I think most UL hikers just cover their bodies with a combination of Dynema, Smartwater bottles and cut-in-half toothbrushes while wearing a full merino wool union suit, down hoodie and a pair of athletic shorts they bought in the girls department at Goodwill.
I'm not an ultralighter by any means.. but if you are a person that hate sleepingbags b/c they're so restrictive, then a couple of straps isn' even close to being the same. Much easier to change sides for a side sleeper such as my self. I always used bags like quilts anyways, and I know many who did the same. So it's more like free weight for us!
my thoughts as well, the two straps that attach to your pad only keep the quilt on top and centered, but do nothing to restrict your actual movement underneath the quilt. I'll admit it took a LOT of adjustment to figure out how to get comfortable with the quilt but once I did I slept like a baby out there. I don't see myself ever going back to a sleeping bag unless I'm snow camping in really cold weather.
I usually clip the straps on one side of the quilt for anchor, leaving the other side open. Not constricting at all. But the straps aren’t weightless, lol.
I very much appreciate your comment. It's funny how people who make videos like this never mention how they sleep. I am also a side sleeper and I absolutely hate the constrictiveness of a bag, especially a mummy bag. So yeah, I also butterfly my bag but have been seriously considering picking up one of those Paria quilts. They appear to be great for the price.
I would definitely think this is where quilts would excel is warmer weather when a accidental vent is not deleterious and you might want to hang a limb out to cool off. I sleep very hot so bags have always been kinda a hard go for me unless it's fall or later or the nights are really cool.
I personally prefer a sleeping bag. If it’s warm, I just completely open it up and use it like a quilt. When it’s cold, I use it as advertised. Best of both worlds!!!!! 😎
Right gear for the right job. I think too many people search for THE perfect piece of gear for all applications and it doesn't exist. :) New sub, good stuff!
Couldnt agree more. I us a kodiak canvas rectangular bag for drive up camp sites, and for actual backpacking I have down summer mummy and a winter synthetic mummy.
I have some of the same draft issues with EE quilts. Now that I have a Katabatic with elastic binding around the bottom, a catenary cut and differential cut baffles, drafts are eliminated. Attached to the pad, this keeps everything in place whereas a sleeping bag conforms (the restrictive feeling) to my body and slides around on the pad in weird ways for me. The other big benefit of a quilt for me is the versatility of laying it out in warmer temps and then cinching it down when it is closer to its temp rating. I also factor in wearing mid and puffy layers to add warmth, so my 30F comfort rated quilt is effective from the mid 20s all the way up to the 50s. Critical to the system is pad and head warmth. Unfortunately, I think a lot of folks have a bad experience with quilts because they don’t boost these elements of the system. A 1oz beanie in warmer weather or 2oz down balaclava when colder are more flexible than a fixed sleeping bag hood. And still lighter when paired with the 21oz quilt. If you sleep cold with an insulated pad like an xLite, then switch to a 4 season pad like an xtherm and you’ll notice the difference right away. None of this is meant to argue your main point about objectivism. Absolutely, any piece of gear should be evaluated on its performance in different conditions, not because of marketing or popularity. Objectively, I prefer a quilt in those temp ranges because it is the most effective for me. ✌️
I really mean it when I say I want this channel to be a community of people who can offer up their experiences and opinions without fear of being taken the wrong way. I’m only one person who has only my experiences so can’t tell you how much I appreciate your thoughtful input based on yours. We are all here to learn and I think you make some great points. I hope you stick around to do more of it! Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences!
@@EmoryByLand Thank you for your openness and inviting words. Your podcast is refreshingly reflective and diverse and it feels like you bring your whole self to the content you put out in the world. Truly a “would like to hang out with that dude” in my book. Cheers Emory!
I love my quilt. I tend to get tangled and feel claustrophobic (even in a rectangular bag). The quilt needs to be wide enough to cut down on drafts. My first quilt was not wide enough and I was cold. My second quilt was a 10° EE Accomplice shared with my hubby and I was cold. I now have a 20° Thermarest Vesper quilt. It only weighs 19 ounces and I am warm now. For me this was a lesson in getting the thing you really want the first time lol. 2 Foot Adventures is great, my husband got a Lite AF pack from them last year.
With all due respect, I'm 6'4", broad-shouldered, backpacking for 40 years. NEVER found a mummy bag that was comfortable. I don't pack in sub-40 weather; looks like you do. To ward off the chill, I'll use the straps on my REI quilt, or wear long underwear top and bottom. I like movement, even throughout the night. Thanks for your review. Happy trails. Phil, Albuquerque
Been a long time BA 20° Lost Ranger Down sleeping bag lover. However as I started to looks at ways to cut weight a buddy had me try his quilt. Fell in love with it. For the longest time I would tolerate cold spots from my bag. I thought I was cold yet most of my body was warm. I soon deduced that as I rolled from one side to the other, the top shoulder and upper hip were compressing into the bag causing the down to lose its loft. Thus giving me a cold spot. A quilt is perfect for a side sleeper. To complete the sleep system I recommend the Thermarest NeoAir Xlite R/W Pad (the wide 25” is best), a Silk Cacoon (soft, comfy, add’l warmth), a pillow w/pillowcase or a buff puff. I find the Silk Cacoon does just that; cacoons you inside your quilt preventing any compression against the down which creates cold spots. It also reduces the risk of drafts, increases the overall R value, and puts a comfortable barrier between you and the sleeping pad. Win, win, win! Quilt wins! 😝
Fair enough and I'm happy you have the system that works for you. But you say you got cold spots where you compressed the sleeping bag. You shouldn't get any more cold spots from a compressed sleeping bag than you would from having nothing there... That makes no sense.
@@jens-kristiantofthansen9376 It does make sense. In a sleeping back when you turn, the bag turns with you, and the part that was under you and compressed is now on top as a cold spot until it regains loft. In a quilt, you toss and turn and the quilt stays on top, never compressed. The pad is the same regardless, hopefully with a high enough R-value
@@asyakier I turn over inside my sleeping bag - I don't turn the sleeping bag with me. To be fair, I mostly use my sleeping bag as a blanket and only zip it up if it's really cold. Don't get me wrong, I do see the point but I've been put off quilts a little bit by a couple of factors: 1. A narrative came about in which, suddenly, it all had to be quilts. Quilts, quilts, quilts. I tend to have misgivings about that sort of thing. Hype is rarely a good recommendation. 2. The price of quilts. For some reason, a decent quilt usually sets you back twice as much as even a very good sleeping bag. There is no good reason why this should be the case other than hype. With the sleeping bag I sort of get both options; I can use it as a sleeping bag or I can use it much the same as I would a quilt. The versatility is a positive for me. And for $400 I got a sleeping bag for which, if I had wanted the equivalent quilt, I'd have had to pay $800.
These are definitely some valid points. I've definitely experienced similar problems but ultimately have found a solution that works for me which actually was as simple as using an extra-wide quilt. With an extra-wide, I can attach the sides of the quilt together and close off drafts really well while still having enough room to toss and turn. I really wish there were inexpensive quilts people could try out before purchasing. Most of the high-end quilts are upwards of $400. Even the more budget-friendly ones I make still cost a lot more than a cheap sleeping bag.
Awesome job highlighting a different side of quilts. I've been backpacking for 24 years and with all of the videos about quilts, I feel like there really is "pressure" to change. But I love your arguments about losing the warm air if you adjust position through the night. I'll stick with my bag for the foreseeable future. Cheers!
I keep hearing about the weight savings for quilts but they normally only save a few ounces compared to a quality lightweight down bag at the cost of an integral hood and the bottom of the bag that traps heat. That is a steep price to pay for a few ounces. For those few extra ounces, I have the advantage of a quilt or a sleeping bag depending on temperatures. I can open up my bag and use it over me as a quilt without strapping it around me because the extra fabric compared to single purpose quilts allows the sleeping bag to drape on the ground sealing me from most drafts and without the constriction of quilt straps. I also tuck my feet into the footbox which doesn't feel too confining to me. But when the temps drop lower, up comes the zipper and the hood to warm me in a down cocoon. Less space to warm, no drafts from the side, and very easy to seal off drafts from the top with a draft collar or midlayer loosely wrapped around my neck. Very versatile system. Always tailored to my needs rather than tailoring my needs to a quilt.
This is exactly how I see it, too. Most of the time, I use my sleeping bag as a quilt with no need to strap anything. Temperatures change overnight so now and then at 4am, it's time to zip up and I can do that easily. Don't get me wrong - I'm all for the option to have a quilt and that it's the right choice for some people but over the past couple of years particularly, the rhetoric has largely gone into hype territory where 'if you're not using a quilt, you're doing it wrong' has practically become the norm. And that's silly. When you look at the product vs. the price, it is hard to justify why quilts tend to be so much more expensive and it appears to me that it's down to hype and very little else. Manufacturers found a way to manufacture an alternative sleeping bag (out of less material and simpler manufacture) at lower cost, and hyped it to sell it at a higher price point. 'Here's a sleeping bag... we remove the zipper.... and the hood.... and some of the material so it doesn't reach all the way around and... we increase the price.'
100% agreed. I got into UL a few years ago and went the same route. They are fine for spring and fall but I suffer the extra weight every time when the nights are below 40*F
I bought a 20 degree quilt when I had to replace an old sleeping bag. It's been nice, but when it's chilly, I end up cinching up the footbox and zipping up the quilt into a bag, one that doesn't have a hood. For the slight weight savings, it's not worth the downsides, so I'll be selling the quilt and getting a bag again, at least for colder temperatures.
While I do enjoy a sleeping quilt, I must admit its used during Spring through early fall climates low of 25 April/early May and a high of 75/80 “am/pm” not the middle of day temps. Winter camping changes my thoughts on gear used and definitely the sleeping system. Oct-March “sleeping bag” just my thoughts. Great content as always, have a great week every one…😉🤙🏽
I totally agree with you, I had the exact same experience with a quilt. I tried it off and on for 4 years before I finally completely gave up on it. I went back to a sleeping bag and I was comfortable again. I open my sleeping bag up, and drape it over me like a quilt in warmer weather and that works well. Since a sleeping bag is wider than a quilt, when it's opened up, you don't have the same draft issue that you have with a quilt, but you gain the freedom of movement many people seek.
@@EmoryByLand The Quilt Community will gaslight you too, "User Error", "You're using it wrong", no they just suck. I didn't get the whole strap thing either, it made it so much more complicated.
@@josephjamison5007 You can be totally objective about your equipment, but really it's just your subjective at the end of the day. What works for you might not work for someone else and vice-versa. Dealing in absolutes like "quilts just suck" and "you're not using a quilt correctly" don't contribute the conversation at hand.
THANK you. I have not stayed warm in my quilt in the backcountry. Drafts here, drafts there, drafts everywhere. I just received a new sleeping bag that I think will be wonderful.
Totally agree. Quilts are for WARM weather or for hammocks. The bottom of a sleeping bag is NOT useless. Not only does a bag trap the warm air inside, but the down insulation on the bottom helps keep you warm, even though some of it is compressed (it is not "all or nothing," and laying on top of a down layer is not the same as laying directly on your pad).
I really do think there are only 2 reasons, maybe 3, where a quilt makes the most sense. 1) when you HATE a bag, 2) it's summer weather, and 3).....maybe you want to cut weight? That last one still doesn't quite work for me though because there are plenty of bags out there that are SUPER light. Thanks for chiming in!
