I think the problem is that all D.Min.'s are not created equal. I have seen some institutions where the D.Min. should really be an M.Min. and others where the D.Min. is only called that instead of a PhD because of the practical focus, but the workload is the same. I chose the PhD route, but I don't automatically discount a D.Min.
Of course not all PhD's are created equal either! I don't automatically discount someone doing a DMin either. But it is very rare to find a DMin program that has the requisit standards to be a doctoral degree. And I think it is worth calling attention to the problem that seems rather pervasive. ~ Jordan
@@chryllcrews5397 I can only speak from my own experience. The D.Min. program that I enrolled in was from an accredited university and had a very real amount of coursework associated with it, as well as a very real amount of research and writing. The program also had a very real requirement that I address a ministerial problem within the church. I had to address the problem and seek to create ways to solve the problem. My final paper was over 120 pages, which also had to be presented and defended before a seasoned professor. Therefore, it is my conclusion that the D.Min. is a very real Doctoral degree. A Doctor of Ministry is essentially and practically a doctor of the church in every way possible. BTW, I also have a very real amount of student loans to pay off!!!
How can some preacher becoming more successful than people that have PHD/DMin in general...? On the other hand, some experience Cristhians prefer DMin over the PHD since they consider it more practical for the church needs at these days than doing research in theological research...? God bless everyone there and thank you for sharing. Shalom, Shalom
Several significant problems with the host's viewpoint. First, he seems to believe that a research doctorate is the only doctorate (i.e., doctorate = PhD). This assumes the illegitimacy of professional doctorates like the DMin, MD, DBA, or JD. Second, most good DMin programs require an intense amount of work. My own program (SBTS) requires around 2800 pages of reading, 60 pages of written assignments, including research papers, and a seminar week comprised of 40 hours of classroom instruction. That is, DMin seminars are not terribly different than PhD seminars (not "refresher courses," as was said). Third, most good DMin programs provide students the option of a considerable research thesis or project. The notion that projects are merely "ten lessons in hermeneutics" is both absurd and untrue. Those who pursue a project are required not merely to complete a project but to write their project, which is tantamount to about 1/2 of a conventional PhD dissertation. Fourth, while one can get into a PhD program with an MA, most DMin programs require an MDiv with at least two years of both biblical languages. Admittedly, a research language is not required. The DMin usually requires substantially more graduate work for admission. My suggestion here is that the host has painted with an ill-informed and rather broad brush.
Not to mention that most, if not all, DMin programs require 3 years of ministry service, typically after the MDiv, prior to admission. So the process looks like this: Bachelor degree= 4 years MDiv= 3 years 3 years of ministry service DMin= 3 years. That means we are looking at someone who has dedicated 13 years of academic work (professionally tilted of course) plus the education you mentioned. So, the DMin is not a slouch degree. Just a different focus.
I wanted to reach out after watching your recent video on the Doctor of Ministry (D.Min.) degree. I’m currently pursuing my master’s in Christian apologetics and have been considering options for furthering my education, including a D.Min. As I look at different doctoral paths, I find it frustrating that there seems to be a stigma attached to professional doctorates, particularly the D.Min., compared to the Ph.D. or other academic doctorates. It’s as if the applied focus of a D.Min. makes it less worthy in the eyes of some, despite the real value it provides to those working in ministry. What I find especially challenging is that this divide in academic recognition seems to mirror dynamics in other fields. For example, my wife holds a Doctor of Physical Therapy (DPT) degree and has experienced similar “second-class” treatment compared to other healthcare professionals. Although her work profoundly impacts her patients, it can be overshadowed by those who believe her training lacks rigor simply because it’s a different type of doctorate. That same dismissive attitude toward professional doctorates, such as the D.Min. or DPT, overlooks the significant expertise and experience these paths cultivate. Historically, education in many cultures carried a title of “doctor” with far less academic division-those with advanced learning were respected for the knowledge they brought, not the specific letters after their name. In today’s landscape, however, it feels that the emphasis has shifted more to classification than to contribution, creating an unnecessary hierarchy. This undermines the purpose and dignity of degrees that are applied in nature, whether in ministry, healthcare, or other fields. Ultimately, my hope is to see the value of each doctorate, including the D.Min., recognized for its unique strengths. If the aim is truly to benefit the community-whether in a church, clinic, or classroom-then it seems short-sighted to denigrate one path just because it doesn’t fit a narrow academic mold. All paths of advanced learning require commitment, and each offers something crucial to the people they serve. Thank you for your thoughts on this subject, and I appreciate your work sparking these discussions.
