Why I Stopped Using Quilts For Backpacking
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ค. 2024
- Do you know what the most overrated and flawed piece of backpacking gear is (for me)? Sleeping quilts.
Yep...the ultralight sleeping quilt has a major flaw that people don't often talk about because they're so obsessed with how lightweight quilts are. They fail to be objective about their backpacking gear because they've either spent too much money on it, researched it for far too long to where they believe it works, or they're just unwilling to be honest about their gears' performance.
I've used a sleeping quilt for backpacking on and off for the past few years and have decided they're not for me. I like bags, have no issues with them, and I think they're a far better choice than a quilt.
Before you go buying yourself that fancy new ultralight sleeping quilt, watch this video and then ask yourself if you REALLY need that quilt after all. Maybe you do, maybe you don't.
If you DO decide to go through with it, be objective and don't go into this thing thinking your quilt will be the best purchase you've ever made because there's a chance it won't be.
FEATURED IN THIS VIDEO:
Enlightened Equipment Enigma: bit.ly/3w77XqS
Kuiu Super Down Sleeping Bag 30 degree:
ABOUT ME:
👋 My name is Emory, and I love helping people learn how to backpack, so I've dedicated this channel to offering practical tips and techniques, down-to-earth perspectives on gear, and general outdoor commentary to help you improve your experience in the backcountry.
Emory, By Land
P.S. Don't forget to check out my beginner backpacking course!
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**********************
FAVORITE BACKPACKING GEAR:
Jetboil Flash - amzn.to/2ZYVQS6
Long Handled Spoon: amzn.to/3k3uWiU
Kuiu 30 degree bag -
Klymit Pad - amzn.to/3k4iRtu
Fingerless Wool Gloves - amzn.to/3BIwoNr
Altra Lone Peak Shoes - amzn.to/3whhX1F
First Lite Kiln Hoody - amzn.to/3woK2V6
Hunting Pants: amzn.to/3nXcNo3
Sun Hoody - amzn.to/3o1Wma5
Hiking Socks - amzn.to/3GRBgDJ
**********************
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Backcountry - bit.ly/3pYf17h
REI - bit.ly/2TxZwH1
Garage Grown Gear - bit.ly/2T2WbiA - กีฬา
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I think most UL hikers just cover their bodies with a combination of Dynema, Smartwater bottles and cut-in-half toothbrushes while wearing a full merino wool union suit, down hoodie and a pair of athletic shorts they bought in the girls department at Goodwill.
hahaha!
I always wondered what they did with the other half of their toothbrushes
@@splashpit they put them in a corner and shame them for being useless dead weight. They call them fat and stupid and otherwise degrade them.
lol
@@splashpit It's for "sexy time."
I definitely prefer quilting when it’s above freezing out.
Below freezing I always want a bag.
Agreed
I would definitely think this is where quilts would excel is warmer weather when a accidental vent is not deleterious and you might want to hang a limb out to cool off.
I sleep very hot so bags have always been kinda a hard go for me unless it's fall or later or the nights are really cool.
I'm not an ultralighter by any means.. but if you are a person that hate sleepingbags b/c they're so restrictive, then a couple of straps isn' even close to being the same. Much easier to change sides for a side sleeper such as my self. I always used bags like quilts anyways, and I know many who did the same. So it's more like free weight for us!
Fair enough! Thanks for the input!
my thoughts as well, the two straps that attach to your pad only keep the quilt on top and centered, but do nothing to restrict your actual movement underneath the quilt. I'll admit it took a LOT of adjustment to figure out how to get comfortable with the quilt but once I did I slept like a baby out there. I don't see myself ever going back to a sleeping bag unless I'm snow camping in really cold weather.
Open your bag and you have a quilt with safety of a bag
I usually clip the straps on one side of the quilt for anchor, leaving the other side open. Not constricting at all. But the straps aren’t weightless, lol.
100%!! Yep I went back to a bag and love it. Still love a quilt in the right scenario though. Great video!
Thanks buddy, much appreciated! I think if I ever use a quilt again it would be a 40 degree and super light for those warmer nights.
how about Zinbivy?
You don’t know what you are talking about.
You just run to the nearest hotel.
I can’t wait to see you on the trip coming up. All signed up.
If its that warm just a simple lightweight blanket.
Right gear for the right job. I think too many people search for THE perfect piece of gear for all applications and it doesn't exist. :) New sub, good stuff!
Agreed! Thanks for being here!
Couldnt agree more. I us a kodiak canvas rectangular bag for drive up camp sites, and for actual backpacking I have down summer mummy and a winter synthetic mummy.
Awesome job highlighting a different side of quilts. I've been backpacking for 24 years and with all of the videos about quilts, I feel like there really is "pressure" to change. But I love your arguments about losing the warm air if you adjust position through the night. I'll stick with my bag for the foreseeable future. Cheers!
Cheers!!!
What bag do u own?
These are definitely some valid points. I've definitely experienced similar problems but ultimately have found a solution that works for me which actually was as simple as using an extra-wide quilt. With an extra-wide, I can attach the sides of the quilt together and close off drafts really well while still having enough room to toss and turn. I really wish there were inexpensive quilts people could try out before purchasing. Most of the high-end quilts are upwards of $400. Even the more budget-friendly ones I make still cost a lot more than a cheap sleeping bag.
Interesting approach. Sounds like it works great for you. Thanks for tossing your solution out there!
And you carry that on backpacking trips or are you car camper?
While I do enjoy a sleeping quilt, I must admit its used during Spring through early fall climates low of 25 April/early May and a high of 75/80 “am/pm” not the middle of day temps. Winter camping changes my thoughts on gear used and definitely the sleeping system. Oct-March “sleeping bag” just my thoughts. Great content as always, have a great week every one…😉🤙🏽
Thanks for sharing!! It’s those fall experiences that made me realize all this.
I have some of the same draft issues with EE quilts. Now that I have a Katabatic with elastic binding around the bottom, a catenary cut and differential cut baffles, drafts are eliminated. Attached to the pad, this keeps everything in place whereas a sleeping bag conforms (the restrictive feeling) to my body and slides around on the pad in weird ways for me.