Totally agree with the "be objective" advice. I'm still satisfied with my quilt for the type of backpacking I do, which is casual and usually warm weather. I have had it in the cold a few times and been fine with it. I am a side sleeper that switches sides a few times a night, and I still like the quilt because I can sort of tuck it in behind me under my shoulder. I have found with some bags that the round shape of the bag itself can sometimes make that hard, and then I have a draft on my back. I had the same issue when I tried pad straps with my quilt: they just pull the quilt off my back and make it colder.
That’s awesome you found what works for you. That’s literally what it’s all about! Also, I love the phrase “casual backpacker.” It sounds balanced and sincere. Thanks!
Great explanation of your experience. I personally have an EE quilt that I got for my hammock but swallowed the pill that it was the bees knees for all hiking. Always slept colder with it, still have to tie and cinch everything up like a bag in cooler weather so have upgraded to a bag again. Most bags zip half or the full way down anyway, and weight is negligible. In warmer weather I'll still take the bag now and use a lighter pad unless I'm back in the hammock
You're absolutely right about the material under your body. Yes, it does get crushed, however that doesn't negate an insulating property. Here's what folks forget (or perhaps intentionally omit) in the quilt discussion (or the Big Agnes bag discussion): There are two types of thermal loss that we have to deal with. One is convection. That's the air moving past and pulling the heat of our bodies away. That's why a breeze feels better than no breeze on a hot day. It's also why the loft in our bags is so important that's above us (which is the whole quilt vs bag argument). However there's a second thermal consideration, and that's CONDUCTION. Thermal conduction is mitigated or enhanced by placing material between you and the thermal source. It can help to cool you by increasing conduction which acts like a heatsink, or it can reduce thermal conduction by placing a non-conductive material between two objects. A fun and enlightening experience in thermal CONDUCTION. Find a hard, cool surface that you can lay down on, like a tile or concrete floor. Go on ahead and do that with your shirt on. Now do it with your shirt off. Pretty significant difference, right? Of course, and that t-shirt effectively has a zero R-value, yet there was a big delta in how much thermal transference occurred. The same happens in our hammocks. Sure, an underquilt is great, but a pad under you is also great, and there may be times when you don't want any pad and could use that additional convection with minimal conduction insulation to keep you cool on a hot night. I happen to use a 'pod' system (a Hyke and Byke Antero bag). This allows the hammock to pass through, combining the underquilt and top quilt in a single bag which reduces a bunch of unnecessary material and size. Combined with a pad this gets me well into some very cold temperatures. Combined with a smaller down blanket (I use a Horizon Hound G-20), and my REI AIRRAIL Plus pad, I can get my 0F Antero bag, in a quilt down to 8F comfortably with headroom to go lower (and I'm a cold sleeper). The point isn't to advertise those products, even though they're great and are quite affordable, but to illustrate that very cold temperatures can be easily achieved in a hammock if one manages both CONVECTION and CONDUCTION in their sleep systems as appropriate for their conditions.
Quilts for me are all about weight, freedom of movement is second thought but I really appreciate it. I have used it 200 nights plus over a couple winter trips and mountaineering at 20000ft in the Andes and it has kept me warm even when fully damp. I credit my use of a bivy bag (OR Interstellar) to this performance because it is an enclosed tiny space with minimal draft potential. So the combo of a UL quilt + UL shelter is what makes it work for me. I made my own 0F quilt. It weights 1kg and it cost me about 230$, anything comparable in terms of weight and warmth is about 800$+
If your putting a quilt in a bivy bag you basically making a sleeping bag so i dont think your point is valid when comparing the 2. for people using a tent a quilt will suck in the cold
I'm with you on this I tried a quilt and whilst OK for kinda good weather when really cold is not an issue for everything else I take the bag every time.
great vid. as a backpacker with 35 yrs experience i will totally agree. i do like quilts as theres a season for everything but a great quilt does not replace a great sleeping bag. thanks for that
Solid explanation. I hiked the PCT 18' with a DIY quilt that I made, knowing about these drafts I made the quilt extra wide (64" wide) so I could combat moving around and not getting cold air underneath. I hiked the entire trail with that quit and honestly didn't have issues. Luckily I sleep warm. But, I will say I still prefer a sleeping bag - they make bags out there just as lightweight. I recently picked up a Western Mountaineering 32 Summerlite, which it's only 19 oz! I mean it's a no brainer to use this bag over a quilt. Personally I think a quilt shines when you are trying to save space such as when bike packing. There's not as much real estate on a bike so having bulky items is aways the crux. Anyway great video. Andy
Thanks for your video. However, i would like to ask you what kind off sleeping pad are you using? You should point out to your audience that the sleeping pad is EXTREMELY important in maintaining heat, ESPECIALLY if you use a quilt, (iny experience). For example, i have a foam sleeping pad, AND a very thin (5 cm) mummy inflatable sleeping pad that i use with a aegismax wind hard quilt and it's been great (even down to less than 0C). But if i use it without the foam pad it will be cold. I also have 2 different foam pads that i use interchangeably depending on the weather. One, a full length (190cm) full width (70cm) foam pad, and a second, cut up foam pad (50cm width, 165 length) and here again, i can detect a difference in warmth in colder situations. In short, while i appreciate your suggestion to ask ourselves why we do things, i did not hear advice to your audience, (which inexperienced hikers i think should hear this) that quilts require a good sleeping pad system for cold weather use. Otherwise,they don't work as intended.
All info is important, although I would guess that people who are serious enough about it to regularly hike and sleep in colder temps are well aware of the exaggerated - but bona fide - role that R-value plays in a pad. To be honest, though, most people will never sleep in temps cold enough that a decent R-value is needed, unless it's by accident. I counsel them that - when it comes to comfort - it's more important to go thicker and wider, especially if you can't guarantee that you will sleep on your back all night. And you can get 3" thick, 25" wide pads with R-values of 1.3-1.8 all day for about $30-$40.
Not that I have a quilt but on warmer nights I often zip open the top of my bag and use it "quilt style". Very comfortable and makes changing position easy.
Yeah. Same here. But if I'm hiking, rectangular ones at a decent weight and warmth are pretty limited. But I can't fit in most regular mummy bags now, so I invested in a brand that makes larger mummy bags. It's a bag used by European military in some places that still comes in at about 3.5# for a 20-degree. I can't recall the brand, but Outdoor Gear Review did a review on it in the last year or so as a great value bag, so if you're interested feel free to check that out. It adds a few inches in the shoulders, which helps me tremendously.
I tend to move a lot while sleeping. When camping in cold conditions I always use the elastic cords with my quilt. They stick the quilt to the mat no matter what dance I do while I am sleeping. And by the way, the warm air stays in and the cold one, out.
Definitely not for everybody - in general i find that people who sleep warm, doesnt move much while they sleep - and perhaps most side and especially stomach sleepers (like me) - and people who perhaps find sleeping bags constrictive - those are the ones who should try a quilt - weight is not the reason, amount you might save is in the few grams - not worth compromising sleep comfort for. I have been using a quilt for 10ish years and love it - almost never use padstraps as i am a very "quite" stomach sleeper who can tug the quilt under my arms/body eliminating the issue you mention with air circulation - but the only real reason i see for trying a quilt if you already have a sleeping bag is for comfort
Very good advise. I’ve been on the fence and am not willing to purchase. Would love to “try” one sometime and now maybe not. My bag unzips all of the way on one side, partially on the other and the foot box unzips. I love that. It’s a 25 degree bag, I do not sleep cold and have been comfortable in it from 15-80 degrees.
Good video! I think everything depends from your goals. I use zenbivy system (25 and 10 degrees ) in spring/summer season. I works great and super comfortable. When temperature down below 15 degrees I use bags (western mountaineering ). It works great earthier but not super comfy like quilts.
Your points are well made. Quilts over sleeping bags have almost become an orthodoxy amongst serious hikers. I’ve always disliked the restrictive feeling of sleeping bags, particularly mummy bags. I’m a side sleeper and tend to run hot at night so would open up sleeping bags like a quilt. I eventually moved over to quilts. For two or three season weather in northern latitudes quilts are a better choice for me. However, for winter trekking or hiking, I don’t think I’d risk a quilt - better a down mummy bag with guaranteed warmth no matter how restrictive. Besides, I dislike the fiddle nature of the quilt straps and cords - maybe it’s just me and I need to practice the setup more. And on the subject of equipment orthodoxy, merino first layers have people raving and indeed they are warm but the itch drives me crazy (that includes Smart Wool and Icebreaker products) and I have gone back to synthetics.
What does everything for me is my ksb 0° oversized sleeping bag it has stretch baffles to make room I think it's the best bag I've ever had and will never go back to a quilt that was a great video I totally agree with you keep up the good work
I am a winter camper and canoe camper, so weight and volume are not a big consideration for me. i am either paddling, or pulling a sled, so the extra few ounces are inconsequential to me. like you, i am interested in trying new sleep system out of curiosity. i have read that the quilts are less restrictive for side sleepers like me. on a cold night, i would probably not rely solely on a quilt but for later summer/early fall, it can be a good choice. thanks for the video and for your candour. everything that you said made sense to me.
Fwiw, I agree. And slpg bags are now as light as quilts or can be, can also be opened up like quilts. We now only use quilts travelling and in cars, never the backcountry anymore. Our S2S Sparks and Flames are putstanding products. To each their own but we always found our quilts (3 diff brands) ineffective for us too. Hopefully the Quiltstopo doesn’t overreact 🤣🤣😉
Thank you for this video!!! I've been back packing for only a couple years and I'm on a tight budget. I have a very comfy bag that I love, but I keep hearing all these influencers talk about quilts and I debate spending more money on a quilt...I think I'm good with my bag and when I get the extra money I'll probably try a quilt, but for now I'm good with the bag I have.
You’re welcome! Yeah, you don’t need a quilt just because someone is plugging one. If what you have works, stay the course and level up your gear somewhere else. Of course, it’s always fun to play around with different gear but for now, ion a budget, stay with what you have. Thanks for watching!
My experience: I always used my sleeping bag as a quilt until I was in the market for a new bag. Went with quilt and I'm personally happy. Obviously a personal decision. I got the widest quilt, and am able to close it up if needed. Big weight saving from an old bag, but modest saving from a comparably-priced bag.
I completely agree. I use a sleeping bag in a bivy, even in a tent. That allows me to retain body heat in the winter & gives me the option of sleeping on top of my bag with just the bivy fabric covering on hot nights. The bivy gives me the option of cowboy camping, keeping bugs at bay, when I don't want to set up the tent.
I hammock camp for the most part , in a tent I still use a quilt. With a sleeping bag the layer under you does nothing but flattens out loosing all it's insulation. From that experience my sleeping bag was always unzipped and used as a semi quilt. I use a Therm-a-rest full length mummy style self inflating air mattress in the Hammock. It's 1/2 to 3/4 inflated so it conformers to my body and the hammock at the same time. The mattress offers insulation for my backside while the quilt offers warmth for the top. Most of the time the foot box is not attached so it becomes a large blanket when in the hammock. A real quilt does not have zippers to stick you and I find they are a lot more comfortable. I gave my sleeping bags away and only use the quilts.