Hi Brother, thanks for reaching out and sharing your thoughts! I think the DMin is a fine degree so long as you understand it's purpose. However, I think most that are seeking additional education could be better served by alternative degrees like the ThM. I wouldn't compare the DMin to a DPT. My issues with the DMin are not that it has a different focus or is "professional" but that it lacks the quality that should be expected of a degree of its stature. However, like you said, if the aim is truly to benefit the community, and if all education is good, then yes, one for the DMin! ~ Jordan
@@thelondonlyceum Hey Jordan, thanks for reaching out and sharing your thoughts! Since watching the video and making my first comment, I’ve taken some time to do a deeper dive into this subject-not so much about the D.Min. being viewed as “less than,” but about the different paths available now. I’m not sure when you completed your studies, but it looks like there are now several directions for those pursuing a D.Min. After reflecting on it, I’ve decided that once I finish my master’s, I’ll be switching schools to pursue an M.Div. I’m realizing that, like you pointed out, I value a practical, hands-on education that emphasizes preaching and ministry skills. I hadn’t even planned on returning to school for my master’s, but the situation made it necessary. So once I wrap up my current courses, the M.Div. feels like the right step to gain the practical experience I’m looking for. As for a Ph.D., I don’t see myself as an educator and don’t have the desire to go that route. It’s unfortunate that some larger churches focus on having a doctorate for certain roles, regardless of one’s actual abilities. Some of the best preachers I know don’t have advanced degrees, and it hasn’t limited their impact. If you have the calling and ability, the title shouldn’t matter as much. Anyway, thanks again for the discussion, and I hope you have a blessed week!
A PhD is an academic degree and tip-top in academia. The DMin is a professional degree and is applicable in the field of ministry. Each has different requirements and is seen accordingly.
Perhaps I've been misled, but my understanding was that the DMin and the PhD were accomplishing two different objectives. My understanding was that the DMin was designed to be the terminal ministerial degree, completed after an MDiv (also a ministerial degree). Since it is not a research degree the recipient is not judged competent for academic instruction, but for church ministry. The ThM on the other hand is an academic degree, and it is designed to precede the PhD, the terminal academic degree. Obviously it is designed to grant academic proficiency, and therefore the recipient is judged competent to teach. Going from an MDiv to a PhD should be considered something of a change in direction, and probably should require some leveling material.
Agree they should be accomplishing different objectives. But the objective of the DMin is not a doctoral objective. And of course the DMin does currently qualify someone for academic instruction (though I don't think it should). ~ Jordan
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, that said, my opinion is this is way off base. By and large, the biggest criticism of the DMin is: it's not a PhD and does not produce outcomes such as that of a PhD. When in fact, it was never designed to be in the first place. If anything, the ire should be aimed at honorary doctorate holders who "demand" being called "Doctor"...not the DMin. Comparing a DMin to a PhD is like comparing cars and boats. They are two very different degrees intended to produce very different outcomes. A PhD is by design an academic research degree designed for those who have an interest in conducting original research to add to the vast realm of knowledge, hence the term "philosophy". All programs aren't created equal, but usually, a PhD candidate will address a “theoretical problem” by asking and answering research questions via the research process as it relates to whatever they are hypothesizing. On the other hand, the DMin is by design an applied professional doctorate designed to enhance one's knowledge and practice of ministry. All programs are not created equal, but DMin candidates generally conduct action-based field research, oftentimes referring to and employing theories conceptualized by PhD holders for the express purpose of solving an actual “real-life problem” in their ministry context. DMin degrees are for those who are solution-focused while engaged in boots-on-ground ministry, whether it be a traditional church or parachurch ministry context. Not to mention the fact that PhD holders oftentimes who teach the DMin courses. So even with a PhD, they can't design a challenging enough curriculum to make the DMin worthy...dude, stop it. The Christian witness suffers because we debate and argue menial matters such as these that are completely unrelated to the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. In closing, a DMin is very much a legitimate doctorate that is not only distinct from the PhD but has a very different purpose and intended outcome from the PhD. The two degrees are quite literally not comparable to one another. It is not a matter of which one is better per se, but which one is better for each individual person as it relates to the goals they wish to achieve.