The other big benefit of a quilt for me is the versatility of laying it out in warmer temps and then cinching it down when it is closer to its temp rating. I also factor in wearing mid and puffy layers to add warmth, so my 30F comfort rated quilt is effective from the mid 20s all the way up to the 50s.
Critical to the system is pad and head warmth. Unfortunately, I think a lot of folks have a bad experience with quilts because they don’t boost these elements of the system. A 1oz beanie in warmer weather or 2oz down balaclava when colder are more flexible than a fixed sleeping bag hood. And still lighter when paired with the 21oz quilt. If you sleep cold with an insulated pad like an xLite, then switch to a 4 season pad like an xtherm and you’ll notice the difference right away.
None of this is meant to argue your main point about objectivism. Absolutely, any piece of gear should be evaluated on its performance in different conditions, not because of marketing or popularity. Objectively, I prefer a quilt in those temp ranges because it is the most effective for me. ✌️
I really mean it when I say I want this channel to be a community of people who can offer up their experiences and opinions without fear of being taken the wrong way. I’m only one person who has only my experiences so can’t tell you how much I appreciate your thoughtful input based on yours.
We are all here to learn and I think you make some great points. I hope you stick around to do more of it!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences!
@@EmoryByLand Thank you for your openness and inviting words. Your podcast is refreshingly reflective and diverse and it feels like you bring your whole self to the content you put out in the world. Truly a “would like to hang out with that dude” in my book. Cheers Emory!
My pleasure! Thanks so much for the kind words. Maybe I'll see you out there one day!
Right on. Be blessed.
I personally prefer a sleeping bag. If it’s warm, I just completely open it up and use it like a quilt. When it’s cold, I use it as advertised. Best of both worlds!!!!! 😎
👊🏼👊🏼👊🏼
I do the same thing!
I love my quilt. I tend to get tangled and feel claustrophobic (even in a rectangular bag). The quilt needs to be wide enough to cut down on drafts. My first quilt was not wide enough and I was cold. My second quilt was a 10° EE Accomplice shared with my hubby and I was cold. I now have a 20° Thermarest Vesper quilt. It only weighs 19 ounces and I am warm now. For me this was a lesson in getting the thing you really want the first time lol. 2 Foot Adventures is great, my husband got a Lite AF pack from them last year.
Absolutely.
Awesome! Love 2 Foot!
I use the same quilt and I am very happy with it ........
I dont agree that the Thermarest Vesper quilt is really a quilt since it has a restive mummy shape.
I keep hearing about the weight savings for quilts but they normally only save a few ounces compared to a quality lightweight down bag at the cost of an integral hood and the bottom of the bag that traps heat. That is a steep price to pay for a few ounces. For those few extra ounces, I have the advantage of a quilt or a sleeping bag depending on temperatures. I can open up my bag and use it over me as a quilt without strapping it around me because the extra fabric compared to single purpose quilts allows the sleeping bag to drape on the ground sealing me from most drafts and without the constriction of quilt straps. I also tuck my feet into the footbox which doesn't feel too confining to me. But when the temps drop lower, up comes the zipper and the hood to warm me in a down cocoon. Less space to warm, no drafts from the side, and very easy to seal off drafts from the top with a draft collar or midlayer loosely wrapped around my neck. Very versatile system. Always tailored to my needs rather than tailoring my needs to a quilt.
Love it. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
This is exactly how I see it, too. Most of the time, I use my sleeping bag as a quilt with no need to strap anything. Temperatures change overnight so now and then at 4am, it's time to zip up and I can do that easily.
Don't get me wrong - I'm all for the option to have a quilt and that it's the right choice for some people but over the past couple of years particularly, the rhetoric has largely gone into hype territory where 'if you're not using a quilt, you're doing it wrong' has practically become the norm. And that's silly.
When you look at the product vs. the price, it is hard to justify why quilts tend to be so much more expensive and it appears to me that it's down to hype and very little else. Manufacturers found a way to manufacture an alternative sleeping bag (out of less material and simpler manufacture) at lower cost, and hyped it to sell it at a higher price point.
'Here's a sleeping bag... we remove the zipper.... and the hood.... and some of the material so it doesn't reach all the way around and... we increase the price.'
Completely agree with every single point here!
Been a long time BA 20° Lost Ranger Down sleeping bag lover. However as I started to looks at ways to cut weight a buddy had me try his quilt. Fell in love with it. For the longest time I would tolerate cold spots from my bag. I thought I was cold yet most of my body was warm. I soon deduced that as I rolled from one side to the other, the top shoulder and upper hip were compressing into the bag causing the down to lose its loft. Thus giving me a cold spot. A quilt is perfect for a side sleeper. To complete the sleep system I recommend the Thermarest NeoAir Xlite R/W Pad (the wide 25” is best), a Silk Cacoon (soft, comfy, add’l warmth), a pillow w/pillowcase or a buff puff. I find the Silk Cacoon does just that; cacoons you inside your quilt preventing any compression against the down which creates cold spots. It also reduces the risk of drafts, increases the overall R value, and puts a comfortable barrier between you and the sleeping pad. Win, win, win! Quilt wins! 😝
Well said! Thanks for sharing your experience!
Fair enough and I'm happy you have the system that works for you.
But you say you got cold spots where you compressed the sleeping bag. You shouldn't get any more cold spots from a compressed sleeping bag than you would from having nothing there... That makes no sense.
100% agreed. I got into UL a few years ago and went the same route. They are fine for spring and fall but I suffer the extra weight every time when the nights are below 40*F
Good to know I'm not alone!
Totally agree with the "be objective" advice. I'm still satisfied with my quilt for the type of backpacking I do, which is casual and usually warm weather. I have had it in the cold a few times and been fine with it. I am a side sleeper that switches sides a few times a night, and I still like the quilt because I can sort of tuck it in behind me under my shoulder. I have found with some bags that the round shape of the bag itself can sometimes make that hard, and then I have a draft on my back. I had the same issue when I tried pad straps with my quilt: they just pull the quilt off my back and make it colder.
