The greatest upset here is that Hermes is showing that money can not buy everything. The European classist idea is clashing with the American capitalistic attitude that money can buy EVERYTHING.
Under United States anti trust laws it is illegal to require tie-in sales. The documents are drawn up by the law firm not the plaintiff’s so the spelling errors are on the paralegal or an associate of the law firm. I also think it is awful that Sales Associates do not get a commission on birkin and Kelly sales. They work an hourly salary with hopes of larger commissions and have to deal with the customers upset they are not offered a bag.
Two big buckets of people the ones who just can afford it and don't care and the ones who can't afford it but want the external validation. And by afford I don't mean the bag I mean the game. People want the external validation of the rich but are not in that tax bracket. It's not fair but it's what it is and they're discriminating who they want to carry them. If we all had more self respect we'd just tell them to f off and like other brands they would be trying to win clients over and not the way around
I'm with you. Analogy: It's kind of like watching a young girl who wants to be accepted by a certain group in high school, and they give her a set of humiliating tasks she has to accomplish before they tell her she's ''in'' (or not). I'll never love a handbag (or anything else) enough to sacrifice my self-respect to attain it.
Yes. People are irrational and act idiotic. Nobody is forcing these people to buy these bags. Birkin bags are not primary necessity; you can off course buy other bags if you can't get a birkin bag. You can love birkin bag but you can't pretend like there is no other bag out there. LOL
I believe that Hermes should be forced to specify what it takes for each customer to be offered a bag. The true price and timeline. It should be transparent and clear to avoid what can be illegal discrimination.
This is the problem, Herms doesn’t want you to just buy from Them “the Bag” because you want to show off they have great other products “not unwanted 💩” like you call it. And crazy amount of other products, that for sure you will find something to like. But if you wanna just show off the bag then of course you need to pay a price. I collect Hermes since years ,I never had a problem.but good luck to just get “the bag” and get angry that you think a bussines that is owed by family with tradition is selling 💩
@@andypostica The problem is it doesn’t matter what Hermes “wants” tied purchases are illegal in California. Companies shouldn’t just get to openly break the law because they “want” to.
I fully agree with the lawsuit. Whoever you are, if you have the money to buy a bag, you should be able to buy a bag, and nothing else should be tied to that it is classism and elitism. I admire the bags from afar I find that practice force people to buy objects they don’t want is wrong.
i agree , before Karl Lagerfeld passed away , you can get any size Chanel classics in any color . after he passed , the whole Hermès selling tactic came into the world of Chanel , starting with the classic being “sold out” and now they don’t even hold the bags behind those mirrors where the SA sits you . they tell other customers they must be on a waiting list , but they pick and choose
@@trispenis5199 It's frustrating, but the selling tactic is genius, so why on Earth would they change it? The Birkin, Kelly and Constance would not be nearly as coveted or popular (they are not user-friendly bags) if anyone could just walk in and get one. This lawsuit is stupid. It's just a bag. While I would love to have one (or more) in my collection, I can live a happy and fullfilled life without one.
@@totesgeneI feel the same I have no desire for one but for those that do and have the funds for the bag but not a bunch of things they don’t need should be able to buy one. Channel doesn’t have this model and their status bags still sell well and high . They simply raise the price which is more fair than making people buy things they do not want or need.
@@lisatakeitorleaveit but no one is making people buy anything. I’m sorry but if someone buys heaps of stuff they don’t want or need just for a chance at one of these bags then they are stupid.
@@totesgene you’re missing the point. Of course no one is forcing anyone to buy anything, however if someone wants to buy a bag they should not be required to buy other things they neither want or need in order to be considered to be able to purchase the bag. We are not talking about people who Don’t want a bag- we are talking about people who want the bag, but feel hoodwinked into spending additional money for the opportunity to buy one.
I think the issue is, H can simply not sell the bag if they don’t want to. Instead of saying no, they give the illusion of access by spending tons of money on things folks may not want. I think that’s problematic. Particularly when coupled with the commission for CA/SAs. There are other ways to gain exclusivity. Limit boutiques, require a subscription of some type, only sell in France etc. Do I agree with the lawsuit? No. I’d move on. Do I think there’s something here? Yup. I do.
This is not a criminal complaint, so the standard of proof is much lower than that of a criminal trial. Neither Hermes nor any other business has the complete right to run their business any way they see fit - all businesses must follow the laws of the jurisdiction in which they operate. In California, the alleged business practices, as stated in the complaint, allege tying. Motions to dismiss will be filed, Hermes will fight tooth and nail to prevent this from becoming a cla$$ action, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of very angry and offended people are currently contacting the law firm to join the class. Caleb, you said many companies sell shoes and housewares, etc. Exactly, and that is, allegedly, one of the problems. It is money that the consumer could have spent AT ANOTHER BUSINESS, but allegedly felt coerced to spend it at Hermes when all they wanted was a handbag. This type of alleged business practice is illegal under California law. It is also common practice to amend complaints. Imagine if a group of people tell the law firm that their friends got a handbag, but they didn't get one because of their race, religion and sex. I don't think this will ever go to trial. Most companies would want to settle because of the high cost of litigation and the fact that, during discovery, they would be asked to produce a lot of information related to business practices, true cost of production of goods, etc., that they would prefer not become public.
Girl, being denied a bag because you believe that their policy says XYZ, isn’t the same as being denied because of race, religion, and sex. You can rectify one by spending more (allegedly), but you can’t change your race or sexuality. And you shouldn’t be required to change your religion. This is not the Spanish Inquisition. Jeez.
Tied purchases are illegal in California, in not really sure how anyone can argue otherwise. The fact the SAs don’t earn commission on the Birkin alone says a lot. If the issue is scarcity and limited quality, the legal thing to do is to offer the bags on a first come first serve basis. Having nice products isn’t an excuse to break the law.
When money is earned in an illegal way it comes back to bite. I believe in the reap as you sow. I wont be surprised that the SAs will be paid to take the blame.
@@yoonchongong8914 because they make a point to not explicitly say that it’s linked, however if they investigate and confirm that the purchases are in fact linked and that their is a spend requirement to qualify for a bag they will be in trouble. If they are found to be exploiting a loophole by not confirming the notion of linked purchases but heavily suggesting it, it’s likely they will be required to make changes. *edit- not sure why you changed the entirety of your comment after I replied to it…
@@HauteGemsDallas Yes why has this like this for so long? I am glad this has come out. Hermes earns millions through unethical activity.This good relationship with SA cant understand it. I love a good clean elegant design on a bag but not to this extent of playing this game. In a way its people who created this state of affairs.
Hello Caleb! I commend you for reading in all 17 pages of a lawsuit. It’s an initial pleading so it will likely be amended. I haven’t read it so I don’t want to speak to the validity. I think the bigger issue is that this opens the floodgates for other plaintiffs to file lawsuits on similar or additional grounds which will differ by State. For example, I could foresee a discrimination lawsuit. Think about it how easy it would be to prove that employees Hermes, who are agents of the company, use subjective standards to determine which customers are deemed worthy of purchasing a bag. Their best hope is that the case gets dismissed because I doubt they want to open discovery of their client profiles for analysis of spending patterns and amounts of because we already know the distribution of bags is not fair and equal.
I have never had a problem getting a Birkin or Kelly....I go in the Hermès Store in DC often. In fact, I had Hermès to refurbished a Kelly...they sent it to Paris and it took 1 year ...the purse came back looking brand NEW... I probably had $300K in vintage Birkins...40 and HAC Birkin 55....Pumps...Sandals...Perfume...Scarves... Agenda....etc.... The Hermès Sales Associates are WONDERFUL.....❤❤
I’ve always wondered about this! I thought, when a business had sufficient market share, it was illegal for them to tie products together and force people to purchase materials in order to get other materials. What might happen as a result of this lawsuit (and I’m really just hypothesizing!) is that Hermes chooses to go into a similar but legal model, which is to allow Birkin purchases only to premier or VIP customers and they announce that this status is achieved after spending a certain amount of money or purchasing from the store a number of times. Thank you for reporting on this! What an interesting topic!
Honestly I wish they would just make the bags like 2-3x price and not have to play the stupid game. It is ridiculous to buy things I don't like for a bag. It is very evident when I literally don't get an offer UNTIL I spend AT LEAST 1x the quota bag. And it's not even the bag I want, ugh.