Thanks for the spirited feedback! :) We obviously disagree but that's ok. Let me press you in two ways. First, if they are not comparable why must the DMin be called a doctorate? Why not call it a masters? By the nature of your comment, you are admitting that they *are* comparable in some respects. Second, it is certainly fair to say that since you can graduate with a DMin and your project be quite literally titled "Equipping Fantasy Football League Participants at XXXXX church..." (just saw this one last week!) I think my case can rest that it is not a legitimate doctorate degree. That isn't the same as saying that it is supposed to accomplish the same exact purpose or that it isn't useful in any sense (which are both claims I explicitly reject in this video.). Cheers! ~ Jordan
A D.Min is a doctor degree. It requires research for practical practice in ministry. Secondly, Dr, Doctor is a Latin word that means teacher or instructor. D.Min is a real degree.
What I think the DMin uniquely offers is an opportunity to write and defend an 80,000 word dissertation focused on theological integration that is peer reviewed by 2 advisors who are experts. That being said, there are only a handful of DMin programs that I think take the dissertation seriously (to be fair, i haven't spent a ton of time looking into it, haha). It is certainly less work than an American PhD, but I'm not sure how different a 3 year DMin at an institution that values the degree is from a 3 year PhD program in the UK in practical/applied theology. I think of Edinburgh, where virtually all American MDivs go for their PhD. No strict language requirements (I could be wrong but almost none of the programs I found in the UK have strict requirements), requiring just a masters degree (not all UK programs even require that) and thesis to apply. Like all British PhDs, you jump straight into dissertation writing. In that sense, the 4 DMin seminars are 4 more than what you get in the UK. Personally, I think it would do more seminaries well to offer a PhD in Applied Theology, with heightened admission standards, as opposed to the DMin. But I also think we are letting the slew of folks that go to the UK for their PhD off easy if we're not throwing them in the mix, especially since "practical theology" is a discipline over there: which is the entire point of a DMin (I don't have a DMin, by the way)
My hunch is that if you don't have a DMin or PhD, or haven't attempted to obtain one, you likely don't properly know the true distinctions. For example, peer review is said in many ways, and peer reviewers for DMin projects (I use that word intentionally because that is what it is self-described as--*not a dissertation*) know that the DMin is not a PhD and thus do not review it as such. It is reviewed as a project and not a research element. The DMin is *drastically* different than a PhD program in the UK. While there are not language requirements for the program as a whole you would not graduate without the languages in your specific research area. If studying Dutch theology, you would be reading the sources in Dutch, etc. Just because there is not required coursework does not mean there are not expected reading groups, etc. The UK model also assumes you have completed coursework in a prior research degree beyond the MDiv for admission. And certainly no DMin has a language requirement! ~ Jordan
@thelondonlyceum I get what you're saying, but I still think you're severely under-valuing the DMin for what it offers. It's not a degree in biblical exegesis or historical theology. It's a doctoral degree in applied theology focused on ministry practice. Like I mentioned before, there are only a handful of programs that I think really excel at this. But the ones that do, really do. For instance, Duke Div, Mercer, and Baylor's Truett are just a few examples of schools that absolutely do use the term "dissertation" or "thesis" for the culminating project. And I know at Duke, publication is an expectation for DMin candidates. Plus, the use of the term "project" itself is because the DMin requires field research in an actual setting. It's a fitting term (like in Ed, social work, or anthropology), not a concession of effortlessness. DMin candidates are making original contributions to their field and are doing real scholarship. Their field just isn't biblical or historical theology, as it would be for a PhD. Now, I would agree that you can expect a level of peer review in virtually all PhD programs that is consistent, compared to DMin advising varying by institution. A ThM Prepares you for a PhD, not for theological integration in a ministry setting. So getting a ThM wouldn't achieve the practitioner's goals in the way a DMin would. If someone with a DMin is claiming to have the expertise of someone with a PhD in Religion or Theology in their respective area, then I agree - that is silly. And maybe they don't need to be called Doctor. But I think you're drastically underselling the rigor and value of the degree. It is a real doctorate. It does produce experts. It's just not a PhD. And yeah, it is cringe when folks try to pretend it is. At least that's my opinion, anyway. God bless, sorry for the length of this lol. PS. I didn't mean to say the DMin and British PhD were the same exact degree. Sorry for any confusion.