I’ve a sleeping pad with vertical baffles and i get a minor draft of air going along with the baffles and under my body. In the summer it’s great because I can use my sleeping bag as a quilt and I’ll get lots of ventilation. Three season use I zip it up to waist height. Winter I have to close it fully because otherwise i get cold spots between my body and the pad. The sleeping bag’s down fills the baffles. It’s absolute not useless. It also prevents drafts greatly. And the hood is often missing from quilts. I have a beanie, a neck buff and a ski mask if I need the warmth, but excel for winter I end up not using those because the hood is just perfect.
I use a large fleece blanket. It packs down smaller and lighter than a sleeping bag, is very warm and deals well with being wet - any moisture just moves to the outside surface of the blanket (which is cooler than the warm fluffy inside). It came in a tough plastic bag and the same can be used to pack it down compactly inside and keep it waterproof during carrying and storage. It's not as simple to use in the dark as a zip bag, especially in a hammock, but it's never been a problem.
From what I’ve seen, a lot of quilters use the under quilt in a hammock. Maybe that makes more sense? I dunno. I have a cheap pad in a hammock with a super old down bag and am good to 25. My buddy used a quilt in a bivy sack but he has a 4” or so thick sleeping pad and the quilt is strapped to the pad. I think your assessment of “test it if you like it, but don’t become too attached to an idea” is pretty correct!!!
You mentioned, When it's cold. What is a cold temperature where you travel? I do use a quilt as part of my Morular Sleep System. My outer shell is a under one pound bivy bag with a waterproof bottom and breathable top. Next in goes my sleeping pad followed by a bag liner only for warm summer nights. when the temperature dops to the 40's I will add a one pound down quilt over me When the temp drops below 32 f 0 C . I can fold the quilt in half with half under me and the other half on top. In summer weather 70F and above I sleep in my shorts and under shirt in the bivy bag. When the temp starts dropping closer to 0C I switch to my Nyja suite of poly pro bottoms and Moreno long sleeve tops and alpaca socks and a one pound, down hooded jacket. The zipped up Bivy traps the warm body heat and expels the body vapor. I never sleep with my exposed body on the sleeping pad. I have spent a lot of my life traveling by foot, bike Kayak and canoe,. I really have never had a problem keeping warm. When the temp is reaches zero Freiheit down to minus 20, I will add one more module to the system, a mid weight sleeping bag. I'm a big believer in Bring What You Need, not what the manufacturer or books say you need. We all have a different comfort range depending on our experiences with cold temp ranges. I have been known in my younger days of bring along a 400 page book. Now I just sit around the fire and sip a warm brandy.
Sound advice! Well said. I like the modular idea. I’ve begun using my quilt for summer temps, but the moment the temps begin to drop, I go back to a bag. Not sure what my exact temperature range for a quilt is, but we will leave it at the one where you just need a blanket.
I’m sure a lot of people feel the same way. My son has struggled some staying warm with his custom quilt I spent a lot on. However, our EE Accomplice has been amazing for me and two kids, plenty warm, and so much lighter than 3 sleeping bags. I think for a lot of folks getting a wide quilt, those extra 6 inches, will make a huge difference.
I feel really confined in mummy and barrel bags, and couldn't find high-quality rectangular bags, so after a lot of research I bought a quilt, and it's working really well for me. Opening or closing the footbox gives it versatility, and in hot weather it's easier to push away than a bag - since your back is trapping the bag in place on one side. Mine's rated to 20F; the coldest I've slept in is 6C (43F) but I was toasty. I find it comfortable in a much wider range of temperatures than any bag I've used. I haven't had a problem with air drafts (mine's a UGQ, and has a number of optional anti-draft features). But to be fair I tend not to move much in my sleep, and the times I have tossed and turned have not been really cold nights. I can see that they might not work for everyone or in all conditions, but for me it's been fantastic so far.
I have a scoop, one can empty the back of a synthetic sleeping bag from its filling. And possibly put the air mat in if the bag is large enough. You end up with a quilt that has a zipper, and no strap problems
For cold weather I'm 100% with you on a sleeping bag for ground sleeping. I have lots of quilts and a couple sleeping bags. In a hammock, under and top quilts are my go to. For ground sleeping quilts are nice in warmer weather especially if you get the type that convert to a blanket. All that said as soon as it gets really cold I want my whole body covered if I'm sleeping on the ground. Usually I stuff my summer down quilt inside of a 3 season synthetic bag, paired with an insulated sleeping pad and, I'm toasty in really cold weather.
I have three quilts. I really want a western mountaineering -10. The quilt I pair up with a bivy bag and a light weight synthetic blanket. Have been winter camping with it and it helps me with the claustrophobia of a bag and I still stay very warm. Granted I’m carrying more than a standard bag, I never got into quilts to save weight just comfort ability to move around. The bivy keeps out the drafts and the synthetic blanket helps manage moisture.
I’m a stomach sleeper that had a tendency to move around during the night. I used mummy bags for the longest time because I wasn’t online and didn’t realize there was an alternative. Now that I’ve switched to a quilt I sleep so much better. I’m using the zen bivy which does a good job of solving a lot of the issues that quilts have. It’s not perfect and is heavier than most quilts, but they are coming out with an ultralight version sometime in 2024. Also, you still have much more freedom of movement from a strapped quilt with a draft collar than most bags.
I have found that a larger sleeping pad solves the draft issue really well. the 65 cm sleeping pads are just too narrow if your sleeping bag doesn't keep you in a burrito. I am currently working on a custom mat that will fit my triangular 1person + dog tent floor. With that I will be able to take the dog under the quilt when it is really cold, removing the need for extra dog gear and giving me a nice little extra heater.
Comfort means more than saving weight. I know the world doesn't seem to want to hear this, and there's 1,021,390 videos here on TH-cam dedicated to helping you shave as much weight as possible, but I'm here to tell you the truth: Comfort is key.
My two cents is: UGQ 20f quilt was to combine (inside) with a nemo disco. Works toasty for me down to -19 celsius dressed in light wool, on R6.2 pad. Under a Silwing to block wind with a trek pole (3kg for -19C). Pending weather, gear and environment, I'll carry a light synthetic 500 gram modified quilt for top cover. Nothings perfect, more flexability equals more stuff. Humid -9C down bag is cold at 15 celsius on day three, etc. That's the adventure and skill part. Good Clip, Thanks
Similar experience here. When I'm on the ground (and not in a hammock), I use a FF Vireo. 16oz, 25 deg with a jacket (which I already bring), and most important, no attached hood. Hat or balaclava instead. No drafts, no pad cords, no straps, and lighter than a quilt. Also check out the FF Tanager, which doesn't require as large a jacket as the Vireo.
I have a 30° quilt that I used on a PCT section hike in the Sierra in a few years ago in AUGUST. Temps got down to 40°, and as a cold sleeper I was glad that I had also brought along down pants! I would have been miserable in the Sierra at a typical thru hike date as I know it would’ve been much colder. I live in Florida and that quilt is perfect even in our cooler weather, but when I thru hike the PCT next year I think I will be taking a bag. This was a great video!
Oh man, if someone is a cold sleeper they should for sure not go with a quilt. I think you’re spot on about your game plan. Quilts when it’s hot and bags when it’s cool. If I were going back to the PCT I’d be using a bag for sure. Also, jealous you’re going back!! Have so much fun!
After researching quilts and deciding to stick with a sleeping bag, of course I had to watch this video! Maybe they work for people who camp at lower elevations in warm Julys and Augusts but I was looking for lightweight and warm in the mountains. I landed on the Thermarest Parsec 20F/-6C which has reduced the filling on the bottom side but still has all things I want like a zipper and a hoodie and draft collar that can be sinched. I love being cocooned and the straps keep the bag in place while I roll over at night. In prepping my kit for the Pyrenees, I started obsessed about dropping grams but keep coming back to the reality that I already have good gear that I know works for me and want to be comfortable. And, I'm not trying for +30km days! I can drop my pack to bag peaks as well. It would cost a lot to replace all my lightweight gear with ultralight options so after buying a Toaks 650 titanium pot, I'm done!
This makes my day! I think you’ve made a very wise and reasonable choice. No sense in chasing grams if you’re already happy and don’t need to. That’s awesome! Also, I’m a bit jealous of you’re hike in the Pyranees!
The coldest that I've sent in a quilt was down to -35⁰ F, layering a convert custom and a Hammock Gear Burrow without issue. I'm a pretty heavily leaning winter hiker, and have slept in some very cold temperatures. Actually, I tried my down bag rated down to -26⁰ in -20⁰ Temps and I froze due to compression on the side of the bag.; not an issue with my quilts. Quilts have worked much better for me in cold, and warm, weather.
I find in my down sleeping bag rolling from my back to my side, I have crushed the insulation by laying on it, making a big cold spot. The solution would be a much heavier synthetic sleeping bag, or a top quilt. Now I use a mummy pad, with my quilt tucked under the pad for ZERO cold spots due to it lifting as I roll. My next buy will be a Zen Bivvy me thinks....
After using a sleeping bag as a quilt for 20 years and almost never zipping it up I purchased an extra wide EE quilt and have never slept warmer. For me and many others sleeping bags are very confining and the static placement of the hood just doesn't work when it's being used as a quilt or when zipped up and tossing and turning. I really think individual sleep style, correct quilt/bag, pad , etc... has everything to do with your quality of sleep so experimentation and experience are key. I also think the 8 to 10 ounce weight savings I experienced is pretty significant when I lightened up a lot of my other gear too. It really starts to add up.
Gram weenies spend so much time shaving off a few grams here and there just show the rest of us that their packs weigh less than ours but all the while they add back the weight in down booties, extra sock, pullovers etc. to keep them warm from the quilts they bought which don't have a bottom or zippers. Emory, you made some really valid points that quilt lovers probably didn't consider when they first transitioned over to the minimalist sleeping option. I looked at both when I decided to cut some weight and bulk off of my 3 lb. FF Penguin bag. I just bought another Feathered Friends bag but this time I got the Wide Flicker Sleeping Bag/Quilt Combo and LOVE it! I have the best of both worlds now and can even snap and drawstring the top shut, unzip the front zipper and leave open for my face similar to a mummy. The bottom foot box also can drawstring shut so I'm toasty warm, if I want to be. I can also unzip all the way open and just have a nice 20 degree down quilt over me as a blanket. 😁
@@kke You should know if you are a gram weenie or not. I said, "Gram weenies..." and did not say ALL quilt users are gram weenies. If you take offense to my comment, then own up to the fact that you are one. ALL gram weenies backpack with quilts but not ALL quilt users are gram weenies. Hopefully, I made myself more clear to you. What temperature rating is your quilt? My sleeping bag/quilt is rated for 20F.
I also run the Kuiu 30 degree bag. I tend to sleep hot and often sleep with it unzipped (quilt style) but it’s nice to have the insurance of containing body heat.
Decades ago before I heard of quilts I started using my mummy bag as a quilt. When the weather get colder I zip it up part way or all the way depending on conditions. To me it is the best of both worlds! 6 ounces.....big deal.
It you want more space the Nemo Disco is designed for that. 15 degree works well for most occasions. I flip flop sides with no issues and im 6’2 / 215lbs. If you do one of those complicated Zenbivy “sleep systems” it weighs about the same so I don’t get the hype. I think the only reason to do a quilt is if you’re trying to fit it all in a Jansport book bag 😂. Glad to hear your review as I’ve always thought about the heat loss when moving around.