Its weird, I didn't go through the lawsuit BUT I do support this to some extent hearing about it! I too shopped at one of the SF Bay Area locations (Not sure if the Plaintiffs are shoppers in SF or Palo Alto) which I could be wrong but have heard it is notoriously the toughest stores in the US to score a Quota Bag (San Fran and Palo Alto being the only two in Northern California - not counting SFO's airport store). Like you're spending 2:1, 3:1, 4:1+ for a bag. So do I think the lawsuit comes off very "First world problems"? yes! But as sick as this sounds, and while I know a bag shouldn't be an investment, I do think that a game is okay so long as Hermes comes forward with Rules and transparency, because if the bag was so easy to get, it does devalue what made the Birkin/Kelly a "investment" better than gold (or so it was said a few years ago). Unfortunately I do think there are some shady SA's out there who are willing to milk clients for as much comission as possibly before "vouching them to the director" for when a bag comes in. Now do we as the public know what that comission structure is? No. But we speculate fine jewelry, equestrian and some homeware has the good comissions/higher percent comission. But fair point too that if SA's don't get comission on the QBs, then Hermes should either change that OR have it not exceed a 1:1 spend ratio. But my hope is with this lawsuit it does shed light to how unfair the game can be. Cause I'm not gonna lie, I love Hermes and do like a few shoes and affordable RTW pieces but to keep buying and buying but to possibly not even get offered a bag - come on. With youtube, social media, bag forums, you do see people are getting offers so. Some go as far as sharing their spend ratio so it get's resentful seeing some people buy 5-10 Orans and get 2 QBs a year plus a special order. Here I am over here spending 2.5:1....shop for 2 years and lucky enough to get 1 quota bag, ya know? And I always would go to my local boutique with the utmost respect to the SAs and my SA but looking back, I do feel salty as I work very hard for my money and to feel I have to spend to get an offer? It is heart breaking. Before I end, I don't want others to come for me in the comments, I know people will argue "Thats dumb of them or myself to keep spending for a bag"...Some of us don't neccearily want a preloved bag either - personally I worry about super fakes making it past authentication...but I just would hope we as humans can be nice, understand where one another are coming from, hope our SAs would just be more transparent, What are the rules of this game?, but also vouch for us when the time is right when a bag comes in as I know u cant rush production on these bags either. I am so sick of some folks also saying "Everyone's journey is different, don't compare". Let's just stop with that too btw. Okay, end rant *steps off soap box*
I agree. Even if this lawsuit is the epitome of first world problems, the result of this lawsuit can set a valuable precedent for future cases that do not have the same class/socioeconomic dynamics.
I was offered a Birkin (I declined, decided to wait for a color/size I wanted) after only buying a scarf, and I got the Birkin I do have, from Paris with no leather appointment, after buying a jacket and literally just asking. I understand I am very lucky, but I am a client from northern California where I believe these people are from, my SA has literally told me not to buy things, because "I don't need it". I was told one quota per year, and I read somewhere one of the plaintiffs was trying to buy a second Birkin . I think I bought only one thing that was something that I didn't want or wouldn't use once, (I bought a mug). It's almost like my SA almost doesn't want me to pre spend. I know there is lots of talk about the "game" and if you have the money you should be able to buy it. And while there are parts I agree with in those arguments, the demand for the bags is still to high, for the people making them. And I mean look at Chanel and the stark decline in quality when trying to impose their own "games". I understand the frustration these clients have, but also I question them as clients. my store wants to help the clients. (I don't know about the other location here). maybe the SAs just didn't like them? because I mean stores do have the right to refuse service. idk its a lot. sorry for my rambling.
Yeah and you can't just not sell because you don't like someone. That's discrimination. Yes they reserve the right to deny service within reason, like if someone is disrespectful but literally not liking you. that's not legal
@@dragamboazulinqiacupuntura122 Sorry I didn't mean to imply the sales Team was just willy nilly not liking people. in my mind I was thinking that the customers could have done things to make them not want to be helped, if they mean, rude, racist or any of another number of things, which can make someone not like them, a company can refuse to serve them. I wasn't trying to imply that on a whim the sales associate doesn't like them. sorry if I didn't phrase that right. I definitely agree with some of the criticisms of the "game" I just haven't experienced them myself, and people have to remember you CAN just go buy a Birkin if you want one so badly, Caleb did. it was late at night when I wrote that and I rambled.... and im rambling now. lol
The fact that even in this example, the fact that you were still encouraged to buy a mug you absolutely didn’t want in order to have the chance to get something you do actually want is why they are being sued because that business practice is literally illegal in CA.
@saralikesclothes Thank you for sharing your story and making such great points. It lays credence to a theory of mine: That the upsets over Hermes is more about people with money who are used to thinking that money can buy them anything they want, realising that Hermes just told them "NO".
So here’s a question, if quota bags were available for anyone to purchase, would the allure to have one still exist? I would imagine many of those who want one, want it for the exclusivity. 🤷🏽♀️
It’s not a tantrum about not getting the bag. It’s about whether the “game” is right and legal. Some want the Hermes game because they feel it protects their investment. But I just feel as though it’s morally wrong and shady. Hope more join the lawsuit and they win to help fix the deceitful system.
I understand the business model, but for me it’s about transparency. Not standardizing the prespend and keeping it mysterious is unethical and deceptive imo. I have no objection to the prespend model it’s-self, we can spend where we choose, it’s the secrecy and inconsistency of the prespend I object to. No problem playing a good game, but I need to know the rules before we begin!! But will that translate into successful litigation, we will see……
There are no tying purchases at Hermes that I can see so far from the stories told. Hermes should just leave California, or the USA. I think some overestimate the purchasing power of the US economy. This is the 21st century. Things have shifted far away from where things were in the 20th. Thanks for a great video Caleb.
Hello Caleb, I just stumbled across your channel, I love your content. 😍 With regards to the case at hand, I have a couple of thoughts. First of all, the complaint is interesting. I have a legal background, but I must admit that I'm not that familiar with these types of issues. I will say, though, that this seems like an unfair complaint against Hermes, as typically you cannot force a retailer to sell to a buyer. Anything advertised or put out as available for purchase is just considered a legal "offer." This offer holds no guarantees of completing the sale. However, I think it gets muddy where Hermes representatives are telling people on the sly that they must pre-purchase in order to be considered. They are calling it "tying" her but it also seems like a bait and switch where you make all of these other purchases, yet still may have nothing to show. Likewise the fact that buyers are making all these other purchases heavily implies that there is more than just an offer from Hermes. I don't believe that a court finds that it rises to the level of an actual sale contract between 2 parties, but you never know. If the court finds that there is enough to for the case, it will be fascinating to see how Hermes responds. Hermes and its practices would be subject to discovery where they have to disclose information to the court and plaintiffs. I am only a casual observer of Hermes, but even I know they don't want this. Hermes may be asked to disclose the purchase history of every customer who was allowed to purchase a Birkin, for example. Ultimately, the intent of the plaintiffs may be that they want to expose Hermes and its sales practices. The plaintiffs may not even care if they win. This could ultimately change how Hermes practices in the future. Second, it's obvious that Hermes doesn't employ this strategy everywhere, like France for example. This leads me to question whether this practice is illegal in some countries, but not in others. Some countries have much stronger consumer protections. And I know that some says that Hermes and other sellers should have the right to do this, but just consider how frustrating junk fees are on you cell phone bill, tickets, etc. I am obviously speculating, but perhaps people shouldn't jump to defend Hermes out of the gate. In the end, I think this complaint is aimed at forcing discovery and disclosure by Hermes. It will be fascinating watching this proceed. Thanks for the great video, Caleb.
Honestly, this law suit is just plain stupid. IT'S JUST A BAG! Would I love a Birkin or Kelly? Absolutely. Can I live a happy life without one? Yes. No one is twisting anyone's arm to spend tens of thousands on stuff one doesn't need at Hermes just to be offered a bag. If one does it, and they can't afford it, then they are stupid.
@@yoonchongong8914 I am sorry, it is stupid to be that upset over a bag - A BAG! Of course, they are going to offer them to their loyal customers who spend money - that's business 101. How do you keep your revenue coming in and growing? Repeat customers. Recurring revenue.These aren't mass produced bags so there aren't enough to go around. It's that simple. No one is making anyone spend tens of thousands to get offered a bag. Anyone who spends money, and that much money, on things they don't want or need in hopes of getting a bag is dumb.
I was hoping you'd do a video on this and you did not disappoint. I think Hermes' practices are unethical but they're also working very well for the company in terms of their financials so they have every incentive to keep going. The idea behind the lawsuit is interesting and I'm sure a lot of people, myself included, can't wait to see the result.
luxury is about creating desires and creating exclusivity. Hermes is the master of both. The accusation here on the contrary just shows how strong the brand is. Consistent support to the brand does not mean tens of thousands of spending in one go, but it means over time a genuine interest in all categories of the Maison and smart purchases.... given the demand for the BKC is far beyond the supply, Hermes has the bargaining power to make the access to BKC competitive among clients... of course, if you do not have the purchase power, kindly stay away rather than sue the company. From the company perspective, they need to train their sales better to be more tactful esp in the western part of the world where some people can easily get pissed off for not getting the grapes, their American sales in general is lacking sophistication compared with those in Europe. In China, on the contrary sales will tell you exactly what you need to buy to get qualified and it is a well accepted practice ....
This is a really frivolous lawsuit. It’s a waste of the court system’s time. By the time this lawsuit is over the people will have made the “prespend” to get their Birkin 3 times over (and will not likely wind up with a bag for your expense). Only those that don’t have money to purchase these bags worry about this. You don’t “have” to buy the bag if you don’t like the way Hermes does business.