This person does not know what he is saying. A D.Min is a DR doctoral degree. If what he is saying correct then all the accredited D.Min schools along with PHD needs to lose their accreditation bc the same accreditation body ATS - Accreditation of Theological Schools, accredited schools that offer both, D.Mins and PHDs
Yet another “our club is better” opinion. Where is the humility? They are different doctorates aimed at different outcomes. Just as MD is practicing medicines vs PhD in the lab. The sheer fact that you repeatedly said “you don’t have the right to be called ‘doctor’ so many times, reveals the arrogance of your heart. You deserve to be called “doctor” because of your degree - your other brothers are not worthy because they are not in your club. I sincerely hope you are not a pastor teaching that all are of equal value in Christ. As a fellow brother in Christ, I offer this advice. You should take this down. You should learn some humility, and you should honor your other brothers in Christ instead of looking down on them.
This video is based on generalizations and and a toxic ego trip or genuine advice based on research, not just some article? Then you end the video mentioning SIN for for someone wanting to have the title of Dr. Then you insult peoples efforts in what ever degree they feel like working towards? Then You have the audacity to say that they need to check their heart? Are you serious? My unsolicited advice to you would be that before you post videos like this to make people lose minutes of their life you should do some internal work first. Pointing fingers on things that you're not even informed of yourself is not healthy. I have a feeling that you know better, So i'm asking you to do better. Some of us actually wanted some advice.
I think the problem is that all D.Min.'s are not created equal. I have seen some institutions where the D.Min. should really be an M.Min. and others where the D.Min. is only called that instead of a PhD because of the practical focus, but the workload is the same. I chose the PhD route, but I don't automatically discount a D.Min.
Of course not all PhD's are created equal either! I don't automatically discount someone doing a DMin either. But it is very rare to find a DMin program that has the requisit standards to be a doctoral degree. And I think it is worth calling attention to the problem that seems rather pervasive. ~ Jordan
LOL! Have you noticed that the person with NO doctorate always wants to devalue someone with one? He is unqualified to judge either doctorate. SMDH.
@@chryllcrews5397 I can only speak from my own experience. The D.Min. program that I enrolled in was from an accredited university and had a very real amount of coursework associated with it, as well as a very real amount of research and writing. The program also had a very real requirement that I address a ministerial problem within the church. I had to address the problem and seek to create ways to solve the problem. My final paper was over 120 pages, which also had to be presented and defended before a seasoned professor. Therefore, it is my conclusion that the D.Min. is a very real Doctoral degree. A Doctor of Ministry is essentially and practically a doctor of the church in every way possible. BTW, I also have a very real amount of student loans to pay off!!!
How can some preacher becoming more successful than people that have PHD/DMin in general...? On the other hand, some experience Cristhians prefer DMin over the PHD since they consider it more practical for the church needs at these days than doing research in theological research...? God bless everyone there and thank you for sharing. Shalom, Shalom
Several significant problems with the host's viewpoint. First, he seems to believe that a research doctorate is the only doctorate (i.e., doctorate = PhD). This assumes the illegitimacy of professional doctorates like the DMin, MD, DBA, or JD. Second, most good DMin programs require an intense amount of work. My own program (SBTS) requires around 2800 pages of reading, 60 pages of written assignments, including research papers, and a seminar week comprised of 40 hours of classroom instruction. That is, DMin seminars are not terribly different than PhD seminars (not "refresher courses," as was said). Third, most good DMin programs provide students the option of a considerable research thesis or project. The notion that projects are merely "ten lessons in hermeneutics" is both absurd and untrue. Those who pursue a project are required not merely to complete a project but to write their project, which is tantamount to about 1/2 of a conventional PhD dissertation. Fourth, while one can get into a PhD program with an MA, most DMin programs require an MDiv with at least two years of both biblical languages. Admittedly, a research language is not required. The DMin usually requires substantially more graduate work for admission. My suggestion here is that the host has painted with an ill-informed and rather broad brush.