I'm getting into hammock camping. I have a foamie under me and my "Arctic Tiger" blanket on top (just a blanket I bought at a yard sale). I'm so comfortable! I'll add an under-quilt this winter. It goes underneath the hammock so it doesn't get compressed. Jeez! I having so much fun with my life :D
I find here in the Midwest that a bag can be way to hot but I didn’t like the traditional open quilt. But Zpacks has a great middle of the road, a full zip quilt (a mummy bag less the hood) that I love for 3 season BP trips. But I 100% agree take the gear that works for the trip, your preferences & weather conditions. One size gear doesn’t work on every trip.
Love using my 20 degree quilt for long hikes (60-200 miles) in summer with thermarest xlite. Mummy bag for short winter hikes 3-20 miles with xtherm pad. I have use my quilt in winter once and it was fine but it was at max 30 degrees. So a bit warmer! This year I took the quilt out and it was like 24 and it was cold af. Haha!
totally agree, has to be at least 40F at the coldest point in the morning for me to be comfortable in my 30F quilt(which in Carpathians narrows the use only to July and August) , anything colder, which means 10 other months sleeping bag only
I ran an enigma for about 300 miles of trail. I love the packability but ultimately I had the same problem as you. On cold nights I just couldn’t keep it close enough to my body to keep warm. Even with the pad straps. I’m a big guy, it’s hard for me to find a sleeping back I can actually zip up past my armpits because my shoulders are too wide. So a quilt in theory is the way to go for me. But it just doesn’t work well if it’s cold. And if it’s not cold, I don’t need it anyway lol. So I agree with you. Quilts are a great idea and are easily packed. But ultimately when you need them, they fall short. Your not alone lol.
Always good to see both sides of an argument when making a decision :) however when I made the switch from bag to quilt, it seemed to me like most pro-quilt videos were always quick to pointed out the draft issue, and how it was really a 3 season thing. And that, for cold weather, a bag is a must One product I've seen that's probably best of both worlds is a "quilt" that's basically a sleeping bag (with hood) with a fabric back that can stretch around your pad so it stays in place. Seems like the best of both worlds
When switching from my hammock to the ground, I ditch the Quilt for the Sierra Designs Cloud just for the reasons you had. It is very similar to a quilt but also has the sides that stay tucked under you. I tend to roll around a little more when I am on a pad vs. the hammock and the design of the Cloud keeps it attached to the pad so I don't get that puff a cold air. Jeff
I have had the same sleeping bag my entire life, and it was a hand me down. 0 degree down bag, and it's still amazing. But I never liked how restrictive it was and how heavy it was. I'm kicking myself now for not realizing I could just unzip it and use it as a quilt/blanket. Since I've started doing that I've been sleeping so much better in the backcountry. But it's still to heavy, so that's why I'm shopping for a quilt. I've, kinda, tried quilts, and for me, they're a lot better.
I've been using a ajungilak mammut tundra summer sleeping bag for over ten years . It's synthetic and I know from experience it will keep me warm even when damp . Chuck in the washing machine with some nikwax tech wash and it comes out like new and with improved water repellence . If it's hot I can even open the zip full length and use it as a quilt .
Quilts work well for me. I've been sleeping with blankets and quilts (once they arrived) for many years. *BUT:* I agree 100% with your position about being open minded and questioning (gear) decisions.
Great video on why someone may want the bag over quilt. I’ll throw in my own two cents. As a heftier individual who tosses and turns and side sleeps, the typical mummy felt so constraining and claustrophobic. I got my quilt for rim-to-rim Grand Canyon backpacking and it worked very well. I’ll agree the idea of switching just to switch is silly, and the weight benefits of the quilt might not be that meaningful, particularly as you get into colder temps. Even with pad straps, the quilt just feels better, less claustrophobic. I think that’s probably a better reason (imho) than saving some ounces. That said, bags probably work fine for most.
If I want a quilt, I'll unzip my bag. I do it all the time in warmer weather. When it's cold, it's zipped up around my face. I use a pad with convoluted holes so the bottom does add insulation. Not the most comfortable, but when it's cold, I mainly want to keep from freezing.
I have over 20 years experience hiking and backpacking. My opinion on Quilts (and other popular alternatives to traditional gear like trailrunners) is, that they are great alternative options for experienced hikers with very special requirements. But I would argue, that they are much harder to use and the risk of sleeping poorly is much higher. But some people really want to have more room to move, less weight, the ability to combine their quilt with another quilt or sleeping bag etc. For any beignner I would always recommend to start with a sleeping bag and maybe try some alternatives after a few years.
If you have a quilt that goes 10C deg below your sleepwear temp and a bag that goes 20C below your sleepwear temp, then you have a 3 level sleep system for 10, 20 or 30 deg below your sleepwear temp. You can put a zippered head slip across the quilt to turn it into a poncho & if you tie the long edges together down the middle & put a belt around it, it becomes an extremely warm double layer tabard that excludes drafts from the neck area. You still need to cover your arms with something like a fleece jacket. But the tabard replaces a long coat & has better freedom of movement than a long coat. You can even sleep in your bag & quilt in tabard mode which is even more incredably warm as long as you have your extremities covered. You just need to be able to do some very basic sewing, if you can do basic field repairs, you can do this.
Good solid info here. Over quilts work best for hammocks period, the foot box keeps the quilt in place and your feet warm while the under quilt keeps ypur backside warm. There is honestly no weight or space savings with an over quilt because you always need an under quilt as well. Hammock=quilt+under quilt. Ground=pad+sleeping bag.
For me, quilt in warm weather and bag in cold weather. It's not really weight why I use one. It's comfort, and you're right: in lower ambient temperatures no matter how many straps I whack on there's still occasionally air vented out. I've thought of myog'ing a section of material with no insulation to a quilt, effectively making a bivvy/quilt hybrid. Whack my pad in, nice and baggy so the quilt is still loose on me.
For me quilt is good for summer. Other seasons always sleeping bag. I use straps on my quilt, although at warmer nights i release top strap. Draft can be a problem but since i use liner bag for both sleeping systems it doesn't bother me so much. Colder nights i also wear long underwear so maybe quarter of warmth comes anyways from other sources than just sleeping bag or quilt. I think weight saving isn't much with quilt, since with it i need warmer sleeping pad. Although my quilt takes less than half of space compared to my bag. Both are useful in right circumstances, but if someone is going to buy just one always go for bag.
The fabric under you in a sleeping bag is not useless, it keeps drafts from coming in. You can partially solve that by using a sleeping bag liner. Or like me, just use a proper quilt setup, like the Quechua sleep-in :) Edit: 100€ for the pad and quilt combo
Same experience here, I had a Sea to Summit ember ll, and was freezing cold..I realised that we have mummy shaped bags because they are warmer due to cutting down excess space between you and the bag meaning less space to warm and keep warm. Quilts being strapped to the mat increase space between you and the cover ! !
I’m a stomach/side sleeper so quilts were attractive to me. I aimed for higher comfort in the cold by buying an extra wide quilt so I can strap it to itself on cold nights. Otherwise it just lays open. The inner of my tent actually keeps it cradled around me so that’s another way it works. But yeah, I dropped the pad straps.
Thank you! I'm pretty grounded and comments like this always help me stay on track. My ONLY care in the world is how others get to experience the outdoors and I hope I can be a small players in that.
Im a side sleeper and bags were never comfortable, switched to quilt and get much better rest at night. One caveat; snow and freezing temps I take a the bag.
You need a high R value sleeping pad. Get a large quilt and use the straps to keep it on the warmer pad. My problem is the pillow sliding off. I’ve been looking into the ZenBivy sleep system. Its the same weight as my current set up. But check it out, I’m curious to hear your opinion on the ZenBivy
Oh I’m sure I can fix the issue with those suggestions but they counteract the weight savings of a quilt. Since I personally don’t mind a bag, I’d rather not fix what’s not broken. More R value + larger warmer quilt = weight increase
I am considering a quilt. But not in the sense that most think. I would like a quilt for like 35°f or maybe 40°f and this would work well for warmer. Nights…. And then if I go out in the more winter months and use my sleeping bag…. I could use this quilt as a blanket to drape over my sleeping bag to help gain a bit more warmth….
I think most UL hikers just cover their bodies with a combination of Dynema, Smartwater bottles and cut-in-half toothbrushes while wearing a full merino wool union suit, down hoodie and a pair of athletic shorts they bought in the girls department at Goodwill.
hahaha!
I always wondered what they did with the other half of their toothbrushes
@@splashpit they put them in a corner and shame them for being useless dead weight. They call them fat and stupid and otherwise degrade them.
lol
@@splashpit It's for "sexy time."
I'm not an ultralighter by any means.. but if you are a person that hate sleepingbags b/c they're so restrictive, then a couple of straps isn' even close to being the same. Much easier to change sides for a side sleeper such as my self. I always used bags like quilts anyways, and I know many who did the same. So it's more like free weight for us!
Fair enough! Thanks for the input!
my thoughts as well, the two straps that attach to your pad only keep the quilt on top and centered, but do nothing to restrict your actual movement underneath the quilt. I'll admit it took a LOT of adjustment to figure out how to get comfortable with the quilt but once I did I slept like a baby out there. I don't see myself ever going back to a sleeping bag unless I'm snow camping in really cold weather.
Open your bag and you have a quilt with safety of a bag
I usually clip the straps on one side of the quilt for anchor, leaving the other side open. Not constricting at all. But the straps aren’t weightless, lol.
I very much appreciate your comment. It's funny how people who make videos like this never mention how they sleep. I am also a side sleeper and I absolutely hate the constrictiveness of a bag, especially a mummy bag. So yeah, I also butterfly my bag but have been seriously considering picking up one of those Paria quilts. They appear to be great for the price.
I definitely prefer quilting when it’s above freezing out.
Below freezing I always want a bag.
Agreed
I would definitely think this is where quilts would excel is warmer weather when a accidental vent is not deleterious and you might want to hang a limb out to cool off.
I sleep very hot so bags have always been kinda a hard go for me unless it's fall or later or the nights are really cool.
I personally prefer a sleeping bag. If it’s warm, I just completely open it up and use it like a quilt. When it’s cold, I use it as advertised. Best of both worlds!!!!! 😎
👊🏼👊🏼👊🏼
I do the same thing!
100%!! Yep I went back to a bag and love it. Still love a quilt in the right scenario though. Great video!
Thanks buddy, much appreciated! I think if I ever use a quilt again it would be a 40 degree and super light for those warmer nights.
how about Zinbivy?
You don’t know what you are talking about.
You just run to the nearest hotel.
I can’t wait to see you on the trip coming up. All signed up.
If its that warm just a simple lightweight blanket.
Right gear for the right job. I think too many people search for THE perfect piece of gear for all applications and it doesn't exist. :) New sub, good stuff!
Agreed! Thanks for being here!
Couldnt agree more. I us a kodiak canvas rectangular bag for drive up camp sites, and for actual backpacking I have down summer mummy and a winter synthetic mummy.
I have some of the same draft issues with EE quilts. Now that I have a Katabatic with elastic binding around the bottom, a catenary cut and differential cut baffles, drafts are eliminated. Attached to the pad, this keeps everything in place whereas a sleeping bag conforms (the restrictive feeling) to my body and slides around on the pad in weird ways for me.
The other big benefit of a quilt for me is the versatility of laying it out in warmer temps and then cinching it down when it is closer to its temp rating. I also factor in wearing mid and puffy layers to add warmth, so my 30F comfort rated quilt is effective from the mid 20s all the way up to the 50s.
