm event and she hasn't dissapointed me once, just need a bit of an investment and that's it. Recommend to pull for her if you're a veteran player and ofc if you like her is a must pull.
Poor summer Gareth, she has no reason to be so undercooked especially when comparing her to even servants like Theseus... still gonna grail and np 5 her, love over power ❤❤❤
Something that I feel might get missed is that arts synergy servants really are a little more generically valuable simply for 'being arts'. You can throw together any arts team haphazardly, blind, into a lostbelt story or event story node, get surprised by a boss, and then often just beat it first try simply by virtue of the fact that your team is arts. It's ridiculous. As Castoria brings defensive power that Koyan and Skadi don't bring. I get the feeling that this is something that people try not to talk about out of a sense of fairness, but it's there. It is what it is. This makes me push Muramasa into the same tier as summer Okita Alter, for example. I ended up getting a NP3 okita from luck so tbh she's still gonna be much stronger for me, but if they were both NP3 I'd be using muramasa way more.
i still use jason to this day since he's the only saber i can loop with. well, i do have summer okitan but i don't have skadi. uh huh, i failed to get skadi trice in total. very cool
Dioscuri being so high is insane. They're bad. I mean I have them grailed to 100 and NP5, love them for sure, but they're bad. Their skills are actually just terrible. Skill 1 should have some kind of damage up, and skill 2 should be like 3 turns, or skill 3 should be more than just 20%. Plushie is right, they have no damage, and they scale badly in teams. They exist with a kit designed for before Castoria exists, where their quick and arts cards are interchangable, but since castoria came out their np gain is no longer special. But they just do no damage, every time I use them I'm amazed how little damage they do. They're B rank at best, probably C rank.
@@InvaderZim500 And? There are easy ways to get those. Their damage is still bad, and their skills are bad. I don't think people need to try and cope them into being good, its fine to like them, but they're just not good.
I think you could turn to make the reading of the servant overall kit, that way myst doesn’t die and the other participants feel more included than just making an opinion at the end where myst kinda try to put the servant in the postion he wants to, he did considerate the opinions a few times but maybe it should be more like “okay we agree on this position” even if the opinion of some of you is a bit different, but at the same time, i really enjoyed, this is the first time that i heard the whole thing, that is cool 🎉🎉
In Rama's defense, even tho its a np1 vs np 5 welfare comparison which doesn't do justice, Rama is a straight up 150% Anti demonic while for Tsuna, unless your hitting oni enemies he's only hitting 20% although he has better general skills and face cards. Rama was actually used in a certain ordeal call and Advanced quest I think? while it's actually more rare to see people using Tsuna as a main dps in anything difficult as Rama could face because let's be honest you don't go around looking for that 2~3 Berserker Oni boss fights in the entire game and go "this character is bat shit insane" Rama might just be like Siegfried where he does extremely well at one thing but is below average in general usage + In the comparison with Lan Ling Wang and Lakshimibai (as a support) Lan with his np can buff 1 Arts main dps with 50% atk and 20% arts up while Lak only has her 20% atk up I've used Lan in multiple story boss fights in some lostbelts and he is extremely useful as a budget plug suit supporter, and with his defensive capabilities, he goes along well with servants like Castoria or Waver, not necessarily becomes replaced by them especially if you don't need the crit buffs if the arts dps is a NP nuke based. That being said Lak does offer defensive with her second skill to a target ally and removes offensive buffs on her np yes, but I honestly believe Lan is lower only because he is in a sense replaceable, not because he's worse than Lak support wise. Lak feels more of a tactical support while Lan is a burst support who also can reduce enemy np by 1 and 'help' tank longer(?) while Lak can only protect 1 person 1 turn The funny thing with Lak is, even though she's technically more universal skill wise, she doesn't really synergize with other supports like Lan does, she feels more like a stand alone support who can also dps like Caesar but that's just my opinion. I personally don't agree that Lak is simply a better support than Lan just because Lan is usually used in art teams and is deemed less utility wise. plus as a support, his np is way more easier to spam.
I'm a bit surprised that this only lasted 6-7 hours. I lowkey expected this one to last 10 hours because I know that Plushie and Otto together got lost on a tangent pretty frequently (not that I mind lol). I would love for Plushie and Otto to join you again whenever possible. Both of them can offer different (but very related) perspectives on the game and the servants.
When the released Muramasa back in the day I thought he was about as complete as a servant could be, totally loaded with skills. It seemed like they would never even need to buff him, and now we have the guy two tiers down. I do think you're underestimating the value he brings, being good in every saber related content (farming, challenge, etc.), so I wouldn't put him any lower than top S. That said, he does have a few areas that could be buffed.
As a muramasa user i kinda have to agree with this. I mean as i said before i wont even try to summon for summer ibuki. Muramasa is by faaaaar better than most sabers in the A+ tier in term of burst damage so i usually use him as both a farmer and a boss killer. If he gets a buff on any of his skills he can jump from A to Ex in this tierlist in a snap. When he gets the cards right and he start refilling 50% gauge with literally just 1 card you understand how broken is Murama´s potential. Sadly they really do a "good work" keeping his skills in check.
Rejoice young man, your favorite FGO podcast is back~
We are doing these for another year so if you've been missing these, do make sure to SMASH that like button so we will have more motivation to do these next year too. Also do let me know how you feel about the three-way commentary this time around 🙏
Can you please invite an Altera fanboy next year so she can finally get a proper ranking?
Your tier lists really are my fave, Myst. Thanks sm!
@@ryanwest6035Altera being A is unfair?
I think you should plan to have longer pauses between each podcast since the discussions become longer, making it more tiring, and also would be good if you can include new servants from this year in your future tier lists aswell.