Not to mention that most, if not all, DMin programs require 3 years of ministry service, typically after the MDiv, prior to admission. So the process looks like this:
Bachelor degree= 4 years
MDiv= 3 years
3 years of ministry service
DMin= 3 years.
That means we are looking at someone who has dedicated 13 years of academic work (professionally tilted of course) plus the education you mentioned. So, the DMin is not a slouch degree. Just a different focus.
100% Agree
I wanted to reach out after watching your recent video on the Doctor of Ministry (D.Min.) degree. I’m currently pursuing my master’s in Christian apologetics and have been considering options for furthering my education, including a D.Min. As I look at different doctoral paths, I find it frustrating that there seems to be a stigma attached to professional doctorates, particularly the D.Min., compared to the Ph.D. or other academic doctorates. It’s as if the applied focus of a D.Min. makes it less worthy in the eyes of some, despite the real value it provides to those working in ministry.
What I find especially challenging is that this divide in academic recognition seems to mirror dynamics in other fields. For example, my wife holds a Doctor of Physical Therapy (DPT) degree and has experienced similar “second-class” treatment compared to other healthcare professionals. Although her work profoundly impacts her patients, it can be overshadowed by those who believe her training lacks rigor simply because it’s a different type of doctorate. That same dismissive attitude toward professional doctorates, such as the D.Min. or DPT, overlooks the significant expertise and experience these paths cultivate.
Historically, education in many cultures carried a title of “doctor” with far less academic division-those with advanced learning were respected for the knowledge they brought, not the specific letters after their name. In today’s landscape, however, it feels that the emphasis has shifted more to classification than to contribution, creating an unnecessary hierarchy. This undermines the purpose and dignity of degrees that are applied in nature, whether in ministry, healthcare, or other fields.
Ultimately, my hope is to see the value of each doctorate, including the D.Min., recognized for its unique strengths. If the aim is truly to benefit the community-whether in a church, clinic, or classroom-then it seems short-sighted to denigrate one path just because it doesn’t fit a narrow academic mold. All paths of advanced learning require commitment, and each offers something crucial to the people they serve.
Thank you for your thoughts on this subject, and I appreciate your work sparking these discussions.
Hi Brother, thanks for reaching out and sharing your thoughts! I think the DMin is a fine degree so long as you understand it's purpose. However, I think most that are seeking additional education could be better served by alternative degrees like the ThM. I wouldn't compare the DMin to a DPT. My issues with the DMin are not that it has a different focus or is "professional" but that it lacks the quality that should be expected of a degree of its stature. However, like you said, if the aim is truly to benefit the community, and if all education is good, then yes, one for the DMin! ~ Jordan
@@thelondonlyceum Hey Jordan, thanks for reaching out and sharing your thoughts! Since watching the video and making my first comment, I’ve taken some time to do a deeper dive into this subject-not so much about the D.Min. being viewed as “less than,” but about the different paths available now. I’m not sure when you completed your studies, but it looks like there are now several directions for those pursuing a D.Min.
After reflecting on it, I’ve decided that once I finish my master’s, I’ll be switching schools to pursue an M.Div. I’m realizing that, like you pointed out, I value a practical, hands-on education that emphasizes preaching and ministry skills. I hadn’t even planned on returning to school for my master’s, but the situation made it necessary. So once I wrap up my current courses, the M.Div. feels like the right step to gain the practical experience I’m looking for.
As for a Ph.D., I don’t see myself as an educator and don’t have the desire to go that route. It’s unfortunate that some larger churches focus on having a doctorate for certain roles, regardless of one’s actual abilities. Some of the best preachers I know don’t have advanced degrees, and it hasn’t limited their impact. If you have the calling and ability, the title shouldn’t matter as much.
Anyway, thanks again for the discussion, and I hope you have a blessed week!
A PhD is an academic degree and tip-top in academia. The DMin is a professional degree and is applicable in the field of ministry. Each has different requirements and is seen accordingly.