Critical to the system is pad and head warmth. Unfortunately, I think a lot of folks have a bad experience with quilts because they don’t boost these elements of the system. A 1oz beanie in warmer weather or 2oz down balaclava when colder are more flexible than a fixed sleeping bag hood. And still lighter when paired with the 21oz quilt. If you sleep cold with an insulated pad like an xLite, then switch to a 4 season pad like an xtherm and you’ll notice the difference right away.
None of this is meant to argue your main point about objectivism. Absolutely, any piece of gear should be evaluated on its performance in different conditions, not because of marketing or popularity. Objectively, I prefer a quilt in those temp ranges because it is the most effective for me. ✌️
I really mean it when I say I want this channel to be a community of people who can offer up their experiences and opinions without fear of being taken the wrong way. I’m only one person who has only my experiences so can’t tell you how much I appreciate your thoughtful input based on yours.
We are all here to learn and I think you make some great points. I hope you stick around to do more of it!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences!
@@EmoryByLand Thank you for your openness and inviting words. Your podcast is refreshingly reflective and diverse and it feels like you bring your whole self to the content you put out in the world. Truly a “would like to hang out with that dude” in my book. Cheers Emory!
My pleasure! Thanks so much for the kind words. Maybe I'll see you out there one day!
Right on. Be blessed.
I love my quilt. I tend to get tangled and feel claustrophobic (even in a rectangular bag). The quilt needs to be wide enough to cut down on drafts. My first quilt was not wide enough and I was cold. My second quilt was a 10° EE Accomplice shared with my hubby and I was cold. I now have a 20° Thermarest Vesper quilt. It only weighs 19 ounces and I am warm now. For me this was a lesson in getting the thing you really want the first time lol. 2 Foot Adventures is great, my husband got a Lite AF pack from them last year.
Absolutely.
Awesome! Love 2 Foot!
I use the same quilt and I am very happy with it ........
I dont agree that the Thermarest Vesper quilt is really a quilt since it has a restive mummy shape.
With all due respect, I'm 6'4", broad-shouldered, backpacking for 40 years. NEVER found a mummy bag that was comfortable. I don't pack in sub-40 weather; looks like you do. To ward off the chill, I'll use the straps on my REI quilt, or wear long underwear top and bottom. I like movement, even throughout the night. Thanks for your review. Happy trails. Phil, Albuquerque
Been a long time BA 20° Lost Ranger Down sleeping bag lover. However as I started to looks at ways to cut weight a buddy had me try his quilt. Fell in love with it. For the longest time I would tolerate cold spots from my bag. I thought I was cold yet most of my body was warm. I soon deduced that as I rolled from one side to the other, the top shoulder and upper hip were compressing into the bag causing the down to lose its loft. Thus giving me a cold spot. A quilt is perfect for a side sleeper. To complete the sleep system I recommend the Thermarest NeoAir Xlite R/W Pad (the wide 25” is best), a Silk Cacoon (soft, comfy, add’l warmth), a pillow w/pillowcase or a buff puff. I find the Silk Cacoon does just that; cacoons you inside your quilt preventing any compression against the down which creates cold spots. It also reduces the risk of drafts, increases the overall R value, and puts a comfortable barrier between you and the sleeping pad. Win, win, win! Quilt wins! 😝
Well said! Thanks for sharing your experience!
Fair enough and I'm happy you have the system that works for you.
But you say you got cold spots where you compressed the sleeping bag. You shouldn't get any more cold spots from a compressed sleeping bag than you would from having nothing there... That makes no sense.
@@jens-kristiantofthansen9376 It does make sense. In a sleeping back when you turn, the bag turns with you, and the part that was under you and compressed is now on top as a cold spot until it regains loft. In a quilt, you toss and turn and the quilt stays on top, never compressed. The pad is the same regardless, hopefully with a high enough R-value
@@asyakier I turn over inside my sleeping bag - I don't turn the sleeping bag with me.
To be fair, I mostly use my sleeping bag as a blanket and only zip it up if it's really cold.
Don't get me wrong, I do see the point but I've been put off quilts a little bit by a couple of factors:
1. A narrative came about in which, suddenly, it all had to be quilts. Quilts, quilts, quilts. I tend to have misgivings about that sort of thing. Hype is rarely a good recommendation.
2. The price of quilts. For some reason, a decent quilt usually sets you back twice as much as even a very good sleeping bag. There is no good reason why this should be the case other than hype.
With the sleeping bag I sort of get both options; I can use it as a sleeping bag or I can use it much the same as I would a quilt. The versatility is a positive for me. And for $400 I got a sleeping bag for which, if I had wanted the equivalent quilt, I'd have had to pay $800.
These are definitely some valid points. I've definitely experienced similar problems but ultimately have found a solution that works for me which actually was as simple as using an extra-wide quilt. With an extra-wide, I can attach the sides of the quilt together and close off drafts really well while still having enough room to toss and turn. I really wish there were inexpensive quilts people could try out before purchasing. Most of the high-end quilts are upwards of $400. Even the more budget-friendly ones I make still cost a lot more than a cheap sleeping bag.
Interesting approach. Sounds like it works great for you. Thanks for tossing your solution out there!
And you carry that on backpacking trips or are you car camper?
Awesome job highlighting a different side of quilts. I've been backpacking for 24 years and with all of the videos about quilts, I feel like there really is "pressure" to change. But I love your arguments about losing the warm air if you adjust position through the night. I'll stick with my bag for the foreseeable future. Cheers!
Cheers!!!
What bag do u own?
I keep hearing about the weight savings for quilts but they normally only save a few ounces compared to a quality lightweight down bag at the cost of an integral hood and the bottom of the bag that traps heat. That is a steep price to pay for a few ounces. For those few extra ounces, I have the advantage of a quilt or a sleeping bag depending on temperatures. I can open up my bag and use it over me as a quilt without strapping it around me because the extra fabric compared to single purpose quilts allows the sleeping bag to drape on the ground sealing me from most drafts and without the constriction of quilt straps. I also tuck my feet into the footbox which doesn't feel too confining to me. But when the temps drop lower, up comes the zipper and the hood to warm me in a down cocoon. Less space to warm, no drafts from the side, and very easy to seal off drafts from the top with a draft collar or midlayer loosely wrapped around my neck. Very versatile system. Always tailored to my needs rather than tailoring my needs to a quilt.
Love it. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
This is exactly how I see it, too. Most of the time, I use my sleeping bag as a quilt with no need to strap anything. Temperatures change overnight so now and then at 4am, it's time to zip up and I can do that easily.
Don't get me wrong - I'm all for the option to have a quilt and that it's the right choice for some people but over the past couple of years particularly, the rhetoric has largely gone into hype territory where 'if you're not using a quilt, you're doing it wrong' has practically become the norm. And that's silly.
When you look at the product vs. the price, it is hard to justify why quilts tend to be so much more expensive and it appears to me that it's down to hype and very little else. Manufacturers found a way to manufacture an alternative sleeping bag (out of less material and simpler manufacture) at lower cost, and hyped it to sell it at a higher price point.
'Here's a sleeping bag... we remove the zipper.... and the hood.... and some of the material so it doesn't reach all the way around and... we increase the price.'
Completely agree with every single point here!
100% agreed. I got into UL a few years ago and went the same route. They are fine for spring and fall but I suffer the extra weight every time when the nights are below 40*F
Good to know I'm not alone!
Love my quilt. Not going back in the bag
Nice! Glad you found what works, that's all that matters!
Love my enlightened equipment 20 deg quilt. Got the wide version to ensure no drafts when on my side.
Interesting. Why did you go with a quilt? Weight savings or not being restricted?
I bought a 20 degree quilt when I had to replace an old sleeping bag. It's been nice, but when it's chilly, I end up cinching up the footbox and zipping up the quilt into a bag, one that doesn't have a hood. For the slight weight savings, it's not worth the downsides, so I'll be selling the quilt and getting a bag again, at least for colder temperatures.
Bingo. Glad to know I’m not alone!
While I do enjoy a sleeping quilt, I must admit its used during Spring through early fall climates low of 25 April/early May and a high of 75/80 “am/pm” not the middle of day temps. Winter camping changes my thoughts on gear used and definitely the sleeping system. Oct-March “sleeping bag” just my thoughts. Great content as always, have a great week every one…😉🤙🏽
Thanks for sharing!! It’s those fall experiences that made me realize all this.
I totally agree with you, I had the exact same experience with a quilt. I tried it off and on for 4 years before I finally completely gave up on it. I went back to a sleeping bag and I was comfortable again. I open my sleeping bag up, and drape it over me like a quilt in warmer weather and that works well. Since a sleeping bag is wider than a quilt, when it's opened up, you don't have the same draft issue that you have with a quilt, but you gain the freedom of movement many people seek.
Funny how it takes us so long to finally figure out something isn’t working! Thanks for sharing!
@@EmoryByLand The Quilt Community will gaslight you too, "User Error", "You're using it wrong", no they just suck. I didn't get the whole strap thing either, it made it so much more complicated.
@@josephjamison5007 You can be totally objective about your equipment, but really it's just your subjective at the end of the day. What works for you might not work for someone else and vice-versa. Dealing in absolutes like "quilts just suck" and "you're not using a quilt correctly" don't contribute the conversation at hand.
THANK you. I have not stayed warm in my quilt in the backcountry. Drafts here, drafts there, drafts everywhere. I just received a new sleeping bag that I think will be wonderful.
I do what I can!! 😂.
Let me know how it goes and if you see a difference at all.
So far, so much better with the bag. 🙂
Thank you for being the first to say all the things I've been thinking it would be like owning and sleeping with a quilt.
You’re welcome! 😂
Great idea but limited to back sleepers. I toss and turn as well as sleep on the ground.
I do a bit of both back and side sleeping so a bag works best for me. Thanks for chiming in!
Totally agree. Quilts are for WARM weather or for hammocks. The bottom of a sleeping bag is NOT useless. Not only does a bag trap the warm air inside, but the down insulation on the bottom helps keep you warm, even though some of it is compressed (it is not "all or nothing," and laying on top of a down layer is not the same as laying directly on your pad).
I really do think there are only 2 reasons, maybe 3, where a quilt makes the most sense. 1) when you HATE a bag, 2) it's summer weather, and 3).....maybe you want to cut weight? That last one still doesn't quite work for me though because there are plenty of bags out there that are SUPER light.
Thanks for chiming in!
Totally agree with the "be objective" advice. I'm still satisfied with my quilt for the type of backpacking I do, which is casual and usually warm weather. I have had it in the cold a few times and been fine with it. I am a side sleeper that switches sides a few times a night, and I still like the quilt because I can sort of tuck it in behind me under my shoulder. I have found with some bags that the round shape of the bag itself can sometimes make that hard, and then I have a draft on my back. I had the same issue when I tried pad straps with my quilt: they just pull the quilt off my back and make it colder.
That’s awesome you found what works for you. That’s literally what it’s all about!
Also, I love the phrase “casual backpacker.” It sounds balanced and sincere.
Thanks!
Great explanation of your experience. I personally have an EE quilt that I got for my hammock but swallowed the pill that it was the bees knees for all hiking. Always slept colder with it, still have to tie and cinch everything up like a bag in cooler weather so have upgraded to a bag again. Most bags zip half or the full way down anyway, and weight is negligible. In warmer weather I'll still take the bag now and use a lighter pad unless I'm back in the hammock
Sounds like there are far more of us than I originally thought!