Loved the three-way commentary! It allows for even more great insights and perspectives, the back-and-forth was awesome, and you three had good chemistry. Otto was a great addition.
Feels like it was just yesterday when last year's lists were coming out, time passes so fast, but myst's dedication to this game doesn't fade.
My Turn to Stalk you
@@Celestiallight16 🤓☝️
Myst always cooks when it comes to FGO.
Wee-Woo Mofos.
Babe wake up Myst just dropped the new tier list
Honestly I love there being a third person here for this. The tier list itself is fun, but there being multiple different perspectives on Servants and their strengths/weaknesses is making for some pretty interesting conversations about servants and their use cases.
Firstly I want to say ty myst, plushie, and otto for spending 7 hours making this tier list, very much appreciated. I do have one complaint/critique though, during the end where you make the final adjustments I would like to see more of not just you 3 guys' thoughts on who to shift and where, but also of you guys responding to some of the chatters thoughts for possible character placement shifts. Aside from that, banger vid + am looking forward to the next one + glad I watched the whole thing
Love the tier list. I think a new guest helps prevent the conversation from feeling repetitive when talking about older servants. I think it would be cool if you let Plushie and Otto, before stream, pick 1 servant each that they can do the stats/skill run down on. It allows them to show bias/appreciation for one servant without it feeling like you guys are stepping on each others toes. Keep up the great work!
These tier lists help me find out more about characters i like in a quick way. Thanks Myst!
Same, I use these list whenever a banner comes up
I advise you to do testing , it is always better , those are just 1 man opinion or try to look at multiple tier list
okay Im gonna watch more of this but I just wanted to say that you look better and better every year and I noticed that whenever I come back to watch these lists
Thanks for all the hard work Myst, Plushie Otto. Love the tier list as usual, although I have to admit the S tier shuffle at the end threw me off quite a bit as things moved around a lot and some without much explanation. But just a small thing on what’s another amazing piece of work!
Can't wait for those to be like 10h long each in 5 years.
I just realized how many Gold Sabers there are. It's like they are the fanciest class or something 😂
its the best class according to the masters from the 4th & 5th holy grail war 😂
Reminder that FGO doesn't have bronze rarity saber for like......... 3-4 years or something. That class is indeed premium.
When I read Iori's kit I was honestly shocked they released both him and Setanta in the same year, the difference is ridiculous. Poor kid Cu.
Setanta has basically everything Iori does, plus 10% more crit damage, debuff clear, ignore defense, the wild beast power mod, and does 1.5 times iori's damage with supports.
and buster vs Quick doesn't even matter. Even for longer fights you are likely just bringing Castoria with both for defense. and for low rarities Boudica or Mata Hari provide more damage than a dedicated buster support anyway.
I mean for super farming brainrot Iori probably is better at multicore. But for overall kit I would take Setanta 10/10 times.
@@adrastos8401Iori is also way better when he is the only Farmer, the extra base dmg + 50% buster from oberon boosts him a lot.
Setanta is worse than a lot of the previous ST Saber Welfares.
Since both are enough for CQ/Bosses so obviously the only criteria for the comparison that matters should be farming even if you exclude that it is 99% of their use.
@@adrastos8401 Are you trolling? Iori has all 3 type buffs(which results in better crits) and a fat 30% battery over him.
If we are assuming Castoria support Setanta's damage is going down to shitter. Iori will have better crits with 30% np over him
@@muratticugaratti1571 Setanta has all 3 buff types too and in better numbers than Iori (especially if you include supports, but it's only 10% more crit buffs otherwise)
Iori's damage plummets just as hard with Castoria because he can't double up buffs.
and even harder with Merlin even if you don't see it on a spreadsheet due to lack of battery and np gain.
Setanta has 10% refund quick NP and a 20% battery. That is the same as Iori short term and more long term. Plus way better face cards. Sure in farming the instant 30% is better, but when rating as a DPS, I would take Setanta's any day.
@@adrastos8401 Setanta doesnt have all 3 buffs nor a battery. Iori also has better facecards because he has both rainbow buffs and a Charisma while Setanta only has a Quick up and a Charisma. Dont get me wrong Setanta usually will do more damage but Iori just has way better utility and crits to back himself up.
Babe, no time to sleep, FGO Tier List 2024 just arrived
fr tho, I'm glad you brought it back, BRAND NEW BACKGROUND NOISE LET'S GOOOO
Myst tier list 2022: my fav unit is A tier. Unacceptable.
Myst tier list 2024: yay! 🎉 my fav unit is C- tier. He/she is usable.
Just finished watching the entire video and I enjoyed every single second of it. I really loved the banter between the 3 of you and the extra perspectives. Also you can clearly observe compared to past tier lists that Myst has a bit of an easier time talking thanks to Otto and Plushie chiming in and saving his voice.
I'm a new player that has been going through your 2023 tier lists the last few days. What great timing ty for these they're so helpful!
Fun stream. I can't believe I stayed up till 5am to watch this.
Glad the A++/S tier got added after all the debating near the end.
Here's to 8 weeks of all nighters on Sunday.
Man I really messed up not getting Iori haha. Haven't been playing a lot of FGO recently, but still watched the whole tierlist, although in 2x. I think this is the third year I'm watching your tierlists, really fun, specially now with otto and plushie in the middle. Hopefully this pushes me to start playing more again, but I recently got a pc so I'm enjoying many games I couldn't before, so it's really hard to have time for everything.
Thanks for making the tierlist, those were some really fun 3 and a half hours lol.