That’s awesome you found what works for you. That’s literally what it’s all about!
Also, I love the phrase “casual backpacker.” It sounds balanced and sincere.
Thanks!
I totally agree with you, I had the exact same experience with a quilt. I tried it off and on for 4 years before I finally completely gave up on it. I went back to a sleeping bag and I was comfortable again. I open my sleeping bag up, and drape it over me like a quilt in warmer weather and that works well. Since a sleeping bag is wider than a quilt, when it's opened up, you don't have the same draft issue that you have with a quilt, but you gain the freedom of movement many people seek.
Funny how it takes us so long to finally figure out something isn’t working! Thanks for sharing!
@@EmoryByLand The Quilt Community will gaslight you too, "User Error", "You're using it wrong", no they just suck. I didn't get the whole strap thing either, it made it so much more complicated.
@@josephjamison5007 You can be totally objective about your equipment, but really it's just your subjective at the end of the day. What works for you might not work for someone else and vice-versa. Dealing in absolutes like "quilts just suck" and "you're not using a quilt correctly" don't contribute the conversation at hand.
I bought a 20 degree quilt when I had to replace an old sleeping bag. It's been nice, but when it's chilly, I end up cinching up the footbox and zipping up the quilt into a bag, one that doesn't have a hood. For the slight weight savings, it's not worth the downsides, so I'll be selling the quilt and getting a bag again, at least for colder temperatures.
Bingo. Glad to know I’m not alone!
Good info man! I'm looking at the kuiu 30 degree bag and was wondering how low of temps you have slept in it with down jacket and pants?
I’ve had it down to freezing for sure. Not sure of the exact temps, but it was pretty damn cold any my water was freezing. I used puffy pants and a puffy jacket to get my there. Not sure it’s something I’d be doing all the time, but it works for those random cold trips!
THANK you. I have not stayed warm in my quilt in the backcountry. Drafts here, drafts there, drafts everywhere. I just received a new sleeping bag that I think will be wonderful.
I do what I can!! 😂.
Let me know how it goes and if you see a difference at all.
So far, so much better with the bag. 🙂
Thank you for being the first to say all the things I've been thinking it would be like owning and sleeping with a quilt.
You’re welcome! 😂
I consider my sleeping bag a survival tool against hyperthermia caused by the unexpected. That might include a drenching in icy water, or a sudden freeze the weather report failed to forecast or numerous unexpected occurrences that happen in the wildernesses, a simple illness can worsen if you can’t stay warm and what if you have to wait for rescue following an injury? Anyone else have a sudden alpine storm bury your tent in snow with no option but to wait it out for multiple days? Western Mountaineering TerraLite is a spacious semi-rectangular 20* bag that only weights 2.5lbs and completely unzips to double as a quilt, best of both worlds because being too hot on a warm summer night isn’t fun either.
Thanks for your video. However, i would like to ask you what kind off sleeping pad are you using? You should point out to your audience that the sleeping pad is EXTREMELY important in maintaining heat, ESPECIALLY if you use a quilt, (iny experience). For example, i have a foam sleeping pad, AND a very thin (5 cm) mummy inflatable sleeping pad that i use with a aegismax wind hard quilt and it's been great (even down to less than 0C). But if i use it without the foam pad it will be cold. I also have 2 different foam pads that i use interchangeably depending on the weather. One, a full length (190cm) full width (70cm) foam pad, and a second, cut up foam pad (50cm width, 165 length) and here again, i can detect a difference in warmth in colder situations. In short, while i appreciate your suggestion to ask ourselves why we do things, i did not hear advice to your audience, (which inexperienced hikers i think should hear this) that quilts require a good sleeping pad system for cold weather use. Otherwise,they don't work as intended.
Great point and I agree fully that the pad makes a huge difference regardless of if it’s a quilt or a bag.
I use an insulated pad from Klymit.
All info is important, although I would guess that people who are serious enough about it to regularly hike and sleep in colder temps are well aware of the exaggerated - but bona fide - role that R-value plays in a pad.
To be honest, though, most people will never sleep in temps cold enough that a decent R-value is needed, unless it's by accident. I counsel them that - when it comes to comfort - it's more important to go thicker and wider, especially if you can't guarantee that you will sleep on your back all night. And you can get 3" thick, 25" wide pads with R-values of 1.3-1.8 all day for about $30-$40.
great vid. as a backpacker with 35 yrs experience i will totally agree. i do like quilts as theres a season for everything but a great quilt does not replace a great sleeping bag. thanks for that
Thanks so much! Glad you liked it!
Wow. What an eye opener!
👀🙌🏼🙌🏼
From what I’ve seen, a lot of quilters use the under quilt in a hammock. Maybe that makes more sense? I dunno. I have a cheap pad in a hammock with a super old down bag and am good to 25. My buddy used a quilt in a bivy sack but he has a 4” or so thick sleeping pad and the quilt is strapped to the pad. I think your assessment of “test it if you like it, but don’t become too attached to an idea” is pretty correct!!!
I think the hammock and quilt with under quilt combo makes sense.
Great explanation of your experience. I personally have an EE quilt that I got for my hammock but swallowed the pill that it was the bees knees for all hiking. Always slept colder with it, still have to tie and cinch everything up like a bag in cooler weather so have upgraded to a bag again. Most bags zip half or the full way down anyway, and weight is negligible. In warmer weather I'll still take the bag now and use a lighter pad unless I'm back in the hammock
Sounds like there are far more of us than I originally thought!
Great job! Thank you Sir 👍
You bet!
For me, the main point I realized was covered in the first minute. For the way that 95% of us hike/camp, a quilt is pretty much just an unzipped bag, when it comes down to it.
We don't care about the extra 8 oz., and we can make an unzipped bag work enough like a quilt in most situations. I'm doing more camping in the back of my SUV now, and during most of the year I only need the OT camp blanket I bought at WM for $20. If I need more, I have a fleece liner and a 20-degree bag on standby.
Great point!