They should be seen accordingly, I agree! But they usually aren't. ~ Jordan
Perhaps I've been misled, but my understanding was that the DMin and the PhD were accomplishing two different objectives. My understanding was that the DMin was designed to be the terminal ministerial degree, completed after an MDiv (also a ministerial degree). Since it is not a research degree the recipient is not judged competent for academic instruction, but for church ministry.
The ThM on the other hand is an academic degree, and it is designed to precede the PhD, the terminal academic degree. Obviously it is designed to grant academic proficiency, and therefore the recipient is judged competent to teach.
Going from an MDiv to a PhD should be considered something of a change in direction, and probably should require some leveling material.
Some DMin degrees have significant research components, including dissertation.
Agree they should be accomplishing different objectives. But the objective of the DMin is not a doctoral objective. And of course the DMin does currently qualify someone for academic instruction (though I don't think it should). ~ Jordan
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, that said, my opinion is this is way off base. By and large, the biggest criticism of the DMin is: it's not a PhD and does not produce outcomes such as that of a PhD. When in fact, it was never designed to be in the first place. If anything, the ire should be aimed at honorary doctorate holders who "demand" being called "Doctor"...not the DMin.
Comparing a DMin to a PhD is like comparing cars and boats. They are two very different degrees intended to produce very different outcomes. A PhD is by design an academic research degree designed for those who have an interest in conducting original research to add to the vast realm of knowledge, hence the term "philosophy". All programs aren't created equal, but usually, a PhD candidate will address a “theoretical problem” by asking and answering research questions via the research process as it relates to whatever they are hypothesizing. On the other hand, the DMin is by design an applied professional doctorate designed to enhance one's knowledge and practice of ministry. All programs are not created equal, but DMin candidates generally conduct action-based field research, oftentimes referring to and employing theories conceptualized by PhD holders for the express purpose of solving an actual “real-life problem” in their ministry context. DMin degrees are for those who are solution-focused while engaged in boots-on-ground ministry, whether it be a traditional church or parachurch ministry context. Not to mention the fact that PhD holders oftentimes who teach the DMin courses. So even with a PhD, they can't design a challenging enough curriculum to make the DMin worthy...dude, stop it. The Christian witness suffers because we debate and argue menial matters such as these that are completely unrelated to the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
In closing, a DMin is very much a legitimate doctorate that is not only distinct from the PhD but has a very different purpose and intended outcome from the PhD. The two degrees are quite literally not comparable to one another. It is not a matter of which one is better per se, but which one is better for each individual person as it relates to the goals they wish to achieve.
Thanks for the spirited feedback! :) We obviously disagree but that's ok. Let me press you in two ways. First, if they are not comparable why must the DMin be called a doctorate? Why not call it a masters? By the nature of your comment, you are admitting that they *are* comparable in some respects. Second, it is certainly fair to say that since you can graduate with a DMin and your project be quite literally titled "Equipping Fantasy Football League Participants at XXXXX church..." (just saw this one last week!) I think my case can rest that it is not a legitimate doctorate degree. That isn't the same as saying that it is supposed to accomplish the same exact purpose or that it isn't useful in any sense (which are both claims I explicitly reject in this video.). Cheers! ~ Jordan
A D.Min is a doctor degree. It requires research for practical practice in ministry. Secondly, Dr, Doctor is a Latin word that means teacher or instructor.
D.Min is a real degree.
Facts.
What I think the DMin uniquely offers is an opportunity to write and defend an 80,000 word dissertation focused on theological integration that is peer reviewed by 2 advisors who are experts. That being said, there are only a handful of DMin programs that I think take the dissertation seriously (to be fair, i haven't spent a ton of time looking into it, haha).
It is certainly less work than an American PhD, but I'm not sure how different a 3 year DMin at an institution that values the degree is from a 3 year PhD program in the UK in practical/applied theology.
I think of Edinburgh, where virtually all American MDivs go for their PhD. No strict language requirements (I could be wrong but almost none of the programs I found in the UK have strict requirements), requiring just a masters degree (not all UK programs even require that) and thesis to apply. Like all British PhDs, you jump straight into dissertation writing. In that sense, the 4 DMin seminars are 4 more than what you get in the UK.