I thought yall did my beloved fran dirty at first but once i heard the whole list is based on np1 i understood (battery append was a godsend for her and quick scaling is nuts as always) but i would defend at np2+ she’s at minimum b tier
i am sooo happy you are doing this again, this content makes me remember my best fgo times and i think your discussions are fantastic. since i always drive multiple hours home from uni i listened to last years lists multiple time. thank you for this
I hard disagree with Ottobean when it comes to Artoria's face carding. She has a massive advantage since she basically has buster on demand, and if you just borrow a Koyanskaya or Merlin she doesn't even need the actual damage of the skill as much as the "Red, now!" part of it to avoid getting those depressing quick/arts hands during crucial damage turns.
Artoria is still the most reliable beatstick in FGO because she'll _always_ have damage, NP or not.
Agreed. Also think Ibuki's 3 hit attack effect was severely overvalued or at least not discussed enough. Her NP damage is already less powerful than Artoria, Mordred and some others and if face carding is included into the equation her NP will start hitting pretty low by 3rd turn if she needed to face card on T1 or T2 with the attack buff active. And while it is true she deals out more impressive carding values, 3 hit buster deck is still far less consistent than 5 hit buster deck.
Glad to see Ottobean!
I think if they want to make taunt units better, they should offer some team wide buff to compensate. Like charging the party’s NP gauge by %10 or something every time they get hit (during a 1-turn taunt for example)
Loved the tierlist, the people and the new placements as well! Especially proud of Mo-san finally overcoming her dad! One minor gripe I would like to voice for the next tier lists is that you guys talked over each other a lot, which often caused interruptions and incomprehensibility. It would be nice if you decided on a turn order to speak, for example, so that everyone gets to voice their opinion and no one has to compete by talking over others.
Iori and salter is literally just the strongest SR saber of today vs the strongest SR saber in history meme lmao
Unfortunately I couldn't watch it all live but it will be an amazing podcast to listen to in the background!
On one of my favourite servants,that is getting a bit worse year after year I basically copy my thoughts on him that I wrote on Plushie's Iori hot take.
A thing that kinda saddens me is that Rama now is getting overpowered not only by his gacha competitors (Tsuna,that in part share the same niche as him but have a much better kit, and Roland) but now even from welfares like Iori,that is basically a SSR,but also Saber Liz since she have more Np damage than him.
While he can have a big crit turn,the others can compensate with multiple turns of crits,better survival ability and overall a better kit.
I truly hope he gets a new rank up or at least have Sita in the game....
Otto trying to cook but burning his take is always really funny. Glad to see you bring on more guests for these.
Damn this feels like an episode of the Smabcast but more focused.
This may sounds stupid but i tested my Charlie on last anni damage test and tried to push his brave king trait to the max with Odysseus taunt on him, and Waver+Reines as his support. Both def were up to protect him on the first 3T, turn 4 i got lucky the enemies kept targeting him so i had full count trait on Charlie, and oh boi the damage he did just from his trait multiplier alone on the next turn were insane!The enemies he faced that time are all 3 knight class servants (i forgot the HP number but i think it was the same as lv.90 or 90+ node?) but he completely obliterated them despite the class disadvantage. I didn't have any meta support at that time, so i was so surprised the dmg he could deal only with Reines and Waver (forgot the exact number but it was above 1.3 million).
I know it's not min turn and he has to wait until his trait stacked up, and it's not consistent and a bit too tricky to use, but i just wanna tell the potential he has outside farming.
For farming, before i got S.Skadi, i liked to pair him with Komahime and throw his invul on her. His and Koma's Np gain buff is enough to BG farm with support Skadi and my own Waver. Too bad he's already bond 15 and has to retire early :(
Edit : found my dmg test record, his final dmg was actually above 1.8 million....
Love the tierlist. Thanks for hosting Myst. I'm deep in the smobcast rabbit hole so listening to Otto and Plushie for hours is always a great time.
Hell yeah! Honestly the more people in these the better. I watch a lot of people's tier lists, and inevitably you hit a string of servants who the guy doesn't have on any account and has never played, and they always try to do some hot takes on these characters they have no experience with and it sucks. Having more players makes it more likely that at least *SOMEONE* has used every character.
Thanks for doing it again this year Myst! I always ended up going back to these types of videos to check some specific information.
That being said, it would be cool if you made some more eye-catching thumbnails this year too, it would helps to differentiate it from other videos in the feed.
I actually really like the idea of the trio taking turns reading the servant pages, I feel it adds different perspective and let's Myst take a breather every now and then
I hope we can see more of that in the next tier lists
I've been using Muramasa nonstop since he got released on NA and I agree with plushie and Ottobean
He just doesn't belong in the Arts meta considering how Castoria can neither give him consisten stars regen/bombs, star absorption, critic potential or cooldown reduction to use his 1 turn abilities more often.
The only thing she can do is enable him to loop, which is only 1 of the 2 things he can do and xNaya's buster Muramasa meme video showcased that perfectly.
Out of curiosity would Waver+Castoria be a decent comp for Muramasa? Im assuming Waver fills the crit support role and you still get arts support with castoria
@@Arti_The_Great It is actually thats is my combo. I barely use 2 castorias with muramasa mainly because i dont have a castoria of my own but also because Castoria skills are not that effective in Muramasa.
Don’t they have salter in ex when she is literally just a looper? This whole list is just weird
Myst x smobcast is the best Collab in fgo. I legit think that this one of few tier list with watching, due to the back and forth discussions. You may not agree with the placements, but at least you know why they are there.
Got so excited when I saw plushie and Otto this time!
Please keep Otto and plushie on for every tier list this year, the seven hour yappening session made the vid extremely entertaining!