Rolex, Patek, Audemars, Ferrari... am I forgetting anybody else? 🤔 They will all have to change their business model and be more transparent in their practices. They all risk very bad reputational damage due to the social media machine throwing sh*t at them for being manipulative.
I believe there are numerous options for purchasing a Birkin bag, as the pre-loved market offers a plethora of exquisite pieces suitable for all Hermes enthusiasts. While availability may be limited in stores, it adds excitement to the shopping experience, especially when hoping to secure a quota bag. Brands aren't obligated to cater to consumers' demands; if you desire a bag, simply make the purchase. With plenty of avenues to acquire Hermes products, the options are abundant. Great segment!
They were probably trying to avoid what happened to LV and Gucci. These brands used to be the height of luxury but before we need it, every man and his dog had a LV bag or Gucci bag and sorry to say but most of them were trashy dressed young women. These brands lost their charm after that.
I would not even consider doing a pre-spend, however much i wanted it. I would go to a second hand boutique. I agree with the principle of the law suit, though on the other hand, it is only a bag. It is not as if we are being denied access to green vegetables and fresh water. Thank you for the video!
What a curve ball this lawsuit is. On one had I think it is genius of Hermes to make people buy from other categories. But it does in a way hurt the consumer. Will have to see what comes of it!
"The waitlist system" !!!!!! Oh my god babe I totally forgot about that! we have been so submerged in the pre-send now. That system was so epic as well to get on it a wait list, and I actually feel like it was even more exciting that way!!... Actually now I think about it that was where the whole "I got the call" came from right.???
The plaintiffs’ lawyers have actually defined the class to include the Birkin and the Kelly, and have asked the court for leave to amend to add other bags to the claim going forward if they gather evidence that Hermes did the illegal tying with other bags as well. It’s in sections 35 and 37 of “Class Action Allegations.”
I feel like it would have been easier to file a discrimination suit. Like they select only specific people to give quota bags to and make some people spend more than others as they choose. Basically it’s an unfair business practice.
You don’t know about the law that this video is about. One of the lawyers for the people suing said this when describing “tying.” “Imagine you go into McDonald’s to buy an ice cream and they say, sorry, you have to buy dinner first.” That is illegal and also you’re discriminating against people who can’t afford to drop thousands and thousands first before they can get a Birkin. So you aren’t affecting other brands, you’re affecting the customers who can’t afford to spend thousands and thousands before getting access to a Birkin. The only people who are happy with this Hermes rule are very ultra rich because they can afford to spends thousands and thousands to get access to a Birkin. Rolex, AP and Patek Philippe also play these games. It’s not fair to the consumer because that’s who is affected.
I disagree about the investment part. Most handbags are not good investments, including Birkin. The Hermes and second hand market is (in my opinion) manipulating the market. If you go on to the second hand websites, there are pages and pages of Birkin bags to buy at a markup. This makes the whole scarcity claim a tad disingenuous. That all being said, back to the investment part. Investments always carry risks. Meaning your investment can go up or your investment can go down. There is no guarantee with investments. As, for this lawsuit, if they can convince a judge to agree Hermes is violating antitrust law, specifically the Sherman Act, the Plaintiff's may very well have success.
I do think this lawsuit is frivolous. If you don't think the H game is fair or worth it, then don't buy from Hermes. There are many brands out there to choose from. And if you must have Hermes there are quite a few other sites/retailers who have them. However, Hermes probably should be more upfront about what it takes to get a quota bag. It would make them look better, and wouldn't leave them open to claims of discrimination. Because what parameters does an SA use to determine who gets a bag? Dayle from Dayle's Addiction got her Birkin because the SA liked her. Meredith got one because shes a VIP client and was with Dayle. How does that work? 🤔
You brought up so many great points, Ronnie! I do wish transparency played a part in process. Knowing how much one has to spend in order to get chosen to purchase their dream bag- and what if their dream bag is a less desirable bag vs. the mini Kelly or Kelly 28? And that's interesting that Dayle got hers by trying to be likeable and Meredith had to be a VIP. I'm curious how that played out!
@CalebSnell Transparency is always a good thing! But I think Hermès will just find other ways to play "the game." They will tighten up and streamline the process. And make sure those processes are the same in the US and Europe. They don't have the stock to meet demand if they let any and everyone buy. So there has to be a system in place. And unfortunately it will be unfair.
I often wonder, if they made Birkins easily available to any consumer, do you think the hype would die down? 🤔 I personally want a Kelly but I’m not into the spending game to acquire one or overpay on a resell site. At the end of the day, Hermes has been doing this forever and people who play the game score and in limited cases, some just get lucky with no spend or little spend. But those are far and few in between
I do feel badly for those that think it’s an actual contract even if it is unspoken that if they spend then they’ll get…Because we all know the stories of the many that this unspoken contract was NEVER filled. Some just are never going to get a bag directly from H. And there’s a variety of reasons but the cruelest is because their Sales Associate just doesn’t like them. Horrible
This is by far the most American and the most entitled lawsuit I have ever heard of so far. An epic tantrum by people who have too much time, too much money, and very little self restraint.
@@HauteGemsDallas I get it. We disagree on several points. But that is OK. Yes? It is my opinion that: (1) The Hermes sea bass is the Hermes sea bass. People can get sea bass somewhere else, but they won’t be Hermes’ (2) The “tying” is not “tying”. (There was never a guarantee). I am not a fan of Hermes’ game. In fact I despise it. But that shouldn’t prevent me from being logical and forming an opinion. The trouble with this debate is that it is emotionally charged. Which is a clue in itself about what all this is really about.
@@ladyofwinterfel8143 Seeking monetary settlement to make the bad publicity go away? Quite possibly. Even a first year law student can see that this is a frivolous lawsuit. What could possibly be the end results hoped? Money, is not too far off a guess.
I don't think it's entitlement to sue. Specially because probably whoever can afford it is not the one benfitting from the lawsuit. I think it's discrimination to vet your clients and link sell. Either everyone can buy if they have the money or you're discriminating and thats illegal.
I just think this is so interesting. I do see this as tying..similar to what was said below. They do not allow you to spend your money on shoes, scarfs, etc on the brands you want to because you *have* to buy them from Hermes to get your bag. Also, it then makes Hermes appear more popular than they should be, because people have to spend the money on Hermes and thus more is bought from them.
To be fair, I'm not sure what it's like in the US but in the UK, anyone with £10k spare can go and buy a Birkin. Our luxury preloved sites are saturated with Birkins and Kellys! I don't like Hermes tactic of having to be offered a bag, its just gross for me but I am also not sure that this lawsuit will stand up in court either! An interesting one to watch!
It’s gotten out of hand for sure but I do think if anyone and everyone could get a birkin or kelly, not many of us would care to get one and as mentioned, the investment value would significantly drop. It IS special that not many are offered but I do think again, it’s gotten out of hand. Also, it is kind of bullshit that online spending doesn’t count. The whole idea is if you buy from Hermes in other categories you must love the brand and appreciate the brand. When I first purchased from Hermes, I didn’t even care about the bags - I fell in love with the silks and ties for my husband etc. I spent over 6K online once, , dumb yes now in retrospect but it does prove I genuinely loved products from the brand. If they are going to do this prespend system, then online and in store purchases should count - We all don’t have a store near us. Also, the SA’s hold a lot of power, perhaps more than they should? I also think it should be clear as to what you need to spend to get this bag or that bag. Maybe the exotics can be a mystery for their VIP. Not sure how that should work. I know for me the perfect bag would be the mini Kelly, well I’ve been told by my SA she is working on getting me one but they only get a few in a year. I would like to know, hey spend this, and my manager will let you get a mini Kelly. Idk. It’s complicated.
I can’t believe there’s an attorney out there that actually thought this was worth taking a shot at. Just move on to another fashion house. Why even waste time in fighting over a bag that’s hard to get?!
@@timekanewsome657 if someone has the money for one, why refuse selling them something especially if you’re not gaining commission off that sale? instead, you have to purchase several other things from Hermes before even being considered OR you pay WAY ABOVE store value for an older version
My aunt gave me her 1990's Hermes Brikin. I don't use it. It looks like a men's briefcase - bulky and ugly. I don't get why some people go wild over it. It's just a bag.
I dont understand..I ordered Oran sandals because I wanted them. If someone would have said that I need to buy 2 ceramic bowls or something in order to purchase these sandals I would think this is not right..I am new to Hermes since I usually buy LV but for me its like you want something so you go check out the availability. If its there you buy if its not there you dont buy.. what if I have saved up a long time to buy just that handbag and I am dreaming about that bag ever since..there is no extra money left to buy anything else than that.. so I dont get that bag because I am not worthy? Not rich enough? I dont like that mentality too much I have to say..but then I live in Europe and on the website a lot of items are available just to purchase them. Not the Birkins unfortunately but a lot of other items are.. lets see if they might change their mentality…probably not..
This is a frivolous lawsuit. Hermes has a right to run their business the way they want whether you like it or not. I do not believe any court should have the right to intervene in a company's legal business practices and force the company, here Hermes, to conduct their business a certain way unless public safety is at risk. There are plenty of bags on the resale market. Hermes has the right to refuse to sell their birkins, kellys, constances- whatever- to anyone.