Personally, I think it would do more seminaries well to offer a PhD in Applied Theology, with heightened admission standards, as opposed to the DMin. But I also think we are letting the slew of folks that go to the UK for their PhD off easy if we're not throwing them in the mix, especially since "practical theology" is a discipline over there: which is the entire point of a DMin
(I don't have a DMin, by the way)
My hunch is that if you don't have a DMin or PhD, or haven't attempted to obtain one, you likely don't properly know the true distinctions. For example, peer review is said in many ways, and peer reviewers for DMin projects (I use that word intentionally because that is what it is self-described as--*not a dissertation*) know that the DMin is not a PhD and thus do not review it as such. It is reviewed as a project and not a research element. The DMin is *drastically* different than a PhD program in the UK. While there are not language requirements for the program as a whole you would not graduate without the languages in your specific research area. If studying Dutch theology, you would be reading the sources in Dutch, etc. Just because there is not required coursework does not mean there are not expected reading groups, etc. The UK model also assumes you have completed coursework in a prior research degree beyond the MDiv for admission. And certainly no DMin has a language requirement! ~ Jordan
@thelondonlyceum I get what you're saying, but I still think you're severely under-valuing the DMin for what it offers. It's not a degree in biblical exegesis or historical theology. It's a doctoral degree in applied theology focused on ministry practice.
Like I mentioned before, there are only a handful of programs that I think really excel at this. But the ones that do, really do. For instance, Duke Div, Mercer, and Baylor's Truett are just a few examples of schools that absolutely do use the term "dissertation" or "thesis" for the culminating project. And I know at Duke, publication is an expectation for DMin candidates.
Plus, the use of the term "project" itself is because the DMin requires field research in an actual setting. It's a fitting term (like in Ed, social work, or anthropology), not a concession of effortlessness. DMin candidates are making original contributions to their field and are doing real scholarship. Their field just isn't biblical or historical theology, as it would be for a PhD. Now, I would agree that you can expect a level of peer review in virtually all PhD programs that is consistent, compared to DMin advising varying by institution.
A ThM Prepares you for a PhD, not for theological integration in a ministry setting. So getting a ThM wouldn't achieve the practitioner's goals in the way a DMin would. If someone with a DMin is claiming to have the expertise of someone with a PhD in Religion or Theology in their respective area, then I agree - that is silly.
And maybe they don't need to be called Doctor. But I think you're drastically underselling the rigor and value of the degree. It is a real doctorate. It does produce experts. It's just not a PhD. And yeah, it is cringe when folks try to pretend it is. At least that's my opinion, anyway. God bless, sorry for the length of this lol.
PS. I didn't mean to say the DMin and British PhD were the same exact degree. Sorry for any confusion.
This person does not know what he is saying. A D.Min is a DR doctoral degree. If what he is saying correct then all the accredited D.Min schools along with PHD needs to lose their accreditation bc the same accreditation body ATS - Accreditation of Theological Schools, accredited schools that offer both, D.Mins and PHDs
Did you watch the video? Do you have a DMin? ~ Jordan
Good, nuanced, and balanced take.
Yet another “our club is better” opinion. Where is the humility? They are different doctorates aimed at different outcomes. Just as MD is practicing medicines vs PhD in the lab. The sheer fact that you repeatedly said “you don’t have the right to be called ‘doctor’ so many times, reveals the arrogance of your heart. You deserve to be called “doctor” because of your degree - your other brothers are not worthy because they are not in your club. I sincerely hope you are not a pastor teaching that all are of equal value in Christ. As a fellow brother in Christ, I offer this advice. You should take this down. You should learn some humility, and you should honor your other brothers in Christ instead of looking down on them.
This video is based on generalizations and and a toxic ego trip or genuine advice based on research, not just some article?
Then you end the video mentioning SIN for for someone wanting to have the title of Dr. Then you insult peoples efforts in what ever degree they feel like working towards? Then You have the audacity to say that they need to check their heart? Are you serious?
My unsolicited advice to you would be that before you post videos like this to make people lose minutes of their life you should do some internal work first. Pointing fingers on things that you're not even informed of yourself is not healthy.
I have a feeling that you know better, So i'm asking you to do better.
Some of us actually wanted some advice.
Ha! The most closed-minded video about a D.Min. Ridiculous.
Let me know what areas you think I'm wrong on and I'm happy to correct. I can be wrong! :) ~ Jordan
Yes...very wrong.