Thanks for bringing these back for us on 2024! Great job with the tier list, as usual, especially with some newcomers in the past year on JP like Saber Medusa and how she fairs as a ST saber in quite a loaded bunch.
I want to add though, that personally the three-way discussion for tier list dynamic felt over-saturated and moved it around a bit too much for my taste as a listener.
I think the dynamic between Myst leading the discussion and quality input from a single additional source, the Plushie Mistress, felt much more fluid the past year(s) and focused.
I think it's neat to have a guest for an introduction/kickoff tier list for the Sabers but moving forward if it could just be a 2-person discussion and breakdown, that'd be a better listening experience in my opinion. Just feels less biased and less shifty.
Cheers and looking forward to the others every week!
Holy shit you got otto on your commentary list? That's awesome!!! I can't wait to watch the entire thing
Yesss something to listen to while I slog through work! A&P school be tough sometimes
Would you be willing to add a couple more lists this year? Above all I'd LOVE a Mystic Code resource because no one talks abt the value of ones outside of literally just Plug and sometimes 2004.
Would also love a Command Codes tier list for similar reasons but I'm aware CEs are prolly far more practical.
We're getting to the point where your yearly tier lists are some of the only meta discussion content left for the game. We got plenty of people talking abt the strength of units but if I roll Bazett and wanna know what CCs to put on her cards I've got very few options for help, with some just being flat out wrong. If I MLB a gacha CE while rolling for a servant while 90% of the time most CEs aren't worth leveling it's still nice to see how strong it is compared to the field in case I do want to use something not named Black Grail and I still reference your last CE video for that.
I might revisit CCs and MCs again in the future too.
@@MystFGO God bless you you shinsengumi mf
This effort was amazing and you guys got me so excited for a lot of the servants coming this year and next. Especially Charlie, Trung Sisters And Saber Medusa! I'll be watching the rest and please keep up the wonderful work!
4:34:15
" it is rumoured that Okita feared his swordskill" (Reference: 3_cutting_edge_Nov13_shinsengumi)
Saito Hajime: A+ Tier Rank
Okita Souji: A Tier Rank
Somehow this is lore accurate lmao
It's crazy that we're finally at the 2024 Tier List series now, crazy how time flies.
Sad truth about muramasa is that his crit is not very reliable if you don’t have other people help bring stars in. I can’t count how many times I count on my muramasa to crit with his 15 starts then he misses because of the wierd stars distribution. It’s also just like plushie said, the typical art supports you want to use with him (on NA) like castoria can’t help very much with stars. I can’t wait for either pope johanna or lady avalon to join na so i can use my grailed np5 muramasa more.
that’s not really a problem in a normal min-turn setup with star bombs and such.
@@saeber6630 yeah but some time i just don’t wanna min turn. I just wanna do a normal run😅. And, if you are using star bombs, you kind have to pray that the rng god sides with you and kill the previous support so that the new one with the bomb can come in and they pray that you have the right hand (assuming that you already use plug). It’s just a little bit annoying to do for me. But yeah if we are willing to repeat until we are blessed by that then it’s not a problem.
@@MaMuangMingood thing you have options like hans. Plus you are underestimating his star gen with his second skill
@@lookingforlove839 100% stars gen is only 9 stars from his np on 3 targets tho, so you still have to pray for the brave chain to get more. The problem is if you have brave chain this turn you will likely not have it next turn unless it’s the reset turn.
Hans is good tho: easy to die lots of stars per turn but i think he give a bit too little damage boost (not counting the rng np). And, we kinda need hans on the field for us to have that stars per turn for a second time which is a lot of buff lost consider that could be another support with more umph like lady avalon or sth. So, i still prefer lady avalon or the pope which is totally understandable considering they are 5 stars and hans is only 2. If i prefer hans over any ssr support that would most likely mean that they are a bad ssr.
It's that time of the year. Thank you, Myst, for your excellent and tireless work. May you be blessed with your future rolls.
that iori rant was crazy but on point
My thoughts on the tier list.
You aren’t reading the crit sheet right. You focus on the BBB damage. But quick/arts servants have quick/arts up not buster up.
Jason should be B or even B+. Yes Artoria exists, but she needs Kscope to no-plug loop, so even with just the free options he can be really nice for looping if you don’t already need plug for damage. Plus 1 star cost lets you be more flexible for bond gain.
Suzuka’s star gen is 3 turns unlike what plushie thought (though I agree with placement anyway)
Diarmuid is basically just worse in every way than Fran. No idea why he is rated so much higher. At NP1 because of the skill 1 demerit for Fran I can see them being the same tier, or if Diarmuid has a notably higher NP level (like NP5 Diarmuid to NP2 Fran) but otherwise I would always pick Fran over Diarmuid.
I use Lan ling way more than Lakshimi bai. Sure the targeted defense is nice, the buff success being party wide is nice. But Lakshimi has 50% less damage buffs (when counting Lanling’s NP) and no battery at all.