Definitely not for everybody - in general i find that people who sleep warm, doesnt move much while they sleep - and perhaps most side and especially stomach sleepers (like me) - and people who perhaps find sleeping bags constrictive - those are the ones who should try a quilt - weight is not the reason, amount you might save is in the few grams - not worth compromising sleep comfort for. I have been using a quilt for 10ish years and love it - almost never use padstraps as i am a very "quite" stomach sleeper who can tug the quilt under my arms/body eliminating the issue you mention with air circulation - but the only real reason i see for trying a quilt if you already have a sleeping bag is for comfort
A solid take on the topic, thanks!
My experience: I always used my sleeping bag as a quilt until I was in the market for a new bag. Went with quilt and I'm personally happy.
Obviously a personal decision. I got the widest quilt, and am able to close it up if needed. Big weight saving from an old bag, but modest saving from a comparably-priced bag.
Well said! Thanks for sharing!
I have a 30° quilt that I used on a PCT section hike in the Sierra in a few years ago in AUGUST. Temps got down to 40°, and as a cold sleeper I was glad that I had also brought along down pants! I would have been miserable in the Sierra at a typical thru hike date as I know it would’ve been much colder. I live in Florida and that quilt is perfect even in our cooler weather, but when I thru hike the PCT next year I think I will be taking a bag. This was a great video!
Oh man, if someone is a cold sleeper they should for sure not go with a quilt. I think you’re spot on about your game plan. Quilts when it’s hot and bags when it’s cool.
If I were going back to the PCT I’d be using a bag for sure. Also, jealous you’re going back!! Have so much fun!
Solid explanation. I hiked the PCT 18' with a DIY quilt that I made, knowing about these drafts I made the quilt extra wide (64" wide) so I could combat moving around and not getting cold air underneath. I hiked the entire trail with that quit and honestly didn't have issues. Luckily I sleep warm. But, I will say I still prefer a sleeping bag - they make bags out there just as lightweight. I recently picked up a Western Mountaineering 32 Summerlite, which it's only 19 oz! I mean it's a no brainer to use this bag over a quilt. Personally I think a quilt shines when you are trying to save space such as when bike packing. There's not as much real estate on a bike so having bulky items is aways the crux. Anyway great video.
Andy
Well said!
I couldn't agree more. I live in Norway and I love using quilts in the summer, but not during winter.
Good to know!
I’m sure a lot of people feel the same way. My son has struggled some staying warm with his custom quilt I spent a lot on. However, our EE Accomplice has been amazing for me and two kids, plenty warm, and so much lighter than 3 sleeping bags. I think for a lot of folks getting a wide quilt, those extra 6 inches, will make a huge difference.
Going wide seems to be a common thread. Thanks for the input!
Great point! Exactly why I haven’t switched. But I do find mummy bags way to restrictive. So I have a Nemo bag, which works great for me.
A great way to solve the issue! How do you like that bag?
@@EmoryByLand Love the Nemo bag!!! Very innovative!!!
Yeah. Same here. But if I'm hiking, rectangular ones at a decent weight and warmth are pretty limited. But I can't fit in most regular mummy bags now, so I invested in a brand that makes larger mummy bags. It's a bag used by European military in some places that still comes in at about 3.5# for a 20-degree. I can't recall the brand, but Outdoor Gear Review did a review on it in the last year or so as a great value bag, so if you're interested feel free to check that out. It adds a few inches in the shoulders, which helps me tremendously.
I agree with you on the draft issue, I prefer a sleeping bag for ground sleeping, I save the quilt for the hammock. I also cut the hood off my sleeping bag to save some weight, since I never use the hood anyway. Quality video, thanks for sharing.
Thanks!
Great idea but limited to back sleepers. I toss and turn as well as sleep on the ground.
I do a bit of both back and side sleeping so a bag works best for me. Thanks for chiming in!
Very good advise. I’ve been on the fence and am not willing to purchase. Would love to “try” one sometime and now maybe not. My bag unzips all of the way on one side, partially on the other and the foot box unzips. I love that. It’s a 25 degree bag, I do not sleep cold and have been comfortable in it from 15-80 degrees.
No sense fixing what’s not broken, right?
I use a large fleece blanket. It packs down smaller and lighter than a sleeping bag, is very warm and deals well with being wet - any moisture just moves to the outside surface of the blanket (which is cooler than the warm fluffy inside). It came in a tough plastic bag and the same can be used to pack it down compactly inside and keep it waterproof during carrying and storage. It's not as simple to use in the dark as a zip bag, especially in a hammock, but it's never been a problem.
Interesting take on a bag. Thanks for chiming in!
I am a winter camper and canoe camper, so weight and volume are not a big consideration for me. i am either paddling, or pulling a sled, so the extra few ounces are inconsequential to me. like you, i am interested in trying new sleep system out of curiosity. i have read that the quilts are less restrictive for side sleepers like me. on a cold night, i would probably not rely solely on a quilt but for later summer/early fall, it can be a good choice. thanks for the video and for your candour. everything that you said made sense to me.
Thanks for the kind words and sharing your perspective!
After researching quilts and deciding to stick with a sleeping bag, of course I had to watch this video! Maybe they work for people who camp at lower elevations in warm Julys and Augusts but I was looking for lightweight and warm in the mountains. I landed on the Thermarest Parsec 20F/-6C which has reduced the filling on the bottom side but still has all things I want like a zipper and a hoodie and draft collar that can be sinched. I love being cocooned and the straps keep the bag in place while I roll over at night. In prepping my kit for the Pyrenees, I started obsessed about dropping grams but keep coming back to the reality that I already have good gear that I know works for me and want to be comfortable. And, I'm not trying for +30km days! I can drop my pack to bag peaks as well. It would cost a lot to replace all my lightweight gear with ultralight options so after buying a Toaks 650 titanium pot, I'm done!
This makes my day! I think you’ve made a very wise and reasonable choice. No sense in chasing grams if you’re already happy and don’t need to. That’s awesome!
Also, I’m a bit jealous of you’re hike in the Pyranees!