Agree!! This is a ‘law’suit and don’t think Hermès has broken any laws in the way they conduct their business. It could be deemed as unfair but not illegal.
: : I saw this in my news notifications & immediately thought “what’s Caleb going to say about this.” I can see both sides. Yes they don’t have to produce and then sell a product just because a consumer demands it, but to train their employees to suggest to customers that if they buy all these other things they would have an advantage over someone else in accessing the coveted product and then not guarantee it to be true seems like an unethical shady practice. But then again I wouldn’t buy into the “journey” that way personally. I would never want someone else to tell me what I should or shouldn’t buy or need to buy. No thank you. I can decide for myself and if that’s how you have to get the coveted item that item no longer has value in my eyes. (Just my humble opinion.) That said, I can appreciate people who actually like playing that game even if I don’t necessarily understand it. Safe space. Thanks for the great content as always. : :
Thank you, Tigerlilly! I agree, I can see both sides 100. For me, I know that I would never want to play the game, so I just went straight to the preowned route. I was able to get what I wanted, and save a lot of money. I think that also takes some of the pressure off when I pop into H, I can buy or not buy whatever I want- I already have the bag! It's going to be interesting to see how this all plays out!
It's not about building a relationship with SA it's about how you can make the SA get commissions as their satisfaction for living like a restaurant service charge.
This lawsuit won’t go far! There is nothing illegal… Hermes just want some specific rich people to be seen with a Birkin. Do i like this approach? Not at all… but no one force me to buy some Hermes stuff… so if anyone want to play such game, good for them! However, i’ll pass! If i buy something, i want in the end to be in total control of my decision… not the brand! I respect scarcity and limited edition, but i don’t have time for game… and moreover, game without clear rules!
@@oldpalmcity But it’s not officially tying purchase… and of course Hermes will be able to demonstrate this easily by showing that some customers are able to buy the bag right away (extremely rare but that as already happened in the past) and that other customers are on a waiting list! Hermes is clearly playing a game but they know how to blur the line here! And trust me they will give many examples to show that some customers "could purchase a Birkin" but they choose the wrong leather or color on their wish list… nobody will win anything with this case except Hermes to get free publicity! 🤷🏻♂️
I don’t believe in scarcity. It’s just exclusivity and human games. I don’t even play Mario Party so I will not play any games! Either they want my money, or I’m not gonna force my money down their throat.
Hi 👋 Caleb I always admire your hard work with research on these type of l subjects it’s definitely a divisive topic to broach and I applaud you for that. Your video is well done and informative I’m interested in following the story as one of the commentators said Class action lawsuits start off as seemingly frivolous at first but have the right to amend their claims etc. Down the road. I am curious how Hermes will broach this lawsuit. I find this all very fascinating. Thanks for sharing.👛🛍️🚢🙏🦆
Thank you so much, Dee Dee! I'm curious to see how this whole thing plays out. Part of me thinks H will settle outside of court, because they won't want their financials and process to be known, so they'll do what they can to avoid court.
All I can say is if you want a quota bag you need to develop a relationship with an SA. You also need to maintain the relationship. Make sure it’s an SA you vibe with, and eventually you’ll get what you want. I think the lawsuit is silly.
@@danween I’ve not had issues getting what I want because I have a long-standing relationship with my SA. He always works to get me what I’ve asked for, so no, it’s not silly. People who want to sue for things like this is silly, if they spent a bunch of $ to try to get something that’s on them, not Hermes.
I'll just carry on with other handbags like my two Margaux 15s I just purchased. Too much going on in life to make a brand such a big worrisome part of it.
Lol instead of spending with H, they instead bring lawsuits for ‘their’ special Berkin. I side with Hermes. Exclusivity is luxury - they are meant to be scarce
The amount of money wasted just to get a handbag. 😂 spend 20k on garbage before you’re even offered a Birken that you probably don’t even truly want but you accept bc???? This concept is wild! What’s worse is that people fall for this scam. 😂😂😂
LOL, Hermès is under no obligation to sell you a damned thing! American entitlement is clashing with French pretentiousness. I'm with the French on this.
If you really want the bag just buy it on a secondary resell market. Don’t waste money on a lawsuit.. FYI I don’t happen to think this bag is a great looking bag, not sure what all the fuss is about.
Caleb, I think this is an “interesting” lawsuit. However, I think the concept of a pre-spend is ludicrous! I also think that only owners of a Birkin or Kelly would support Hermes in this and thus, want to continue with the pre-spend to ensure scarcity and demand. This is elitism at its core, which I think is concerning. To have 10k to spend on a frivolous thing is a privilege, especially when ppl in this country and others are faced with “real issues”. The pre-spend is just another layer to make a profit on those yearning to be considered among the elite. Ppl who have $10k to spend on their “wants” should be able to buy whatever they want without buying a hideous pair of sandals.
I think that I wouldn't spend that much money on a bag .However I do like the look and I'm not going to judge people if they want to get it. To me this is not ok what the company is doing to costumers making them spend the money and maybe never get the bag . That's shady. They sending a message :" we are "high society" better then everyone else and you don't belong in our club". I don't like that what so ever . If you have the money you should be able to buy this bag. Maybe a wait list but defiantly you get the bag. They saying "I'm better then you "becaouse you can't get my bag. And the quality of there products it's very good however they probably not spending a lot of money to make it but they charge a ton. No I wouldn't jump through hoops at all. I watched youtubers who went to the store and they where treated like garbage so costumer service is horrible . What is even the point of this bag ? To show of ? Show everybody you better then them ? I don't get it. Someone please explain. I think hermes is overhyped brand by social media. Snobs.
Yeah I’ll just find a high quality replica before I play some childish game with some vapid snobby store clerk. I like the style of the bag and the look- could care a less about the Hermes part.
Silly women with too much money & working class trying to buy class! 😅 go on line resale " No shortage " go any Asian resale store tons of Hermes bags "no shorthage". 😊
I think you’re being short sighted and only thinking of the Berkin and Hermes and are not thinking of the implications. Other brands, like Van Cleef & Arpels, are trying to copy Hermes’s lead. If something is not done to the leader of this practice, then the followers will all have a hay day. Do you really want this same practice to pop up everywhere? Oh, and it will pop up at other places. I think I’m turned off to your videos now that you’ve stated you position for the practice.
I think the problem with the Hermes game is that there aren't defined rules to getting a quota bag. You either get lucky in Paris or luck out with a nice SA. Hermes needs to give the public concrete rules and conditions to obtaining a quota bag. And it should be stated on their website. I can see why people feel discriminated against.
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What are your thoughts on the lawsuit? I’m curious to see how this affects things in the future.
The greatest upset here is that Hermes is showing that money can not buy everything. The European classist idea is clashing with the American capitalistic attitude that money can buy EVERYTHING.
Under United States anti trust laws it is illegal to require tie-in sales. The documents are drawn up by the law firm not the plaintiff’s so the spelling errors are on the paralegal or an associate of the law firm. I also think it is awful that Sales Associates do not get a commission on birkin and Kelly sales. They work an hourly salary with hopes of larger commissions and have to deal with the customers upset they are not offered a bag.
@@jillleonard3212 Tie in sales require an agreement to tie one sale with another which Hermes never provide.
@@jillleonard3212 It can be argued that those are not “tie-in” sales.
I'm intrigued and will be watching with interest.
I am geniunely amazed that people jump through all these hoops in order to buy a bag.
Two big buckets of people the ones who just can afford it and don't care and the ones who can't afford it but want the external validation. And by afford I don't mean the bag I mean the game. People want the external validation of the rich but are not in that tax bracket. It's not fair but it's what it is and they're discriminating who they want to carry them. If we all had more self respect we'd just tell them to f off and like other brands they would be trying to win clients over and not the way around
I’ll pass!
I'm with you. Analogy: It's kind of like watching a young girl who wants to be accepted by a certain group in high school, and they give her a set of humiliating tasks she has to accomplish before they tell her she's ''in'' (or not). I'll never love a handbag (or anything else) enough to sacrifice my self-respect to attain it.
Yes. People are irrational and act idiotic. Nobody is forcing these people to buy these bags. Birkin bags are not primary necessity; you can off course buy other bags if you can't get a birkin bag. You can love birkin bag but you can't pretend like there is no other bag out there. LOL
I believe that Hermes should be forced to specify what it takes for each customer to be offered a bag. The true price and timeline. It should be transparent and clear to avoid what can be illegal discrimination.
Maybe like an “rewards” account with defined tiers and special perks for reaching each, but having it defined is key for transparency.
Or just make the price of the bag $35-40k and don’t force customers to buy unwanted 💩😜😂
This is the problem, Herms doesn’t want you to just buy from
Them “the Bag” because you want to show off they have great other products “not unwanted 💩” like you call it. And crazy amount of other products, that for sure you will find something to like.
But if you wanna just show off the bag then of course you need to pay a price. I collect Hermes since years ,I never had a problem.but good luck to just get “the bag” and get angry that you think a bussines that is owed by family with tradition is selling 💩
If they do so, nobody would buy the rest of the brand. They want to pretend to be a fashion house. Not a bag maker.