No idea why people hype Iori so much more than Setanta (ok that’s a bit of a lie, I know why, Setanta is quick and people only care about farming). But Setanta is literally just better in every way as a DPS. Setanta has better star generation, even when considering stars per turn, way better np damage, ignore defense, and debuff clear. His deck is worse for critting, but he has way better np gain, and more crit damage buffs to make up for it. One more buster card isn’t going to overcome the difference in damage between the NPs, let alone between the NPs damage, spammability, and then also another non-buster crit. The 30% np charge does matter a lot in farming, but outside of that, Setanta gets 10% back every NP with support, that is 30% in the timeframe of buffs, not even counting that Setanta has more np gain on facecards. Even on defense, Buster isn’t any better than quick is. Merlin’s lower charge amount really hurts damage in practice, so you can just run Setanta with Castoria to be comparable there. And for low rarities, 50% buster for 1 turn isn’t much. Boudica with CC or Mata Hari are far better as general supports anyway for both buster and quick. That Setanta is two ranks below Iori (and a rank below Santa Karna) is ridiculous. Setanta does significantly more damage on NPQQ with double Caster Skadi than Iori with double Koyan on NPBB (800k NP +530k crits vs 500k NP and 450k crits) or Santa Karna with NPQQ double Caster Skadi (644k NP 550k crits) or NPBB, with one caster skadi one ruler skadi for the most damage (644k NP and 276k on crits) Damage isn’t everything. But Setanta also has the best np gain, best utility, and they all have the same defense. Even Theseus with his 3 star stats and arts focus meaning one of his supports crit focused (ie running Castoria+Lady Avalon) does only 120k damage less on an NPAA chain than Iori on NPBB. And that is someone you said was severely hampered by his stats.
Shiki farms better than you give credit for, she can easily Black Grail 3/3/X with plug, and handles even 1/1/ berserkers with 50% start charge and Oberon, making her better than any buster servant in pure looping and when running a 50% CE (ie Ocean Flier vs Cranking) better wave 1 damage than any buster saber, better wave 2 damage than any buster saber but Artoria. Her wave 3 damage is lower because of Oberon’s buster up, but who cares if you do 200k or 250k when the enemy has 180k hp. (Plus arts can use a Castoria NP in farming to further help things) I would rate her over Artoria for sure.
For the Musashi discussion. The sheet is very misleading on buster servants that both don’t have attack up and can’t double stack skill buffs (which aren’t that many, but Musashi is one of them), even just Reines+Koyanskaya lets her do much higher NP damage (though still less than the quick SSR servants in raw damage) Triverr saying she is mid is true, in a double Koyan team. But for CQs you don’t run this comp much anyway. This is generally fine as stacking the skills makes up for (or surpasses) the other options in damage usually. But not for Musashi. That said, she is still below the quick servants in damage overall.
I am a huge Sigurd fan and have him at NP5 level 110, so maybe this is me seeing too much into his flaws when I have a very strong copy, but I think he is the worst SSR (or at least worst ST SSR, comparing AoE and ST can be hard sometimes) in the entire game, I think he is worse than Rama even with the SSR stats and should probably be D+. Even against lancer Dragons he is only like the 9th highest damaging NP in the game overall. He needs to be up against a lancer dragon with no break bars or other traits to even be remotely usable. He barely hangs in there damage wise on the spreadsheets, and that ignores that his 3 time buster buffs can’t be used on crits if he wants to get that NP damage and vice versa. When you consider that, he has the second lowest NP damage of any SSR, and nowhere close to the utility or niches to make up for it.
Sidenote: Georgios thing isn’t a meme for minturns. He boosts damage quite high for Kriemhild/Sigurd let alone Siegfried (I think the highest of all servants in terms of 3 turn buffs) and then taunts himself off the field. He just can’t repeatedly give damage buffs, and his taunt means he wants to die, so his ability to give repeatable damage is low. Kriemhild especially (because everyone else is either AoE, doesn’t get much damage out of it, or is named Sigurd) sees Georgios with Kscope as a staple in min turn comps, such has her min turn of the Morgan super recollection quest.
Not sure I agree with Ibuki being better than Mordred or Altera. Definitely worse farming (I would say than either, despite Altera’s lower battery) and not really that much better as a DPS (Especially when considering that Altera who has the lowest crit damage of the 3, also doesn’t have hit based buffs so his more consistent) Sure you can run Summer Wu for damage, but that loses out on NP spam. Especially with both being NP1 where the NP upgrade matters. I do agree she is better than Muramasa. But I think the others are as well. Probably would move both of them down a tier and Altera up one. (though birthday is birthday so...)
Medusa saber not being EX tier is a tragedy. She is basically the best ST saber by nearly every metric you could have (even damage which is plushie's main complaint she is the highest over multiple turns with supports when considering crits and NP). Whether it’s damage in a team or ability to solo. Even for looping, she brings as much battery+refund as Trung sisters if you give them the same support (though Castoria means Trung sisters do still loop easier without face cards)
Fr they shoulda had you on instead.
Ya I agree with you but 1 thing I will say about Ibuki is that ignore def/inul is really powerful in CQ. I mean we just had Tesla fest and she shines better than Artoria and Mordred there. And that is why she didn't get that on her Zerk NP.
Another thing is the Trung sisters and Disco Twins should be swapped.
Saber tierlist dropped! This I going to be interesting considering that saber meta has shifted quite a bit
Years ago in a Lottery, I needed Artoria's Art card to lock in a 3 turn.
When she got the Buster Card change skill, I was not excited lol
Woke up, saw ottobean, am happy😊
Love the video, but I have one request:
Please say more things out loud! I listen to this video like a podcast on my daily commute and it gets frustrating when things like the final servant rating is left unsaid. I understand that it's on the screen, but for those of us who only listen like a podcast, it gets kind of frustrating.
Other than that, I love having Otto on. My playstyle is definitely closest to Plushie so having someone on the other side of the spectrum is refreshing.
Thanks again for the tier list I always enjoy having your guys opinions on these servants
The Mordred placement puzzles me a bit. Why are there two SSR farmers above her that do worse damage (aside from Okita turn 1) and also require refund? If the reason is that she can't also function as a boss killer, that seems iffy. I think her crit playstyle is being undermined. Even then, you should mostly consider the primary role. If you want to argue that Ibuki is a better crit dps boss killer, sure, but it's not like Mordred can't also excel in that playstyle while shitting on her farming numbers. Idk
I’m still confused on ibuki being ex lol
I think it’s just because mordred still need starting charge while those above her do not, except ibuki. But, ibuki have better cq potential due to pierce invul and ignore def.