The coldest that I've sent in a quilt was down to -35⁰ F, layering a convert custom and a Hammock Gear Burrow without issue. I'm a pretty heavily leaning winter hiker, and have slept in some very cold temperatures. Actually, I tried my down bag rated down to -26⁰ in -20⁰ Temps and I froze due to compression on the side of the bag.; not an issue with my quilts. Quilts have worked much better for me in cold, and warm, weather.
I love my sleeping bags. No changes here😆👍
Thanks for the video!🙏
Thanks for checking it out!
Always good to see both sides of an argument when making a decision :) however when I made the switch from bag to quilt, it seemed to me like most pro-quilt videos were always quick to pointed out the draft issue, and how it was really a 3 season thing. And that, for cold weather, a bag is a must
One product I've seen that's probably best of both worlds is a "quilt" that's basically a sleeping bag (with hood) with a fabric back that can stretch around your pad so it stays in place. Seems like the best of both worlds
I’m a fan of whatever works the best!
Not that I have a quilt but on warmer nights I often zip open the top of my bag and use it "quilt style". Very comfortable and makes changing position easy.
Quilts for me are all about weight, freedom of movement is second thought but I really appreciate it. I have used it 200 nights plus over a couple winter trips and mountaineering at 20000ft in the Andes and it has kept me warm even when fully damp.
I credit my use of a bivy bag (OR Interstellar) to this performance because it is an enclosed tiny space with minimal draft potential. So the combo of a UL quilt + UL shelter is what makes it work for me.
I made my own 0F quilt. It weights 1kg and it cost me about 230$, anything comparable in terms of weight and warmth is about 800$+
That’s an interesting combination. Thanks for sharing!
i am interessted how ouy made your 0f quilt
If your putting a quilt in a bivy bag you basically making a sleeping bag so i dont think your point is valid when comparing the 2. for people using a tent a quilt will suck in the cold
@@doro.wiediger with UL fabric and down :) I just checked videos on TH-cam to see what sizing and all
@@luc1ferblack no, a bivy bag replaces a tent or hammock. I could sleep outside with just the quilt and sleeping pad
For cold weather I'm 100% with you on a sleeping bag for ground sleeping. I have lots of quilts and a couple sleeping bags. In a hammock, under and top quilts are my go to. For ground sleeping quilts are nice in warmer weather especially if you get the type that convert to a blanket. All that said as soon as it gets really cold I want my whole body covered if I'm sleeping on the ground. Usually I stuff my summer down quilt inside of a 3 season synthetic bag, paired with an insulated sleeping pad and, I'm toasty in really cold weather.
I kind of do the same with the double bag thing, but instead just use puffy pants and a puffy jacket. Very similar approach that works!
I'm with you on this I tried a quilt and whilst OK for kinda good weather when really cold is not an issue for everything else I take the bag every time.
I tend to move a lot while sleeping. When camping in cold conditions I always use the elastic cords with my quilt. They stick the quilt to the mat no matter what dance I do while I am sleeping. And by the way, the warm air stays in and the cold one, out.
Nice. Sounds like you have a set up that matches how you sleep. Thanks for sharing!
It's extremely important to fall in love with your backpacking gear and suffer rather than admit that you were wrong. If it ain't broke...
"Embrace your backpacking grief for there your soul will grow" -Carl Jung
Hmmm
Love my enlightened equipment 20 deg quilt. Got the wide version to ensure no drafts when on my side.
Interesting. Why did you go with a quilt? Weight savings or not being restricted?
I've been using a ajungilak mammut tundra summer sleeping bag for over ten years . It's synthetic and I know from experience it will keep me warm even when damp . Chuck in the washing machine with some nikwax tech wash and it comes out like new and with improved water repellence . If it's hot I can even open the zip full length and use it as a quilt .
Nice
Decades ago before I heard of quilts I started using my mummy bag as a quilt. When the weather get colder I zip it up part way or all the way depending on conditions. To me it is the best of both worlds! 6 ounces.....big deal.
Couldn't agree more. Zip...unzip...tadaaaa
I have and do the same thing. I never bought into the quilts.
When switching from my hammock to the ground, I ditch the Quilt for the Sierra Designs Cloud just for the reasons you had. It is very similar to a quilt but also has the sides that stay tucked under you. I tend to roll around a little more when I am on a pad vs. the hammock and the design of the Cloud keeps it attached to the pad so I don't get that puff a cold air. Jeff
I’ve heard great things about that one. Great idea!
I love my 20° mummy bag. And it works for me. Do I plan on sticking with it. :D
If it ain't broke, don't fix it, right?!
Same experience here, I had a Sea to Summit ember ll, and was freezing cold..I realised that we have mummy shaped bags because they are warmer due to cutting down excess space between you and the bag meaning less space to warm and keep warm. Quilts being strapped to the mat increase space between you and the cover ! !
Bingo!
The fabric under you in a sleeping bag is not useless, it keeps drafts from coming in. You can partially solve that by using a sleeping bag liner. Or like me, just use a proper quilt setup, like the Quechua sleep-in :)
Edit: 100€ for the pad and quilt combo
Thanks for the input!
totally agree, has to be at least 40F at the coldest point in the morning for me to be comfortable in my 30F quilt(which in Carpathians narrows the use only to July and August) , anything colder, which means 10 other months sleeping bag only
Good to know. Thanks for the input!
I have three quilts. I really want a western mountaineering -10. The quilt I pair up with a bivy bag and a light weight synthetic blanket. Have been winter camping with it and it helps me with the claustrophobia of a bag and I still stay very warm. Granted I’m carrying more than a standard bag, I never got into quilts to save weight just comfort ability to move around. The bivy keeps out the drafts and the synthetic blanket helps manage moisture.
That’s awesome you found what works for you. Thanks for sharing your setup!
I've just watched two videos. One by a backpacker who always uses a quilt and this video.
The other video said that quilts aren't for everyone and explained both the pros and cons of them. He explained why they work for him and why they may not work for others.
Your video seems to only give one side of the argument. You say that it's not as good as a sleeping bag and give a list of reasons why. The only time you highlight others comments of the benefits of quilts is to refute them. I believe you're overlooking that you sleep comfortably in a sleeping bag anyway. For someone who struggles to sleep comfortably in a sleeping bag a quilt can definitely be a better option. The negatives of possible drafts can be less of an issue than the uncomfortableness some people suffer in a sleeping bag.