@@andypostica The problem is it doesn’t matter what Hermes “wants” tied purchases are illegal in California. Companies shouldn’t just get to openly break the law because they “want” to.
I fully agree with the lawsuit. Whoever you are, if you have the money to buy a bag, you should be able to buy a bag, and nothing else should be tied to that it is classism and elitism. I admire the bags from afar I find that practice force people to buy objects they don’t want is wrong.
i agree , before Karl Lagerfeld passed away , you can get any size Chanel classics in any color . after he passed , the whole Hermès selling tactic came into the world of Chanel , starting with the classic being “sold out” and now they don’t even hold the bags behind those mirrors where the SA sits you . they tell other customers they must be on a waiting list , but they pick and choose
@@trispenis5199 It's frustrating, but the selling tactic is genius, so why on Earth would they change it? The Birkin, Kelly and Constance would not be nearly as coveted or popular (they are not user-friendly bags) if anyone could just walk in and get one. This lawsuit is stupid. It's just a bag. While I would love to have one (or more) in my collection, I can live a happy and fullfilled life without one.
@@totesgeneI feel the same I have no desire for one but for those that do and have the funds for the bag but not a bunch of things they don’t need should be able to buy one. Channel doesn’t have this model and their status bags still sell well and high . They simply raise the price which is more fair than making people buy things they do not want or need.
@@lisatakeitorleaveit but no one is making people buy anything. I’m sorry but if someone buys heaps of stuff they don’t want or need just for a chance at one of these bags then they are stupid.
@@totesgene you’re missing the point. Of course no one is forcing anyone to buy anything, however if someone wants to buy a bag they should not be required to buy other things they neither want or need in order to be considered to be able to purchase the bag. We are not talking about people who Don’t want a bag- we are talking about people who want the bag, but feel hoodwinked into spending additional money for the opportunity to buy one.
I think the issue is, H can simply not sell the bag if they don’t want to. Instead of saying no, they give the illusion of access by spending tons of money on things folks may not want. I think that’s problematic. Particularly when coupled with the commission for CA/SAs. There are other ways to gain exclusivity. Limit boutiques, require a subscription of some type, only sell in France etc. Do I agree with the lawsuit? No. I’d move on. Do I think there’s something here? Yup. I do.
This is not a criminal complaint, so the standard of proof is much lower than that of a criminal trial. Neither Hermes nor any other business has the complete right to run their business any way they see fit - all businesses must follow the laws of the jurisdiction in which they operate. In California, the alleged business practices, as stated in the complaint, allege tying. Motions to dismiss will be filed, Hermes will fight tooth and nail to prevent this from becoming a cla$$ action, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of very angry and offended people are currently contacting the law firm to join the class.
Caleb, you said many companies sell shoes and housewares, etc. Exactly, and that is, allegedly, one of the problems. It is money that the consumer could have spent AT ANOTHER BUSINESS, but allegedly felt coerced to spend it at Hermes when all they wanted was a handbag. This type of alleged business practice is illegal under California law.
It is also common practice to amend complaints. Imagine if a group of people tell the law firm that their friends got a handbag, but they didn't get one because of their race, religion and sex.
I don't think this will ever go to trial. Most companies would want to settle because of the high cost of litigation and the fact that, during discovery, they would be asked to produce a lot of information related to business practices, true cost of production of goods, etc., that they would prefer not become public.
@Hummingbird: excellent points! I agree with all of this…
Girl, being denied a bag because you believe that their policy says XYZ, isn’t the same as being denied because of race, religion, and sex. You can rectify one by spending more (allegedly), but you can’t change your race or sexuality. And you shouldn’t be required to change your religion. This is not the Spanish Inquisition. Jeez.
You nailed it! They will settle, because they won't want to go to discovery and have to produce internal emails
I hope damn well it goes to public so we get all the information they don’t want us to see!
Tied purchases are illegal in California, in not really sure how anyone can argue otherwise. The fact the SAs don’t earn commission on the Birkin alone says a lot. If the issue is scarcity and limited quality, the legal thing to do is to offer the bags on a first come first serve basis. Having nice products isn’t an excuse to break the law.
💯!
When money is earned in an illegal way it comes back to bite. I believe in the reap as you sow. I wont be surprised that the SAs will be paid to take the blame.
@@yoonchongong8914 because they make a point to not explicitly say that it’s linked, however if they investigate and confirm that the purchases are in fact linked and that their is a spend requirement to qualify for a bag they will be in trouble. If they are found to be exploiting a loophole by not confirming the notion of linked purchases but heavily suggesting it, it’s likely they will be required to make changes.
*edit- not sure why you changed the entirety of your comment after I replied to it…
@@HauteGemsDallas Yes why has this like this for so long? I am glad this has come out. Hermes earns millions through unethical activity.This good relationship with SA cant understand it. I love a good clean elegant design on a bag but not to this extent of playing this game. In a way its people who created this state of affairs.
@HauteGemsDallas I predict they will settle, because they won't want to produce internal emails during discovery.
Hello Caleb! I commend you for reading in all 17 pages of a lawsuit. It’s an initial pleading so it will likely be amended. I haven’t read it so I don’t want to speak to the validity. I think the bigger issue is that this opens the floodgates for other plaintiffs to file lawsuits on similar or additional grounds which will differ by State. For example, I could foresee a discrimination lawsuit. Think about it how easy it would be to prove that employees Hermes, who are agents of the company, use subjective standards to determine which customers are deemed worthy of purchasing a bag. Their best hope is that the case gets dismissed because I doubt they want to open discovery of their client profiles for analysis of spending patterns and amounts of because we already know the distribution of bags is not fair and equal.
I have never had a problem getting a Birkin or Kelly....I go in the Hermès Store in DC often. In fact, I had Hermès to refurbished a Kelly...they sent it to Paris and it took 1 year ...the purse came back looking brand NEW...
I probably had $300K in vintage Birkins...40 and HAC Birkin 55....Pumps...Sandals...Perfume...Scarves... Agenda....etc....
The Hermès Sales Associates are WONDERFUL.....❤❤
I’ve always wondered about this! I thought, when a business had sufficient market share, it was illegal for them to tie products together and force people to purchase materials in order to get other materials.
What might happen as a result of this lawsuit (and I’m really just hypothesizing!) is that Hermes chooses to go into a similar but legal model, which is to allow Birkin purchases only to premier or VIP customers and they announce that this status is achieved after spending a certain amount of money or purchasing from the store a number of times. Thank you for reporting on this! What an interesting topic!
Honestly I wish they would just make the bags like 2-3x price and not have to play the stupid game. It is ridiculous to buy things I don't like for a bag. It is very evident when I literally don't get an offer UNTIL I spend AT LEAST 1x the quota bag. And it's not even the bag I want, ugh.
Rolex be watching this lawsuit 😳⌚️👀
Right?! I had them on my notes, and I forgot to mention them. It will be interesting, that's for sure!
Yup! Rolex does exactly the same!
Its weird, I didn't go through the lawsuit BUT I do support this to some extent hearing about it! I too shopped at one of the SF Bay Area locations (Not sure if the Plaintiffs are shoppers in SF or Palo Alto) which I could be wrong but have heard it is notoriously the toughest stores in the US to score a Quota Bag (San Fran and Palo Alto being the only two in Northern California - not counting SFO's airport store). Like you're spending 2:1, 3:1, 4:1+ for a bag.
So do I think the lawsuit comes off very "First world problems"? yes! But as sick as this sounds, and while I know a bag shouldn't be an investment, I do think that a game is okay so long as Hermes comes forward with Rules and transparency, because if the bag was so easy to get, it does devalue what made the Birkin/Kelly a "investment" better than gold (or so it was said a few years ago). Unfortunately I do think there are some shady SA's out there who are willing to milk clients for as much comission as possibly before "vouching them to the director" for when a bag comes in. Now do we as the public know what that comission structure is? No. But we speculate fine jewelry, equestrian and some homeware has the good comissions/higher percent comission. But fair point too that if SA's don't get comission on the QBs, then Hermes should either change that OR have it not exceed a 1:1 spend ratio.
But my hope is with this lawsuit it does shed light to how unfair the game can be. Cause I'm not gonna lie, I love Hermes and do like a few shoes and affordable RTW pieces but to keep buying and buying but to possibly not even get offered a bag - come on. With youtube, social media, bag forums, you do see people are getting offers so. Some go as far as sharing their spend ratio so it get's resentful seeing some people buy 5-10 Orans and get 2 QBs a year plus a special order. Here I am over here spending 2.5:1....shop for 2 years and lucky enough to get 1 quota bag, ya know? And I always would go to my local boutique with the utmost respect to the SAs and my SA but looking back, I do feel salty as I work very hard for my money and to feel I have to spend to get an offer? It is heart breaking.