You're absolutely right about the material under your body. Yes, it does get crushed, however that doesn't negate an insulating property. Here's what folks forget (or perhaps intentionally omit) in the quilt discussion (or the Big Agnes bag discussion): There are two types of thermal loss that we have to deal with. One is convection. That's the air moving past and pulling the heat of our bodies away. That's why a breeze feels better than no breeze on a hot day. It's also why the loft in our bags is so important that's above us (which is the whole quilt vs bag argument). However there's a second thermal consideration, and that's CONDUCTION. Thermal conduction is mitigated or enhanced by placing material between you and the thermal source. It can help to cool you by increasing conduction which acts like a heatsink, or it can reduce thermal conduction by placing a non-conductive material between two objects.
A fun and enlightening experience in thermal CONDUCTION. Find a hard, cool surface that you can lay down on, like a tile or concrete floor. Go on ahead and do that with your shirt on. Now do it with your shirt off. Pretty significant difference, right? Of course, and that t-shirt effectively has a zero R-value, yet there was a big delta in how much thermal transference occurred.
The same happens in our hammocks. Sure, an underquilt is great, but a pad under you is also great, and there may be times when you don't want any pad and could use that additional convection with minimal conduction insulation to keep you cool on a hot night. I happen to use a 'pod' system (a Hyke and Byke Antero bag). This allows the hammock to pass through, combining the underquilt and top quilt in a single bag which reduces a bunch of unnecessary material and size. Combined with a pad this gets me well into some very cold temperatures. Combined with a smaller down blanket (I use a Horizon Hound G-20), and my REI AIRRAIL Plus pad, I can get my 0F Antero bag, in a quilt down to 8F comfortably with headroom to go lower (and I'm a cold sleeper). The point isn't to advertise those products, even though they're great and are quite affordable, but to illustrate that very cold temperatures can be easily achieved in a hammock if one manages both CONVECTION and CONDUCTION in their sleep systems as appropriate for their conditions.
THIS IS AWESOME!!! Thanks for chiming in!
Quilts for me are all about weight, freedom of movement is second thought but I really appreciate it. I have used it 200 nights plus over a couple winter trips and mountaineering at 20000ft in the Andes and it has kept me warm even when fully damp.
I credit my use of a bivy bag (OR Interstellar) to this performance because it is an enclosed tiny space with minimal draft potential. So the combo of a UL quilt + UL shelter is what makes it work for me.
I made my own 0F quilt. It weights 1kg and it cost me about 230$, anything comparable in terms of weight and warmth is about 800$+
That’s an interesting combination. Thanks for sharing!
i am interessted how ouy made your 0f quilt
If your putting a quilt in a bivy bag you basically making a sleeping bag so i dont think your point is valid when comparing the 2. for people using a tent a quilt will suck in the cold
@@doro.wiediger with UL fabric and down :) I just checked videos on TH-cam to see what sizing and all
@@luc1ferblack no, a bivy bag replaces a tent or hammock. I could sleep outside with just the quilt and sleeping pad
I'm with you on this I tried a quilt and whilst OK for kinda good weather when really cold is not an issue for everything else I take the bag every time.
great vid. as a backpacker with 35 yrs experience i will totally agree. i do like quilts as theres a season for everything but a great quilt does not replace a great sleeping bag. thanks for that
Thanks so much! Glad you liked it!
Solid explanation. I hiked the PCT 18' with a DIY quilt that I made, knowing about these drafts I made the quilt extra wide (64" wide) so I could combat moving around and not getting cold air underneath. I hiked the entire trail with that quit and honestly didn't have issues. Luckily I sleep warm. But, I will say I still prefer a sleeping bag - they make bags out there just as lightweight. I recently picked up a Western Mountaineering 32 Summerlite, which it's only 19 oz! I mean it's a no brainer to use this bag over a quilt. Personally I think a quilt shines when you are trying to save space such as when bike packing. There's not as much real estate on a bike so having bulky items is aways the crux. Anyway great video.
Andy
Well said!
Thanks for your video. However, i would like to ask you what kind off sleeping pad are you using? You should point out to your audience that the sleeping pad is EXTREMELY important in maintaining heat, ESPECIALLY if you use a quilt, (iny experience). For example, i have a foam sleeping pad, AND a very thin (5 cm) mummy inflatable sleeping pad that i use with a aegismax wind hard quilt and it's been great (even down to less than 0C). But if i use it without the foam pad it will be cold. I also have 2 different foam pads that i use interchangeably depending on the weather. One, a full length (190cm) full width (70cm) foam pad, and a second, cut up foam pad (50cm width, 165 length) and here again, i can detect a difference in warmth in colder situations. In short, while i appreciate your suggestion to ask ourselves why we do things, i did not hear advice to your audience, (which inexperienced hikers i think should hear this) that quilts require a good sleeping pad system for cold weather use. Otherwise,they don't work as intended.
Great point and I agree fully that the pad makes a huge difference regardless of if it’s a quilt or a bag.
I use an insulated pad from Klymit.
All info is important, although I would guess that people who are serious enough about it to regularly hike and sleep in colder temps are well aware of the exaggerated - but bona fide - role that R-value plays in a pad.
To be honest, though, most people will never sleep in temps cold enough that a decent R-value is needed, unless it's by accident. I counsel them that - when it comes to comfort - it's more important to go thicker and wider, especially if you can't guarantee that you will sleep on your back all night. And you can get 3" thick, 25" wide pads with R-values of 1.3-1.8 all day for about $30-$40.
Not that I have a quilt but on warmer nights I often zip open the top of my bag and use it "quilt style". Very comfortable and makes changing position easy.
Great point! Exactly why I haven’t switched. But I do find mummy bags way to restrictive. So I have a Nemo bag, which works great for me.
A great way to solve the issue! How do you like that bag?
@@EmoryByLand Love the Nemo bag!!! Very innovative!!!
Yeah. Same here. But if I'm hiking, rectangular ones at a decent weight and warmth are pretty limited. But I can't fit in most regular mummy bags now, so I invested in a brand that makes larger mummy bags. It's a bag used by European military in some places that still comes in at about 3.5# for a 20-degree. I can't recall the brand, but Outdoor Gear Review did a review on it in the last year or so as a great value bag, so if you're interested feel free to check that out. It adds a few inches in the shoulders, which helps me tremendously.
I tend to move a lot while sleeping. When camping in cold conditions I always use the elastic cords with my quilt. They stick the quilt to the mat no matter what dance I do while I am sleeping. And by the way, the warm air stays in and the cold one, out.
Nice. Sounds like you have a set up that matches how you sleep. Thanks for sharing!
I couldn't agree more. I live in Norway and I love using quilts in the summer, but not during winter.
Good to know!
Definitely not for everybody - in general i find that people who sleep warm, doesnt move much while they sleep - and perhaps most side and especially stomach sleepers (like me) - and people who perhaps find sleeping bags constrictive - those are the ones who should try a quilt - weight is not the reason, amount you might save is in the few grams - not worth compromising sleep comfort for. I have been using a quilt for 10ish years and love it - almost never use padstraps as i am a very "quite" stomach sleeper who can tug the quilt under my arms/body eliminating the issue you mention with air circulation - but the only real reason i see for trying a quilt if you already have a sleeping bag is for comfort
A solid take on the topic, thanks!
Very good advise. I’ve been on the fence and am not willing to purchase. Would love to “try” one sometime and now maybe not. My bag unzips all of the way on one side, partially on the other and the foot box unzips. I love that. It’s a 25 degree bag, I do not sleep cold and have been comfortable in it from 15-80 degrees.
No sense fixing what’s not broken, right?
Good video! I think everything depends from your goals. I use zenbivy system (25 and 10 degrees ) in spring/summer season. I works great and super comfortable. When temperature down below 15 degrees I use bags (western mountaineering ). It works great earthier but not super comfy like quilts.
Thanks for sharing!
Wow. What an eye opener!
👀🙌🏼🙌🏼
Your points are well made. Quilts over sleeping bags have almost become an orthodoxy amongst serious hikers. I’ve always disliked the restrictive feeling of sleeping bags, particularly mummy bags. I’m a side sleeper and tend to run hot at night so would open up sleeping bags like a quilt. I eventually moved over to quilts. For two or three season weather in northern latitudes quilts are a better choice for me. However, for winter trekking or hiking, I don’t think I’d risk a quilt - better a down mummy bag with guaranteed warmth no matter how restrictive. Besides, I dislike the fiddle nature of the quilt straps and cords - maybe it’s just me and I need to practice the setup more. And on the subject of equipment orthodoxy, merino first layers have people raving and indeed they are warm but the itch drives me crazy (that includes Smart Wool and Icebreaker products) and I have gone back to synthetics.
Great insight and perspective. Use the gear for the job and don’t get hung up on the orthodoxy, right?
Well said!
What does everything for me is my ksb 0° oversized sleeping bag it has stretch baffles to make room I think it's the best bag I've ever had and will never go back to a quilt that was a great video I totally agree with you keep up the good work
Thanks for sharing your experience and the kinds words!
I am a winter camper and canoe camper, so weight and volume are not a big consideration for me. i am either paddling, or pulling a sled, so the extra few ounces are inconsequential to me. like you, i am interested in trying new sleep system out of curiosity. i have read that the quilts are less restrictive for side sleepers like me. on a cold night, i would probably not rely solely on a quilt but for later summer/early fall, it can be a good choice. thanks for the video and for your candour. everything that you said made sense to me.
Thanks for the kind words and sharing your perspective!
Fwiw, I agree. And slpg bags are now as light as quilts or can be, can also be opened up like quilts. We now only use quilts travelling and in cars, never the backcountry anymore. Our S2S Sparks and Flames are putstanding products. To each their own but we always found our quilts (3 diff brands) ineffective for us too. Hopefully the Quiltstopo doesn’t overreact 🤣🤣😉
Thank you for this video!!! I've been back packing for only a couple years and I'm on a tight budget. I have a very comfy bag that I love, but I keep hearing all these influencers talk about quilts and I debate spending more money on a quilt...I think I'm good with my bag and when I get the extra money I'll probably try a quilt, but for now I'm good with the bag I have.
You’re welcome! Yeah, you don’t need a quilt just because someone is plugging one. If what you have works, stay the course and level up your gear somewhere else. Of course, it’s always fun to play around with different gear but for now, ion a budget, stay with what you have.
Thanks for watching!
My experience: I always used my sleeping bag as a quilt until I was in the market for a new bag. Went with quilt and I'm personally happy.
Obviously a personal decision. I got the widest quilt, and am able to close it up if needed. Big weight saving from an old bag, but modest saving from a comparably-priced bag.
Well said! Thanks for sharing!
I completely agree. I use a sleeping bag in a bivy, even in a tent. That allows me to retain body heat in the winter & gives me the option of sleeping on top of my bag with just the bivy fabric covering on hot nights. The bivy gives me the option of cowboy camping, keeping bugs at bay, when I don't want to set up the tent.
Thanks for sharing your setup!