I do agree that people just jumping on the band wagon to save a few grams when they can sleep fine in a sleeping bag are making a bad decision though.
Thanks for watching!
With all due respect, I'm 6'4", broad-shouldered, backpacking for 40 years. NEVER found a mummy bag that was comfortable. I don't pack in sub-40 weather; looks like you do. To ward off the chill, I'll use the straps on my REI quilt, or wear long underwear top and bottom. I like movement, even throughout the night. Thanks for your review. Happy trails. Phil, Albuquerque
Quilts work well for me. I've been sleeping with blankets and quilts (once they arrived) for many years.
*BUT:* I agree 100% with your position about being open minded and questioning (gear) decisions.
I love it when gear works out! Good job finding what works for you.
Come back anytime!
I’m a stomach sleeper that had a tendency to move around during the night. I used mummy bags for the longest time because I wasn’t online and didn’t realize there was an alternative. Now that I’ve switched to a quilt I sleep so much better. I’m using the zen bivy which does a good job of solving a lot of the issues that quilts have. It’s not perfect and is heavier than most quilts, but they are coming out with an ultralight version sometime in 2024.
Also, you still have much more freedom of movement from a strapped quilt with a draft collar than most bags.
That's great you found something that works for you! That's the ONLY thing that matters!
I feel like if you're comfortable and happy if makes little sense to go to a quilt over a sleeping bag. However if you're feeling claustrophobic etc trying one out makes more sense.
Where quilts shine to me is with synthetic as the extra insulation under you weighs so much more than the down.
What do you think of the middle ground like some thermarest bags that don't have insulation under you to save weight but are full bags still?
Can we be best friends?
Agreed, and I thing those hybrid bags are a great solution
@@EmoryByLand absolutely friend!
What does everything for me is my ksb 0° oversized sleeping bag it has stretch baffles to make room I think it's the best bag I've ever had and will never go back to a quilt that was a great video I totally agree with you keep up the good work
Thanks for sharing your experience and the kinds words!
Honestly, I think quilts are for hammocks. I just have a down Rumpl blanket because I don't like foot boxes. This only works for me because I use a hammock, and it's easy to tuck myself in when it's cold. In the winter, I carry a fleece blanket to curl up in under the rumpl to manage drafts while the rumpl provides the bulk of the insulation. Comfy down to 20.
Thank you! I thought I was the only one. I greatly prefer a sleeping bag unless I am in a hammock.
You’re not alone!
Good video! I think everything depends from your goals. I use zenbivy system (25 and 10 degrees ) in spring/summer season. I works great and super comfortable. When temperature down below 15 degrees I use bags (western mountaineering ). It works great earthier but not super comfy like quilts.
Thanks for sharing!
I’m a side sleeper, I still prefer the quilt for most situations. -40 I’ll use a good bag combination :)
Nice. Glad you found what works best!
I'm getting into hammock camping. I have a foamie under me and my "Arctic Tiger" blanket on top (just a blanket I bought at a yard sale). I'm so comfortable! I'll add an under-quilt this winter. It goes underneath the hammock so it doesn't get compressed.
Jeez! I having so much fun with my life :D
Right on! Thanks for sharing!
You mentioned, When it's cold. What is a cold temperature where you travel? I do use a quilt as part of my Morular Sleep System. My outer shell is a under one pound bivy bag with a waterproof bottom and breathable top. Next in goes my sleeping pad followed by a bag liner only for warm summer nights. when the temperature dops to the 40's I will add a one pound down quilt over me When the temp drops below 32 f 0 C . I can fold the quilt in half with half under me and the other half on top. In summer weather 70F and above I sleep in my shorts and under shirt in the bivy bag. When the temp starts dropping closer to 0C I switch to my Nyja suite of poly pro bottoms and Moreno long sleeve tops and alpaca socks and a one pound, down hooded jacket. The zipped up Bivy traps the warm body heat and expels the body vapor. I never sleep with my exposed body on the sleeping pad. I have spent a lot of my life traveling by foot, bike Kayak and canoe,. I really have never had a problem keeping warm. When the temp is reaches zero Freiheit down to minus 20, I will add one more module to the system, a mid weight sleeping bag. I'm a big believer in Bring What You Need, not what the manufacturer or books say you need. We all have a different comfort range depending on our experiences with cold temp ranges. I have been known in my younger days of bring along a 400 page book. Now I just sit around the fire and sip a warm brandy.
Sound advice! Well said. I like the modular idea.
I’ve begun using my quilt for summer temps, but the moment the temps begin to drop, I go back to a bag. Not sure what my exact temperature range for a quilt is, but we will leave it at the one where you just need a blanket.
I love a quilt for summer nights. I find 50 degrees or higher is the threshold for me when quilts become more comfortable than sleeping bags.
I hammock camp for the most part , in a tent I still use a quilt. With a sleeping bag the layer under you does nothing but flattens out loosing all it's insulation. From that experience my sleeping bag was always unzipped and used as a semi quilt. I use a Therm-a-rest full length mummy style self inflating air mattress in the Hammock. It's 1/2 to 3/4 inflated so it conformers to my body and the hammock at the same time. The mattress offers insulation for my backside while the quilt offers warmth for the top. Most of the time the foot box is not attached so it becomes a large blanket when in the hammock. A real quilt does not have zippers to stick you and I find they are a lot more comfortable. I gave my sleeping bags away and only use the quilts.
Thanks for chiming in!
Thank you for this video!!! I've been back packing for only a couple years and I'm on a tight budget. I have a very comfy bag that I love, but I keep hearing all these influencers talk about quilts and I debate spending more money on a quilt...I think I'm good with my bag and when I get the extra money I'll probably try a quilt, but for now I'm good with the bag I have.
You’re welcome! Yeah, you don’t need a quilt just because someone is plugging one. If what you have works, stay the course and level up your gear somewhere else. Of course, it’s always fun to play around with different gear but for now, ion a budget, stay with what you have.