Before I end, I don't want others to come for me in the comments, I know people will argue "Thats dumb of them or myself to keep spending for a bag"...Some of us don't neccearily want a preloved bag either - personally I worry about super fakes making it past authentication...but I just would hope we as humans can be nice, understand where one another are coming from, hope our SAs would just be more transparent, What are the rules of this game?, but also vouch for us when the time is right when a bag comes in as I know u cant rush production on these bags either. I am so sick of some folks also saying "Everyone's journey is different, don't compare". Let's just stop with that too btw. Okay, end rant *steps off soap box*
I agree. Even if this lawsuit is the epitome of first world problems, the result of this lawsuit can set a valuable precedent for future cases that do not have the same class/socioeconomic dynamics.
I was offered a Birkin (I declined, decided to wait for a color/size I wanted) after only buying a scarf, and I got the Birkin I do have, from Paris with no leather appointment, after buying a jacket and literally just asking. I understand I am very lucky, but I am a client from northern California where I believe these people are from, my SA has literally told me not to buy things, because "I don't need it". I was told one quota per year, and I read somewhere one of the plaintiffs was trying to buy a second Birkin . I think I bought only one thing that was something that I didn't want or wouldn't use once, (I bought a mug). It's almost like my SA almost doesn't want me to pre spend. I know there is lots of talk about the "game" and if you have the money you should be able to buy it. And while there are parts I agree with in those arguments, the demand for the bags is still to high, for the people making them. And I mean look at Chanel and the stark decline in quality when trying to impose their own "games". I understand the frustration these clients have, but also I question them as clients. my store wants to help the clients. (I don't know about the other location here). maybe the SAs just didn't like them? because I mean stores do have the right to refuse service. idk its a lot. sorry for my rambling.
Your experience sounds unusual in the context of the Hermes game, it may be unique to your store.
Yeah and you can't just not sell because you don't like someone. That's discrimination. Yes they reserve the right to deny service within reason, like if someone is disrespectful but literally not liking you. that's not legal
@@dragamboazulinqiacupuntura122 Sorry I didn't mean to imply the sales Team was just willy nilly not liking people. in my mind I was thinking that the customers could have done things to make them not want to be helped, if they mean, rude, racist or any of another number of things, which can make someone not like them, a company can refuse to serve them. I wasn't trying to imply that on a whim the sales associate doesn't like them. sorry if I didn't phrase that right. I definitely agree with some of the criticisms of the "game" I just haven't experienced them myself, and people have to remember you CAN just go buy a Birkin if you want one so badly, Caleb did. it was late at night when I wrote that and I rambled.... and im rambling now. lol
The fact that even in this example, the fact that you were still encouraged to buy a mug you absolutely didn’t want in order to have the chance to get something you do actually want is why they are being sued because that business practice is literally illegal in CA.
@saralikesclothes Thank you for sharing your story and making such great points. It lays credence to a theory of mine: That the upsets over Hermes is more about people with money who are used to thinking that money can buy them anything they want, realising that Hermes just told them "NO".
So here’s a question, if quota bags were available for anyone to purchase, would the allure to have one still exist? I would imagine many of those who want one, want it for the exclusivity. 🤷🏽♀️
It’s not a tantrum about not getting the bag. It’s about whether the “game” is right and legal. Some want the Hermes game because they feel it protects their investment. But I just feel as though it’s morally wrong and shady. Hope more join the lawsuit and they win to help fix the deceitful system.
If "pre-spend" are illegal, Hermes can go back to old-fashioned waiting list. Hermes isnt above the law.
I understand the business model, but for me it’s about transparency.
Not standardizing the prespend and keeping it mysterious is unethical and deceptive imo. I have no objection to the prespend model it’s-self, we can spend where we choose, it’s the secrecy and inconsistency of the prespend I object to.
No problem playing a good game, but I need to know the rules before we begin!!
But will that translate into successful litigation, we will see……
What if this backfires and Hermes just stops selling Birkin’s in the US ?🤔
Good riddance?
they’re gonna start shadowbanning EU resellers 😭😭
If found in violation of the Sherman Act, they may not be able to afford to stay
@@JoleeSO They are not.
Let's hope they do leave the US.
There are no tying purchases at Hermes that I can see so far from the stories told. Hermes should just leave California, or the USA. I think some overestimate the purchasing power of the US economy. This is the 21st century. Things have shifted far away from where things were in the 20th. Thanks for a great video Caleb.
I can’t wait to find out how this turns out, please keep us posted! Thank you for researching this! 😊
Me too, it's going to be interesting!
Hello Caleb,
I just stumbled across your channel, I love your content. 😍
With regards to the case at hand, I have a couple of thoughts.
First of all, the complaint is interesting. I have a legal background, but I must admit that I'm not that familiar with these types of issues. I will say, though, that this seems like an unfair complaint against Hermes, as typically you cannot force a retailer to sell to a buyer. Anything advertised or put out as available for purchase is just considered a legal "offer." This offer holds no guarantees of completing the sale. However, I think it gets muddy where Hermes representatives are telling people on the sly that they must pre-purchase in order to be considered. They are calling it "tying" her but it also seems like a bait and switch where you make all of these other purchases, yet still may have nothing to show. Likewise the fact that buyers are making all these other purchases heavily implies that there is more than just an offer from Hermes. I don't believe that a court finds that it rises to the level of an actual sale contract between 2 parties, but you never know.
If the court finds that there is enough to for the case, it will be fascinating to see how Hermes responds. Hermes and its practices would be subject to discovery where they have to disclose information to the court and plaintiffs. I am only a casual observer of Hermes, but even I know they don't want this. Hermes may be asked to disclose the purchase history of every customer who was allowed to purchase a Birkin, for example. Ultimately, the intent of the plaintiffs may be that they want to expose Hermes and its sales practices. The plaintiffs may not even care if they win. This could ultimately change how Hermes practices in the future.
Second, it's obvious that Hermes doesn't employ this strategy everywhere, like France for example. This leads me to question whether this practice is illegal in some countries, but not in others. Some countries have much stronger consumer protections. And I know that some says that Hermes and other sellers should have the right to do this, but just consider how frustrating junk fees are on you cell phone bill, tickets, etc. I am obviously speculating, but perhaps people shouldn't jump to defend Hermes out of the gate.
In the end, I think this complaint is aimed at forcing discovery and disclosure by Hermes. It will be fascinating watching this proceed.
Thanks for the great video, Caleb.
Honestly, this law suit is just plain stupid. IT'S JUST A BAG! Would I love a Birkin or Kelly? Absolutely. Can I live a happy life without one? Yes. No one is twisting anyone's arm to spend tens of thousands on stuff one doesn't need at Hermes just to be offered a bag. If one does it, and they can't afford it, then they are stupid.
Exactly! Keep it moving! 😝
Its not stupid. This class class action has brought up the issue that has been there for so long. Its anti trust law Hermes is breaking.
@@yoonchongong8914 I am sorry, it is stupid to be that upset over a bag - A BAG! Of course, they are going to offer them to their loyal customers who spend money - that's business 101. How do you keep your revenue coming in and growing? Repeat customers. Recurring revenue.These aren't mass produced bags so there aren't enough to go around. It's that simple. No one is making anyone spend tens of thousands to get offered a bag. Anyone who spends money, and that much money, on things they don't want or need in hopes of getting a bag is dumb.
I was hoping you'd do a video on this and you did not disappoint. I think Hermes' practices are unethical but they're also working very well for the company in terms of their financials so they have every incentive to keep going. The idea behind the lawsuit is interesting and I'm sure a lot of people, myself included, can't wait to see the result.
luxury is about creating desires and creating exclusivity. Hermes is the master of both. The accusation here on the contrary just shows how strong the brand is. Consistent support to the brand does not mean tens of thousands of spending in one go, but it means over time a genuine interest in all categories of the Maison and smart purchases.... given the demand for the BKC is far beyond the supply, Hermes has the bargaining power to make the access to BKC competitive among clients... of course, if you do not have the purchase power, kindly stay away rather than sue the company. From the company perspective, they need to train their sales better to be more tactful esp in the western part of the world where some people can easily get pissed off for not getting the grapes, their American sales in general is lacking sophistication compared with those in Europe. In China, on the contrary sales will tell you exactly what you need to buy to get qualified and it is a well accepted practice ....
Would LOVE for you to do a video on how Birkin's no longer being bench made!
This is a really frivolous lawsuit. It’s a waste of the court system’s time. By the time this lawsuit is over the people will have made the “prespend” to get their Birkin 3 times over (and will not likely wind up with a bag for your expense). Only those that don’t have money to purchase these bags worry about this. You don’t “have” to buy the bag if you don’t like the way Hermes does business.
They are bringing up the issue of sherman act. Anti trust law.
Rolex, Patek, Audemars, Ferrari... am I forgetting anybody else? 🤔 They will all have to change their business model and be more transparent in their practices. They all risk very bad reputational damage due to the social media machine throwing sh*t at them for being manipulative.
I believe there are numerous options for purchasing a Birkin bag, as the pre-loved market offers a plethora of exquisite pieces suitable for all Hermes enthusiasts. While availability may be limited in stores, it adds excitement to the shopping experience, especially when hoping to secure a quota bag. Brands aren't obligated to cater to consumers' demands; if you desire a bag, simply make the purchase. With plenty of avenues to acquire Hermes products, the options are abundant. Great segment!