@@MaMuangMin That could've actually mattered if CQs aren't a 1 and done thing that you have no reason to repeat over
@@MaMuangMin Also an NP seal, and having gorilla deck also make how strong Ibuki is. She is definitely a CQ built servant.
@@MaMuangMin Why would that matter? They need refund instead, and their damage is still lower even with BG
The Mordred and Altera placements make no sense at all as they are around the same level as Ibuki Douji, but to see a 2 and 3 rank gap is pretty hilarious, not going to lie.
How is Altera who clears Ibuki Douji in farming by 12k/17k/58k 3 levels below her? Because of CQ? How is Altera bad at CQ? That's all she had before she got her charge buff.
Altera has 20% np dmg, removes defensive buffs, 30% np charge, 30% crit dmg, 120% debuff resistance, 3k heal, star absorb, 30% attack, 15 star bomb and an upgraded NP that lowers defense.
The main thing she lacks compared to Ibuki Douji is np seal, buster up, def up and undead trait. Buster up doesn't matter due to supports (Vitch Light and Dark, Oberon, Merlin, Shake etc). I'll ignore the defense up because Altera can heal.....
So now you have NP seal and Undead trait damage... that's worth going from A rank up to EX? C'mon now that's cap.
I would put all 3 of them in S tier as they're clearly a step above Artoria right now, Ibuki is EX if she gets an NP buff.
And this is assuming you even put much capital on CQ because Salter is trash at that compared to these 3. Salter is also dependent on having Black Grail while Altera/Mordred/Ibuki can use any 50% CE and Mordred has overcharge CEs as well.
It might be a bit misleading but Altera/Artoria are only 1 tier below Ibuki in the final placements. A+ is half of a tier and S is like a quarter between A+ and EX. I know it's a bit silly but it's fun to be more precise.
Salter can do just fine with a 50 charge ce
She just doesn't need the extra charge
@@MystFGOMyst it’s okay. FGO players and reading has always been a challenge.
@@MystFGO Not to be that guy about this, but Mordred is SIGNIFICANTLY better than Ibuki in basically every catagory.
Ibuki being in EX and Mordred being stuck in A+ with a bonus tier between them is really freaking dumb.
@@rancorrage5646Imo I don’t think that Mordred is better than Ibuki in *every category*
I favour Ibuki way more for CQ potential more than Mordred tbh thx to her Ignore Invul and Ignore Def plus extra utility in the form of an np seal. Before people make an argument that “oh you can just a slap a CE or support that gives this X servant the advantage”, so can Ibuki. Both can act as strong Crit DPS whenever u want them to. Both can farm, while Mordred does it a little better thanks to an upgraded Np.
Plushie also makes a good point about having a triple buster deck for consistency. That CQ potential for Ibuki is what really sells her, while also having great numbers as a DPS. Farming isn’t her strongest suit in comparison but at least she can do it. The numbers ain’t even that half bad. Just not that bright in comparison to her competition (Artoria, Mordred, Salter, Altera etc.)
My only gripe is that if Ibuki Is EX tier (which I’m absolutely fine with), Mordred should be at least S and Artoria at A+ for her Np dmg at least. Yes she’s basic but she still hits rly hard.
One very underrated thing about Bedivere is that his 30% battery is flat, meaning you don't have to level it to be able to use him in stuff like farming runs, which is really nice. You basically only ever need to level his first skill, unless you want the lower CDs for longer fights where he's the main DPS.
Hopefully your synergy will be better as you do the tierlist together, there was a lot of talking over each other and awkward moments at times.
Edit: Also I think grading gold units at NP1 is a bit outdated, at least for 4* servants, this late into the game.
OG Saber dethroned by Edgy Saber 😢
At least in terms of FGO, Salter always has been better than Saber. Idk why but they just don't want to do any story stuff with saber while Salter gets so much love. I won't complain though.
Don't worry, she still has her charisma to be buffed, so maybe they'll bring something crazy
@@PauloCaparas-j9jThat goes double for Salter, she is going to be nuts with charisma buff. *inhales copium*
She'll still be a worse Salter if she gets a bit more damage on charisma @@PauloCaparas-j9j
She needs something else to be on the level of Mordred, Altera and Ibuki Douji than just damage, Mordred has defense and debuff clear as well as way better crits, Altera is a CQ powerhouse, Ibuki is in between those two.
Buff Seibah's charisma waiting room, maybe they do that anni 9 or 10. Sick of these basic charisma skills.
NP animation tier list 2024?
I loe watching these Tier List videos, thank you all for the time and effort you put in.
The Muramasa slander is crazy, tho I would agree he aged.
One thing I would point is he doesn't suck at generating stars, he has 100% star gen and can drop instant stars. Not to mention the presence of Lady Avalon and Popess has shown that Arts Crits is a legit style and can work as a plug suit/secondary support.
Great video.
I like the 3 man convo, makes it a kinda semi-podcast
If you like the 6-7+ hours keep doing your thing but if you want to shave some time off you may want to look at only talking about new units, units that changed because the meta changed (like a new meta support got added to the game) and units that got buffs since the last tier list. People who want to know why an older, unchanged character is placed the way it is can quickly look up the relevant part of last year's video, GOD BLESS YOU FOR THE TIME STAMPS.