Thanks for watching!
I have an WM Alpinlite paired with X lite R Wide pad. I’m normal size 5’10 165. Do I need a wide pad and bag probably not but, I have never had a bad night sleep with this combo. I’m comfortable, warm and have plenty of room to move around. I think a lot about switching to a quilt but why to save 6 ounces. I know it would be a mistake. Only reason would be to have fun trying something different. You can still have a 10lb base weight and be comfortable if you choose wisely.
I think it's worth a try if you're just having fun with it, but it sounds like you probably won't see a huge difference especially if you're already happy. Thanks for the comment!
When I was in the army, we were spending the weekend on the marine base camp pendleton near San Diego. We were coming from the L.A. area, which was over 100° I thought it would be just as hot there, so I left sleeping bag home. What a mistake. I didn't think about being close to the ocean and how cold it could get. Ever since then, I haven't cared how heavy a sleeping bag is. I never leave home without it.
Bingo!
I've always feeled cramped and unable to find a comfortable sleeping position in a sleeping bag. Switching to an extra wide sleeping pad and a quilt did wonders for my sleep. My son who is 4 is the same. Hates being confined. We tried 2 nights of screming until we figured out that he hated the sleeping bag. As soon as we opened it up and used it as a quilt he slept but kept waking from being cold (it was raining and roughly 12 degrees out). Switched to a quilt that I strapped in properly and suddenly tent nights with kids is a piece of cake.
I love that there now is a choice. It used to be only sleeping bags!
That’s awesome! I love hearing how gear can improve a situation. Thanks for sharing your experience!
I’ve a sleeping pad with vertical baffles and i get a minor draft of air going along with the baffles and under my body. In the summer it’s great because I can use my sleeping bag as a quilt and I’ll get lots of ventilation.
Three season use I zip it up to waist height. Winter I have to close it fully because otherwise i get cold spots between my body and the pad.
The sleeping bag’s down fills the baffles. It’s absolute not useless.
It also prevents drafts greatly. And the hood is often missing from quilts. I have a beanie, a neck buff and a ski mask if I need the warmth, but excel for winter I end up not using those because the hood is just perfect.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
If you have a quilt that goes 10C deg below your sleepwear temp and a bag that goes 20C below your sleepwear temp, then you have a 3 level sleep system for 10, 20 or 30 deg below your sleepwear temp. You can put a zippered head slip across the quilt to turn it into a poncho & if you tie the long edges together down the middle & put a belt around it, it becomes an extremely warm double layer tabard that excludes drafts from the neck area. You still need to cover your arms with something like a fleece jacket. But the tabard replaces a long coat & has better freedom of movement than a long coat. You can even sleep in your bag & quilt in tabard mode which is even more incredably warm as long as you have your extremities covered. You just need to be able to do some very basic sewing, if you can do basic field repairs, you can do this.
Thanks for the input!
I ran an enigma for about 300 miles of trail. I love the packability but ultimately I had the same problem as you. On cold nights I just couldn’t keep it close enough to my body to keep warm. Even with the pad straps. I’m a big guy, it’s hard for me to find a sleeping back I can actually zip up past my armpits because my shoulders are too wide. So a quilt in theory is the way to go for me. But it just doesn’t work well if it’s cold. And if it’s not cold, I don’t need it anyway lol. So I agree with you. Quilts are a great idea and are easily packed. But ultimately when you need them, they fall short. Your not alone lol.
Ha! Glad to hear I’m not crazy
I also run the Kuiu 30 degree bag. I tend to sleep hot and often sleep with it unzipped (quilt style) but it’s nice to have the insurance of containing body heat.
Yep! Can’t get that with a quilt!
You need a high R value sleeping pad. Get a large quilt and use the straps to keep it on the warmer pad. My problem is the pillow sliding off. I’ve been looking into the ZenBivy sleep system. Its the same weight as my current set up. But check it out, I’m curious to hear your opinion on the ZenBivy
Oh I’m sure I can fix the issue with those suggestions but they counteract the weight savings of a quilt. Since I personally don’t mind a bag, I’d rather not fix what’s not broken. More R value + larger warmer quilt = weight increase
I’m a stomach/side sleeper so quilts were attractive to me. I aimed for higher comfort in the cold by buying an extra wide quilt so I can strap it to itself on cold nights. Otherwise it just lays open. The inner of my tent actually keeps it cradled around me so that’s another way it works. But yeah, I dropped the pad straps.
Oh sweet
I have found that a larger sleeping pad solves the draft issue really well. the 65 cm sleeping pads are just too narrow if your sleeping bag doesn't keep you in a burrito. I am currently working on a custom mat that will fit my triangular 1person + dog tent floor. With that I will be able to take the dog under the quilt when it is really cold, removing the need for extra dog gear and giving me a nice little extra heater.
interesting! Thanks for the perspective!
Did Ray Jardine popularize the lightweight backcountry quilt before the hammock crowd adopted them?
Not sure
Spot on! My same exact conclusion as well! Lots of marketing hype with quilts.
👊🏼👊🏼👊🏼
I completely disagree - perhaps the quilt you had wasn’t wide enough? Or warm enough? The argument of loosing warmth when you move is suggestive the quilt wasn’t sized correctly. Do you sleep in a cocoon at home? Of course not. That eradicates that item.
I used a RAB expedition 1200 and used to sleep in my tent with it completely unzipped (effectively a quilt) and down to -12°C was perfectly comfortable.
That suggests also that perhaps hour sleeping mat is/was inadequate? I use a Thermarest with a R value of somewhere around 6.9.
I sleep in merino wool leggings and long sleeve top. If it’s especially cold then I might wear my goose down jacket as my quilt is only comfort rated at -10°C. I carry down leggings but have not used them. This is exactly what I would wear when using my Rab 1200.
Comfort is not just warmth remember although that is critical. It’s also about being able to sleep in a comfortable position and not feel trapped in a cocoon. Part of this might be because I’m 6’6” and 118kg (260lb).
I converted to a quilt and am very happy and comfortable to have done so.