I hammock camp for the most part , in a tent I still use a quilt. With a sleeping bag the layer under you does nothing but flattens out loosing all it's insulation. From that experience my sleeping bag was always unzipped and used as a semi quilt. I use a Therm-a-rest full length mummy style self inflating air mattress in the Hammock. It's 1/2 to 3/4 inflated so it conformers to my body and the hammock at the same time. The mattress offers insulation for my backside while the quilt offers warmth for the top. Most of the time the foot box is not attached so it becomes a large blanket when in the hammock. A real quilt does not have zippers to stick you and I find they are a lot more comfortable. I gave my sleeping bags away and only use the quilts.
Thanks for chiming in!
I’ve a sleeping pad with vertical baffles and i get a minor draft of air going along with the baffles and under my body. In the summer it’s great because I can use my sleeping bag as a quilt and I’ll get lots of ventilation.
Three season use I zip it up to waist height. Winter I have to close it fully because otherwise i get cold spots between my body and the pad.
The sleeping bag’s down fills the baffles. It’s absolute not useless.
It also prevents drafts greatly. And the hood is often missing from quilts. I have a beanie, a neck buff and a ski mask if I need the warmth, but excel for winter I end up not using those because the hood is just perfect.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
Thank you! I thought I was the only one. I greatly prefer a sleeping bag unless I am in a hammock.
You’re not alone!
I use a large fleece blanket. It packs down smaller and lighter than a sleeping bag, is very warm and deals well with being wet - any moisture just moves to the outside surface of the blanket (which is cooler than the warm fluffy inside). It came in a tough plastic bag and the same can be used to pack it down compactly inside and keep it waterproof during carrying and storage. It's not as simple to use in the dark as a zip bag, especially in a hammock, but it's never been a problem.
Interesting take on a bag. Thanks for chiming in!
From what I’ve seen, a lot of quilters use the under quilt in a hammock. Maybe that makes more sense? I dunno. I have a cheap pad in a hammock with a super old down bag and am good to 25. My buddy used a quilt in a bivy sack but he has a 4” or so thick sleeping pad and the quilt is strapped to the pad. I think your assessment of “test it if you like it, but don’t become too attached to an idea” is pretty correct!!!
I think the hammock and quilt with under quilt combo makes sense.
You mentioned, When it's cold. What is a cold temperature where you travel? I do use a quilt as part of my Morular Sleep System. My outer shell is a under one pound bivy bag with a waterproof bottom and breathable top. Next in goes my sleeping pad followed by a bag liner only for warm summer nights. when the temperature dops to the 40's I will add a one pound down quilt over me When the temp drops below 32 f 0 C . I can fold the quilt in half with half under me and the other half on top. In summer weather 70F and above I sleep in my shorts and under shirt in the bivy bag. When the temp starts dropping closer to 0C I switch to my Nyja suite of poly pro bottoms and Moreno long sleeve tops and alpaca socks and a one pound, down hooded jacket. The zipped up Bivy traps the warm body heat and expels the body vapor. I never sleep with my exposed body on the sleeping pad. I have spent a lot of my life traveling by foot, bike Kayak and canoe,. I really have never had a problem keeping warm. When the temp is reaches zero Freiheit down to minus 20, I will add one more module to the system, a mid weight sleeping bag. I'm a big believer in Bring What You Need, not what the manufacturer or books say you need. We all have a different comfort range depending on our experiences with cold temp ranges. I have been known in my younger days of bring along a 400 page book. Now I just sit around the fire and sip a warm brandy.
Sound advice! Well said. I like the modular idea.
I’ve begun using my quilt for summer temps, but the moment the temps begin to drop, I go back to a bag. Not sure what my exact temperature range for a quilt is, but we will leave it at the one where you just need a blanket.
I’m sure a lot of people feel the same way. My son has struggled some staying warm with his custom quilt I spent a lot on. However, our EE Accomplice has been amazing for me and two kids, plenty warm, and so much lighter than 3 sleeping bags. I think for a lot of folks getting a wide quilt, those extra 6 inches, will make a huge difference.
Going wide seems to be a common thread. Thanks for the input!
I feel really confined in mummy and barrel bags, and couldn't find high-quality rectangular bags, so after a lot of research I bought a quilt, and it's working really well for me. Opening or closing the footbox gives it versatility, and in hot weather it's easier to push away than a bag - since your back is trapping the bag in place on one side. Mine's rated to 20F; the coldest I've slept in is 6C (43F) but I was toasty. I find it comfortable in a much wider range of temperatures than any bag I've used.
I haven't had a problem with air drafts (mine's a UGQ, and has a number of optional anti-draft features). But to be fair I tend not to move much in my sleep, and the times I have tossed and turned have not been really cold nights. I can see that they might not work for everyone or in all conditions, but for me it's been fantastic so far.
Thanks for sharing and the perspective! I love it when gear works out.
Happy trails!
I have a scoop, one can empty the back of a synthetic sleeping bag from its filling. And possibly put the air mat in if the bag is large enough. You end up with a quilt that has a zipper, and no strap problems
I don’t think that works… you’d have to cut the baffles but… the idea make sense!
For cold weather I'm 100% with you on a sleeping bag for ground sleeping. I have lots of quilts and a couple sleeping bags. In a hammock, under and top quilts are my go to. For ground sleeping quilts are nice in warmer weather especially if you get the type that convert to a blanket. All that said as soon as it gets really cold I want my whole body covered if I'm sleeping on the ground. Usually I stuff my summer down quilt inside of a 3 season synthetic bag, paired with an insulated sleeping pad and, I'm toasty in really cold weather.
I kind of do the same with the double bag thing, but instead just use puffy pants and a puffy jacket. Very similar approach that works!
I have three quilts. I really want a western mountaineering -10. The quilt I pair up with a bivy bag and a light weight synthetic blanket. Have been winter camping with it and it helps me with the claustrophobia of a bag and I still stay very warm. Granted I’m carrying more than a standard bag, I never got into quilts to save weight just comfort ability to move around. The bivy keeps out the drafts and the synthetic blanket helps manage moisture.
That’s awesome you found what works for you. Thanks for sharing your setup!
I’m a stomach sleeper that had a tendency to move around during the night. I used mummy bags for the longest time because I wasn’t online and didn’t realize there was an alternative. Now that I’ve switched to a quilt I sleep so much better. I’m using the zen bivy which does a good job of solving a lot of the issues that quilts have. It’s not perfect and is heavier than most quilts, but they are coming out with an ultralight version sometime in 2024.
Also, you still have much more freedom of movement from a strapped quilt with a draft collar than most bags.
That's great you found something that works for you! That's the ONLY thing that matters!
I have found that a larger sleeping pad solves the draft issue really well. the 65 cm sleeping pads are just too narrow if your sleeping bag doesn't keep you in a burrito. I am currently working on a custom mat that will fit my triangular 1person + dog tent floor. With that I will be able to take the dog under the quilt when it is really cold, removing the need for extra dog gear and giving me a nice little extra heater.
interesting! Thanks for the perspective!
Comfort means more than saving weight. I know the world doesn't seem to want to hear this, and there's 1,021,390 videos here on TH-cam dedicated to helping you shave as much weight as possible, but I'm here to tell you the truth: Comfort is key.
Amen!
My two cents is: UGQ 20f quilt was to combine (inside) with a nemo disco. Works toasty for me down to -19 celsius dressed in light wool, on R6.2 pad. Under a Silwing to block wind with a trek pole (3kg for -19C). Pending weather, gear and environment, I'll carry a light synthetic 500 gram modified quilt for top cover. Nothings perfect, more flexability equals more stuff. Humid -9C down bag is cold at 15 celsius on day three, etc. That's the adventure and skill part. Good Clip, Thanks
Nice, thanks for the input!
Similar experience here. When I'm on the ground (and not in a hammock), I use a FF Vireo. 16oz, 25 deg with a jacket (which I already bring), and most important, no attached hood. Hat or balaclava instead. No drafts, no pad cords, no straps, and lighter than a quilt. Also check out the FF Tanager, which doesn't require as large a jacket as the Vireo.
Copy that!!
I have a 30° quilt that I used on a PCT section hike in the Sierra in a few years ago in AUGUST. Temps got down to 40°, and as a cold sleeper I was glad that I had also brought along down pants! I would have been miserable in the Sierra at a typical thru hike date as I know it would’ve been much colder. I live in Florida and that quilt is perfect even in our cooler weather, but when I thru hike the PCT next year I think I will be taking a bag. This was a great video!
Oh man, if someone is a cold sleeper they should for sure not go with a quilt. I think you’re spot on about your game plan. Quilts when it’s hot and bags when it’s cool.
If I were going back to the PCT I’d be using a bag for sure. Also, jealous you’re going back!! Have so much fun!
After researching quilts and deciding to stick with a sleeping bag, of course I had to watch this video! Maybe they work for people who camp at lower elevations in warm Julys and Augusts but I was looking for lightweight and warm in the mountains. I landed on the Thermarest Parsec 20F/-6C which has reduced the filling on the bottom side but still has all things I want like a zipper and a hoodie and draft collar that can be sinched. I love being cocooned and the straps keep the bag in place while I roll over at night. In prepping my kit for the Pyrenees, I started obsessed about dropping grams but keep coming back to the reality that I already have good gear that I know works for me and want to be comfortable. And, I'm not trying for +30km days! I can drop my pack to bag peaks as well. It would cost a lot to replace all my lightweight gear with ultralight options so after buying a Toaks 650 titanium pot, I'm done!
This makes my day! I think you’ve made a very wise and reasonable choice. No sense in chasing grams if you’re already happy and don’t need to. That’s awesome!
Also, I’m a bit jealous of you’re hike in the Pyranees!
The coldest that I've sent in a quilt was down to -35⁰ F, layering a convert custom and a Hammock Gear Burrow without issue. I'm a pretty heavily leaning winter hiker, and have slept in some very cold temperatures. Actually, I tried my down bag rated down to -26⁰ in -20⁰ Temps and I froze due to compression on the side of the bag.; not an issue with my quilts. Quilts have worked much better for me in cold, and warm, weather.
I find in my down sleeping bag rolling from my back to my side, I have crushed the insulation by laying on it, making a big cold spot. The solution would be a much heavier synthetic sleeping bag, or a top quilt. Now I use a mummy pad, with my quilt tucked under the pad for ZERO cold spots due to it lifting as I roll. My next buy will be a Zen Bivvy me thinks....
After using a sleeping bag as a quilt for 20 years and almost never zipping it up I purchased an extra wide EE quilt and have never slept warmer. For me and many others sleeping bags are very confining and the static placement of the hood just doesn't work when it's being used as a quilt or when zipped up and tossing and turning. I really think individual sleep style, correct quilt/bag, pad , etc... has everything to do with your quality of sleep so experimentation and experience are key. I also think the 8 to 10 ounce weight savings I experienced is pretty significant when I lightened up a lot of my other gear too. It really starts to add up.
That’s awesome it works for you. 👊🏼👊🏼👊🏼
Gram weenies spend so much time shaving off a few grams here and there just show the rest of us that their packs weigh less than ours but all the while they add back the weight in down booties, extra sock, pullovers etc. to keep them warm from the quilts they bought which don't have a bottom or zippers. Emory, you made some really valid points that quilt lovers probably didn't consider when they first transitioned over to the minimalist sleeping option. I looked at both when I decided to cut some weight and bulk off of my 3 lb. FF Penguin bag. I just bought another Feathered Friends bag but this time I got the Wide Flicker Sleeping Bag/Quilt Combo and LOVE it! I have the best of both worlds now and can even snap and drawstring the top shut, unzip the front zipper and leave open for my face similar to a mummy. The bottom foot box also can drawstring shut so I'm toasty warm, if I want to be. I can also unzip all the way open and just have a nice 20 degree down quilt over me as a blanket. 😁
Nice!