Hermes is just Horse Girl energy. The bags are boring. The decor… just horse girl. It’s so bland.
They were probably trying to avoid what happened to LV and Gucci. These brands used to be the height of luxury but before we need it, every man and his dog had a LV bag or Gucci bag and sorry to say but most of them were trashy dressed young women. These brands lost their charm after that.
I hope the plaintiffs win. It would be more honest for Hermes to raise the price to £50k instead of forcing people to buy crap they dont really want.
I would not even consider doing a pre-spend, however much i wanted it. I would go to a second hand boutique. I agree with the principle of the law suit, though on the other hand, it is only a bag. It is not as if we are being denied access to green vegetables and fresh water. Thank you for the video!
I'm so fascinated to see how this goes down! 🧐
What a curve ball this lawsuit is. On one had I think it is genius of Hermes to make people buy from other categories. But it does in a way hurt the consumer. Will have to see what comes of it!
It's going to be interesting!
"The waitlist system" !!!!!! Oh my god babe I totally forgot about that! we have been so submerged in the pre-send now. That system was so epic as well to get on it a wait list, and I actually feel like it was even more exciting that way!!... Actually now I think about it that was where the whole "I got the call" came from right.???
I think you're right about the "I got the call" 😂 too funny, those were the days!!
The plaintiffs’ lawyers have actually defined the class to include the Birkin and the Kelly, and have asked the court for leave to amend to add other bags to the claim going forward if they gather evidence that Hermes did the illegal tying with other bags as well. It’s in sections 35 and 37 of “Class Action Allegations.”
I feel like it would have been easier to file a discrimination suit. Like they select only specific people to give quota bags to and make some people spend more than others as they choose. Basically it’s an unfair business practice.
You don’t know about the law that this video is about. One of the lawyers for the people suing said this when describing “tying.” “Imagine you go into McDonald’s to buy an ice cream and they say, sorry, you have to buy dinner first.” That is illegal and also you’re discriminating against people who can’t afford to drop thousands and thousands first before they can get a Birkin. So you aren’t affecting other brands, you’re affecting the customers who can’t afford to spend thousands and thousands before getting access to a Birkin. The only people who are happy with this Hermes rule are very ultra rich because they can afford to spends thousands and thousands to get access to a Birkin. Rolex, AP and Patek Philippe also play these games. It’s not fair to the consumer because that’s who is affected.
I have been wondering for well over a decade when this was going to go down. Shows you the power of the company they staved it off this long.
I disagree about the investment part. Most handbags are not good investments, including Birkin. The Hermes and second hand market is (in my opinion) manipulating the market. If you go on to the second hand websites, there are pages and pages of Birkin bags to buy at a markup. This makes the whole scarcity claim a tad disingenuous. That all being said, back to the investment part. Investments always carry risks. Meaning your investment can go up or your investment can go down. There is no guarantee with investments. As, for this lawsuit, if they can convince a judge to agree Hermes is violating antitrust law, specifically the Sherman Act, the Plaintiff's may very well have success.
I do think this lawsuit is frivolous. If you don't think the H game is fair or worth it, then don't buy from Hermes. There are many brands out there to choose from. And if you must have Hermes there are quite a few other sites/retailers who have them. However, Hermes probably should be more upfront about what it takes to get a quota bag. It would make them look better, and wouldn't leave them open to claims of discrimination. Because what parameters does an SA use to determine who gets a bag? Dayle from Dayle's Addiction got her Birkin because the SA liked her. Meredith got one because shes a VIP client and was with Dayle. How does that work? 🤔
You brought up so many great points, Ronnie! I do wish transparency played a part in process. Knowing how much one has to spend in order to get chosen to purchase their dream bag- and what if their dream bag is a less desirable bag vs. the mini Kelly or Kelly 28? And that's interesting that Dayle got hers by trying to be likeable and Meredith had to be a VIP. I'm curious how that played out!
@CalebSnell Transparency is always a good thing! But I think Hermès will just find other ways to play "the game." They will tighten up and streamline the process. And make sure those processes are the same in the US and Europe. They don't have the stock to meet demand if they let any and everyone buy. So there has to be a system in place. And unfortunately it will be unfair.
I often wonder, if they made Birkins easily available to any consumer, do you think the hype would die down? 🤔 I personally want a Kelly but I’m not into the spending game to acquire one or overpay on a resell site. At the end of the day, Hermes has been doing this forever and people who play the game score and in limited cases, some just get lucky with no spend or little spend. But those are far and few in between
I think Hermes is in the wrong. They should not discriminate against their customers.
I do feel badly for those that think it’s an actual contract even if it is unspoken that if they spend then they’ll get…Because we all know the stories of the many that this unspoken contract was NEVER filled. Some just are never going to get a bag directly from H. And there’s a variety of reasons but the cruelest is because their Sales Associate just doesn’t like them. Horrible
This is by far the most American and the most entitled lawsuit I have ever heard of so far. An epic tantrum by people who have too much time, too much money, and very little self restraint.
@@HauteGemsDallas I get it. We disagree on several points. But that is OK. Yes? It is my opinion that:
(1) The Hermes sea bass is the Hermes sea bass. People can get sea bass somewhere else, but they won’t be Hermes’
(2) The “tying” is not “tying”. (There was never a guarantee).
I am not a fan of Hermes’ game. In fact I despise it. But that shouldn’t prevent me from being logical and forming an opinion. The trouble with this debate is that it is emotionally charged. Which is a clue in itself about what all this is really about.
@@HauteGemsDallas I am not talking about you specifically. But in general. I am very well thank you. Same to you.
@@HauteGemsDallas Indeed.
Or people that want to make money out of a successful company
@@ladyofwinterfel8143 Seeking monetary settlement to make the bad publicity go away? Quite possibly. Even a first year law student can see that this is a frivolous lawsuit. What could possibly be the end results hoped? Money, is not too far off a guess.
I don't think it's entitlement to sue. Specially because probably whoever can afford it is not the one benfitting from the lawsuit. I think it's discrimination to vet your clients and link sell. Either everyone can buy if they have the money or you're discriminating and thats illegal.
I just think this is so interesting. I do see this as tying..similar to what was said below. They do not allow you to spend your money on shoes, scarfs, etc on the brands you want to because you *have* to buy them from Hermes to get your bag. Also, it then makes Hermes appear more popular than they should be, because people have to spend the money on Hermes and thus more is bought from them.
People stanning for Hermes is wild!
To be fair, I'm not sure what it's like in the US but in the UK, anyone with £10k spare can go and buy a Birkin. Our luxury preloved sites are saturated with Birkins and Kellys!
I don't like Hermes tactic of having to be offered a bag, its just gross for me but I am also not sure that this lawsuit will stand up in court either! An interesting one to watch!
It’s gotten out of hand for sure but I do think if anyone and everyone could get a birkin or kelly, not many of us would care to get one and as mentioned, the investment value would significantly drop. It IS special that not many are offered but I do think again, it’s gotten out of hand.
Also, it is kind of bullshit that online spending doesn’t count. The whole idea is if you buy from Hermes in other categories you must love the brand and appreciate the brand. When I first purchased from Hermes, I didn’t even care about the bags - I fell in love with the silks and ties for my husband etc. I spent over 6K online once, , dumb yes now in retrospect but it does prove I genuinely loved products from the brand. If they are going to do this prespend system, then online and in store purchases should count - We all don’t have a store near us. Also, the SA’s hold a lot of power, perhaps more than they should?
I also think it should be clear as to what you need to spend to get this bag or that bag. Maybe the exotics can be a mystery for their VIP. Not sure how that should work. I know for me the perfect bag would be the mini Kelly, well I’ve been told by my SA she is working on getting me one but they only get a few in a year. I would like to know, hey spend this, and my manager will let you get a mini Kelly. Idk. It’s complicated.
I am so sick of birkins
There is something to this lawsuit. How are these celebrities able to obtain multiple bags?
I can’t believe there’s an attorney out there that actually thought this was worth taking a shot at. Just move on to another fashion house. Why even waste time in fighting over a bag that’s hard to get?!
because it’s discrimination
@@danween it’s discrimination that there’s a process to purchasing these bags?!
@@timekanewsome657picking and choosing based on certain criteria is very discriminatory
@@timekanewsome657 if someone has the money for one, why refuse selling them something especially if you’re not gaining commission off that sale? instead, you have to purchase several other things from Hermes before even being considered OR you pay WAY ABOVE store value for an older version
Most likely if they've taken on the case in CA. they know they can win.
My aunt gave me her 1990's Hermes Brikin. I don't use it. It looks like a men's briefcase - bulky and ugly. I don't get why some people go wild over it. It's just a bag.