Thanks for chiming in! It's possible it wasn't wide enough, but it still doesn't make much sense to me to get a wider quilt or a warmer pad when all I need to do is swap back to a bag and I'm comfortable with what I have already. I think it's just a matter of what works and what doesn't for a person. Glad to hear you found something that works for you and have stuck with it. That's what counts!
After using a sleeping bag as a quilt for 20 years and almost never zipping it up I purchased an extra wide EE quilt and have never slept warmer. For me and many others sleeping bags are very confining and the static placement of the hood just doesn't work when it's being used as a quilt or when zipped up and tossing and turning. I really think individual sleep style, correct quilt/bag, pad , etc... has everything to do with your quality of sleep so experimentation and experience are key. I also think the 8 to 10 ounce weight savings I experienced is pretty significant when I lightened up a lot of my other gear too. It really starts to add up.
That’s awesome it works for you. 👊🏼👊🏼👊🏼
Similar experience here. When I'm on the ground (and not in a hammock), I use a FF Vireo. 16oz, 25 deg with a jacket (which I already bring), and most important, no attached hood. Hat or balaclava instead. No drafts, no pad cords, no straps, and lighter than a quilt. Also check out the FF Tanager, which doesn't require as large a jacket as the Vireo.
Copy that!!
I have over 20 years experience hiking and backpacking. My opinion on Quilts (and other popular alternatives to traditional gear like trailrunners) is, that they are great alternative options for experienced hikers with very special requirements. But I would argue, that they are much harder to use and the risk of sleeping poorly is much higher. But some people really want to have more room to move, less weight, the ability to combine their quilt with another quilt or sleeping bag etc. For any beignner I would always recommend to start with a sleeping bag and maybe try some alternatives after a few years.
Excellent advice!
Thoughts: sleeping bag - lose sleep because it is hard to get comfortable sleeping on my side and tossing and turning throughout the night. Quilt- lose sleep from drafts when tossing and turning. I found the quilt is the lesser of 2 evils. The more I used the quilt, the more I “learned” to toss without creating the drafts.
Makes sense 👊🏼👊🏼
When temperatures get low, every bit of convection leads away energy rapidly. So every sleeping system with major gaps yields bad warmth 2 weight ratio. Simple as that for me.
Bingo.
As a person who has watched WAAAAY too many backpacking gear videos during the pandemic I just want to say: Thank you! I, for one, frankly admit to being too easily influenced by gear nuts and not letting my own common sense prevail. It has cost me, both financially and physically. So now I am constantly asking myself: why is this product that cost $100 better than what I already own and cost me $20 at (OMG!) Walmart?
You are VERY welcome! I'm just trying to be a normal, levelheaded, human offering my thoughts on the topic. You are 100% correct on REALLY asking yourself if the money is worth the upgrade. Not sure if you've seen my video on my rules for buying gear buy it comes down to this.....
1. It HAS to move the needle in significant way (think 3 season tent to 4 season or something like that)
2. If it doesn't move the needle, then it sure as hell be fun to buy!
I fully admit that anytime I'm in Walmart, I shop for cheap hiking gear.
I find here in the Midwest that a bag can be way to hot but I didn’t like the traditional open quilt. But Zpacks has a great middle of the road, a full zip quilt (a mummy bag less the hood) that I love for 3 season BP trips. But I 100% agree take the gear that works for the trip, your preferences & weather conditions. One size gear doesn’t work on every trip.
I like that last part! Different gear for different trips!
For me quilt is good for summer. Other seasons always sleeping bag. I use straps on my quilt, although at warmer nights i release top strap. Draft can be a problem but since i use liner bag for both sleeping systems it doesn't bother me so much. Colder nights i also wear long underwear so maybe quarter of warmth comes anyways from other sources than just sleeping bag or quilt. I think weight saving isn't much with quilt, since with it i need warmer sleeping pad. Although my quilt takes less than half of space compared to my bag. Both are useful in right circumstances, but if someone is going to buy just one always go for bag.
Solid advice! Thanks for chiming in!
It you want more space the Nemo Disco is designed for that. 15 degree works well for most occasions. I flip flop sides with no issues and im 6’2 / 215lbs. If you do one of those complicated Zenbivy “sleep systems” it weighs about the same so I don’t get the hype. I think the only reason to do a quilt is if you’re trying to fit it all in a Jansport book bag 😂. Glad to hear your review as I’ve always thought about the heat loss when moving around.
Great minds think alike! Interesting review on the Zenbivvy. I've heard a lot of great things but I prefer simple.
I was angry at first, but now after hearing this and reading a couple comments, I reluctantly concede that you may be right. I'm going to look into sleeping bags and quilts now to see what will work best for me.
😂 that’s great! Let me know if I can help in any way.
What do you currently use?
@@EmoryByLand I'm not a backpacker yet, as of right now I'm researching and buying gear to hike the AT next year. Though I've been watching stuff about the PCT and CDT for years so I may end up going for a triple crown eventually.
I'm thinking I may shell out the money for a Zpacks Classic Bag. As another commenter said, it's the best of both worlds for 3-season backpacking.
But I would still love to hear your recommendations for ultralight 10 or 20 degree bags under $450. Thanks!
Good luck out there!
I completely agree. I use a sleeping bag in a bivy, even in a tent. That allows me to retain body heat in the winter & gives me the option of sleeping on top of my bag with just the bivy fabric covering on hot nights. The bivy gives me the option of cowboy camping, keeping bugs at bay, when I don't want to set up the tent.
Thanks for sharing your setup!
The alpinists who go to the himalayas, say Mount Everest, would NEVER use a quilt ! There is a very good reason for that ! Thank you !
Agreed!
If youre getting a lot of drafts it means you're either not using the straps correctly at the right points along the quilt, or the quilt is too narrow. I've also seen people put the pad inside the quilt which is wrong as u will abrade the sides the quilt + over stretch the top, which makes it easier for cold air to leak in from the sides
👍🏼
I think that in temperatures up to + 50 degrees, the decision should definitely be a quilt. In this range are usually not cold problems. I see particular advantages at these temperatures also in conjunction with a hammock.
Agreed!