First you call quilt users gram weenies and then move on to say you wanted to shave grams and got a quilt and you like it.
@@kke You should know if you are a gram weenie or not. I said, "Gram weenies..." and did not say ALL quilt users are gram weenies. If you take offense to my comment, then own up to the fact that you are one. ALL gram weenies backpack with quilts but not ALL quilt users are gram weenies. Hopefully, I made myself more clear to you. What temperature rating is your quilt? My sleeping bag/quilt is rated for 20F.
I love my sleeping bags. No changes here😆👍
Thanks for the video!🙏
Thanks for checking it out!
I also run the Kuiu 30 degree bag. I tend to sleep hot and often sleep with it unzipped (quilt style) but it’s nice to have the insurance of containing body heat.
Yep! Can’t get that with a quilt!
Decades ago before I heard of quilts I started using my mummy bag as a quilt. When the weather get colder I zip it up part way or all the way depending on conditions. To me it is the best of both worlds! 6 ounces.....big deal.
Couldn't agree more. Zip...unzip...tadaaaa
I have and do the same thing. I never bought into the quilts.
It you want more space the Nemo Disco is designed for that. 15 degree works well for most occasions. I flip flop sides with no issues and im 6’2 / 215lbs. If you do one of those complicated Zenbivy “sleep systems” it weighs about the same so I don’t get the hype. I think the only reason to do a quilt is if you’re trying to fit it all in a Jansport book bag 😂. Glad to hear your review as I’ve always thought about the heat loss when moving around.
Great minds think alike! Interesting review on the Zenbivvy. I've heard a lot of great things but I prefer simple.
I'm getting into hammock camping. I have a foamie under me and my "Arctic Tiger" blanket on top (just a blanket I bought at a yard sale). I'm so comfortable! I'll add an under-quilt this winter. It goes underneath the hammock so it doesn't get compressed.
Jeez! I having so much fun with my life :D
Right on! Thanks for sharing!
I’m a side sleeper, I still prefer the quilt for most situations. -40 I’ll use a good bag combination :)
Nice. Glad you found what works best!
I find here in the Midwest that a bag can be way to hot but I didn’t like the traditional open quilt. But Zpacks has a great middle of the road, a full zip quilt (a mummy bag less the hood) that I love for 3 season BP trips. But I 100% agree take the gear that works for the trip, your preferences & weather conditions. One size gear doesn’t work on every trip.
I like that last part! Different gear for different trips!
LOL a good nights sleep for a good hike the next day is worth a pound to me!
Thank You for Your honest opinion that is alot truth...
Just doing my part! 👊🏼👊🏼
Love using my 20 degree quilt for long hikes (60-200 miles) in summer with thermarest xlite. Mummy bag for short winter hikes 3-20 miles with xtherm pad. I have use my quilt in winter once and it was fine but it was at max 30 degrees. So a bit warmer! This year I took the quilt out and it was like 24 and it was cold af. Haha!
Quilts for summer, bags for winter. Makes sense to me!
totally agree, has to be at least 40F at the coldest point in the morning for me to be comfortable in my 30F quilt(which in Carpathians narrows the use only to July and August) , anything colder, which means 10 other months sleeping bag only
Good to know. Thanks for the input!
I ran an enigma for about 300 miles of trail. I love the packability but ultimately I had the same problem as you. On cold nights I just couldn’t keep it close enough to my body to keep warm. Even with the pad straps. I’m a big guy, it’s hard for me to find a sleeping back I can actually zip up past my armpits because my shoulders are too wide. So a quilt in theory is the way to go for me. But it just doesn’t work well if it’s cold. And if it’s not cold, I don’t need it anyway lol. So I agree with you. Quilts are a great idea and are easily packed. But ultimately when you need them, they fall short. Your not alone lol.
Ha! Glad to hear I’m not crazy
Great job! Thank you Sir 👍
You bet!
Always good to see both sides of an argument when making a decision :) however when I made the switch from bag to quilt, it seemed to me like most pro-quilt videos were always quick to pointed out the draft issue, and how it was really a 3 season thing. And that, for cold weather, a bag is a must
One product I've seen that's probably best of both worlds is a "quilt" that's basically a sleeping bag (with hood) with a fabric back that can stretch around your pad so it stays in place. Seems like the best of both worlds
I’m a fan of whatever works the best!
When switching from my hammock to the ground, I ditch the Quilt for the Sierra Designs Cloud just for the reasons you had. It is very similar to a quilt but also has the sides that stay tucked under you. I tend to roll around a little more when I am on a pad vs. the hammock and the design of the Cloud keeps it attached to the pad so I don't get that puff a cold air. Jeff
I’ve heard great things about that one. Great idea!
I have had the same sleeping bag my entire life, and it was a hand me down. 0 degree down bag, and it's still amazing. But I never liked how restrictive it was and how heavy it was. I'm kicking myself now for not realizing I could just unzip it and use it as a quilt/blanket. Since I've started doing that I've been sleeping so much better in the backcountry. But it's still to heavy, so that's why I'm shopping for a quilt. I've, kinda, tried quilts, and for me, they're a lot better.
That’s great! I think you’re probably perfect for a quilt since you know you don’t like bags.
I've been using a ajungilak mammut tundra summer sleeping bag for over ten years . It's synthetic and I know from experience it will keep me warm even when damp . Chuck in the washing machine with some nikwax tech wash and it comes out like new and with improved water repellence . If it's hot I can even open the zip full length and use it as a quilt .
Nice
Quilts work well for me. I've been sleeping with blankets and quilts (once they arrived) for many years.
*BUT:* I agree 100% with your position about being open minded and questioning (gear) decisions.
I love it when gear works out! Good job finding what works for you.
Come back anytime!
Great video on why someone may want the bag over quilt.
I’ll throw in my own two cents.
As a heftier individual who tosses and turns and side sleeps, the typical mummy felt so constraining and claustrophobic. I got my quilt for rim-to-rim Grand Canyon backpacking and it worked very well.
I’ll agree the idea of switching just to switch is silly, and the weight benefits of the quilt might not be that meaningful, particularly as you get into colder temps. Even with pad straps, the quilt just feels better, less claustrophobic. I think that’s probably a better reason (imho) than saving some ounces.
That said, bags probably work fine for most.
Great insight. Thanks so much for taking the time to share your thoughts!!
If I want a quilt, I'll unzip my bag. I do it all the time in warmer weather. When it's cold, it's zipped up around my face. I use a pad with convoluted holes so the bottom does add insulation. Not the most comfortable, but when it's cold, I mainly want to keep from freezing.
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I have over 20 years experience hiking and backpacking. My opinion on Quilts (and other popular alternatives to traditional gear like trailrunners) is, that they are great alternative options for experienced hikers with very special requirements. But I would argue, that they are much harder to use and the risk of sleeping poorly is much higher. But some people really want to have more room to move, less weight, the ability to combine their quilt with another quilt or sleeping bag etc. For any beignner I would always recommend to start with a sleeping bag and maybe try some alternatives after a few years.
Excellent advice!
If you have a quilt that goes 10C deg below your sleepwear temp and a bag that goes 20C below your sleepwear temp, then you have a 3 level sleep system for 10, 20 or 30 deg below your sleepwear temp. You can put a zippered head slip across the quilt to turn it into a poncho & if you tie the long edges together down the middle & put a belt around it, it becomes an extremely warm double layer tabard that excludes drafts from the neck area. You still need to cover your arms with something like a fleece jacket. But the tabard replaces a long coat & has better freedom of movement than a long coat. You can even sleep in your bag & quilt in tabard mode which is even more incredably warm as long as you have your extremities covered. You just need to be able to do some very basic sewing, if you can do basic field repairs, you can do this.
Thanks for the input!
Good solid info here. Over quilts work best for hammocks period, the foot box keeps the quilt in place and your feet warm while the under quilt keeps ypur backside warm. There is honestly no weight or space savings with an over quilt because you always need an under quilt as well. Hammock=quilt+under quilt. Ground=pad+sleeping bag.
Thanks for chiming in!
For me, quilt in warm weather and bag in cold weather. It's not really weight why I use one. It's comfort, and you're right: in lower ambient temperatures no matter how many straps I whack on there's still occasionally air vented out.
I've thought of myog'ing a section of material with no insulation to a quilt, effectively making a bivvy/quilt hybrid. Whack my pad in, nice and baggy so the quilt is still loose on me.
Thanks for chiming in!
For me quilt is good for summer. Other seasons always sleeping bag. I use straps on my quilt, although at warmer nights i release top strap. Draft can be a problem but since i use liner bag for both sleeping systems it doesn't bother me so much. Colder nights i also wear long underwear so maybe quarter of warmth comes anyways from other sources than just sleeping bag or quilt. I think weight saving isn't much with quilt, since with it i need warmer sleeping pad. Although my quilt takes less than half of space compared to my bag. Both are useful in right circumstances, but if someone is going to buy just one always go for bag.
Solid advice! Thanks for chiming in!
The fabric under you in a sleeping bag is not useless, it keeps drafts from coming in. You can partially solve that by using a sleeping bag liner. Or like me, just use a proper quilt setup, like the Quechua sleep-in :)
Edit: 100€ for the pad and quilt combo
Thanks for the input!
Same experience here, I had a Sea to Summit ember ll, and was freezing cold..I realised that we have mummy shaped bags because they are warmer due to cutting down excess space between you and the bag meaning less space to warm and keep warm. Quilts being strapped to the mat increase space between you and the cover ! !
Bingo!
I’m a stomach/side sleeper so quilts were attractive to me. I aimed for higher comfort in the cold by buying an extra wide quilt so I can strap it to itself on cold nights. Otherwise it just lays open. The inner of my tent actually keeps it cradled around me so that’s another way it works. But yeah, I dropped the pad straps.
Oh sweet
You care about hikers and their $ and it shows. Don't lose yourself in the hype! Subscribed
Thank you! I'm pretty grounded and comments like this always help me stay on track. My ONLY care in the world is how others get to experience the outdoors and I hope I can be a small players in that.
Im a side sleeper and bags were never comfortable, switched to quilt and get much better rest at night. One caveat; snow and freezing temps I take a the bag.
I love a quilt for summer nights. I find 50 degrees or higher is the threshold for me when quilts become more comfortable than sleeping bags.
You need a high R value sleeping pad. Get a large quilt and use the straps to keep it on the warmer pad. My problem is the pillow sliding off. I’ve been looking into the ZenBivy sleep system. Its the same weight as my current set up. But check it out, I’m curious to hear your opinion on the ZenBivy
Oh I’m sure I can fix the issue with those suggestions but they counteract the weight savings of a quilt. Since I personally don’t mind a bag, I’d rather not fix what’s not broken. More R value + larger warmer quilt = weight increase
I agree, a quilt is a tool to be used at an appropriate time
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I am considering a quilt. But not in the sense that most think. I would like a quilt for like 35°f or maybe 40°f and this would work well for warmer. Nights…. And then if I go out in the more winter months and use my sleeping bag…. I could use this quilt as a blanket to drape over my sleeping bag to help gain a bit more warmth….
I think that’s a great plan. If you combine with a bag, stuff it inside though.