Thank you so muchhh. I love your channel and will continue supporting❤
Pretty thorough tier list done live, with a large cast of servants, i feel like im asking the impossible here but i feel there should be three kinds of tier list when it comes to servants. The 1st how good they farm, just clearning the average wave, 2nd challenge quest ability, and 3rd utility how good they help synergies with the team and patch holes. I feel like that would help new and mid game players get an idea what they should invest in
Thank you for yet another awesome tier list video! I watch them often to get opinions on upcoming servants and who I should roll for xP Amazing discussions, solid rundowns, really enjoyed watching the whole thing
If the tier lists will have more people from now, I think divying up the tier list equally between everyone would make things smoother with less people talking over each other.
And saving the discussion for AFTER the skill rundown could help too
While most of the List seems good, I hard disagree with the creation of the "S-Tier". Just because bias didnt want you admit that Medusa Saber is better than Okita, and this notion that Okita is still somehow the pinnacle of single target simply because her cards her strong, when that doesnt and shouldnt allow her to make up for her lack of skill up time and virtually no flexibility or useful skills in challenges as she cannot punch through Dodge/Invin and ignore defense is suspect more and more too as many bosses now get damage resistence which isnt defense up.
The sad truth is the 1 turn skills on Muramasa hurts, only Khad is supportive of Muramasa. Those skills need a touch up like Plushie said. Like Durga. 3 turns for the skills would help a great deal.
Not sure why when he has the exact same problem as Artoria, 1 pump chumps.
Thanks for the tier lists! Just realized they're dropping and gonna start binging them.
The only thing I personally kinda disagree with by the end is Gawain being in B+ instead of B since his Sunlight Battlefield buff only lasts for 1 turn so a lot of his kit is limited to that 1 turn burst while pretty much everyone else in the same tier has similar performance but for longer turn counts.
But yeah, thanks again for your time and, to everyone, good luck with your pulls for whomever you're going for in the future!
I think an interesting follow up to these tier list videos would be theorizing about buffs that could push the B tier and below servants up to A and above.
For example I’m a big fan of Lakshmibai, and an np buff for damage and doubling down on her support potential would easily put her into the top echelons of 4 star sabers, and I’d be interested in seeing that applied to the rest of the cast.
7 hours?? Guess I don't have to think about my entertainment plans for this late afternoon, evening and night, haha!
I know no-one will see this, but I'd like to offer an unpopular opinion. I really like this format, I'm watching it for the third year in a row, but this year you're too... tough? Maybe it's just me, but compared to previous years, there's a sense of unwarranted aggression towards some of the characters. I really like Plushie and Otto, but they make the atmosphere of the tier lists get lost. It feels like I'm watching their podcast instead
Anyway thanks for the video and the stream
We are trying to be a more tough this year because realistically a lot of the Servants just won't see much use besides from people who simp them sadly so I feel like that being realistic while tough, is good.
@@MystFGO Thank you for reply, I’m kinda surprised
I get it, it’s good that you are more objective this year, but you are overdoing it and it feels like you are criticizing for the sake of criticism and hot takes, and not a real assessment of the characters
I'm sure Otto calls Iori boring because he's salty Ibuki Saber WISHES she was as good as him
I must clear up this is but a joke lmao
Mordred finally outperforms her father...
Only to be outperformed by the edgy version of her father.
Crazy those buffs happened in the same year.
Otto have some interesting view and opinion, these 3 have made the tier list more fun and fair than the 2023 tier list for sure. I hope that other tier lists this year could run like this
I gotta say I like this tier list a lot more than ZTL’s recent saber tier list. No shade but a lot of the placements feel a lot more on point
Love this 3 way discussion!
Void in A was all I wanted to see. She’s improved a lot with all of her buffs. Not perfect, but very serviceable with nice utility.
Appreciate you guys so much for the content.
I love that they made Iori a good servant first and THEN a welfare. Welfare kits tend to be tightly balanced around their Np5 status. Not this guy though
I wonder if more ppl takes double oberon in consideration for farming with single core parties, since he allows anything with 10% np refound/battery in the second wave (100% in the first + second 50% np charger) to loop. Buster beeing the desired color to use this system.
Will you also be doing CE tier lists after all the classes this year again? Those are super useful since its hard to keep up with all the new CE's effects
Possibly could revisit those too yeah.
Plushie brought up a good point, Muramasa should have been Buster NP and survivial skill.
Listened to this video on the background while working today. It's nice to see these come back again this year.
A bit weirded out by the strange placements of the low rarity servants (I get that the evocation system puts most of them lower in comparison to welfare SRs, but they still should be easily comparable with each other, while you seem to have evaluated them by how replace able they are by welfare SRs, so Fergus and NP1 Bedivere got propelled too high, while Caesar and Jason got dragged down, and I do not believe either of these were deserved), but half the fun of these videos is getting irrationally angry about opinions of other people, so on this front this video has delivered on its promise.
Tomoe summer actually does a pretty good amount of dmg to farm with her, you can actually take the mage mystic and x2 castoria with full append, ocean flyer and you can comfortably farm any type(minus archers). With plug you can actually farm everything. I've been using her since she was released for every different type of farm event and she hasn't dissapointed me once, just need a bit of an investment and that's it. Recommend to pull for her if you're a veteran player and ofc if you like her is a must pull.
Poor summer Gareth, she has no reason to be so undercooked especially when comparing her to even servants like Theseus... still gonna grail and np 5 her, love over power ❤❤❤
Some day we will get justice for Gareth
@@MystFGO praying for the Murasaki treatment
I will treat this as an objective tier list and therefore say that Muramasa is definitely EX+++ tier y'all.