I dont understand..I ordered Oran sandals because I wanted them. If someone would have said that I need to buy 2 ceramic bowls or something in order to purchase these sandals I would think this is not right..I am new to Hermes since I usually buy LV but for me its like you want something so you go check out the availability. If its there you buy if its not there you dont buy.. what if I have saved up a long time to buy just that handbag and I am dreaming about that bag ever since..there is no extra money left to buy anything else than that.. so I dont get that bag because I am not worthy? Not rich enough? I dont like that mentality too much I have to say..but then I live in Europe and on the website a lot of items are available just to purchase them. Not the Birkins unfortunately but a lot of other items are.. lets see if they might change their mentality…probably not..
Can’t wait to hear what the verdict will be. 😅
This is a frivolous lawsuit. Hermes has a right to run their business the way they want whether you like it or not. I do not believe any court should have the right to intervene in a company's legal business practices and force the company, here Hermes, to conduct their business a certain way unless public safety is at risk. There are plenty of bags on the resale market. Hermes has the right to refuse to sell their birkins, kellys, constances- whatever- to anyone.
Agree!! This is a ‘law’suit and don’t think Hermès has broken any laws in the way they conduct their business. It could be deemed as unfair but not illegal.
Tying purchases are illegal in CALIFORNIA.
Rolex AD’s pull this same staff as Hermes.
WOW! Thank you so much for this video! Very well done!
Glad you liked it! Thank you, Monarch!
This is all ridiculous to say the least.
: : I saw this in my news notifications & immediately thought “what’s Caleb going to say about this.” I can see both sides. Yes they don’t have to produce and then sell a product just because a consumer demands it, but to train their employees to suggest to customers that if they buy all these other things they would have an advantage over someone else in accessing the coveted product and then not guarantee it to be true seems like an unethical shady practice. But then again I wouldn’t buy into the “journey” that way personally. I would never want someone else to tell me what I should or shouldn’t buy or need to buy. No thank you. I can decide for myself and if that’s how you have to get the coveted item that item no longer has value in my eyes. (Just my humble opinion.) That said, I can appreciate people who actually like playing that game even if I don’t necessarily understand it. Safe space. Thanks for the great content as always. : :
Thank you, Tigerlilly! I agree, I can see both sides 100. For me, I know that I would never want to play the game, so I just went straight to the preowned route. I was able to get what I wanted, and save a lot of money. I think that also takes some of the pressure off when I pop into H, I can buy or not buy whatever I want- I already have the bag! It's going to be interesting to see how this all plays out!
Tying purchases aren't technically illegal ... It's just illegal in California, where things are done differently.
I can't believe they misspelled Birkin🤣😂😂.
The plaintiffs want the bag for the exclusivity that they are at the same time trying to destroy. Isn’t it ironic…don’t you think?
Who will be next? Porsche? 🙄
It's not about building a relationship with SA it's about how you can make the SA get commissions as their satisfaction for living like a restaurant service charge.
This lawsuit won’t go far! There is nothing illegal… Hermes just want some specific rich people to be seen with a Birkin. Do i like this approach? Not at all… but no one force me to buy some Hermes stuff… so if anyone want to play such game, good for them! However, i’ll pass! If i buy something, i want in the end to be in total control of my decision… not the brand! I respect scarcity and limited edition, but i don’t have time for game… and moreover, game without clear rules!
Tying purchases are illegal in CALIFORNIA.
@@oldpalmcity But it’s not officially tying purchase… and of course Hermes will be able to demonstrate this easily by showing that some customers are able to buy the bag right away (extremely rare but that as already happened in the past) and that other customers are on a waiting list! Hermes is clearly playing a game but they know how to blur the line here! And trust me they will give many examples to show that some customers "could purchase a Birkin" but they choose the wrong leather or color on their wish list… nobody will win anything with this case except Hermes to get free publicity! 🤷🏻♂️
@@darkovinster2754 👏
@@oldpalmcity There are no “tying purchases” from the stories told so far.
@@darkovinster2754 Well put.
Caleb, you’re kind of proving the plaintiff’s case for them
I don’t believe in scarcity. It’s just exclusivity and human games. I don’t even play Mario Party so I will not play any games! Either they want my money, or I’m not gonna force my money down their throat.
This is a terrible premise for a company to operate on. Pre-spend to get a *chance* at the product you want?? That's so laughable!
Hi 👋 Caleb I always admire your hard work with research on these type of l subjects it’s definitely a divisive topic to broach and I applaud you for that. Your video is well done and informative I’m interested in following the story as one of the commentators said Class action lawsuits start off as seemingly frivolous at first but have the right to amend their claims etc. Down the road. I am curious how Hermes will broach this lawsuit. I find this all very fascinating. Thanks for sharing.👛🛍️🚢🙏🦆
Thank you so much, Dee Dee! I'm curious to see how this whole thing plays out. Part of me thinks H will settle outside of court, because they won't want their financials and process to be known, so they'll do what they can to avoid court.
All I can say is if you want a quota bag you need to develop a relationship with an SA. You also need to maintain the relationship. Make sure it’s an SA you vibe with, and eventually you’ll get what you want.
I think the lawsuit is silly.
you’re silly for defending a multi million dollar empire discriminating against people and refusing to sell them a bag they can afford
Tying purchases are illegal in CALIFORNIA.
@@danween I’ve not had issues getting what I want because I have a long-standing relationship with my SA. He always works to get me what I’ve asked for, so no, it’s not silly. People who want to sue for things like this is silly, if they spent a bunch of $ to try to get something that’s on them, not Hermes.
I'll just carry on with other handbags like my two Margaux 15s I just purchased. Too much going on in life to make a brand such a big worrisome part of it.
4-5 :1 ration in my city ,Vancouver,canada
Caleb. I am surprised I didn’t know they made home goods. For rest of the topic I am at a loss for words.
Lol instead of spending with H, they instead bring lawsuits for ‘their’ special Berkin. I side with Hermes. Exclusivity is luxury - they are meant to be scarce
The amount of money wasted just to get a handbag. 😂 spend 20k on garbage before you’re even offered a Birken that you probably don’t even truly want but you accept bc???? This concept is wild! What’s worse is that people fall for this scam. 😂😂😂
LOL, Hermès is under no obligation to sell you a damned thing! American entitlement is clashing with French pretentiousness. I'm with the French on this.
A person has to hate themselves a lot to humiliate themselves like that because of a logo, what are you trying to prove?
If you really want the bag just buy it on a secondary resell market. Don’t waste money on a lawsuit.. FYI I don’t happen to think this bag is a great looking bag, not sure what all the fuss is about.
At this point I think the Constance is my dream bag just because it's hard to get. Dumb.
Caleb, I think this is an “interesting” lawsuit. However, I think the concept of a pre-spend is ludicrous! I also think that only owners of a Birkin or Kelly would support Hermes in this and thus, want to continue with the pre-spend to ensure scarcity and demand. This is elitism at its core, which I think is concerning. To have 10k to spend on a frivolous thing is a privilege, especially when ppl in this country and others are faced with “real issues”. The pre-spend is just another layer to make a profit on those yearning to be considered among the elite. Ppl who have $10k to spend on their “wants” should be able to buy whatever they want without buying a hideous pair of sandals.
Rolex, they're coming for you next!
Good point!
@@CalebSnell Caleb I made a video about the implications for Rolex and tried to email you for your input. Do you have time for a chat?
I think that I wouldn't spend that much money on a bag .However I do like the look and I'm not going to judge people if they want to get it. To me this is not ok what the company is doing to costumers making them spend the money and maybe never get the bag . That's shady. They sending a message :" we are "high society" better then everyone else and you don't belong in our club". I don't like that what so ever . If you have the money you should be able to buy this bag. Maybe a wait list but defiantly you get the bag. They saying "I'm better then you "becaouse you can't get my bag. And the quality of there products it's very good however they probably not spending a lot of money to make it but they charge a ton. No I wouldn't jump through hoops at all. I watched youtubers who went to the store and they where treated like garbage so costumer service is horrible . What is even the point of this bag ? To show of ? Show everybody you better then them ? I don't get it. Someone please explain. I think hermes is overhyped brand by social media. Snobs.
Yeah I’ll just find a high quality replica before I play some childish game with some vapid snobby store clerk. I like the style of the bag and the look- could care a less about the Hermes part.
Wow!
Showtime 😅😅
Silly women with too much money & working class trying to buy class! 😅 go on line resale " No shortage " go any Asian resale store tons of Hermes bags "no shorthage". 😊
No comment 😎
She pleads the fifth!
I think you’re being short sighted and only thinking of the Berkin and Hermes and are not thinking of the implications. Other brands, like Van Cleef & Arpels, are trying to copy Hermes’s lead. If something is not done to the leader of this practice, then the followers will all have a hay day. Do you really want this same practice to pop up everywhere? Oh, and it will pop up at other places.
I think I’m turned off to your videos now that you’ve stated you position for the practice.
I didn’t state any position, merely shared the information being reported. Thank you for your feedback though.
I think the problem with the Hermes game is that there aren't defined rules to getting a quota bag.
You either get lucky in Paris or luck out with a nice SA.
Hermes needs to give the public concrete rules and conditions to obtaining a quota bag. And it should be stated on their website.
I can see why people feel discriminated against.
I love that you did this video! I can’t wait to see how this goes down. 🤎😘