Something that I feel might get missed is that arts synergy servants really are a little more generically valuable simply for 'being arts'. You can throw together any arts team haphazardly, blind, into a lostbelt story or event story node, get surprised by a boss, and then often just beat it first try simply by virtue of the fact that your team is arts. It's ridiculous. As Castoria brings defensive power that Koyan and Skadi don't bring.
I get the feeling that this is something that people try not to talk about out of a sense of fairness, but it's there. It is what it is.
This makes me push Muramasa into the same tier as summer Okita Alter, for example. I ended up getting a NP3 okita from luck so tbh she's still gonna be much stronger for me, but if they were both NP3 I'd be using muramasa way more.
i still use jason to this day since he's the only saber i can loop with. well, i do have summer okitan but i don't have skadi. uh huh, i failed to get skadi trice in total. very cool
took a few days, but finally watched the whole thing. cant wait for the rest of these
Dioscuri being so high is insane. They're bad. I mean I have them grailed to 100 and NP5, love them for sure, but they're bad. Their skills are actually just terrible. Skill 1 should have some kind of damage up, and skill 2 should be like 3 turns, or skill 3 should be more than just 20%. Plushie is right, they have no damage, and they scale badly in teams.
They exist with a kit designed for before Castoria exists, where their quick and arts cards are interchangable, but since castoria came out their np gain is no longer special.
But they just do no damage, every time I use them I'm amazed how little damage they do.
They're B rank at best, probably C rank.
They can ignore all type of def and invencibles and to be arts they can generate a great amount of stars
@@InvaderZim500 And? There are easy ways to get those. Their damage is still bad, and their skills are bad. I don't think people need to try and cope them into being good, its fine to like them, but they're just not good.
But Ryou, did they get the Muramasa placement correct?
@@id10terror15 at least A+, is better than magno than the only special are niche damage than you never know when are efective or no
@@RyouEmeraldcan't you just use Lancelot for the ignore defense, give him a (good) invul pierce CE and just do more damage than Dioscuri with BG?
Can't wait to spend the next few days working through this
I think you could turn to make the reading of the servant overall kit, that way myst doesn’t die and the other participants feel more included than just making an opinion at the end where myst kinda try to put the servant in the postion he wants to, he did considerate the opinions a few times but maybe it should be more like “okay we agree on this position” even if the opinion of some of you is a bit different, but at the same time, i really enjoyed, this is the first time that i heard the whole thing, that is cool 🎉🎉
In Rama's defense, even tho its a np1 vs np 5 welfare comparison which doesn't do justice, Rama is a straight up 150% Anti demonic while for Tsuna, unless your hitting oni enemies he's only hitting 20% although he has better general skills and face cards. Rama was actually used in a certain ordeal call and Advanced quest I think? while it's actually more rare to see people using Tsuna as a main dps in anything difficult as Rama could face because let's be honest you don't go around looking for that 2~3 Berserker Oni boss fights in the entire game and go "this character is bat shit insane"
Rama might just be like Siegfried where he does extremely well at one thing but is below average in general usage
+ In the comparison with Lan Ling Wang and Lakshimibai (as a support)
Lan with his np can buff 1 Arts main dps with 50% atk and 20% arts up while Lak only has her 20% atk up
I've used Lan in multiple story boss fights in some lostbelts and he is extremely useful as a budget plug suit supporter, and with his defensive capabilities, he goes along well with servants like Castoria or Waver, not necessarily becomes replaced by them especially if you don't need the crit buffs if the arts dps is a NP nuke based.
That being said Lak does offer defensive with her second skill to a target ally and removes offensive buffs on her np yes, but I honestly believe Lan is lower only because he is in a sense replaceable, not because he's worse than Lak support wise. Lak feels more of a tactical support while Lan is a burst support who also can reduce enemy np by 1 and 'help' tank longer(?) while Lak can only protect 1 person 1 turn
The funny thing with Lak is, even though she's technically more universal skill wise, she doesn't really synergize with other supports like Lan does, she feels more like a stand alone support who can also dps like Caesar but that's just my opinion. I personally don't agree that Lak is simply a better support than Lan just because Lan is usually used in art teams and is deemed less utility wise. plus as a support, his np is way more easier to spam.
I'm a bit surprised that this only lasted 6-7 hours. I lowkey expected this one to last 10 hours because I know that Plushie and Otto together got lost on a tangent pretty frequently (not that I mind lol). I would love for Plushie and Otto to join you again whenever possible. Both of them can offer different (but very related) perspectives on the game and the servants.
Welp time for many hours spent watching someone rate each class again.
When the released Muramasa back in the day I thought he was about as complete as a servant could be, totally loaded with skills. It seemed like they would never even need to buff him, and now we have the guy two tiers down. I do think you're underestimating the value he brings, being good in every saber related content (farming, challenge, etc.), so I wouldn't put him any lower than top S. That said, he does have a few areas that could be buffed.
They are trolling with Muramasa and Artoria placement but both should have 3 turn buffs
As a muramasa user i kinda have to agree with this. I mean as i said before i wont even try to summon for summer ibuki. Muramasa is by faaaaar better than most sabers in the A+ tier in term of burst damage so i usually use him as both a farmer and a boss killer. If he gets a buff on any of his skills he can jump from A to Ex in this tierlist in a snap.
When he gets the cards right and he start refilling 50% gauge with literally just 1 card you understand how broken is Murama´s potential. Sadly they really do a "good work" keeping his skills in check.
Finally managed to get np5 bedivere, i got him up to np4 during a knights banner lol. imma bout to clear 8th(?) Singularity and get him maxed out
Mostly done. I think this was the best tier list video you've done. Hope the guests will return.
I've been waiting for this for long time
LETS GOOOOO This will help my study sessions a lot